From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 07:35:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 08:35:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <7274EFBBD39B45EF8BCD9CF855DDC414@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D6CF626.2050406@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. Anyone binding 7 million records to a form using any data store needs to be in a different business. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 4:13 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > A few small tables and limited number of users it's fine. > > Try over 50 concurrent operators inserting/updating records in tables with up to 7 million > rows with multiple large lookup tables on that data. At the same time have a number of > others users pulling summaries of that data. Not fine. :-) > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 07:42:24 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 08:42:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> My advice for small databases is to simply upsize your big mac and be done with it. Oh... that's my McDonalds order. Upsize your tables to SQL Server and be done with it. Easier said than done in some cases, quite trivial in others. My point really is that for *small* databases (back ends), simple ODBC links to the data sitting in SQL Server will get you there instantly. Then you can play around with more esoteric things like binding the forms and combos to pass through queries and the like - assuming > A2K of course. The bigger problem I found was understanding enough about SQL Server security to make the process painless. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 1:09 PM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > Thank you all again, I am quickly learning many things from your responses. > I am just an old fart trying to play catch up with you guys (Oops and gals). > I am trying to learn how to do things with a SQL Server back end, by trying to duplicate what I can > do with an old MDB back end application. I am finding at times when doing my research on the > Internet that I will read "Do it this way" and then next read "No don't do it that way do it this > way". Also when I complete one task I think "Now how can I do this slighty different", this becomes > quite frustrating, after 2 to 3 hours of reading other forum responses and basically finding no > "hits", I will find some esoteric little example, usually not on topic, that finally simply > describes how to do what I was looking for. > Anyway this is my problem to solve, thank you again for your all your help. Onward and upward. This > is a scary path. > From df.waters at comcast.net Tue Mar 1 07:50:42 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 07:50:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OutputTo Bug in Library in Access 2007 Message-ID: <001201cbd817$a87ec9c0$f97c5d40$@comcast.net> A couple of weeks ago someone posted a problem with DoCmd.OutputTo, and a few days ago I came across a related bug introduced in Access 2007. I don't have Access 2010 - perhaps someone can see if the problem still exists there. If you have a procedure in a referenced Library file that outputs an object, where the object is stored in the Main file, you'll get an error. This worked fine in Access 2003, but fails in Access 2007. The help files in both versions say that Access looks in the Library first, then in the Main file. This is a workaround that I've tested. As an example, this procedure can be called by either the Library or the Main files, and determines which file the object is in. If the object is in the Main file, then the procedure uses CurrentProject.Application.DoCmd.OutputTo, which bypasses the bug. HTH! Dan '-------------------------------------- Public Sub LibraryOutput(intObjectType As Integer, stgObjectName As String, varOutputFormat As Variant, stgAccessObjectPath As String) '-- Purpose: This will take an Access Object for output from a referenced Library file. _ If the object is in the CurrentProject, then DoCmd.OutputTo won't see that object _ due to a bug introduced in Access 2007. _ However, using CurrentProject.Application.DoCmd.OutputTo in the library will work. Dim aob As AccessObject Dim blnReportInLibrary As Boolean '-- Is this report in the Library? For Each aob In CodeProject.AllReports If aob.Name = stgObjectName Then blnReportInLibrary = True End If Next aob '-- Output report from the file it's in If blnReportInLibrary = True Then DoCmd.OutputTo intObjectType, stgObjectName, varOutputFormat, stgAccessObjectPath Else CurrentProject.Application.DoCmd.OutputTo intObjectType, stgObjectName, varOutputFormat, stgAccessObjectPath End If End Sub '-------------------------------------- From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 09:47:30 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 10:47:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <89146180C53B4BBD9354BF816DB6D5B3@XPS> Not sure if I posted this in the past, but there are some great tid-bits in here on the use of an SQL backend: http://www.jstreettech.com/cartgenie/pg_developerDownloads.asp Download "The best of both worlds..." Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 08:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My advice for small databases is to simply upsize your big mac and be done with it. Oh... that's my McDonalds order. Upsize your tables to SQL Server and be done with it. Easier said than done in some cases, quite trivial in others. My point really is that for *small* databases (back ends), simple ODBC links to the data sitting in SQL Server will get you there instantly. Then you can play around with more esoteric things like binding the forms and combos to pass through queries and the like - assuming > A2K of course. The bigger problem I found was understanding enough about SQL Server security to make the process painless. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 1:09 PM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > Thank you all again, I am quickly learning many things from your responses. > I am just an old fart trying to play catch up with you guys (Oops and gals). > I am trying to learn how to do things with a SQL Server back end, by trying to duplicate what I can > do with an old MDB back end application. I am finding at times when doing my research on the > Internet that I will read "Do it this way" and then next read "No don't do it that way do it this > way". Also when I complete one task I think "Now how can I do this slighty different", this becomes > quite frustrating, after 2 to 3 hours of reading other forum responses and basically finding no > "hits", I will find some esoteric little example, usually not on topic, that finally simply > describes how to do what I was looking for. > Anyway this is my problem to solve, thank you again for your all your help. Onward and upward. This > is a scary path. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 10:41:40 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 08:41:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <004501cbd6c7$6dd32060$49796120$@comcast.net> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE00E@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> <4D6AD2FE.8187.124E85B2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7274EFBBD39B45EF8BCD9CF855DDC414@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Cringe away, it seems to work just fine. Until I see evidence to the contrary... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 10:56 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Years ago I dropped a table in error, on a live MS SQL DB...had about 50 > users on at the time. Added the table and re-populated in about 5 minutes > and only 1 person complained about the BE being slower and having to do a > refresh. Real SQL DBs are very rugged...everything is just queued, cached > and applied through background processes. > > The one thing is that a Real SQL DB is not just another MDB...there is > little or no resemblance other than the both hold data. (Not wanting to get > into a heated discussion, I must admit I cringe every time I hear of someone > attempting a bound MS SQL DB.) > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Both? > > When did you ever have to kick users out of Access or any other multi-user > DBMS to make > data changes? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 10:49:32 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 08:49:32 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <7274EFBBD39B45EF8BCD9CF855DDC414@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: If John makes his new applications work stability, I will truly be delighted. If they do not, I promise to try to resist the temtation to say "I told you so". ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server A few small tables and limited number of users it's fine. Try over 50 concurrent operators inserting/updating records in tables with up to 7 million rows with multiple large lookup tables on that data. At the same time have a number of others users pulling summaries of that data. Not fine. :-) -- Stuart On 28 Feb 2011 at 12:01, jwcolby wrote: > Cringe away, it seems to work just fine. Until I see evidence to the > contrary... > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 2/28/2011 10:56 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Years ago I dropped a table in error, on a live MS SQL DB...had > > about 50 users on at the time. Added the table and re-populated in > > about 5 minutes and only 1 person complained about the BE being > > slower and having to do a refresh. Real SQL DBs are very > > rugged...everything is just queued, cached and applied through > > background processes. > > > > The one thing is that a Real SQL DB is not just another MDB...there > > is little or no resemblance other than the both hold data. (Not > > wanting to get into a heated discussion, I must admit I cringe every > > time I hear of someone attempting a bound MS SQL DB.) > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > > Access and SQL Server > > > > Both? > > > > When did you ever have to kick users out of Access or any other > > multi-user DBMS to make data changes? > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 10:54:52 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 08:54:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <201102282241.p1SMfaRg026442@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <201102282241.p1SMfaRg026442@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: So what is your opinion about using asynchronous or synchronous connection to a MS SQL BE from an Access FE? You would definitely be the man and could put this whole controversy to rest. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ "Are any of your developing full blown ACCESS/SQL Server applications for clients? If so what type of an app is it?" When I was at Coles Group a year or so back I was part of a team of developers that built and maintained a whole suite of custom applications that were built on a common template. All the apps were based on a template which in turn was based on a SQL Server BE with MS Access FE (mde of course). We were starting to move any new apps to a web UI and away from MS Access. Many of these apps were critical for the day to day running of large national retail businesses. To give you some idea Coles Group is one of Australia's largest retailers with more than 2,600 stores throughout Australia and New Zealand, over 400,000 shareholders and more than 190,000 employees. My good friend Beny build a complex logistics app, which was used for scheduling all store deliveries based on availablity and type of truck (Some trucks can only fit in certain bays for example, some truck have to be in the cold store etc). Damn clever with a great UI. Some of these apps had hundreds of concurrent users 24/7, although many also lead a far less demanding life. The financial control system I build had about 50 users over a WAN. It was fast, stable and accurate. Gotta love that :) The big advantage was even though each application was build for a totally different purpose, it had a common platform and build, which meant that any of the development team could work on it if the main developer was away or busy. I miss working with SQL Server. Current role is 100% access based. Feel a bit left behind to be honest... :-/ cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Monday, 28 February 2011 11:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hey All Thanks I have got to try out Stuart suggestion for updating stored procedures in SQL Server using ACCESS. I am not finding any significant differences in speed when using ACCESS tables and queries versus SQL Server tables and pass through queries, I assume that is because I am doing my testing on my local machine and not on a network (or Web). Are any of your developing full blown ACCESS/SQL Server applications for clients? If so what type of an app is it? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 11:17:24 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 09:17:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the problem with the invoice. It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple invoice details. The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a classic case of why you should not use a natural key as your PK. What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer an accurate short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the description (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" turned on.) -- Stuart On 28 Feb 2011 at 17:36, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > <> > > Occasionally on a lookup table if a client insists on having a short > code > along with a description. Then I do this: > > LookupCode - Text - PK > Description - Text > > as I don't see any sense in doing this: > > LookupID - Autonumber - PK > Code - Text - CK > Description - Text > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 11:47:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 12:47:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 11:55:40 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 12:55:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: NOW THIS IS COOL !!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D6D331C.9050107@colbyconsulting.com> John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Stephen Joy wrote: > > *THIS IS INTERESTING.......... PLEASE FORWARD TO YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES... * > *Click on the year you were born and read the news for that year. > ** > _1900_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1900.html ) > _1901_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1901.html ) > _1902_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1902.html ) > _1903_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1903.html ) > _1904_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1904.html ) > _1905_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1905.html ) > _1906_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1906.html ) _* > *1907_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1907.html > _1908_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1908.html ) > _1909_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1909.html ) > _1910_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1910.html) > _1911_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1911.html ) > _1912_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1912.html ) > _1913_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1913.html ) > _1914_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1914.html ) > _1915_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1915.html ) > _1916_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1916.html ) > _1917_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1917.html ) > _1918_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1918.html ) > _1919_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1919.html ) > _1920_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1920.html ) > _1921_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1921.html ) > _1922_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1922.html ) > _1923_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1923.html ) > _1924_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1924.html ) > _1925_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1925.html ) > _1926_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1926.html ) > _1927_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1927.html ) > _1928_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1928.html ) > _1929_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1929.html ) > _1930_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1930.html ) > _1931_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1931.html ) > _1932_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1932.html ) > _1933_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1933.html ) > _1934_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1934.html ) > _1935_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1935.html ) > _1936_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1936.html ) > _1937_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1937.html ) > _1938_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1938.html ) > _1939_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1939.html ) > _1940_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1940.html ) > _1941_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1941.html ) > _1942_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1942.html ) > _1943_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1943.html ) > _1944_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1944.html ) > _1945_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1945.html ) > _1946_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1946.html ) > _1947_ ( http://www..infoplease.com/year/1947.html ) > _1948_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1948.html ) > _1949_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1949.html ) > _1950_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1950.html ) > _1951_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1951.html ) > _1952_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1952.html ) > _1953_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1953.html ) > _1954_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1954.html ) > _1955_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1955.html ) > _1956_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1956.html ) > _1957_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1957.html ) > _1958_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1958.html ) > _1959_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1959.html ) > _1960_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1960.html ) > _1961_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1961.html ) > _1962_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1962.html ) > _1963_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1963.html ) > _1964_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1964.html ) > _1965_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1965.html ) > _1966_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1966.html ) > _1967_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1967....html ) > _1968_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1968.html ) > _1969_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1969.html ) > _1970_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1970.html ) > _1971_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1971.html ) > _1972_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1972.html ) > _1973_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1973.html ) > _1974_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1974.html ) > _1975_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1975.html ) > _1976_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1976.html ) > _1977_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1977.html ) > _1978_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1978.html ) > _1979_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1979.html ) > _1980_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1980.html ) > _1981_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1981.html ) > _1982_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1982.html ) > _1983_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1983.html ) > _1984_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1984.html ) > _1985_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1985.html ) ; > _1986_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1986.html ) > _1987_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1987.html ) > _1988_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1988.html ) > _1989_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1989.html ) > _1990_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1990. html ) > _1991_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1991.html ) > _1992_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1992.html ) > _1993_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1993.html ) > _1994_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1994.html ) > _1995_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1995.html ) > _1996_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1996.html ) > _1997_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1997.html ) > _1998_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1998.html ) > _1999_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1999.html ) > _2000_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2000.html ) > _2001_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2001.html ) > _2002_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2002.html ) > _2003_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2003.html ) > _2004_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2004.html ) > _2005_ (http://www.infoplease.com/year/2005.html ) > _2006_ (http://www.infoplease.com/year/2006..html ;* > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > * From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 12:08:05 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 10:08:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I do too. On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:47 AM, jwcolby wrote: > When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an > autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need > an autonumber pk! > > I then proceed to create the fields. > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 12:37:23 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 13:37:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <0DF5844BACEB481BA6609F13FFECD526@XPS> <> That's really not true. A proper design, natural key or not would have solved the issue. <> Neither do I, but that's simply for performance reasons. However it does mean that I need to maintain one additional index in a lot of cases. JimD. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the problem with the invoice. It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple invoice details. The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a classic case of why you should not use a natural key as your PK. What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer an accurate short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the description (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" turned on.) -- Stuart On 28 Feb 2011 at 17:36, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > <> > > Occasionally on a lookup table if a client insists on having a short > code > along with a description. Then I do this: > > LookupCode - Text - PK > Description - Text > > as I don't see any sense in doing this: > > LookupID - Autonumber - PK > Code - Text - CK > Description - Text > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 12:40:26 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 13:40:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue Mar 1 12:50:06 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 13:50:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 13:12:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 14:12:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than one would think. If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > So on a many to many linking table you would do this: > > tblBooksAndAuthors > LinkID - Autonumber - PK > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B > > And not simply: > > tblBooksAndAuthors > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B > > and eliminate an index? If so, why not? > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an > autoincrement PK. I no > longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! > > I then proceed to create the fields. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the >> problem with the invoice. >> >> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By >> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from > multiple >> invoice details. >> >> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it >> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan >> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >> classic case of why >> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >> >> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no > longer >> an accurate >> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the >> tables which store it >> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >> description >> >> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" >> turned on.) >> >> From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 1 13:34:15 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 22:34:15 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: <0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 14:22:56 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 15:22:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: Lambert, It needs a unique index, which the Author/Book combination provides. Not sure why the original post got formatted that way, but it should have looked like this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B Which might be clearer. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 01:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 15:12:28 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 16:12:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Curriculum Developer Message-ID: <599FB9B49B8A40A29D6D4108223FD487@SusanHarkins> I've got a reader trying to convert XCH formatted files (something called Curriculum Developer) to Access. Only built-in options saves partial data to text, but not all the data. Anyone familiar with this product or format? Susan H. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 15:30:25 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 07:30:25 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6D6571.14018.1C5A9937@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I agree. On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:42, jwcolby wrote: > > Upsize your tables to SQL Server and be done with it. Easier said > than done in some cases, quite trivial in others. > > My point really is that for *small* databases (back ends), simple ODBC > links to the data sitting in SQL Server will get you there instantly. > Then you can play around with more esoteric things like binding the > forms and combos to pass through queries and the like - assuming > A2K > of course. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 15:46:13 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 07:46:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com>, Message-ID: <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous operations. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 16:55:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 14:55:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <218527AECE044853B16161144994FADB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Good plan John. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 9:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 17:01:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 15:01:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Stuart: I must have missed your point but it is a great article. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous operations. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 17:09:40 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:09:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> My point was that I disagree with the statement "Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous". SQL Server function primarily using synchronous connections - whan you request a recordset, you wait for it to be returned. -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:01, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > I must have missed your point but it is a great article. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:46 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. > > MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous > operations. > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx > > > Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform > for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including > an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database > makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that > were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > -- > Stuart > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 17:26:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 15:26:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My point was that I disagree with the statement "Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous". SQL Server function primarily using synchronous connections - whan you request a recordset, you wait for it to be returned. -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:01, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > I must have missed your point but it is a great article. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:46 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. > > MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous > operations. > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx > > > Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform > for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including > an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database > makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that > were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > -- > Stuart > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 1 17:49:41 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:49:41 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <201103012349.p21NnoGD001965@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Ditto. I don't even ask if it is what the client wants. I know they will need it one day. Had a classic case of this sort of thing where I work. Been banging on at some folks here since November that their "It is our source of truth and there is nothing wrong with it" XL Spreadsheet is going to cause them (severe) grief sometime soon as their role expands. 5 months later they have decided that perhaps they do need to talk to me after all... aaaah, the sound of little light bulbs going "ping!". Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2011 4:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 17:55:12 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:55:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> See inline. On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data > is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any > difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request > is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then > retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the > data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it also works asynchronously: >From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a95265/wfapi11.htm A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous process is a process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. -- Stuart > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 18:21:04 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 19:21:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Message-ID: Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 18:29:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:29:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Win7Sp1 and ADO In-Reply-To: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D6D8F84.26700.1CFEF5CB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It seems that if you are using ADO and compile under Win7 SP1, your application may no longer work on previous Winodws versions :-( http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en- US/windowsgeneraldevelopmentissues/thread/3a4ce946-effa-4f77-98a6-34f11c6b5a13 -- Stuart From delam at zyterra.com Tue Mar 1 20:17:54 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie Elam) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 20:17:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use them for the following reasons: 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short code based on the name has changed (sigh). 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the relationship is crap without cascade updates. 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. Debbie On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I > need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than > one would think. > > If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >> create an >> autoincrement PK. I no >> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! >> >> I then proceed to create the fields. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>> discovered the >>> problem with the invoice. >>> >>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>> tables. By >>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >> multiple >>> invoice details. >>> >>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>> but it >>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>> temptation. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >>> classic case of why >>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>> >>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no >> longer >>> an accurate >>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>> all the >>> tables which store it >>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >>> description >>> >>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>> Update" >>> turned on.) >>> >>> From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 02:13:13 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:13:13 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com><9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 02:18:01 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:18:01 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart -- <<< That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. >>> But waiting "for the remote server to respond" in the case of AJAX doesn't mean stopping/blocking browser - such a waiting mean asynchronous "listening" for MS SQL to process (a set of) SQL requests, and when any one of the latter is ready asynchronously process its result (set). Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 2:55 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server See inline. On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data > is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any > difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request > is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then > retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the > data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it also works asynchronously: >From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 65/wfapi11.htm A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous process is a process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. -- Stuart > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > > > > > -- From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 03:35:05 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 19:35:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4D6E0F49.5585.1EF20FAB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> True, I missed the sneaky conflation of the terms "web based" and AJAX :-) -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:18, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Stuart -- > > <<< > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. >>> But > waiting "for the remote server to respond" in the case of AJAX doesn't > mean stopping/blocking browser - such a waiting mean asynchronous > "listening" for MS SQL to process (a set of) SQL requests, and when > any one of the latter is ready asynchronously process its result > (set). > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 2:55 To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > See inline. > On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the > > data is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > > > > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > > > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is > > any difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data > > request is queued, when the system has time it checks the request > > and then retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site > > indicating that the data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the > > data is transferred. > > > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > > > > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle > works, it also works asynchronously: > > > From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default > in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: > > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.90 > 2/a952 65/wfapi11.htm > > > A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A > synchronous process is a process that can be executed without > interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a > process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be > completed immediately, such as function activities that are not > deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return > control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until > it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can > immediately check for process results that were written to item > attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait > for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process > that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it > contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities > that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, > notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait > activities. > > -- > Stuart > > > > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you > > > > can work around its philosophy of design does not mean you > > > > should. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 03:35:34 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 19:35:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , Message-ID: <4D6E0F66.1395.1EF28335@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Jim's already stipulated that it's a many to many table. It alreay allows for multiple authors. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:13, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: ... > > Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one > author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several > authors for a book is a "simple change request"... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > ... >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to ?> tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to >> tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 04:19:34 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 13:19:34 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E0F66.1395.1EF28335@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , <4D6E0F66.1395.1EF28335@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <2494A646D19E498F860D33961D0B01AC@nant> Hi Stuart -- <<< Jim's already stipulated that it's a many to many table. It already allows for multiple authors. >>> Sorry, I have missed that. But anyway it doesn't make inapplicable my comment on using [LinkID] and "consistent data design", does it? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 12:36 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim's already stipulated that it's a many to many table. It alreay allows for multiple authors. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:13, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: ... > > Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one > author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several > authors for a book is a "simple change request"... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > ... >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to ?> tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to >> tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 06:48:42 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 07:48:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> Message-ID: <666D2EE834D24ED5ACCBE7BB396AF6B1@SusanHarkins> Yelp, yelp, and yelp! Hi Deb!!! Susan H. > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 07:04:14 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:04:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> Message-ID: <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Debbie, I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it as such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being entered more then once? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use them for the following reasons: 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short code based on the name has changed (sigh). 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the relationship is crap without cascade updates. 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. Debbie On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I > need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than > one would think. > > If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >> create an >> autoincrement PK. I no >> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! >> >> I then proceed to create the fields. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>> discovered the >>> problem with the invoice. >>> >>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>> tables. By >>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >> multiple >>> invoice details. >>> >>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>> but it >>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>> temptation. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >>> classic case of why >>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>> >>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no >> longer >>> an accurate >>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>> all the >>> tables which store it >>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >>> description >>> >>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>> Update" >>> turned on.) >>> >>> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 07:04:14 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:04:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com><9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Message-ID: <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 2 07:07:46 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 05:07:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Stuart: A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) with the BE data server. Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and if the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded some thing better.) When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to have dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of users. Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, bound connection. When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, under load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to respond and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of connection. A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection as the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that tight binding. So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get in to. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server See inline. On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data > is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any > difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request > is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then > retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the > data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it also works asynchronously: >From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 65/wfapi11.htm A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous process is a process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. -- Stuart From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Wed Mar 2 07:40:14 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 05:40:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have to do some rethinking here? From delam at zyterra.com Wed Mar 2 08:33:22 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:33:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Message-ID: Additional indexes are another matter entirely. They are appropriate and needed. Relationships with other tables should be immutable and not subject to data entry. Don't confuse the two. Debbie Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2011, at 7:04 AM, "Jim Dettman" wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about > it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent > from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports > out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why > natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that > used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it > happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I >> need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than >> one would think. >> >> If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >>> >>> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >>> >>> And not simply: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >>> >>> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >>> create an >>> autoincrement PK. I no >>> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber >>> pk! >>> >>> I then proceed to create the fields. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients >>>> were >>>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>>> discovered the >>>> problem with the invoice. >>>> >>>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by >>>> grouping >>>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>>> tables. By >>>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash >>>> matched >>>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >>> multiple >>>> invoice details. >>>> >>>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>>> but it >>>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have >>>> never >>>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>>> temptation. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>>> >>>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. >>>> This is a >>>> classic case of why >>>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>>> >>>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code >>>> is no >>> longer >>>> an accurate >>>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>>> all the >>>> tables which store it >>>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't >>>> match the >>>> description >>>> >>>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>>> Update" >>>> turned on.) >>>> >>>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 08:39:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:39:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being entered more then once? ohhhh don't go there!!! PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I >> need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than >> one would think. >> >> If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >>> >>> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >>> >>> And not simply: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >>> >>> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >>> create an >>> autoincrement PK. I no >>> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! >>> >>> I then proceed to create the fields. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >>>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>>> discovered the >>>> problem with the invoice. >>>> >>>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >>>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>>> tables. By >>>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >>>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >>> multiple >>>> invoice details. >>>> >>>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>>> but it >>>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >>>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>>> temptation. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>>> >>>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >>>> classic case of why >>>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>>> >>>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no >>> longer >>>> an accurate >>>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>>> all the >>>> tables which store it >>>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >>>> description >>>> >>>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>>> Update" >>>> turned on.) >>>> >>>> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 09:09:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:09:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D6E5DC1.5010005@colbyconsulting.com> >The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Me too, very powerful. >Do I have to do some rethinking here? Maybe but probably not. Generally speaking, you do not want to be displaying hundreds or thousands of records in any form. Generally speaking subforms by their nature limit the number of records, only returning children of the parent record. That said, they could still return thousands of ... checks for an account, or accounts for a bank, or... you get the picture. You need to stay aware of that issue and try to prevent pulling (as an example) 10,000 checks into a subform on an account form. You need to do this for any data store but it *may* be more of an issue for an ODBC linked table to a SQL Server. The problem here is we don't really know how JET handles things behind the scene. It is constantly watching as you edit records for example. Does (and can) it instantly go set a lock on an edited record in an ODBC linked table to a SQL Server? Or does it lock the record at the instant it tries to write back, and then look for changes to fields edited on this form? I think those of us interested in this issue need to experiment and discover what JET actually does. We can do that by opening the same FE twice, opening the same bound form to the same record, and then editing the record in one instance and watching the second instance. JET is a sophisticated little widget and it is still in charge of the application even if we are linked via ODBC to a SQL Server table / view. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:40 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and ADO connections all working. > One question is why would you link to SQL Server tables in Access when you can do everything with > ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do you just simply > link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say to keep the data simplified on a main form and > then allow the user to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is I like > subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have to do some rethinking here? From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 09:13:05 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 18:13:05 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com><9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> Message-ID: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 09:17:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:17:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has a pool of 100 connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out how). Someone on the internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you > could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) > with the BE data server. > > Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were > problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and if > the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to > corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years > ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded some > thing better.) > > When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to have > dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as > thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of > users. > > Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits > (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the > connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the > request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the > remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is > given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately > terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. > > In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the > background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, > bound connection. > > When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a > dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, under > load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to respond > and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of connection. > A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection as > the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that > tight binding. > > So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get > in to. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > See inline. > On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >> > > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request > and wait for a > reply before doing anything else. > >> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >> >> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >> > > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it > also works > asynchronously: > > >> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in > Oracle to. Note the > use of the word forced in the last sentence.: > > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 > 65/wfapi11.htm > > > A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous > process is a > process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The > Workflow Engine > executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that > can be > completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to > the background > engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling > application that initiated > the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you > can > immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes > or directly to the > database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. > ... > An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot > complete > immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples > of > activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, > notifications > with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. > > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Wed Mar 2 09:33:04 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 07:33:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E5DC1.5010005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6E5DC1.5010005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6E6330.5080601@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John So to use a subform I would need to link the SQL Server table on a bound form? Tabs I may be able to refresh the recordset as the user changes tabs (I think I read that somewhere for Tabs). jwcolby wrote: > >The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. > > Me too, very powerful. > > >Do I have to do some rethinking here? > > Maybe but probably not. Generally speaking, you do not want to be > displaying hundreds or thousands of records in any form. Generally > speaking subforms by their nature limit the number of records, only > returning children of the parent record. > > That said, they could still return thousands of ... checks for an > account, or accounts for a bank, or... you get the picture. > > You need to stay aware of that issue and try to prevent pulling (as an > example) 10,000 checks into a subform on an account form. You need to > do this for any data store but it *may* be more of an issue for an > ODBC linked table to a SQL Server. > > The problem here is we don't really know how JET handles things behind > the scene. It is constantly watching as you edit records for > example. Does (and can) it instantly go set a lock on an edited > record in an ODBC linked table to a SQL Server? Or does it lock the > record at the instant it tries to write back, and then look for > changes to fields edited on this form? > > I think those of us interested in this issue need to experiment and > discover what JET actually does. We can do that by opening the same > FE twice, opening the same bound form to the same record, and then > editing the record in one instance and watching the second instance. > > JET is a sophisticated little widget and it is still in charge of the > application even if we are linked via ODBC to a SQL Server table / view. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:40 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > >> Hey All >> I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and >> ADO connections all working. >> One question is why would you link to SQL Server tables in Access >> when you can do everything with >> ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms >> and tabs, do you just simply >> link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say to keep the data >> simplified on a main form and >> then allow the user to pick a record and then display a more detailed >> form. The thing is I like >> subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have to do >> some rethinking here? > From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 2 09:57:29 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:57:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> Message-ID: <003e01cbd8f2$8cf765a0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Go for it. . . . It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. A great debate about consistent vs inconsistent might be more profitable than discussing the person in the street reacting to the Banksters losing all the world's money. It seems only a few nations are immune to such. Well I better get back to work straightening out my once 'consistent' project. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade > Update" turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 2 10:02:30 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:02:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: You are definitely going into new territory, to my experience on this one. Having a bound system, connecting over the internet, I would suspect would drain resources from your BE server, (20+ dedicated connections per remote station? One for every bound table?) And then there is that flaky internet in between. Me thinks there is a good reason for not exceeding the default 100 connection...Have you calculated how much resources like bandwidth, CPU and Memory each connection requires? Fifteen years ago I tried to get a similar system working and failed but the internal design of Access may have improved dramatically since then. As I said before, hats off if you get it working. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has a pool of 100 connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out how). Someone on the internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you > could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) > with the BE data server. > > Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were > problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and if > the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to > corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years > ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded some > thing better.) > > When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to have > dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as > thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of > users. > > Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits > (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the > connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the > request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the > remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is > given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately > terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. > > In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the > background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, > bound connection. > > When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a > dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, under > load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to respond > and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of connection. > A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection as > the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that > tight binding. > > So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get > in to. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > See inline. > On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >> > > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request > and wait for a > reply before doing anything else. > >> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >> >> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >> > > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it > also works > asynchronously: > > >> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in > Oracle to. Note the > use of the word forced in the last sentence.: > > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 > 65/wfapi11.htm > > > A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous > process is a > process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The > Workflow Engine > executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that > can be > completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to > the background > engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling > application that initiated > the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you > can > immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes > or directly to the > database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. > ... > An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot > complete > immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples > of > activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, > notifications > with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 10:22:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:22:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> John, <> Ah why not? ;) <> I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a relation by it's very definition would form a unique index. << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being entered more then once? ohhhh don't go there!!! PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: <> From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 10:40:48 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:40:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Message-ID: Debbie, <> There are two contexts to a database design; a logical one and a physical one. Your working with the physical one, I'm talking about the logical one. <> They would not be if you used natural keys in a db design. Don't get me wrong; I'm not advocating that. But if we had systems capable of handling natural key designs performance wise, then additional indexes would not be required. Additional indexes are only required because we take the shortcut of using auto numbers as keys rather then using a natural key to model the data physically. Interesting footnote: Access when first released was often touted as being truest to relational theory because it had the feature of cascading updates and deletes. <> That's true whether you used auto number or natural keys. However if you did use natural keys in a database design, then data entry could very well change data that the key is based on, but it would still not change the relationships between relations. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Additional indexes are another matter entirely. They are appropriate and needed. Relationships with other tables should be immutable and not subject to data entry. Don't confuse the two. Debbie Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2011, at 7:04 AM, "Jim Dettman" wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about > it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent > from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports > out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why > natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that > used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it > happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I >> need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than >> one would think. >> >> If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >>> >>> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >>> >>> And not simply: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >>> >>> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >>> create an >>> autoincrement PK. I no >>> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber >>> pk! >>> >>> I then proceed to create the fields. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients >>>> were >>>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>>> discovered the >>>> problem with the invoice. >>>> >>>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by >>>> grouping >>>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>>> tables. By >>>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash >>>> matched >>>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >>> multiple >>>> invoice details. >>>> >>>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>>> but it >>>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have >>>> never >>>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>>> temptation. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>>> >>>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. >>>> This is a >>>> classic case of why >>>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>>> >>>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code >>>> is no >>> longer >>>> an accurate >>>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>>> all the >>>> tables which store it >>>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't >>>> match the >>>> description >>>> >>>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>>> Update" >>>> turned on.) >>>> >>>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 11:00:22 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 20:00:22 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <003e01cbd8f2$8cf765a0$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> <003e01cbd8f2$8cf765a0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <8B418CB4E9A84AACAC986BCAA7539C8A@nant> Hi Edward, Thank you for your note. <<< It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. >>> Refactoring is used to keep a project consistent/get a project back into a consistent state. See also "Technical Debt" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt) related books, articles, discussions... and how to handle that "technical debt" to keep one's project consistent... In my experience approx. 20% of a project time is needed to keep it consistent. That "additional" efforts do pay back a lot in long run. And if one will keep a "technical debt" growing they will get "technically bankrupt" sooner or later. One (a seasoned developer) should probably better not inform their customers when and how they keep their project "technical debt" work performed but for a "good" customer with long lasting relations such a "secret" should be opened... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 18:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Go for it. . . . It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. A great debate about consistent vs inconsistent might be more profitable than discussing the person in the street reacting to the Banksters losing all the world's money. It seems only a few nations are immune to such. Well I better get back to work straightening out my once 'consistent' project. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade > Update" turned on.) > > From patrinod at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 11:47:14 2011 From: patrinod at gmail.com (Den Patrino) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 12:47:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings Message-ID: Members ... It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. Are there pros and cons to one or the other. TIA Patty From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 2 11:48:58 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:48:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <8B418CB4E9A84AACAC986BCAA7539C8A@nant> Message-ID: <000601cbd902$1cb2e840$5bdea8c0@edz1> My pleasure. . . Have to run, and get back to my can of worms. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 10:00 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Edward, Thank you for your note. <<< It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. >>> Refactoring is used to keep a project consistent/get a project back into a consistent state. See also "Technical Debt" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt) related books, articles, discussions... and how to handle that "technical debt" to keep one's project consistent... In my experience approx. 20% of a project time is needed to keep it consistent. That "additional" efforts do pay back a lot in long run. And if one will keep a "technical debt" growing they will get "technically bankrupt" sooner or later. One (a seasoned developer) should probably better not inform their customers when and how they keep their project "technical debt" work performed but for a "good" customer with long lasting relations such a "secret" should be opened... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 18:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Go for it. . . . It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. A great debate about consistent vs inconsistent might be more profitable than discussing the person in the street reacting to the Banksters losing all the world's money. It seems only a few nations are immune to such. Well I better get back to work straightening out my once 'consistent' project. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade > Update" turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 2 12:55:56 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:55:56 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Patty: I am not sure this will answer you question but find a link to three different sites giving sample connection strings for various versions of MS SQL and some with explanations. (The list is half way down the page.) http://www.databaseadvisors.com/reference/referencemisc.asp HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Den Patrino Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:47 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings Members ... It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. Are there pros and cons to one or the other. TIA Patty -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 13:28:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 14:28:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6E9A78.2020809@colbyconsulting.com> My connection leak is actually happening with a complex C# system I am designing. My guess is that Access would use a single connection for all linked tables. There is no reason to have more than one for all of the tables. As I said, this is all new to me. I will be doing some tests soon to look at the locking issues. I am using the 2007 run time so I have whatever advantage might be available in terms of the latest stuff. In fact a client has offered a copy of Access 2010 which I will probably take her up on. At that point my runtimes will be using 2010 whatever that might mean. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:02 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > You are definitely going into new territory, to my experience on this one. > Having a bound system, connecting over the internet, I would suspect would > drain resources from your BE server, (20+ dedicated connections per remote > station? One for every bound table?) And then there is that flaky internet > in between. > > Me thinks there is a good reason for not exceeding the default 100 > connection...Have you calculated how much resources like bandwidth, CPU and > Memory each connection requires? > > Fifteen years ago I tried to get a similar system working and failed but the > internal design of Access may have improved dramatically since then. As I > said before, hats off if you get it working. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 7:17 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has > a pool of 100 > connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out > how). Someone on the > internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Stuart: >> >> A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you >> could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) >> with the BE data server. >> >> Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were >> problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and > if >> the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to >> corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years >> ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded > some >> thing better.) >> >> When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to > have >> dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as >> thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of >> users. >> >> Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits >> (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the >> connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the >> request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the >> remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is >> given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately >> terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. >> >> In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the >> background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, >> bound connection. >> >> When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a >> dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, > under >> load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to > respond >> and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of > connection. >> A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection > as >> the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that >> tight binding. >> >> So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get >> in to. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> See inline. >> On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> >>> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >>> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >>> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >>> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >>> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >>> >> >> That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request >> and wait for a >> reply before doing anything else. >> >>> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >>> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >>> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >>> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >>> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >>> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >>> >>> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >>> >> >> No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, > it >> also works >> asynchronously: >> >> >>> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in >> Oracle to. Note the >> use of the word forced in the last sentence.: >> >> > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 >> 65/wfapi11.htm >> >> >> A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A > synchronous >> process is a >> process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. > The >> Workflow Engine >> executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that >> can be >> completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred > to >> the background >> engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling >> application that initiated >> the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, > you >> can >> immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes >> or directly to the >> database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. >> ... >> An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot >> complete >> immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. > Examples >> of >> activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, >> notifications >> with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. >> >> From rlister at actuarial-files.com Wed Mar 2 13:39:17 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 15:39:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database window Message-ID: <000001cbd911$87647410$962d5c30$@com> Hello to all of you, How do I hide the database window using code? TIA and Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 13:40:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 14:40:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. What? It certainly can. >As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. Yes they are just pointers or tags. My point is that in SQL Server you create a field with an integer. As a separate step you set it to be an auto-increment. As another separate step you set it to be the PK - SQL Server labels it as the PK of the table. As a result of making the field a PK sql server automatically creates a unique index, on that one field. At that point you have a long auto-increment that is a PK. At that point it has all of the attributes required to be and is in fact a surrogate key. It is indexed unique, it is defined by SQL Server as the PK and it's value is automatically created by the system with no input from the user. It is a surrogate and it performs as one. I use them all the time. All of which has nothing whatsoever to do with preventing duplicate records. The PK surrogate key has a unique index, however it does not prevent duplicates *records*, it just prevents duplicate primary key values. Two separate issues. > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. No, a surrogate PK is a pointer. You can in fact have auto-numbers that are not used as the surrogate PK. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:22 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > <> > > Ah why not? ;) > > <> > > I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a relation > by it's very definition would form a unique index. > > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> > > Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the > function of one. > > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or > tags. > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being > entered more then once? > > ohhhh don't go there!!! > > PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does > not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. > > That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> Debbie, >> >> I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it > as >> such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from >> being entered more then once? >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used >> (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use >> them for the following reasons: >> >> 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is >> supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of >> a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. >> They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short >> code based on the name has changed (sigh). >> 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a >> problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the >> relationship is crap without cascade updates. >> 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural >> keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used >> docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional >> countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, >> refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to >> work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head >> too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it >> probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. >> >> Debbie >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > <> > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 2 13:50:04 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 19:50:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E9A78.2020809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> , <4D6E9A78.2020809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB965FD@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> try this re connection count-just lifted of web SELECT DB_NAME(dbid) as DBName, COUNT(dbid) as NumberOfConnections, loginame as LoginName FROM sys.sysprocesses WHERE dbid > 0 GROUP BY dbid, loginame Martin WP Reid Information Services The McClay Library Queen's University of Belfast 10 College Park Belfast BT7 1LP Tel : 02890976174 Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sharepoint Training Portal ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby [jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 02 March 2011 19:28 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My connection leak is actually happening with a complex C# system I am designing. My guess is that Access would use a single connection for all linked tables. There is no reason to have more than one for all of the tables. As I said, this is all new to me. I will be doing some tests soon to look at the locking issues. I am using the 2007 run time so I have whatever advantage might be available in terms of the latest stuff. In fact a client has offered a copy of Access 2010 which I will probably take her up on. At that point my runtimes will be using 2010 whatever that might mean. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:02 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > You are definitely going into new territory, to my experience on this one. > Having a bound system, connecting over the internet, I would suspect would > drain resources from your BE server, (20+ dedicated connections per remote > station? One for every bound table?) And then there is that flaky internet > in between. > > Me thinks there is a good reason for not exceeding the default 100 > connection...Have you calculated how much resources like bandwidth, CPU and > Memory each connection requires? > > Fifteen years ago I tried to get a similar system working and failed but the > internal design of Access may have improved dramatically since then. As I > said before, hats off if you get it working. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 7:17 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has > a pool of 100 > connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out > how). Someone on the > internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Stuart: >> >> A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you >> could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) >> with the BE data server. >> >> Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were >> problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and > if >> the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to >> corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years >> ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded > some >> thing better.) >> >> When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to > have >> dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as >> thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of >> users. >> >> Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits >> (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the >> connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the >> request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the >> remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is >> given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately >> terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. >> >> In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the >> background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, >> bound connection. >> >> When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a >> dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, > under >> load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to > respond >> and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of > connection. >> A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection > as >> the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that >> tight binding. >> >> So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get >> in to. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> See inline. >> On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> >>> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >>> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >>> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >>> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >>> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >>> >> >> That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request >> and wait for a >> reply before doing anything else. >> >>> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >>> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >>> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >>> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >>> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >>> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >>> >>> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >>> >> >> No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, > it >> also works >> asynchronously: >> >> >>> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in >> Oracle to. Note the >> use of the word forced in the last sentence.: >> >> > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 >> 65/wfapi11.htm >> >> >> A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A > synchronous >> process is a >> process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. > The >> Workflow Engine >> executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that >> can be >> completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred > to >> the background >> engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling >> application that initiated >> the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, > you >> can >> immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes >> or directly to the >> database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. >> ... >> An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot >> complete >> immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. > Examples >> of >> activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, >> notifications >> with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. >> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:47:06 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:47:06 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> When does a "many to many linking table" cease to be a "simply a many to many linking table" How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product formula and have to store a quantity as well? What about if you subsequently need to store info such as the start date of the link relationship. Do you then add a PK? -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 8:04, Jim Dettman wrote: > table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other > fields would ever be added to it. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:53:17 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:53:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com>, <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6EAE3D.24667.215EF7F4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> D,RFC :-) -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > <> > > Ah why not? ;) > > <> > > I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a > relation > by it's very definition would form a unique index. > > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set > of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those > fields.>> > > Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a > surrogate > key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the > function of one. > > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers > or > tags. > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from > being > entered more then once? > > ohhhh don't go there!!! > > PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber > PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility > of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and > setting a unique index on those fields. > > That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Debbie, > > > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking > > about it > as > > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent > > from being entered more then once? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie > > Elam Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > > them for the following reasons: > > > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports > > out of a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 > > years. They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of > > a short code based on the name has changed (sigh). 2. Real Data is > > subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a problem > > happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the relationship > > is crap without cascade updates. 3. Real data is never as unique as > > you may think. This is why natural keys usually evolve into > > compound keys. Had a patent database that used docket numbers as a > > natural key. As they supported additional countries, they added > > country. As addendum were added to the patent, refines were added. > > Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to work with. To top > > it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head too. Rare > > occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it probably > > occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. > > > > Debbie > > > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > <> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:53:16 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:53:16 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility with Win7 SP1? :-) If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have a lot of extra work to do :-( On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and > ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL > Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in > Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do > you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say > to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user > to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is > I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have > to do some rethinking here? -- AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:59:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:59:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D6EAF9E.15472.21645AAC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I always use full DSN-less connection strings for portability of the application. No need to worry about whether the DSN is present on every workstation and it's easy to change in an update to the FE if you need to change your connection ( say been a live and a training BE database). (A very common typo in the interent age, it's DSN (data source name) not DNS ( domain name system) -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 12:47, Den Patrino wrote: > Members ... > > It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've > just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. > I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a > DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. > > Are there pros and cons to one or the other. > > TIA > Patty > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 15:02:49 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:02:49 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4D6EB079.26925.2167B356@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> A very useful reference. I keep it bookmarked and it is my first point of call if I have anything out of the ordinary to connect to. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 10:55, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Patty: > > I am not sure this will answer you question but find a link to three > different sites giving sample connection strings for various versions > of MS SQL and some with explanations. (The list is half way down the > page.) > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com/reference/referencemisc.asp > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Den Patrino > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:47 AM To: > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect > strings > > Members ... > > It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've > just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. > I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a > DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. > > Are there pros and cons to one or the other. > > TIA > Patty > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 15:19:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:19:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Database window In-Reply-To: <000001cbd911$87647410$962d5c30$@com> References: <000001cbd911$87647410$962d5c30$@com> Message-ID: <4D6EB47C.12048.217761AE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The simple way is to select an object in the database window first and then hide the window when it becomes active. DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide The disadvantage of this is that it "flashes" the database window on top of everything. The better way is to paste the following code into a module and call "ShowDbWindow False": Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Declare Function GetClassNameA Lib "user32" ( _ ByVal hwnd As Long, _ ByVal lpClassName As String, _ ByVal nMaxCount As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function GetWindow Lib "user32" ( _ ByVal hwnd As Long, _ ByVal wCmd As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function ShowWindowAsync Lib "user32" ( _ ByVal hwnd As Long, _ ByVal nCmdShow As Long) _ As Boolean Private Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 Private Const GW_CHILD = 5 Private Const SW_HIDE = 0 Private Const SW_SHOW = 5 Private Function GetClassName( _ ByVal hwnd As Long) _ As String Dim lpClassName As String Dim lLen As Long lpClassName = String(255, 32) lLen = GetClassNameA(hwnd, lpClassName, 255) If lLen > 0 Then GetClassName = Left(lpClassName, lLen) End If End Function Public Sub ShowDbWindow(ByVal bCmdShow As Boolean) Dim hWndApp As Long hWndApp = GetWindow(Application.hWndAccessApp, GW_CHILD) Do Until hWndApp = 0 If GetClassName(hWndApp) = "MDIClient" Then Exit Do End If hWndApp = GetWindow(hWndApp, GW_HWNDNEXT) Loop If hWndApp > 0 Then hWndApp = GetWindow(hWndApp, GW_CHILD) Do Until hWndApp = 0 If GetClassName(hWndApp) = "ODb" Then Exit Do End If hWndApp = GetWindow(hWndApp, GW_HWNDNEXT) Loop End If If hWndApp > 0 Then ShowWindowAsync hWndApp, IIf(bCmdShow, SW_SHOW, SW_HIDE) End If End Sub On 2 Mar 2011 at 15:39, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello to all of you, > > > > How do I hide the database window using code? > > > > TIA and Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 15:47:06 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 16:47:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, << << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. What? It certainly can. >> What then is your definition of a PK? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 02:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. What? It certainly can. >As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. Yes they are just pointers or tags. My point is that in SQL Server you create a field with an integer. As a separate step you set it to be an auto-increment. As another separate step you set it to be the PK - SQL Server labels it as the PK of the table. As a result of making the field a PK sql server automatically creates a unique index, on that one field. At that point you have a long auto-increment that is a PK. At that point it has all of the attributes required to be and is in fact a surrogate key. It is indexed unique, it is defined by SQL Server as the PK and it's value is automatically created by the system with no input from the user. It is a surrogate and it performs as one. I use them all the time. All of which has nothing whatsoever to do with preventing duplicate records. The PK surrogate key has a unique index, however it does not prevent duplicates *records*, it just prevents duplicate primary key values. Two separate issues. > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. No, a surrogate PK is a pointer. You can in fact have auto-numbers that are not used as the surrogate PK. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:22 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > <> > > Ah why not? ;) > > <> > > I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a relation > by it's very definition would form a unique index. > > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> > > Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the > function of one. > > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or > tags. > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being > entered more then once? > > ohhhh don't go there!!! > > PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does > not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. > > That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> Debbie, >> >> I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it > as >> such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from >> being entered more then once? >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used >> (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use >> them for the following reasons: >> >> 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is >> supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of >> a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. >> They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short >> code based on the name has changed (sigh). >> 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a >> problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the >> relationship is crap without cascade updates. >> 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural >> keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used >> docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional >> countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, >> refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to >> work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head >> too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it >> probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. >> >> Debbie >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > <> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 15:57:18 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 16:57:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: I have been doing it that way since Access 2000 first introduced ADP files. I never passed through the ODBC stage, just went straight to ADPs SQL Server. I've done a variety of apps this way. The biggest was an app for a large travel agency/event system. Another significant one was for PCB management facilities in Ontario; another was a typical Time/Billing app; another was a safety assessment engineering app that's going nation-wide (that is, Canada) now. I'm so into that mode it never occurs to me to use Access as the Back End any more. If it's on the small side, I'll use SQL Express instead of the full-blown product. Arthur On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > Thanks > I have got to try out Stuart suggestion for updating stored procedures in > SQL Server using ACCESS. > I am not finding any significant differences in speed when using ACCESS > tables and queries versus SQL Server tables and pass through queries, I > assume that is because I am doing my testing on my local machine and not on > a network (or Web). > > Are any of your developing full blown ACCESS/SQL Server applications for > clients? If so what type of an app is it? > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 16:12:40 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 17:12:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, <> It never does as your modeling a join and not some "thing" like a customer, book, or author. << How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product formula and have to store a quantity as well?>> That's a BOM (Bill of Materials) type structure and a one to many. <> You never would, but if you did it would look like this: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B CreatedDT - D/T But that doesn't make any sense as a many to many record is added at the same time as adding a record on one of the sides represented by the table. For example, when entering a book, a user would be forced to select a "written by" and the linking record to the author would be added at that point. You can't have a book without an author. So you would include a CreatedDT on tblBooks rather then on the linking table. One automatically implies the other. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:47 PM To: Jim Dettman; Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When does a "many to many linking table" cease to be a "simply a many to many linking table" How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product formula and have to store a quantity as well? What about if you subsequently need to store info such as the start date of the link relationship. Do you then add a PK? -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 8:04, Jim Dettman wrote: > table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other > fields would ever be added to it. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 16:40:50 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:40:50 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4D6EC772.12133.21C16FA4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Comments inline. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 17:12, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > < many to many linking table" >> > > It never does as your modeling a join and not some "thing" like a > customer, book, or author. > You're not modelling a join - a join is just a programming construct. You are modelling a real world relationship which can have attributes. > << How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product > formula and have to store a quantity as well?>> > > That's a BOM (Bill of Materials) type structure and a one to many. No, it's many to many. Paint Chemical ... Satin White Titanium Dioxide Satin White Water ... Satin Yellow Titaniun Dioxide Satin Yellow Water ... > < date of the link relationship.>> > > You never would, but if you did it would look like this: > I wish I had a buck for every time I've seen "..never would" subseuqnetly happened. > tblBooksAndAuthors > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B > CreatedDT - D/T > > But that doesn't make any sense as a many to many record is added at > the > same time as adding a record on one of the sides represented by the > table. > > For example, when entering a book, a user would be forced to select > a > "written by" and the linking record to the author would be added at > that point. You can't have a book without an author. > > So you would include a CreatedDT on tblBooks rather then on the > linking > table. One automatically implies the other. > I'm talking about the created date of the relationbship, not the objects. For example: Within the Royal Papua Yacht Club we have a number "sub Clubs" which members can join . (Scuba, Deep Sea Fishing, Sailing, Canoe Racing) . I may decide to join the Deep Sea Fishing Club at some point in the future. That join date needs to stored at the link, not in my master record. Members MembPK MembNo MembName membJoinDate ' Joined RPYC CLubs ClubPK ClubName MemberClubs ClubFK MemberFK JoinDate 'Joined the sub-Club From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 2 17:01:15 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 10:01:15 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> Message-ID: <201103022301.p22N1MQo013694@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ haha "become a new "great debate"". That was pretty much what I was thinking. Just when things around here had settled down on the bound / unbound skirmishes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, 3 March 2011 2:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 17:04:10 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 18:04:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> My definition of a PK is: 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. Candidate keys perform function #1 above. There may be several candidate keys. They cannot all be the PK because there can be only one PK! Whether you use a candidate key or a surrogate key as your PK, selecting it as you PK means it CAN AND IN FACT does both. So a PK is a PK simply because it can do both 1 and 2 above AND you select it to be your PK. It does *not* have to be used as a FK to be a PK. However IF you need a FK in a child table to link back to the parent table, then you are *supposed to* use the PK. If you are a fruit or nut, you could use any candidate key to do that. You could even use one candidate key as the FK in table ABC and a second candidate key as your PK in table XYZ. You would of course be a fruit or nut to do that. In fact (IMHO) you would be a fruit or nut to use a natural key at all. ;) An autonumber field with a unique index on it is automatically a candidate key. It can be used to uniquely identify any given record in the table - #1 above. However it in no way guarantees the uniqueness of the *data* in the table. Only a unique index covering a set of fields which, taken together guarantees unique data, will in fact enforce data uniqueness. A natural PK, by definition, performs both. By making it the PK, SQL Server automatically creates a unique index on the entire set of fields, and guarantees *data* uniqueness and, while it is at it, calls it the PK. If we are going to use a surrogate PK, then we *still* have to perform the analysis to find at least one candidate key, and we have to manually create a unique index to cover that candidate key (set of fields). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 4:47 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from > the responsibility of > analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a > unique index on those > fields.>> > > >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled > as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. > > What? It certainly can. >>> > > What then is your definition of a PK? > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 20:11:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 21:11:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AMD Shows Off 16-Core 'Interlagos' Reference Design - Legit Reviews Message-ID: <4D6EF8D5.7060804@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://www.legitreviews.com/news/10164/ From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 09:02:40 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 10:02:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, <> Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. In fact it goes to the very heart of a relational design. When you model data relationally, it is the logical organization of data and its actual meaning that is being worked with. The aspect of how that model is physically implemented is not a consideration at all. With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Rows are instances of whatever your modeling and columns are the attributes. The combination of one or more attributes *must* yield a unique key. If not, then you don't have a proper relation and must add more attributes. When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. To do the latter, you need to tack on another index, which represents either the true primary key for the data, one of the candidates, or a super key. However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go in and change it at will. However if it is assigned to the object it's associated with and turned into an attribute, then it becomes a surrogate PK. An example of that would be handing it to a customer and using it as a customer code. Once I do that, I now cannot go in at will and change it now without informing the customer. Its been given meaning in a logical context. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 06:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My definition of a PK is: 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. Candidate keys perform function #1 above. There may be several candidate keys. They cannot all be the PK because there can be only one PK! Whether you use a candidate key or a surrogate key as your PK, selecting it as you PK means it CAN AND IN FACT does both. So a PK is a PK simply because it can do both 1 and 2 above AND you select it to be your PK. It does *not* have to be used as a FK to be a PK. However IF you need a FK in a child table to link back to the parent table, then you are *supposed to* use the PK. If you are a fruit or nut, you could use any candidate key to do that. You could even use one candidate key as the FK in table ABC and a second candidate key as your PK in table XYZ. You would of course be a fruit or nut to do that. In fact (IMHO) you would be a fruit or nut to use a natural key at all. ;) An autonumber field with a unique index on it is automatically a candidate key. It can be used to uniquely identify any given record in the table - #1 above. However it in no way guarantees the uniqueness of the *data* in the table. Only a unique index covering a set of fields which, taken together guarantees unique data, will in fact enforce data uniqueness. A natural PK, by definition, performs both. By making it the PK, SQL Server automatically creates a unique index on the entire set of fields, and guarantees *data* uniqueness and, while it is at it, calls it the PK. If we are going to use a surrogate PK, then we *still* have to perform the analysis to find at least one candidate key, and we have to manually create a unique index to cover that candidate key (set of fields). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 4:47 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from > the responsibility of > analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a > unique index on those > fields.>> > > >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled > as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. > > What? It certainly can. >>> > > What then is your definition of a PK? > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 09:02:40 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 10:02:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6EC772.12133.21C16FA4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4D6EC772.12133.21C16FA4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, <> I certainly would not model it that way. I have always done that as a one to many BOM structure: tblBOM BOMID - Autonumber - PK AssemblyID - Long - FK to tblItems - CK1-A LineNumber - Long - CK1-b ComponetID - Long - FK to tblItems QPA - Decimal EffectiveDate - DT IneffectiveDate - DT and build up a where used index on the fly based on effective/ineffective dates. <> I understand your point and you are correct. You could add the date (along with a bunch of other attributes) to the linking table and at that point it would no longer be a "simple" linking table. However that does not change my original point: the need to add an auto number PK simply because "I always do it that way" is not required. The pairing of ClubFK and MemberFK work fine as a primary key. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 05:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Comments inline. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 17:12, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > < many to many linking table" >> > > It never does as your modeling a join and not some "thing" like a > customer, book, or author. > You're not modelling a join - a join is just a programming construct. You are modelling a real world relationship which can have attributes. > << How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product > formula and have to store a quantity as well?>> > > That's a BOM (Bill of Materials) type structure and a one to many. No, it's many to many. Paint Chemical ... Satin White Titanium Dioxide Satin White Water ... Satin Yellow Titaniun Dioxide Satin Yellow Water ... > < date of the link relationship.>> > > You never would, but if you did it would look like this: > I wish I had a buck for every time I've seen "..never would" subseuqnetly happened. > tblBooksAndAuthors > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B > CreatedDT - D/T > > But that doesn't make any sense as a many to many record is added at > the > same time as adding a record on one of the sides represented by the > table. > > For example, when entering a book, a user would be forced to select > a > "written by" and the linking record to the author would be added at > that point. You can't have a book without an author. > > So you would include a CreatedDT on tblBooks rather then on the > linking > table. One automatically implies the other. > I'm talking about the created date of the relationbship, not the objects. For example: Within the Royal Papua Yacht Club we have a number "sub Clubs" which members can join . (Scuba, Deep Sea Fishing, Sailing, Canoe Racing) . I may decide to join the Deep Sea Fishing Club at some point in the future. That join date needs to stored at the link, not in my master record. Members MembPK MembNo MembName membJoinDate ' Joined RPYC CLubs ClubPK ClubName MemberClubs ClubFK MemberFK JoinDate 'Joined the sub-Club -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 3 10:58:40 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 11:58:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: " However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go in and change it at will." No you cannot just go in and change it at will. You also have to go find all the records in all the tables that use that Autonumber value as the foreign key back to the table they are relate to. So that's why I don't make an Autonumber PK any kind of meaningful attribute for a record. Real data used to construct Natural PKs can change too, and then it gets messy. Lambert's 2 cents. From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 12:40:33 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 13:40:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> Lambert, <> Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. However I could do that at any time. Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. You still could at that point change it, but not without changing something else. It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all assets. New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits instead of the current 8. I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without going to every asset and re-labeling it. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 11:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server " However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go in and change it at will." No you cannot just go in and change it at will. You also have to go find all the records in all the tables that use that Autonumber value as the foreign key back to the table they are relate to. So that's why I don't make an Autonumber PK any kind of meaningful attribute for a record. Real data used to construct Natural PKs can change too, and then it gets messy. Lambert's 2 cents. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 3 13:00:20 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 11:00:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net> Stuart, I missed that. What was the day of the message? Are you saying that an app will break if it uses ADO and is moved to a Win7 SP1 machine? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 12:53 PM To: Tony Septav; Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility with Win7 SP1? :-) If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have a lot of extra work to do :-( On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and > ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL > Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in > Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do > you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say > to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user > to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is > I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have > to do some rethinking here? -- AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 3 13:31:14 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 14:31:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> Message-ID: I agree 100%.You are describing the reasons why record attribute should *not* be used as primary keys, IMHO. That is precisely why *my* primary keys have no meaning. They are just autonumbers (like John's) and I never have any need to change them. If I need a "Serial Number" or "Order Number" or any such meaningful value then that will be generated by a function that is "aware" of what's happening in the real world (like what was the last order number issued). Lambert :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Lambert, <> Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. However I could do that at any time. Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. You still could at that point change it, but not without changing something else. It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all assets. New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits instead of the current 8. I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without going to every asset and re-labeling it. Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 13:46:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 14:46:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, Pretty much nonsense in my book. > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. (just one example) http://www.1keydata.com/sql/sql-primary-key.html >>>*A primary key is used to uniquely identify each row in a table.* My PK does that! >>>It can either be part of the actual record itself , *or it can be an artificial field (one that has nothing to do with the actual record).* That would be my PK. In MY world, a PK is a FK in another table. It is a pointer back to the parent. That is it's only purpose! PERIOD. (full stop) >In fact it goes to the very heart of a relational design. And has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with the pointers between records. PERIOD. (full stop) YOU (personally and individually) MAKE it have something to do with the pointer, but I do not. And I do not have to, and neither do you. You CHOOSE to make them "related" but they are not. > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Yad yada yada *ad nasium* (meaning this crap makes me physically ill). And having absolutely NOTHING to do with the pointer between records. I have been doing this since the early 90s. Please save this for your intro to databases class. > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. Hmmm, I guess you need to take up your argument with Microsoft, not me. I open Access and create an autonumber and click a button and MICROSOFT calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I open up SQL Server, and I create a autoincrement and click a button and Microsoft calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I drag and drop this PK between the parent and child and the database engine sets up rules designed to enforce referential integrity. I guess what I am saying is I simply don't give a rat's patuty about academic horsepucky. What I care about is that I have a pointer and I have a unique index on a set of fields which guarantees *data* uniqueness and guess what... The two are not related. and... It works! So I have proven that *my* pointer and *my* data uniqueness are completely and totally unrelated, and *you* are simply arguing that I cannot call it a PK. *Don't care*. *Take it up with Microsoft*. When they stop calling it a PK so will I. I will then call it whatever they call it. In the meantime, we (as a functioning society of database designers) need a common vocabulary. Microsoft is calling my pointer a PK so I pretty much have to or I have to copy your page of horse pucky into every email to explain myself. *not happening* Jim, this happens whenever this subject comes up. Some (typically) oldtimer who went through college back when Codd was a young man and the god of database starts talking in academic terms, tuples and relations and all of that stuff. I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple in my life, it makes no difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. I understand what goes in each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to 3rd normal. I have read many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood (at the time I read it) *some* of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric. If I sound uninterested, or even argumentative, it is simply because I find this whole thing quite easy at the real life level, and I have used (what I was told to call) surrogate PKs since oh... about 1994 and it just works. So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 10:02 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > < > 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record > 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. > > NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE > COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. >>> > > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. In fact it goes to the > very heart of a relational design. When you model data relationally, it is > the logical organization of data and its actual meaning that is being worked > with. The aspect of how that model is physically implemented is not a > consideration at all. > > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Rows are > instances of whatever your modeling and columns are the attributes. The > combination of one or more attributes *must* yield a unique key. If not, > then you don't have a proper relation and must add more attributes. > > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as > a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row > uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. To do the latter, you > need to tack on another index, which represents either the true primary key > for the data, one of the candidates, or a super key. > > However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object > it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. > "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just > applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer > or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go > in and change it at will. > > However if it is assigned to the object it's associated with and turned > into an attribute, then it becomes a surrogate PK. An example of that > would be handing it to a customer and using it as a customer code. Once I > do that, I now cannot go in at will and change it now without informing the > customer. Its been given meaning in a logical context. > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 13:51:52 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 14:51:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. You are allowed to do what you are doing but you are not allowed to *call it* a primary key. Jim hasn't told us what we are supposed to call it, nor has he informed Microsoft that they are not allowed to call it a PK. Unfortunately (for Jim) Microsoft and pretty much the rest of the world *does* call it a PK. As far as I can tell, Jim is tilting at windmills. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 2:31 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > I agree 100%.You are describing the reasons why record attribute should *not* be used as primary keys, IMHO. That is precisely why *my* primary keys have no meaning. They are just autonumbers (like John's) and I never have any need to change them. If I need a "Serial Number" or "Order Number" or any such meaningful value then that will be generated by a function that is "aware" of what's happening in the real world (like what was the last order number issued). > > Lambert :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:41 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Lambert, > > <> > > Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. However I could do that at any time. > > Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. You still could at that point change it, but not without changing something else. > It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. > > For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all assets. > New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits instead of the current 8. > > I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without going to every asset and re-labeling it. > > Jim. > From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 14:10:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 15:10:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is just silly.>> That's not the point. <> So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server LOL, Pretty much nonsense in my book. > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. (just one example) http://www.1keydata.com/sql/sql-primary-key.html >>>*A primary key is used to uniquely identify each row in a table.* My PK does that! >>>It can either be part of the actual record itself , *or it can be an artificial field (one that has nothing to do with the actual record).* That would be my PK. In MY world, a PK is a FK in another table. It is a pointer back to the parent. That is it's only purpose! PERIOD. (full stop) >In fact it goes to the very heart of a relational design. And has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with the pointers between records. PERIOD. (full stop) YOU (personally and individually) MAKE it have something to do with the pointer, but I do not. And I do not have to, and neither do you. You CHOOSE to make them "related" but they are not. > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Yad yada yada *ad nasium* (meaning this crap makes me physically ill). And having absolutely NOTHING to do with the pointer between records. I have been doing this since the early 90s. Please save this for your intro to databases class. > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. Hmmm, I guess you need to take up your argument with Microsoft, not me. I open Access and create an autonumber and click a button and MICROSOFT calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I open up SQL Server, and I create a autoincrement and click a button and Microsoft calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I drag and drop this PK between the parent and child and the database engine sets up rules designed to enforce referential integrity. I guess what I am saying is I simply don't give a rat's patuty about academic horsepucky. What I care about is that I have a pointer and I have a unique index on a set of fields which guarantees *data* uniqueness and guess what... The two are not related. and... It works! So I have proven that *my* pointer and *my* data uniqueness are completely and totally unrelated, and *you* are simply arguing that I cannot call it a PK. *Don't care*. *Take it up with Microsoft*. When they stop calling it a PK so will I. I will then call it whatever they call it. In the meantime, we (as a functioning society of database designers) need a common vocabulary. Microsoft is calling my pointer a PK so I pretty much have to or I have to copy your page of horse pucky into every email to explain myself. *not happening* Jim, this happens whenever this subject comes up. Some (typically) oldtimer who went through college back when Codd was a young man and the god of database starts talking in academic terms, tuples and relations and all of that stuff. I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple in my life, it makes no difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. I understand what goes in each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to 3rd normal. I have read many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood (at the time I read it) *some* of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric. If I sound uninterested, or even argumentative, it is simply because I find this whole thing quite easy at the real life level, and I have used (what I was told to call) surrogate PKs since oh... about 1994 and it just works. So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 10:02 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > < > 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record > 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. > > NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE > COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. >>> > > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. In fact it goes to the > very heart of a relational design. When you model data relationally, it is > the logical organization of data and its actual meaning that is being worked > with. The aspect of how that model is physically implemented is not a > consideration at all. > > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Rows are > instances of whatever your modeling and columns are the attributes. The > combination of one or more attributes *must* yield a unique key. If not, > then you don't have a proper relation and must add more attributes. > > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as > a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row > uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. To do the latter, you > need to tack on another index, which represents either the true primary key > for the data, one of the candidates, or a super key. > > However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object > it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. > "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just > applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer > or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go > in and change it at will. > > However if it is assigned to the object it's associated with and turned > into an attribute, then it becomes a surrogate PK. An example of that > would be handing it to a customer and using it as a customer code. Once I > do that, I now cannot go in at will and change it now without informing the > customer. Its been given meaning in a logical context. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From delam at zyterra.com Thu Mar 3 15:04:58 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 15:04:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> This reminds me of a story that may help: A professor in college was not a native English speaker. He took a class when he came to the US as a grad student. Being a class for science majors in English as a second language, physics words figured prominently. The instructor told them the difference between revolving and rotation. Rotation spins on an axis and revolving is moving the whole object around a central point. My professor asked why a revolver was named thus. The instructor (who was English) started muttering about bloody Americans. The moral: it may be proper English, but I will never be understood if I go into a gunshop and ask for a Rotator. Likewise, Jim will never be understood if he insists that an autonuber can never be a PK. Jim, you have met your revolver. Debbie. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 3, 2011, at 1:51 PM, jwcolby wrote: > LOL. You are allowed to do what you are doing but you are not > allowed to *call it* a primary key. > > Jim hasn't told us what we are supposed to call it, nor has he > informed Microsoft that they are not allowed to call it a PK. > Unfortunately (for Jim) Microsoft and pretty much the rest of the > world *does* call it a PK. As far as I can tell, Jim is tilting at > windmills. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/3/2011 2:31 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: >> I agree 100%.You are describing the reasons why record attribute >> should *not* be used as primary keys, IMHO. That is precisely why >> *my* primary keys have no meaning. They are just autonumbers (like >> John's) and I never have any need to change them. If I need a >> "Serial Number" or "Order Number" or any such meaningful value then >> that will be generated by a function that is "aware" of what's >> happening in the real world (like what was the last order number >> issued). >> >> Lambert :-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman >> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:41 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> Lambert, >> >> <> go find all the records in all the tables that use that Autonumber >> value as the foreign key back to the table they are relate to.>> >> >> Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. >> However I could do that at any time. >> >> Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. >> You still could at that point change it, but not without changing >> something else. >> It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. >> >> For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all >> assets. >> New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits >> instead of the current 8. >> >> I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without >> going to every asset and re-labeling it. >> >> Jim. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 15:06:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 13:06:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net> Message-ID: What is the exact problem? I am not experiencing any problems with any of our ADPs using A2010 on W7SP1. I use a lot of ADO calls on my unbound forms. D On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Stuart, > > I missed that. What was the day of the message? Are you saying that an app > will break if it uses ADO and is moved to a Win7 SP1 machine? > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 12:53 PM > To: Tony Septav; Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility with > Win7 SP1? :-) > > If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have a lot > of > extra work to do :-( > > > On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > > > Hey All > > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and > > ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL > > Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in > > Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do > > you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say > > to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user > > to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is > > I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have > > to do some rethinking here? -- AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 15:08:47 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 13:08:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> Message-ID: :) On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Debbie wrote: > This reminds me of a story that may help: > > A professor in college was not a native English speaker. He took a class > when he came to the US as a grad student. Being a class for science majors > in English as a second language, physics words figured prominently. The > instructor told them the difference between revolving and rotation. Rotation > spins on an axis and revolving is moving the whole object around a central > point. > My professor asked why a revolver was named thus. > The instructor (who was English) started muttering about bloody Americans. > > The moral: it may be proper English, but I will never be understood if I go > into a gunshop and ask for a Rotator. > Likewise, Jim will never be understood if he insists that an autonuber can > never be a PK. > > Jim, you have met your revolver. > > Debbie. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 15:14:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:14:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? ROTFL. That would be you. I have a high school education and some hours of community college. Life is strange sometimes. Circumstances didn't align for me getting a degree. My wife has one though, does that count? So, we have established who is the educated one. But I have read the books; I just strictly differentiate between academics and real world. And I have made my living in designing databases since 1994. It has been a good living. And I have made a living learning and writing applications in numerous programming languages. And I read virtually every day to stay abreast of what I need to know to do my job well. So let's just say I know your terms, I understand your terms, and I could care less about your terms. So whip out the "I'm educated" thing on someone else 'cause it doesn't do a thing for me. And by the way you still are not telling us (and Microsoft) what we are supposed to call this ... uh... hm... I don't know what to call it now... you know... the autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. Man that just sounds so... uneducated. ;) Believe me I *do* want to know so that I can avoid the next peeing match. I will try to insert your favorite name for this object in the discussion from here on out. Just an FYI, I really do know and understand normalization. I really do know and understand candidate keys. I really do search for a candidate key to cover with a unique index to enforce data uniqueness. I really do understand multi-field primary keys. I made an ... well... I hesitate to call it... an "educated" decision to *not* use them in favor of the ... here we go again... that autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. You don't know how sad it makes me to know I can no longer tell people I make "educated" decisions. 8( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 3:10 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is > just silly.>> > > That's not the point. > > <> > > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and > the other not; wonder which one that is? > > Jim. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 3 15:23:38 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 07:23:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com>, <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net>, Message-ID: <4D7006DA.9533.26A11DC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Running on Win7 SP1 is not a problem. Compile an application on Win7 SP1 and it may not run on earlier OSs -- Stuart On 3 Mar 2011 at 13:06, David McAfee wrote: > What is the exact problem? > > I am not experiencing any problems with any of our ADPs using A2010 on > W7SP1. > > I use a lot of ADO calls on my unbound forms. > > D > > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Doug Murphy > wrote: > > > Stuart, > > > > I missed that. What was the day of the message? Are you saying that > > an app will break if it uses ADO and is moved to a Win7 SP1 machine? > > > > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 12:53 PM To: Tony Septav; > > Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: > > [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility > > with Win7 SP1? :-) > > > > If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have > > a lot of extra work to do :-( > > > > > > On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > > > > > Hey All > > > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries > > > and ADO connections all working. One question is why would you > > > link to SQL Server tables in Access when you can do everything > > > with ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle > > > subforms and tabs, do you just simply link to SQL Server tables? > > > From my research they say to keep the data simplified on a main > > > form and then allow the user to pick a record and then display a > > > more detailed form. The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and > > > use them where appropriate. Do I have to do some rethinking here? > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 15:43:52 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:43:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Win7Sp1 and ADO In-Reply-To: <4D6D8F84.26700.1CFEF5CB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D6D8F84.26700.1CFEF5CB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D700B98.2090106@colbyconsulting.com> Holy cow! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 7:29 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en- > US/windowsgeneraldevelopmentissues/thread/3a4ce946-effa-4f77-98a6-34f11c6b5a13 From patrinod at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 15:47:58 2011 From: patrinod at gmail.com (Den Patrino) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 16:47:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect Strings Message-ID: Stuart ... Thanks for the replies. I hadn't thought of having to create a DSN on all the pc's that would run the FE application. Using a DSN-less connection in the FE is definitely the way to go. Thanks, Patty Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:59:10 +1000 From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings Message-ID: <4D6EAF9E.15472.21645AAC at stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I always use full DSN-less connection strings for portability of the application. No need to worry about whether the DSN is present on every workstation and it's easy to change in an update to the FE if you need to change your connection ( say been a live and a training BE database). (A very common typo in the interent age, it's DSN (data source name) not DNS ( domain name system) -- Stuart From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 3 16:58:46 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 16:58:46 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How to Prevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS><4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> Message-ID: We are putting together a small Access 2007 Application which will automatically send Emails when orders are received and when orders are shipped. Everything seems to be working nicely in our initial system tests. However, this is new territory for us and we have some concern that our automatically generated Emails will be categorized as spam by the various Emails programs that are used by our customers who will be receiving our Emails. Admittedly, these questions are more "Email" questions than "Access" questions, but I thought that some of you many have run into these issues previously and may be able to point us in the right direction. What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as spam? In the Email header info, I can see the computer name like this... from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com We would like to use an Email "From" address like "Order_Confirmation at AcmeLtd.com. Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam? Again, this is a new area for us. We have tried to find info on the internet, but no relevant articles have been found so far. Thanks in advance for your help, insights, advice. Brad PS. A couple weeks ago, my wife and I visited the Hormel Spam Museum in Austin, Minnesota. One of their many displays is a video of the Monty Python "Spam" skit which some people claim was the origin of the word "spam" (as in unwanted Email). From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Mar 3 17:45:39 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 00:45:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 1. marts 2011 21:23 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Lambert, It needs a unique index, which the Author/Book combination provides. Not sure why the original post got formatted that way, but it should have looked like this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B Which might be clearer. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 01:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 3 18:26:46 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 03:26:46 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> Message-ID: <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 3 18:39:35 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 10:39:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How to Prevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, Message-ID: <4D7034C7.30279.2754844A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> "What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as spam?" Don't use "spammy" Subjects. Don't use ALL CAPITALS. Make sure that there is a plain text part. "Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam?" The internet headers the From: header are two different things. The From: address needs to be a real email address. How are you setting it. On 3 Mar 2011 at 16:58, Brad Marks wrote: > We are putting together a small Access 2007 Application which will > automatically send Emails when orders are received and when orders are > shipped. > > Everything seems to be working nicely in our initial system tests. > > However, this is new territory for us and we have some concern that > our automatically generated Emails will be categorized as spam by the > various Emails programs that are used by our customers who will be > receiving our Emails. > > Admittedly, these questions are more "Email" questions than "Access" > questions, but I thought that some of you many have run into these > issues previously and may be able to point us in the right direction. > > What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as > spam? > > In the Email header info, I can see the computer name like this... > > from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com > > We would like to use an Email "From" address like > "Order_Confirmation at AcmeLtd.com. > > Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to > reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam? > > Again, this is a new area for us. We have tried to find info on the > internet, but no relevant articles have been found so far. > > Thanks in advance for your help, insights, advice. > > Brad > > PS. A couple weeks ago, my wife and I visited the Hormel Spam Museum > in Austin, Minnesota. One of their many displays is a video of the > Monty Python "Spam" skit which some people claim was the origin of the > word "spam" (as in unwanted Email). > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 3 19:09:57 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 19:09:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How toPrevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D7034C7.30279.2754844A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, Thanks for your advice. We are using a third-party Email tool called Febooti. This tool allows us to set the "From" field. >From our tests, I can look at the Email header info. In there I see "from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com" in addition to the normal "From" field. This got me wondering if we perhaps need to rename our "Email Server" so that it is the same as what we are plugging into the "From" field. Maybe I am over-thinking this. The interesting thing is that in some of our tests, the generated Email ended up in the Spam folder for recipients within our office. This really made me wonder how often our customers would have our Emails landing in their Spam folders. Thanks again, Brad PS. Looks like my question on Spam will not raise nearly the excitement that the Primary Key debate has raised :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thu 3/3/2011 6:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How toPrevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam "What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as spam?" Don't use "spammy" Subjects. Don't use ALL CAPITALS. Make sure that there is a plain text part. "Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam?" The internet headers the From: header are two different things. The From: address needs to be a real email address. How are you setting it. On 3 Mar 2011 at 16:58, Brad Marks wrote: > We are putting together a small Access 2007 Application which will > automatically send Emails when orders are received and when orders are > shipped. > > Everything seems to be working nicely in our initial system tests. > > However, this is new territory for us and we have some concern that > our automatically generated Emails will be categorized as spam by the > various Emails programs that are used by our customers who will be > receiving our Emails. > > Admittedly, these questions are more "Email" questions than "Access" > questions, but I thought that some of you many have run into these > issues previously and may be able to point us in the right direction. > > What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as > spam? > > In the Email header info, I can see the computer name like this... > > from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com > > We would like to use an Email "From" address like > "Order_Confirmation at AcmeLtd.com. > > Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to > reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam? > > Again, this is a new area for us. We have tried to find info on the > internet, but no relevant articles have been found so far. > > Thanks in advance for your help, insights, advice. > > Brad > > PS. A couple weeks ago, my wife and I visited the Hormel Spam Museum > in Austin, Minnesota. One of their many displays is a video of the > Monty Python "Spam" skit which some people claim was the origin of the > word "spam" (as in unwanted Email). > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From michael at mattysconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 20:22:55 2011 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 21:22:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? Can we get back to the debate, please? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? ROTFL. That would be you. I have a high school education and some hours of community college. Life is strange sometimes. Circumstances didn't align for me getting a degree. My wife has one though, does that count? So, we have established who is the educated one. But I have read the books; I just strictly differentiate between academics and real world. And I have made my living in designing databases since 1994. It has been a good living. And I have made a living learning and writing applications in numerous programming languages. And I read virtually every day to stay abreast of what I need to know to do my job well. So let's just say I know your terms, I understand your terms, and I could care less about your terms. So whip out the "I'm educated" thing on someone else 'cause it doesn't do a thing for me. And by the way you still are not telling us (and Microsoft) what we are supposed to call this ... uh... hm... I don't know what to call it now... you know... the autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. Man that just sounds so... uneducated. ;) Believe me I *do* want to know so that I can avoid the next peeing match. I will try to insert your favorite name for this object in the discussion from here on out. Just an FYI, I really do know and understand normalization. I really do know and understand candidate keys. I really do search for a candidate key to cover with a unique index to enforce data uniqueness. I really do understand multi-field primary keys. I made an ... well... I hesitate to call it... an "educated" decision to *not* use them in favor of the ... here we go again... that autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. You don't know how sad it makes me to know I can no longer tell people I make "educated" decisions. 8( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 3:10 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is > just silly.>> > > That's not the point. > > <> > > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is > educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 20:44:27 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 21:44:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> Message-ID: <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> AFAICT there is no debate other than what to call the auto-increment pointer thingy. As soon as we stop calling it a PK Jim seems to be happy. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 9:22 PM, Michael Mattys wrote: > > Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? > I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? > > Can we get back to the debate, please? > > Michael R Mattys > Business Process Developers > www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 21:45:18 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 22:45:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] In Pictures: 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - Forbes.com Message-ID: <4D70604E.9060805@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://www.forbes.com/2011/02/23/dumbest-warning-labels-entrepreneurs-sales-marketing-warning-labels_slide.html From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 3 21:46:35 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 13:46:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway>, <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D70609B.25766.27FFBBC2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If you chose to use an auto-increment pointer thingy as the primary key for relationship purposes, then by definition - it is a PK. If Jim choses to use one real world value or a composite collection of them as the primary key for relationship purposes, then that too is a PK. The PK is whatever *you* chose as the "primary" way to uniquely identify records. The choice between the two ways of doing so comes down to a personal decision by the designer. Neither way is "correct" or "the only way". All I know is that in my experience, I've seen complications/problems caused by using natural keys as the PK, I've never had a problem with an autonumber so that's what I chose to use. -- Stuart On 3 Mar 2011 at 21:44, jwcolby wrote: > AFAICT there is no debate other than what to call the auto-increment > pointer thingy. As soon as we stop calling it a PK Jim seems to be > happy. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/3/2011 9:22 PM, Michael Mattys wrote: > > > > Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? > > I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? > > > > Can we get back to the debate, please? > > > > Michael R Mattys > > Business Process Developers > > www.mattysconsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 4 04:05:02 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 13:05:02 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D70609B.25766.27FFBBC2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway>, <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> <4D70609B.25766.27FFBBC2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart -- <<< I've never had a problem with an autonumber >>> "There is no free cheese in this world" you know :) - replication could create subtle collision issues when autonumbers used - and that would be another kind of collision from the one which could "arise its ugly head" when natural PKs are used; - memory overhead is another issue as Jim noted ("consistent data modelers" do neglect it); - ... Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 6:47 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server If you chose to use an auto-increment pointer thingy as the primary key for relationship purposes, then by definition - it is a PK. If Jim choses to use one real world value or a composite collection of them as the primary key for relationship purposes, then that too is a PK. The PK is whatever *you* chose as the "primary" way to uniquely identify records. The choice between the two ways of doing so comes down to a personal decision by the designer. Neither way is "correct" or "the only way". All I know is that in my experience, I've seen complications/problems caused by using natural keys as the PK, I've never had a problem with an autonumber so that's what I chose to use. -- Stuart On 3 Mar 2011 at 21:44, jwcolby wrote: > AFAICT there is no debate other than what to call the auto-increment > pointer thingy. As soon as we stop calling it a PK Jim seems to be > happy. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/3/2011 9:22 PM, Michael Mattys wrote: > > > > Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? > > I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? > > > > Can we get back to the debate, please? > > > > Michael R Mattys > > Business Process Developers > > www.mattysconsulting.com > -- From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Mar 4 06:30:10 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 04:30:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: <4D70DB52.7030306@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All Come on now. PK this and PK that, very very interesting discussion. In my younger years I got a job with Fish and Wildlife. I would be doing field work for a branch office about 100 miles from where I lived. I was told when I get there the CO would meet me and describe the area I would be working in. Now coming from a military background CO meant the Commanding Officer. As a young sprout all the way driving up there I was thinking "Hey Zeus first day on the job and I am going to be meeting with the Commanding Officer, very cool." Turned out when I got there that CO meant Conservation Officer (wildlife cop). Sorry just trying to lighten things up, true story though. From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 07:53:04 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 07:53:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: In Pictures: 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - Forbes.com Message-ID: <001201cbda73$7cc26540$76472fc0$@comcast.net> These seem dumb, but the companies know that. The labels are there because there is some government requirement, or because someone tried to do that, got hurt, and sued (like blow drying your hair while asleep?). I agree with the deer crossing signs - lots of deer where I live and drivers need to know (1 dead deer = 1 totaled car). But we also need car crossing signs so the deer know to be careful too. LOL! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] In Pictures: 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - Forbes.com -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://www.forbes.com/2011/02/23/dumbest-warning-labels-entrepreneurs-sales- marketing-warning-labels_slide.html -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 4 08:09:02 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 15:09:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Asger et al So true. Had to maintain a system with up to five-field compound PKs. Terrible. /gustav >>> ab-mi at post3.tele.dk 04-03-2011 00:45 >>> Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 4 08:10:08 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 15:10:08 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Shamil et al This is where GUIDs come in. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 04-03-2011 11:05 >>> Hi Stuart -- <<< I've never had a problem with an autonumber >>> "There is no free cheese in this world" you know :) - replication could create subtle collision issues when autonumbers used - and that would be another kind of collision from the one which could "arise its ugly head" when natural PKs are used; - memory overhead is another issue as Jim noted ("consistent data modelers" do neglect it); - ... Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Thank you. -- Shamil From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 4 08:20:53 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 17:20:53 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- I meant Alternative (Natural) Keys Collisions with PKs ((Random) Autonumbers or GUIDs) having different values. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 17:10 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Shamil et al This is where GUIDs come in. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 04-03-2011 11:05 >>> Hi Stuart -- <<< I've never had a problem with an autonumber >>> "There is no free cheese in this world" you know :) - replication could create subtle collision issues when autonumbers used - and that would be another kind of collision from the one which could "arise its ugly head" when natural PKs are used; - memory overhead is another issue as Jim noted ("consistent data modelers" do neglect it); - ... Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Thank you. -- Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 11:43:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 12:43:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: NUMA memory, dual sockets and memory usage Message-ID: <4D7124D4.9000903@colbyconsulting.com> I built a server with dual cpu sockets but I only populated one side and put all of the memory in that side (8) 4 gig dimms. If I were to put another process in the other socket, what would happen in the case where only a single core in one chip needed as much memory as possible. I assume that it could access the memory on the other socket through the CPU on that socket? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 11:44:41 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 12:44:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... Message-ID: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the other day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just could not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a control, get it set up the way you want - font, font size, back color etc - and then format / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they purchased 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know anything before I go upgrade them. AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any other caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 12:05:33 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 12:05:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... In-Reply-To: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> I don't think that labels have a default property - text boxes do. For a text box, the default value in in properties, under Data. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the other day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just could not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a control, get it set up the way you want - font, font size, back color etc - and then format / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they purchased 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know anything before I go upgrade them. AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any other caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 12:47:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 13:47:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... In-Reply-To: <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> No that is not what I am taking about. Not default property, default *settings*. It is a format thing. when you set up a form you can say "when I drag a control (in this case a label) out onto the form I want it to look like this..." In 2003 open a form in design view. select a label in the menu, select format / set control defaults THAT is what I am trying to find in Access 2007. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/4/2011 1:05 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > I don't think that labels have a default property - text boxes do. For a > text box, the default value in in properties, under Data. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... > > LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the other > day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. > > I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just could > not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a control, get it > set up the way you want - font, font size, back color etc - and then format > / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. > > Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? > > Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they purchased > 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know > anything before I go upgrade them. > > AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. > Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any other > caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 14:06:57 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:06:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... In-Reply-To: <4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> <4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> I found this: http://allenbrowne.com/ser-43.html And - after 13 years of programming access, I did not know about this feature. OMG - What else don't I know?!? Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 12:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... No that is not what I am taking about. Not default property, default *settings*. It is a format thing. when you set up a form you can say "when I drag a control (in this case a label) out onto the form I want it to look like this..." In 2003 open a form in design view. select a label in the menu, select format / set control defaults THAT is what I am trying to find in Access 2007. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/4/2011 1:05 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > I don't think that labels have a default property - text boxes do. > For a text box, the default value in in properties, under Data. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... > > LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the > other day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. > > I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just > could not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a > control, get it set up the way you want - font, font size, back color > etc - and then format / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. > > Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? > > Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they > purchased > 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know > anything before I go upgrade them. > > AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. > Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any > other caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Fri Mar 4 14:55:59 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:55:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> Message-ID: We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 15:16:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 16:16:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Finding the Set Control Defaults - Office Watch Message-ID: <4D715695.6080806@colbyconsulting.com> Here it is! http://news.office-watch.com/t/n.aspx?articleid=987&zoneid=30 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Fri Mar 4 16:10:36 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 23:10:36 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> Message-ID: <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Hi Shamil In another posting you wrote: > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. >From a logical design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 4 16:31:06 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 01:31:06 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc><394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Message-ID: Hi Asger -- <<< So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? >>> I do not care how to call a surrogate key - a "physical PK" is OK with me. :) As I noted I do care more on "consistent data modeling" when all and every table gets surrogate PK - as you and John do - I do the same, and I did have to get and to fix legacy data models "nightmares" with five levels hierarchies of natural keys propagating from upper to the lower level of that hierarchy... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 1:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Shamil In another posting you wrote: > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. >From a logical design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 4 16:43:09 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 08:43:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Message-ID: <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need to differentiate according to what the key is based on. -- Stuart On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > Hi Shamil > > In another posting you wrote: > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design point > of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from > a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate > auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the > surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the > combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? > > Asger > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Hi Asger -- > > <<< > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which > *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is > what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to > all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure > relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond > Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Jim, > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so > far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of > using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK > key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I > use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead > compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what > happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the > story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you > only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a > natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many > columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much > bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will > create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even > more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then > chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one > imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one > column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking > table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. > > Asger > > <<< snip >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 16:47:47 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:47:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I love developers that use SSN and/or email addresses as PKs. Those never change, or are never faked. From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Fri Mar 4 18:52:01 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 01:52:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need to differentiate according to what the key is based on. -- Stuart On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > Hi Shamil > > In another posting you wrote: > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design point > of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from > a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate > auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the > surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the > combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? > > Asger > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Hi Asger -- > > <<< > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which > *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is > what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to > all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure > relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond > Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Jim, > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so > far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of > using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK > key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I > use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead > compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what > happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the > story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you > only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a > natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many > columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much > bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will > create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even > more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then > chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one > imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one > column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking > table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. > > Asger > > <<< snip >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 4 19:09:01 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 11:09:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Message-ID: <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies > each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate > unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in > every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just > add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural > column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical > PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My > point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a > logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of > more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each > record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But > that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual > ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be > prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the > actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have > learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If > the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products > table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate > ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two > quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: > ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate > ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer > don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK > and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the > natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical > sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key > for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need > to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > -- > Stuart > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Hi Shamil > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design > > point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. > > But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a > > surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) > > calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key > > points to the combined natural key which then should be named a > > "logical PK"? > > > > Asger > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > <<< > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for > > pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Jim, > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting > > so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead > > of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate > > PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if > > I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an > > overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. > > But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? > > Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main > > table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - > > using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as > > many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a > > much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally > > will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table > > then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each > > one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with > > one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a > > linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child > > tables. > > > > Asger > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Fri Mar 4 19:28:02 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 02:28:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <552C7783AC164A33A0B0B9BEB6827192@abpc> Stuart, Worried, are you feeling well? Don't understand a word of your mumble. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan Sendt: 5. marts 2011 02:09 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies > each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate > unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in > every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just > add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural > column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical > PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My > point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a > logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of > more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each > record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But > that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual > ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be > prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the > actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have > learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If > the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products > table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate > ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two > quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: > ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate > ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer > don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK > and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the > natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical > sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key > for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need > to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > -- > Stuart > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Hi Shamil > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design > > point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. > > But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a > > surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) > > calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key > > points to the combined natural key which then should be named a > > "logical PK"? > > > > Asger > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > <<< > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for > > pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Jim, > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting > > so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead > > of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate > > PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if > > I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an > > overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. > > But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? > > Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main > > table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - > > using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as > > many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a > > much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally > > will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table > > then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each > > one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with > > one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a > > linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child > > tables. > > > > Asger > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 4 20:04:39 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 12:04:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Abbreviations and the Great Debate was (Access and SQL Server) In-Reply-To: <552C7783AC164A33A0B0B9BEB6827192@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <552C7783AC164A33A0B0B9BEB6827192@abpc> Message-ID: <4D719A37.15730.2CC8C3C6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You'll notice that I have changed the subject! D,RFC = Ducking, Running For Cover! I knew as soon as I saw the first posting that it would end up as another round of the great surrogate/natural PK debate that somehow comes up every year or so on the list with no- one's opinions being changed. I really didn't want to get dragged into it again -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 2:28, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart, > Worried, are you feeling well? Don't understand a word of your mumble. > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 5. marts 2011 02:09 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > B*gger, > > I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this > debate after all. > > I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was > the very succint > > > D,RFC :-) > > > And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! > > -- > Stuart > > > On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Stuart (and Shamil) > > > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > > words... > > > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely > > identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a > > surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be > > present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you > > can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't > > have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are > > unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table > > won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking > > about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one > > or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely > > identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always > > need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as > > the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it > > may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make > > this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with > > customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use > > surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the > > primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use > > an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this > > would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is > > actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design > > language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design > > language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for > > choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is > > wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a > > PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > > > Asger > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) > > key for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no > > need to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > > > Hi Shamil > > > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? > > > > Anybody? > > > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear > > > up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical > > > design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms > > > the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be > > > implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be > > > happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", > > > admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which > > > then should be named a "logical PK"? > > > > > > Asger > > > > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > > Server > > > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > > > <<< > > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK > > > for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are > > > many... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > > > Jim, > > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole > > > posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the > > > overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of > > > just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that > > > using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique > > > index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural > > > columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So > > > in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a > > > natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I > > > think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that > > > the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the > > > composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to > > > create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite > > > different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a > > > FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural > > > composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns > > > as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much > > > bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will > > > create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child > > > table then chances are that you might need two or more child > > > tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a > > > surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate > > > PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem > > > to need child tables. > > > > > > Asger > > > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 21:16:46 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 22:16:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Message-ID: <4D71AB1E.4020006@colbyconsulting.com> And didn't I say exactly that at the very beginning of this thread? Anyone who lets the customer dictate the actual design of the database needs to be in a different business. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/4/2011 7:52 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. > When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. > > Asger From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat Mar 5 05:37:22 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 14:37:22 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc><4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Message-ID: <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> Hi Asger -- <<< When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. >>> Let me note that in the case of unique rows "maximal (length) logical PK" would be combination of all columns' values of a row. I suppose I'm in your and JC's camp - let me be in? :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 3:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger <<< snip >> From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat Mar 5 08:30:20 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 15:30:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc><4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> Message-ID: Hi Shamil Exactly - and you are welcome :-) Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 5. marts 2011 12:37 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. >>> Let me note that in the case of unique rows "maximal (length) logical PK" would be combination of all columns' values of a row. I suppose I'm in your and JC's camp - let me be in? :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 3:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Mar 5 10:24:19 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 10:24:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times In-Reply-To: References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000c01cbdb51$c85c30b0$59149210$@comcast.net> Hi Brad, My systems I do something similar to allow/disallow actions based on a user's job role, or if they are an administrator, or the developer (me). All of the data for these settings is stored in the BE database file in a variety of tables - but they could also be installed in a separate BE file just as well. I think your approach is sound. And I'm assuming that you have a client/system configuration (several FE's on client PC's with the data stored in one or more BE data files on a server). If your system typically takes only 1/2 second to set the tabs, but sometimes it takes 15 seconds, I'd have to say the first thing to look at is a network connection that is causing the delay. So you'll need to enlist your IT folks for some help. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sat Mar 5 11:47:01 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 11:47:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> <000c01cbdb51$c85c30b0$59149210$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Dan, Thanks for your insights. I will discuss this issue some more with our network folks. I know that I can eliminate the occasional slowness by using a local table or "hard coding" the permissions. These approaches will make it more difficult to retain the control of the information in the hands of the application administrator, however. I have given some thought to reading the control file and using it to generate VBA code. This would, however, require a two-step approach (1) administrator changes the data (2) Access developer uses the data to generate new VBA code and then moves this new code from TEST to PROD. This is not ideal, but it may be better than the occasional slowness if we cannot find the root cause. Thanks again, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Dan Waters Sent: Sat 3/5/2011 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times Hi Brad, My systems I do something similar to allow/disallow actions based on a user's job role, or if they are an administrator, or the developer (me). All of the data for these settings is stored in the BE database file in a variety of tables - but they could also be installed in a separate BE file just as well. I think your approach is sound. And I'm assuming that you have a client/system configuration (several FE's on client PC's with the data stored in one or more BE data files on a server). If your system typically takes only 1/2 second to set the tabs, but sometimes it takes 15 seconds, I'd have to say the first thing to look at is a network connection that is causing the delay. So you'll need to enlist your IT folks for some help. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Sat Mar 5 15:44:36 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:44:36 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times In-Reply-To: References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net><000c01cbdb51$c85c30b0$59149210$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <77784D707F5948E68BA95B97666C5210@stevelaptop> Hi Brad, One thing you could consider is reading those data from the external control tables at the time when the application is started up. Since you are using Access 2007, it may be applicable to use TempVars. Alternatively, copy the data into local tables, and then have your procedures relate to the local copies of the data rather than to the external control tables themselves. That way, if there is any slowness, it will be at startup, rather than during production usage time, and therefore not so disruptive. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Brad Marks Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 6:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times Dan, Thanks for your insights. I will discuss this issue some more with our network folks. I know that I can eliminate the occasional slowness by using a local table or "hard coding" the permissions. These approaches will make it more difficult to retain the control of the information in the hands of the application administrator, however. I have given some thought to reading the control file and using it to generate VBA code. This would, however, require a two-step approach (1) administrator changes the data (2) Access developer uses the data to generate new VBA code and then moves this new code from TEST to PROD. This is not ideal, but it may be better than the occasional slowness if we cannot find the root cause. Thanks again, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Dan Waters Sent: Sat 3/5/2011 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times Hi Brad, My systems I do something similar to allow/disallow actions based on a user's job role, or if they are an administrator, or the developer (me). All of the data for these settings is stored in the BE database file in a variety of tables - but they could also be installed in a separate BE file just as well. I think your approach is sound. And I'm assuming that you have a client/system configuration (several FE's on client PC's with the data stored in one or more BE data files on a server). If your system typically takes only 1/2 second to set the tabs, but sometimes it takes 15 seconds, I'd have to say the first thing to look at is a network connection that is causing the delay. So you'll need to enlist your IT folks for some help. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:29:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:29:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> Message-ID: Asger, Sorry about being MIA on this, but I had some major systems work to perform at an out of town client this past weekend, so time was very limited Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. <> That's the point where you'd tack on an auto number, but I don't agree with a design where you do that up front just for the sake of consistency. Even with the extended/non-simple linking table that Stuart brought up (which I don't think of as a linking table even though he was correct in that it really is one), I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 06:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 1. marts 2011 21:23 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Lambert, It needs a unique index, which the Author/Book combination provides. Not sure why the original post got formatted that way, but it should have looked like this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B Which might be clearer. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 01:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:46:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:46:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc><394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Message-ID: <3C802977CDBA410D86845C4A1969E5CC@XPS> Shamil, Consider though that the only reason it is a nightmare is the issue of performance. If that didn't exist as an issue, would there be any problem with using natural primary keys or surrogates (not a meaningless key). My answer to that would be no. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 05:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? >>> I do not care how to call a surrogate key - a "physical PK" is OK with me. :) As I noted I do care more on "consistent data modeling" when all and every table gets surrogate PK - as you and John do - I do the same, and I did have to get and to fix legacy data models "nightmares" with five levels hierarchies of natural keys propagating from upper to the lower level of that hierarchy... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 1:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Shamil In another posting you wrote: > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. >From a logical design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:46:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:46:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> Message-ID: <> I think that point was lost on John...I wasn't talking about education only in terms of schooling. As for the "debate" I really don't think there is much of one. My point that we all use primary keys in our applications despite the fact that we all use auto numbers for physical keys is correct. Whether its by having additional indexes or simply arranging our user interfaces in specific ways to present data, primary keys are used. By being cognizant of the differences between what a true primary key is and something that is labeled as such in table design even though it is not lets you build better apps. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 09:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? Can we get back to the debate, please? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? ROTFL. That would be you. I have a high school education and some hours of community college. Life is strange sometimes. Circumstances didn't align for me getting a degree. My wife has one though, does that count? So, we have established who is the educated one. But I have read the books; I just strictly differentiate between academics and real world. And I have made my living in designing databases since 1994. It has been a good living. And I have made a living learning and writing applications in numerous programming languages. And I read virtually every day to stay abreast of what I need to know to do my job well. So let's just say I know your terms, I understand your terms, and I could care less about your terms. So whip out the "I'm educated" thing on someone else 'cause it doesn't do a thing for me. And by the way you still are not telling us (and Microsoft) what we are supposed to call this ... uh... hm... I don't know what to call it now... you know... the autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. Man that just sounds so... uneducated. ;) Believe me I *do* want to know so that I can avoid the next peeing match. I will try to insert your favorite name for this object in the discussion from here on out. Just an FYI, I really do know and understand normalization. I really do know and understand candidate keys. I really do search for a candidate key to cover with a unique index to enforce data uniqueness. I really do understand multi-field primary keys. I made an ... well... I hesitate to call it... an "educated" decision to *not* use them in favor of the ... here we go again... that autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. You don't know how sad it makes me to know I can no longer tell people I make "educated" decisions. 8( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 3:10 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is > just silly.>> > > That's not the point. > > <> > > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is > educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:52:25 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:52:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc><4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> Message-ID: <8CB99E61901E491BB33FCEFC7C03EF2D@XPS> Shamil, <> Yes, that would be what is referred to as a "supper key"; any combination of one or more attributes that can form a unique combination is a super key. Out of that group comes the candidates and then out of that group, one is chosen as a primary key. That candidate being the one which is as minimal as possible, as familiar as possible, and as stable as possible. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 06:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. >>> Let me note that in the case of unique rows "maximal (length) logical PK" would be combination of all columns' values of a row. I suppose I'm in your and JC's camp - let me be in? :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 3:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:52:25 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:52:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <18947638A2BF4F5CAC4AC9119ADA12E6@XPS> Stuart, Ah come on, it's been a little too quiet around here for too long... Seems we cover more off-topic things then anything else around here lately. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 08:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies > each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate > unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in > every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just > add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural > column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical > PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My > point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a > logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of > more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each > record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But > that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual > ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be > prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the > actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have > learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If > the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products > table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate > ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two > quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: > ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate > ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer > don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK > and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the > natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical > sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key > for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need > to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > -- > Stuart > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Hi Shamil > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design > > point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. > > But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a > > surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) > > calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key > > points to the combined natural key which then should be named a > > "logical PK"? > > > > Asger > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > <<< > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for > > pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Jim, > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting > > so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead > > of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate > > PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if > > I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an > > overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. > > But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? > > Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main > > table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - > > using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as > > many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a > > much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally > > will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table > > then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each > > one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with > > one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a > > linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child > > tables. > > > > Asger > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 7 09:18:06 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 16:18:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 09:22:18 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 10:22:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gustav, Well you may shoot yourself in the foot at times with that approach. In the book/author linking table example I gave, what if you had millions of rows? Your going to maintain an extra index on the auto number key simply because you want one when the book ID/Author ID works fine as a key and you need a index on it anyway? Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:18 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Mar 7 10:12:41 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:12:41 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Jim and All -- <<< No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. >>> Yes. As for performance issues for millions of rows as you Jim noted - some very small performance loss on inserting a row can be neglected. Jim, let me suppose this my answer will be also an answer on two your other today's postings here addressed to me? 2All: for the case of surrogate PK and a natural (compound) alternate key - which one will you make based on a clustered index and which one - based on non-clustered and why? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 7 ????? 2011 ?. 18:18 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Mar 7 10:15:24 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:15:24 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <18947638A2BF4F5CAC4AC9119ADA12E6@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc><4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <18947638A2BF4F5CAC4AC9119ADA12E6@XPS> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- <<< Ah come on, it's been a little too quiet around here for too long... >>> Yes! :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 7 ????? 2011 ?. 17:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart, Ah come on, it's been a little too quiet around here for too long... Seems we cover more off-topic things then anything else around here lately. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 08:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart <<< snip >>> From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 7 10:58:12 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:58:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Jim I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a an autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for updates of other fields, and tables that large typically are for appending/reading only. But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where possible. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 16:22 >>> Gustav, Well you may shoot yourself in the foot at times with that approach. In the book/author linking table example I gave, what if you had millions of rows? Your going to maintain an extra index on the auto number key simply because you want one when the book ID/Author ID works fine as a key and you need a index on it anyway? Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:18 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 18:00:04 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:00:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Let us distinguish two problems: The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an arbitrary-numbered case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid which eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level of detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and potentially life-saving. The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or windshield or manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike the aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift and a line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which attributes we choose to model. IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number problem, but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, this latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my piece at Red Gate's site). Arthur On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim > > I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a an > autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for updates of > other fields, and tables that large typically are for appending/reading > only. > > But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where possible. > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 16:22 >>> > Gustav, > > Well you may shoot yourself in the foot at times with that approach. > > In the book/author linking table example I gave, what if you had millions > of rows? Your going to maintain an extra index on the auto number key > simply because you want one when the book ID/Author ID works fine as a key > and you need a index on it anyway? > > Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:18 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Hi Jim > > In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily > even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. > Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, > same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. > > I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable > compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber > Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It > makes > life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a > lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> > > I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK > some where. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 8 05:42:02 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 12:42:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] PITA and temporal database (was: Access and SQL Server) Message-ID: Hi Arthur This is what you brought up 4? years ago: --- >>> artful at rogers.com 2006-11-22 13:14:50 >>> There is a whole other subject on this, about which I have written, but I googled it and it didn't come up, so perhaps I wrote it and forgot to sell it to somebody. The gist is this: it's called PITA, which doesn't mean pain in the arse, but rather Point In Time Architecture. Without PITA, the central problem with relational databases is that they don't provide an instant "roll back to August 1" capability. With PITA, they do. It's not all that complicated, but it does require a detailed walk-through so you can understand all the implications, the most critical of which is, "Nothing is ever updated. An updated row is actually replaced, and the updated row's EndDate column is updated to reflect the datetime on which the row was "changed". Thus it becomes possible to issue a query that reflects the state of the database on August 1, 2005. Obviously this increases the size of the db significantly, but in certain environments (such as medical), this is critical -- who was JWC's physician on that date, and what tests were performed, and by which medicos, and so on. So. Today's job is to dig out that PITA article and pitch it to somebody. --- Somehow you must have succeeded because your writing can found here, dated 2007-02-22: http://www.simple-talk.com/sql/database-administration/database-design-a-point-in-time-architecture/ As I wrote back also on 2006-11-22, what you describe is a temporal database or - more precise - a bitemporal: In the literature, two time lines of interest have been mentioned, transaction time and valid time. The valid time line represents when a fact is valid in modelled world (i.e. when it was believed) and the transaction time line represents when a transaction was performed. A bitemporal database is a combination of valid time and transaction time databases where these two time lines are considered to be orthogonal. (Snodgrass & Ahn 1986) This is a fascinating area, and your article describes nicely how - using SQL Server - to deal with some of the issues for a practical implementation of this theory (from 1986). However, I miss the connection to your eggs. To me, the collection of eggs describes rather a batch: A given population of 200 hens produce each day a collected batch of eggs which perhaps are stamped with a producer id and batch id but at least packed with other eggs from the same batch only. The batch id is written on the package. This way a bad egg at the consumer can be tracked back to the package, the producer, the date, the packing machine, the population of hens, and - perhaps - the possible bags of corn (or whatever) used to feed these hens. You will record all associated data in a write-once/read-many database, but as you by definition never will change or correct these data, I see no scenario for a temporal or PITA database, it's more like a log file. The only date field needed here is the packing date. And how about the autonumber and the index maintenance Jim brought up? /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 08-03-2011 01:00 >>> Let us distinguish two problems: The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an arbitrary-numbered case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid which eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level of detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and potentially life-saving. The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or windshield or manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike the aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift and a line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which attributes we choose to model. IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number problem, but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, this latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my piece at Red Gate's site). Arthur On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim > > I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a an > autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for updates of > other fields, and tables that large typically are for appending/reading > only. > > But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where possible. > > /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 8 08:49:43 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 09:49:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] PITA and temporal database (was: Access and SQL Server) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D764207.7060906@colbyconsulting.com> While this is a nice idea, and perhaps critical somewhere, I cannot see it being usable in most environments. I have a claim table with 50 or 100 fields and I am going to store all of that again because a single date in one field is changed? In an ideal world without real world constraints, go for it. However we are replacing natural keys with surrogates because of issues with storing just a handful of fields "over again" and the negative impacts on speed and storage requirements that natural keys bring. If I were going to do a temporal kind of db I would go with a "normalized" solution where I stored just the PKID of the record changing, name of the field (or ID of the field) the "old" field data, and the change time. Then you end up with a "change log" concept. All of which demands intense analysis to determine where the change log becomes less efficient than storing the whole record. One way or the other (in my experience), very few clients are willing to pay for this kind of thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/8/2011 6:42 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > This is what you brought up 4? years ago: > > --- >>>> artful at rogers.com 2006-11-22 13:14:50>>> > > There is a whole other subject on this, about which I have written, but > I googled it and it didn't come up, so perhaps I wrote it and forgot to > sell it to somebody. The gist is this: it's called PITA, which doesn't > mean pain in the arse, but rather Point In Time Architecture. Without > PITA, the central problem with relational databases is that they don't > provide an instant "roll back to August 1" capability. With PITA, they > do. It's not all that complicated, but it does require a detailed > walk-through so you can understand all the implications, the most > critical of which is, "Nothing is ever updated. An updated row is > actually replaced, and the updated row's EndDate column is updated to > reflect the datetime on which the row was "changed". Thus it becomes > possible to issue a query that reflects the state of the database on > August 1, 2005. Obviously this increases the size of the db > significantly, but in certain environments (such as medical), this is > critical -- who was JWC's physician on that date, and what tests were > performed, and by which medicos, and so on. > > So. Today's job is to dig out that PITA article and pitch it to > somebody. > --- > > Somehow you must have succeeded because your writing can found here, > dated 2007-02-22: > > http://www.simple-talk.com/sql/database-administration/database-design-a-point-in-time-architecture/ > > As I wrote back also on 2006-11-22, what you describe is a temporal > database or - more precise - a bitemporal: > > > In the literature, two time lines of interest have been mentioned, > transaction time and valid time. The valid time line represents when a > fact is valid in modelled world (i.e. when it was believed) and the > transaction time line represents when a transaction was performed. A > bitemporal database is a combination of valid time and transaction time > databases where these two time lines are considered to be orthogonal. > (Snodgrass& Ahn 1986) > > > This is a fascinating area, and your article describes nicely how - > using SQL Server - to deal with some of the issues for a practical > implementation of this theory (from 1986). > > However, I miss the connection to your eggs. > > To me, the collection of eggs describes rather a batch: A given > population of 200 hens produce each day a collected batch of eggs which > perhaps are stamped with a producer id and batch id but at least packed > with other eggs from the same batch only. The batch id is written on the > package. > This way a bad egg at the consumer can be tracked back to the package, > the producer, the date, the packing machine, the population of hens, and > - perhaps - the possible bags of corn (or whatever) used to feed these > hens. > You will record all associated data in a write-once/read-many database, > but as you by definition never will change or correct these data, I see > no scenario for a temporal or PITA database, it's more like a log file. > The only date field needed here is the packing date. > > And how about the autonumber and the index maintenance Jim brought up? > > /gustav > > >>>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 08-03-2011 01:00>>> > Let us distinguish two problems: > > The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays > several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an > arbitrary-numbered > case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid > which > eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level > of > detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and > potentially > life-saving. > > The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or > windshield or > manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike > the > aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift > and a > line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. > > Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which > attributes we > choose to model. > > IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number > problem, > but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, > this > latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time > Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my > piece at > Red Gate's site). > > Arthur > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Gustav Brock > wrote: > >> Hi Jim >> >> I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a > an >> autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for > updates of >> other fields, and tables that large typically are for > appending/reading >> only. >> >> But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where > possible. >> >> /gustav From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 8 09:53:48 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 16:53:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] PITA and temporal database (was: Access and SQL Server) Message-ID: Hi John It is even worse - if you consider referential integrity. If so, you have to record the object itself as the first and then, in separate table(s), any attribute that may change over time. Thus, for example for a customer table, as everything can change except the registration number (VAT or whatever), your main table may end up containing only this and the Id, while the name of the company, address, and phone number, etc. must be kept in one or more child tables. However, it may not turn out that labourious. Think about it: How often do you need all info of a customer? But you are right. Even though this is an extremely powerful storing method, the client still has to pay. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 08-03-2011 15:49 >>> While this is a nice idea, and perhaps critical somewhere, I cannot see it being usable in most environments. I have a claim table with 50 or 100 fields and I am going to store all of that again because a single date in one field is changed? In an ideal world without real world constraints, go for it. However we are replacing natural keys with surrogates because of issues with storing just a handful of fields "over again" and the negative impacts on speed and storage requirements that natural keys bring. If I were going to do a temporal kind of db I would go with a "normalized" solution where I stored just the PKID of the record changing, name of the field (or ID of the field) the "old" field data, and the change time. Then you end up with a "change log" concept. All of which demands intense analysis to determine where the change log becomes less efficient than storing the whole record. One way or the other (in my experience), very few clients are willing to pay for this kind of thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/8/2011 6:42 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > This is what you brought up 4? years ago: > > --- >>>> artful at rogers.com 2006-11-22 13:14:50>>> > > There is a whole other subject on this, about which I have written, but > I googled it and it didn't come up, so perhaps I wrote it and forgot to > sell it to somebody. The gist is this: it's called PITA, which doesn't > mean pain in the arse, but rather Point In Time Architecture. Without > PITA, the central problem with relational databases is that they don't > provide an instant "roll back to August 1" capability. With PITA, they > do. It's not all that complicated, but it does require a detailed > walk-through so you can understand all the implications, the most > critical of which is, "Nothing is ever updated. An updated row is > actually replaced, and the updated row's EndDate column is updated to > reflect the datetime on which the row was "changed". Thus it becomes > possible to issue a query that reflects the state of the database on > August 1, 2005. Obviously this increases the size of the db > significantly, but in certain environments (such as medical), this is > critical -- who was JWC's physician on that date, and what tests were > performed, and by which medicos, and so on. > > So. Today's job is to dig out that PITA article and pitch it to > somebody. > --- > > Somehow you must have succeeded because your writing can found here, > dated 2007-02-22: > > http://www.simple-talk.com/sql/database-administration/database-design-a-point-in-time-architecture/ > > As I wrote back also on 2006-11-22, what you describe is a temporal > database or - more precise - a bitemporal: > > > In the literature, two time lines of interest have been mentioned, > transaction time and valid time. The valid time line represents when a > fact is valid in modelled world (i.e. when it was believed) and the > transaction time line represents when a transaction was performed. A > bitemporal database is a combination of valid time and transaction time > databases where these two time lines are considered to be orthogonal. > (Snodgrass& Ahn 1986) > > > This is a fascinating area, and your article describes nicely how - > using SQL Server - to deal with some of the issues for a practical > implementation of this theory (from 1986). > > However, I miss the connection to your eggs. > > To me, the collection of eggs describes rather a batch: A given > population of 200 hens produce each day a collected batch of eggs which > perhaps are stamped with a producer id and batch id but at least packed > with other eggs from the same batch only. The batch id is written on the > package. > This way a bad egg at the consumer can be tracked back to the package, > the producer, the date, the packing machine, the population of hens, and > - perhaps - the possible bags of corn (or whatever) used to feed these > hens. > You will record all associated data in a write-once/read-many database, > but as you by definition never will change or correct these data, I see > no scenario for a temporal or PITA database, it's more like a log file. > The only date field needed here is the packing date. > > And how about the autonumber and the index maintenance Jim brought up? > > /gustav > > >>>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 08-03-2011 01:00>>> > Let us distinguish two problems: > > The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays > several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an arbitrary-numbered > case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid which > eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level of > detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and potentially > life-saving. > > The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or windshield or > manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike the > aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift and a > line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. > > Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which attributes we > choose to model. > > IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number problem, > but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, this > latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time > Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my piece at > Red Gate's site). > > Arthur From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Tue Mar 8 10:09:06 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 08:09:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Nested Sub Querys Message-ID: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All As Dan said OMG how much don't I know. When fooling around with SQL Server I found you could next multiple subquerys in the pass- through SQL string. I tried the same logic with Access and sure enough it works. And "Duh" did some research and it has been there all along. Sure speeds things up when you are dealing with very large tables of data. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 8 12:44:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 13:44:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Nested Sub Querys In-Reply-To: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D767925.6010904@colbyconsulting.com> Are you talking about WHERE PK in (SELECT PK FROM SomeOtherSet) kind of thing? I am using that a ton in SQL Server. It turns non-updateable queries (joined to something else) into updateable queries. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/8/2011 11:09 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > As Dan said OMG how much don't I know. > When fooling around with SQL Server I found you could next multiple subquerys in the pass- through > SQL string. I tried the same logic with Access and sure enough it works. And "Duh" did some research > and it has been there all along. Sure speeds things up when you are dealing with very large tables > of data. From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 13:12:19 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 11:12:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view Message-ID: I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting from one table. The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the role at the table level. The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. Any ideas? From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 13:28:48 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 13:28:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Message-ID: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 8 14:51:13 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 07:51:13 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 8 15:01:30 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 08:01:30 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 15:23:53 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 15:23:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> Are you talking about the entire suite or just the Total Access Analyzer? JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 8 15:40:48 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 00:40:48 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- Just put that fields' and tables' names into square brackets wherever you'll be referencing them. But if you have time and there are not that much places to rename that fields and tables - do renaming. The issues when that fields' and tables' names are not put into square brackets could be (query) compilation errors as well as "strange behavior" of MS Access including GPF-ing... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 8 ????? 2011 ?. 22:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 16:13:43 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:13:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4d76aa19.0d44970a.0fdc.ffffb9e5@mx.google.com> Shamil, I have done some renaming, but it seems to be a waste of time if "it works" without too many issues. Thanks, JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Hi Jim -- Just put that fields' and tables' names into square brackets wherever you'll be referencing them. But if you have time and there are not that much places to rename that fields and tables - do renaming. The issues when that fields' and tables' names are not put into square brackets could be (query) compilation errors as well as "strange behavior" of MS Access including GPF-ing... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 8 ????? 2011 ?. 22:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 8 16:41:35 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 01:41:35 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d76aa19.0d44970a.0fdc.ffffb9e5@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> <4d76aa19.0d44970a.0fdc.ffffb9e5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <928F9161DE3046D79BE2EDB1EBC6B590@nant> Jim -- Yes, it will work - just when you'll find some "strange" MS Access behaviour - first of all check for reserved words used which are not put into square brackets. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 9 ????? 2011 ?. 1:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Shamil, I have done some renaming, but it seems to be a waste of time if "it works" without too many issues. Thanks, JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Hi Jim -- Just put that fields' and tables' names into square brackets wherever you'll be referencing them. But if you have time and there are not that much places to rename that fields and tables - do renaming. The issues when that fields' and tables' names are not put into square brackets could be (query) compilation errors as well as "strange behavior" of MS Access including GPF-ing... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 8 ????? 2011 ?. 22:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue Mar 8 17:29:39 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 00:29:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you can give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the table. If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view then the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit privileges on the table itself. That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all objects in the database. Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting from one table. The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the role at the table level. The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. Any ideas? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Tue Mar 8 12:59:17 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 10:59:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Nested Sub Querys In-Reply-To: <4D767925.6010904@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D767925.6010904@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D767C85.60208@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John No I am talking about nested subquerys where You can do the original query on a join for example and do your calculations Then drill down with other subsequent subquerys to produce your final results Pretty cool. jwcolby wrote: > Are you talking about > > WHERE PK in (SELECT PK FROM SomeOtherSet) > > kind of thing? I am using that a ton in SQL Server. It turns > non-updateable queries (joined to something else) into updateable > queries. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/8/2011 11:09 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > >> Hey All >> As Dan said OMG how much don't I know. >> When fooling around with SQL Server I found you could next multiple >> subquerys in the pass- through >> SQL string. I tried the same logic with Access and sure enough it >> works. And "Duh" did some research >> and it has been there all along. Sure speeds things up when you are >> dealing with very large tables >> of data. > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 17:45:04 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 15:45:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They got it going using CREATE VIEW vwViewName WITH VIEW_METADATA AS ... On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > David, > Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". > If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you can > give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the table. > If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view then > the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit privileges > on the table itself. > That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all > objects in the database. > Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql > Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: > EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view > > I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. > > In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting > from one table. > > The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the > role at the table level. > > The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? > > I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. > > > Any ideas? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 8 18:24:47 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 11:24:47 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Total Access Analyzer ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Are you talking about the entire suite or just the Total Access Analyzer? JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue Mar 8 18:34:25 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 01:34:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A6C4C87443F43DB90C674BE625E64CA@abpc> Fine. Haven't used this option so far - interesting, will remember it for future cases. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 9. marts 2011 00:45 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Can't update view They got it going using CREATE VIEW vwViewName WITH VIEW_METADATA AS ... On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > David, > Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". > If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you can > give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the table. > If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view then > the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit privileges > on the table itself. > That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all > objects in the database. > Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql > Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: > EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view > > I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. > > In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting > from one table. > > The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the > role at the table level. > > The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? > > I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. > > > Any ideas? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 18:51:34 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:51:34 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: <4A6C4C87443F43DB90C674BE625E64CA@abpc> References: <4A6C4C87443F43DB90C674BE625E64CA@abpc> Message-ID: It had me confused too. The other developer tends to not use PKs (or uses a lot of multi-natural key indexes) so I figured that's what it was. I was too swamped today to give it any more time than I did. He had the view bound form working by giving rights to the table, so it wasn't like he was down. I let him borrow my Susan & Martin book (as I like to call it) and showed him the part in the book for possible reasons. D On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > Fine. Haven't used this option so far - interesting, will remember it for > future cases. > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > Sendt: 9. marts 2011 00:45 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: Re: [AccessD] Can't update view > > They got it going using > > CREATE VIEW vwViewName WITH VIEW_METADATA AS ... > > > > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > > > David, > > Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". > > If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you > can > > give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the > table. > > If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view > then > > the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit > privileges > > on the table itself. > > That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all > > objects in the database. > > Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql > > Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: > > EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' > > > > Asger > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > > Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 > > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view > > > > I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. > > > > In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting > > from one table. > > > > The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the > > role at the table level. > > > > The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? > > > > I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into > this. > > > > > > Any ideas? > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Mar 8 19:24:04 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:24:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <001501cbddf8$ade44fc0$09acef40$@net> Based on the size of the system and the detailed level (3000+ suggestions !) of feedback provided, I'd say this was a good product without even having used it directly. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > ________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________ > ________________ > > > > Jim, > > I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It > looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that > maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can > do. Or it may not be... > > be interested to know more for a real user. > > cheers > darryl. From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 14:02:37 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:02:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 9 14:22:42 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 15:22:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> Jim, <> Couple of comments: 1. Domain functions are often slower, but not always. There was a very old Smart Access article with timings that showed in some cases that domain function could be faster then other methods. If in doubt, test. 2. There are custom procedures out on the net to replace the domain functions, which give more flexibility and typically the same speed. 3. Domain functions should never be used inside of a SQL statement (query). Reason being is that they cannot be optimized by the query parser. Your better off with a sub select (and after all, all a Domain function really is is an encapsulated SQL statement). Even better yet, use another query as a base "table" in your query and do a join on it. 4. Use them like they were intended to be used; places where a VBA expression is allowed but a SQL statement or recordset is not. Or with Dlookup, which is used to fetch one value; don't use it to fetch five different fields from the same record. Instead, open a recordset, find the record, and have all the fields available. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 03:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Mar 9 14:25:54 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:25:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Tools (was: Access Reserved words) Message-ID: <003501cbde98$37d0d7e0$a77287a0$@comcast.net> I've use the Analyzer many times - and it is good at catching many things. It does take some practice to learn how to go through the list of errors and long lists of suggestions. I also think that it's cost is well worth it - I have avoided problems that customers would have experienced. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 2:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 14:29:09 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:29:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> <796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> Message-ID: <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I'll review where I've used them and make adjustments as needed. Thanks again, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 2:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, <> Couple of comments: 1. Domain functions are often slower, but not always. There was a very old Smart Access article with timings that showed in some cases that domain function could be faster then other methods. If in doubt, test. 2. There are custom procedures out on the net to replace the domain functions, which give more flexibility and typically the same speed. 3. Domain functions should never be used inside of a SQL statement (query). Reason being is that they cannot be optimized by the query parser. Your better off with a sub select (and after all, all a Domain function really is is an encapsulated SQL statement). Even better yet, use another query as a base "table" in your query and do a join on it. 4. Use them like they were intended to be used; places where a VBA expression is allowed but a SQL statement or recordset is not. Or with Dlookup, which is used to fetch one value; don't use it to fetch five different fields from the same record. Instead, open a recordset, find the record, and have all the fields available. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 03:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Wed Mar 9 14:39:29 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:39:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Message-ID: Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Wed Mar 9 14:41:24 2011 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 15:41:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com><796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: If you want to do renaming, Rick Fishers Find and Replace will make it a breeze for ~$30 http://www.rickworld.com/products.html Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I'll review where I've used them and make adjustments as needed. Thanks again, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 2:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, <> Couple of comments: 1. Domain functions are often slower, but not always. There was a very old Smart Access article with timings that showed in some cases that domain function could be faster then other methods. If in doubt, test. 2. There are custom procedures out on the net to replace the domain functions, which give more flexibility and typically the same speed. 3. Domain functions should never be used inside of a SQL statement (query). Reason being is that they cannot be optimized by the query parser. Your better off with a sub select (and after all, all a Domain function really is is an encapsulated SQL statement). Even better yet, use another query as a base "table" in your query and do a join on it. 4. Use them like they were intended to be used; places where a VBA expression is allowed but a SQL statement or recordset is not. Or with Dlookup, which is used to fetch one value; don't use it to fetch five different fields from the same record. Instead, open a recordset, find the record, and have all the fields available. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 03:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael at mattysconsulting.com Wed Mar 9 15:08:53 2011 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 16:08:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Wed Mar 9 15:32:19 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 15:32:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> References: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> Message-ID: Michael, It could be but not sure how to do it. We have reports built to print one job, range of jobs, or all jobs. These reports drag data from multiple sources. We built a query to get the current jobs worked on and do a report in "pdf" and output to a file. Then we go get the next number and do it again. However if we could run the all jobs report and then print each page to a "pdf" to file it should save a lot of time. We are trying to go a little greener by filing on the server and not print to paper each page. This also allows all the engineers we have to go and view any job they want. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael at mattysconsulting.com Wed Mar 9 15:45:19 2011 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 16:45:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: References: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> Message-ID: <44833D0DAA8B44F8A9382DD9A7976043@Gateway> Steve, I think I'd use a recordset to get all relevant JobIDs and loop through them while altering the AllJobs querydef to change the parameter for JobID. Not sure, though, sounds like you have 'mitigating circumstances.' Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 4:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Michael, It could be but not sure how to do it. We have reports built to print one job, range of jobs, or all jobs. These reports drag data from multiple sources. We built a query to get the current jobs worked on and do a report in "pdf" and output to a file. Then we go get the next number and do it again. However if we could run the all jobs report and then print each page to a "pdf" to file it should save a lot of time. We are trying to go a little greener by filing on the server and not print to paper each page. This also allows all the engineers we have to go and view any job they want. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Mar 9 22:46:30 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 23:46:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com><796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000501cbdede$2065a770$6130f650$@net> I concur...I bot it and it's been great. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words > > If you want to do renaming, Rick Fishers Find and Replace will make it > a > breeze for ~$30 > http://www.rickworld.com/products.html > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us From sturner at mseco.com Thu Mar 10 09:12:49 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 09:12:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: <44833D0DAA8B44F8A9382DD9A7976043@Gateway> References: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> <44833D0DAA8B44F8A9382DD9A7976043@Gateway> Message-ID: Michael, Thanks for the help. I didn't write the code but my boss did. However after thinking about it and how many records it was accessing well over 600.000 and the query output around 800, I figured that it would be a lot faster to write the all report data to a table and have his save code access that data to write to a file. Accessing the small file seems instantaneous to get a report. This should dramatically speed up the process. First time he ran his code it took over an hour and a half to process the way he was doing it. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Steve, I think I'd use a recordset to get all relevant JobIDs and loop through them while altering the AllJobs querydef to change the parameter for JobID. Not sure, though, sounds like you have 'mitigating circumstances.' Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 4:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Michael, It could be but not sure how to do it. We have reports built to print one job, range of jobs, or all jobs. These reports drag data from multiple sources. We built a query to get the current jobs worked on and do a report in "pdf" and output to a file. Then we go get the next number and do it again. However if we could run the all jobs report and then print each page to a "pdf" to file it should save a lot of time. We are trying to go a little greener by filing on the server and not print to paper each page. This also allows all the engineers we have to go and view any job they want. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 10 10:29:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 11:29:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database Message-ID: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two projects. I want to leave the existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved out, debugged and running and in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along the baggage of the old revisions into the new database. How do I go about this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jedi at charm.net Thu Mar 10 11:49:52 2011 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 12:49:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database In-Reply-To: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> How about GET what you need and create a new project. Mike > I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two > projects. I want to leave the > existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved out, > debugged and running and > in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along the > baggage of the old > revisions into the new database. > > How do I go about this? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 10 12:20:08 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:20:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database In-Reply-To: <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4D791658.90109@colbyconsulting.com> > How about GET what you need and create a new project. Uhhh... (scratches head???) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/10/2011 12:49 PM, Michael Bahr wrote: > How about GET what you need and create a new project. > > Mike > >> I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two >> projects. I want to leave the >> existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved out, >> debugged and running and >> in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along the >> baggage of the old >> revisions into the new database. >> >> How do I go about this? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Mar 10 15:20:29 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:20:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From cjlabs at att.net Thu Mar 10 15:29:38 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:29:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and 2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time to find out what is different. These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" "mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work as they should in 2007. Carolyn Johnson St Louis, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Thu Mar 10 15:38:03 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:38:03 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> Message-ID: <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 10 15:41:27 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:41:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: I would like to be able to obtain the names on all TABs on a Form so that I can work with these names in VBA (Access 2007). Thanks for your help, Brad From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 10 15:54:29 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:54:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machine and access 2010 Message-ID: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 10 16:00:05 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:00:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: Tab controls have a Pages property, one Page per tab. so you can find out how many tabs with MsgBox "Number of pages in TabCtl1:" & TabCtl1.Pages.Count And you can access the actual tab with TabCtl11.Pages(n) Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? I would like to be able to obtain the names on all TABs on a Form so that I can work with these names in VBA (Access 2007). Thanks for your help, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Thu Mar 10 16:40:34 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 16:40:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property On Error Resume Next CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue If Err.Number = 3270 Then Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp End If End Sub I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather than boolean values. Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do list. Guess I'll cross it off! Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 10 16:58:07 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 01:58:07 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> Message-ID: <3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 10 17:04:09 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:04:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? Thanks! References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: Lambert, Thanks for the help, I appreciate it. I have things working now with your assistance. Thanks again, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? Tab controls have a Pages property, one Page per tab. so you can find out how many tabs with MsgBox "Number of pages in TabCtl1:" & TabCtl1.Pages.Count And you can access the actual tab with TabCtl11.Pages(n) Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? I would like to be able to obtain the names on all TABs on a Form so that I can work with these names in VBA (Access 2007). Thanks for your help, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 10 17:29:26 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:29:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> <3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> Message-ID: <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 10 17:46:49 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:46:49 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Message-ID: <4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I use a more generic Function where you pass the property type as well: SetProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Public Function SetProperty(strPropName As String, _ varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_SetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_SetProperty: Exit Function Err_SetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else SetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_SetProperty End If End Function On 10 Mar 2011 at 16:40, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As > Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property > > On Error Resume Next > > CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue > If Err.Number = 3270 Then > Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) > CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp > End If > > End Sub > > > I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather > than boolean values. > > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 10 17:51:52 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 02:51:52 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net><3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> Hello Doug -- Is your source development PC 32 bit? I didn't try to solve the issue in details but for 64bit PC I do strictly setup custom .NET apps into C:\MyPrograms folder (you can call the target custom folder differently of course). Also for .NET code, which uses MS Access databases and compiled on 32bit systems and then setup and used on 64bit systems there should be the following command line applied: CorFlags.exe /32BIT+ MyDotNetUtils.dll CorFlags.exe can be found in WIndows 7 SDK AFAIKR. Be careful with applying corflags.exe for signed assemblies - I do use unsigned assemblies to simplify corflags.exe application to my custom .net apps and DLLs. <<< I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? >>> Not sure what you're asking here or I'd better write not sure if I'm answering your question: - my sample was a part/command line of .bat file I used - so it was fullpath or full command line not shortcut. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. CorFlags.exe /? Microsoft (R) .NET Framework CorFlags Conversion Tool. Version 3.5.30729.1 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Usage: Corflags.exe Assembly [options] If no options are specified, the flags for the given image are displayed. Options: /ILONLY+ /ILONLY- Sets/clears the ILONLY flag /32BIT+ /32BIT- Sets/clears the 32BIT flag /UpgradeCLRHeader Upgrade the CLR Header to version 2.5 /RevertCLRHeader Revert the CLR Header to version 2.0 /Force Force an assembly update even if the image is strong name signed. WARNING: Updating a strong name signed assembly will require the assembly to be resigned before it will execute properly. /nologo Prevents corflags from displaying logo /? or /help Display this usage message -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 2:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From member at linkedin.com Thu Mar 10 18:33:00 2011 From: member at linkedin.com (Janet Erbach via LinkedIn) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 00:33:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AccessD] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <388117698.4424825.1299803580238.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed40.prod> LinkedIn ------------Janet Erbach requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Doris, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Janet Accept invitation from Janet Erbach http://www.linkedin.com/e/s2e3k1-gl4dhpai-2e/GJGqr_Xcuww-eupoeCwqfm8l9PqY0AZwZCdqO6vpjBw/blk/I2680468753_2/1BpC5vrmRLoRZcjkkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYOnPcRdPwSd30Udz99bP5CqCB4q4hJbPoPdjARd3cUd38LrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ View invitation from Janet Erbach http://www.linkedin.com/e/s2e3k1-gl4dhpai-2e/GJGqr_Xcuww-eupoeCwqfm8l9PqY0AZwZCdqO6vpjBw/blk/I2680468753_2/39vcPkTe3oQc3wScAALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ ------------------------------------------ DID YOU KNOW you can showcase your professional knowledge on LinkedIn to receive job/consulting offers and enhance your professional reputation? Posting replies to questions on LinkedIn Answers puts you in front of the world's professional community. http://www.linkedin.com/e/s2e3k1-gl4dhpai-2e/abq/inv-24/ -- (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 11 08:26:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:26:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SVN - removing all version control for a directory and all files underneath Message-ID: <4D7A30FE.8050500@colbyconsulting.com> I am trying to copy a solution to a new location, strip all version control from it, delete a ton of projects within that solution and then version control the new solution. I copied the entire solution from my laptop to a VM and under my user / projects there. The copy still appears to be under version control. I looked in help and it says to copy the directory to itself using the vsn right click menu. I did that and it removed the vsn green checkmark from the top level directory (the solution) but left the check mark on all of the subdirectories (projects and stuff). Does anyone have a clue how to completely and entirely remove a directory from version control - remove all green check marks from every subdirectory etc.? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 11 08:59:23 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:59:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-SQLServer] SVN - removing all version control for a directory and all files underneath In-Reply-To: <4D7A30FE.8050500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7A30FE.8050500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7A38CB.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> As it turns out, doing the "export to same directory" seems to actually "unregister" the directory from source control. It leaves the green check marks in explorer - not sure what that means. However if I go into the solution itself, it no longer has the version control dots next to the items in the solution explorer. So it appears to have removed that local copy of the solution from source control. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/11/2011 9:26 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I am trying to copy a solution to a new location, strip all version control from it, delete a ton of > projects within that solution and then version control the new solution. > > I copied the entire solution from my laptop to a VM and under my user / projects there. The copy > still appears to be under version control. I looked in help and it says to copy the directory to > itself using the vsn right click menu. I did that and it removed the vsn green checkmark from the > top level directory (the solution) but left the check mark on all of the subdirectories (projects > and stuff). > > Does anyone have a clue how to completely and entirely remove a directory from version control - > remove all green check marks from every subdirectory etc.? From jedi at charm.net Fri Mar 11 11:44:39 2011 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:44:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database In-Reply-To: <4D791658.90109@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4D791658.90109@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3875.24.35.23.165.1299865479.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> GET is the common action term in SCM (Software Configuration Management) land to "copy" the files from the repository onto your computer. Then create a new project and add those files to the project. Mike > > How about GET what you need and create a new project. > > Uhhh... (scratches head???) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/10/2011 12:49 PM, Michael Bahr wrote: >> How about GET what you need and create a new project. >> >> Mike >> >>> I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two >>> projects. I want to leave the >>> existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved >>> out, >>> debugged and running and >>> in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along >>> the >>> baggage of the old >>> revisions into the new database. >>> >>> How do I go about this? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Sun Mar 13 10:20:31 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 07:20:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box Message-ID: <4D7CE0BF.7020105@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All I have a test form with 2 list boxes, select an item in ListBox1 and it requerys ListBox2 and displays the results. No linked tables, not working with SQL Server, and no network connection. ListBox2 rowsource is a Query with where matrix=FndMyMatrix() Requery in ListBox1 AfterUpdate. Now most of the time if I arrow up and down in the ListBox1, ListBox2 is requeryed and quickly displays the result. But sometimes when I open the form and Arrow down to Item 2 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 3 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 4 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow up Item 4 to Item 1 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down Item 1 to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down to Item 6 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery Arrow down to Item 7 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery And so on. ListBox1 displays 20 items at a time. Sometimes I can quickly arrow down to the 20th item, but when I arrow down to Item 21, ListBox2 is slow to requery and so on. This action is erractic, 99.9% of the time I have no problem opening the form and quickly arrowing up and down ListBox1, then out blue the above activity occurs. Because it is erratic it is making it kind of hard to trap for. Anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing this? Please don't tell me to tell my client not to use the arrow keys. I have decompiled and copied the mdb. Thanks From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 13 11:03:20 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:03:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box Message-ID: <20110313090320.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.88fe5eef65.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> WAG - try the scroll trick: In the open event of the form dim x as Variant x=Me.Listbox1.ListCount May not make a difference but it's a 30 second test. And how about requerying listbox 2 after the user makes a choice ? Is making Listbox1 a combo box with an after update event where you could put the listbox 2 requery an option? Rocky -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box From: Tony Septav Date: Sun, March 13, 2011 8:20 am To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Hey All I have a test form with 2 list boxes, select an item in ListBox1 and it requerys ListBox2 and displays the results. No linked tables, not working with SQL Server, and no network connection. ListBox2 rowsource is a Query with where matrix=FndMyMatrix() Requery in ListBox1 AfterUpdate. Now most of the time if I arrow up and down in the ListBox1, ListBox2 is requeryed and quickly displays the result. But sometimes when I open the form and Arrow down to Item 2 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 3 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 4 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow up Item 4 to Item 1 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down Item 1 to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down to Item 6 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery Arrow down to Item 7 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery And so on. ListBox1 displays 20 items at a time. Sometimes I can quickly arrow down to the 20th item, but when I arrow down to Item 21, ListBox2 is slow to requery and so on. This action is erractic, 99.9% of the time I have no problem opening the form and quickly arrowing up and down ListBox1, then out blue the above activity occurs. Because it is erratic it is making it kind of hard to trap for. Anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing this? Please don't tell me to tell my client not to use the arrow keys. I have decompiled and copied the mdb. Thanks -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Sun Mar 13 12:25:05 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:25:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box In-Reply-To: <20110313090320.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.88fe5eef65.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20110313090320.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.88fe5eef65.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <4D7CFDF1.1030501@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey Rocky Thanks Next time this weird thing occurs I will try the ListCount, may just do the job. Basically the ListBox2 is requeryed on AfterUpdate of ListBox1. It is just that because this weird thing happens out of the blue, that it has me baffled as to why/what causes it??? rockysmolin at bchacc.com wrote: >WAG - try the scroll trick: > >In the open event of the form > >dim x as Variant >x=Me.Listbox1.ListCount > >May not make a difference but it's a 30 second test. > >And how about requerying listbox 2 after the user makes a choice ? Is >making Listbox1 a combo box with an after update event where you could >put the listbox 2 requery an option? > > >Rocky > >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box >From: Tony Septav >Date: Sun, March 13, 2011 8:20 am >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >Hey All >I have a test form with 2 list boxes, select an item in ListBox1 and it >requerys ListBox2 and displays the results. > >No linked tables, not working with SQL Server, and no network >connection. > >ListBox2 rowsource is a Query with where matrix=FndMyMatrix() >Requery in ListBox1 AfterUpdate. > >Now most of the time if I arrow up and down in the ListBox1, ListBox2 >is requeryed and quickly displays the result. But sometimes when I open >the form and >Arrow down to Item 2 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow down to Item 3 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow down to Item 4 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow down to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow up Item 4 to Item 1 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. >Arrow down Item 1 to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. >Arrow down to Item 6 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery >Arrow down to Item 7 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery >And so on. > >ListBox1 displays 20 items at a time. >Sometimes I can quickly arrow down to the 20th item, but when I arrow >down to Item 21, ListBox2 is slow to requery and so on. > >This action is erractic, 99.9% of the time I have no problem opening >the form and quickly arrowing up and down ListBox1, then out blue the >above activity occurs. Because it is erratic it is making it kind of >hard to trap for. Anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing >this? Please don't tell me to tell my client not to use the arrow keys. > >I have decompiled and copied the mdb. > >Thanks > > > From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun Mar 13 15:22:36 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 13:22:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net><3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> <0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> Message-ID: <000001cbe1bc$64b277b0$2e176710$@cox.net> Hello Shamil, Using the correct version of regasm did the trick. Thank you for your help. I may need to look at CorFlags if we ever move this to a 64 bit machine. Nice to know it is available. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Doug -- Is your source development PC 32 bit? I didn't try to solve the issue in details but for 64bit PC I do strictly setup custom .NET apps into C:\MyPrograms folder (you can call the target custom folder differently of course). Also for .NET code, which uses MS Access databases and compiled on 32bit systems and then setup and used on 64bit systems there should be the following command line applied: CorFlags.exe /32BIT+ MyDotNetUtils.dll CorFlags.exe can be found in WIndows 7 SDK AFAIKR. Be careful with applying corflags.exe for signed assemblies - I do use unsigned assemblies to simplify corflags.exe application to my custom .net apps and DLLs. <<< I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? >>> Not sure what you're asking here or I'd better write not sure if I'm answering your question: - my sample was a part/command line of .bat file I used - so it was fullpath or full command line not shortcut. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. CorFlags.exe /? Microsoft (R) .NET Framework CorFlags Conversion Tool. Version 3.5.30729.1 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Usage: Corflags.exe Assembly [options] If no options are specified, the flags for the given image are displayed. Options: /ILONLY+ /ILONLY- Sets/clears the ILONLY flag /32BIT+ /32BIT- Sets/clears the 32BIT flag /UpgradeCLRHeader Upgrade the CLR Header to version 2.5 /RevertCLRHeader Revert the CLR Header to version 2.0 /Force Force an assembly update even if the image is strong name signed. WARNING: Updating a strong name signed assembly will require the assembly to be resigned before it will execute properly. /nologo Prevents corflags from displaying logo /? or /help Display this usage message -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 2:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sun Mar 13 15:43:01 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 23:43:01 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll ona windows7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <000001cbe1bc$64b277b0$2e176710$@cox.net> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net><3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net><0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> <000001cbe1bc$64b277b0$2e176710$@cox.net> Message-ID: <9C53771FC0064F54B25FE225D9279938@nant> Hello Doug -- Good to know it worked there finally. Yes, Corflags helps me to develop .NET applications/web services on 32-bit system and to deliver that apps for a customer who has 64bit system... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 13 ????? 2011 ?. 23:23 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll ona windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Using the correct version of regasm did the trick. Thank you for your help. I may need to look at CorFlags if we ever move this to a 64 bit machine. Nice to know it is available. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Doug -- Is your source development PC 32 bit? I didn't try to solve the issue in details but for 64bit PC I do strictly setup custom .NET apps into C:\MyPrograms folder (you can call the target custom folder differently of course). Also for .NET code, which uses MS Access databases and compiled on 32bit systems and then setup and used on 64bit systems there should be the following command line applied: CorFlags.exe /32BIT+ MyDotNetUtils.dll CorFlags.exe can be found in WIndows 7 SDK AFAIKR. Be careful with applying corflags.exe for signed assemblies - I do use unsigned assemblies to simplify corflags.exe application to my custom .net apps and DLLs. <<< I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? >>> Not sure what you're asking here or I'd better write not sure if I'm answering your question: - my sample was a part/command line of .bat file I used - so it was fullpath or full command line not shortcut. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. CorFlags.exe /? Microsoft (R) .NET Framework CorFlags Conversion Tool. Version 3.5.30729.1 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Usage: Corflags.exe Assembly [options] If no options are specified, the flags for the given image are displayed. Options: /ILONLY+ /ILONLY- Sets/clears the ILONLY flag /32BIT+ /32BIT- Sets/clears the 32BIT flag /UpgradeCLRHeader Upgrade the CLR Header to version 2.5 /RevertCLRHeader Revert the CLR Header to version 2.0 /Force Force an assembly update even if the image is strong name signed. WARNING: Updating a strong name signed assembly will require the assembly to be resigned before it will execute properly. /nologo Prevents corflags from displaying logo /? or /help Display this usage message -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 2:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun Mar 13 16:33:58 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 14:33:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Message-ID: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Mar 13 16:41:58 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 16:41:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> References: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> Message-ID: <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun Mar 13 16:46:44 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 14:46:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> References: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000a01cbe1c8$2563aff0$702b0fd0$@cox.net> Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 13 21:58:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 22:58:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) Message-ID: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install it. I had a Windows 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I installed the runtime. I got the directory path declared a safe location and voila, the application ran. Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a friend's (rather old) XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine which it appears that I wiped and installed XP on some time ago. I installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then installed the runtime there and tried to run. No go. Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I built a little test version with just a single table and an autoform which automatically opened when the app opened. It actually reported that it couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). So I started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by SQL Server as it installs. However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out there for download. I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and ran a network cable so it is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to my network via my wireless and it runs. So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which makes sense since this is SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL driver to be part of the Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow me to hook up to the sql server instance. So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the sqlncli.msi installer installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, hitting the sql server over the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). And it works on this machine of mine. Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine (also running XP but on 512 megs of ram) and ensure that will run. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun Mar 13 22:21:52 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:21:52 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) In-Reply-To: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <021101cbe1f6$f7f23080$e7d69180$@activebilling.com.au> Hi John I'd be interested to know performance/speeds etc Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 14 March 2011 1:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install it. I had a Windows 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I installed the runtime. I got the directory path declared a safe location and voila, the application ran. Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a friend's (rather old) XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine which it appears that I wiped and installed XP on some time ago. I installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then installed the runtime there and tried to run. No go. Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I built a little test version with just a single table and an autoform which automatically opened when the app opened. It actually reported that it couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). So I started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by SQL Server as it installs. However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out there for download. I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and ran a network cable so it is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to my network via my wireless and it runs. So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which makes sense since this is SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL driver to be part of the Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow me to hook up to the sql server instance. So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the sqlncli.msi installer installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, hitting the sql server over the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). And it works on this machine of mine. Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine (also running XP but on 512 megs of ram) and ensure that will run. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 13 22:27:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 23:27:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) In-Reply-To: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7D8B31.4080405@colbyconsulting.com> And it runs on the friend's old machine as well. It feels like I might be working now. I have to say this has been one of the most complex jobs I have taken on, with Hamachi VPN networks, a virtual machine running the sql server database, and then the client machine running Hamachi and an Access 2007 runtime. Safe zones, sql server drivers not installed. It has been a challenge getting this running. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/13/2011 10:58 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install it. I had a Windows > 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I installed the runtime. I > got the directory path declared a safe location and voila, the application ran. > > Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a friend's (rather old) > XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine which it appears that I wiped and installed XP > on some time ago. I installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then installed the > runtime there and tried to run. No go. > > Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I built a little test version > with just a single table and an autoform which automatically opened when the app opened. It actually > reported that it couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). So I > started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by SQL Server as it installs. > However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out there for download. > > I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and ran a network cable so it > is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to > my network via my wireless and it runs. > > So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which makes sense since this is > SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL > driver to be part of the Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. > > It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow me to hook up to the sql > server instance. > > So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the sqlncli.msi installer > installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, > hitting the sql server over the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). > > And it works on this machine of mine. > > Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine (also running XP but on 512 > megs of ram) and ensure that will run. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 07:48:12 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 08:48:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Simultaneous edits to ADO Message-ID: <4D7E0E8C.5080006@colbyconsulting.com> We have discussed questions regarding what happens when a form is bound to sql server via ado and two people edit the same record. I tested that this morning. 1) The edit symbol is only sporadically supported. Sometimes the symbol appears, sometimes not. I haven't discovered a pattern yet. 2) if two people try to edit the same record, the first to save does so with no error message, each additional save gets the "the record has changed" message and is offered the ability to save to a text file or the paste buffer. The button to overwrite is grayed out. 3) The second person to save gets the message even if they are not editing the same field. IOW it is detected at the record level. My guess is that this is the same behavior that you would get unbound using ADO. IOW it is up to you to trap the error and do something with it. since I use a framework I will be adding code to trap this error and attempt to discover if the second user is editing a different field. If so I may just save the edit with or without warning. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 07:53:57 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 08:53:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) In-Reply-To: <021101cbe1f6$f7f23080$e7d69180$@activebilling.com.au> References: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> <021101cbe1f6$f7f23080$e7d69180$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4D7E0FE5.6070808@colbyconsulting.com> I'm not sure how to test this in a meaningful way. I will be doing an install of this application on a system with varying connect speed. It is a PC running on a cellular link pretty far from a cell tower. It is roughly DSL speed at its best, but much less at its worst. I will post results from that system. I think I will have the framework log the time to open forms so that i can get a feel for the user experience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/13/2011 11:21 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi John > > I'd be interested to know performance/speeds etc > > Darren > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, 14 March 2011 1:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) > > I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install > it. I had a Windows > 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I > installed the runtime. I got the directory path declared a safe location > and voila, the application ran. > > Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a > friend's (rather old) XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine > which it appears that I wiped and installed XP on some time ago. I > installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then > installed the runtime there and tried to run. No go. > > Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I > built a little test version with just a single table and an autoform which > automatically opened when the app opened. It actually reported that it > couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). > So I started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by > SQL Server as it installs. However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out > there for download. > > I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and > ran a network cable so it is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I > then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to my network via my > wireless and it runs. > > So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which > makes sense since this is SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting > to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL driver to be part of the > Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. > > It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow > me to hook up to the sql server instance. > > So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the > sqlncli.msi installer installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the > Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, hitting the sql server over > the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). > > And it works on this machine of mine. > > Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine > (also running XP but on 512 megs of ram) and ensure that will run. > > From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Mar 14 13:05:49 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 13:05:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709091@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I know I should know this but cannot seem to recall it now. How do I put the two parts together? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property On Error Resume Next CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue If Err.Number = 3270 Then Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp End If End Sub I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather than boolean values. Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do list. Guess I'll cross it off! Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon Mar 14 13:10:54 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 13:10:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709091@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: I have a module with the 2 subs -- SetAppProperties and ChangeAppProperties. When my start up form opens, it calls SetAppProperties which uses ChangeAppProperties to set them the way I want (original post), which includes showing my own menu bars. Because some properties have boolean values and some have text values, you need to treat them differently. Stuart posted a sub that handles both. HTH, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I know I should know this but cannot seem to recall it now. How do I put the two parts together? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property On Error Resume Next CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue If Err.Number = 3270 Then Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp End If End Sub I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather than boolean values. Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do list. Guess I'll cross it off! Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 13:55:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:55:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox Message-ID: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Try this: Open firefox twice. Load different things in each. Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the other copy of firefox. Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance to the second instance. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon Mar 14 14:05:10 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:05:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Just like Google Chrome does. When did Mozilla catch up with Google? :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox Try this: Open firefox twice. Load different things in each. Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the other copy of firefox. Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance to the second instance. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 14:11:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 12:11:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: FireFox has done that for as long as I can remember. On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Heenan, Lambert < Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com> wrote: > Just like Google Chrome does. When did Mozilla catch up with Google? :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:56 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox > > Try this: > > Open firefox twice. > Load different things in each. > Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the > other copy of firefox. > Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second > copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance > to the second instance. > -- > John W. Colby > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 15:01:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:01:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7E7403.5010402@colbyconsulting.com> It never occurred to me to try it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/14/2011 3:11 PM, David McAfee wrote: > FireFox has done that for as long as I can remember. > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Heenan, Lambert< > Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com> wrote: > >> Just like Google Chrome does. When did Mozilla catch up with Google? :-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:56 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox >> >> Try this: >> >> Open firefox twice. >> Load different things in each. >> Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the >> other copy of firefox. >> Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second >> copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance >> to the second instance. >> -- >> John W. Colby >> From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Mon Mar 14 15:06:35 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 09:06:35 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: <4D7E7403.5010402@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7E7403.5010402@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9EF0178EA5594A1AA0084AEA2FE886B9@stevelaptop> ... until now. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:01 AM > It never occurred to me to try it. From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Mar 14 15:26:52 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:26:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709116@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I tried your code with the following settings and still see the ribbon and no custom toolbars. I have no custom menus. Am I missing some settings? Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) SetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "SACROC Surveillance" 'SetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "" SetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\OilBarrel24.ico" End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 5:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I use a more generic Function where you pass the property type as well: SetProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Public Function SetProperty(strPropName As String, _ varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_SetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_SetProperty: Exit Function Err_SetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else SetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_SetProperty End If End Function On 10 Mar 2011 at 16:40, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As > Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property > > On Error Resume Next > > CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue > If Err.Number = 3270 Then > Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) > CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp > End If > > End Sub > > > I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather > than boolean values. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon Mar 14 15:29:24 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:29:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell><4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709116@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: Try adding a default menu bar (eg File - Exit). Maybe that's the key. It would have your menu bar instead of the ribbon. I have custom menu bars and toolbars, and they both show with no ribbon. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I tried your code with the following settings and still see the ribbon and no custom toolbars. I have no custom menus. Am I missing some settings? Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) SetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "SACROC Surveillance" 'SetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "" SetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\OilBarrel24.ico" End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 5:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I use a more generic Function where you pass the property type as well: SetProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Public Function SetProperty(strPropName As String, _ varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_SetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_SetProperty: Exit Function Err_SetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else SetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_SetProperty End If End Function On 10 Mar 2011 at 16:40, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As > Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property > > On Error Resume Next > > CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue > If Err.Number = 3270 Then > Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) > CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp > End If > > End Sub > > > I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather > than boolean values. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Mar 14 18:30:17 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:30:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <000a01cbe1c8$2563aff0$702b0fd0$@cox.net> References: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> <000a01cbe1c8$2563aff0$702b0fd0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <000301cbe29f$c9900f10$5cb02d30$@cox.net> All, I am wondering if this is an Access 2010 to SQL Server 2008 thing. I have a test computer set up with Windows XP, Access 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005. The upsizing wizard works as advertised. When I try to upsize the test backend on my development computer Win 7/64, Access/32, and SQL Server 2008 R2 I get an message stating that "C:\Users\'\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Access\ACWZUSR12.ACCDU" isn't found or spelled correctly, but it is there, and the table list is empty in the wizard. I reinstalled the named file and it still I still get the message. The named file is the Access Wizard Add-in. It will open. I also tried this on a laptop with Win 7/32 with office 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005 and that worked. Seems to be something with SQL Server 2008 or the 64 bit version of Windows. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried the upsizing wizard in Access 2010 with SQL Server 2008? Not much in Google help for this one. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 15 02:41:08 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 07:41:08 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9661D@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Doug I will try it today if I get time later Martin Sent from my Windows Phone -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: 14 March 2011 23:35 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment All, I am wondering if this is an Access 2010 to SQL Server 2008 thing. I have a test computer set up with Windows XP, Access 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005. The upsizing wizard works as advertised. When I try to upsize the test backend on my development computer Win 7/64, Access/32, and SQL Server 2008 R2 I get an message stating that "C:\Users\'\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Access\ACWZUSR12.ACCDU" isn't found or spelled correctly, but it is there, and the table list is empty in the wizard. I reinstalled the named file and it still I still get the message. The named file is the Access Wizard Add-in. It will open. I also tried this on a laptop with Win 7/32 with office 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005 and that worked. Seems to be something with SQL Server 2008 or the 64 bit version of Windows. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried the upsizing wizard in Access 2010 with SQL Server 2008? Not much in Google help for this one. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue Mar 15 10:23:01 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 08:23:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9661D@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9661D@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <003c01cbe324$df2c95c0$9d85c140$@cox.net> Thank you Martin. That will be appreciated. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 12:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Doug I will try it today if I get time later Martin Sent from my Windows Phone -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: 14 March 2011 23:35 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment All, I am wondering if this is an Access 2010 to SQL Server 2008 thing. I have a test computer set up with Windows XP, Access 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005. The upsizing wizard works as advertised. When I try to upsize the test backend on my development computer Win 7/64, Access/32, and SQL Server 2008 R2 I get an message stating that "C:\Users\'\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Access\ACWZUSR12.ACCDU" isn't found or spelled correctly, but it is there, and the table list is empty in the wizard. I reinstalled the named file and it still I still get the message. The named file is the Access Wizard Add-in. It will open. I also tried this on a laptop with Win 7/32 with office 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005 and that worked. Seems to be something with SQL Server 2008 or the 64 bit version of Windows. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried the upsizing wizard in Access 2010 with SQL Server 2008? Not much in Google help for this one. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 15 15:44:22 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:44:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FYI Message-ID: <17F3E7E903E24B6CA5253BA915AAA070@XPS> FYI, VS 2010 SP1 is available for download and there has been a bunch of stuff released on Office 2010 development: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/gg549099.aspx Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 15 21:26:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 22:26:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime / SQL Server data project Message-ID: <4D801FD8.5020805@colbyconsulting.com> I went to the prison tonight to install the prison ministry database on a system there. Again the install looks like: 1) Install Hamachi and get it talking to the Hamachi server 2) Get Hamachi joined to the network for this specific project 3) Install the SQL Server native (ADO) driver using an MSI install package 4) Copy a directory structure with the database files - an application FE and my framework MDA 5) Run a little application which inserts registry stuff to make that directory a "safe location" 6) Run the application FE. This is moderately complicated by the fact that at this location the internet access is not "always on", but is a cellular (telephone) internet adapter on the end of a USB cable. So the user has to start the wireless adapter and get onto the internet, and then Hamachi has to log into the Hamachi server to get the point-to-point info to connect to my server. So we got the internet up, then I did 1 through 5 above. I have a test application which I try first which does *not* use my framework, but is just a simple form bound to one of the simplest tables on that SQL Server database. The test application opened and displayed the bound form just fine. It took me about 45 minutes to get to this point. When I double clicked on the real application file (mdb) it told me that the file that I just clicked on (the application MDB) could not be found. Say what??? I was a bit flustered by that but I went out to the applications folder and saw that Microsoft office had a folder so I drilled down into that and opened Access and ... it immediately (and without my asking) opened my application mdb that I had just been told couldn't be found. Say what??? So I closed it and went back to the application directory and double clicked the application mdb again and it opened, and continued to open without error after that. I created a shortcut to my MDB app on the desktop and opened it through that. The app is talking to SQL Server on my virtual machine server on my hardware at the office, over the internet - and a somewhat slow connection at that. I think the down link is about 380 kbit or some such. Anyway, I opened forms, entered some test data etc. It is working! It is not spectacularly fast but I have done zero optimizations to it. The main project form with a couple of regular bound subforms takes about 8-10 seconds to open. These same forms just snap open on the wi-fi at the local Arby's. So I will need to make sure that I use JIT subforms, and in the end I will probably have to go rework my framework to allow pulling a single record at a time for the main forms etc. Eventually I will use pass through queries to allow SQL Server to do the filtering and sorting of data. Stuff like that. But it works as is, lets me get something into their hands, and allows me to optimize once I have fleshed out the application itself. So there ya have it. Access runtime, using bound forms, on a too slow internet over an Hamachi software vpn to a virtual machine running Windows 2003 x86 with 4 gigs of memory running SQL Server 2008 Express x86. If that isn't "worst case" I don't know what is, not to mention a whole lot of esoteric technology pulled together to make one tiny little database work. ;) Having done that I have an immediate need for the exact same technology stack for two more projects. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 05:49:29 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 09:12:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:12:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQLOLEDB Message-ID: <4D80C557.1010606@colbyconsulting.com> Can I use an IP address as the data source property for the adodb connection? As I have discussed, I am hitting the SQL database over the internet using Hamachi. this morning I am researching how to bind forms to an ADO recordset. The first thing I have to do is establish a connection to the database as shown below. With cn .Provider = "Microsoft.Access.OLEDB.10.0" .Properties("Data Provider").Value = "SQLOLEDB" '.Properties("Data Source").Value = "5.203.167.79" .Properties("Data Source").Value = "VMDev\SQLExpress" .Properties("Initial Catalog").Value = cfw.mSVAppData("DbName") .Properties("User ID").Value = "XXX" .Properties("Password").Value = "YYY" .Open End With Using the ip address for the Data Source property throws an error on the .Open. Simply changing that to the hard coded database name allows the .Open. I changed to the following and it works! strCnn = "Data Source=" & cfw.mSVAppData("ServerIP") & ",1433;Network Library=DBMSSOCN;Initial Catalog=" & cfw.mSVAppData("DbName") & ";User ID=" & "XXX" & ";Password=" & "YYY" & ";" With cn .ConnectionString = strCnn .Provider = "Microsoft.Access.OLEDB.10.0" .Properties("Data Provider").Value = "SQLOLEDB" .Open End With End If I then used this to open a recordset as follows: Function ADORst(strSQL) As ADODB.Recordset Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo Err_ADORst mCnnInit 'Create an instance of the ADO Recordset class, and 'set its properties Set rs = New ADODB.Recordset With rs Set .ActiveConnection = cn .Source = strSQL .LockType = adLockOptimistic .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .Open End With Set ADORst = rs Exit_ADORst: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_ADORst: Select Case Err Case 0 '.insert Errors you wish to ignore here Resume Next Case Else '.All other errors will trap Beep LogErr Err.Number, Err.Description, Erl, cstrModule, "ADORst" Resume Exit_ADORst End Select Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function And then in the form itself (onOpen) I did this: set me.Recordset = ADORST("MySqlStatementHere") and voila, my form is bound to an ADODB recordset. This should make a huge difference to my applications, allowing SQL Server to do the work and just return the data. And *supposedly* in all Access versions above 2000 the form is read/write. Of course I now need to test under runtime. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 12:04:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 13:04:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error Message-ID: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> "Data provider could not be initialized". Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Wed Mar 16 13:04:39 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:04:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not configured properly" http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: Restart IIS Restart computer Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error "Data provider could not be initialized". Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 14:23:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 15:23:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Issues when using ADO Message-ID: <4D810E36.40204@colbyconsulting.com> Interesting set of "gotcha's" http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 14:36:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 15:36:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 2:04 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not configured properly" > > http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: > > Restart IIS > > Restart computer > > Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) > > Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > "Data provider could not be initialized". > > Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 16 15:22:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 13:22:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: It makes me wonder if you will have to go unbound on your series of applications? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 2:04 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not configured properly" > > http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: > > Restart IIS > > Restart computer > > Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) > > Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > "Data provider could not be initialized". > > Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From phpons at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 16:05:48 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 22:05:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to insert a tag into an invoice? Message-ID: Hi all, I have the following situation to deal with at one of my customers. They scan the invoices they receive, and store the file into the file system. When the invoice get paid, they want to insert a tag (kind of validation signature) into the electronic file of the invoice, before saving it into a different directory. How would you the tag insertion? Is it at least possible? Thanks in advance for your input. Philippe From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 16:24:35 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 17:24:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D812A93.7040300@colbyconsulting.com> Well, let me put it this way. Unbound means rewriting my framework. A thousand or so hours. For free projects. Hmm... Seems unlikely. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 4:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > It makes me wonder if you will have to go unbound on your series of > applications? > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:36 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. > > http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO > > It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. > It really appears that > when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are a host of issues with > the RecordsetClone (which > is DAO) and that perhaps recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support > the form. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 2:04 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the > database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the > ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not > configured properly" >> >> http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can > happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components > conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: >> >> Restart IIS >> >> Restart computer >> >> Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) >> >> Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" >> >> Lambert >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error >> >> "Data provider could not be initialized". >> >> Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the > internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From BradM at blackforestltd.com Wed Mar 16 16:27:32 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:27:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that might be useful. We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) in the Runtime environment. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 16:31:32 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:31:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the subform with ADO. Maybe I missed the post where you specified the code that was going sideways. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby wrote: > This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. > > http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO > > It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. > ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are > a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps > recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 16 16:43:53 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 07:43:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How to insert a tag into an invoice? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D812F19.32276.22CE9AD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> EXIF tags? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format You can insert tags from Access by Shelling to the commandline utility ExifUtils http://www.hugsan.com/EXIFutils/ There are lots of EXIF viewers available, incluindg Explorer - just right click on an suitable scanned image and select Properties/Details. You can also edit tags and comments in the same place - just hover over the Value area and you will see a box "Add tags" etc. On 16 Mar 2011 at 22:05, philippe pons wrote: > Hi all, > > > I have the following situation to deal with at one of my customers. > > They scan the invoices they receive, and store the file into the file > system. > > When the invoice get paid, they want to insert a tag (kind of > validation signature) into the electronic file of the invoice, before > saving it into a different directory. > > How would you the tag insertion? Is it at least possible? > > Thanks in advance for your input. > > Philippe > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From phpons at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 17:02:03 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 23:02:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to insert a tag into an invoice? In-Reply-To: <4D812F19.32276.22CE9AD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D812F19.32276.22CE9AD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Thank's Stuart, will test it asap. Philippe 2011/3/16 Stuart McLachlan > EXIF tags? > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format > > You can insert tags from Access by Shelling to the commandline utility > ExifUtils > http://www.hugsan.com/EXIFutils/ > > There are lots of EXIF viewers available, incluindg Explorer - just right > click on an suitable > scanned image and select Properties/Details. You can also edit tags and > comments in the > same place - just hover over the Value area and you will see a box "Add > tags" etc. > > On 16 Mar 2011 at 22:05, philippe pons wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have the following situation to deal with at one of my customers. > > > > They scan the invoices they receive, and store the file into the file > > system. > > > > When the invoice get paid, they want to insert a tag (kind of > > validation signature) into the electronic file of the invoice, before > > saving it into a different directory. > > > > How would you the tag insertion? Is it at least possible? > > > > Thanks in advance for your input. > > > > Philippe > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 17:05:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:05:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> In my framework I do JIT subforms. Part of the JIT subform process is to set the subform binding properties. I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. It appears that it is a known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field properties of a subform bound to ADO. Broken, throws an error, doesn't work, no fix. The work around is to filter the subform to only pull records for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset that the subform is bound to. So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. And in there somewhere I have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the parent fires (new parent PKID). All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to ADO. Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO recordset. I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as the DAO bound form. And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out a way to fix them. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > John, > > I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. > I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the > subform with ADO. Maybe I missed the post where you specified the > code that was going sideways. > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >> >> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >> >> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. >> It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are >> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 16 23:16:40 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 21:16:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? Message-ID: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Dear List: I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., fields into each table. Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 23:30:41 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 00:30:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: Rocky, Just curious, but why 3 tables? jack On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that > will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., > fields into each table. > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an > FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 16 23:29:27 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:29:27 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: <201103170431.p2H4VtxA018770@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ I usually have a seperate table for State and then a table for Postcodes with the state linked as a FK. Then I tie the Postcode table to the address (which has PCode and State together). Regards Darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin [rockysmolin at bchacc.com] Sent: Thursday, 17 March 2011 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? Dear List: I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., fields into each table. Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 16 23:37:47 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 21:37:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their home address - even though in most cases the participant record would also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity would be different. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? Rocky, Just curious, but why 3 tables? jack On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > that will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, > etc., fields into each table. > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 17 06:40:21 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:40:21 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005>, , Message-ID: <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> For ease of maintenance, sInce the address is directly related to the entity, I'd put them in the entity tables. As long as you keep the address fields standard, you can always use a UNION query to get all addresses if you need to combine then, with a flag to identify the type of entity Select "C" Addres,City... from tblCompanies union Select "S" Addres,City... from tblSocieties union Select "P" Addres,City... from tblPeople I also agree with Darryl, I'd try to use some form of Postcode,City, State lookup table and only store an FK to that tree, rathe than full details of the geographical hierarchy -- Stuart On 16 Mar 2011 at 21:37, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one > is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their > home address - even though in most cases the participant record would > also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be > common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity > would be different. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack > drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB > Design Question - too much normalization? > > Rocky, > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > jack > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > > that will have address information. There will probably be no > > overlap. > > > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main > > fax, etc., fields into each table. > > > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 17 07:49:54 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 05:49:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005>, , <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <647831F9F306495CB40C4C7439033978@HAL9005> I have a zip code table - can't remember where I got it - that I use in several apps - the user can enter a zip code and the city and state are retrieved from the zip code table. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? For ease of maintenance, sInce the address is directly related to the entity, I'd put them in the entity tables. As long as you keep the address fields standard, you can always use a UNION query to get all addresses if you need to combine then, with a flag to identify the type of entity Select "C" Addres,City... from tblCompanies union Select "S" Addres,City... from tblSocieties union Select "P" Addres,City... from tblPeople I also agree with Darryl, I'd try to use some form of Postcode,City, State lookup table and only store an FK to that tree, rathe than full details of the geographical hierarchy -- Stuart On 16 Mar 2011 at 21:37, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one > is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their > home address - even though in most cases the participant record would > also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be > common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity > would be different. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack > drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB > Design Question - too much normalization? > > Rocky, > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > jack > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > > that will have address information. There will probably be no > > overlap. > > > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main > > fax, etc., fields into each table. > > > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 07:50:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 08:50:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the application. From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will > apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that > might be useful. > > We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. > > While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user > interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) > in the Runtime environment. > > Brad From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 08:00:04 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:00:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: <7FD40A0658B64E6CA7F3F0DFE19ABD23@SusanHarkins> That was my question -- 3 tables of addresses? A Zip code lookup table can be a cool feature if someone's going to be entering lots of addresses and repeat Zip codes. Susan H. > Rocky, > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > jack > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > >> Dear List: >> >> I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that >> will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. >> >> Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, >> etc., >> fields into each table. >> >> Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and >> an >> FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 08:56:17 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:56:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <7FD40A0658B64E6CA7F3F0DFE19ABD23@SusanHarkins> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> <7FD40A0658B64E6CA7F3F0DFE19ABD23@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I concur with the PostalCode, City, State table set up -- very useful. With respect to the "addresses", will these be shipping address, billing address, physical location address, mailing address, etc... or any combination of same. This could be an issue if these are combined, and you now, or in future need to know which is which. Just a thought... jack On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > That was my question -- 3 tables of addresses? > A Zip code lookup table can be a cool feature if someone's going to be > entering lots of addresses and repeat Zip codes. > > Susan H. > > > > > Rocky, >> Just curious, but why 3 tables? >> jack >> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > >wrote: >> >> Dear List: >>> >>> I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that >>> will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. >>> >>> Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, >>> etc., >>> fields into each table. >>> >>> Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and >>> an >>> FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 17 09:20:17 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:20:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many copies of the Runtime) 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a helping hand to you with Runtime. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the application. From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will > apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that > might be useful. > > We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. > > While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user > interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) > in the Runtime environment. > > Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From Robert at WeBeDb.com Thu Mar 17 10:19:10 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:19:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> John, You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could not do that. You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both all the time through code. I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without the parameters. In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the _1 query. The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need to know any of the SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. Robert At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 > >Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, >modify and use" because you can't >modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am >going to have to become proficient >in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the >thread above which discusses this >for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the >combos and reports. > >This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never >had to use before. Working with >parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area >that I have always wanted to learn. > Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. > >-- >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 10:30:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:30:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D822918.5050508@colbyconsulting.com> Great idea Robert! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 10:31:31 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:31:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. Just be careful with this thinking. If you distribute the MDB it can be moved to any machine which does have the full Access install and can be modified there. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 10:20 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. > > There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. > > 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many copies of the Runtime) > > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. > > If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. > > You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a helping hand to you with Runtime. > > Brad > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby > Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > > That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run > time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to > troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the > application. > > From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it > will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> John, >> >> I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will >> apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that >> might be useful. >> >> We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. >> >> While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user >> interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) >> in the Runtime environment. >> >> Brad From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 17 11:03:05 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:03:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, Good point. I had not thought of that. None of our users have a full version of Access so this is currently not an issue, but things may change down the road. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 10:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. Just be careful with this thinking. If you distribute the MDB it can be moved to any machine which does have the full Access install and can be modified there. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 10:20 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. > > There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. > > 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many copies of the Runtime) > > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. > > If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. > > You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a helping hand to you with Runtime. > > Brad > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby > Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > > That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run > time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to > troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the > application. > > From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it > will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> John, >> >> I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will >> apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that >> might be useful. >> >> We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. >> >> While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user >> interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) >> in the Runtime environment. >> >> Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Mar 17 11:25:56 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:25:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Ribbon Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709591@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have the following set up in the table USysRibbons. I thought it was supposed to hide the ribbon but all it does is remove all the tab names except home. Am I misunderstanding? RibbonName RibbonXML Menu Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 12:31:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:31:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <647831F9F306495CB40C4C7439033978@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <647831F9F306495CB40C4C7439033978@HAL9005> Message-ID: That might have been me, I gave it to several people many years ago. :) I tend to do this: tblAddress --------------- AddrID (PK) LocationName (Main Office...) Addr1 (line 1) Addr2 (line 2) Addr3 (line 3) faddr (Where I store any foreign/unhandled city, St, Zip) ZipID (Int, FK) AddrTypeID (int, FK) AddrNotes CountryID (intFK) entryDate entryUserID tblAddrZipList ------------------ ZipID (Int, PK) ZipCode (I only store the 5 digit zip, if +4 is needed, I'd store it up in tblAddress) City DefaultCity (Boolean) State (probably better idea to store StateID) TerritoryID (if needed, can also place in tblAddress if not Zipcode based) tblAdressType -------------- AddrTypeID (PK) AddrType (BillTo, ShipTo, Both...) tblAddressContactMethod (Junction Table) ------------------------ AddrCtcID (Int PK) ctcMethodID (Int FK) ctcInfo (619-555-1212, SomeGuy at Gmail.com, www.SomeAddress.com) entryDate entryUserID tblContactMethod ------------------------- ctcMethodID (Int PK) ContactMethod (Phone, Fax, Email, Website, Cell#, Some new technology that hasn't been invented yet) DisplayOrder entryDate entryUserID I usually use junction tables between tblCompany and tblAddress as a company can have multiple address and an address can have multiple businesses running out of it. I also keep all companies in one table, whether they are a customer, prospect, vendor, distributor. A simple flag/FKid can tell me what they are. I do the same with contacts and ContactMethod (as above with addresses) . HTH David On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 5:49 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I have a zip code table - can't remember where I got it - that I use in > several apps - the user can enter a zip code and the city and state are > retrieved from the zip code table. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? > > For ease of maintenance, sInce the address is directly related to the > entity, I'd put them in the entity tables. As long as you keep the address > fields standard, you can always use a UNION query to get all addresses if > you need to combine then, with a flag to identify the type of entity > > Select "C" Addres,City... from tblCompanies union Select "S" Addres,City... > from tblSocieties union Select "P" Addres,City... from tblPeople > > I also agree with Darryl, I'd try to use some form of Postcode,City, State > lookup table and only store an FK to that tree, rathe than full details of > the geographical hierarchy > > -- > Stuart > > > On 16 Mar 2011 at 21:37, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one > > is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their > > home address - even though in most cases the participant record would > > also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be > > common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity > > would be different. > > > > Rocky > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack > > drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB > > Design Question - too much normalization? > > > > Rocky, > > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > > jack > > > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > > wrote: > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > > > that will have address information. There will probably be no > > > overlap. > > > > > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main > > > fax, etc., fields into each table. > > > > > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > > > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > > > > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 12:34:16 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:34:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Release it as an ADE/MDE ;) On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 8:31 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA > code, change things, etc. > > > Just be careful with this thinking. If you distribute the MDB it can be > moved to any machine which does have the full Access install and can be > modified there. > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/17/2011 10:20 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > >> John, >> >> We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. >> >> There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. >> >> 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many >> copies of the Runtime) >> >> 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA >> code, change things, etc. >> >> If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. >> >> You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD >> which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a >> helping hand to you with Runtime. >> >> Brad >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby >> Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> >> That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to >> really fess up to using the run >> time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details >> ironed out. Trying to >> troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how >> to get feedback from the >> application. >> >> From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even >> programmatically. If it >> will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> >>> John, >>> >>> I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will >>> apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that >>> might be useful. >>> >>> We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. >>> >>> While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user >>> interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) >>> in the Runtime environment. >>> >>> Brad >>> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 13:12:36 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:12:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. And the master and child links likewise. That's part of the reason why I always used unbound forms/subforms with ADO. I realize your framework is based on bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you might expect, so I didn't go there. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to > set the subform binding properties. > > I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a > known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field > properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't > work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull records > for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset that > the subform is bound to. > > So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search > around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. > > Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form > stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere I > have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the > form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement > (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the parent > fires (new parent PKID). > > All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to ADO. > > Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO > recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the > ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets > the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. > > Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as > the DAO bound form. > > And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out a > way to fix them. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> John, >> >> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >> code that was going sideways. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>> >>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>> >>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>> linking. >>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>> are >>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 13:24:17 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:24:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: I always used a separate "phone table" with a field that described the type, including fax. It was bound to the address table and the person ID to allow for multiple phone numbers. I used a default of zero in the Person ID when the number only applied to an address and was non-specific to a person. Of course, that required a 0 Person ID in the table describing the person, but I always did that anyhow to allow for complex keys and unavailable information. I also had a field in the Address table that described type, so that it could cover a business address or a personal address. If needed, I had a one-to-one table for additional address information peculiar to a particular type. Since zip codes can belong to multiple cities or even to buildings, and cities can have multiple zip codes, I gave up on those and just stored them with the address. The USPS has zip code files, but unless you need to validate to the street address level, I wouldn't bother. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 9:16 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that > will have address information. ?There will probably be no overlap. > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., > fields into each table. > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an > FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 17 15:57:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:57:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Charlotte: If that was true why does the following not product an error? Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. And the master and child links likewise. That's part of the reason why I always used unbound forms/subforms with ADO. I realize your framework is based on bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you might expect, so I didn't go there. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to > set the subform binding properties. > > I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a > known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field > properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't > work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull records > for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset that > the subform is bound to. > > So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search > around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. > > Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form > stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere I > have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the > form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement > (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the parent > fires (new parent PKID). > > All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to ADO. > > Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO > recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the > ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets > the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. > > Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as > the DAO bound form. > > And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out a > way to fix them. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> John, >> >> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >> code that was going sideways. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>> >>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>> >>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>> linking. >>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>> are >>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 16:23:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 17:23:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D827BC1.2040005@colbyconsulting.com> Jim, She didn't say .Clone doesn't exist, she said it functions differently from the DAO Recordsetclone. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 4:57 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Charlotte: > > If that was true why does the following not product an error? > > > Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset > > Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and > Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. And the master > and child links likewise. That's part of the reason why I always used > unbound forms/subforms with ADO. I realize your framework is based on > bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable > binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you > might expect, so I didn't go there. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >> In my framework I do JIT subforms. Part of the JIT subform process is to >> set the subform binding properties. >> >> I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. It appears that it is a >> known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field >> properties of a subform bound to ADO. Broken, throws an error, doesn't >> work, no fix. The work around is to filter the subform to only pull > records >> for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset > that >> the subform is bound to. >> >> So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search >> around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. >> >> Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form >> stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. And in there somewhere > I >> have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the >> form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement >> (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the > parent >> fires (new parent PKID). >> >> All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to > ADO. >> >> Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO >> recordset. I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the >> ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets >> the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. >> >> Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as >> the DAO bound form. >> >> And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out > a >> way to fix them. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >>> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >>> subform with ADO. Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >>> code that was going sideways. >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>>> >>>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>>> >>>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>>> linking. >>>> It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>>> are >>>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 18:46:24 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 16:46:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: The recordset produced by recordset.clone is not the same as the recordsetclone. If you modify RecordsetClone, the change is reflected in the recordset. When you create a recordset using clone, the original and the clone do not interact in that way, or at least they didn't in the versions of Access with which I actually worked (through 2002). Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Charlotte: > > If that was true why does the following not product an error? > > > Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset > > Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and > Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. ?And the master > and child links likewise. ?That's part of the reason why I always used > unbound forms/subforms with ADO. ?I realize your framework is based on > bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable > binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you > might expect, so I didn't go there. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >> In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to >> set the subform binding properties. >> >> I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a >> known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field >> properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't >> work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull > records >> for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset > that >> the subform is bound to. >> >> So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search >> around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. >> >> Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form >> stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere > I >> have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the >> form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement >> (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the > parent >> fires (new parent PKID). >> >> All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to > ADO. >> >> Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO >> recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the >> ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets >> the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. >> >> Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as >> the DAO bound form. >> >> And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out > a >> way to fix them. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >>> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >>> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >>> code that was going sideways. >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >>> ?wrote: >>>> >>>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>>> >>>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>>> >>>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>>> linking. >>>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>>> are >>>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 18 05:57:34 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 03:57:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Charlotte: It appears that I may have never actually used this recordsetclone, never knew the function existed and now I will never have an opportunity to use it again. For that reason I was confused and thought you were discussing recordset.clone. It is sad to know some poor function died before I had a chance to abuse it. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error The recordset produced by recordset.clone is not the same as the recordsetclone. If you modify RecordsetClone, the change is reflected in the recordset. When you create a recordset using clone, the original and the clone do not interact in that way, or at least they didn't in the versions of Access with which I actually worked (through 2002). Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Charlotte: > > If that was true why does the following not product an error? > > > Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset > > Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and > Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. ?And the master > and child links likewise. ?That's part of the reason why I always used > unbound forms/subforms with ADO. ?I realize your framework is based on > bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable > binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you > might expect, so I didn't go there. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >> In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to >> set the subform binding properties. >> >> I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a >> known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field >> properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't >> work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull > records >> for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset > that >> the subform is bound to. >> >> So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search >> around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. >> >> Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form >> stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere > I >> have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the >> form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement >> (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the > parent >> fires (new parent PKID). >> >> All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to > ADO. >> >> Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO >> recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the >> ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets >> the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. >> >> Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as >> the DAO bound form. >> >> And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out > a >> way to fix them. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >>> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >>> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >>> code that was going sideways. >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >>> ?wrote: >>>> >>>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>>> >>>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>>> >>>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>>> linking. >>>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>>> are >>>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 07:04:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:04:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D834A33.1030607@colbyconsulting.com> Robert, Are you using bound forms? Does anyone know how to compare binding to pass through query as opposed to binding to ADO recordset? It seems that binding to a pass-through would leave me in DAO which my framework supports already. Binding to an ADO recordset leaves me in ADO. It is totally unclear to me what goes on in either case "behind the scenes" pulling records from SQL Server, updating the records, updating back to SQL Server and so forth. In a few months or so I will have a better idea of what actually happens but it is tough to make design decisions without already knowing this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 07:18:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D834D8C.4040806@colbyconsulting.com> Robert, What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It immediately asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any time I do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. Am I missing something? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 07:29:47 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:29:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> Robert, From my reading, pass through queries are always returned in a snapshot which makes them non-updateable? These would work great for combos and such but not for bound editable forms correct? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From delam at zyterra.com Fri Mar 18 08:05:21 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:05:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Ribbon In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709591@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709591@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <0651A8A6-C1D3-44BE-810A-E3ABE33D6183@zyterra.com> Best I can see that should do it, however it may want something in it's place rather than a totally blank slate. Personally I have never left it completely blank. Debbie. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 17, 2011, at 11:25 AM, "Kaup, Chester" wrote: > I have the following set up in the table USysRibbons. I thought it > was supposed to hide the ribbon but all it does is remove all the > tab names except home. Am I misunderstanding? > > RibbonName RibbonXML > Menu "http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/01/customui"> > > > > > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Mar 18 10:50:38 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 07:50:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D834D8C.4040806@colbyconsulting.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> <4D834D8C.4040806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D837F4E.8060103@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John In farting around learning SQl Server. At the moment very simply I use For a pass-through query - QryMatrixGrp Dim qdfPassMatrix as QueryDef On form open Set qdfPassMatrix=db.QueryDefs("QryMatrixGrp") qdfPassMatrix.Connect = "Your Connect String" Hope this helps jwcolby wrote: > Robert, > > What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? > > I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it > pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It > immediately asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for > the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user > name / password any time I do anything with that query or the form > that is bound to that query. > > Am I missing something? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > >> John, >> >> You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure >> where you got the idea you could >> not do that. >> You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and >> queries can be modified. I do both >> all the time >> through code. >> >> I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). >> The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case >> of a passthrough query, without >> the parameters. >> In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or >> parameters, then replace the SQL in the >> _1 query. >> The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. >> >> By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or >> parameters, it does not need >> to know any of the >> SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the >> code. >> >> I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and >> Access 2010 with this methodology. >> >> Robert >> >> >> At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> >>> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >>> From: jwcolby >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> >>> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >>> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>> >>> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >>> >>> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, >>> modify and use" because you can't >>> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am >>> going to have to become proficient >>> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the >>> thread above which discusses this >>> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the >>> combos and reports. >>> >>> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never >>> had to use before. Working with >>> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area >>> that I have always wanted to learn. >>> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Mar 18 11:00:01 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:00:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D838181.40005@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John Correct as to what I found out/read so far. Combos, list boxes, reports and read only forms. jwcolby wrote: > Robert, > > From my reading, pass through queries are always returned in a > snapshot which makes them non-updateable? These would work great for > combos and such but not for bound editable forms correct? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > >> John, >> >> You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure >> where you got the idea you could >> not do that. >> You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and >> queries can be modified. I do both >> all the time >> through code. >> >> I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). >> The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case >> of a passthrough query, without >> the parameters. >> In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or >> parameters, then replace the SQL in the >> _1 query. >> The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. >> >> By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or >> parameters, it does not need >> to know any of the >> SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the >> code. >> >> I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and >> Access 2010 with this methodology. >> >> Robert >> >> >> At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> >>> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >>> From: jwcolby >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> >>> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >>> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>> >>> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >>> >>> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, >>> modify and use" because you can't >>> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am >>> going to have to become proficient >>> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the >>> thread above which discusses this >>> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the >>> combos and reports. >>> >>> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never >>> had to use before. Working with >>> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area >>> that I have always wanted to learn. >>> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 10:39:02 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 11:39:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D838181.40005@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> <4D838181.40005@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D837C96.9030806@colbyconsulting.com> It's slowly starting to work... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 12:00 PM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey John > Correct as to what I found out/read so far. Combos, list boxes, reports and read only forms. > > jwcolby wrote: > >> Robert, >> >> From my reading, pass through queries are always returned in a snapshot which makes them >> non-updateable? These would work great for combos and such but not for bound editable forms correct? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: >> >>> John, >>> >>> You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could >>> not do that. >>> You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both >>> all the time >>> through code. >>> >>> I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). >>> The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without >>> the parameters. >>> In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the >>> _1 query. >>> The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. >>> >>> By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need >>> to know any of the >>> SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. >>> >>> I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this >>> methodology. >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> >>> At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >>> >>>> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >>>> From: jwcolby >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> >>>> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >>>> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>>> >>>> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >>>> >>>> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >>>> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >>>> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >>>> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >>>> >>>> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >>>> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to >>>> learn. >>>> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 11:14:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:14:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near Message-ID: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 I modified it to add the table name. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. The following compiles and runs in sql server SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can filter the result set to only a specific set of records. When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 18 12:42:03 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:42:03 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John -- According to the common usage style It would be more correct to write : SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) T1 WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but you can often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) - and you'll be safe & you'll reach the richness.. :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 I modified it to add the table name. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. The following compiles and runs in sql server SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can filter the result set to only a specific set of records. When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 14:29:02 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:29:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> Yep. I am generating the SQL in Access and I test the SQL in a query in Access, where it worked just fine. It is only when trying to give the SQL to an ado recordset object and have that object ask SQL Server for the data that the problem reared its ugly head. It took me a few minutes of head scratching to figure it out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 1:42 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi John -- > > According to the common usage style It would be more correct to write : > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) T1 > WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but you can > often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) - and you'll be safe& you'll reach > the richness.. :) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near > > The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. > > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE > PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I modified it to add the table name. > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE > tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. > > PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. > > The following compiles and runs in sql server > > SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE > tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the outer > statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner sql statement > and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can filter the result > set to only a specific set of records. > > When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. I > thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, discover that > PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. > > If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query window, > it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a swearword as the > alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). > > Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) AS T1 > WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri Mar 18 14:55:39 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:55:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: "I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple in my life, it makes no difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. I understand what goes in each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to 3rd normal. I have read many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood (at the time I read it) *some* of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric." -- JWC LOL. I'm sure I told this story before, but about a decade ago, when I started working for my current employer, I started going back to college. Took an MIS class (Managing Information Services). First day of the class, I was sitting in the back, here I am, 28 years old, with a bunch of people that probably couldn't order a beer. The teacher starts going into the internet, and TCP/IP. Just going over basic stuff. He then goes over a very basic description of an IP address, and asks if anyone knew why each quad of an IP address had values from only 0 to 255. I looked around, no one was answering, so I raised my hand. The professor called on me, and I said 'Because that's 8 bits, or a byte'. Wow, the class looked at me like a herd of deer mesmerized by headlights! LOL. I never studied for any of the tests, and I don't remember if there was homework or not (I would have done the homework if there was some). I always got an A on the tests. This stuff was SOOO far below my level of understanding it wasn't funny, but it was a required course that I couldn't test out of. On one of the tests the question was: What would a relational database developer refer to as a row of data? So here I am, taking this test, and employeed full time as a programmer/developer (with a relational database), and so I answered 'record' (I think it might have been row). Tuple was in the list of answers, but honestly, I hadn't read that chapter in the book. So when I got my test back, it was the only question I had wrong, so I went and asked the instructor. His response was basically 'the book answer is tuple'. I had to laugh at that, because the book also described Widnows 95 and Windows 98 as 'different Operating Systems', which the teacher pointed out in class is 'technically' incorrect. Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Fri Mar 18 15:09:11 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:09:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BB@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> In Access 2003 if you go to Tools, Options in the Tables/Queries tab is an option for SQL Server Compatible Syntax (ANSI 92). I've never played with the setting - but maybe if you had that option turned on, your generated SQL from Access would work as is in SQL Server via ado? HTH, Rusty -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 2:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near Yep. I am generating the SQL in Access and I test the SQL in a query in Access, where it worked just fine. It is only when trying to give the SQL to an ado recordset object and have that object ask SQL Server for the data that the problem reared its ugly head. It took me a few minutes of head scratching to figure it out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 1:42 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi John -- > > According to the common usage style It would be more correct to write : > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > T1 WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but > you can often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) - and you'll be safe& > you'll reach the richness.. :) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near > > The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. > > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I modified it to add the table name. > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. > > PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. > > The following compiles and runs in sql server > > SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE > tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the > outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner > sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can > filter the result set to only a specific set of records. > > When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. > I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, > discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. > > If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query > window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a > swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). > > Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 15:21:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:21:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D83BEBB.2090408@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. Yep, and the strange part of that whole thread is that I have studied all that stuff, though not necessarily all of it in a classroom. I know tuple and relation but it simply isn't used anywhere in the (non-academic) world so why cling to it? All it appears to do is provide a false sense of superiority. If you happen to work at a university and need to discuss these terms on a daily basis with an 80 year old professor who learned that stuff and refuses to use modern terms, then I guess they would be relevant. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 3:55 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > "I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple > in my life, it makes no > difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. > I understand what goes in > each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to > 3rd normal. I have read > many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood > (at the time I read it) *some* > of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric." -- JWC > > LOL. I'm sure I told this story before, but about a decade ago, when I > started working for my current employer, I started going back to > college. Took an MIS class (Managing Information Services). > > First day of the class, I was sitting in the back, here I am, 28 years > old, with a bunch of people that probably couldn't order a beer. The > teacher starts going into the internet, and TCP/IP. Just going over > basic stuff. He then goes over a very basic description of an IP > address, and asks if anyone knew why each quad of an IP address had > values from only 0 to 255. I looked around, no one was answering, so I > raised my hand. The professor called on me, and I said 'Because that's > 8 bits, or a byte'. Wow, the class looked at me like a herd of deer > mesmerized by headlights! LOL. > > I never studied for any of the tests, and I don't remember if there was > homework or not (I would have done the homework if there was some). I > always got an A on the tests. This stuff was SOOO far below my level of > understanding it wasn't funny, but it was a required course that I > couldn't test out of. On one of the tests the question was: > > What would a relational database developer refer to as a row of data? > > So here I am, taking this test, and employeed full time as a > programmer/developer (with a relational database), and so I answered > 'record' (I think it might have been row). Tuple was in the list of > answers, but honestly, I hadn't read that chapter in the book. > > So when I got my test back, it was the only question I had wrong, so I > went and asked the instructor. His response was basically 'the book > answer is tuple'. I had to laugh at that, because the book also > described Widnows 95 and Windows 98 as 'different Operating Systems', > which the teacher pointed out in class is 'technically' incorrect. > > Drew > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > From edzedz at comcast.net Fri Mar 18 18:09:30 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:09:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Message-ID: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Fri Mar 18 18:19:19 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:19:19 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <5614BB72A898456981BE3B79A3BF4D60@stevelaptop> Ed, As far as I am aware, this is simply not possible. You can't establish an ODBC connection from Access to Access. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Edward Zuris Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 12:09 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. From robert at servicexp.com Fri Mar 18 18:33:58 2011 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:33:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: HTPC Command Line Parsing Problem In-Reply-To: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <000c01cbe5c4$f5f78060$e1e68120$@com> Ok, I have been fighting with this for a while now, and just can't seem to come up with a solution Enviroment: Windows Command Line Batch Process Back Ground: My WMC7 HTPC records shows to a folder, from there I have a program called WatchDirectory trigger a batch file for show processing. The batch file logic looks in a SHOWPARMS.txt text file for the show name, and returns to the batch file it's processing parameters. I have the basic framework up and running. Inside SHOWPARMS.txt Example: Glenn;True;"";"C:\VideoCaptures\GlennBeck";False;"";False;False Returns: True;"";"C:\VideoCaptures\GlennBeck";False;"";False;False Batch File Commands So Far: set SEARCHNAME=%WD_FILE_B:~0,4% :find from left to right the row that matches the first 4 characters :: Get the Show Params for /f "tokens=2-9 delims=;" %%A in ('findstr /b /i "%SEARCHNAME%" "C:\SyncFiles\Bat Files\SHOWPARMS.txt"') do ( set sQSF=%%A set sCOM=%%B set sPAT=%%C set sRAR=%%D set sUPL=%%E set sSFV=%%F set sDEL=%%G ) Problem: I need to parse the string backwards from the first "-" (I think). So if a show name is less the 4 characters the batch would still find it in the text file. So code would not only find this string using "Glen" or "Glenn" In "Glenn Beck-" or "GlennBeck-" (Which currently works) but would also need to find "V" in "V-" (currently the show would be missed due to the < 4 characters show name.) Then "-" after the show name is always there. Objective: To make the search string length variable (I think), and not based on the current limited 4 character requirement. To find the "-" after the show name and match as many characters as possible. (I think). ;) Any ideas how I can pull this off? From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 18 18:41:40 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:41:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <5614BB72A898456981BE3B79A3BF4D60@stevelaptop> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1>, <5614BB72A898456981BE3B79A3BF4D60@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <4D83EDB4.3389.6C0AAC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Correct. Trying to do so generates a 3423 error: "You cannot use ODBC to import from, export to, or link an external Microsoft Jet or ISAM database table to your database." -- Stuart On 19 Mar 2011 at 12:19, Steve Schapel wrote: > Ed, > > As far as I am aware, this is simply not possible. You can't > establish an ODBC connection from Access to Access. > > Regards > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Edward Zuris > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 12:09 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access > > > Hello Everyone, > > It has been awhile. > > I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source > and then link tables into another Access database. > > I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, > but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for > Access 2000, or Access 2003. > > Any suggestions on how to do that ? > > Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? > > Thanks. > > Sincerely, > Ed Zuris. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 18 19:26:30 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:26:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <000f01cbe5cc$4e10e410$ea32ac30$@comcast.net> Instead of ODBC, can you use the IN keyword? Dim stgFullPath as string Dim stgSQL as string stgFullPath = "//Server/Folder/DataTables.mdb" stgSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblMain IN '" & stgFullPath & "'" _ & " WHERE ID = 1" I use this frequently - avoids table links between access files, and performs well. HTH! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 6:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From edzedz at comcast.net Fri Mar 18 22:43:01 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:43:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <000f01cbe5cc$4e10e410$ea32ac30$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000001cbe5e7$c1434b10$5bdea8c0@edz1> Thanks. That idea works. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 5:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Instead of ODBC, can you use the IN keyword? Dim stgFullPath as string Dim stgSQL as string stgFullPath = "//Server/Folder/DataTables.mdb" stgSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblMain IN '" & stgFullPath & "'" _ & " WHERE ID = 1" I use this frequently - avoids table links between access files, and performs well. HTH! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 6:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 23:56:12 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 21:56:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BB@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BB@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: Trust me, you ALWAYS have to test SQL in SQL Server if you're going to use it there. At my last job, our apps ran against either SQL Server or Access back ends, so every SQL statement built in code had to be checked against both environments and we had to branch the code where the versions of SQL differed in their behavior. Charlotte Foust On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Rusty Hammond wrote: > In Access 2003 if you go to Tools, Options in the Tables/Queries tab is > an option for SQL Server Compatible Syntax (ANSI 92). ?I've never played > with the setting - but maybe if you had that option turned on, your > generated SQL from Access would work as is in SQL Server via ado? > > HTH, > > Rusty > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 2:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near > > Yep. ?I am generating the SQL in Access and I test the SQL in a query in > Access, where it worked just fine. ?It is only when trying to give the > SQL to an ado recordset object and have that object ask SQL Server for > the data that the problem reared its ugly head. > > It took me a few minutes of head scratching to figure it out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/18/2011 1:42 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: >> Hi John -- >> >> According to the common usage style It would be more correct to ?write > : >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> T1 WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but >> you can often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) ?- and you'll be safe& >> you'll reach the richness.. :) >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >> Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near >> >> The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. >> >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> I modified it to add the table name. >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. >> >> PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. >> >> The following compiles and runs in sql server >> >> SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?WHERE >> tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the >> outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner >> sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can > >> filter the result set to only a specific set of records. >> >> When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. > >> I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, >> discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. >> >> If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query >> window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. ?It does give me a >> swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in > Access). >> >> Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 19 08:24:54 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:24:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note Message-ID: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sat Mar 19 09:06:35 2011 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 14:06:35 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0FD11B4C294B4099B2AE2CCC86D2369D@MINSTER> Can we have that in English? Andy -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 19 March 2011 13:25 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at servicexp.com Sat Mar 19 09:26:46 2011 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:26:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000901cbe641$b09e7af0$11db70d0$@com> Not too bad, make sure you dl Titanium Backup W/Root in the marketplace .. Fantastic backup program.. ;) Now that you're rooted (s-Off), the sky's the limit on what you can do with your phone now. Have Fun.. WBR Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 09:49:32 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 07:49:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. I just upgraded my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. What a process! Charlotte On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the > bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at my house > I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad > considering it is over cell. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 19 09:54:22 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:54:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <000901cbe641$b09e7af0$11db70d0$@com> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <000901cbe641$b09e7af0$11db70d0$@com> Message-ID: <4D84C39E.6020109@colbyconsulting.com> Z4Mod is what I used to do the root. It is pretty cool, allowing me to root / modify / unroot very easily! I am using the free Bloat Freezer to freeze apps. It seems this makes for simpler upgrades in the future? I am still trying to discover what is really useful to freeze. Mostly I just wanted to get rid of the obvious crapware like CityID and AmazonMP3. And of course set up the tether. My problem right now is that the tether doesn't give me an encryption scheme that matches Vista so I can't lock the tether which kinda sucks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/19/2011 10:26 AM, Robert wrote: > Not too bad, make sure you dl Titanium Backup W/Root in the marketplace .. > Fantastic backup program.. ;) Now that you're rooted (s-Off), the sky's the > limit on what you can do with your phone now. > > Have Fun.. > > WBR > Robert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the > bloatware, and downloaded > and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down > and .5 mbit up via the > tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 12:10:24 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:10:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note Message-ID: Hopefully Verizon doesn't follow at&t. They sent text messages and email to jailbroken iPhones that were tethering, saying that they need to add tethering to their plan. Sent from my Droid phone. On Mar 19, 2011 7:55 AM, "jwcolby" wrote: From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 19 14:50:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:50:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps Message-ID: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 19:28:38 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 17:28:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Useful to me, personally? GasBuddy, Mileage, MissingSync, DocumentsToGo, FliqCalendar and FliqNotes (sync with Outlook), Extended Controls, Expense Tracker. Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:50 PM, jwcolby wrote: > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From robert at servicexp.com Sat Mar 19 19:29:22 2011 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:29:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000001cbe695$dd5a9d90$980fd8b0$@com> Google Nav. & Maps Remote Desktop AndFTP QuickOffice Astro RealCalc Elec. Wiring Pro Area & Volume ES File Explorer FeedR IMDb CadreBible ... are the programs I seem to use the most. Some others include: Dictionary Bank Of America App Flixster Calorie Counter The UnderGround Remote Media Center ..etc.. ;) WBR Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 21:59:33 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 19:59:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <000001cbe695$dd5a9d90$980fd8b0$@com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cbe695$dd5a9d90$980fd8b0$@com> Message-ID: I also use AT&T Navigator when I don't have my big gps with me and I use both the Amazon Kindle reader and the Nook reader on my phone. Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Robert wrote: > Google Nav. & Maps > Remote Desktop > AndFTP > QuickOffice > Astro > RealCalc > Elec. Wiring Pro > Area & Volume > ES File Explorer > FeedR > IMDb > CadreBible > > ... are the programs I seem to use the most. > > Some others include: > > Dictionary > Bank Of America App > Flixster > Calorie Counter > The UnderGround > Remote Media Center > > ..etc.. ;) > > > WBR > Robert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 22:03:22 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:03:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, what's wrong with that??? You got to use the technology! LOL Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:10 AM, David McAfee wrote: > Hopefully Verizon doesn't follow at&t. They sent text messages and email to > jailbroken iPhones that were tethering, saying that they need to add > tethering to their plan. > > Sent from my Droid phone. > On Mar 19, 2011 7:55 AM, "jwcolby" wrote: > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 00:26:57 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 22:26:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note Message-ID: IMO it is stupid. I mean if you are paying for unlimited minutes, who cares how you use them? Sent from my Droid phone. On Mar 19, 2011 8:04 PM, "Charlotte Foust" wrote: From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun Mar 20 06:39:32 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 22:39:32 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <201103201139.p2KBdksT023637@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Dropbox. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby [jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 6:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 12:20:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:20:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Message-ID: Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 12:23:36 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:23:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 12:44:14 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:44:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <1370177E6BEB484F824E2304AF853FED@HAL9005> Never mind. I figured it out. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sun Mar 20 12:50:13 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 20:50:13 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 13:14:16 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 11:14:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> <66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> Message-ID: <926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> It's in the after update of an option frame where the user picks one of two subforms. But I got it to work. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sun Mar 20 14:49:05 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 22:49:05 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005><66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> <926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> Message-ID: <36FB6626070E45EE8DC95FCDD76352AC@nant> Hi Rocky -- Yes, I have seen from your other message that you've solved the issue. It could have been that subform has had "Dirty = True" when you tried to change its recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 21:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source It's in the after update of an option frame where the user picks one of two subforms. But I got it to work. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 16:42:11 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:42:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <36FB6626070E45EE8DC95FCDD76352AC@nant> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005><66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant><926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> <36FB6626070E45EE8DC95FCDD76352AC@nant> Message-ID: <5EFBBB3C31144D259CDD77B043CD2F96@HAL9005> Shamil: I had about 4 other things wrong with that form and code - but got them all straightened out. Final code is: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = _ "Select * FROM tblProductionRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " _ & Val(Nz(Me.cboPanelDefID.Column(0))) Ans takes care of the problem of the user not selecting a record from the cboPanelDef combo box - the subform then has zero records. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 12:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- Yes, I have seen from your other message that you've solved the issue. It could have been that subform has had "Dirty = True" when you tried to change its recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 21:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source It's in the after update of an option frame where the user picks one of two subforms. But I got it to work. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun Mar 20 20:05:35 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:05:35 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Howdy It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same way the Yanks do... That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- "I rooted my droid X last night" Hmm - And then Charlottes response:- "I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. Andy - Comments please. Snigger -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. I just upgraded my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. What a process! Charlotte On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all > the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at > my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not > bad considering it is over cell. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 20:12:26 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:12:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely NOT what it means here! Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone > (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same > way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung > from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >> bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun Mar 20 20:29:01 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:29:01 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <019901cbe767$5ca89170$15f9b450$@activebilling.com.au> Insert little boy snigger here Ok - Nothing to see here folks - nothing to see here ...move along, move along -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely NOT what it means here! Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a > phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not > the same way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my > Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here >> at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. >> Not bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun Mar 20 20:46:30 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:46:30 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely NOT what it means here! Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone > (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same > way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung > from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >> bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Mar 20 21:02:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:02:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> References: , <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for > you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: > > Howdy > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' > > a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not > > the same way the Yanks do... > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > Andy - Comments please. > > Snigger > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my > > Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > Charlotte > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > wrote: > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the > >> tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 23:43:22 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 21:43:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Lush as an adjective means the same thing here. Lush used as a noun is what you're thinking of. Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather unnerving. ?and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... ?Another one is "Lush". ?Lush to may Aussies is short for Lusicous or delicious. ?Probably not such a good pick up line to approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush tonight. ?aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > Here, now! ?This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! ?I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: >> Howdy >> It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone >> (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. >> Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same >> way the Yanks do... >> >> That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- >> ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" >> Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- >> ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" >> Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. >> Andy - Comments please. >> Snigger >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >> Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note >> >> I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung >> from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! >> >> Charlotte >> >> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby >> wrote: >>> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >>> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >>> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >>> bad considering it is over cell. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon Mar 21 00:13:32 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:13:32 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103210513.p2L5Dd00017041@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ hahaha, I am not sure how successful I would be trying to explain the semantics of that to the tipsy (and now offended) 'woman at the bar' when she gives me a filthy look in response. :) However, I will keep that in mind just in case! cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 3:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note Lush as an adjective means the same thing here. Lush used as a noun is what you're thinking of. Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather unnerving. ?and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... ?Another one is "Lush". ?Lush to may Aussies is short for Lusicous or delicious. ?Probably not such a good pick up line to approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush tonight. ?aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > Here, now! ?This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! ?I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: >> Howdy >> It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone >> (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. >> Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same >> way the Yanks do... >> >> That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- >> ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" >> Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- >> ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" >> Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. >> Andy - Comments please. >> Snigger >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >> Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note >> >> I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung >> from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! >> >> Charlotte >> >> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby >> wrote: >>> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >>> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >>> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >>> bad considering it is over cell. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From darren at activebilling.com.au Mon Mar 21 00:18:38 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:18:38 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <020e01cbe787$70afc600$520f5200$@activebilling.com.au> Gold - I laughed out loud at this one :-) (Still don't know what the U.S. version of rooting a phone means - I really do want to know) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for > you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: > > Howdy > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' > > a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not > > the same way the Yanks do... > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > Andy - Comments please. > > Snigger > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my > > Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > Charlotte > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > wrote: > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the > >> tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Mar 21 00:27:18 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:27:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <020e01cbe787$70afc600$520f5200$@activebilling.com.au> References: , <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <020e01cbe787$70afc600$520f5200$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4D86E1B6.10271.61E090@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/04/15/rooting-explained-top-5-benefits-of-rooting-your- android-phone/ First, for the newbies, let me clarify what rooting is. Getting root or rooting your phone is the process of modifying the operating system on your device to grant you complete control over it. This means you can overcome limitations that the carriers and manufacturers put on your phone, extend system functionality, and even upgrade it to a custom flavor of Android. The name root comes from the Linux operating system world, where the most privileged user on the system (otherwise known as Administrator on Windows) is called root. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 16:18, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Gold - I laughed out loud at this one :-) > (Still don't know what the U.S. version of rooting a phone means - I > really do want to know) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 1:02 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. > > -- > Stuart > > On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the > > bottom of this message. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting > > for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these > > things. > > > > cheers > > Darryl. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I > > know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's > > definitely NOT what it means here! > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > > wrote: > > > Howdy > > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as > > > 'rooting' a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in > > > Australia. Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. > > > Perhaps not the same way the Yanks do... > > > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > > Andy - Comments please. > > > Snigger > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access > > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > > > On a lighter note > > > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded > > > my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > > > Charlotte > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > > wrote: > > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via > > >> the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> John W. Colby > > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by > > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon Mar 21 00:36:56 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:36:56 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D86E1B6.10271.61E090@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201103210537.p2L5b3oU030569@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ >From memory the term root comes from the concept of an (upside down) tree (directory tree to be precise). Where the base of all things is the root. Thus "Root Directory" being the master access directory etc. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 4:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/04/15/rooting-explained-top-5-benefits-of-rooting-your- android-phone/ First, for the newbies, let me clarify what rooting is. Getting root or rooting your phone is the process of modifying the operating system on your device to grant you complete control over it. This means you can overcome limitations that the carriers and manufacturers put on your phone, extend system functionality, and even upgrade it to a custom flavor of Android. The name root comes from the Linux operating system world, where the most privileged user on the system (otherwise known as Administrator on Windows) is called root. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 16:18, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Gold - I laughed out loud at this one :-) > (Still don't know what the U.S. version of rooting a phone means - I > really do want to know) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 1:02 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. > > -- > Stuart > > On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the > > bottom of this message. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting > > for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these > > things. > > > > cheers > > Darryl. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I > > know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's > > definitely NOT what it means here! > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > > wrote: > > > Howdy > > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as > > > 'rooting' a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in > > > Australia. Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. > > > Perhaps not the same way the Yanks do... > > > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > > Andy - Comments please. > > > Snigger > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access > > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > > > On a lighter note > > > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded > > > my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > > > Charlotte > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > > wrote: > > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via > > >> the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> John W. Colby > > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by > > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Mon Mar 21 07:54:04 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:54:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root my phone to use it. Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, home computer - have access to my notes anywhere -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 09:01:22 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:01:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: I was watching a home gardening show this weekend and one person tells the other "tug on it a little" or "give me a little tug". The host, who is Australian, said "that would mean something completely different in Australia " :) Sent from my Droid phone. On Mar 20, 2011 6:07 PM, "Darren - Active Billing" < darren at activebilling.com.au> wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone > (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same > way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > "I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm - And then Charlottes response:- > "I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. I just upgraded my Samsung > from Eclair to Froyo last night. What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at >> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >> bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Robert at WeBeDb.com Mon Mar 21 10:30:43 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:30:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <443C0DB8-9EF4-47E2-A9BF-758E2CD9BDDD@holly.arvixe.com> No, I do not bind to a pass through except in the case of a combobox or report. If you bind to a pass through, it is not editable. So, I only bind to them to things that I would not be editing. I use views for all my binding. Having also been and am a SQL Server DBA, I do not allow direct access to the SQL tables. At 07:04 AM 3/18/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:04:03 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D834A33.1030607 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Robert, > >Are you using bound forms? > >Does anyone know how to compare binding to pass through query as >opposed to binding to ADO recordset? > >It seems that binding to a pass-through would leave me in DAO which >my framework supports already. >Binding to an ADO recordset leaves me in ADO. It is totally unclear >to me what goes on in either >case "behind the scenes" pulling records from SQL Server, updating >the records, updating back to SQL >Server and so forth. In a few months or so I will have a better >idea of what actually happens but >it is tough to make design decisions without already knowing this stuff. From Robert at WeBeDb.com Mon Mar 21 10:51:48 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:51:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is a property in the design view, ODBC Connect String. My local development copy looks something like this: ODBC;DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=tg9078;UID=sa;PWD=monkey;DATABASE=WWCI_Master_Data Once that is filled in, you should not get any more hits asking you for that info. At 09:27 AM 3/19/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D834D8C.4040806 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Robert, > >What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? > >I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made >it pass-through by changing the >sql specific to pass through. It immediately asked me for a dsn, >and when I gave it one it asked me >for the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / >user name / password any time I >do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. > >Am I missing something? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon Mar 21 11:13:35 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:13:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PPT to Video In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com>, , <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au>, Message-ID: I've been searching for a decent PowerPoint to video converter so as to burn some DVDs of some PowerPoint marketing material. So far the free stuff yeilds crappy results and the trial stuff isn't much better. Does anyone have a suggestion of something free or inexpensive that yeilds high quality results? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From kismert at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 11:18:30 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:18:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime Message-ID: John, This got me curious about how I do this, so I did some rooting around. First, I find the DSN-less ODBC connect string for my SQL Server connection. My example: ODBC;Driver={SQL Server};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; For SQL Server 2008, you will need to install the SQL Server Native Client. For this, the connect string would be: ODBC;Driver={SQL Server Native Client 10.0};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; The native client will connect to all SQL Server instances from version 2000 on up. You can easily connect Access 2000 to SQL Server 2008 in this manner. Note: for TableDefs, Access conveniently mangles the connect string, so I keep the correct one in a VBA constant. Then I just make a SQL Pass-Through query, and paste the connect string in the ODBC Connect Str property. Put in your SQL, and save. My experience is that the connect string is stable, and doesn't need to be changed, even when you modify the query's SQL. You can also make a table that is direct-linked to SQL server with the same ODBC connect string. This may be easier in later versions of Access, but in 2000, you need code. The following requires a reference to ADOX (ADO Ext. 2.8 for DDL and Security): ' Adds a linked External table ' ' Parameters: ' sProviderString - ADO Provider string (can be ODBC Connect string) ' sSourceTbl - Source table name (provider) ' sLinkTblName - Link table name (local) ' bSavePassword - True: Set "Cache Link Name/Password" property ' ' Adapted from Visual Basic Programmer's Guide: Data Access Components ' http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/office/office2000/proddocs/opg/part3/ch14.mspx ' Public Sub CreateLinkedExternalTable(sProviderString As String, _ sSourceTbl As String, _ sLinkTblName As String, _ Optional bSavePassword As Boolean = False) Dim rCatalog As ADOX.Catalog Dim rTable As ADOX.Table On Error GoTo HandleErr ' Get current Catalog Set rCatalog = CurrentCatalog Set rTable = New ADOX.Table With rTable ' Name the new Table and set its ParentCatalog property to the ' open Catalog to allow access to the Properties collection. .Name = sLinkTblName Set .ParentCatalog = rCatalog ' Set the properties to create the link. .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Create Link") = True .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Link Provider String") = sProviderString .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Remote Table Name") = sSourceTbl If bSavePassword Then .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Cache Link Name/Password") = True End If End With ' Append the table to the Tables collection. rCatalog.Tables.Append rTable Set rCatalog = Nothing Exit Sub HandleErr: Err.Raise Err.Number, "CreateLinkedExternalTable" & VbCrLf & Err.Description End Sub With this, you can write normal, non-pass-through select queries against the table, and use it in DAO code with it just like any other TableDef. I wouldn't go crazy with multi-ODBC-table joins, though. Alas, you can't write normal update, insert or delete queries against an ODBC tabledef, as the underlying recordset is not updateable. For that, you will need the aforementioned ODBC Pass-through queries, and use some method for storing the base SQL like Robert's. You can call stored procedures this way, but for that, I would recommend using ADO, setting the parameters in code, and calling the procedure directly. -Ken ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving < > accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > Robert, > > What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? > > I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it > pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It immediately > asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for the user name / > password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any > time I do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. > > Am I missing something? > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 11:52:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:52:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D878265.9020102@colbyconsulting.com> Thanks Ken. I am slowly getting this sorted. I will try and write up what I am doing once I get it all figured out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 12:18 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > John, > > This got me curious about how I do this, so I did some rooting around. > > First, I find the DSN-less ODBC connect string for my SQL Server connection. > My example: > > ODBC;Driver={SQL > Server};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; > > For SQL Server 2008, you will need to install the SQL Server Native Client. > For this, the connect string would be: > > ODBC;Driver={SQL Server Native Client > 10.0};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; > > The native client will connect to all SQL Server instances from version 2000 > on up. You can easily connect Access 2000 to SQL Server 2008 in this manner. > > Note: for TableDefs, Access conveniently mangles the connect string, so I > keep the correct one in a VBA constant. > > Then I just make a SQL Pass-Through query, and paste the connect string in > the ODBC Connect Str property. Put in your SQL, and save. > > My experience is that the connect string is stable, and doesn't need to be > changed, even when you modify the query's SQL. > > You can also make a table that is direct-linked to SQL server with the same > ODBC connect string. This may be easier in later versions of Access, but in > 2000, you need code. The following requires a reference to ADOX (ADO Ext. > 2.8 for DDL and Security): > > ' Adds a linked External table > ' > ' Parameters: > ' sProviderString - ADO Provider string (can be ODBC Connect string) > ' sSourceTbl - Source table name (provider) > ' sLinkTblName - Link table name (local) > ' bSavePassword - True: Set "Cache Link Name/Password" property > ' > ' Adapted from Visual Basic Programmer's Guide: Data Access Components > ' > http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/office/office2000/proddocs/opg/part3/ch14.mspx > ' > Public Sub CreateLinkedExternalTable(sProviderString As String, _ > sSourceTbl As String, _ > sLinkTblName As String, _ > Optional bSavePassword As Boolean = False) > > Dim rCatalog As ADOX.Catalog > Dim rTable As ADOX.Table > > On Error GoTo HandleErr > > ' Get current Catalog > Set rCatalog = CurrentCatalog > > Set rTable = New ADOX.Table > With rTable > ' Name the new Table and set its ParentCatalog property to the > ' open Catalog to allow access to the Properties collection. > .Name = sLinkTblName > Set .ParentCatalog = rCatalog > ' Set the properties to create the link. > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Create Link") = True > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Link Provider String") = sProviderString > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Remote Table Name") = sSourceTbl > If bSavePassword Then > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Cache Link Name/Password") = True > End If > End With > > ' Append the table to the Tables collection. > rCatalog.Tables.Append rTable > Set rCatalog = Nothing > > Exit Sub > > HandleErr: > Err.Raise Err.Number, "CreateLinkedExternalTable"& VbCrLf& > Err.Description > End Sub > > With this, you can write normal, non-pass-through select queries against the > table, and use it in DAO code with it just like any other TableDef. I > wouldn't go crazy with multi-ODBC-table joins, though. > > Alas, you can't write normal update, insert or delete queries against an > ODBC tabledef, as the underlying recordset is not updateable. > > For that, you will need the aforementioned ODBC Pass-through queries, and > use some method for storing the base SQL like Robert's. > > You can call stored procedures this way, but for that, I would recommend > using ADO, setting the parameters in code, and calling the procedure > directly. > > -Ken > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving< >> accessd at databaseadvisors.com> >> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Robert, >> >> What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? >> >> I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it >> pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It immediately >> asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for the user name / >> password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any >> time I do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. >> >> Am I missing something? >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 11:55:24 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:55:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D8782FC.1000300@colbyconsulting.com> I tried using that (a week or so ago) and it failed, but I am trying to connect to an IP address over Hamachi and that failed. Just changing the server name from an English name to an IP address failed. OTOH I could open a recordset using the IP address and that worked. There is more to this than meets the eye. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 11:51 AM, Robert wrote: > There is a property in the design view, ODBC Connect String. > > My local development copy looks something like this: > ODBC;DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=tg9078;UID=sa;PWD=monkey;DATABASE=WWCI_Master_Data > > Once that is filled in, you should not get any more hits asking you for that info. > > At 09:27 AM 3/19/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D834D8C.4040806 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Robert, >> >> What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? >> >> I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it pass-through by changing the >> sql specific to pass through. It immediately asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me >> for the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any time I >> do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. >> >> Am I missing something? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 12:53:16 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:53:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4D87908C.80806@colbyconsulting.com> Them Aussies .... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 10:01 AM, David McAfee wrote: > I was watching a home gardening show this weekend and one person tells the > other "tug on it a little" or "give me a little tug". > > The host, who is Australian, said "that would mean something completely > different in Australia " > > :) > > Sent from my Droid phone. > On Mar 20, 2011 6:07 PM, "Darren - Active Billing"< > darren at activebilling.com.au> wrote: >> Howdy >> It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a > phone >> (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. >> Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the > same >> way the Yanks do... >> >> That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- >> "I rooted my droid X last night" >> Hmm - And then Charlottes response:- >> "I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" >> Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. >> Andy - Comments please. >> Snigger >> >> From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 16:36:07 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 14:36:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: My phone didn't handle tethering until Android 2.2. That's one of the features previously unavailable for me. I have Evernote, but I confess, I've never used it. I used OneNote when I had a Windows phone and kind of miss that functionality. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Rusty Hammond wrote: > pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root > my phone to use it. > > Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, > home computer - have access to my notes anywhere > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 22:20:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 23:20:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: <4D881580.9000300@colbyconsulting.com> I am now able to use (barely) PDANet. It connects but is very slow, about 125 kbit up and oddly, about 225K down. I can't ping any ip number directly but I can ping google.com though the response is slow. I am able to browse things like newegg but it is just very slow. But it does work. I had to disable my other network interfaces though. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 5:36 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > My phone didn't handle tethering until Android 2.2. That's one of the > features previously unavailable for me. I have Evernote, but I > confess, I've never used it. I used OneNote when I had a Windows > phone and kind of miss that functionality. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Rusty Hammond wrote: >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root >> my phone to use it. >> >> Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, >> home computer - have access to my notes anywhere >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA >> Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps >> >> What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? >> >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> ********************************************************************** >> WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, >> scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. >> corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review >> by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. >> ********************************************************************** >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Tue Mar 22 08:04:38 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 08:04:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com><49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0C1@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> I missed some of the features in OneNote when I first started with Evernote, but the ability to get to the notes from whatever device I'm using makes up for it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps My phone didn't handle tethering until Android 2.2. That's one of the features previously unavailable for me. I have Evernote, but I confess, I've never used it. I used OneNote when I had a Windows phone and kind of miss that functionality. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Rusty Hammond wrote: > pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to > root my phone to use it. > > Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, > home computer - have access to my notes anywhere > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or > review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From rlister at actuarial-files.com Tue Mar 22 10:08:33 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:08:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Message-ID: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Mar 22 10:13:09 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:13:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709B04@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Not very good but it can be done in ms paint. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 22 10:29:41 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 08:29:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 Message-ID: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all of my customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development from there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing development and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more back ups - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. TIA Rocky From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 10:44:21 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:44:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: There's a freebie called IconThief that can open Exes and DLLs and grab their iconic contents, saving them to a file. c.f. http://hem.passagen.se/kajetan/thief.html. HTH, Arthur On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create > icon > files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 10:50:52 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:50:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet -- very selective business for now. Susan H. > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all of > my > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development from > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing development > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more back > ups > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > Didn't see any on the web site. > > TIA > > Rocky From jengross at gte.net Tue Mar 22 12:02:52 2011 From: jengross at gte.net (Jennifer Gross) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:02:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed - question for Lambert In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003f01cbe8b2$fba023f0$1201a8c0@Schroeder> Hi Lambert, Would you share your code for opening and keeping open this recordset. I have always shied away from global variables, but it seems that this would need one to keep it open. I would like to see how you do it so that I know I am on the right track. Thanks, Jennifer Gross -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed I just open a recordset on a table in the back end (as it happens a dedicated dummy table that is not used for anything else) in a Front End application form that opens hidden when the application starts up. That form's main purpose in life is to check if any user is not doing anything for n minutes, and if so it automatically shuts the database down. In the Close event of the form the recordset object is closed. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed That sounds more elegant than the code I found. Would you mind sharing the code? Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed Persistent connection means that you open one recordset to each BE and *hold it open*. What this does for you is gets the lock used to open the BE and holds it open. It is that first "connect to the BE file" lock that takes the longest and can be quite time consuming (5-10 seconds) if there are dozens of users in the BE. I have written code which opens a recordset and stores a pointer to the open recordset in a list. I actually use about a half dozen BEs at one client so I have a half dozen recordsets open and held open. I went so far as to create a tblHoldOpen with zero records in it, one tblHoldOpen in each BE. I then open a recordset SELECT * FROM tblHoldOpenXYZ. These are LINKED to tblHoldopen in BE XYZ. So i open each tblHoldOpen in each BE and then throw a pointer to that recordset into a collection where it stays open until the FE closes. Voila, persistent connections. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/10/2011 10:01 AM, jm.hwsn wrote: > Good points Jim, thanks. > I have turned off the sub-datasheets... I usually do that regardless > of the version. > I don't have any control over the servers, but I can ask them to make > some changes. > I never thought about the virus scan... I'll check into that. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:52 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed > > Jim, > > The exclusive point is in regards to the FE in a split design, which > each user should have their own copy of, so opening exclusive would be > appropriate. > > Some other items: > > 1. Make sure the new ACE DB's are not being virus scanned. Since the > extension has changed, anti-virus sometimes kicks in. > > 2. Turn off the sub datasheets feature on all tables (FE and BE). Not > specific to A2007, but often overlooked. > > 3. Turning off OPLOCKs on the server, but that impacts all apps and > again, this applies to all versions (not A2007 specifically). > > 4. Often, A2007 is used in conjunction with a new server like 2008. > It appears that the SMB 2.0 specification is giving some apps > headaches, although this is not fully clear yet. Some report the app > works better when the server is forced to use SMB 1.0 protocol, others > 2.0, so your mileage may vary. > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 08:58 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed > > Access 2007 is inherently slow on a network configured using FE/BE scenario. > > I have scoured several websites and spent a lot of hours, to see if > A2007 can be modified to speed it up. > > Several "tips" were obscure on the sites and might only be mentioned > in passing. > > Here is what I've found: > > 1) ensure there is a persistent connection to the BE. Code can be > found on the FMS, Inc. site. > > 2) Ensure the BE location is in a "Trusted Location" in the FE. > > 3) Change record-level locking. I set the following: > > OLE/DDE timeout: 30 > > Refresh interval: 30 > > Number of update retries: 2 > > ODBC refresh interval: 120 > > Update retry interval: 250 > > 4) Turn off unused user interface features such as: Show animations > and Show Smart Tags on Datasheets > > > > In my somewhat limited test, my FE runs almost as fast as an > integrated file. I know it's running little slower, but I can barely > see the difference > - I can live with it. The biggest improvement came when I did 2 and 3 > above. I still haven't done or tested number 1 above. > > > > Other items that are recommended are: > > change the default open mode: Exclusive > > default record locking: Edited Record. > > However, I don't think these would work with a shared BE. I don't > think there is a way to make these different for two separate files. > > > > Do you have any other ideas or words of wisdom or comments? > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jengross at gte.net Tue Mar 22 12:02:52 2011 From: jengross at gte.net (Jennifer Gross) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:02:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004001cbe8b2$fc01f300$1201a8c0@Schroeder> If you decide not to build your own there are several websites out there with free icons, like http://www.iconarchive.com/ Jennifer Gross -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Icon Files There's a freebie called IconThief that can open Exes and DLLs and grab their iconic contents, saving them to a file. c.f. http://hem.passagen.se/kajetan/thief.html. HTH, Arthur On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create > icon > files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Robert at WeBeDb.com Tue Mar 22 11:06:09 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:06:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: John, If you are using the IP address, you might try adding a comma and 1433 at the end of the IP address. That is the port SQL Server. listens on by default. Change the 1433 to the port if you have changed the default. We found on some connections that we needed to do that before it would connect properly. We also saw that when using the name for the server on some connections. There was no real consistency to it. Robert At 10:29 AM 3/22/2011, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:55:24 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D8782FC.1000300 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >I tried using that (a week or so ago) and it failed, but I am trying >to connect to an IP address >over Hamachi and that failed. Just changing the server name from an >English name to an IP address >failed. OTOH I could open a recordset using the IP address and that worked. > >There is more to this than meets the eye. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Mar 22 12:11:44 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:11:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access replication Message-ID: <000501cbe8b4$390ea710$5bdea8c0@edz1> Can't anyone please direct me to a simple example of using Access replication ? I am using MsAccess 2000 and 2003. Also isn't there some kind of stripped down version of MSFT's SQL server for operations on the desk top ? Where would find that to work on W2K ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 11:16:56 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:16:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access replication In-Reply-To: <000501cbe8b4$390ea710$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <000501cbe8b4$390ea710$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: Replication isn't simple, but it doesn't need to be overly complicated. What are you trying to achieve with it? Charlotte Foust On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > ?Can't anyone please direct me to a simple > ?example of using Access replication ? > > ?I am using MsAccess 2000 and 2003. > > ?Also isn't there some kind of stripped > ?down version of MSFT's SQL server for > ?operations on the desk top ? > > ?Where would find that to work on W2K ? > > ?Thanks. > > ?Sincerely, > ?Ed Zuris. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 22 11:18:01 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:18:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> Yeah still beta I guess from the web site. Just got wind of it so I'm curious. If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid of that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from wherever. Just a romantic notion. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet -- very selective business for now. Susan H. > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all > of my customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > development from there? What about the lag time of manipulating an > app, doing development and testing, on a remote server? It would be > convenient - no more back ups > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > Didn't see any on the web site. > > TIA > > Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 11:22:19 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:22:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: Hi Ralf: For taking a larger picture and rendering it down into an icon size there is a free generator app online: http://www.htmlkit.com/services/favicon/ It creates in a couple of sizes and formats. (An initial strong simple designs work best) I am assuming you already have a graphic editor to either create or edit the original image. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 11:25:18 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:25:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> Message-ID: <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> Absolutely true. I think you could make that happen now, but I don't understand all the logistics. Some publishers would like me to cover it, but nobody can get in the beta! Right now, you have to be a really big company with lots of users. Susan H. > Yeah still beta I guess from the web site. Just got wind of it so I'm > curious. If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid of > that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from wherever. > Just a romantic notion. > > R From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 11:31:27 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:31:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Absolutely true. I think you could make that happen now, but I don't understand all the logistics. Some publishers would like me to cover it, but nobody can get in the beta! Right now, you have to be a really big company with lots of users. Susan H. > Yeah still beta I guess from the web site. Just got wind of it so I'm > curious. If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid of > that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from wherever. > Just a romantic notion. > > R -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Tue Mar 22 11:31:59 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:31:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: Here is an Icon editor I use. You can edit other Icons with it. Cost $20 US but there is a free shareware trial. I've also used Snagit to get a picture of an Icon I wanted to make and pasted to it. http://www.iconedit2.com/ Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 11:41:20 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:41:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005><003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, but not this time. I signed up months ago... Susan H. > There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 11:57:02 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:57:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, but not this time. I signed up months ago... Susan H. > There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rlister at actuarial-files.com Tue Mar 22 11:59:57 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:59:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <001801cbe8b2$94578ee0$bd06aca0$@com> A huge thank you to you all for helping me with my icon stuff. Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia De: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] En nombre de Steve Turner Enviado el: Martes, 22 de Marzo de 2011 12:32 p.m. Para: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Asunto: Re: [AccessD] Icon Files Here is an Icon editor I use. You can edit other Icons with it. Cost $20 US but there is a free shareware trial. I've also used Snagit to get a picture of an Icon I wanted to make and pasted to it. http://www.iconedit2.com/ Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So? do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3522 - Release Date: 03/22/11 From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 12:06:39 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:06:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005><003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins><317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> Bah... I'm absolutely nobody -- they've never even heard of me. Now, I am surprised that they're not letting the major publishers in yet -- at least, none that I work with. Far as I know, no individuals are in the beta -- well, probably the MVPs, folks like that. Susan H. > If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? > > Jim > > In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, > but not this time. > > I signed up months ago... > > Susan H. > > >> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 12:09:36 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:09:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: Sounds like something that would work for Colby's current project. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all of my > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development from > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing development > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more back ups > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > Didn't see any on the web site. > > TIA > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 12:51:04 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:51:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Susan: Don't we have a few MVP folks in our midst? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Bah... I'm absolutely nobody -- they've never even heard of me. Now, I am surprised that they're not letting the major publishers in yet -- at least, none that I work with. Far as I know, no individuals are in the beta -- well, probably the MVPs, folks like that. Susan H. > If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? > > Jim > > In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, > but not this time. > > I signed up months ago... > > Susan H. > > >> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 13:49:36 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:49:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: My Microsoft Partner status - part of the Action Pack Subscription - let me ask to be part of the Beta. But it was sure to tell me that NOT EVERYONE WILL GET A SPOT. GK On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Susan: > > Don't we have a few MVP folks in our midst? > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:07 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Bah... I'm absolutely nobody -- they've never even heard of me. Now, I am > surprised that they're not letting the major publishers in yet -- at least, > none that I work with. Far as I know, no individuals are in the beta -- > well, probably the MVPs, folks like that. > > > Susan H. > > >> If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? >> >> Jim >> >> In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, >> but not this time. >> >> I signed up months ago... >> >> Susan H. >> >> >>> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 14:04:58 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 15:04:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005><003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins><317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins><0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins><822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <13B3D772D7BE4FFE9C4A7BCFCA898FE8@SusanHarkins> Did you apply? Susan H. > My Microsoft Partner status - part of the Action Pack Subscription - > let me ask to be part of the Beta. But it was sure to tell me that NOT > EVERYONE WILL GET A SPOT. From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 14:35:14 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 14:35:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <13B3D772D7BE4FFE9C4A7BCFCA898FE8@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <13B3D772D7BE4FFE9C4A7BCFCA898FE8@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I did ask to be part of the beta. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > Did you apply? > Susan H. > >> My Microsoft Partner status - part of the Action Pack Subscription - >> let me ask to be part of the Beta. But it was sure to tell me that NOT >> EVERYONE WILL GET A SPOT. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 22 14:54:07 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 05:54:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <4D88FE5F.25610.8A1D989@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Use your favourite graphics program to create it in any multiple of 16x16 pixels and then use Irfanview to resize it and convert it to .ico. -- Stuart On 22 Mar 2011 at 11:08, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you > create icon files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 22 14:57:52 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 05:57:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, , <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D88FF40.17779.8A5465F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You still need a good internet connection for it. If you are moving around and don't know what sort of internet connection you will be using next week, you would be better of using and carrying around a development laptop (which is what I do). On 22 Mar 2011 at 9:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid > of that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from > wherever. Just a romantic notion. > > R > From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 22 16:44:15 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:44:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] test Message-ID: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> John B -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 22 16:51:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 07:51:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4D8919E9.31595.90D6BEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> IMNSHO, all such advertisements on emails passed through filtering products turn the products themselves into spam engines. They are definitely trying to sell their product and I did not ask to receive their advertising. I would not use them on principle. -- Stuart On 22 Mar 2011 at 16:44, John Bartow wrote: > John B > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Mar 22 17:06:21 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (edzedz at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 22:06:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I have been having trouble replying to an email. What is going on ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "DBA-Access" Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:44:15 PM Subject: [AccessD] test John B -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 22 17:21:38 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:21:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <4D8919E9.31595.90D6BEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> <4D8919E9.31595.90D6BEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <00bb01cbe8df$836b4ef0$8a41ecd0$@winhaven.net> Yeah, sorry about that. I keep manually turning off the add-in because I can't find my reg. # for it. But I forgot this time. The product works good where needed but their advertising is annoying if you don't pay for it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] test IMNSHO, all such advertisements on emails passed through filtering products turn the products themselves into spam engines. They are definitely trying to sell their product and I did not ask to receive their advertising. I would not use them on principle. -- Stuart From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 22 17:21:38 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:21:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <00bf01cbe8df$84909510$8db1bf30$@winhaven.net> I'm not sure yet. John Colby emailed me off line so I went in to see what was happening and everything seemed to check out OK. I'm cc-ing the List master on this. I guess he'll have to do his magic. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of edzedz at comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] test I have been having trouble replying to an email. What is going on ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "DBA-Access" Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:44:15 PM Subject: [AccessD] test John B -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kismert at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 18:12:43 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:12:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Message-ID: Two programs I use: IcoFX: http://icofx.ro/ Free donation-ware Supports Windows 7, Macintosh, and Web PNG-style icons, with alpha-blended transparency. This one is very easy to use, and up-to-date. Inkscape http://inkscape.org/ Open source GNU GPLv2 SVG vector editor. Version 0.48.1 is a major step forward, and supports several modes for creating Icon-style graphics. This program is much more challenging to use, but it can produce first rate icon graphics. Vector graphics are inherently scalable, so it is simple to produce all icon sizes from a single drawing. Inkscape exports to png bitmap, and converts to vector formats like xaml, eps, pdf, emf, and others. -Ken -----Original Message----- > Ralf Lister: > > Hello, > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create > icon > files? > From kathryn at bassett.net Tue Mar 22 18:30:09 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:30:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <006501cbe8e9$15e7ae00$41b70a00$@net> http://www.favicon.co.uk/ > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:09 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files > > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon > files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > From kathryn at bassett.net Tue Mar 22 18:32:23 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:32:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps Message-ID: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Rusty said: > pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root > my phone to use it. I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a Samsung Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying Verizon for tethering. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:16:33 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:16:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. Tethering is built into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. Charlotte Foust On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > Rusty said: >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root >> my phone to use it. > > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a Samsung > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying > Verizon for tethering. > > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:20:06 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:20:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: It's an added monthly cost, now that Verizon and AT&T offer it. $20/month IIRC On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market > (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. Tethering is built > into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett > wrote: > > Rusty said: > >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root > >> my phone to use it. > > > > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a > Samsung > > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in > > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying > > Verizon for tethering. > > > > > > -- > > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > > kathryn at bassett.net > > http://bassett.net > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:37:22 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:37:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: Over and above the unlimited data plan? Charlotte Foust On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM, David McAfee wrote: > It's an added monthly cost, now that Verizon and AT&T offer it. > > $20/month IIRC > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Charlotte Foust > wrote: > >> My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market >> (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. ?Tethering is built >> into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett >> wrote: >> > Rusty said: >> >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root >> >> my phone to use it. >> > >> > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a >> Samsung >> > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in >> > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying >> > Verizon for tethering. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) >> > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" >> > kathryn at bassett.net >> > http://bassett.net >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Tue Mar 22 19:55:39 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:55:39 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <8014C171AFE944879C38E8363D8226AF@stevelaptop> Ralf, I use Axialis IconWorkshop. It is a totally brilliant product. I see they are currently offering it for $US25. http://www.axialis.com/ Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Ralf Lister Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:08 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? From kismert at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:58:32 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 19:58:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Message-ID: Some free icon library sources: famfamfam http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/ A popular free icon source. IconEden -- Free Vector Icons http://www.iconeden.com/icon/category/free My personal favorite, load into Inkscape, and modify for your needs. Great examples of how to build vector images. p.yusukekamiyamane http://p.yusukekamiyamane.com/ Free if attribution is given. IconPot http://www.iconpot.com/ Please respect the licensing terms of the various icon authors. -Ken From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Mar 22 20:33:57 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 21:33:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PPT to Video In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com>, , <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au>, Message-ID: <000001cbe8fa$61b4d4a0$251e7de0$@net> I think you want Camtasia by TechSmith..... > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jurgen Welz > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 12:14 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT: PPT to Video > > > I've been searching for a decent PowerPoint to video converter so as to > burn some DVDs of some PowerPoint marketing material. > > So far the free stuff yeilds crappy results and the trial stuff isn't > much better. Does anyone have a suggestion of something free or > inexpensive that yeilds high quality results? > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Mar 22 21:04:58 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 22:04:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 22 23:24:42 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 21:24:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> Message-ID: Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 23 03:38:25 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:38:25 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B2569CA@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Have a look at live at Edu this will give you some idea of what it's like. Add in SharePoint and your almost there. Martin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: 23 March 2011 02:05 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 23 05:22:42 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 06:22:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> Message-ID: Macros are the answer! Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 05:30:39 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 20:30:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, , Message-ID: <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) -- Stuart On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Macros are the answer! > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:25 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > One minor problem: > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it > > yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > > all > > of > > > my > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > > from > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > development > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > > back > > > ups > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing > > > yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > Rocky > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 11:49:45 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:49:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > One minor problem: > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it > > > yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > > > all > > > of > > > > my > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > > > from > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > development > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > > > back > > > > ups > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing > > > > yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > Rocky > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 12:00:44 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:00:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: I believe so, but I'm not sure if it is a physical connection (USB) tether or the mobile wifi/hotspot option, or both. If you didn't receive the text message that they sent out the other day, you should be ok. I think is complete BS. Uunlimited data, should be that. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Over and above the unlimited data plan? > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM, David McAfee > wrote: > > It's an added monthly cost, now that Verizon and AT&T offer it. > > > > $20/month IIRC > > > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Charlotte Foust > > wrote: > > > >> My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market > >> (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. Tethering is built > >> into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. > >> > >> Charlotte Foust > >> > >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett > >> wrote: > >> > Rusty said: > >> >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to > root > >> >> my phone to use it. > >> > > >> > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a > >> Samsung > >> > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in > >> > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying > >> > Verizon for tethering. > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > >> > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > >> > kathryn at bassett.net > >> > http://bassett.net > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 23 12:11:15 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:11:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook Calendars (a bit OT) Message-ID: <671D5178AF944D1691C710DA6840737D@HAL9005> Dear List: I have a client who recently installed a server and they added a shared calendar to their Outlook (Firm calendar) which is on the server. So everyone has access to the Firm calendar and their local calendar on their own comp. The problem is that they can set alerts for their local calendar but not for the shared calendar. Outlook tells them when they add a item to the Firm calendar that they cannot set alerts because "the item is not in a folder that supports reminders". Sometimes they get a second notice that the Firm calendar is not the primary calendar so the responses will not be tallied. They would like to be able to set alerts for both calendars. Can this be done? If not they would like alerts for the Firm calendar. But I'm no good with Outlook. Any guidance on this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 14:03:15 2011 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:03:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: You are going to need to be more specific. Do the emails not show up? Are you getting bounces? Are you not getting answers? etc, etc, etc. The more info YOU give, the better answer we can give. Bryan On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 6:06 PM, wrote: > > I have been having trouble replying to an email. > > What is going on ? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "DBA-Access" > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:44:15 PM > Subject: [AccessD] test > > John B > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Wed Mar 23 14:34:46 2011 From: listmaster at databaseadvisors.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:34:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - Spam Filtering on DBA Servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We have made a change to the way our mailservers deal with spam filtering. We were getting too many false positive reports from one of the spam black list services we use, so we have discontinued using them. Hopefully your bounce troubles should be over, or at the very least greatly minimized. If you continue to have issues surrounding bounces, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE get in touch with me (listmaster at databaseadvisors OR carbonnb at gmail.com if the listmaster address bounces). -- Bryan Carbonnell - listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 23 15:41:12 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:41:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Test Message Message-ID: <005001cbe99a$a6977410$5bdea8c0@edz1> This is a test to see if I get a bounce. From garykjos at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 14:55:17 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:55:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Test Message In-Reply-To: <005001cbe99a$a6977410$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <005001cbe99a$a6977410$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: Got it here Edward. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > ?This is a test to see if I get a bounce. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 23 16:05:37 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:05:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Test Message In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201cbe99e$0f95ef20$5bdea8c0@edz1> It is working. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Test Message Got it here Edward. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > ?This is a test to see if I get a bounce. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 23 15:57:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:57:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] test Message-ID: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> test - was bouncing! -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 16:02:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:02:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console Message-ID: I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display status of events that are happening. After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does in a DOS window. Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar down? If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete everything up to the first VBCRLF. Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? Thanks, David From carbonnb at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 16:02:42 2011 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:02:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Now not bouncing. On 2011-03-23 4:59 PM, "jwcolby" wrote: > test - was bouncing! > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 23 16:08:19 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:08:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <88DC0D9EDDB64C58AEE9B36CF615ED34@HAL9005> After adding to the text box, could you find the total length of the text in the text box and do a .SelStart at that position? Would that work? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Faux console I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display status of events that are happening. After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does in a DOS window. Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar down? If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete everything up to the first VBCRLF. Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? Thanks, David -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Wed Mar 23 16:25:52 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:25:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: <006f01cbe9a0$e318bec0$a94a3c40$@net> Verizon charges $30/month for the data plan and $30/month for tethering. The data plan is per month included in your contract. The tethering can get turned on and off and you pay a pro-rated amount for the time actually turned on. Before pdaNet, I would turn on tethering before a long weekend, and turn off when I returned, paying for the 3, 4, 5 days only. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > I believe so, but I'm not sure if it is a physical connection (USB) tether > or the mobile wifi/hotspot option, or both. > > If you didn't receive the text message that they sent out the other day, you > should be ok. > > I think is complete BS. Uunlimited data, should be that. > > > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Charlotte Foust > wrote: > > > Over and above the unlimited data plan? > > > > Charlotte Foust From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 16:49:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 07:49:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. -- Stuart On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > Jim. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > One minor problem: > > > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for > > > > it yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to > > > > > put all > > > > of > > > > > my > > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > > > > > development > > > > from > > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > > development > > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no > > > > > more > > > > back > > > > > ups > > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any > > > > > pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:02:20 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:02:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: <88DC0D9EDDB64C58AEE9B36CF615ED34@HAL9005> References: <88DC0D9EDDB64C58AEE9B36CF615ED34@HAL9005> Message-ID: I was looking at that at first, but I think it required the "console" to have focus, and I just wanted to update it. I got it working: Private Sub UpdateStatus(StatusText As String) Dim intCurrPos As Integer Dim intNumberOfVbCrLFs As Integer, intFirstVbCrLf As Integer, FoundVbCrLf As Integer intCurrPos = 1 Me.txtStatus = Me.txtStatus + StatusText & vbCrLf Do Until intCurrPos >= Len(Me.txtStatus.Value) FoundVbCrLf = InStr(intCurrPos, Me.txtStatus.Value, vbCrLf) If FoundVbCrLf Then 'found If intFirstVbCrLf = 0 Then intFirstVbCrLf = FoundVbCrLf intCurrPos = FoundVbCrLf + 2 intNumberOfVbCrLFs = intNumberOfVbCrLFs + 1 If intCurrPos > Len(Me.txtStatus.Value) Then Exit Do Else 'not found intCurrPos = intCurrPos + 1 End If Loop If intNumberOfVbCrLFs > 16 Then Me.txtStatus = Right(Me.txtStatus.Value, Len(Me.txtStatus.Value) - (intFirstVbCrLf + 1)) End Sub On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > After adding to the text box, could you find the total length of the text > in > the text box and do a .SelStart at that position? Would that work? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:03 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Faux console > > I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display > status > of events that are happening. > > After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. > > The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does in a > DOS window. > > Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar down? > > If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete > everything up to the first VBCRLF. > > Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? > > Thanks, > David > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:03:11 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:03:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Sadly, me too. :( On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > > -- > Stuart > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > > wrote: > > > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > > > Jim. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > One minor problem: > > > > > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for > > > > > it yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to > > > > > > put all > > > > > of > > > > > > my > > > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > > > > > > development > > > > > from > > > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > > > development > > > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no > > > > > > more > > > > > back > > > > > > ups > > > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any > > > > > > pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 17:10:44 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:10:44 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Message-ID: <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In tab. Am I doing something wrong? Public Sub basSetProperties() basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" End Sub Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue basSetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_basSetProperty: Exit Function Err_basSetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else basSetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_basSetProperty End If End Function Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > >Carolyn Johnson From cjlabs at att.net Wed Mar 23 17:19:34 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:19:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> That looks like what I use. Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In tab. Am I doing something wrong? Public Sub basSetProperties() basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" End Sub Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue basSetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_basSetProperty: Exit Function Err_basSetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else basSetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_basSetProperty End If End Function Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > >Carolyn Johnson -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 17:20:13 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:20:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D8A721D.3979.339251D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I normally use a listbox for this. Set the rowsource to Value List and make sure that it is not sorted. Function AddToLogList(strData) 'Add new item to the end lstLog.Additem(strData) 'Remove first item if list is now too long If lstLog.Listcount > 50 then lstLog.RemoveItem(0) end if 'Move to last item in list lstLog = strData End Function On 23 Mar 2011 at 14:02, David McAfee wrote: > I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display > status of events that are happening. > > After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. > > The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does > in a DOS window. > > Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar > down? > > If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete > everything up to the first VBCRLF. > > Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? > > Thanks, > David > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 17:36:19 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:36:19 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> Message-ID: <20110323223717.WJFG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I have a number of custom menus but all forms and reports have a custom menu assigned to them. David At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >That looks like what I use. > >Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? > >Carolyn Johnson > > >----- Original Message ----- > From: David Emerson > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that > opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and > am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In > tab. Am I doing something wrong? > > Public Sub basSetProperties() > > basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" > basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" > ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" > > End Sub > > Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long > > On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > Set db = CurrentDb > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > basSetProperty = True > Set db = Nothing > > Exit_basSetProperty: > Exit Function > > Err_basSetProperty: > If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found > Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, > varPropValue) > db.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > basSetProperty = False > MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description > Resume Exit_basSetProperty > End If > > End Function > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > > At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of > >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the > >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do > >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > > > >Carolyn Johnson From cjlabs at att.net Wed Mar 23 17:40:44 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:40:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell><20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> <20110323223717.WJFG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: And one of them is called MenuBarMenus? That's the menu bar on the first form? Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I have a number of custom menus but all forms and reports have a custom menu assigned to them. David At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >That looks like what I use. > >Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? > >Carolyn Johnson > > >----- Original Message ----- > From: David Emerson > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that > opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and > am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In > tab. Am I doing something wrong? > > Public Sub basSetProperties() > > basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" > basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" > ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" > > End Sub > > Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long > > On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > Set db = CurrentDb > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > basSetProperty = True > Set db = Nothing > > Exit_basSetProperty: > Exit Function > > Err_basSetProperty: > If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found > Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, > varPropValue) > db.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > basSetProperty = False > MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description > Resume Exit_basSetProperty > End If > > End Function > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > > At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of > >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the > >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do > >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > > > >Carolyn Johnson -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:46:15 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:46:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: <4D8A721D.3979.339251D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D8A721D.3979.339251D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: ooh, and much more simple! On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I normally use a listbox for this. Set the rowsource to Value List and make > sure that it is not > sorted. > > Function AddToLogList(strData) > 'Add new item to the end > lstLog.Additem(strData) > > 'Remove first item if list is now too long > If lstLog.Listcount > 50 then > lstLog.RemoveItem(0) > end if > > 'Move to last item in list > lstLog = strData > End Function > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 14:02, David McAfee wrote: > > > I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display > > status of events that are happening. > > > > After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. > > > > The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does > > in a DOS window. > > > > Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar > > down? > > > > If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete > > everything up to the first VBCRLF. > > > > Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? > > > > Thanks, > > David > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 17:56:41 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:56:41 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> <20110323223717.WJFG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20110323225725.YMLG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Yes - that is the menu in the menu bar property. Could I send you the file off line to test to see if you have the same result? It is a basic app with no tables and four forms? David At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >And one of them is called MenuBarMenus? That's the menu bar on the >first form? > >Carolyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Emerson > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:36 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > I have a number of custom menus but all forms and reports have a > custom menu assigned to them. > > David > > At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > >That looks like what I use. > > > >Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? > > > >Carolyn Johnson > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Emerson > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > > > > I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that > > opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and > > am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In > > tab. Am I doing something wrong? > > > > Public Sub basSetProperties() > > > > basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False > > > > basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True > > > > basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" > > basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" > > ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" > > > > End Sub > > > > Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > > Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long > > > > On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty > > > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > > Set db = CurrentDb > > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > > basSetProperty = True > > Set db = Nothing > > > > Exit_basSetProperty: > > Exit Function > > > > Err_basSetProperty: > > If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found > > Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, > > varPropValue) > > db.Properties.Append prp > > Resume Next > > Else > > basSetProperty = False > > MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description > > Resume Exit_basSetProperty > > End If > > > > End Function > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand > > > > At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > > >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of > > >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the > > >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do > > >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > > > > > >Carolyn Johnson > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ramzcbu at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 19:52:07 2011 From: ramzcbu at gmail.com (Ramz .) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:52:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: test - was bouncing... From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 23 22:05:08 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:05:08 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA Message-ID: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Folks, I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design mode. WTF? Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I am going about it completely the wrong way. Access 2003 BTW... Regards Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 22:21:25 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:21:25 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA In-Reply-To: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <20110324032200.PYDO26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Darryl, Try the Caption property instead. Me.tabIntro.Pages(1).Caption = "Acceptance Criteria (" & gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 24/03/2011, Darryl Collins wrote: >_______________________________________________________________________________________ > >Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >bottom of this message. >_______________________________________________________________________________________ > > >Hi Folks, > >I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. > >Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & >gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" > >but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a >very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design mode. WTF? > >Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to >set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I >am going about it completely the wrong way. > >Access 2003 BTW... > >Regards >Darryl. > >_____________________________________ > >Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer >Retail Business Insurance >Insurance Australia Group (IAG) >Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia >Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 >Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 22:23:18 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 13:23:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA In-Reply-To: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D8AB926.1156.D1768A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Why would you want to change the Name property of any control at runtime. It will break all references to the control. Are you sure it isn't the Caption that you want to change? -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 14:05, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi Folks, > > I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. > > Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & > gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" > > but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a > very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design > mode. WTF? > > Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to > set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I > am going about it completely the wrong way. > > Access 2003 BTW... > > Regards > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 23 22:37:57 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:37:57 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA In-Reply-To: <4D8AB926.1156.D1768A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201103240338.p2O3c5VQ020670@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ aaaah, Yes, Gentlemen, this is exactly what I need, along with more than the 5 hours sleep a night I have gotten for the past two nights. Of course it would be Caption and not Name. Oddly, I did actually know that, but hey... stupid does what stupid does when having a brain freeze and major senior moment. Thanks guys. Appreciate the heads up - back on track. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2011 2:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA Why would you want to change the Name property of any control at runtime. It will break all references to the control. Are you sure it isn't the Caption that you want to change? -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 14:05, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi Folks, > > I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. > > Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & > gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" > > but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a > very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design > mode. WTF? > > Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to > set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I > am going about it completely the wrong way. > > Access 2003 BTW... > > Regards > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 01:14:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 23:14:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. -- Stuart On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > Jim. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > One minor problem: > > > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for > > > > it yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to > > > > > put all > > > > of > > > > > my > > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > > > > > development > > > > from > > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > > development > > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no > > > > > more > > > > back > > > > > ups > > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any > > > > > pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 24 07:27:58 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:27:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu Mar 24 07:47:36 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:47:36 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. Martin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to > move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good > money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their > first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the > technology divide are you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* > from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 09:07:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 07:07:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 24 09:41:10 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:41:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> Microsoft still doesn't get it; while people do want new features, first and foremost they want something that works day in and day out. And if it doesn't work, they want it FIXED. Not another version which has a new set of problems and requires more hardware to run. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Thu Mar 24 10:17:48 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:17:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com><74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> Message-ID: Amen to that. I used Firefox almost exclusively till I had to use IE on some particular sites. However When I updated to IE 8 and Somewhere I installed some little program of which I don't know Or the latest Firefox Update caused my print reports in Firefox to quit working. Havn't figured that one out yet and some State sites and the Bank I use I had to switch back to IE to get printouts. I'm thinking it's a MS thing. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Microsoft still doesn't get it; while people do want new features, first and foremost they want something that works day in and day out. And if it doesn't work, they want it FIXED. Not another version which has a new set of problems and requires more hardware to run. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 24 10:26:54 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:26:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not there... Give me a stinkin sandbox ... I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's and children's machines as well. One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were hitting the page file. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 10:37:34 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:37:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: A2007 and Windows Mobile 7 did it for me. A2007, new ribbon and layout, but still leaving old bugs/problems. WM5/6 with SQL Server CE was such an awesome combination. To drop it and force existing apps to be rewritten in Silverlight/XML, made me say "I'm done with new MS technologies". I've had to completely rewrite, existing/working mobile apps because of MS' forcing of new technologies and deprecating totally working systems. If I'm learning something new, it's going to be Android/iPhone programming. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide > are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > > -- > Stuart > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > > wrote: > > > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > > > Jim. > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 11:22:22 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 09:22:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Message-ID: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 11:44:54 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:44:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 12:32:17 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:32:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Jim: I get a compile error on the EOF - argument not optional. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 13:05:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:05:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> Message-ID: <31F23530A68141E1927C3B6C84D83F7F@creativesystemdesigns.com> It is an MS thing. It is how the site was built. The site builder first created the site in IE and that is a far as they went...just a little lazy as IE tends to break a good number of the W3C rules. I first build my sites so they would perfect on Chrome, FF, Safari and Opera, and that may take a week then there is IE and to get it to comply takes another week. (Clients never like paying double for IE compliance. Some have gone so far, in their in Intranet sites as to block IE) It usually requires another set CSS and JS script files, a few patches but using JQuery mostly handles the problems. JQuery usually tries to keep ahead of IE but it can be a difficult task...with every update another set of problems... IE6/IE7/IE8 and now IE9 all work slightly different. I am sure MS IE will eventually compile with the industry standards but I am sure it is a humbling experience for them to realize that, unlike the old days, their standard does not imply the new world standard. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Amen to that. I used Firefox almost exclusively till I had to use IE on some particular sites. However When I updated to IE 8 and Somewhere I installed some little program of which I don't know Or the latest Firefox Update caused my print reports in Firefox to quit working. Havn't figured that one out yet and some State sites and the Bank I use I had to switch back to IE to get printouts. I'm thinking it's a MS thing. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Microsoft still doesn't get it; while people do want new features, first and foremost they want something that works day in and day out. And if it doesn't work, they want it FIXED. Not another version which has a new set of problems and requires more hardware to run. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Thu Mar 24 13:05:43 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 13:05:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003d01cbea4e$180e9a70$482bcf50$@comcast.net> Try: Do While Not Me.Recordset.EOF -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Jim: I get a compile error on the EOF - argument not optional. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 13:14:23 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:14:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser wars: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs-opera -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 Real benchmark testing. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not there... Give me a stinkin sandbox ... I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's and children's machines as well. One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were hitting the page file. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu Mar 24 13:58:02 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 18:58:02 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9662B@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Sent from my Windows Phone Sent from my Windows Phone -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 March 2011 18:16 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser wars: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs-opera -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 Real benchmark testing. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not there... Give me a stinkin sandbox ... I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's and children's machines as well. One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were hitting the page file. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 24 14:59:46 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:59:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Browser wars... In-Reply-To: <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D8BA2B2.5010107@colbyconsulting.com> Now open task manager and click on processes. Sort image name A>Z. Open 10 copies of IE. Open 10 copies of Firefox. I use Google.com as the home page for both. Just observe the number and sizes of the instances of both programs. Close all the instances of both. Open Firefox and then open msnbc.com in the first tab. I use MSNBC.com simply because it is a fairly "heavy" site. Now open five tabs inside of that firefox instance and open msnbc.com in each tab. Do the same with IE. Observe task manager, specifically observe the number of instances of each program and observe the memory used for each instance in task manager. I simply suggest this test because there is more to a browser than the java engine it uses. One of the reasons I switched to Firefox was that (back in the day) I was running a laptop with a half gig of memory. I multitask and I was hitting the swap file all the time. What I discovered was that with a bunch of stuff open, IE was sitting at 400 megs of RAM. When I tried Firefox it would use a hundred megs. It seems both have gotten "fatter" in the years since. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser wars: > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs-opera > -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 > > Real benchmark testing. > > Jim From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 15:32:05 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 13:32:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: <003d01cbea4e$180e9a70$482bcf50$@comcast.net> References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> <003d01cbea4e$180e9a70$482bcf50$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5FD6004813D344ECB0E374785C75E57F@HAL9005> Dan: That works, but the spell check still stops after the first correction. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Try: Do While Not Me.Recordset.EOF -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Jim: I get a compile error on the EOF - argument not optional. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 24 15:44:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:44:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk>, <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8BAD1A.5229.282E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Why the h*** should I have to go into Internet Explorer options to make an application run properly over the LAN? Even just to make WIndows Help work properly!!!! -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 11:26, jwcolby wrote: > I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have > never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to > allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not > there... From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 24 15:58:39 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:58:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com>, <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D8BB07F.282.290246E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That's basically just Javascript interpretation speed. And their is very little difference between the various browsers. To me there are a lot more important issues such as "security crap", memory usage, user interface, capabilities. In my case, I use Firefox because there are a some Addons which drastically improve my productivity. -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 11:14, Jim Lawrence wrote: > For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser > wars: > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs > -opera -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 > > Real benchmark testing. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:27 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I > dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have > never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to > allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not > there... > > Give me a stinkin sandbox ... > > I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird > and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's > and children's machines as well. > > One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is > pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for > awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It > used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were > hitting the page file. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use > > whatever > opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if > it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I > can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and > problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone > has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, > "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. > Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has > refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft > claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as > good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into > the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide > are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no > use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that > site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox > winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE > only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On > 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft > will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers > along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently > the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first > warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> > technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original > Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> > McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are > forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than > simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 16:45:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:45:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Message-ID: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Dear List: I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter" I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the second machine where it's a period on the first machine? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 24 17:04:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:04:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export In-Reply-To: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> References: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D8BC006.15776.2CCCC9F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Almost certainly the case. The comma is used as a decimal character in a lot of languages. That's why I always use Tab separated values when I have the choice. -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 14:45, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText > command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well > on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export > fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): > > "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal > separator or text delimiter" > > I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the > second machine where it's a period on the first machine? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 24 17:16:18 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 01:16:18 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export In-Reply-To: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> References: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: Hi Rocky -- That "ancient" sample VBA code http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s/download/imex.htm could help to solve your issue I hope. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 25 ????? 2011 ?. 0:45 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Dear List: I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter" I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the second machine where it's a period on the first machine? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 17:49:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:49:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export In-Reply-To: References: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <96D0BBC235A14AAAAC79CD7FB326E295@HAL9005> Shamil: If I can't solve it with the simple fix of having them changing the decimal character, this looks like a good workaround. Thanks. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Hi Rocky -- That "ancient" sample VBA code http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s/download/imex.htm could help to solve your issue I hope. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 25 ????? 2011 ?. 0:45 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Dear List: I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter" I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the second machine where it's a period on the first machine? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 22:24:23 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:24:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: Problems exporting Data Message-ID: Whew! Rocky _____ From: Hanne Gutjahr [mailto:hanne at co2bambu.com] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:45 PM To: Rocky Smolin Subject: Re: Problems exporting Data Hi Rocky, I changed the settings on the new machine and now it is working. Thanks for your help, Hanne 2011/3/24 Rocky Smolin Hanne: The translation of the error message is: The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter I suspect that in the Regional and Language Options on the new machine the decimal separator is set to comma and on the machine where it is working it is set to period. Is that the case? Click Start-->Control Panel-->Regional and Language Options-->(on regional options tab) Customize... HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com _____ From: Hanne Gutjahr [mailto:hanne at co2bambu.com] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:37 AM To: Rocky Smolin Subject: Re: Problems exporting Data Attached the error report (it is in Spanish though) Putting Office 2003 is not really an alternative as everyone else in the office is working with 2007 so it makes life more complicated having different Office versions... Thanks Hanne 2011/3/24 Rocky Smolin From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 09:45:42 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:45:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Message-ID: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 25 10:21:29 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:21:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 10:34:07 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:34:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4d8cb5f2.afb3ec0a.2ed3.3651@mx.google.com> Thanks Dan. Let me work on these... I'll let you know what I find out. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 25 10:56:52 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:56:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Auto Close a Simple MessageBox Message-ID: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> I found this in an old forum to allow a messagebox to close automatically. I've tried it and it works just fine! '-------------- Alternatively you could use the following code in place of your message box: CreateObject("WScript.Shell").Popup "Test.", 2, "Test" the user can also click the ok button to close the popup, or the popup will automatically close itself after two seconds, and continue on with your macro. replace "Test" with the appropriate message and title, and replace the number 2 with the number of seconds you want the popup to remain. '-------------- Dan From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 12:28:48 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 13:28:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Auto Close a Simple MessageBox In-Reply-To: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Thanks Dan. On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > I found this in an old forum to allow a messagebox to close automatically. > I've tried it and it works just fine! > > '-------------- > Alternatively you could use the following code in place of your message > box: > > CreateObject("WScript.Shell").Popup "Test.", 2, "Test" > > the user can also click the ok button to close the popup, or the popup will > automatically close itself after two seconds, and continue on with your > macro. replace "Test" with the appropriate message and title, and replace > the number 2 with the number of seconds you want the popup to remain. > '-------------- > > Dan > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 25 16:41:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 07:41:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, Message-ID: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx :-) From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 16:48:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:48:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Well, for heaven's sake, why did I spend all that time learning VBA and then VB.Net?? LOL Charlotte Foust On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who want something easy to > use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 16:55:00 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:55:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: That's the route I wish Google would have went with AppInventor insterad of the graphical puzzle blocks of code that they are using. > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want > something easy to > > use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > > > :-) > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Fri Mar 25 16:59:33 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 10:59:33 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> Very cool. Seriously, as the father of a 10-year-old, it is good to know about stuff like that. Thanks, Stuart, I hadn't seen that before! Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] New Language For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx :-) From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 25 17:16:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 08:16:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Yep, I'm about to introduce it to my 8-year-old daughter. -- Stuart On 26 Mar 2011 at 10:59, Steve Schapel wrote: > Very cool. Seriously, as the father of a 10-year-old, it is good to > know about stuff like that. Thanks, Stuart, I hadn't seen that > before! > > Regards > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] New Language > > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want > something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just > the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 25 17:44:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 15:44:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> I guess once we have mastered that link we can go down the page and download Drupal. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 2:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] New Language For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx :-) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 17:51:36 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 15:51:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: When my son was 13 I volunteered to do a weekly computer lab with about 10 kids from his class. I tried to teach them Turtle Logo on Apple IIs. That's when I realized I was destined to be a programmer not a teacher. Doug From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Fri Mar 25 18:12:06 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:12:06 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <17E7406BDC414E848AC1A342A51639AC@stevelaptop> LOL! Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Doug Steele Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language When my son was 13 I volunteered to do a weekly computer lab with about 10 kids from his class. I tried to teach them Turtle Logo on Apple IIs. That's when I realized I was destined to be a programmer not a teacher. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 26 08:50:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:50:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. It was a big wedding too. Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. This might be it. Thanks Stuart. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to > use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 11:01:25 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:01:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Gawd, how times have changed. When my son was small, it was an etch-a-sketch!! Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby wrote: > LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. > > Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be it. > > Thanks Stuart. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >> >> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who want >> something easy to >> use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: >> >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >> >> :-) >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Mar 26 11:08:39 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:08:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <72F56912CF9B418EB4483A5EADFE731E@HAL9005> Max will be telling his grandchildren: "Why when I was a toddler all I had was a CP/M machine with a monochrome monitor. " I put a mouse in his hand when he was about 1 1/2 (1991). He doesn't remember life without a computer. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language Gawd, how times have changed. When my son was small, it was an etch-a-sketch!! Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby wrote: > LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. > > Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be it. > > Thanks Stuart. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >> >> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who >> want something easy to use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have >> just the thing for you: >> >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >> >> :-) >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 11:19:26 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:19:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <72F56912CF9B418EB4483A5EADFE731E@HAL9005> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <72F56912CF9B418EB4483A5EADFE731E@HAL9005> Message-ID: A mouse? The only mice my son encountered were the white ones in the pet shop! LOL Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Max will be telling his grandchildren: "Why when I was a toddler all I had > was a CP/M machine with a monochrome monitor. " > > I put a mouse in his hand when he was about 1 1/2 (1991). ?He doesn't > remember life without a computer. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 9:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language > > Gawd, how times have changed. ?When my son was small, it was an > etch-a-sketch!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. >> >> Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be > it. >> >> Thanks Stuart. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>> >>> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who >>> want something easy to use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have >>> just the thing for you: >>> >>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >>> >>> :-) >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 26 11:51:41 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:51:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/26/2011 12:01 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Gawd, how times have changed. When my son was small, it was an etch-a-sketch!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> LOL. It was a big wedding too. >> >> Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. This might be it. >> >> Thanks Stuart. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>> >>> For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want >>> something easy to >>> use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: >>> >>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >>> >>> :-) >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat Mar 26 13:39:31 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:39:31 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> Hi Stuart --- And this one can be used as a prototyping tool for serious Small Basic young programmers :) http://www.yoyogames.com/gamemaker/ (My 9+ years old son has just made his first "Galactic Burgers" game using this tool :)) BTW, he is playing computer games for several years and his first games were 3D "Spider Man" - and he (as all nowadays kids) can play that games virtuously but he just noted that "old 2D games were much better" - imagine that! :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 26 ????? 2011 ?. 1:17 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language Yep, I'm about to introduce it to my 8-year-old daughter. -- Stuart On 26 Mar 2011 at 10:59, Steve Schapel wrote: > Very cool. Seriously, as the father of a 10-year-old, it is good to > know about stuff like that. Thanks, Stuart, I hadn't seen that > before! > > Regards > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] New Language > > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want > something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just > the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 13:45:46 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 11:45:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Are you already putting your kids to work?? At their tender ages? Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:51 AM, jwcolby wrote: > An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/26/2011 12:01 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> Gawd, how times have changed. ?When my son was small, it was an >> etch-a-sketch!! >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. >>> >>> Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be >>> it. >>> >>> Thanks Stuart. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>>> >>>> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who want >>>> something easy to >>>> use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: >>>> >>>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >>>> >>>> :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 26 16:13:25 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 17:13:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8E56F5.8080800@colbyconsulting.com> Tender age? He turned 10 today. Time to get a job I say! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/26/2011 2:45 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Are you already putting your kids to work?? At their tender ages? > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:51 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun Mar 27 10:52:10 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 08:52:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8E56F5.8080800@colbyconsulting.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E56F5.8080800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Oh, now I understand. He's entering the ugly stage of little boy-hood, so putting him to work is the reasonable remedy! LOL Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 2:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Tender age? ?He turned 10 today. ?Time to get a job I say! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/26/2011 2:45 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> Are you already putting your kids to work?? ?At their tender ages? >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:51 AM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 09:56:20 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 07:56:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> Message-ID: <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on Surrogate keys. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 Jim From jerbach at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:11:34 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:11:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Message-ID: Hello - I have 2 questions for you all. 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing this? 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of thing, please let me know. Thank you! Janet Erbach IT/Office Manager Natural Healthy Concepts www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:13:57 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:13:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) Susan H. > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:19:55 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:19:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question References: Message-ID: <3F133DA9BBCC417CB51AD08071A0508C@SusanHarkins> > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - > I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' > data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? ==========A few questions: 1.) Is the customizations database an Access database? 2.) Are you sure you're actually connecting to the customization database? Regards, Susan H. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Mar 28 10:40:28 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:40:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> I wrote a rather elaborate piece of code behind an Excel 2003 spreadsheet to update data in an Access mdb. Actually the project was to export data from the Access based accounting system to a real complex spreadsheet, which would allow the user to tweak all the numbers, then, when she got it the way she wanted it, import the data from the spreadsheet back into the Access back end. It was all sorts of fun. So I've got the framework and techniques. I'll give it a shot. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Hello - I have 2 questions for you all. 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing this? 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of thing, please let me know. Thank you! Janet Erbach IT/Office Manager Natural Healthy Concepts www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 28 10:42:23 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:42:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4D90AC5F.5020804@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, Susan Susan Susan. Inserting yourself directly in the line of fire! ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/28/2011 11:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:53:07 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:53:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> <4D90AC5F.5020804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: "I can shoot straight, if I don't have to aim too far!" :) Susan H. > LOL, Susan Susan Susan. Inserting yourself directly in the line of fire! > ;) > >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur >> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 11:04:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:04:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Janet: If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a different named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > options > view). Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that it is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and force the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the link-manager etc... Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the DB is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows display can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec macro is run. Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database window" is checked. It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked so just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a number of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be all sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an objects properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple of hours to remove. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Hello - I have 2 questions for you all. 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing this? 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of thing, please let me know. Thank you! Janet Erbach IT/Office Manager Natural Healthy Concepts www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 11:07:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:07:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <59AB58680055496FA846A691B01C5353@creativesystemdesigns.com> Come on Susan, you are not being strident or offensive enough. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) Susan H. > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 11:48:14 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:48:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around the edges in here. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. > > >> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on >> Surrogate keys. >> >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur >> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Mar 28 12:11:18 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:11:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant><11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <439CD325EED644DDB137F9591CEBD9F7@HAL9005> Except if you see Colby in a helicopter, you might want to walk away quietly...(cf. archives under 'Colbyizing") R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 9:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around the edges in here. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. > > >> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) >> on Surrogate keys. >> >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-betwee >> n-a-sur >> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 28 12:24:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:24:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <439CD325EED644DDB137F9591CEBD9F7@HAL9005> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant><11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> <439CD325EED644DDB137F9591CEBD9F7@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D90C439.9020303@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. Who, *me*? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/28/2011 1:11 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Except if you see Colby in a helicopter, you might want to walk away > quietly...(cf. archives under 'Colbyizing") > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 9:48 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys > > Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around the > edges in here. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: >> I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) >> >> Susan H. >> >> >>> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) >>> on Surrogate keys. >>> >>> >>> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-betwee >>> n-a-sur >>> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 12:30:13 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:30:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant><11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4E4CFECF9F60434EB83A7E8E951FD870@SusanHarkins> No, not you guys -- TR readers. ;) Some have been a tad snarky lately. :) It's been a large hard winter! Susan H. > Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around > the edges in here. From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 14:32:03 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:32:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> Dan, et al. The issue is the report. The original report was quite complex. There are 19 question types, which means a section could be all one type or a combination of several types. The original report had sub-reports for each type and when printed would unhide and expand the appropriate sub-report. The 20th sub-report is a complex report that has a sub-report for each question type. When the report is printed the sub-reports would unhide and expand as needed. Sometimes a sub-report could be used two or more times in different sequences to create a section. The section with more than one question type I call "various" because of various types of questions. The first 3 sections of the questionnaire have various questions. For example, Q1 is a 3-response question with custom responses, Q2 is a fill-in question, Q3 is a 5-response question with custom response, Q4 is self-lookup question with a combo box, Q4 is a two response question with custom response, etc. I separated the first report and made 20 different reports. So when printing, it cycles through the reports and prints them as needed. I have found that to able to print the entire questionnaire, I need to print each section in succession because each section is a different report. If I open the print menu by-itself the entire questionnaire prints. If I "log in" as a researcher, I get the same problem when it attempts to print the second section report. I'm getting closer to solving this conundrum. But, I'm sure where to go from here. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jerbach at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 16:07:50 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:07:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> References: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: Rocky - Thanks! I'm waiting to hear back from the tech temp agency to see if she will truly consider a remote arrangement. (This tech agency is kind of stuffy, and I'm waiting for her to get back to me as to whether or not she can get permission to persue a remote arrangement.) How was Bahrain? San Diego is GORGEOUS. And I got drunk for the first time in 24 years in downtown LaJolla. Must have been the smell of all that money on the air...:) Sorry I missed meeting up with you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I wrote a rather elaborate piece of code behind an Excel 2003 spreadsheet > to > update data in an Access mdb. > > Actually the project was to export data from the Access based accounting > system to a real complex spreadsheet, which would allow the user to tweak > all the numbers, then, when she got it the way she wanted it, import the > data from the spreadsheet back into the Access back end. > > It was all sorts of fun. So I've got the framework and techniques. I'll > give it a shot. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of > thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jerbach at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 16:10:55 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:10:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim - I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a different > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > options > view). > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that it > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > force > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > link-manager etc... > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the DB > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows display > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > macro is run. > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database window" > is checked. > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked so > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a number > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > all > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > objects > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple of > hours to remove. > > HTH > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of > thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Mar 28 16:29:04 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:29:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <44D5D062343C4F909F75F8555F0076F3@HAL9005> Bahrain was an adventure. The work was interesting but the last day I spent with the protesters in Pearl roundabout and went on a protest march with them (child of the 60s - couldn't help myself). Came back with a bunch of work, too! :) Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Rocky - Thanks! I'm waiting to hear back from the tech temp agency to see if she will truly consider a remote arrangement. (This tech agency is kind of stuffy, and I'm waiting for her to get back to me as to whether or not she can get permission to persue a remote arrangement.) How was Bahrain? San Diego is GORGEOUS. And I got drunk for the first time in 24 years in downtown LaJolla. Must have been the smell of all that money on the air...:) Sorry I missed meeting up with you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I wrote a rather elaborate piece of code behind an Excel 2003 > spreadsheet to update data in an Access mdb. > > Actually the project was to export data from the Access based > accounting system to a real complex spreadsheet, which would allow the > user to tweak all the numbers, then, when she got it the way she > wanted it, import the data from the spreadsheet back into the Access back end. > > It was all sorts of fun. So I've got the framework and techniques. > I'll give it a shot. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet > Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: > I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I > install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export > successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my > 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if > it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I > tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there > just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, > and it just won't go! What could be causing this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? > A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind > of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that > type of thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Mar 28 17:18:59 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:18:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant>, <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D910953.9998.13B6433E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Very brave. That'll get her "comment count" up :-) -- Stuart On 28 Mar 2011 at 7:56, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between > -a-sur rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon Mar 28 17:56:46 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:56:46 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ haha, I guess we can all send you some if you really want... :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, 29 March 2011 2:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) Susan H. > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 18:18:17 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:18:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Janet: Without knowing more I would suspect that the main database window has its x and/or y coordinates set off the main viewing area. It is really there just not visible. If you can get to create and edit a form then you also have access to the other database objects by creating a event. Once event has been initiated within the form, you are creating, you can then go and edit that event. This will expose all the other object in the MDB. (Do not quote me on this but there is some old memory that says by pressing it will bring the main database window into view.) Another thing you can do is check out what the macro autoexec does. Just go and select the event section, in the form you have created but this time instead of selecting an event select a macro and pick the "autoexec" macro. Then go in and see if it is making some interest calls...turn them off if need be. (Make sure all the tool bars are displayed etc...) PS: Make sure you have a backup of the anything you change. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Jim - I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a different > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > options > view). > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that it > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > force > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > link-manager etc... > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the DB > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows display > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > macro is run. > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database window" > is checked. > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked so > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a number > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > all > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > objects > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple of > hours to remove. > > HTH > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of > thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 18:22:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:22:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <4D910953.9998.13B6433E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D910953.9998.13B6433E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <6EDFA525E8694320B8DE11BF772C6B3D@creativesystemdesigns.com> I think the bound and unbound subject needs a good article written. ...or what about Microsoft should stop supporting VB code to force all developer to move forward. ...or all SQL developers should require certification before they are even allowed to purchase SQL. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys Very brave. That'll get her "comment count" up :-) -- Stuart On 28 Mar 2011 at 7:56, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between > -a-sur rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 18:33:12 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:33:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) Susan H. >> > haha, I guess we can all send you some if you really want... :) > > > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 29 03:35:39 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:35:39 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: References: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: >> No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) But you do challenge them now, don 't you? :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: 29 ????? 2011 ?. 3:33 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) Susan H. >> > haha, I guess we can all send you some if you really want... :) > > > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 07:53:04 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:53:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <23888176F2534436B0DD9CBB49B53E2D@SusanHarkins> Shamil, I tried to not be bossy. ;) Susan H. >>> No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) > But you do challenge them now, don 't you? :) > From dbdoug at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 10:37:14 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:37:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] pdf output Message-ID: Hello All: I'm using the Lebans code to output pdfs directly from Access. For flexibility, I'd like to use a Where string when the report is generated, but Lebans uses Docmd.OutputTo acReport.... to get his snapshot file, and there is no WhereString parameter. Is there an easy way of doing this, or am I going to have to rework the recordsource for the report before I call the pdf output code? Thanks, Doug From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 29 10:41:01 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:41:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] pdf output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm using his code as well. And the Where string would be handy. But I always put the filters in the report or modify the record source instead of passing a filter as an argument. So I didn't have to solve this one. I'm still having the issue of the code not working when I try it from a second form unless I generate one pdf from the first form - then the second one works. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] pdf output Hello All: I'm using the Lebans code to output pdfs directly from Access. For flexibility, I'd like to use a Where string when the report is generated, but Lebans uses Docmd.OutputTo acReport.... to get his snapshot file, and there is no WhereString parameter. Is there an easy way of doing this, or am I going to have to rework the recordsource for the report before I call the pdf output code? Thanks, Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 11:31:21 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:31:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] pdf output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Rocky. I'm generating these pdfs without operator intervention, so I guess it's going to be recordsource modification. Doug On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 8:41 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I'm using his code as well. ?And the Where string would be handy. ?But I > always put the filters in the report or modify the record source instead of > passing a filter as an argument. ?So I didn't have to solve this one. > > I'm still having the issue of the code not working when I try it from a > second form unless I generate one pdf from the first form - then the second > one works. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:37 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] pdf output > > Hello All: > > I'm using the Lebans code to output pdfs directly from Access. ?For > flexibility, I'd like to use a Where string when the report is generated, > but Lebans uses Docmd.OutputTo acReport.... to get his snapshot file, and > there is no WhereString parameter. > > Is there an easy way of doing this, or am I going to have to rework the > recordsource for the report before I call the pdf output code? > > Thanks, > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jerbach at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 13:31:28 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:31:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim - You're right about 'F11'. I use that all the time. I'll try you're suggestion about the autoexec...thank you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > Without knowing more I would suspect that the main database window has its > x > and/or y coordinates set off the main viewing area. It is really there just > not visible. > > If you can get to create and edit a form then you also have access to the > other database objects by creating a event. Once event has been initiated > within the form, you are creating, you can then go and edit that event. > This > will expose all the other object in the MDB. (Do not quote me on this but > there is some old memory that says by pressing it will bring the main > database window into view.) > > Another thing you can do is check out what the macro autoexec does. Just go > and select the event section, in the form you have created but this time > instead of selecting an event select a macro and pick the "autoexec" macro. > Then go in and see if it is making some interest calls...turn them off if > need be. (Make sure all the tool bars are displayed etc...) > > PS: Make sure you have a backup of the anything you change. > > HTH > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Jim - > > I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I > display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this > 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it > as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any > active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of > Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption > issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... > > Janet > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi Janet: > > > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a > different > > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > > options > view). > > > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that > it > > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > > force > > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > > link-manager etc... > > > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the > DB > > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows > display > > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > > macro is run. > > > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database > window" > > is checked. > > > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked > so > > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a > number > > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > > all > > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > > objects > > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple > of > > hours to remove. > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > > > Hello - > > > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I > install > > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - > I > > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' > data > > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > > temporary > > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into > this > > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > > this? > > > > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type > of > > thing, please let me know. > > > > Thank you! > > > > Janet Erbach > > IT/Office Manager > > Natural Healthy Concepts > > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 29 15:25:31 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:25:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4212BDA0E73B4ABF978E717FE30FB576@creativesystemdesigns.com> Keep me posted Janet. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Jim - You're right about 'F11'. I use that all the time. I'll try you're suggestion about the autoexec...thank you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > Without knowing more I would suspect that the main database window has its > x > and/or y coordinates set off the main viewing area. It is really there just > not visible. > > If you can get to create and edit a form then you also have access to the > other database objects by creating a event. Once event has been initiated > within the form, you are creating, you can then go and edit that event. > This > will expose all the other object in the MDB. (Do not quote me on this but > there is some old memory that says by pressing it will bring the main > database window into view.) > > Another thing you can do is check out what the macro autoexec does. Just go > and select the event section, in the form you have created but this time > instead of selecting an event select a macro and pick the "autoexec" macro. > Then go in and see if it is making some interest calls...turn them off if > need be. (Make sure all the tool bars are displayed etc...) > > PS: Make sure you have a backup of the anything you change. > > HTH > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Jim - > > I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I > display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this > 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it > as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any > active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of > Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption > issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... > > Janet > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi Janet: > > > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a > different > > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > > options > view). > > > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that > it > > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > > force > > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > > link-manager etc... > > > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the > DB > > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows > display > > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > > macro is run. > > > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database > window" > > is checked. > > > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked > so > > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a > number > > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > > all > > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > > objects > > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple > of > > hours to remove. > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > > > Hello - > > > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I > install > > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - > I > > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' > data > > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > > temporary > > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into > this > > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > > this? > > > > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type > of > > thing, please let me know. > > > > Thank you! > > > > Janet Erbach > > IT/Office Manager > > Natural Healthy Concepts > > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 30 10:29:27 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:29:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule Message-ID: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 30 10:30:04 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:30:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys rule Message-ID: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Mar 30 10:41:51 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:41:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Sure do... they rule the 5th level of hell... ;) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 10:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 11:05:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:05:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: ...But where... in a museum? Sorry could not resist. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 8:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 11:53:06 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:53:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: siiiigghhhhhhh, and I thought I was converting him.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 8:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule > > > ;) > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 12:04:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:04:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Sometimes, but only in Access. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:29 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > ;) > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 12:05:05 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:05:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Are you feeling like starting something this morning? Not that I disagree with you. I'm a firm surrogate key believer. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:30 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > ;) > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 30 12:15:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:15:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys rule In-Reply-To: References: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D936539.3020101@colbyconsulting.com> It's been quiet for days. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/30/2011 1:05 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Are you feeling like starting something this morning? Not that I > disagree with you. I'm a firm surrogate key believer. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:30 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> >> ;) >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 14:08:28 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:08:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All: I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the question. On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and back on again the status field updates correctly. The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor some event within code to know that there has been a change to the form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be performed. So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be performed at this point. It does seem that this should be very simple. TIA Jim From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 14:18:44 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:18:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the right event Hi All: I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the question. On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and back on again the status field updates correctly. The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor some event within code to know that there has been a change to the form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be performed. So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be performed at this point. It does seem that this should be very simple. TIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 30 15:01:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 06:01:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4D938C12.15257.1D84FF4F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If Form 2 opened from Form 1? If so, open Form 2 as Modal and trigger the refresh immediately after the docmd.Openform "Form2"? -- Stuart On 30 Mar 2011 at 12:08, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi All: > > I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. > > I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the > question. > > On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. > Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in > form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and > back on again the status field updates correctly. > > The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor > some event within code to know that there has been a change to the > form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be > performed. > > So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to > form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be > performed at this point. > > It does seem that this should be very simple. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 18:51:53 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:51:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> References: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> Thanks for the help Jim and Stuart It was not as simple as initially planned but finally a hack that works: (Believe me, I tried ever other method first...and this is the only one that really works.) '1. Turn off display '2. Set focus to the calling form '3. Save current record position on calling form '4. Set field in calling form to required value '5. Force update to calling form by 'refreshing' record source '6. Position back to appropriate calling form record '7. set focus to modular form '8. Turn on display Dim bolStatusFlag Dim lngInvoiceID As Long Dim rs As Object bolStatusFlag = Me.Closed Application.Echo False [Forms]![Invoice Header].SetFocus lngInvoiceID = [Forms]![Invoice Header].[InvoiceID] ' Set one field... [Forms]![Invoice Header].[Work Description].Locked = bolStatusFlag [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordSource = "Invoice Open" Set rs = [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordsetClone rs.FindFirst "[InvoiceID] = " & lngInvoiceID If Not rs.EOF Then [Forms]![Invoice Header].Bookmark = rs.Bookmark Me.SetFocus Application.Echo True Hope this helps somebody. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right event Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the right event Hi All: I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the question. On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and back on again the status field updates correctly. The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor some event within code to know that there has been a change to the form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be performed. So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be performed at this point. It does seem that this should be very simple. TIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 30 19:03:13 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:03:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com>, <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D93C4C1.5764.1E626D90@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Do you need Form 1 visible when Form 2 is activated? I frequently only let my users see one form at a time. If they don't need to see it, I would just hide Form 1 when Form 2 is opened and unhide it when form 2 is closed rather than turning Echo off. On 30 Mar 2011 at 16:51, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Thanks for the help Jim and Stuart > > It was not as simple as initially planned but finally a hack that > works: (Believe me, I tried ever other method first...and this is the > only one that really works.) > > '1. Turn off display > '2. Set focus to the calling form > '3. Save current record position on calling form > '4. Set field in calling form to required value > '5. Force update to calling form by 'refreshing' record source > '6. Position back to appropriate calling form record > '7. set focus to modular form > '8. Turn on display > > Dim bolStatusFlag > Dim lngInvoiceID As Long > Dim rs As Object > > bolStatusFlag = Me.Closed > > Application.Echo False > [Forms]![Invoice Header].SetFocus > > lngInvoiceID = [Forms]![Invoice Header].[InvoiceID] > > ' Set one field... > [Forms]![Invoice Header].[Work Description].Locked = bolStatusFlag > > [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordSource = "Invoice Open" > > Set rs = [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordsetClone > rs.FindFirst "[InvoiceID] = " & lngInvoiceID > If Not rs.EOF Then [Forms]![Invoice Header].Bookmark = rs.Bookmark > > Me.SetFocus > Application.Echo True > > > Hope this helps somebody. ;-) > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right > event > > Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the > right event > > Hi All: > > I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. > > I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the > question. > > On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. > Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in > form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and > back on again the status field updates correctly. > > The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor > some event within code to know that there has been a change to the > form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be > performed. > > So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to > form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be > performed at this point. > > It does seem that this should be very simple. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Mar 30 19:05:53 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:05:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> Good Luck! By the time you're done with this we'll know who to ask about Access Reporting! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Dan, et al. The issue is the report. The original report was quite complex. There are 19 question types, which means a section could be all one type or a combination of several types. The original report had sub-reports for each type and when printed would unhide and expand the appropriate sub-report. The 20th sub-report is a complex report that has a sub-report for each question type. When the report is printed the sub-reports would unhide and expand as needed. Sometimes a sub-report could be used two or more times in different sequences to create a section. The section with more than one question type I call "various" because of various types of questions. The first 3 sections of the questionnaire have various questions. For example, Q1 is a 3-response question with custom responses, Q2 is a fill-in question, Q3 is a 5-response question with custom response, Q4 is self-lookup question with a combo box, Q4 is a two response question with custom response, etc. I separated the first report and made 20 different reports. So when printing, it cycles through the reports and prints them as needed. I have found that to able to print the entire questionnaire, I need to print each section in succession because each section is a different report. If I open the print menu by-itself the entire questionnaire prints. If I "log in" as a researcher, I get the same problem when it attempts to print the second section report. I'm getting closer to solving this conundrum. But, I'm sure where to go from here. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 19:41:48 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:41:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net><4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <848BE0580B2347C0BA0F2A6CC4EF1F88@HomePC> Thanks, I'm not so sure about being the one to ask about reports. In frustration of not being able to get it done. I've moved on to something else to give the grey matter a rest on the issue. Maybe in a day or two with "fresh" eyes I'll see something. We'll see. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Good Luck! By the time you're done with this we'll know who to ask about Access Reporting! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Dan, et al. The issue is the report. The original report was quite complex. There are 19 question types, which means a section could be all one type or a combination of several types. The original report had sub-reports for each type and when printed would unhide and expand the appropriate sub-report. The 20th sub-report is a complex report that has a sub-report for each question type. When the report is printed the sub-reports would unhide and expand as needed. Sometimes a sub-report could be used two or more times in different sequences to create a section. The section with more than one question type I call "various" because of various types of questions. The first 3 sections of the questionnaire have various questions. For example, Q1 is a 3-response question with custom responses, Q2 is a fill-in question, Q3 is a 5-response question with custom response, Q4 is self-lookup question with a combo box, Q4 is a two response question with custom response, etc. I separated the first report and made 20 different reports. So when printing, it cycles through the reports and prints them as needed. I have found that to able to print the entire questionnaire, I need to print each section in succession because each section is a different report. If I open the print menu by-itself the entire questionnaire prints. If I "log in" as a researcher, I get the same problem when it attempts to print the second section report. I'm getting closer to solving this conundrum. But, I'm sure where to go from here. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 19:47:52 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:47:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <848BE0580B2347C0BA0F2A6CC4EF1F88@HomePC> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> <848BE0580B2347C0BA0F2A6CC4EF1F88@HomePC> Message-ID: Reports with nested subreports can be quite a problem in Access AND in .Net. You can use subreport controls that are not bound to a particular dataset (no master/child links set). That allows you to control which subreports are presented and what the criteria is from code in the parent report/subreport. It isn't simple, but it does get around the problems of all the layers of queries that are run when you process a bound report with nested subs. You also have to be very careful about which event you use, since some of them occur too late to serve any purpose. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 5:41 PM, jm.hwsn wrote: > Thanks, I'm not so sure about being the one to ask about reports. > In frustration of not being able to get it done. > I've moved on to something else to give the grey matter a rest on the issue. > Maybe in a day or two with "fresh" eyes I'll see something. > We'll see. > Thanks, > Jim > From dbdoug at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 21:58:46 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:58:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Message-ID: I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 30 22:06:24 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:06:24 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103310306.p2V36YDm016658@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Stuart McLachlan posted a link warning of this issue on here back in Late Feb, Early March. I am sure the thread below has grown since then, but it was well worth a read back then. '--- copy of email ---- It seems that if you are using ADO and compile under Win7 SP1, your application may no longer work on previous Winodws versions :-( <> '---- End copy ----- cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, 31 March 2011 1:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 22:08:59 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:08:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 30 23:07:23 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:07:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4D93FDFB.32424.1F41F7AA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The other gotcha is if you are using references to 32 bit DLLs. where you may be runing on Oiffice 32bit and 64bit You have to do check the version and use PtrSafe something like this: #If VBA7 Then Declare PtrSafe Function GetUserName Lib "advapi32.dll" Alias "GetUserNameA" (ByVal lpBuffer As String, nSize As Long) As Long #Else Declare Function GetUserName Lib "advapi32.dll" Alias "GetUserNameA" (ByVal lpBuffer As String, nSize As Long) As Long #End If -- Stuart On 30 Mar 2011 at 20:08, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are > being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because > backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we > can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to > watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had > written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has > been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message > indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of > a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I > putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to > work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also > a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn > Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 > SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m > running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time > to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 23:52:34 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:52:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: <4D93C4C1.5764.1E626D90@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D93C4C1.5764.1E626D90@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: No, Form 1 or the caller form stays invisible and the display was turned off so the screen wouldn't flash when moving from form to form...even if the form is invisible there is a small screen shimmer when processing unless the echo is stopped. I tend to be a little overly fussy about these thing. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right event Do you need Form 1 visible when Form 2 is activated? I frequently only let my users see one form at a time. If they don't need to see it, I would just hide Form 1 when Form 2 is opened and unhide it when form 2 is closed rather than turning Echo off. On 30 Mar 2011 at 16:51, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Thanks for the help Jim and Stuart > > It was not as simple as initially planned but finally a hack that > works: (Believe me, I tried ever other method first...and this is the > only one that really works.) > > '1. Turn off display > '2. Set focus to the calling form > '3. Save current record position on calling form > '4. Set field in calling form to required value > '5. Force update to calling form by 'refreshing' record source > '6. Position back to appropriate calling form record > '7. set focus to modular form > '8. Turn on display > > Dim bolStatusFlag > Dim lngInvoiceID As Long > Dim rs As Object > > bolStatusFlag = Me.Closed > > Application.Echo False > [Forms]![Invoice Header].SetFocus > > lngInvoiceID = [Forms]![Invoice Header].[InvoiceID] > > ' Set one field... > [Forms]![Invoice Header].[Work Description].Locked = bolStatusFlag > > [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordSource = "Invoice Open" > > Set rs = [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordsetClone > rs.FindFirst "[InvoiceID] = " & lngInvoiceID > If Not rs.EOF Then [Forms]![Invoice Header].Bookmark = rs.Bookmark > > Me.SetFocus > Application.Echo True > > > Hope this helps somebody. ;-) > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right > event > > Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the > right event > > Hi All: > > I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. > > I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the > question. > > On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. > Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in > form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and > back on again the status field updates correctly. > > The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor > some event within code to know that there has been a change to the > form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be > performed. > > So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to > form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be > performed at this point. > > It does seem that this should be very simple. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 00:01:54 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 22:01:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488C6622A8F54A808D4E7AA886981C89@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Doug: Good one... Another good reason to keep that old XP box around so you can support your XP using clients... of which I have many. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 31 08:05:42 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:05:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just the same as Joe average is being pressured to switch to Windows 7 just to run IE9. It's all about M$ revenue. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 11:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 09:42:56 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:42:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 09:46:30 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:46:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Speaking of the .Net world.... I ran into something the other day in VB.Net In VB 6 (or VBA) if I had a custom class, let's say like this: Public SomeStringProperty As String Dim intSomeNumericValue as Long Property Get SomeNumericValue() as Long SomeNumericValue=intSomeNumericValue End Property I considered both 'SomeStringProperty' and 'SomeNumericValue' as properties of the class. VB.Net does not. If it is defined with a Public variablename As SomeType VB.Net considers it a 'field'. Interesting. Not that it makes a whole hell of a difference now that I know, it drove me nuts while trying to put the 'properties' of a class into a combo box, and couldn't for the life of me figure why it kept returning an empty array! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 10:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 11:30:18 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:30:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 12:33:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:33:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Message-ID: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> Wait, are you calling Drew a turkey??? Charlotte Foust Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Jim Lawrence wrote: >Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) > >Jim > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work >just fine...... > >Web Front End.... > >;) > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele >Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written >using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working >for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO >wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and >I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the >references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this >is probably an example of a known problem: > >http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > >There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in >the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, >an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running >Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. >I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the >problem. > >I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > >Doug >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >person or entity >to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >Business >Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >the sender >immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or >hard copy. >You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >dissemination, >or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information >by persons >or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 12:42:52 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:42:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? Message-ID: Dear List: A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for the new matter. No problem. But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. Anyway, can this be done? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 31 12:47:29 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:47:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Hi Doug, Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running ADO is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on W7SP1? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 12:55:38 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:55:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Message-ID: Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:09:32 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:09:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: I believe so, from reading the discussions. I was able fix the problem by removing the ADO reference on the client machine, compiling (got errors on missing reference) then reinstating the reference and compiling once more. I'm not sure if the first compile step does anything, but it doesn't do any harm. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, > and got it to work. ?Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:17:57 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:17:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Sorry, I mis-read your post. I just tried running the fixed client version (compiled on W7 no SP1) on my computer (W7SP1) without re-compiling and it ran correctly without any errors. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, > and got it to work. ?Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:21:24 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:21:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional > setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the > date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional settings on my box to > U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, > tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND > DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date > is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different syntax for > this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 13:21:28 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:21:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your desktop. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? Dear List: A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for the new matter. No problem. But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. Anyway, can this be done? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:27:20 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:27:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <298669879D2F41AAB1033D9EDD42ED74@BPCS> I am having similar problems with 2 clients. I just moved an ADP Access 2003 from my development machine (Win7 64 SP1 ) to an XP machine, decompiled it, set the reference to activex 2.6 from 2.7 recompiled, repair and compacted and shipped it. It now works on one machine that it did not work on. They will let me know later about the other machines as people start to use the application. What is really strange it always worked on some of their machines and we were not able to find any differences in versions or references. The second client is running it on Windows Server 2003. I have access to it using LogMeIn so will experiment tonight to see if changing the active x reference, or decompile compile on an XP machine or both fixes it. Many other people seem to be removing SP 1 from their development machines, but I'd rather not go backwards, course I've been known to cut off my nose to spite my face. If I learn anything new tonight I'll let you all know. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug Steele" Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:09 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I believe so, from reading the discussions. I was able fix the problem by removing the ADO reference on the client machine, compiling (got errors on missing reference) then reinstating the reference and compiling once more. I'm not sure if the first compile step does anything, but it doesn't do any harm. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running > ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written > using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and > re-compiling, > and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 13:29:41 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:29:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Aha! Thank you. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can it be done? Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your desktop. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? Dear List: A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for the new matter. No problem. But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. Anyway, can this be done? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 13:34:32 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:34:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 13:37:11 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:37:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Actually, when it comes to a web interfaced app, using an .mdb for a backend is just fine. There are only a few times where I would actually recommend a SQL Server Backend: Size limitation. Needs to have another non-web based front end. Needs triggers. Other than that, an .mdb is just fine. Uses less over head, can run just as fast, if not faster, etc. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 13:40:04 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 22:40:04 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 13:49:31 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:49:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 14:08:17 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:08:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> References: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> Message-ID: Ever tangled with a turkey? ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Wait, are you calling Drew a turkey??? Charlotte Foust Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Jim Lawrence wrote: >Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) > >Jim > > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 31 14:19:56 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:19:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Message-ID: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two e-mails for each post. Jim. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 14:22:55 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:22:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? In-Reply-To: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> References: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Message-ID: We're just trying to make sure you read what's important! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:20 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two e-mails for each post. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 14:37:05 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:37:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? In-Reply-To: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> References: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Message-ID: No. Not me. No. Not me. Thought I would save time answering them both. ;-) GK On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? > > Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two > e-mails for each post. > > Jim. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 15:54:14 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:54:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> References: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> Message-ID: <82074F87D17547B884F8B5DEF0F70515@creativesystemdesigns.com> Does he look like a turkey to you? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Wait, are you calling Drew a turkey??? Charlotte Foust Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Jim Lawrence wrote: >Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) > >Jim > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work >just fine...... > >Web Front End.... > >;) > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele >Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written >using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working >for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO >wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and >I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the >references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this >is probably an example of a known problem: > >http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > >There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in >the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, >an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running >Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. >I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the >problem. > >I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > >Doug >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >person or entity >to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >Business >Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >the sender >immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or >hard copy. >You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >dissemination, >or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information >by persons >or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 31 15:59:14 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:59:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? In-Reply-To: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> References: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Message-ID: <000001cbefe6$7ed64800$7c82d800$@winhaven.net> Hi Jim, Please contact Bryan off-list and see if he can help you through this: carbonnb at gmail.com John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:20 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two e-mails for each post. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 16:00:33 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:00:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <298669879D2F41AAB1033D9EDD42ED74@BPCS> References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> <298669879D2F41AAB1033D9EDD42ED74@BPCS> Message-ID: <3DC08DF7E4AF4E8E82B48E9BA91BD48A@creativesystemdesigns.com> I have to do that with a number of clients. Upload the source, remove the references, re-add the reference and then compile...two passes usually solves the issues. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I am having similar problems with 2 clients. I just moved an ADP Access 2003 from my development machine (Win7 64 SP1 ) to an XP machine, decompiled it, set the reference to activex 2.6 from 2.7 recompiled, repair and compacted and shipped it. It now works on one machine that it did not work on. They will let me know later about the other machines as people start to use the application. What is really strange it always worked on some of their machines and we were not able to find any differences in versions or references. The second client is running it on Windows Server 2003. I have access to it using LogMeIn so will experiment tonight to see if changing the active x reference, or decompile compile on an XP machine or both fixes it. Many other people seem to be removing SP 1 from their development machines, but I'd rather not go backwards, course I've been known to cut off my nose to spite my face. If I learn anything new tonight I'll let you all know. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug Steele" Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:09 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I believe so, from reading the discussions. I was able fix the problem by removing the ADO reference on the client machine, compiling (got errors on missing reference) then reinstating the reference and compiling once more. I'm not sure if the first compile step does anything, but it doesn't do any harm. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running > ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written > using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and > re-compiling, > and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 16:14:45 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:14:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <306D1109AFF8409ABCC85B353B18FDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Drew: I have never had any bad experiences from an Access BE web site but according to one of the trainers from Wintellect, a Microsoft bases training company, from which I took a week of lecture course, a few years ago, at Redmond; he said the an Access BE was very dangerous because it was prone to insertion attacked. He said he could hack any Access BE in 5 minutes. Whether that was true or not I have no idea but I have never used an Access BE, for a web site, since. On a pinch I have used MySQL and now MS SQL Express when no major SQL DB BE is available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Actually, when it comes to a web interfaced app, using an .mdb for a backend is just fine. There are only a few times where I would actually recommend a SQL Server Backend: Size limitation. Needs to have another non-web based front end. Needs triggers. Other than that, an .mdb is just fine. Uses less over head, can run just as fast, if not faster, etc. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 16:20:08 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:20:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: PS: It is interseting as a Redmond training seminar is starting at the MS college at the end of May and Wintellect will be the teachers. http://view.exacttarget.com/?j=fe5d1572706c0d787615&m=ff001675756503&ls=fe32 11737763047a751170&l=feef11747c610d&s=fe961173716c047875&jb=ffcf14&ju=fe2f15 717265047b7c1271 I believe Jeffrey Richter was the trainers who warned against an Access BE so you can always pop him an email and ask hime why and how. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Actually, when it comes to a web interfaced app, using an .mdb for a backend is just fine. There are only a few times where I would actually recommend a SQL Server Backend: Size limitation. Needs to have another non-web based front end. Needs triggers. Other than that, an .mdb is just fine. Uses less over head, can run just as fast, if not faster, etc. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 16:24:10 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:24:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <306D1109AFF8409ABCC85B353B18FDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <306D1109AFF8409ABCC85B353B18FDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hmmm, I would be curious as to how that is done. Actually, the SQL Insertion issue is due to SQL code having comment capabilities, and Access SQL doesn't allow comments. Plus, for this kind of vulnerability, your code has to literally use client created data directly in an SQL statement, which is a bad habit no matter what database you are using. I am curious as to how the .mdb would be setup to allow an 'insertion attack'. In the web interfaces I have designed, the backend is not visible in any way, except for the pages I create. Part one of that is to NOT have the .mdb in a visible location on the webserver. It is accessible to IIS, but not the user. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Hi Drew: I have never had any bad experiences from an Access BE web site but according to one of the trainers from Wintellect, a Microsoft bases training company, from which I took a week of lecture course, a few years ago, at Redmond; he said the an Access BE was very dangerous because it was prone to insertion attacked. He said he could hack any Access BE in 5 minutes. Whether that was true or not I have no idea but I have never used an Access BE, for a web site, since. On a pinch I have used MySQL and now MS SQL Express when no major SQL DB BE is available. Jim The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 16:36:42 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 07:36:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4D94F3EA.16525.2302A4BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Wouldn't that make every other form in the same application topmost as well? On 31 Mar 2011 at 13:21, Drew Wutka wrote: > Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do > this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are > subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than > regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will > put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the > ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access > window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your > desktop. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? > > Dear List: > > A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time > keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various > clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer > changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and > starts running the clock for the new matter. > > No problem. > > But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer > is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch > their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to > go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen > windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I > guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd > want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the > phone - things like that. > > Anyway, can this be done? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 16:40:02 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:40:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: <4D94F3EA.16525.2302A4BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4D94F3EA.16525.2302A4BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Yes, but only if they were open and set as 'popup'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can it be done? Wouldn't that make every other form in the same application topmost as well? On 31 Mar 2011 at 13:21, Drew Wutka wrote: > Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do > this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are > subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than > regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will > put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the > ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access > window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your > desktop. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? > > Dear List: > > A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time > keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various > clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer > changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and > starts running the clock for the new matter. > > No problem. > > But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer > is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch > their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to > go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen > windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I > guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd > want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the > phone - things like that. > > Anyway, can this be done? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 16:40:52 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 07:40:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> References: , , <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D94F4E4.2878.2306749A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You need make the Format "mm/dd/yy" not "dd/mm/yy" But I generally do it like this instead: DueDate >=DateValue("' & txtGEDueDate & "') AND .... -- Stuart On 31 Mar 2011 at 11:34, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to > mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table > using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various > filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I > send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume > from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is > dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. > and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO > tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) > SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to > filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of > the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in > tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why > doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax > for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 16:58:24 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 01:58:24 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 17:39:59 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:39:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: That is, unless the backend may be SQL Server, in which case, the delimiter is a single quote. We used to run into that issue in .Net, so we built a function to return the date string formatted with the correct delimiter depending on which database was in use. Easy enough to create a function to format any date to US format as well. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Rocky -- > Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be > enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 17:41:06 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:41:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: He's trying to reinvent all the timer programs already on the market. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping > form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal > matters. ?So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current > matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for > the new matter. > > No problem. > > But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is > working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their > timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to > the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and > finding the access app would be awkward for them. ?I guess if a lawyer is > working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from > the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. > > Anyway, can this be done? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 17:41:57 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 02:41:57 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter References: Message-ID: Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Mar 31 18:00:48 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:00:48 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> Message-ID: <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Rocky, To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:03:08 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:03:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: Shamil: When I create those SQL strings I usually load them into a text box on the form before I execute them so I can see what it looks like and copy it out to a query if I need to run it. Stuart suggest DateValue. Better or worse than Format? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Mar 31 18:05:08 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 01:05:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: If supposed to be a poll then: Bound form - no & yes (depends) Surrogate keys - yes (always) Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af jwcolby Sendt: 30. marts 2011 17:29 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Bound forms rule ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:06:22 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:06:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 18:07:33 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:07:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Actually I think it is the Japanese that got it right with YYYYMMDD On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I > process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory > the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, > regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of > "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date > format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and > adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of > the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, > tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND > DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in > the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > Dear List: > > > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional > > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records > with no date filtering. > > > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. > > > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > > > Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different > > syntax for this filter? > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is > intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any > review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in > reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete > this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or > distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the > permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Mar 31 18:20:40 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:20:40 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Rocky, Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to align like this you get around the regional issues. '========================================= iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") iM = Format(Now(), "mm") iD = Format(Now(), "dd") dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) gstrSQL = vbnullstring gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" ' do what ever here with gstrSQL '========================================= -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 18:38:43 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 09:38:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> References: , <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D951083.4367.23725895@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Or you can replace your entire code example with: gstrSQL = "SELECT" & _ " pk_lngFYPID" & _ " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" & _ " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" & _ " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" & _ " WHERE dteCalDate = Date()" or if you want a variable date: dteMyDate = Date() gstrSQL = "SELECT" & _ " pk_lngFYPID" & _ " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" & _ " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" & _ " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" & _ " WHERE dteCalDate = DateValue('" & dteMyDate & "')" On 1 Apr 2011 at 10:20, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Rocky, > > Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to > align like this you get around the regional issues. > > '========================================= > > iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") > iM = Format(Now(), "mm") > iD = Format(Now(), "dd") > > dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) > > gstrSQL = vbnullstring > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" > > ' do what ever here with gstrSQL > > '========================================= > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Shamil: > > I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the > text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Un-American Date Filter > > Rocky -- > > <<>> I should have > written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to > convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it > could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer > as in this case: > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 > > when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result > was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't > conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of > April 1st, 2011... > > And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both > results are "correct": > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 > > I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which > is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) > should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on > systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your > system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get > CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't > know what happens "behind the curtains" > > On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale > you'll get opposite to my first sample results: > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 > > And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using > system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's > textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... > > Hope that helps. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] > Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Hi Rocky -- > > <<< > IT'S WORKING!!! > >>> > Great! > > <<< > Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. > >>> > Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's > criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression > string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? > > I haven't seen your code but from your description using > > Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") > > should be enough, while using > > CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) > > could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" > (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from > its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate > window: > > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 > > Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should > be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Shamil: > > I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S > WORKING!!! > > I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). > Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Thank you one and all. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Un-American Date Filter > > Rocky -- > > SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code > SQL expression should be: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as > dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:44:48 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:44:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Rocky, To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:47:48 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:47:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Clever. That goes in the library. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Rocky, Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to align like this you get around the regional issues. '========================================= iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") iM = Format(Now(), "mm") iD = Format(Now(), "dd") dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) gstrSQL = vbnullstring gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" ' do what ever here with gstrSQL '========================================= -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 19:07:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 10:07:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005>, <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com>, Message-ID: <4D951742.9055.238CB2F4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I remember when New Zealand went metric with its currency back in the '70s. A friend was going overseas and was told by another friend that we were changing over to metric time next and was asked if could he bring back a metric watch. -- Stuart On 31 Mar 2011 at 16:44, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date > I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from > memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as > default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land > of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper > date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were > right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life > for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to > mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table > using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various > filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I > send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume > from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is > dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. > and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date > filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to > filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of > the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in > tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why > doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax > for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Mar 31 19:08:48 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:08:48 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201104010008.p3108tCf004748@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ hahahaha! - Nah, just having a rant about the perils of the crazy imperial measurement that the US still uses. I actually agree with David (and the Japanese). "YYYYMMDD" makes the most sense of all, well to me at least. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Rocky, To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 19:31:37 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:31:37 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <600980DF5A124F1196B53B3C97844B0F@nant> Darryl -- <<< gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" >>> It will not work properly - you have to use it this way: gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & Format(dteNow,"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#))" Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Rocky, Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to align like this you get around the regional issues. '========================================= iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") iM = Format(Now(), "mm") iD = Format(Now(), "dd") dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) gstrSQL = vbnullstring gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" ' do what ever here with gstrSQL '========================================= -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 19:29:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 10:29:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201104010008.p3108tCf004748@databaseadvisors.com> References: , <201104010008.p3108tCf004748@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D951C75.28793.23A10355@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It's not just Japanese, it's the internationally accepted standard in ISO 8601. Unfortunately the UScentric developers of Access and SQL Server ignore the international standard and use an internationally ambiguous format instead. -- Stuart On 1 Apr 2011 at 11:08, Darryl Collins wrote: > hahahaha! - Nah, just having a rant about the perils of the crazy > imperial measurement that the US still uses. I actually agree with > David (and the Japanese). "YYYYMMDD" makes the most sense of all, > well to me at least. > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:45 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date > I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from > memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as > default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land > of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper > date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were > right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life > for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to > mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table > using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various > filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I > send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume > from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is > dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. > and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date > filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to > filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of > the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in > tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why > doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax > for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 19:51:53 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:51:53 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17D5DE47E46B410D9E49229C7380D910@nant> Rocky -- I used DateSerial just to make it clear what date values are used in my samples. You don't need to use DateSerial(...) I suppose. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:06 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 19:51:53 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:51:53 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: <6A91DCB27D504B088721CA90B1438F0F@nant> Rocky -- You don't need DateValue. Are your source textboxes bound to Date type tables' fields? If yes - then just Format( .., "mm/dd/yyyy".) 'quoted' into pair of '#' would be enough. If your source textboxes do have String type values and that values are system locale format dependent then you can use: mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(CDate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(Cate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(DateValue(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or again just mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" all the above will work OK but mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CVDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & DateValue(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" wouldn't be correct as SQL "knows" only American date format and CDate(...), CVDate(....), DateValue(...) will return date formatted using system locale date format... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:03 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: When I create those SQL strings I usually load them into a text box on the form before I execute them so I can see what it looks like and copy it out to a query if I need to run it. Stuart suggest DateValue. Better or worse than Format? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 22:02:09 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:02:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <6A91DCB27D504B088721CA90B1438F0F@nant> References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> <6A91DCB27D504B088721CA90B1438F0F@nant> Message-ID: <00A125070CFA4A229129B0E700EDA75F@HAL9005> Thank YOU! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- You don't need DateValue. Are your source textboxes bound to Date type tables' fields? If yes - then just Format( .., "mm/dd/yyyy".) 'quoted' into pair of '#' would be enough. If your source textboxes do have String type values and that values are system locale format dependent then you can use: mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(CDate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(Cate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(DateValue(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or again just mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" all the above will work OK but mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CVDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & DateValue(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" wouldn't be correct as SQL "knows" only American date format and CDate(...), CVDate(....), DateValue(...) will return date formatted using system locale date format... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:03 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: When I create those SQL strings I usually load them into a text box on the form before I execute them so I can see what it looks like and copy it out to a query if I need to run it. Stuart suggest DateValue. Better or worse than Format? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 23:44:44 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:44:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: <69BC808F88F94EE6876E6453545100DF@creativesystemdesigns.com> How does everyone connect to their data on their SQL server? I have never done any other method than by passing parameters and calling the appropriate SP. Does everyone else actually just send sql strings? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter That is, unless the backend may be SQL Server, in which case, the delimiter is a single quote. We used to run into that issue in .Net, so we built a function to return the date string formatted with the correct delimiter depending on which database was in use. Easy enough to create a function to format any date to US format as well. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Rocky -- > Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be > enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 23:54:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:54:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <8BF2D525226E4849A29667C757BEDFB9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Actually, our government (federal and provincial) uses yyyymmdd which sorts as a string, a number or as a date without any translation. The other date standard they use is dd Mmm yyyy; ie. 01 May 2011 so there is never any confusion between month and day...and again everything is in sequential order. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Actually I think it is the Japanese that got it right with YYYYMMDD On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I > process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory > the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, > regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of > "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date > format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and > adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of > the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, > tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND > DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in > the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > Dear List: > > > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional > > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records > with no date filtering. > > > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. > > > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > > > Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different > > syntax for this filter? > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is > intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any > review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in > reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete > this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or > distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the > permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 07:35:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 08:35:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <7274EFBBD39B45EF8BCD9CF855DDC414@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D6CF626.2050406@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. Anyone binding 7 million records to a form using any data store needs to be in a different business. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 4:13 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > A few small tables and limited number of users it's fine. > > Try over 50 concurrent operators inserting/updating records in tables with up to 7 million > rows with multiple large lookup tables on that data. At the same time have a number of > others users pulling summaries of that data. Not fine. :-) > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 07:42:24 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 08:42:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> My advice for small databases is to simply upsize your big mac and be done with it. Oh... that's my McDonalds order. Upsize your tables to SQL Server and be done with it. Easier said than done in some cases, quite trivial in others. My point really is that for *small* databases (back ends), simple ODBC links to the data sitting in SQL Server will get you there instantly. Then you can play around with more esoteric things like binding the forms and combos to pass through queries and the like - assuming > A2K of course. The bigger problem I found was understanding enough about SQL Server security to make the process painless. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 1:09 PM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > Thank you all again, I am quickly learning many things from your responses. > I am just an old fart trying to play catch up with you guys (Oops and gals). > I am trying to learn how to do things with a SQL Server back end, by trying to duplicate what I can > do with an old MDB back end application. I am finding at times when doing my research on the > Internet that I will read "Do it this way" and then next read "No don't do it that way do it this > way". Also when I complete one task I think "Now how can I do this slighty different", this becomes > quite frustrating, after 2 to 3 hours of reading other forum responses and basically finding no > "hits", I will find some esoteric little example, usually not on topic, that finally simply > describes how to do what I was looking for. > Anyway this is my problem to solve, thank you again for your all your help. Onward and upward. This > is a scary path. > From df.waters at comcast.net Tue Mar 1 07:50:42 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 07:50:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OutputTo Bug in Library in Access 2007 Message-ID: <001201cbd817$a87ec9c0$f97c5d40$@comcast.net> A couple of weeks ago someone posted a problem with DoCmd.OutputTo, and a few days ago I came across a related bug introduced in Access 2007. I don't have Access 2010 - perhaps someone can see if the problem still exists there. If you have a procedure in a referenced Library file that outputs an object, where the object is stored in the Main file, you'll get an error. This worked fine in Access 2003, but fails in Access 2007. The help files in both versions say that Access looks in the Library first, then in the Main file. This is a workaround that I've tested. As an example, this procedure can be called by either the Library or the Main files, and determines which file the object is in. If the object is in the Main file, then the procedure uses CurrentProject.Application.DoCmd.OutputTo, which bypasses the bug. HTH! Dan '-------------------------------------- Public Sub LibraryOutput(intObjectType As Integer, stgObjectName As String, varOutputFormat As Variant, stgAccessObjectPath As String) '-- Purpose: This will take an Access Object for output from a referenced Library file. _ If the object is in the CurrentProject, then DoCmd.OutputTo won't see that object _ due to a bug introduced in Access 2007. _ However, using CurrentProject.Application.DoCmd.OutputTo in the library will work. Dim aob As AccessObject Dim blnReportInLibrary As Boolean '-- Is this report in the Library? For Each aob In CodeProject.AllReports If aob.Name = stgObjectName Then blnReportInLibrary = True End If Next aob '-- Output report from the file it's in If blnReportInLibrary = True Then DoCmd.OutputTo intObjectType, stgObjectName, varOutputFormat, stgAccessObjectPath Else CurrentProject.Application.DoCmd.OutputTo intObjectType, stgObjectName, varOutputFormat, stgAccessObjectPath End If End Sub '-------------------------------------- From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 09:47:30 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 10:47:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <89146180C53B4BBD9354BF816DB6D5B3@XPS> Not sure if I posted this in the past, but there are some great tid-bits in here on the use of an SQL backend: http://www.jstreettech.com/cartgenie/pg_developerDownloads.asp Download "The best of both worlds..." Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 08:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My advice for small databases is to simply upsize your big mac and be done with it. Oh... that's my McDonalds order. Upsize your tables to SQL Server and be done with it. Easier said than done in some cases, quite trivial in others. My point really is that for *small* databases (back ends), simple ODBC links to the data sitting in SQL Server will get you there instantly. Then you can play around with more esoteric things like binding the forms and combos to pass through queries and the like - assuming > A2K of course. The bigger problem I found was understanding enough about SQL Server security to make the process painless. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 1:09 PM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > Thank you all again, I am quickly learning many things from your responses. > I am just an old fart trying to play catch up with you guys (Oops and gals). > I am trying to learn how to do things with a SQL Server back end, by trying to duplicate what I can > do with an old MDB back end application. I am finding at times when doing my research on the > Internet that I will read "Do it this way" and then next read "No don't do it that way do it this > way". Also when I complete one task I think "Now how can I do this slighty different", this becomes > quite frustrating, after 2 to 3 hours of reading other forum responses and basically finding no > "hits", I will find some esoteric little example, usually not on topic, that finally simply > describes how to do what I was looking for. > Anyway this is my problem to solve, thank you again for your all your help. Onward and upward. This > is a scary path. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 10:41:40 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 08:41:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <004501cbd6c7$6dd32060$49796120$@comcast.net> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE00E@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> <4D6AD2FE.8187.124E85B2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7274EFBBD39B45EF8BCD9CF855DDC414@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Cringe away, it seems to work just fine. Until I see evidence to the contrary... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 10:56 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Years ago I dropped a table in error, on a live MS SQL DB...had about 50 > users on at the time. Added the table and re-populated in about 5 minutes > and only 1 person complained about the BE being slower and having to do a > refresh. Real SQL DBs are very rugged...everything is just queued, cached > and applied through background processes. > > The one thing is that a Real SQL DB is not just another MDB...there is > little or no resemblance other than the both hold data. (Not wanting to get > into a heated discussion, I must admit I cringe every time I hear of someone > attempting a bound MS SQL DB.) > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Both? > > When did you ever have to kick users out of Access or any other multi-user > DBMS to make > data changes? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 10:49:32 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 08:49:32 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <7274EFBBD39B45EF8BCD9CF855DDC414@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: If John makes his new applications work stability, I will truly be delighted. If they do not, I promise to try to resist the temtation to say "I told you so". ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server A few small tables and limited number of users it's fine. Try over 50 concurrent operators inserting/updating records in tables with up to 7 million rows with multiple large lookup tables on that data. At the same time have a number of others users pulling summaries of that data. Not fine. :-) -- Stuart On 28 Feb 2011 at 12:01, jwcolby wrote: > Cringe away, it seems to work just fine. Until I see evidence to the > contrary... > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 2/28/2011 10:56 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Years ago I dropped a table in error, on a live MS SQL DB...had > > about 50 users on at the time. Added the table and re-populated in > > about 5 minutes and only 1 person complained about the BE being > > slower and having to do a refresh. Real SQL DBs are very > > rugged...everything is just queued, cached and applied through > > background processes. > > > > The one thing is that a Real SQL DB is not just another MDB...there > > is little or no resemblance other than the both hold data. (Not > > wanting to get into a heated discussion, I must admit I cringe every > > time I hear of someone attempting a bound MS SQL DB.) > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > > Access and SQL Server > > > > Both? > > > > When did you ever have to kick users out of Access or any other > > multi-user DBMS to make data changes? > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 10:54:52 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 08:54:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <201102282241.p1SMfaRg026442@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <201102282241.p1SMfaRg026442@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: So what is your opinion about using asynchronous or synchronous connection to a MS SQL BE from an Access FE? You would definitely be the man and could put this whole controversy to rest. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ "Are any of your developing full blown ACCESS/SQL Server applications for clients? If so what type of an app is it?" When I was at Coles Group a year or so back I was part of a team of developers that built and maintained a whole suite of custom applications that were built on a common template. All the apps were based on a template which in turn was based on a SQL Server BE with MS Access FE (mde of course). We were starting to move any new apps to a web UI and away from MS Access. Many of these apps were critical for the day to day running of large national retail businesses. To give you some idea Coles Group is one of Australia's largest retailers with more than 2,600 stores throughout Australia and New Zealand, over 400,000 shareholders and more than 190,000 employees. My good friend Beny build a complex logistics app, which was used for scheduling all store deliveries based on availablity and type of truck (Some trucks can only fit in certain bays for example, some truck have to be in the cold store etc). Damn clever with a great UI. Some of these apps had hundreds of concurrent users 24/7, although many also lead a far less demanding life. The financial control system I build had about 50 users over a WAN. It was fast, stable and accurate. Gotta love that :) The big advantage was even though each application was build for a totally different purpose, it had a common platform and build, which meant that any of the development team could work on it if the main developer was away or busy. I miss working with SQL Server. Current role is 100% access based. Feel a bit left behind to be honest... :-/ cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Monday, 28 February 2011 11:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hey All Thanks I have got to try out Stuart suggestion for updating stored procedures in SQL Server using ACCESS. I am not finding any significant differences in speed when using ACCESS tables and queries versus SQL Server tables and pass through queries, I assume that is because I am doing my testing on my local machine and not on a network (or Web). Are any of your developing full blown ACCESS/SQL Server applications for clients? If so what type of an app is it? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 11:17:24 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 09:17:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the problem with the invoice. It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple invoice details. The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a classic case of why you should not use a natural key as your PK. What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer an accurate short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the description (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" turned on.) -- Stuart On 28 Feb 2011 at 17:36, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > <> > > Occasionally on a lookup table if a client insists on having a short > code > along with a description. Then I do this: > > LookupCode - Text - PK > Description - Text > > as I don't see any sense in doing this: > > LookupID - Autonumber - PK > Code - Text - CK > Description - Text > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 11:47:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 12:47:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 11:55:40 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 12:55:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: NOW THIS IS COOL !!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D6D331C.9050107@colbyconsulting.com> John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Stephen Joy wrote: > > *THIS IS INTERESTING.......... PLEASE FORWARD TO YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES... * > *Click on the year you were born and read the news for that year. > ** > _1900_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1900.html ) > _1901_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1901.html ) > _1902_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1902.html ) > _1903_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1903.html ) > _1904_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1904.html ) > _1905_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1905.html ) > _1906_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1906.html ) _* > *1907_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1907.html > _1908_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1908.html ) > _1909_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1909.html ) > _1910_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1910.html) > _1911_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1911.html ) > _1912_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1912.html ) > _1913_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1913.html ) > _1914_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1914.html ) > _1915_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1915.html ) > _1916_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1916.html ) > _1917_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1917.html ) > _1918_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1918.html ) > _1919_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1919.html ) > _1920_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1920.html ) > _1921_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1921.html ) > _1922_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1922.html ) > _1923_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1923.html ) > _1924_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1924.html ) > _1925_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1925.html ) > _1926_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1926.html ) > _1927_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1927.html ) > _1928_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1928.html ) > _1929_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1929.html ) > _1930_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1930.html ) > _1931_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1931.html ) > _1932_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1932.html ) > _1933_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1933.html ) > _1934_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1934.html ) > _1935_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1935.html ) > _1936_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1936.html ) > _1937_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1937.html ) > _1938_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1938.html ) > _1939_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1939.html ) > _1940_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1940.html ) > _1941_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1941.html ) > _1942_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1942.html ) > _1943_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1943.html ) > _1944_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1944.html ) > _1945_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1945.html ) > _1946_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1946.html ) > _1947_ ( http://www..infoplease.com/year/1947.html ) > _1948_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1948.html ) > _1949_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1949.html ) > _1950_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1950.html ) > _1951_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1951.html ) > _1952_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1952.html ) > _1953_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1953.html ) > _1954_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1954.html ) > _1955_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1955.html ) > _1956_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1956.html ) > _1957_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1957.html ) > _1958_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1958.html ) > _1959_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1959.html ) > _1960_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1960.html ) > _1961_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1961.html ) > _1962_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1962.html ) > _1963_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1963.html ) > _1964_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1964.html ) > _1965_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1965.html ) > _1966_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1966.html ) > _1967_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1967....html ) > _1968_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1968.html ) > _1969_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1969.html ) > _1970_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1970.html ) > _1971_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1971.html ) > _1972_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1972.html ) > _1973_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1973.html ) > _1974_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1974.html ) > _1975_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1975.html ) > _1976_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1976.html ) > _1977_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1977.html ) > _1978_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1978.html ) > _1979_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1979.html ) > _1980_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1980.html ) > _1981_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1981.html ) > _1982_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1982.html ) > _1983_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1983.html ) > _1984_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1984.html ) > _1985_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1985.html ) ; > _1986_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1986.html ) > _1987_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1987.html ) > _1988_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1988.html ) > _1989_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1989.html ) > _1990_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1990. html ) > _1991_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1991.html ) > _1992_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1992.html ) > _1993_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1993.html ) > _1994_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1994.html ) > _1995_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1995.html ) > _1996_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1996.html ) > _1997_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1997.html ) > _1998_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1998.html ) > _1999_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1999.html ) > _2000_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2000.html ) > _2001_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2001.html ) > _2002_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2002.html ) > _2003_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2003.html ) > _2004_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2004.html ) > _2005_ (http://www.infoplease.com/year/2005.html ) > _2006_ (http://www.infoplease.com/year/2006..html ;* > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > * From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 12:08:05 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 10:08:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I do too. On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:47 AM, jwcolby wrote: > When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an > autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need > an autonumber pk! > > I then proceed to create the fields. > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 12:37:23 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 13:37:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <0DF5844BACEB481BA6609F13FFECD526@XPS> <> That's really not true. A proper design, natural key or not would have solved the issue. <> Neither do I, but that's simply for performance reasons. However it does mean that I need to maintain one additional index in a lot of cases. JimD. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the problem with the invoice. It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple invoice details. The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a classic case of why you should not use a natural key as your PK. What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer an accurate short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the description (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" turned on.) -- Stuart On 28 Feb 2011 at 17:36, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > <> > > Occasionally on a lookup table if a client insists on having a short > code > along with a description. Then I do this: > > LookupCode - Text - PK > Description - Text > > as I don't see any sense in doing this: > > LookupID - Autonumber - PK > Code - Text - CK > Description - Text > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 12:40:26 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 13:40:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue Mar 1 12:50:06 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 13:50:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 13:12:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 14:12:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than one would think. If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > So on a many to many linking table you would do this: > > tblBooksAndAuthors > LinkID - Autonumber - PK > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B > > And not simply: > > tblBooksAndAuthors > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B > > and eliminate an index? If so, why not? > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an > autoincrement PK. I no > longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! > > I then proceed to create the fields. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the >> problem with the invoice. >> >> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By >> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from > multiple >> invoice details. >> >> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it >> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan >> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >> classic case of why >> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >> >> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no > longer >> an accurate >> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the >> tables which store it >> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >> description >> >> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" >> turned on.) >> >> From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 1 13:34:15 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 22:34:15 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: <0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 14:22:56 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 15:22:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: Lambert, It needs a unique index, which the Author/Book combination provides. Not sure why the original post got formatted that way, but it should have looked like this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B Which might be clearer. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 01:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 15:12:28 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 16:12:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Curriculum Developer Message-ID: <599FB9B49B8A40A29D6D4108223FD487@SusanHarkins> I've got a reader trying to convert XCH formatted files (something called Curriculum Developer) to Access. Only built-in options saves partial data to text, but not all the data. Anyone familiar with this product or format? Susan H. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 15:30:25 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 07:30:25 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6D6571.14018.1C5A9937@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I agree. On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:42, jwcolby wrote: > > Upsize your tables to SQL Server and be done with it. Easier said > than done in some cases, quite trivial in others. > > My point really is that for *small* databases (back ends), simple ODBC > links to the data sitting in SQL Server will get you there instantly. > Then you can play around with more esoteric things like binding the > forms and combos to pass through queries and the like - assuming > A2K > of course. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 15:46:13 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 07:46:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com>, Message-ID: <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous operations. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 16:55:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 14:55:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <218527AECE044853B16161144994FADB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Good plan John. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 9:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 17:01:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 15:01:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Stuart: I must have missed your point but it is a great article. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous operations. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 17:09:40 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:09:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> My point was that I disagree with the statement "Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous". SQL Server function primarily using synchronous connections - whan you request a recordset, you wait for it to be returned. -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:01, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > I must have missed your point but it is a great article. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:46 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. > > MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous > operations. > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx > > > Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform > for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including > an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database > makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that > were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > -- > Stuart > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 17:26:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 15:26:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My point was that I disagree with the statement "Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous". SQL Server function primarily using synchronous connections - whan you request a recordset, you wait for it to be returned. -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:01, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > I must have missed your point but it is a great article. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:46 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. > > MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous > operations. > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx > > > Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform > for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including > an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database > makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that > were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > -- > Stuart > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 1 17:49:41 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:49:41 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <201103012349.p21NnoGD001965@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Ditto. I don't even ask if it is what the client wants. I know they will need it one day. Had a classic case of this sort of thing where I work. Been banging on at some folks here since November that their "It is our source of truth and there is nothing wrong with it" XL Spreadsheet is going to cause them (severe) grief sometime soon as their role expands. 5 months later they have decided that perhaps they do need to talk to me after all... aaaah, the sound of little light bulbs going "ping!". Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2011 4:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 17:55:12 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:55:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> See inline. On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data > is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any > difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request > is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then > retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the > data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it also works asynchronously: >From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a95265/wfapi11.htm A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous process is a process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. -- Stuart > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 18:21:04 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 19:21:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Message-ID: Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 18:29:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:29:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Win7Sp1 and ADO In-Reply-To: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D6D8F84.26700.1CFEF5CB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It seems that if you are using ADO and compile under Win7 SP1, your application may no longer work on previous Winodws versions :-( http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en- US/windowsgeneraldevelopmentissues/thread/3a4ce946-effa-4f77-98a6-34f11c6b5a13 -- Stuart From delam at zyterra.com Tue Mar 1 20:17:54 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie Elam) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 20:17:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use them for the following reasons: 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short code based on the name has changed (sigh). 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the relationship is crap without cascade updates. 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. Debbie On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I > need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than > one would think. > > If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >> create an >> autoincrement PK. I no >> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! >> >> I then proceed to create the fields. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>> discovered the >>> problem with the invoice. >>> >>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>> tables. By >>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >> multiple >>> invoice details. >>> >>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>> but it >>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>> temptation. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >>> classic case of why >>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>> >>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no >> longer >>> an accurate >>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>> all the >>> tables which store it >>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >>> description >>> >>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>> Update" >>> turned on.) >>> >>> From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 02:13:13 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:13:13 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com><9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 02:18:01 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:18:01 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart -- <<< That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. >>> But waiting "for the remote server to respond" in the case of AJAX doesn't mean stopping/blocking browser - such a waiting mean asynchronous "listening" for MS SQL to process (a set of) SQL requests, and when any one of the latter is ready asynchronously process its result (set). Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 2:55 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server See inline. On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data > is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any > difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request > is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then > retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the > data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it also works asynchronously: >From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 65/wfapi11.htm A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous process is a process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. -- Stuart > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > > > > > -- From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 03:35:05 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 19:35:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4D6E0F49.5585.1EF20FAB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> True, I missed the sneaky conflation of the terms "web based" and AJAX :-) -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:18, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Stuart -- > > <<< > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. >>> But > waiting "for the remote server to respond" in the case of AJAX doesn't > mean stopping/blocking browser - such a waiting mean asynchronous > "listening" for MS SQL to process (a set of) SQL requests, and when > any one of the latter is ready asynchronously process its result > (set). > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 2:55 To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > See inline. > On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the > > data is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > > > > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > > > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is > > any difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data > > request is queued, when the system has time it checks the request > > and then retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site > > indicating that the data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the > > data is transferred. > > > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > > > > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle > works, it also works asynchronously: > > > From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default > in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: > > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.90 > 2/a952 65/wfapi11.htm > > > A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A > synchronous process is a process that can be executed without > interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a > process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be > completed immediately, such as function activities that are not > deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return > control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until > it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can > immediately check for process results that were written to item > attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait > for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process > that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it > contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities > that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, > notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait > activities. > > -- > Stuart > > > > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you > > > > can work around its philosophy of design does not mean you > > > > should. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 03:35:34 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 19:35:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , Message-ID: <4D6E0F66.1395.1EF28335@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Jim's already stipulated that it's a many to many table. It alreay allows for multiple authors. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:13, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: ... > > Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one > author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several > authors for a book is a "simple change request"... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > ... >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to ?> tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to >> tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 04:19:34 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 13:19:34 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E0F66.1395.1EF28335@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , <4D6E0F66.1395.1EF28335@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <2494A646D19E498F860D33961D0B01AC@nant> Hi Stuart -- <<< Jim's already stipulated that it's a many to many table. It already allows for multiple authors. >>> Sorry, I have missed that. But anyway it doesn't make inapplicable my comment on using [LinkID] and "consistent data design", does it? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 12:36 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim's already stipulated that it's a many to many table. It alreay allows for multiple authors. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:13, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: ... > > Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one > author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several > authors for a book is a "simple change request"... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > ... >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to ?> tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to >> tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 06:48:42 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 07:48:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> Message-ID: <666D2EE834D24ED5ACCBE7BB396AF6B1@SusanHarkins> Yelp, yelp, and yelp! Hi Deb!!! Susan H. > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 07:04:14 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:04:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> Message-ID: <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Debbie, I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it as such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being entered more then once? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use them for the following reasons: 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short code based on the name has changed (sigh). 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the relationship is crap without cascade updates. 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. Debbie On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I > need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than > one would think. > > If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >> create an >> autoincrement PK. I no >> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! >> >> I then proceed to create the fields. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>> discovered the >>> problem with the invoice. >>> >>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>> tables. By >>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >> multiple >>> invoice details. >>> >>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>> but it >>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>> temptation. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >>> classic case of why >>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>> >>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no >> longer >>> an accurate >>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>> all the >>> tables which store it >>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >>> description >>> >>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>> Update" >>> turned on.) >>> >>> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 07:04:14 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:04:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com><9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Message-ID: <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 2 07:07:46 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 05:07:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Stuart: A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) with the BE data server. Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and if the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded some thing better.) When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to have dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of users. Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, bound connection. When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, under load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to respond and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of connection. A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection as the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that tight binding. So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get in to. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server See inline. On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data > is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any > difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request > is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then > retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the > data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it also works asynchronously: >From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 65/wfapi11.htm A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous process is a process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. -- Stuart From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Wed Mar 2 07:40:14 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 05:40:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have to do some rethinking here? From delam at zyterra.com Wed Mar 2 08:33:22 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:33:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Message-ID: Additional indexes are another matter entirely. They are appropriate and needed. Relationships with other tables should be immutable and not subject to data entry. Don't confuse the two. Debbie Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2011, at 7:04 AM, "Jim Dettman" wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about > it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent > from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports > out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why > natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that > used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it > happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I >> need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than >> one would think. >> >> If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >>> >>> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >>> >>> And not simply: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >>> >>> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >>> create an >>> autoincrement PK. I no >>> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber >>> pk! >>> >>> I then proceed to create the fields. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients >>>> were >>>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>>> discovered the >>>> problem with the invoice. >>>> >>>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by >>>> grouping >>>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>>> tables. By >>>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash >>>> matched >>>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >>> multiple >>>> invoice details. >>>> >>>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>>> but it >>>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have >>>> never >>>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>>> temptation. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>>> >>>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. >>>> This is a >>>> classic case of why >>>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>>> >>>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code >>>> is no >>> longer >>>> an accurate >>>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>>> all the >>>> tables which store it >>>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't >>>> match the >>>> description >>>> >>>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>>> Update" >>>> turned on.) >>>> >>>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 08:39:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:39:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being entered more then once? ohhhh don't go there!!! PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I >> need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than >> one would think. >> >> If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >>> >>> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >>> >>> And not simply: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >>> >>> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >>> create an >>> autoincrement PK. I no >>> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! >>> >>> I then proceed to create the fields. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >>>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>>> discovered the >>>> problem with the invoice. >>>> >>>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >>>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>>> tables. By >>>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >>>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >>> multiple >>>> invoice details. >>>> >>>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>>> but it >>>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >>>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>>> temptation. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>>> >>>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >>>> classic case of why >>>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>>> >>>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no >>> longer >>>> an accurate >>>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>>> all the >>>> tables which store it >>>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >>>> description >>>> >>>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>>> Update" >>>> turned on.) >>>> >>>> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 09:09:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:09:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D6E5DC1.5010005@colbyconsulting.com> >The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Me too, very powerful. >Do I have to do some rethinking here? Maybe but probably not. Generally speaking, you do not want to be displaying hundreds or thousands of records in any form. Generally speaking subforms by their nature limit the number of records, only returning children of the parent record. That said, they could still return thousands of ... checks for an account, or accounts for a bank, or... you get the picture. You need to stay aware of that issue and try to prevent pulling (as an example) 10,000 checks into a subform on an account form. You need to do this for any data store but it *may* be more of an issue for an ODBC linked table to a SQL Server. The problem here is we don't really know how JET handles things behind the scene. It is constantly watching as you edit records for example. Does (and can) it instantly go set a lock on an edited record in an ODBC linked table to a SQL Server? Or does it lock the record at the instant it tries to write back, and then look for changes to fields edited on this form? I think those of us interested in this issue need to experiment and discover what JET actually does. We can do that by opening the same FE twice, opening the same bound form to the same record, and then editing the record in one instance and watching the second instance. JET is a sophisticated little widget and it is still in charge of the application even if we are linked via ODBC to a SQL Server table / view. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:40 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and ADO connections all working. > One question is why would you link to SQL Server tables in Access when you can do everything with > ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do you just simply > link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say to keep the data simplified on a main form and > then allow the user to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is I like > subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have to do some rethinking here? From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 09:13:05 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 18:13:05 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com><9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> Message-ID: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 09:17:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:17:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has a pool of 100 connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out how). Someone on the internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you > could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) > with the BE data server. > > Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were > problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and if > the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to > corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years > ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded some > thing better.) > > When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to have > dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as > thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of > users. > > Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits > (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the > connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the > request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the > remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is > given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately > terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. > > In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the > background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, > bound connection. > > When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a > dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, under > load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to respond > and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of connection. > A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection as > the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that > tight binding. > > So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get > in to. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > See inline. > On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >> > > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request > and wait for a > reply before doing anything else. > >> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >> >> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >> > > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it > also works > asynchronously: > > >> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in > Oracle to. Note the > use of the word forced in the last sentence.: > > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 > 65/wfapi11.htm > > > A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous > process is a > process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The > Workflow Engine > executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that > can be > completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to > the background > engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling > application that initiated > the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you > can > immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes > or directly to the > database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. > ... > An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot > complete > immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples > of > activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, > notifications > with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. > > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Wed Mar 2 09:33:04 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 07:33:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E5DC1.5010005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6E5DC1.5010005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6E6330.5080601@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John So to use a subform I would need to link the SQL Server table on a bound form? Tabs I may be able to refresh the recordset as the user changes tabs (I think I read that somewhere for Tabs). jwcolby wrote: > >The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. > > Me too, very powerful. > > >Do I have to do some rethinking here? > > Maybe but probably not. Generally speaking, you do not want to be > displaying hundreds or thousands of records in any form. Generally > speaking subforms by their nature limit the number of records, only > returning children of the parent record. > > That said, they could still return thousands of ... checks for an > account, or accounts for a bank, or... you get the picture. > > You need to stay aware of that issue and try to prevent pulling (as an > example) 10,000 checks into a subform on an account form. You need to > do this for any data store but it *may* be more of an issue for an > ODBC linked table to a SQL Server. > > The problem here is we don't really know how JET handles things behind > the scene. It is constantly watching as you edit records for > example. Does (and can) it instantly go set a lock on an edited > record in an ODBC linked table to a SQL Server? Or does it lock the > record at the instant it tries to write back, and then look for > changes to fields edited on this form? > > I think those of us interested in this issue need to experiment and > discover what JET actually does. We can do that by opening the same > FE twice, opening the same bound form to the same record, and then > editing the record in one instance and watching the second instance. > > JET is a sophisticated little widget and it is still in charge of the > application even if we are linked via ODBC to a SQL Server table / view. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:40 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > >> Hey All >> I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and >> ADO connections all working. >> One question is why would you link to SQL Server tables in Access >> when you can do everything with >> ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms >> and tabs, do you just simply >> link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say to keep the data >> simplified on a main form and >> then allow the user to pick a record and then display a more detailed >> form. The thing is I like >> subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have to do >> some rethinking here? > From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 2 09:57:29 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:57:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> Message-ID: <003e01cbd8f2$8cf765a0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Go for it. . . . It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. A great debate about consistent vs inconsistent might be more profitable than discussing the person in the street reacting to the Banksters losing all the world's money. It seems only a few nations are immune to such. Well I better get back to work straightening out my once 'consistent' project. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade > Update" turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 2 10:02:30 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:02:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: You are definitely going into new territory, to my experience on this one. Having a bound system, connecting over the internet, I would suspect would drain resources from your BE server, (20+ dedicated connections per remote station? One for every bound table?) And then there is that flaky internet in between. Me thinks there is a good reason for not exceeding the default 100 connection...Have you calculated how much resources like bandwidth, CPU and Memory each connection requires? Fifteen years ago I tried to get a similar system working and failed but the internal design of Access may have improved dramatically since then. As I said before, hats off if you get it working. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has a pool of 100 connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out how). Someone on the internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you > could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) > with the BE data server. > > Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were > problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and if > the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to > corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years > ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded some > thing better.) > > When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to have > dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as > thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of > users. > > Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits > (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the > connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the > request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the > remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is > given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately > terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. > > In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the > background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, > bound connection. > > When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a > dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, under > load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to respond > and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of connection. > A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection as > the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that > tight binding. > > So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get > in to. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > See inline. > On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >> > > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request > and wait for a > reply before doing anything else. > >> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >> >> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >> > > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it > also works > asynchronously: > > >> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in > Oracle to. Note the > use of the word forced in the last sentence.: > > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 > 65/wfapi11.htm > > > A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous > process is a > process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The > Workflow Engine > executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that > can be > completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to > the background > engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling > application that initiated > the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you > can > immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes > or directly to the > database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. > ... > An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot > complete > immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples > of > activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, > notifications > with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 10:22:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:22:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> John, <> Ah why not? ;) <> I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a relation by it's very definition would form a unique index. << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being entered more then once? ohhhh don't go there!!! PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: <> From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 10:40:48 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:40:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Message-ID: Debbie, <> There are two contexts to a database design; a logical one and a physical one. Your working with the physical one, I'm talking about the logical one. <> They would not be if you used natural keys in a db design. Don't get me wrong; I'm not advocating that. But if we had systems capable of handling natural key designs performance wise, then additional indexes would not be required. Additional indexes are only required because we take the shortcut of using auto numbers as keys rather then using a natural key to model the data physically. Interesting footnote: Access when first released was often touted as being truest to relational theory because it had the feature of cascading updates and deletes. <> That's true whether you used auto number or natural keys. However if you did use natural keys in a database design, then data entry could very well change data that the key is based on, but it would still not change the relationships between relations. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Additional indexes are another matter entirely. They are appropriate and needed. Relationships with other tables should be immutable and not subject to data entry. Don't confuse the two. Debbie Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2011, at 7:04 AM, "Jim Dettman" wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about > it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent > from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports > out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why > natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that > used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it > happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I >> need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than >> one would think. >> >> If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >>> >>> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >>> >>> And not simply: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >>> >>> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >>> create an >>> autoincrement PK. I no >>> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber >>> pk! >>> >>> I then proceed to create the fields. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients >>>> were >>>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>>> discovered the >>>> problem with the invoice. >>>> >>>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by >>>> grouping >>>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>>> tables. By >>>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash >>>> matched >>>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >>> multiple >>>> invoice details. >>>> >>>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>>> but it >>>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have >>>> never >>>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>>> temptation. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>>> >>>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. >>>> This is a >>>> classic case of why >>>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>>> >>>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code >>>> is no >>> longer >>>> an accurate >>>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>>> all the >>>> tables which store it >>>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't >>>> match the >>>> description >>>> >>>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>>> Update" >>>> turned on.) >>>> >>>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 11:00:22 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 20:00:22 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <003e01cbd8f2$8cf765a0$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> <003e01cbd8f2$8cf765a0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <8B418CB4E9A84AACAC986BCAA7539C8A@nant> Hi Edward, Thank you for your note. <<< It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. >>> Refactoring is used to keep a project consistent/get a project back into a consistent state. See also "Technical Debt" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt) related books, articles, discussions... and how to handle that "technical debt" to keep one's project consistent... In my experience approx. 20% of a project time is needed to keep it consistent. That "additional" efforts do pay back a lot in long run. And if one will keep a "technical debt" growing they will get "technically bankrupt" sooner or later. One (a seasoned developer) should probably better not inform their customers when and how they keep their project "technical debt" work performed but for a "good" customer with long lasting relations such a "secret" should be opened... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 18:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Go for it. . . . It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. A great debate about consistent vs inconsistent might be more profitable than discussing the person in the street reacting to the Banksters losing all the world's money. It seems only a few nations are immune to such. Well I better get back to work straightening out my once 'consistent' project. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade > Update" turned on.) > > From patrinod at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 11:47:14 2011 From: patrinod at gmail.com (Den Patrino) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 12:47:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings Message-ID: Members ... It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. Are there pros and cons to one or the other. TIA Patty From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 2 11:48:58 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:48:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <8B418CB4E9A84AACAC986BCAA7539C8A@nant> Message-ID: <000601cbd902$1cb2e840$5bdea8c0@edz1> My pleasure. . . Have to run, and get back to my can of worms. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 10:00 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Edward, Thank you for your note. <<< It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. >>> Refactoring is used to keep a project consistent/get a project back into a consistent state. See also "Technical Debt" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt) related books, articles, discussions... and how to handle that "technical debt" to keep one's project consistent... In my experience approx. 20% of a project time is needed to keep it consistent. That "additional" efforts do pay back a lot in long run. And if one will keep a "technical debt" growing they will get "technically bankrupt" sooner or later. One (a seasoned developer) should probably better not inform their customers when and how they keep their project "technical debt" work performed but for a "good" customer with long lasting relations such a "secret" should be opened... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 18:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Go for it. . . . It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. A great debate about consistent vs inconsistent might be more profitable than discussing the person in the street reacting to the Banksters losing all the world's money. It seems only a few nations are immune to such. Well I better get back to work straightening out my once 'consistent' project. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade > Update" turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 2 12:55:56 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:55:56 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Patty: I am not sure this will answer you question but find a link to three different sites giving sample connection strings for various versions of MS SQL and some with explanations. (The list is half way down the page.) http://www.databaseadvisors.com/reference/referencemisc.asp HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Den Patrino Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:47 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings Members ... It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. Are there pros and cons to one or the other. TIA Patty -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 13:28:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 14:28:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6E9A78.2020809@colbyconsulting.com> My connection leak is actually happening with a complex C# system I am designing. My guess is that Access would use a single connection for all linked tables. There is no reason to have more than one for all of the tables. As I said, this is all new to me. I will be doing some tests soon to look at the locking issues. I am using the 2007 run time so I have whatever advantage might be available in terms of the latest stuff. In fact a client has offered a copy of Access 2010 which I will probably take her up on. At that point my runtimes will be using 2010 whatever that might mean. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:02 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > You are definitely going into new territory, to my experience on this one. > Having a bound system, connecting over the internet, I would suspect would > drain resources from your BE server, (20+ dedicated connections per remote > station? One for every bound table?) And then there is that flaky internet > in between. > > Me thinks there is a good reason for not exceeding the default 100 > connection...Have you calculated how much resources like bandwidth, CPU and > Memory each connection requires? > > Fifteen years ago I tried to get a similar system working and failed but the > internal design of Access may have improved dramatically since then. As I > said before, hats off if you get it working. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 7:17 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has > a pool of 100 > connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out > how). Someone on the > internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Stuart: >> >> A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you >> could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) >> with the BE data server. >> >> Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were >> problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and > if >> the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to >> corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years >> ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded > some >> thing better.) >> >> When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to > have >> dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as >> thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of >> users. >> >> Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits >> (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the >> connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the >> request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the >> remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is >> given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately >> terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. >> >> In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the >> background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, >> bound connection. >> >> When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a >> dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, > under >> load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to > respond >> and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of > connection. >> A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection > as >> the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that >> tight binding. >> >> So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get >> in to. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> See inline. >> On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> >>> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >>> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >>> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >>> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >>> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >>> >> >> That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request >> and wait for a >> reply before doing anything else. >> >>> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >>> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >>> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >>> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >>> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >>> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >>> >>> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >>> >> >> No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, > it >> also works >> asynchronously: >> >> >>> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in >> Oracle to. Note the >> use of the word forced in the last sentence.: >> >> > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 >> 65/wfapi11.htm >> >> >> A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A > synchronous >> process is a >> process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. > The >> Workflow Engine >> executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that >> can be >> completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred > to >> the background >> engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling >> application that initiated >> the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, > you >> can >> immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes >> or directly to the >> database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. >> ... >> An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot >> complete >> immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. > Examples >> of >> activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, >> notifications >> with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. >> >> From rlister at actuarial-files.com Wed Mar 2 13:39:17 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 15:39:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database window Message-ID: <000001cbd911$87647410$962d5c30$@com> Hello to all of you, How do I hide the database window using code? TIA and Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 13:40:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 14:40:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. What? It certainly can. >As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. Yes they are just pointers or tags. My point is that in SQL Server you create a field with an integer. As a separate step you set it to be an auto-increment. As another separate step you set it to be the PK - SQL Server labels it as the PK of the table. As a result of making the field a PK sql server automatically creates a unique index, on that one field. At that point you have a long auto-increment that is a PK. At that point it has all of the attributes required to be and is in fact a surrogate key. It is indexed unique, it is defined by SQL Server as the PK and it's value is automatically created by the system with no input from the user. It is a surrogate and it performs as one. I use them all the time. All of which has nothing whatsoever to do with preventing duplicate records. The PK surrogate key has a unique index, however it does not prevent duplicates *records*, it just prevents duplicate primary key values. Two separate issues. > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. No, a surrogate PK is a pointer. You can in fact have auto-numbers that are not used as the surrogate PK. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:22 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > <> > > Ah why not? ;) > > <> > > I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a relation > by it's very definition would form a unique index. > > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> > > Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the > function of one. > > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or > tags. > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being > entered more then once? > > ohhhh don't go there!!! > > PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does > not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. > > That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> Debbie, >> >> I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it > as >> such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from >> being entered more then once? >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used >> (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use >> them for the following reasons: >> >> 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is >> supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of >> a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. >> They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short >> code based on the name has changed (sigh). >> 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a >> problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the >> relationship is crap without cascade updates. >> 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural >> keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used >> docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional >> countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, >> refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to >> work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head >> too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it >> probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. >> >> Debbie >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > <> > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 2 13:50:04 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 19:50:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E9A78.2020809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> , <4D6E9A78.2020809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB965FD@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> try this re connection count-just lifted of web SELECT DB_NAME(dbid) as DBName, COUNT(dbid) as NumberOfConnections, loginame as LoginName FROM sys.sysprocesses WHERE dbid > 0 GROUP BY dbid, loginame Martin WP Reid Information Services The McClay Library Queen's University of Belfast 10 College Park Belfast BT7 1LP Tel : 02890976174 Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sharepoint Training Portal ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby [jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 02 March 2011 19:28 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My connection leak is actually happening with a complex C# system I am designing. My guess is that Access would use a single connection for all linked tables. There is no reason to have more than one for all of the tables. As I said, this is all new to me. I will be doing some tests soon to look at the locking issues. I am using the 2007 run time so I have whatever advantage might be available in terms of the latest stuff. In fact a client has offered a copy of Access 2010 which I will probably take her up on. At that point my runtimes will be using 2010 whatever that might mean. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:02 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > You are definitely going into new territory, to my experience on this one. > Having a bound system, connecting over the internet, I would suspect would > drain resources from your BE server, (20+ dedicated connections per remote > station? One for every bound table?) And then there is that flaky internet > in between. > > Me thinks there is a good reason for not exceeding the default 100 > connection...Have you calculated how much resources like bandwidth, CPU and > Memory each connection requires? > > Fifteen years ago I tried to get a similar system working and failed but the > internal design of Access may have improved dramatically since then. As I > said before, hats off if you get it working. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 7:17 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has > a pool of 100 > connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out > how). Someone on the > internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Stuart: >> >> A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you >> could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) >> with the BE data server. >> >> Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were >> problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and > if >> the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to >> corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years >> ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded > some >> thing better.) >> >> When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to > have >> dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as >> thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of >> users. >> >> Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits >> (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the >> connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the >> request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the >> remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is >> given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately >> terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. >> >> In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the >> background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, >> bound connection. >> >> When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a >> dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, > under >> load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to > respond >> and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of > connection. >> A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection > as >> the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that >> tight binding. >> >> So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get >> in to. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> See inline. >> On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> >>> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >>> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >>> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >>> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >>> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >>> >> >> That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request >> and wait for a >> reply before doing anything else. >> >>> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >>> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >>> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >>> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >>> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >>> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >>> >>> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >>> >> >> No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, > it >> also works >> asynchronously: >> >> >>> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in >> Oracle to. Note the >> use of the word forced in the last sentence.: >> >> > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 >> 65/wfapi11.htm >> >> >> A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A > synchronous >> process is a >> process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. > The >> Workflow Engine >> executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that >> can be >> completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred > to >> the background >> engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling >> application that initiated >> the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, > you >> can >> immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes >> or directly to the >> database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. >> ... >> An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot >> complete >> immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. > Examples >> of >> activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, >> notifications >> with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. >> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:47:06 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:47:06 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> When does a "many to many linking table" cease to be a "simply a many to many linking table" How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product formula and have to store a quantity as well? What about if you subsequently need to store info such as the start date of the link relationship. Do you then add a PK? -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 8:04, Jim Dettman wrote: > table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other > fields would ever be added to it. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:53:17 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:53:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com>, <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6EAE3D.24667.215EF7F4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> D,RFC :-) -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > <> > > Ah why not? ;) > > <> > > I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a > relation > by it's very definition would form a unique index. > > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set > of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those > fields.>> > > Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a > surrogate > key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the > function of one. > > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers > or > tags. > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from > being > entered more then once? > > ohhhh don't go there!!! > > PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber > PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility > of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and > setting a unique index on those fields. > > That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Debbie, > > > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking > > about it > as > > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent > > from being entered more then once? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie > > Elam Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > > them for the following reasons: > > > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports > > out of a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 > > years. They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of > > a short code based on the name has changed (sigh). 2. Real Data is > > subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a problem > > happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the relationship > > is crap without cascade updates. 3. Real data is never as unique as > > you may think. This is why natural keys usually evolve into > > compound keys. Had a patent database that used docket numbers as a > > natural key. As they supported additional countries, they added > > country. As addendum were added to the patent, refines were added. > > Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to work with. To top > > it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head too. Rare > > occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it probably > > occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. > > > > Debbie > > > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > <> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:53:16 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:53:16 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility with Win7 SP1? :-) If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have a lot of extra work to do :-( On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and > ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL > Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in > Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do > you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say > to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user > to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is > I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have > to do some rethinking here? -- AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:59:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:59:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D6EAF9E.15472.21645AAC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I always use full DSN-less connection strings for portability of the application. No need to worry about whether the DSN is present on every workstation and it's easy to change in an update to the FE if you need to change your connection ( say been a live and a training BE database). (A very common typo in the interent age, it's DSN (data source name) not DNS ( domain name system) -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 12:47, Den Patrino wrote: > Members ... > > It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've > just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. > I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a > DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. > > Are there pros and cons to one or the other. > > TIA > Patty > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 15:02:49 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:02:49 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4D6EB079.26925.2167B356@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> A very useful reference. I keep it bookmarked and it is my first point of call if I have anything out of the ordinary to connect to. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 10:55, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Patty: > > I am not sure this will answer you question but find a link to three > different sites giving sample connection strings for various versions > of MS SQL and some with explanations. (The list is half way down the > page.) > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com/reference/referencemisc.asp > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Den Patrino > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:47 AM To: > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect > strings > > Members ... > > It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've > just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. > I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a > DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. > > Are there pros and cons to one or the other. > > TIA > Patty > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 15:19:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:19:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Database window In-Reply-To: <000001cbd911$87647410$962d5c30$@com> References: <000001cbd911$87647410$962d5c30$@com> Message-ID: <4D6EB47C.12048.217761AE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The simple way is to select an object in the database window first and then hide the window when it becomes active. DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide The disadvantage of this is that it "flashes" the database window on top of everything. The better way is to paste the following code into a module and call "ShowDbWindow False": Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Declare Function GetClassNameA Lib "user32" ( _ ByVal hwnd As Long, _ ByVal lpClassName As String, _ ByVal nMaxCount As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function GetWindow Lib "user32" ( _ ByVal hwnd As Long, _ ByVal wCmd As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function ShowWindowAsync Lib "user32" ( _ ByVal hwnd As Long, _ ByVal nCmdShow As Long) _ As Boolean Private Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 Private Const GW_CHILD = 5 Private Const SW_HIDE = 0 Private Const SW_SHOW = 5 Private Function GetClassName( _ ByVal hwnd As Long) _ As String Dim lpClassName As String Dim lLen As Long lpClassName = String(255, 32) lLen = GetClassNameA(hwnd, lpClassName, 255) If lLen > 0 Then GetClassName = Left(lpClassName, lLen) End If End Function Public Sub ShowDbWindow(ByVal bCmdShow As Boolean) Dim hWndApp As Long hWndApp = GetWindow(Application.hWndAccessApp, GW_CHILD) Do Until hWndApp = 0 If GetClassName(hWndApp) = "MDIClient" Then Exit Do End If hWndApp = GetWindow(hWndApp, GW_HWNDNEXT) Loop If hWndApp > 0 Then hWndApp = GetWindow(hWndApp, GW_CHILD) Do Until hWndApp = 0 If GetClassName(hWndApp) = "ODb" Then Exit Do End If hWndApp = GetWindow(hWndApp, GW_HWNDNEXT) Loop End If If hWndApp > 0 Then ShowWindowAsync hWndApp, IIf(bCmdShow, SW_SHOW, SW_HIDE) End If End Sub On 2 Mar 2011 at 15:39, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello to all of you, > > > > How do I hide the database window using code? > > > > TIA and Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 15:47:06 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 16:47:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, << << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. What? It certainly can. >> What then is your definition of a PK? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 02:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. What? It certainly can. >As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. Yes they are just pointers or tags. My point is that in SQL Server you create a field with an integer. As a separate step you set it to be an auto-increment. As another separate step you set it to be the PK - SQL Server labels it as the PK of the table. As a result of making the field a PK sql server automatically creates a unique index, on that one field. At that point you have a long auto-increment that is a PK. At that point it has all of the attributes required to be and is in fact a surrogate key. It is indexed unique, it is defined by SQL Server as the PK and it's value is automatically created by the system with no input from the user. It is a surrogate and it performs as one. I use them all the time. All of which has nothing whatsoever to do with preventing duplicate records. The PK surrogate key has a unique index, however it does not prevent duplicates *records*, it just prevents duplicate primary key values. Two separate issues. > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. No, a surrogate PK is a pointer. You can in fact have auto-numbers that are not used as the surrogate PK. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:22 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > <> > > Ah why not? ;) > > <> > > I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a relation > by it's very definition would form a unique index. > > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> > > Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the > function of one. > > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or > tags. > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being > entered more then once? > > ohhhh don't go there!!! > > PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does > not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. > > That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> Debbie, >> >> I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it > as >> such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from >> being entered more then once? >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used >> (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use >> them for the following reasons: >> >> 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is >> supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of >> a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. >> They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short >> code based on the name has changed (sigh). >> 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a >> problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the >> relationship is crap without cascade updates. >> 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural >> keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used >> docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional >> countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, >> refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to >> work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head >> too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it >> probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. >> >> Debbie >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > <> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 15:57:18 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 16:57:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: I have been doing it that way since Access 2000 first introduced ADP files. I never passed through the ODBC stage, just went straight to ADPs SQL Server. I've done a variety of apps this way. The biggest was an app for a large travel agency/event system. Another significant one was for PCB management facilities in Ontario; another was a typical Time/Billing app; another was a safety assessment engineering app that's going nation-wide (that is, Canada) now. I'm so into that mode it never occurs to me to use Access as the Back End any more. If it's on the small side, I'll use SQL Express instead of the full-blown product. Arthur On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > Thanks > I have got to try out Stuart suggestion for updating stored procedures in > SQL Server using ACCESS. > I am not finding any significant differences in speed when using ACCESS > tables and queries versus SQL Server tables and pass through queries, I > assume that is because I am doing my testing on my local machine and not on > a network (or Web). > > Are any of your developing full blown ACCESS/SQL Server applications for > clients? If so what type of an app is it? > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 16:12:40 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 17:12:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, <> It never does as your modeling a join and not some "thing" like a customer, book, or author. << How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product formula and have to store a quantity as well?>> That's a BOM (Bill of Materials) type structure and a one to many. <> You never would, but if you did it would look like this: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B CreatedDT - D/T But that doesn't make any sense as a many to many record is added at the same time as adding a record on one of the sides represented by the table. For example, when entering a book, a user would be forced to select a "written by" and the linking record to the author would be added at that point. You can't have a book without an author. So you would include a CreatedDT on tblBooks rather then on the linking table. One automatically implies the other. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:47 PM To: Jim Dettman; Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When does a "many to many linking table" cease to be a "simply a many to many linking table" How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product formula and have to store a quantity as well? What about if you subsequently need to store info such as the start date of the link relationship. Do you then add a PK? -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 8:04, Jim Dettman wrote: > table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other > fields would ever be added to it. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 16:40:50 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:40:50 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4D6EC772.12133.21C16FA4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Comments inline. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 17:12, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > < many to many linking table" >> > > It never does as your modeling a join and not some "thing" like a > customer, book, or author. > You're not modelling a join - a join is just a programming construct. You are modelling a real world relationship which can have attributes. > << How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product > formula and have to store a quantity as well?>> > > That's a BOM (Bill of Materials) type structure and a one to many. No, it's many to many. Paint Chemical ... Satin White Titanium Dioxide Satin White Water ... Satin Yellow Titaniun Dioxide Satin Yellow Water ... > < date of the link relationship.>> > > You never would, but if you did it would look like this: > I wish I had a buck for every time I've seen "..never would" subseuqnetly happened. > tblBooksAndAuthors > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B > CreatedDT - D/T > > But that doesn't make any sense as a many to many record is added at > the > same time as adding a record on one of the sides represented by the > table. > > For example, when entering a book, a user would be forced to select > a > "written by" and the linking record to the author would be added at > that point. You can't have a book without an author. > > So you would include a CreatedDT on tblBooks rather then on the > linking > table. One automatically implies the other. > I'm talking about the created date of the relationbship, not the objects. For example: Within the Royal Papua Yacht Club we have a number "sub Clubs" which members can join . (Scuba, Deep Sea Fishing, Sailing, Canoe Racing) . I may decide to join the Deep Sea Fishing Club at some point in the future. That join date needs to stored at the link, not in my master record. Members MembPK MembNo MembName membJoinDate ' Joined RPYC CLubs ClubPK ClubName MemberClubs ClubFK MemberFK JoinDate 'Joined the sub-Club From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 2 17:01:15 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 10:01:15 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> Message-ID: <201103022301.p22N1MQo013694@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ haha "become a new "great debate"". That was pretty much what I was thinking. Just when things around here had settled down on the bound / unbound skirmishes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, 3 March 2011 2:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 17:04:10 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 18:04:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> My definition of a PK is: 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. Candidate keys perform function #1 above. There may be several candidate keys. They cannot all be the PK because there can be only one PK! Whether you use a candidate key or a surrogate key as your PK, selecting it as you PK means it CAN AND IN FACT does both. So a PK is a PK simply because it can do both 1 and 2 above AND you select it to be your PK. It does *not* have to be used as a FK to be a PK. However IF you need a FK in a child table to link back to the parent table, then you are *supposed to* use the PK. If you are a fruit or nut, you could use any candidate key to do that. You could even use one candidate key as the FK in table ABC and a second candidate key as your PK in table XYZ. You would of course be a fruit or nut to do that. In fact (IMHO) you would be a fruit or nut to use a natural key at all. ;) An autonumber field with a unique index on it is automatically a candidate key. It can be used to uniquely identify any given record in the table - #1 above. However it in no way guarantees the uniqueness of the *data* in the table. Only a unique index covering a set of fields which, taken together guarantees unique data, will in fact enforce data uniqueness. A natural PK, by definition, performs both. By making it the PK, SQL Server automatically creates a unique index on the entire set of fields, and guarantees *data* uniqueness and, while it is at it, calls it the PK. If we are going to use a surrogate PK, then we *still* have to perform the analysis to find at least one candidate key, and we have to manually create a unique index to cover that candidate key (set of fields). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 4:47 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from > the responsibility of > analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a > unique index on those > fields.>> > > >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled > as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. > > What? It certainly can. >>> > > What then is your definition of a PK? > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 20:11:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 21:11:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AMD Shows Off 16-Core 'Interlagos' Reference Design - Legit Reviews Message-ID: <4D6EF8D5.7060804@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://www.legitreviews.com/news/10164/ From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 09:02:40 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 10:02:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, <> Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. In fact it goes to the very heart of a relational design. When you model data relationally, it is the logical organization of data and its actual meaning that is being worked with. The aspect of how that model is physically implemented is not a consideration at all. With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Rows are instances of whatever your modeling and columns are the attributes. The combination of one or more attributes *must* yield a unique key. If not, then you don't have a proper relation and must add more attributes. When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. To do the latter, you need to tack on another index, which represents either the true primary key for the data, one of the candidates, or a super key. However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go in and change it at will. However if it is assigned to the object it's associated with and turned into an attribute, then it becomes a surrogate PK. An example of that would be handing it to a customer and using it as a customer code. Once I do that, I now cannot go in at will and change it now without informing the customer. Its been given meaning in a logical context. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 06:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My definition of a PK is: 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. Candidate keys perform function #1 above. There may be several candidate keys. They cannot all be the PK because there can be only one PK! Whether you use a candidate key or a surrogate key as your PK, selecting it as you PK means it CAN AND IN FACT does both. So a PK is a PK simply because it can do both 1 and 2 above AND you select it to be your PK. It does *not* have to be used as a FK to be a PK. However IF you need a FK in a child table to link back to the parent table, then you are *supposed to* use the PK. If you are a fruit or nut, you could use any candidate key to do that. You could even use one candidate key as the FK in table ABC and a second candidate key as your PK in table XYZ. You would of course be a fruit or nut to do that. In fact (IMHO) you would be a fruit or nut to use a natural key at all. ;) An autonumber field with a unique index on it is automatically a candidate key. It can be used to uniquely identify any given record in the table - #1 above. However it in no way guarantees the uniqueness of the *data* in the table. Only a unique index covering a set of fields which, taken together guarantees unique data, will in fact enforce data uniqueness. A natural PK, by definition, performs both. By making it the PK, SQL Server automatically creates a unique index on the entire set of fields, and guarantees *data* uniqueness and, while it is at it, calls it the PK. If we are going to use a surrogate PK, then we *still* have to perform the analysis to find at least one candidate key, and we have to manually create a unique index to cover that candidate key (set of fields). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 4:47 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from > the responsibility of > analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a > unique index on those > fields.>> > > >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled > as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. > > What? It certainly can. >>> > > What then is your definition of a PK? > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 09:02:40 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 10:02:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6EC772.12133.21C16FA4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4D6EC772.12133.21C16FA4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, <> I certainly would not model it that way. I have always done that as a one to many BOM structure: tblBOM BOMID - Autonumber - PK AssemblyID - Long - FK to tblItems - CK1-A LineNumber - Long - CK1-b ComponetID - Long - FK to tblItems QPA - Decimal EffectiveDate - DT IneffectiveDate - DT and build up a where used index on the fly based on effective/ineffective dates. <> I understand your point and you are correct. You could add the date (along with a bunch of other attributes) to the linking table and at that point it would no longer be a "simple" linking table. However that does not change my original point: the need to add an auto number PK simply because "I always do it that way" is not required. The pairing of ClubFK and MemberFK work fine as a primary key. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 05:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Comments inline. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 17:12, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > < many to many linking table" >> > > It never does as your modeling a join and not some "thing" like a > customer, book, or author. > You're not modelling a join - a join is just a programming construct. You are modelling a real world relationship which can have attributes. > << How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product > formula and have to store a quantity as well?>> > > That's a BOM (Bill of Materials) type structure and a one to many. No, it's many to many. Paint Chemical ... Satin White Titanium Dioxide Satin White Water ... Satin Yellow Titaniun Dioxide Satin Yellow Water ... > < date of the link relationship.>> > > You never would, but if you did it would look like this: > I wish I had a buck for every time I've seen "..never would" subseuqnetly happened. > tblBooksAndAuthors > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B > CreatedDT - D/T > > But that doesn't make any sense as a many to many record is added at > the > same time as adding a record on one of the sides represented by the > table. > > For example, when entering a book, a user would be forced to select > a > "written by" and the linking record to the author would be added at > that point. You can't have a book without an author. > > So you would include a CreatedDT on tblBooks rather then on the > linking > table. One automatically implies the other. > I'm talking about the created date of the relationbship, not the objects. For example: Within the Royal Papua Yacht Club we have a number "sub Clubs" which members can join . (Scuba, Deep Sea Fishing, Sailing, Canoe Racing) . I may decide to join the Deep Sea Fishing Club at some point in the future. That join date needs to stored at the link, not in my master record. Members MembPK MembNo MembName membJoinDate ' Joined RPYC CLubs ClubPK ClubName MemberClubs ClubFK MemberFK JoinDate 'Joined the sub-Club -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 3 10:58:40 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 11:58:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: " However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go in and change it at will." No you cannot just go in and change it at will. You also have to go find all the records in all the tables that use that Autonumber value as the foreign key back to the table they are relate to. So that's why I don't make an Autonumber PK any kind of meaningful attribute for a record. Real data used to construct Natural PKs can change too, and then it gets messy. Lambert's 2 cents. From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 12:40:33 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 13:40:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> Lambert, <> Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. However I could do that at any time. Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. You still could at that point change it, but not without changing something else. It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all assets. New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits instead of the current 8. I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without going to every asset and re-labeling it. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 11:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server " However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go in and change it at will." No you cannot just go in and change it at will. You also have to go find all the records in all the tables that use that Autonumber value as the foreign key back to the table they are relate to. So that's why I don't make an Autonumber PK any kind of meaningful attribute for a record. Real data used to construct Natural PKs can change too, and then it gets messy. Lambert's 2 cents. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 3 13:00:20 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 11:00:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net> Stuart, I missed that. What was the day of the message? Are you saying that an app will break if it uses ADO and is moved to a Win7 SP1 machine? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 12:53 PM To: Tony Septav; Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility with Win7 SP1? :-) If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have a lot of extra work to do :-( On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and > ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL > Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in > Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do > you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say > to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user > to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is > I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have > to do some rethinking here? -- AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 3 13:31:14 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 14:31:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> Message-ID: I agree 100%.You are describing the reasons why record attribute should *not* be used as primary keys, IMHO. That is precisely why *my* primary keys have no meaning. They are just autonumbers (like John's) and I never have any need to change them. If I need a "Serial Number" or "Order Number" or any such meaningful value then that will be generated by a function that is "aware" of what's happening in the real world (like what was the last order number issued). Lambert :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Lambert, <> Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. However I could do that at any time. Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. You still could at that point change it, but not without changing something else. It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all assets. New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits instead of the current 8. I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without going to every asset and re-labeling it. Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 13:46:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 14:46:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, Pretty much nonsense in my book. > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. (just one example) http://www.1keydata.com/sql/sql-primary-key.html >>>*A primary key is used to uniquely identify each row in a table.* My PK does that! >>>It can either be part of the actual record itself , *or it can be an artificial field (one that has nothing to do with the actual record).* That would be my PK. In MY world, a PK is a FK in another table. It is a pointer back to the parent. That is it's only purpose! PERIOD. (full stop) >In fact it goes to the very heart of a relational design. And has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with the pointers between records. PERIOD. (full stop) YOU (personally and individually) MAKE it have something to do with the pointer, but I do not. And I do not have to, and neither do you. You CHOOSE to make them "related" but they are not. > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Yad yada yada *ad nasium* (meaning this crap makes me physically ill). And having absolutely NOTHING to do with the pointer between records. I have been doing this since the early 90s. Please save this for your intro to databases class. > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. Hmmm, I guess you need to take up your argument with Microsoft, not me. I open Access and create an autonumber and click a button and MICROSOFT calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I open up SQL Server, and I create a autoincrement and click a button and Microsoft calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I drag and drop this PK between the parent and child and the database engine sets up rules designed to enforce referential integrity. I guess what I am saying is I simply don't give a rat's patuty about academic horsepucky. What I care about is that I have a pointer and I have a unique index on a set of fields which guarantees *data* uniqueness and guess what... The two are not related. and... It works! So I have proven that *my* pointer and *my* data uniqueness are completely and totally unrelated, and *you* are simply arguing that I cannot call it a PK. *Don't care*. *Take it up with Microsoft*. When they stop calling it a PK so will I. I will then call it whatever they call it. In the meantime, we (as a functioning society of database designers) need a common vocabulary. Microsoft is calling my pointer a PK so I pretty much have to or I have to copy your page of horse pucky into every email to explain myself. *not happening* Jim, this happens whenever this subject comes up. Some (typically) oldtimer who went through college back when Codd was a young man and the god of database starts talking in academic terms, tuples and relations and all of that stuff. I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple in my life, it makes no difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. I understand what goes in each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to 3rd normal. I have read many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood (at the time I read it) *some* of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric. If I sound uninterested, or even argumentative, it is simply because I find this whole thing quite easy at the real life level, and I have used (what I was told to call) surrogate PKs since oh... about 1994 and it just works. So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 10:02 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > < > 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record > 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. > > NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE > COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. >>> > > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. In fact it goes to the > very heart of a relational design. When you model data relationally, it is > the logical organization of data and its actual meaning that is being worked > with. The aspect of how that model is physically implemented is not a > consideration at all. > > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Rows are > instances of whatever your modeling and columns are the attributes. The > combination of one or more attributes *must* yield a unique key. If not, > then you don't have a proper relation and must add more attributes. > > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as > a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row > uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. To do the latter, you > need to tack on another index, which represents either the true primary key > for the data, one of the candidates, or a super key. > > However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object > it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. > "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just > applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer > or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go > in and change it at will. > > However if it is assigned to the object it's associated with and turned > into an attribute, then it becomes a surrogate PK. An example of that > would be handing it to a customer and using it as a customer code. Once I > do that, I now cannot go in at will and change it now without informing the > customer. Its been given meaning in a logical context. > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 13:51:52 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 14:51:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. You are allowed to do what you are doing but you are not allowed to *call it* a primary key. Jim hasn't told us what we are supposed to call it, nor has he informed Microsoft that they are not allowed to call it a PK. Unfortunately (for Jim) Microsoft and pretty much the rest of the world *does* call it a PK. As far as I can tell, Jim is tilting at windmills. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 2:31 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > I agree 100%.You are describing the reasons why record attribute should *not* be used as primary keys, IMHO. That is precisely why *my* primary keys have no meaning. They are just autonumbers (like John's) and I never have any need to change them. If I need a "Serial Number" or "Order Number" or any such meaningful value then that will be generated by a function that is "aware" of what's happening in the real world (like what was the last order number issued). > > Lambert :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:41 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Lambert, > > <> > > Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. However I could do that at any time. > > Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. You still could at that point change it, but not without changing something else. > It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. > > For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all assets. > New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits instead of the current 8. > > I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without going to every asset and re-labeling it. > > Jim. > From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 14:10:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 15:10:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is just silly.>> That's not the point. <> So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server LOL, Pretty much nonsense in my book. > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. (just one example) http://www.1keydata.com/sql/sql-primary-key.html >>>*A primary key is used to uniquely identify each row in a table.* My PK does that! >>>It can either be part of the actual record itself , *or it can be an artificial field (one that has nothing to do with the actual record).* That would be my PK. In MY world, a PK is a FK in another table. It is a pointer back to the parent. That is it's only purpose! PERIOD. (full stop) >In fact it goes to the very heart of a relational design. And has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with the pointers between records. PERIOD. (full stop) YOU (personally and individually) MAKE it have something to do with the pointer, but I do not. And I do not have to, and neither do you. You CHOOSE to make them "related" but they are not. > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Yad yada yada *ad nasium* (meaning this crap makes me physically ill). And having absolutely NOTHING to do with the pointer between records. I have been doing this since the early 90s. Please save this for your intro to databases class. > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. Hmmm, I guess you need to take up your argument with Microsoft, not me. I open Access and create an autonumber and click a button and MICROSOFT calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I open up SQL Server, and I create a autoincrement and click a button and Microsoft calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I drag and drop this PK between the parent and child and the database engine sets up rules designed to enforce referential integrity. I guess what I am saying is I simply don't give a rat's patuty about academic horsepucky. What I care about is that I have a pointer and I have a unique index on a set of fields which guarantees *data* uniqueness and guess what... The two are not related. and... It works! So I have proven that *my* pointer and *my* data uniqueness are completely and totally unrelated, and *you* are simply arguing that I cannot call it a PK. *Don't care*. *Take it up with Microsoft*. When they stop calling it a PK so will I. I will then call it whatever they call it. In the meantime, we (as a functioning society of database designers) need a common vocabulary. Microsoft is calling my pointer a PK so I pretty much have to or I have to copy your page of horse pucky into every email to explain myself. *not happening* Jim, this happens whenever this subject comes up. Some (typically) oldtimer who went through college back when Codd was a young man and the god of database starts talking in academic terms, tuples and relations and all of that stuff. I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple in my life, it makes no difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. I understand what goes in each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to 3rd normal. I have read many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood (at the time I read it) *some* of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric. If I sound uninterested, or even argumentative, it is simply because I find this whole thing quite easy at the real life level, and I have used (what I was told to call) surrogate PKs since oh... about 1994 and it just works. So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 10:02 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > < > 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record > 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. > > NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE > COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. >>> > > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. In fact it goes to the > very heart of a relational design. When you model data relationally, it is > the logical organization of data and its actual meaning that is being worked > with. The aspect of how that model is physically implemented is not a > consideration at all. > > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Rows are > instances of whatever your modeling and columns are the attributes. The > combination of one or more attributes *must* yield a unique key. If not, > then you don't have a proper relation and must add more attributes. > > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as > a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row > uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. To do the latter, you > need to tack on another index, which represents either the true primary key > for the data, one of the candidates, or a super key. > > However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object > it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. > "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just > applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer > or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go > in and change it at will. > > However if it is assigned to the object it's associated with and turned > into an attribute, then it becomes a surrogate PK. An example of that > would be handing it to a customer and using it as a customer code. Once I > do that, I now cannot go in at will and change it now without informing the > customer. Its been given meaning in a logical context. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From delam at zyterra.com Thu Mar 3 15:04:58 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 15:04:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> This reminds me of a story that may help: A professor in college was not a native English speaker. He took a class when he came to the US as a grad student. Being a class for science majors in English as a second language, physics words figured prominently. The instructor told them the difference between revolving and rotation. Rotation spins on an axis and revolving is moving the whole object around a central point. My professor asked why a revolver was named thus. The instructor (who was English) started muttering about bloody Americans. The moral: it may be proper English, but I will never be understood if I go into a gunshop and ask for a Rotator. Likewise, Jim will never be understood if he insists that an autonuber can never be a PK. Jim, you have met your revolver. Debbie. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 3, 2011, at 1:51 PM, jwcolby wrote: > LOL. You are allowed to do what you are doing but you are not > allowed to *call it* a primary key. > > Jim hasn't told us what we are supposed to call it, nor has he > informed Microsoft that they are not allowed to call it a PK. > Unfortunately (for Jim) Microsoft and pretty much the rest of the > world *does* call it a PK. As far as I can tell, Jim is tilting at > windmills. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/3/2011 2:31 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: >> I agree 100%.You are describing the reasons why record attribute >> should *not* be used as primary keys, IMHO. That is precisely why >> *my* primary keys have no meaning. They are just autonumbers (like >> John's) and I never have any need to change them. If I need a >> "Serial Number" or "Order Number" or any such meaningful value then >> that will be generated by a function that is "aware" of what's >> happening in the real world (like what was the last order number >> issued). >> >> Lambert :-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman >> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:41 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> Lambert, >> >> <> go find all the records in all the tables that use that Autonumber >> value as the foreign key back to the table they are relate to.>> >> >> Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. >> However I could do that at any time. >> >> Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. >> You still could at that point change it, but not without changing >> something else. >> It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. >> >> For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all >> assets. >> New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits >> instead of the current 8. >> >> I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without >> going to every asset and re-labeling it. >> >> Jim. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 15:06:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 13:06:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net> Message-ID: What is the exact problem? I am not experiencing any problems with any of our ADPs using A2010 on W7SP1. I use a lot of ADO calls on my unbound forms. D On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Stuart, > > I missed that. What was the day of the message? Are you saying that an app > will break if it uses ADO and is moved to a Win7 SP1 machine? > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 12:53 PM > To: Tony Septav; Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility with > Win7 SP1? :-) > > If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have a lot > of > extra work to do :-( > > > On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > > > Hey All > > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and > > ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL > > Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in > > Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do > > you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say > > to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user > > to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is > > I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have > > to do some rethinking here? -- AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 15:08:47 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 13:08:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> Message-ID: :) On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Debbie wrote: > This reminds me of a story that may help: > > A professor in college was not a native English speaker. He took a class > when he came to the US as a grad student. Being a class for science majors > in English as a second language, physics words figured prominently. The > instructor told them the difference between revolving and rotation. Rotation > spins on an axis and revolving is moving the whole object around a central > point. > My professor asked why a revolver was named thus. > The instructor (who was English) started muttering about bloody Americans. > > The moral: it may be proper English, but I will never be understood if I go > into a gunshop and ask for a Rotator. > Likewise, Jim will never be understood if he insists that an autonuber can > never be a PK. > > Jim, you have met your revolver. > > Debbie. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 15:14:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:14:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? ROTFL. That would be you. I have a high school education and some hours of community college. Life is strange sometimes. Circumstances didn't align for me getting a degree. My wife has one though, does that count? So, we have established who is the educated one. But I have read the books; I just strictly differentiate between academics and real world. And I have made my living in designing databases since 1994. It has been a good living. And I have made a living learning and writing applications in numerous programming languages. And I read virtually every day to stay abreast of what I need to know to do my job well. So let's just say I know your terms, I understand your terms, and I could care less about your terms. So whip out the "I'm educated" thing on someone else 'cause it doesn't do a thing for me. And by the way you still are not telling us (and Microsoft) what we are supposed to call this ... uh... hm... I don't know what to call it now... you know... the autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. Man that just sounds so... uneducated. ;) Believe me I *do* want to know so that I can avoid the next peeing match. I will try to insert your favorite name for this object in the discussion from here on out. Just an FYI, I really do know and understand normalization. I really do know and understand candidate keys. I really do search for a candidate key to cover with a unique index to enforce data uniqueness. I really do understand multi-field primary keys. I made an ... well... I hesitate to call it... an "educated" decision to *not* use them in favor of the ... here we go again... that autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. You don't know how sad it makes me to know I can no longer tell people I make "educated" decisions. 8( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 3:10 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is > just silly.>> > > That's not the point. > > <> > > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and > the other not; wonder which one that is? > > Jim. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 3 15:23:38 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 07:23:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com>, <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net>, Message-ID: <4D7006DA.9533.26A11DC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Running on Win7 SP1 is not a problem. Compile an application on Win7 SP1 and it may not run on earlier OSs -- Stuart On 3 Mar 2011 at 13:06, David McAfee wrote: > What is the exact problem? > > I am not experiencing any problems with any of our ADPs using A2010 on > W7SP1. > > I use a lot of ADO calls on my unbound forms. > > D > > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Doug Murphy > wrote: > > > Stuart, > > > > I missed that. What was the day of the message? Are you saying that > > an app will break if it uses ADO and is moved to a Win7 SP1 machine? > > > > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 12:53 PM To: Tony Septav; > > Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: > > [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility > > with Win7 SP1? :-) > > > > If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have > > a lot of extra work to do :-( > > > > > > On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > > > > > Hey All > > > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries > > > and ADO connections all working. One question is why would you > > > link to SQL Server tables in Access when you can do everything > > > with ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle > > > subforms and tabs, do you just simply link to SQL Server tables? > > > From my research they say to keep the data simplified on a main > > > form and then allow the user to pick a record and then display a > > > more detailed form. The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and > > > use them where appropriate. Do I have to do some rethinking here? > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 15:43:52 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:43:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Win7Sp1 and ADO In-Reply-To: <4D6D8F84.26700.1CFEF5CB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D6D8F84.26700.1CFEF5CB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D700B98.2090106@colbyconsulting.com> Holy cow! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 7:29 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en- > US/windowsgeneraldevelopmentissues/thread/3a4ce946-effa-4f77-98a6-34f11c6b5a13 From patrinod at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 15:47:58 2011 From: patrinod at gmail.com (Den Patrino) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 16:47:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect Strings Message-ID: Stuart ... Thanks for the replies. I hadn't thought of having to create a DSN on all the pc's that would run the FE application. Using a DSN-less connection in the FE is definitely the way to go. Thanks, Patty Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:59:10 +1000 From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings Message-ID: <4D6EAF9E.15472.21645AAC at stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I always use full DSN-less connection strings for portability of the application. No need to worry about whether the DSN is present on every workstation and it's easy to change in an update to the FE if you need to change your connection ( say been a live and a training BE database). (A very common typo in the interent age, it's DSN (data source name) not DNS ( domain name system) -- Stuart From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 3 16:58:46 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 16:58:46 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How to Prevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS><4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> Message-ID: We are putting together a small Access 2007 Application which will automatically send Emails when orders are received and when orders are shipped. Everything seems to be working nicely in our initial system tests. However, this is new territory for us and we have some concern that our automatically generated Emails will be categorized as spam by the various Emails programs that are used by our customers who will be receiving our Emails. Admittedly, these questions are more "Email" questions than "Access" questions, but I thought that some of you many have run into these issues previously and may be able to point us in the right direction. What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as spam? In the Email header info, I can see the computer name like this... from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com We would like to use an Email "From" address like "Order_Confirmation at AcmeLtd.com. Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam? Again, this is a new area for us. We have tried to find info on the internet, but no relevant articles have been found so far. Thanks in advance for your help, insights, advice. Brad PS. A couple weeks ago, my wife and I visited the Hormel Spam Museum in Austin, Minnesota. One of their many displays is a video of the Monty Python "Spam" skit which some people claim was the origin of the word "spam" (as in unwanted Email). From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Mar 3 17:45:39 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 00:45:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 1. marts 2011 21:23 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Lambert, It needs a unique index, which the Author/Book combination provides. Not sure why the original post got formatted that way, but it should have looked like this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B Which might be clearer. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 01:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 3 18:26:46 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 03:26:46 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> Message-ID: <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 3 18:39:35 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 10:39:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How to Prevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, Message-ID: <4D7034C7.30279.2754844A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> "What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as spam?" Don't use "spammy" Subjects. Don't use ALL CAPITALS. Make sure that there is a plain text part. "Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam?" The internet headers the From: header are two different things. The From: address needs to be a real email address. How are you setting it. On 3 Mar 2011 at 16:58, Brad Marks wrote: > We are putting together a small Access 2007 Application which will > automatically send Emails when orders are received and when orders are > shipped. > > Everything seems to be working nicely in our initial system tests. > > However, this is new territory for us and we have some concern that > our automatically generated Emails will be categorized as spam by the > various Emails programs that are used by our customers who will be > receiving our Emails. > > Admittedly, these questions are more "Email" questions than "Access" > questions, but I thought that some of you many have run into these > issues previously and may be able to point us in the right direction. > > What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as > spam? > > In the Email header info, I can see the computer name like this... > > from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com > > We would like to use an Email "From" address like > "Order_Confirmation at AcmeLtd.com. > > Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to > reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam? > > Again, this is a new area for us. We have tried to find info on the > internet, but no relevant articles have been found so far. > > Thanks in advance for your help, insights, advice. > > Brad > > PS. A couple weeks ago, my wife and I visited the Hormel Spam Museum > in Austin, Minnesota. One of their many displays is a video of the > Monty Python "Spam" skit which some people claim was the origin of the > word "spam" (as in unwanted Email). > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 3 19:09:57 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 19:09:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How toPrevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D7034C7.30279.2754844A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, Thanks for your advice. We are using a third-party Email tool called Febooti. This tool allows us to set the "From" field. >From our tests, I can look at the Email header info. In there I see "from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com" in addition to the normal "From" field. This got me wondering if we perhaps need to rename our "Email Server" so that it is the same as what we are plugging into the "From" field. Maybe I am over-thinking this. The interesting thing is that in some of our tests, the generated Email ended up in the Spam folder for recipients within our office. This really made me wonder how often our customers would have our Emails landing in their Spam folders. Thanks again, Brad PS. Looks like my question on Spam will not raise nearly the excitement that the Primary Key debate has raised :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thu 3/3/2011 6:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How toPrevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam "What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as spam?" Don't use "spammy" Subjects. Don't use ALL CAPITALS. Make sure that there is a plain text part. "Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam?" The internet headers the From: header are two different things. The From: address needs to be a real email address. How are you setting it. On 3 Mar 2011 at 16:58, Brad Marks wrote: > We are putting together a small Access 2007 Application which will > automatically send Emails when orders are received and when orders are > shipped. > > Everything seems to be working nicely in our initial system tests. > > However, this is new territory for us and we have some concern that > our automatically generated Emails will be categorized as spam by the > various Emails programs that are used by our customers who will be > receiving our Emails. > > Admittedly, these questions are more "Email" questions than "Access" > questions, but I thought that some of you many have run into these > issues previously and may be able to point us in the right direction. > > What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as > spam? > > In the Email header info, I can see the computer name like this... > > from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com > > We would like to use an Email "From" address like > "Order_Confirmation at AcmeLtd.com. > > Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to > reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam? > > Again, this is a new area for us. We have tried to find info on the > internet, but no relevant articles have been found so far. > > Thanks in advance for your help, insights, advice. > > Brad > > PS. A couple weeks ago, my wife and I visited the Hormel Spam Museum > in Austin, Minnesota. One of their many displays is a video of the > Monty Python "Spam" skit which some people claim was the origin of the > word "spam" (as in unwanted Email). > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From michael at mattysconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 20:22:55 2011 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 21:22:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? Can we get back to the debate, please? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? ROTFL. That would be you. I have a high school education and some hours of community college. Life is strange sometimes. Circumstances didn't align for me getting a degree. My wife has one though, does that count? So, we have established who is the educated one. But I have read the books; I just strictly differentiate between academics and real world. And I have made my living in designing databases since 1994. It has been a good living. And I have made a living learning and writing applications in numerous programming languages. And I read virtually every day to stay abreast of what I need to know to do my job well. So let's just say I know your terms, I understand your terms, and I could care less about your terms. So whip out the "I'm educated" thing on someone else 'cause it doesn't do a thing for me. And by the way you still are not telling us (and Microsoft) what we are supposed to call this ... uh... hm... I don't know what to call it now... you know... the autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. Man that just sounds so... uneducated. ;) Believe me I *do* want to know so that I can avoid the next peeing match. I will try to insert your favorite name for this object in the discussion from here on out. Just an FYI, I really do know and understand normalization. I really do know and understand candidate keys. I really do search for a candidate key to cover with a unique index to enforce data uniqueness. I really do understand multi-field primary keys. I made an ... well... I hesitate to call it... an "educated" decision to *not* use them in favor of the ... here we go again... that autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. You don't know how sad it makes me to know I can no longer tell people I make "educated" decisions. 8( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 3:10 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is > just silly.>> > > That's not the point. > > <> > > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is > educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 20:44:27 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 21:44:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> Message-ID: <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> AFAICT there is no debate other than what to call the auto-increment pointer thingy. As soon as we stop calling it a PK Jim seems to be happy. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 9:22 PM, Michael Mattys wrote: > > Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? > I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? > > Can we get back to the debate, please? > > Michael R Mattys > Business Process Developers > www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 21:45:18 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 22:45:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] In Pictures: 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - Forbes.com Message-ID: <4D70604E.9060805@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://www.forbes.com/2011/02/23/dumbest-warning-labels-entrepreneurs-sales-marketing-warning-labels_slide.html From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 3 21:46:35 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 13:46:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway>, <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D70609B.25766.27FFBBC2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If you chose to use an auto-increment pointer thingy as the primary key for relationship purposes, then by definition - it is a PK. If Jim choses to use one real world value or a composite collection of them as the primary key for relationship purposes, then that too is a PK. The PK is whatever *you* chose as the "primary" way to uniquely identify records. The choice between the two ways of doing so comes down to a personal decision by the designer. Neither way is "correct" or "the only way". All I know is that in my experience, I've seen complications/problems caused by using natural keys as the PK, I've never had a problem with an autonumber so that's what I chose to use. -- Stuart On 3 Mar 2011 at 21:44, jwcolby wrote: > AFAICT there is no debate other than what to call the auto-increment > pointer thingy. As soon as we stop calling it a PK Jim seems to be > happy. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/3/2011 9:22 PM, Michael Mattys wrote: > > > > Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? > > I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? > > > > Can we get back to the debate, please? > > > > Michael R Mattys > > Business Process Developers > > www.mattysconsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 4 04:05:02 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 13:05:02 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D70609B.25766.27FFBBC2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway>, <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> <4D70609B.25766.27FFBBC2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart -- <<< I've never had a problem with an autonumber >>> "There is no free cheese in this world" you know :) - replication could create subtle collision issues when autonumbers used - and that would be another kind of collision from the one which could "arise its ugly head" when natural PKs are used; - memory overhead is another issue as Jim noted ("consistent data modelers" do neglect it); - ... Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 6:47 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server If you chose to use an auto-increment pointer thingy as the primary key for relationship purposes, then by definition - it is a PK. If Jim choses to use one real world value or a composite collection of them as the primary key for relationship purposes, then that too is a PK. The PK is whatever *you* chose as the "primary" way to uniquely identify records. The choice between the two ways of doing so comes down to a personal decision by the designer. Neither way is "correct" or "the only way". All I know is that in my experience, I've seen complications/problems caused by using natural keys as the PK, I've never had a problem with an autonumber so that's what I chose to use. -- Stuart On 3 Mar 2011 at 21:44, jwcolby wrote: > AFAICT there is no debate other than what to call the auto-increment > pointer thingy. As soon as we stop calling it a PK Jim seems to be > happy. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/3/2011 9:22 PM, Michael Mattys wrote: > > > > Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? > > I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? > > > > Can we get back to the debate, please? > > > > Michael R Mattys > > Business Process Developers > > www.mattysconsulting.com > -- From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Mar 4 06:30:10 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 04:30:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: <4D70DB52.7030306@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All Come on now. PK this and PK that, very very interesting discussion. In my younger years I got a job with Fish and Wildlife. I would be doing field work for a branch office about 100 miles from where I lived. I was told when I get there the CO would meet me and describe the area I would be working in. Now coming from a military background CO meant the Commanding Officer. As a young sprout all the way driving up there I was thinking "Hey Zeus first day on the job and I am going to be meeting with the Commanding Officer, very cool." Turned out when I got there that CO meant Conservation Officer (wildlife cop). Sorry just trying to lighten things up, true story though. From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 07:53:04 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 07:53:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: In Pictures: 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - Forbes.com Message-ID: <001201cbda73$7cc26540$76472fc0$@comcast.net> These seem dumb, but the companies know that. The labels are there because there is some government requirement, or because someone tried to do that, got hurt, and sued (like blow drying your hair while asleep?). I agree with the deer crossing signs - lots of deer where I live and drivers need to know (1 dead deer = 1 totaled car). But we also need car crossing signs so the deer know to be careful too. LOL! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] In Pictures: 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - Forbes.com -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://www.forbes.com/2011/02/23/dumbest-warning-labels-entrepreneurs-sales- marketing-warning-labels_slide.html -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 4 08:09:02 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 15:09:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Asger et al So true. Had to maintain a system with up to five-field compound PKs. Terrible. /gustav >>> ab-mi at post3.tele.dk 04-03-2011 00:45 >>> Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 4 08:10:08 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 15:10:08 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Shamil et al This is where GUIDs come in. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 04-03-2011 11:05 >>> Hi Stuart -- <<< I've never had a problem with an autonumber >>> "There is no free cheese in this world" you know :) - replication could create subtle collision issues when autonumbers used - and that would be another kind of collision from the one which could "arise its ugly head" when natural PKs are used; - memory overhead is another issue as Jim noted ("consistent data modelers" do neglect it); - ... Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Thank you. -- Shamil From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 4 08:20:53 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 17:20:53 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- I meant Alternative (Natural) Keys Collisions with PKs ((Random) Autonumbers or GUIDs) having different values. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 17:10 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Shamil et al This is where GUIDs come in. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 04-03-2011 11:05 >>> Hi Stuart -- <<< I've never had a problem with an autonumber >>> "There is no free cheese in this world" you know :) - replication could create subtle collision issues when autonumbers used - and that would be another kind of collision from the one which could "arise its ugly head" when natural PKs are used; - memory overhead is another issue as Jim noted ("consistent data modelers" do neglect it); - ... Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Thank you. -- Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 11:43:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 12:43:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: NUMA memory, dual sockets and memory usage Message-ID: <4D7124D4.9000903@colbyconsulting.com> I built a server with dual cpu sockets but I only populated one side and put all of the memory in that side (8) 4 gig dimms. If I were to put another process in the other socket, what would happen in the case where only a single core in one chip needed as much memory as possible. I assume that it could access the memory on the other socket through the CPU on that socket? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 11:44:41 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 12:44:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... Message-ID: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the other day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just could not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a control, get it set up the way you want - font, font size, back color etc - and then format / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they purchased 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know anything before I go upgrade them. AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any other caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 12:05:33 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 12:05:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... In-Reply-To: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> I don't think that labels have a default property - text boxes do. For a text box, the default value in in properties, under Data. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the other day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just could not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a control, get it set up the way you want - font, font size, back color etc - and then format / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they purchased 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know anything before I go upgrade them. AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any other caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 12:47:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 13:47:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... In-Reply-To: <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> No that is not what I am taking about. Not default property, default *settings*. It is a format thing. when you set up a form you can say "when I drag a control (in this case a label) out onto the form I want it to look like this..." In 2003 open a form in design view. select a label in the menu, select format / set control defaults THAT is what I am trying to find in Access 2007. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/4/2011 1:05 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > I don't think that labels have a default property - text boxes do. For a > text box, the default value in in properties, under Data. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... > > LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the other > day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. > > I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just could > not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a control, get it > set up the way you want - font, font size, back color etc - and then format > / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. > > Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? > > Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they purchased > 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know > anything before I go upgrade them. > > AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. > Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any other > caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 14:06:57 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:06:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... In-Reply-To: <4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> <4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> I found this: http://allenbrowne.com/ser-43.html And - after 13 years of programming access, I did not know about this feature. OMG - What else don't I know?!? Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 12:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... No that is not what I am taking about. Not default property, default *settings*. It is a format thing. when you set up a form you can say "when I drag a control (in this case a label) out onto the form I want it to look like this..." In 2003 open a form in design view. select a label in the menu, select format / set control defaults THAT is what I am trying to find in Access 2007. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/4/2011 1:05 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > I don't think that labels have a default property - text boxes do. > For a text box, the default value in in properties, under Data. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... > > LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the > other day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. > > I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just > could not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a > control, get it set up the way you want - font, font size, back color > etc - and then format / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. > > Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? > > Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they > purchased > 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know > anything before I go upgrade them. > > AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. > Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any > other caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Fri Mar 4 14:55:59 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:55:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> Message-ID: We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 15:16:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 16:16:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Finding the Set Control Defaults - Office Watch Message-ID: <4D715695.6080806@colbyconsulting.com> Here it is! http://news.office-watch.com/t/n.aspx?articleid=987&zoneid=30 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Fri Mar 4 16:10:36 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 23:10:36 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> Message-ID: <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Hi Shamil In another posting you wrote: > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. >From a logical design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 4 16:31:06 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 01:31:06 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc><394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Message-ID: Hi Asger -- <<< So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? >>> I do not care how to call a surrogate key - a "physical PK" is OK with me. :) As I noted I do care more on "consistent data modeling" when all and every table gets surrogate PK - as you and John do - I do the same, and I did have to get and to fix legacy data models "nightmares" with five levels hierarchies of natural keys propagating from upper to the lower level of that hierarchy... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 1:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Shamil In another posting you wrote: > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. >From a logical design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 4 16:43:09 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 08:43:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Message-ID: <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need to differentiate according to what the key is based on. -- Stuart On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > Hi Shamil > > In another posting you wrote: > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design point > of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from > a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate > auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the > surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the > combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? > > Asger > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Hi Asger -- > > <<< > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which > *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is > what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to > all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure > relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond > Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Jim, > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so > far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of > using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK > key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I > use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead > compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what > happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the > story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you > only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a > natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many > columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much > bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will > create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even > more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then > chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one > imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one > column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking > table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. > > Asger > > <<< snip >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 16:47:47 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:47:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I love developers that use SSN and/or email addresses as PKs. Those never change, or are never faked. From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Fri Mar 4 18:52:01 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 01:52:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need to differentiate according to what the key is based on. -- Stuart On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > Hi Shamil > > In another posting you wrote: > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design point > of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from > a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate > auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the > surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the > combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? > > Asger > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Hi Asger -- > > <<< > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which > *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is > what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to > all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure > relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond > Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Jim, > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so > far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of > using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK > key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I > use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead > compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what > happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the > story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you > only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a > natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many > columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much > bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will > create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even > more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then > chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one > imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one > column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking > table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. > > Asger > > <<< snip >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 4 19:09:01 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 11:09:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Message-ID: <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies > each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate > unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in > every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just > add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural > column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical > PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My > point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a > logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of > more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each > record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But > that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual > ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be > prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the > actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have > learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If > the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products > table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate > ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two > quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: > ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate > ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer > don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK > and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the > natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical > sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key > for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need > to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > -- > Stuart > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Hi Shamil > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design > > point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. > > But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a > > surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) > > calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key > > points to the combined natural key which then should be named a > > "logical PK"? > > > > Asger > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > <<< > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for > > pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Jim, > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting > > so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead > > of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate > > PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if > > I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an > > overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. > > But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? > > Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main > > table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - > > using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as > > many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a > > much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally > > will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table > > then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each > > one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with > > one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a > > linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child > > tables. > > > > Asger > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Fri Mar 4 19:28:02 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 02:28:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <552C7783AC164A33A0B0B9BEB6827192@abpc> Stuart, Worried, are you feeling well? Don't understand a word of your mumble. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan Sendt: 5. marts 2011 02:09 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies > each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate > unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in > every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just > add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural > column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical > PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My > point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a > logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of > more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each > record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But > that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual > ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be > prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the > actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have > learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If > the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products > table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate > ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two > quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: > ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate > ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer > don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK > and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the > natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical > sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key > for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need > to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > -- > Stuart > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Hi Shamil > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design > > point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. > > But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a > > surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) > > calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key > > points to the combined natural key which then should be named a > > "logical PK"? > > > > Asger > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > <<< > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for > > pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Jim, > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting > > so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead > > of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate > > PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if > > I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an > > overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. > > But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? > > Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main > > table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - > > using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as > > many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a > > much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally > > will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table > > then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each > > one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with > > one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a > > linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child > > tables. > > > > Asger > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 4 20:04:39 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 12:04:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Abbreviations and the Great Debate was (Access and SQL Server) In-Reply-To: <552C7783AC164A33A0B0B9BEB6827192@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <552C7783AC164A33A0B0B9BEB6827192@abpc> Message-ID: <4D719A37.15730.2CC8C3C6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You'll notice that I have changed the subject! D,RFC = Ducking, Running For Cover! I knew as soon as I saw the first posting that it would end up as another round of the great surrogate/natural PK debate that somehow comes up every year or so on the list with no- one's opinions being changed. I really didn't want to get dragged into it again -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 2:28, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart, > Worried, are you feeling well? Don't understand a word of your mumble. > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 5. marts 2011 02:09 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > B*gger, > > I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this > debate after all. > > I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was > the very succint > > > D,RFC :-) > > > And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! > > -- > Stuart > > > On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Stuart (and Shamil) > > > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > > words... > > > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely > > identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a > > surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be > > present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you > > can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't > > have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are > > unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table > > won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking > > about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one > > or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely > > identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always > > need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as > > the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it > > may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make > > this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with > > customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use > > surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the > > primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use > > an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this > > would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is > > actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design > > language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design > > language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for > > choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is > > wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a > > PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > > > Asger > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) > > key for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no > > need to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > > > Hi Shamil > > > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? > > > > Anybody? > > > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear > > > up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical > > > design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms > > > the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be > > > implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be > > > happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", > > > admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which > > > then should be named a "logical PK"? > > > > > > Asger > > > > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > > Server > > > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > > > <<< > > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK > > > for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are > > > many... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > > > Jim, > > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole > > > posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the > > > overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of > > > just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that > > > using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique > > > index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural > > > columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So > > > in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a > > > natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I > > > think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that > > > the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the > > > composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to > > > create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite > > > different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a > > > FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural > > > composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns > > > as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much > > > bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will > > > create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child > > > table then chances are that you might need two or more child > > > tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a > > > surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate > > > PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem > > > to need child tables. > > > > > > Asger > > > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 21:16:46 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 22:16:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Message-ID: <4D71AB1E.4020006@colbyconsulting.com> And didn't I say exactly that at the very beginning of this thread? Anyone who lets the customer dictate the actual design of the database needs to be in a different business. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/4/2011 7:52 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. > When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. > > Asger From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat Mar 5 05:37:22 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 14:37:22 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc><4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Message-ID: <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> Hi Asger -- <<< When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. >>> Let me note that in the case of unique rows "maximal (length) logical PK" would be combination of all columns' values of a row. I suppose I'm in your and JC's camp - let me be in? :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 3:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger <<< snip >> From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat Mar 5 08:30:20 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 15:30:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc><4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> Message-ID: Hi Shamil Exactly - and you are welcome :-) Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 5. marts 2011 12:37 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. >>> Let me note that in the case of unique rows "maximal (length) logical PK" would be combination of all columns' values of a row. I suppose I'm in your and JC's camp - let me be in? :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 3:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Mar 5 10:24:19 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 10:24:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times In-Reply-To: References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000c01cbdb51$c85c30b0$59149210$@comcast.net> Hi Brad, My systems I do something similar to allow/disallow actions based on a user's job role, or if they are an administrator, or the developer (me). All of the data for these settings is stored in the BE database file in a variety of tables - but they could also be installed in a separate BE file just as well. I think your approach is sound. And I'm assuming that you have a client/system configuration (several FE's on client PC's with the data stored in one or more BE data files on a server). If your system typically takes only 1/2 second to set the tabs, but sometimes it takes 15 seconds, I'd have to say the first thing to look at is a network connection that is causing the delay. So you'll need to enlist your IT folks for some help. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sat Mar 5 11:47:01 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 11:47:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> <000c01cbdb51$c85c30b0$59149210$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Dan, Thanks for your insights. I will discuss this issue some more with our network folks. I know that I can eliminate the occasional slowness by using a local table or "hard coding" the permissions. These approaches will make it more difficult to retain the control of the information in the hands of the application administrator, however. I have given some thought to reading the control file and using it to generate VBA code. This would, however, require a two-step approach (1) administrator changes the data (2) Access developer uses the data to generate new VBA code and then moves this new code from TEST to PROD. This is not ideal, but it may be better than the occasional slowness if we cannot find the root cause. Thanks again, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Dan Waters Sent: Sat 3/5/2011 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times Hi Brad, My systems I do something similar to allow/disallow actions based on a user's job role, or if they are an administrator, or the developer (me). All of the data for these settings is stored in the BE database file in a variety of tables - but they could also be installed in a separate BE file just as well. I think your approach is sound. And I'm assuming that you have a client/system configuration (several FE's on client PC's with the data stored in one or more BE data files on a server). If your system typically takes only 1/2 second to set the tabs, but sometimes it takes 15 seconds, I'd have to say the first thing to look at is a network connection that is causing the delay. So you'll need to enlist your IT folks for some help. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Sat Mar 5 15:44:36 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:44:36 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times In-Reply-To: References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net><000c01cbdb51$c85c30b0$59149210$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <77784D707F5948E68BA95B97666C5210@stevelaptop> Hi Brad, One thing you could consider is reading those data from the external control tables at the time when the application is started up. Since you are using Access 2007, it may be applicable to use TempVars. Alternatively, copy the data into local tables, and then have your procedures relate to the local copies of the data rather than to the external control tables themselves. That way, if there is any slowness, it will be at startup, rather than during production usage time, and therefore not so disruptive. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Brad Marks Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 6:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times Dan, Thanks for your insights. I will discuss this issue some more with our network folks. I know that I can eliminate the occasional slowness by using a local table or "hard coding" the permissions. These approaches will make it more difficult to retain the control of the information in the hands of the application administrator, however. I have given some thought to reading the control file and using it to generate VBA code. This would, however, require a two-step approach (1) administrator changes the data (2) Access developer uses the data to generate new VBA code and then moves this new code from TEST to PROD. This is not ideal, but it may be better than the occasional slowness if we cannot find the root cause. Thanks again, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Dan Waters Sent: Sat 3/5/2011 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times Hi Brad, My systems I do something similar to allow/disallow actions based on a user's job role, or if they are an administrator, or the developer (me). All of the data for these settings is stored in the BE database file in a variety of tables - but they could also be installed in a separate BE file just as well. I think your approach is sound. And I'm assuming that you have a client/system configuration (several FE's on client PC's with the data stored in one or more BE data files on a server). If your system typically takes only 1/2 second to set the tabs, but sometimes it takes 15 seconds, I'd have to say the first thing to look at is a network connection that is causing the delay. So you'll need to enlist your IT folks for some help. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:29:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:29:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> Message-ID: Asger, Sorry about being MIA on this, but I had some major systems work to perform at an out of town client this past weekend, so time was very limited Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. <> That's the point where you'd tack on an auto number, but I don't agree with a design where you do that up front just for the sake of consistency. Even with the extended/non-simple linking table that Stuart brought up (which I don't think of as a linking table even though he was correct in that it really is one), I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 06:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 1. marts 2011 21:23 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Lambert, It needs a unique index, which the Author/Book combination provides. Not sure why the original post got formatted that way, but it should have looked like this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B Which might be clearer. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 01:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:46:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:46:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc><394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Message-ID: <3C802977CDBA410D86845C4A1969E5CC@XPS> Shamil, Consider though that the only reason it is a nightmare is the issue of performance. If that didn't exist as an issue, would there be any problem with using natural primary keys or surrogates (not a meaningless key). My answer to that would be no. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 05:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? >>> I do not care how to call a surrogate key - a "physical PK" is OK with me. :) As I noted I do care more on "consistent data modeling" when all and every table gets surrogate PK - as you and John do - I do the same, and I did have to get and to fix legacy data models "nightmares" with five levels hierarchies of natural keys propagating from upper to the lower level of that hierarchy... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 1:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Shamil In another posting you wrote: > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. >From a logical design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:46:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:46:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> Message-ID: <> I think that point was lost on John...I wasn't talking about education only in terms of schooling. As for the "debate" I really don't think there is much of one. My point that we all use primary keys in our applications despite the fact that we all use auto numbers for physical keys is correct. Whether its by having additional indexes or simply arranging our user interfaces in specific ways to present data, primary keys are used. By being cognizant of the differences between what a true primary key is and something that is labeled as such in table design even though it is not lets you build better apps. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 09:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? Can we get back to the debate, please? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? ROTFL. That would be you. I have a high school education and some hours of community college. Life is strange sometimes. Circumstances didn't align for me getting a degree. My wife has one though, does that count? So, we have established who is the educated one. But I have read the books; I just strictly differentiate between academics and real world. And I have made my living in designing databases since 1994. It has been a good living. And I have made a living learning and writing applications in numerous programming languages. And I read virtually every day to stay abreast of what I need to know to do my job well. So let's just say I know your terms, I understand your terms, and I could care less about your terms. So whip out the "I'm educated" thing on someone else 'cause it doesn't do a thing for me. And by the way you still are not telling us (and Microsoft) what we are supposed to call this ... uh... hm... I don't know what to call it now... you know... the autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. Man that just sounds so... uneducated. ;) Believe me I *do* want to know so that I can avoid the next peeing match. I will try to insert your favorite name for this object in the discussion from here on out. Just an FYI, I really do know and understand normalization. I really do know and understand candidate keys. I really do search for a candidate key to cover with a unique index to enforce data uniqueness. I really do understand multi-field primary keys. I made an ... well... I hesitate to call it... an "educated" decision to *not* use them in favor of the ... here we go again... that autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. You don't know how sad it makes me to know I can no longer tell people I make "educated" decisions. 8( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 3:10 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is > just silly.>> > > That's not the point. > > <> > > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is > educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:52:25 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:52:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc><4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> Message-ID: <8CB99E61901E491BB33FCEFC7C03EF2D@XPS> Shamil, <> Yes, that would be what is referred to as a "supper key"; any combination of one or more attributes that can form a unique combination is a super key. Out of that group comes the candidates and then out of that group, one is chosen as a primary key. That candidate being the one which is as minimal as possible, as familiar as possible, and as stable as possible. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 06:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. >>> Let me note that in the case of unique rows "maximal (length) logical PK" would be combination of all columns' values of a row. I suppose I'm in your and JC's camp - let me be in? :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 3:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:52:25 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:52:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <18947638A2BF4F5CAC4AC9119ADA12E6@XPS> Stuart, Ah come on, it's been a little too quiet around here for too long... Seems we cover more off-topic things then anything else around here lately. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 08:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies > each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate > unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in > every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just > add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural > column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical > PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My > point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a > logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of > more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each > record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But > that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual > ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be > prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the > actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have > learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If > the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products > table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate > ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two > quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: > ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate > ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer > don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK > and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the > natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical > sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key > for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need > to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > -- > Stuart > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Hi Shamil > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design > > point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. > > But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a > > surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) > > calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key > > points to the combined natural key which then should be named a > > "logical PK"? > > > > Asger > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > <<< > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for > > pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Jim, > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting > > so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead > > of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate > > PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if > > I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an > > overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. > > But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? > > Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main > > table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - > > using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as > > many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a > > much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally > > will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table > > then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each > > one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with > > one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a > > linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child > > tables. > > > > Asger > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 7 09:18:06 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 16:18:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 09:22:18 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 10:22:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gustav, Well you may shoot yourself in the foot at times with that approach. In the book/author linking table example I gave, what if you had millions of rows? Your going to maintain an extra index on the auto number key simply because you want one when the book ID/Author ID works fine as a key and you need a index on it anyway? Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:18 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Mar 7 10:12:41 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:12:41 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Jim and All -- <<< No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. >>> Yes. As for performance issues for millions of rows as you Jim noted - some very small performance loss on inserting a row can be neglected. Jim, let me suppose this my answer will be also an answer on two your other today's postings here addressed to me? 2All: for the case of surrogate PK and a natural (compound) alternate key - which one will you make based on a clustered index and which one - based on non-clustered and why? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 7 ????? 2011 ?. 18:18 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Mar 7 10:15:24 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:15:24 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <18947638A2BF4F5CAC4AC9119ADA12E6@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc><4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <18947638A2BF4F5CAC4AC9119ADA12E6@XPS> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- <<< Ah come on, it's been a little too quiet around here for too long... >>> Yes! :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 7 ????? 2011 ?. 17:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart, Ah come on, it's been a little too quiet around here for too long... Seems we cover more off-topic things then anything else around here lately. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 08:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart <<< snip >>> From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 7 10:58:12 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:58:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Jim I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a an autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for updates of other fields, and tables that large typically are for appending/reading only. But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where possible. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 16:22 >>> Gustav, Well you may shoot yourself in the foot at times with that approach. In the book/author linking table example I gave, what if you had millions of rows? Your going to maintain an extra index on the auto number key simply because you want one when the book ID/Author ID works fine as a key and you need a index on it anyway? Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:18 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 18:00:04 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:00:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Let us distinguish two problems: The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an arbitrary-numbered case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid which eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level of detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and potentially life-saving. The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or windshield or manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike the aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift and a line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which attributes we choose to model. IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number problem, but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, this latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my piece at Red Gate's site). Arthur On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim > > I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a an > autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for updates of > other fields, and tables that large typically are for appending/reading > only. > > But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where possible. > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 16:22 >>> > Gustav, > > Well you may shoot yourself in the foot at times with that approach. > > In the book/author linking table example I gave, what if you had millions > of rows? Your going to maintain an extra index on the auto number key > simply because you want one when the book ID/Author ID works fine as a key > and you need a index on it anyway? > > Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:18 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Hi Jim > > In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily > even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. > Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, > same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. > > I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable > compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber > Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It > makes > life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a > lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> > > I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK > some where. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 8 05:42:02 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 12:42:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] PITA and temporal database (was: Access and SQL Server) Message-ID: Hi Arthur This is what you brought up 4? years ago: --- >>> artful at rogers.com 2006-11-22 13:14:50 >>> There is a whole other subject on this, about which I have written, but I googled it and it didn't come up, so perhaps I wrote it and forgot to sell it to somebody. The gist is this: it's called PITA, which doesn't mean pain in the arse, but rather Point In Time Architecture. Without PITA, the central problem with relational databases is that they don't provide an instant "roll back to August 1" capability. With PITA, they do. It's not all that complicated, but it does require a detailed walk-through so you can understand all the implications, the most critical of which is, "Nothing is ever updated. An updated row is actually replaced, and the updated row's EndDate column is updated to reflect the datetime on which the row was "changed". Thus it becomes possible to issue a query that reflects the state of the database on August 1, 2005. Obviously this increases the size of the db significantly, but in certain environments (such as medical), this is critical -- who was JWC's physician on that date, and what tests were performed, and by which medicos, and so on. So. Today's job is to dig out that PITA article and pitch it to somebody. --- Somehow you must have succeeded because your writing can found here, dated 2007-02-22: http://www.simple-talk.com/sql/database-administration/database-design-a-point-in-time-architecture/ As I wrote back also on 2006-11-22, what you describe is a temporal database or - more precise - a bitemporal: In the literature, two time lines of interest have been mentioned, transaction time and valid time. The valid time line represents when a fact is valid in modelled world (i.e. when it was believed) and the transaction time line represents when a transaction was performed. A bitemporal database is a combination of valid time and transaction time databases where these two time lines are considered to be orthogonal. (Snodgrass & Ahn 1986) This is a fascinating area, and your article describes nicely how - using SQL Server - to deal with some of the issues for a practical implementation of this theory (from 1986). However, I miss the connection to your eggs. To me, the collection of eggs describes rather a batch: A given population of 200 hens produce each day a collected batch of eggs which perhaps are stamped with a producer id and batch id but at least packed with other eggs from the same batch only. The batch id is written on the package. This way a bad egg at the consumer can be tracked back to the package, the producer, the date, the packing machine, the population of hens, and - perhaps - the possible bags of corn (or whatever) used to feed these hens. You will record all associated data in a write-once/read-many database, but as you by definition never will change or correct these data, I see no scenario for a temporal or PITA database, it's more like a log file. The only date field needed here is the packing date. And how about the autonumber and the index maintenance Jim brought up? /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 08-03-2011 01:00 >>> Let us distinguish two problems: The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an arbitrary-numbered case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid which eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level of detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and potentially life-saving. The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or windshield or manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike the aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift and a line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which attributes we choose to model. IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number problem, but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, this latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my piece at Red Gate's site). Arthur On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim > > I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a an > autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for updates of > other fields, and tables that large typically are for appending/reading > only. > > But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where possible. > > /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 8 08:49:43 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 09:49:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] PITA and temporal database (was: Access and SQL Server) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D764207.7060906@colbyconsulting.com> While this is a nice idea, and perhaps critical somewhere, I cannot see it being usable in most environments. I have a claim table with 50 or 100 fields and I am going to store all of that again because a single date in one field is changed? In an ideal world without real world constraints, go for it. However we are replacing natural keys with surrogates because of issues with storing just a handful of fields "over again" and the negative impacts on speed and storage requirements that natural keys bring. If I were going to do a temporal kind of db I would go with a "normalized" solution where I stored just the PKID of the record changing, name of the field (or ID of the field) the "old" field data, and the change time. Then you end up with a "change log" concept. All of which demands intense analysis to determine where the change log becomes less efficient than storing the whole record. One way or the other (in my experience), very few clients are willing to pay for this kind of thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/8/2011 6:42 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > This is what you brought up 4? years ago: > > --- >>>> artful at rogers.com 2006-11-22 13:14:50>>> > > There is a whole other subject on this, about which I have written, but > I googled it and it didn't come up, so perhaps I wrote it and forgot to > sell it to somebody. The gist is this: it's called PITA, which doesn't > mean pain in the arse, but rather Point In Time Architecture. Without > PITA, the central problem with relational databases is that they don't > provide an instant "roll back to August 1" capability. With PITA, they > do. It's not all that complicated, but it does require a detailed > walk-through so you can understand all the implications, the most > critical of which is, "Nothing is ever updated. An updated row is > actually replaced, and the updated row's EndDate column is updated to > reflect the datetime on which the row was "changed". Thus it becomes > possible to issue a query that reflects the state of the database on > August 1, 2005. Obviously this increases the size of the db > significantly, but in certain environments (such as medical), this is > critical -- who was JWC's physician on that date, and what tests were > performed, and by which medicos, and so on. > > So. Today's job is to dig out that PITA article and pitch it to > somebody. > --- > > Somehow you must have succeeded because your writing can found here, > dated 2007-02-22: > > http://www.simple-talk.com/sql/database-administration/database-design-a-point-in-time-architecture/ > > As I wrote back also on 2006-11-22, what you describe is a temporal > database or - more precise - a bitemporal: > > > In the literature, two time lines of interest have been mentioned, > transaction time and valid time. The valid time line represents when a > fact is valid in modelled world (i.e. when it was believed) and the > transaction time line represents when a transaction was performed. A > bitemporal database is a combination of valid time and transaction time > databases where these two time lines are considered to be orthogonal. > (Snodgrass& Ahn 1986) > > > This is a fascinating area, and your article describes nicely how - > using SQL Server - to deal with some of the issues for a practical > implementation of this theory (from 1986). > > However, I miss the connection to your eggs. > > To me, the collection of eggs describes rather a batch: A given > population of 200 hens produce each day a collected batch of eggs which > perhaps are stamped with a producer id and batch id but at least packed > with other eggs from the same batch only. The batch id is written on the > package. > This way a bad egg at the consumer can be tracked back to the package, > the producer, the date, the packing machine, the population of hens, and > - perhaps - the possible bags of corn (or whatever) used to feed these > hens. > You will record all associated data in a write-once/read-many database, > but as you by definition never will change or correct these data, I see > no scenario for a temporal or PITA database, it's more like a log file. > The only date field needed here is the packing date. > > And how about the autonumber and the index maintenance Jim brought up? > > /gustav > > >>>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 08-03-2011 01:00>>> > Let us distinguish two problems: > > The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays > several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an > arbitrary-numbered > case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid > which > eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level > of > detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and > potentially > life-saving. > > The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or > windshield or > manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike > the > aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift > and a > line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. > > Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which > attributes we > choose to model. > > IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number > problem, > but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, > this > latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time > Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my > piece at > Red Gate's site). > > Arthur > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Gustav Brock > wrote: > >> Hi Jim >> >> I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a > an >> autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for > updates of >> other fields, and tables that large typically are for > appending/reading >> only. >> >> But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where > possible. >> >> /gustav From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 8 09:53:48 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 16:53:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] PITA and temporal database (was: Access and SQL Server) Message-ID: Hi John It is even worse - if you consider referential integrity. If so, you have to record the object itself as the first and then, in separate table(s), any attribute that may change over time. Thus, for example for a customer table, as everything can change except the registration number (VAT or whatever), your main table may end up containing only this and the Id, while the name of the company, address, and phone number, etc. must be kept in one or more child tables. However, it may not turn out that labourious. Think about it: How often do you need all info of a customer? But you are right. Even though this is an extremely powerful storing method, the client still has to pay. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 08-03-2011 15:49 >>> While this is a nice idea, and perhaps critical somewhere, I cannot see it being usable in most environments. I have a claim table with 50 or 100 fields and I am going to store all of that again because a single date in one field is changed? In an ideal world without real world constraints, go for it. However we are replacing natural keys with surrogates because of issues with storing just a handful of fields "over again" and the negative impacts on speed and storage requirements that natural keys bring. If I were going to do a temporal kind of db I would go with a "normalized" solution where I stored just the PKID of the record changing, name of the field (or ID of the field) the "old" field data, and the change time. Then you end up with a "change log" concept. All of which demands intense analysis to determine where the change log becomes less efficient than storing the whole record. One way or the other (in my experience), very few clients are willing to pay for this kind of thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/8/2011 6:42 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > This is what you brought up 4? years ago: > > --- >>>> artful at rogers.com 2006-11-22 13:14:50>>> > > There is a whole other subject on this, about which I have written, but > I googled it and it didn't come up, so perhaps I wrote it and forgot to > sell it to somebody. The gist is this: it's called PITA, which doesn't > mean pain in the arse, but rather Point In Time Architecture. Without > PITA, the central problem with relational databases is that they don't > provide an instant "roll back to August 1" capability. With PITA, they > do. It's not all that complicated, but it does require a detailed > walk-through so you can understand all the implications, the most > critical of which is, "Nothing is ever updated. An updated row is > actually replaced, and the updated row's EndDate column is updated to > reflect the datetime on which the row was "changed". Thus it becomes > possible to issue a query that reflects the state of the database on > August 1, 2005. Obviously this increases the size of the db > significantly, but in certain environments (such as medical), this is > critical -- who was JWC's physician on that date, and what tests were > performed, and by which medicos, and so on. > > So. Today's job is to dig out that PITA article and pitch it to > somebody. > --- > > Somehow you must have succeeded because your writing can found here, > dated 2007-02-22: > > http://www.simple-talk.com/sql/database-administration/database-design-a-point-in-time-architecture/ > > As I wrote back also on 2006-11-22, what you describe is a temporal > database or - more precise - a bitemporal: > > > In the literature, two time lines of interest have been mentioned, > transaction time and valid time. The valid time line represents when a > fact is valid in modelled world (i.e. when it was believed) and the > transaction time line represents when a transaction was performed. A > bitemporal database is a combination of valid time and transaction time > databases where these two time lines are considered to be orthogonal. > (Snodgrass& Ahn 1986) > > > This is a fascinating area, and your article describes nicely how - > using SQL Server - to deal with some of the issues for a practical > implementation of this theory (from 1986). > > However, I miss the connection to your eggs. > > To me, the collection of eggs describes rather a batch: A given > population of 200 hens produce each day a collected batch of eggs which > perhaps are stamped with a producer id and batch id but at least packed > with other eggs from the same batch only. The batch id is written on the > package. > This way a bad egg at the consumer can be tracked back to the package, > the producer, the date, the packing machine, the population of hens, and > - perhaps - the possible bags of corn (or whatever) used to feed these > hens. > You will record all associated data in a write-once/read-many database, > but as you by definition never will change or correct these data, I see > no scenario for a temporal or PITA database, it's more like a log file. > The only date field needed here is the packing date. > > And how about the autonumber and the index maintenance Jim brought up? > > /gustav > > >>>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 08-03-2011 01:00>>> > Let us distinguish two problems: > > The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays > several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an arbitrary-numbered > case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid which > eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level of > detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and potentially > life-saving. > > The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or windshield or > manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike the > aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift and a > line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. > > Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which attributes we > choose to model. > > IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number problem, > but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, this > latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time > Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my piece at > Red Gate's site). > > Arthur From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Tue Mar 8 10:09:06 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 08:09:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Nested Sub Querys Message-ID: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All As Dan said OMG how much don't I know. When fooling around with SQL Server I found you could next multiple subquerys in the pass- through SQL string. I tried the same logic with Access and sure enough it works. And "Duh" did some research and it has been there all along. Sure speeds things up when you are dealing with very large tables of data. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 8 12:44:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 13:44:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Nested Sub Querys In-Reply-To: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D767925.6010904@colbyconsulting.com> Are you talking about WHERE PK in (SELECT PK FROM SomeOtherSet) kind of thing? I am using that a ton in SQL Server. It turns non-updateable queries (joined to something else) into updateable queries. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/8/2011 11:09 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > As Dan said OMG how much don't I know. > When fooling around with SQL Server I found you could next multiple subquerys in the pass- through > SQL string. I tried the same logic with Access and sure enough it works. And "Duh" did some research > and it has been there all along. Sure speeds things up when you are dealing with very large tables > of data. From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 13:12:19 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 11:12:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view Message-ID: I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting from one table. The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the role at the table level. The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. Any ideas? From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 13:28:48 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 13:28:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Message-ID: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 8 14:51:13 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 07:51:13 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 8 15:01:30 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 08:01:30 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 15:23:53 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 15:23:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> Are you talking about the entire suite or just the Total Access Analyzer? JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 8 15:40:48 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 00:40:48 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- Just put that fields' and tables' names into square brackets wherever you'll be referencing them. But if you have time and there are not that much places to rename that fields and tables - do renaming. The issues when that fields' and tables' names are not put into square brackets could be (query) compilation errors as well as "strange behavior" of MS Access including GPF-ing... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 8 ????? 2011 ?. 22:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 16:13:43 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:13:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4d76aa19.0d44970a.0fdc.ffffb9e5@mx.google.com> Shamil, I have done some renaming, but it seems to be a waste of time if "it works" without too many issues. Thanks, JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Hi Jim -- Just put that fields' and tables' names into square brackets wherever you'll be referencing them. But if you have time and there are not that much places to rename that fields and tables - do renaming. The issues when that fields' and tables' names are not put into square brackets could be (query) compilation errors as well as "strange behavior" of MS Access including GPF-ing... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 8 ????? 2011 ?. 22:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 8 16:41:35 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 01:41:35 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d76aa19.0d44970a.0fdc.ffffb9e5@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> <4d76aa19.0d44970a.0fdc.ffffb9e5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <928F9161DE3046D79BE2EDB1EBC6B590@nant> Jim -- Yes, it will work - just when you'll find some "strange" MS Access behaviour - first of all check for reserved words used which are not put into square brackets. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 9 ????? 2011 ?. 1:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Shamil, I have done some renaming, but it seems to be a waste of time if "it works" without too many issues. Thanks, JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Hi Jim -- Just put that fields' and tables' names into square brackets wherever you'll be referencing them. But if you have time and there are not that much places to rename that fields and tables - do renaming. The issues when that fields' and tables' names are not put into square brackets could be (query) compilation errors as well as "strange behavior" of MS Access including GPF-ing... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 8 ????? 2011 ?. 22:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue Mar 8 17:29:39 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 00:29:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you can give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the table. If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view then the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit privileges on the table itself. That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all objects in the database. Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting from one table. The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the role at the table level. The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. Any ideas? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Tue Mar 8 12:59:17 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 10:59:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Nested Sub Querys In-Reply-To: <4D767925.6010904@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D767925.6010904@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D767C85.60208@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John No I am talking about nested subquerys where You can do the original query on a join for example and do your calculations Then drill down with other subsequent subquerys to produce your final results Pretty cool. jwcolby wrote: > Are you talking about > > WHERE PK in (SELECT PK FROM SomeOtherSet) > > kind of thing? I am using that a ton in SQL Server. It turns > non-updateable queries (joined to something else) into updateable > queries. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/8/2011 11:09 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > >> Hey All >> As Dan said OMG how much don't I know. >> When fooling around with SQL Server I found you could next multiple >> subquerys in the pass- through >> SQL string. I tried the same logic with Access and sure enough it >> works. And "Duh" did some research >> and it has been there all along. Sure speeds things up when you are >> dealing with very large tables >> of data. > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 17:45:04 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 15:45:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They got it going using CREATE VIEW vwViewName WITH VIEW_METADATA AS ... On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > David, > Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". > If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you can > give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the table. > If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view then > the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit privileges > on the table itself. > That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all > objects in the database. > Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql > Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: > EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view > > I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. > > In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting > from one table. > > The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the > role at the table level. > > The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? > > I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. > > > Any ideas? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 8 18:24:47 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 11:24:47 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Total Access Analyzer ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Are you talking about the entire suite or just the Total Access Analyzer? JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue Mar 8 18:34:25 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 01:34:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A6C4C87443F43DB90C674BE625E64CA@abpc> Fine. Haven't used this option so far - interesting, will remember it for future cases. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 9. marts 2011 00:45 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Can't update view They got it going using CREATE VIEW vwViewName WITH VIEW_METADATA AS ... On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > David, > Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". > If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you can > give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the table. > If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view then > the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit privileges > on the table itself. > That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all > objects in the database. > Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql > Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: > EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view > > I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. > > In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting > from one table. > > The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the > role at the table level. > > The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? > > I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. > > > Any ideas? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 18:51:34 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:51:34 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: <4A6C4C87443F43DB90C674BE625E64CA@abpc> References: <4A6C4C87443F43DB90C674BE625E64CA@abpc> Message-ID: It had me confused too. The other developer tends to not use PKs (or uses a lot of multi-natural key indexes) so I figured that's what it was. I was too swamped today to give it any more time than I did. He had the view bound form working by giving rights to the table, so it wasn't like he was down. I let him borrow my Susan & Martin book (as I like to call it) and showed him the part in the book for possible reasons. D On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > Fine. Haven't used this option so far - interesting, will remember it for > future cases. > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > Sendt: 9. marts 2011 00:45 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: Re: [AccessD] Can't update view > > They got it going using > > CREATE VIEW vwViewName WITH VIEW_METADATA AS ... > > > > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > > > David, > > Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". > > If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you > can > > give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the > table. > > If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view > then > > the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit > privileges > > on the table itself. > > That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all > > objects in the database. > > Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql > > Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: > > EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' > > > > Asger > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > > Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 > > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view > > > > I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. > > > > In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting > > from one table. > > > > The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the > > role at the table level. > > > > The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? > > > > I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into > this. > > > > > > Any ideas? > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Mar 8 19:24:04 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:24:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <001501cbddf8$ade44fc0$09acef40$@net> Based on the size of the system and the detailed level (3000+ suggestions !) of feedback provided, I'd say this was a good product without even having used it directly. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > ________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________ > ________________ > > > > Jim, > > I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It > looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that > maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can > do. Or it may not be... > > be interested to know more for a real user. > > cheers > darryl. From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 14:02:37 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:02:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 9 14:22:42 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 15:22:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> Jim, <> Couple of comments: 1. Domain functions are often slower, but not always. There was a very old Smart Access article with timings that showed in some cases that domain function could be faster then other methods. If in doubt, test. 2. There are custom procedures out on the net to replace the domain functions, which give more flexibility and typically the same speed. 3. Domain functions should never be used inside of a SQL statement (query). Reason being is that they cannot be optimized by the query parser. Your better off with a sub select (and after all, all a Domain function really is is an encapsulated SQL statement). Even better yet, use another query as a base "table" in your query and do a join on it. 4. Use them like they were intended to be used; places where a VBA expression is allowed but a SQL statement or recordset is not. Or with Dlookup, which is used to fetch one value; don't use it to fetch five different fields from the same record. Instead, open a recordset, find the record, and have all the fields available. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 03:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Mar 9 14:25:54 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:25:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Tools (was: Access Reserved words) Message-ID: <003501cbde98$37d0d7e0$a77287a0$@comcast.net> I've use the Analyzer many times - and it is good at catching many things. It does take some practice to learn how to go through the list of errors and long lists of suggestions. I also think that it's cost is well worth it - I have avoided problems that customers would have experienced. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 2:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 14:29:09 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:29:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> <796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> Message-ID: <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I'll review where I've used them and make adjustments as needed. Thanks again, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 2:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, <> Couple of comments: 1. Domain functions are often slower, but not always. There was a very old Smart Access article with timings that showed in some cases that domain function could be faster then other methods. If in doubt, test. 2. There are custom procedures out on the net to replace the domain functions, which give more flexibility and typically the same speed. 3. Domain functions should never be used inside of a SQL statement (query). Reason being is that they cannot be optimized by the query parser. Your better off with a sub select (and after all, all a Domain function really is is an encapsulated SQL statement). Even better yet, use another query as a base "table" in your query and do a join on it. 4. Use them like they were intended to be used; places where a VBA expression is allowed but a SQL statement or recordset is not. Or with Dlookup, which is used to fetch one value; don't use it to fetch five different fields from the same record. Instead, open a recordset, find the record, and have all the fields available. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 03:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Wed Mar 9 14:39:29 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:39:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Message-ID: Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Wed Mar 9 14:41:24 2011 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 15:41:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com><796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: If you want to do renaming, Rick Fishers Find and Replace will make it a breeze for ~$30 http://www.rickworld.com/products.html Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I'll review where I've used them and make adjustments as needed. Thanks again, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 2:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, <> Couple of comments: 1. Domain functions are often slower, but not always. There was a very old Smart Access article with timings that showed in some cases that domain function could be faster then other methods. If in doubt, test. 2. There are custom procedures out on the net to replace the domain functions, which give more flexibility and typically the same speed. 3. Domain functions should never be used inside of a SQL statement (query). Reason being is that they cannot be optimized by the query parser. Your better off with a sub select (and after all, all a Domain function really is is an encapsulated SQL statement). Even better yet, use another query as a base "table" in your query and do a join on it. 4. Use them like they were intended to be used; places where a VBA expression is allowed but a SQL statement or recordset is not. Or with Dlookup, which is used to fetch one value; don't use it to fetch five different fields from the same record. Instead, open a recordset, find the record, and have all the fields available. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 03:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael at mattysconsulting.com Wed Mar 9 15:08:53 2011 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 16:08:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Wed Mar 9 15:32:19 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 15:32:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> References: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> Message-ID: Michael, It could be but not sure how to do it. We have reports built to print one job, range of jobs, or all jobs. These reports drag data from multiple sources. We built a query to get the current jobs worked on and do a report in "pdf" and output to a file. Then we go get the next number and do it again. However if we could run the all jobs report and then print each page to a "pdf" to file it should save a lot of time. We are trying to go a little greener by filing on the server and not print to paper each page. This also allows all the engineers we have to go and view any job they want. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael at mattysconsulting.com Wed Mar 9 15:45:19 2011 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 16:45:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: References: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> Message-ID: <44833D0DAA8B44F8A9382DD9A7976043@Gateway> Steve, I think I'd use a recordset to get all relevant JobIDs and loop through them while altering the AllJobs querydef to change the parameter for JobID. Not sure, though, sounds like you have 'mitigating circumstances.' Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 4:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Michael, It could be but not sure how to do it. We have reports built to print one job, range of jobs, or all jobs. These reports drag data from multiple sources. We built a query to get the current jobs worked on and do a report in "pdf" and output to a file. Then we go get the next number and do it again. However if we could run the all jobs report and then print each page to a "pdf" to file it should save a lot of time. We are trying to go a little greener by filing on the server and not print to paper each page. This also allows all the engineers we have to go and view any job they want. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Mar 9 22:46:30 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 23:46:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com><796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000501cbdede$2065a770$6130f650$@net> I concur...I bot it and it's been great. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words > > If you want to do renaming, Rick Fishers Find and Replace will make it > a > breeze for ~$30 > http://www.rickworld.com/products.html > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us From sturner at mseco.com Thu Mar 10 09:12:49 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 09:12:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: <44833D0DAA8B44F8A9382DD9A7976043@Gateway> References: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> <44833D0DAA8B44F8A9382DD9A7976043@Gateway> Message-ID: Michael, Thanks for the help. I didn't write the code but my boss did. However after thinking about it and how many records it was accessing well over 600.000 and the query output around 800, I figured that it would be a lot faster to write the all report data to a table and have his save code access that data to write to a file. Accessing the small file seems instantaneous to get a report. This should dramatically speed up the process. First time he ran his code it took over an hour and a half to process the way he was doing it. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Steve, I think I'd use a recordset to get all relevant JobIDs and loop through them while altering the AllJobs querydef to change the parameter for JobID. Not sure, though, sounds like you have 'mitigating circumstances.' Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 4:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Michael, It could be but not sure how to do it. We have reports built to print one job, range of jobs, or all jobs. These reports drag data from multiple sources. We built a query to get the current jobs worked on and do a report in "pdf" and output to a file. Then we go get the next number and do it again. However if we could run the all jobs report and then print each page to a "pdf" to file it should save a lot of time. We are trying to go a little greener by filing on the server and not print to paper each page. This also allows all the engineers we have to go and view any job they want. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 10 10:29:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 11:29:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database Message-ID: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two projects. I want to leave the existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved out, debugged and running and in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along the baggage of the old revisions into the new database. How do I go about this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jedi at charm.net Thu Mar 10 11:49:52 2011 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 12:49:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database In-Reply-To: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> How about GET what you need and create a new project. Mike > I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two > projects. I want to leave the > existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved out, > debugged and running and > in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along the > baggage of the old > revisions into the new database. > > How do I go about this? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 10 12:20:08 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:20:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database In-Reply-To: <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4D791658.90109@colbyconsulting.com> > How about GET what you need and create a new project. Uhhh... (scratches head???) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/10/2011 12:49 PM, Michael Bahr wrote: > How about GET what you need and create a new project. > > Mike > >> I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two >> projects. I want to leave the >> existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved out, >> debugged and running and >> in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along the >> baggage of the old >> revisions into the new database. >> >> How do I go about this? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Mar 10 15:20:29 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:20:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From cjlabs at att.net Thu Mar 10 15:29:38 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:29:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and 2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time to find out what is different. These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" "mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work as they should in 2007. Carolyn Johnson St Louis, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Thu Mar 10 15:38:03 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:38:03 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> Message-ID: <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 10 15:41:27 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:41:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: I would like to be able to obtain the names on all TABs on a Form so that I can work with these names in VBA (Access 2007). Thanks for your help, Brad From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 10 15:54:29 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:54:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machine and access 2010 Message-ID: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 10 16:00:05 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:00:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: Tab controls have a Pages property, one Page per tab. so you can find out how many tabs with MsgBox "Number of pages in TabCtl1:" & TabCtl1.Pages.Count And you can access the actual tab with TabCtl11.Pages(n) Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? I would like to be able to obtain the names on all TABs on a Form so that I can work with these names in VBA (Access 2007). Thanks for your help, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Thu Mar 10 16:40:34 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 16:40:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property On Error Resume Next CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue If Err.Number = 3270 Then Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp End If End Sub I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather than boolean values. Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do list. Guess I'll cross it off! Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 10 16:58:07 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 01:58:07 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> Message-ID: <3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 10 17:04:09 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:04:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? Thanks! References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: Lambert, Thanks for the help, I appreciate it. I have things working now with your assistance. Thanks again, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? Tab controls have a Pages property, one Page per tab. so you can find out how many tabs with MsgBox "Number of pages in TabCtl1:" & TabCtl1.Pages.Count And you can access the actual tab with TabCtl11.Pages(n) Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? I would like to be able to obtain the names on all TABs on a Form so that I can work with these names in VBA (Access 2007). Thanks for your help, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 10 17:29:26 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:29:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> <3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> Message-ID: <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 10 17:46:49 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:46:49 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Message-ID: <4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I use a more generic Function where you pass the property type as well: SetProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Public Function SetProperty(strPropName As String, _ varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_SetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_SetProperty: Exit Function Err_SetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else SetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_SetProperty End If End Function On 10 Mar 2011 at 16:40, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As > Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property > > On Error Resume Next > > CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue > If Err.Number = 3270 Then > Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) > CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp > End If > > End Sub > > > I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather > than boolean values. > > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 10 17:51:52 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 02:51:52 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net><3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> Hello Doug -- Is your source development PC 32 bit? I didn't try to solve the issue in details but for 64bit PC I do strictly setup custom .NET apps into C:\MyPrograms folder (you can call the target custom folder differently of course). Also for .NET code, which uses MS Access databases and compiled on 32bit systems and then setup and used on 64bit systems there should be the following command line applied: CorFlags.exe /32BIT+ MyDotNetUtils.dll CorFlags.exe can be found in WIndows 7 SDK AFAIKR. Be careful with applying corflags.exe for signed assemblies - I do use unsigned assemblies to simplify corflags.exe application to my custom .net apps and DLLs. <<< I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? >>> Not sure what you're asking here or I'd better write not sure if I'm answering your question: - my sample was a part/command line of .bat file I used - so it was fullpath or full command line not shortcut. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. CorFlags.exe /? Microsoft (R) .NET Framework CorFlags Conversion Tool. Version 3.5.30729.1 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Usage: Corflags.exe Assembly [options] If no options are specified, the flags for the given image are displayed. Options: /ILONLY+ /ILONLY- Sets/clears the ILONLY flag /32BIT+ /32BIT- Sets/clears the 32BIT flag /UpgradeCLRHeader Upgrade the CLR Header to version 2.5 /RevertCLRHeader Revert the CLR Header to version 2.0 /Force Force an assembly update even if the image is strong name signed. WARNING: Updating a strong name signed assembly will require the assembly to be resigned before it will execute properly. /nologo Prevents corflags from displaying logo /? or /help Display this usage message -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 2:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From member at linkedin.com Thu Mar 10 18:33:00 2011 From: member at linkedin.com (Janet Erbach via LinkedIn) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 00:33:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AccessD] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <388117698.4424825.1299803580238.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed40.prod> LinkedIn ------------Janet Erbach requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Doris, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Janet Accept invitation from Janet Erbach http://www.linkedin.com/e/s2e3k1-gl4dhpai-2e/GJGqr_Xcuww-eupoeCwqfm8l9PqY0AZwZCdqO6vpjBw/blk/I2680468753_2/1BpC5vrmRLoRZcjkkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYOnPcRdPwSd30Udz99bP5CqCB4q4hJbPoPdjARd3cUd38LrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ View invitation from Janet Erbach http://www.linkedin.com/e/s2e3k1-gl4dhpai-2e/GJGqr_Xcuww-eupoeCwqfm8l9PqY0AZwZCdqO6vpjBw/blk/I2680468753_2/39vcPkTe3oQc3wScAALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ ------------------------------------------ DID YOU KNOW you can showcase your professional knowledge on LinkedIn to receive job/consulting offers and enhance your professional reputation? Posting replies to questions on LinkedIn Answers puts you in front of the world's professional community. http://www.linkedin.com/e/s2e3k1-gl4dhpai-2e/abq/inv-24/ -- (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 11 08:26:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:26:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SVN - removing all version control for a directory and all files underneath Message-ID: <4D7A30FE.8050500@colbyconsulting.com> I am trying to copy a solution to a new location, strip all version control from it, delete a ton of projects within that solution and then version control the new solution. I copied the entire solution from my laptop to a VM and under my user / projects there. The copy still appears to be under version control. I looked in help and it says to copy the directory to itself using the vsn right click menu. I did that and it removed the vsn green checkmark from the top level directory (the solution) but left the check mark on all of the subdirectories (projects and stuff). Does anyone have a clue how to completely and entirely remove a directory from version control - remove all green check marks from every subdirectory etc.? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 11 08:59:23 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:59:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-SQLServer] SVN - removing all version control for a directory and all files underneath In-Reply-To: <4D7A30FE.8050500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7A30FE.8050500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7A38CB.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> As it turns out, doing the "export to same directory" seems to actually "unregister" the directory from source control. It leaves the green check marks in explorer - not sure what that means. However if I go into the solution itself, it no longer has the version control dots next to the items in the solution explorer. So it appears to have removed that local copy of the solution from source control. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/11/2011 9:26 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I am trying to copy a solution to a new location, strip all version control from it, delete a ton of > projects within that solution and then version control the new solution. > > I copied the entire solution from my laptop to a VM and under my user / projects there. The copy > still appears to be under version control. I looked in help and it says to copy the directory to > itself using the vsn right click menu. I did that and it removed the vsn green checkmark from the > top level directory (the solution) but left the check mark on all of the subdirectories (projects > and stuff). > > Does anyone have a clue how to completely and entirely remove a directory from version control - > remove all green check marks from every subdirectory etc.? From jedi at charm.net Fri Mar 11 11:44:39 2011 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:44:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database In-Reply-To: <4D791658.90109@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4D791658.90109@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3875.24.35.23.165.1299865479.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> GET is the common action term in SCM (Software Configuration Management) land to "copy" the files from the repository onto your computer. Then create a new project and add those files to the project. Mike > > How about GET what you need and create a new project. > > Uhhh... (scratches head???) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/10/2011 12:49 PM, Michael Bahr wrote: >> How about GET what you need and create a new project. >> >> Mike >> >>> I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two >>> projects. I want to leave the >>> existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved >>> out, >>> debugged and running and >>> in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along >>> the >>> baggage of the old >>> revisions into the new database. >>> >>> How do I go about this? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Sun Mar 13 10:20:31 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 07:20:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box Message-ID: <4D7CE0BF.7020105@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All I have a test form with 2 list boxes, select an item in ListBox1 and it requerys ListBox2 and displays the results. No linked tables, not working with SQL Server, and no network connection. ListBox2 rowsource is a Query with where matrix=FndMyMatrix() Requery in ListBox1 AfterUpdate. Now most of the time if I arrow up and down in the ListBox1, ListBox2 is requeryed and quickly displays the result. But sometimes when I open the form and Arrow down to Item 2 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 3 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 4 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow up Item 4 to Item 1 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down Item 1 to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down to Item 6 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery Arrow down to Item 7 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery And so on. ListBox1 displays 20 items at a time. Sometimes I can quickly arrow down to the 20th item, but when I arrow down to Item 21, ListBox2 is slow to requery and so on. This action is erractic, 99.9% of the time I have no problem opening the form and quickly arrowing up and down ListBox1, then out blue the above activity occurs. Because it is erratic it is making it kind of hard to trap for. Anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing this? Please don't tell me to tell my client not to use the arrow keys. I have decompiled and copied the mdb. Thanks From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 13 11:03:20 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:03:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box Message-ID: <20110313090320.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.88fe5eef65.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> WAG - try the scroll trick: In the open event of the form dim x as Variant x=Me.Listbox1.ListCount May not make a difference but it's a 30 second test. And how about requerying listbox 2 after the user makes a choice ? Is making Listbox1 a combo box with an after update event where you could put the listbox 2 requery an option? Rocky -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box From: Tony Septav Date: Sun, March 13, 2011 8:20 am To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Hey All I have a test form with 2 list boxes, select an item in ListBox1 and it requerys ListBox2 and displays the results. No linked tables, not working with SQL Server, and no network connection. ListBox2 rowsource is a Query with where matrix=FndMyMatrix() Requery in ListBox1 AfterUpdate. Now most of the time if I arrow up and down in the ListBox1, ListBox2 is requeryed and quickly displays the result. But sometimes when I open the form and Arrow down to Item 2 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 3 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 4 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow up Item 4 to Item 1 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down Item 1 to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down to Item 6 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery Arrow down to Item 7 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery And so on. ListBox1 displays 20 items at a time. Sometimes I can quickly arrow down to the 20th item, but when I arrow down to Item 21, ListBox2 is slow to requery and so on. This action is erractic, 99.9% of the time I have no problem opening the form and quickly arrowing up and down ListBox1, then out blue the above activity occurs. Because it is erratic it is making it kind of hard to trap for. Anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing this? Please don't tell me to tell my client not to use the arrow keys. I have decompiled and copied the mdb. Thanks -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Sun Mar 13 12:25:05 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:25:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box In-Reply-To: <20110313090320.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.88fe5eef65.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20110313090320.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.88fe5eef65.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <4D7CFDF1.1030501@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey Rocky Thanks Next time this weird thing occurs I will try the ListCount, may just do the job. Basically the ListBox2 is requeryed on AfterUpdate of ListBox1. It is just that because this weird thing happens out of the blue, that it has me baffled as to why/what causes it??? rockysmolin at bchacc.com wrote: >WAG - try the scroll trick: > >In the open event of the form > >dim x as Variant >x=Me.Listbox1.ListCount > >May not make a difference but it's a 30 second test. > >And how about requerying listbox 2 after the user makes a choice ? Is >making Listbox1 a combo box with an after update event where you could >put the listbox 2 requery an option? > > >Rocky > >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box >From: Tony Septav >Date: Sun, March 13, 2011 8:20 am >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >Hey All >I have a test form with 2 list boxes, select an item in ListBox1 and it >requerys ListBox2 and displays the results. > >No linked tables, not working with SQL Server, and no network >connection. > >ListBox2 rowsource is a Query with where matrix=FndMyMatrix() >Requery in ListBox1 AfterUpdate. > >Now most of the time if I arrow up and down in the ListBox1, ListBox2 >is requeryed and quickly displays the result. But sometimes when I open >the form and >Arrow down to Item 2 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow down to Item 3 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow down to Item 4 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow down to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow up Item 4 to Item 1 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. >Arrow down Item 1 to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. >Arrow down to Item 6 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery >Arrow down to Item 7 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery >And so on. > >ListBox1 displays 20 items at a time. >Sometimes I can quickly arrow down to the 20th item, but when I arrow >down to Item 21, ListBox2 is slow to requery and so on. > >This action is erractic, 99.9% of the time I have no problem opening >the form and quickly arrowing up and down ListBox1, then out blue the >above activity occurs. Because it is erratic it is making it kind of >hard to trap for. Anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing >this? Please don't tell me to tell my client not to use the arrow keys. > >I have decompiled and copied the mdb. > >Thanks > > > From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun Mar 13 15:22:36 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 13:22:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net><3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> <0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> Message-ID: <000001cbe1bc$64b277b0$2e176710$@cox.net> Hello Shamil, Using the correct version of regasm did the trick. Thank you for your help. I may need to look at CorFlags if we ever move this to a 64 bit machine. Nice to know it is available. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Doug -- Is your source development PC 32 bit? I didn't try to solve the issue in details but for 64bit PC I do strictly setup custom .NET apps into C:\MyPrograms folder (you can call the target custom folder differently of course). Also for .NET code, which uses MS Access databases and compiled on 32bit systems and then setup and used on 64bit systems there should be the following command line applied: CorFlags.exe /32BIT+ MyDotNetUtils.dll CorFlags.exe can be found in WIndows 7 SDK AFAIKR. Be careful with applying corflags.exe for signed assemblies - I do use unsigned assemblies to simplify corflags.exe application to my custom .net apps and DLLs. <<< I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? >>> Not sure what you're asking here or I'd better write not sure if I'm answering your question: - my sample was a part/command line of .bat file I used - so it was fullpath or full command line not shortcut. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. CorFlags.exe /? Microsoft (R) .NET Framework CorFlags Conversion Tool. Version 3.5.30729.1 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Usage: Corflags.exe Assembly [options] If no options are specified, the flags for the given image are displayed. Options: /ILONLY+ /ILONLY- Sets/clears the ILONLY flag /32BIT+ /32BIT- Sets/clears the 32BIT flag /UpgradeCLRHeader Upgrade the CLR Header to version 2.5 /RevertCLRHeader Revert the CLR Header to version 2.0 /Force Force an assembly update even if the image is strong name signed. WARNING: Updating a strong name signed assembly will require the assembly to be resigned before it will execute properly. /nologo Prevents corflags from displaying logo /? or /help Display this usage message -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 2:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sun Mar 13 15:43:01 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 23:43:01 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll ona windows7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <000001cbe1bc$64b277b0$2e176710$@cox.net> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net><3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net><0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> <000001cbe1bc$64b277b0$2e176710$@cox.net> Message-ID: <9C53771FC0064F54B25FE225D9279938@nant> Hello Doug -- Good to know it worked there finally. Yes, Corflags helps me to develop .NET applications/web services on 32-bit system and to deliver that apps for a customer who has 64bit system... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 13 ????? 2011 ?. 23:23 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll ona windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Using the correct version of regasm did the trick. Thank you for your help. I may need to look at CorFlags if we ever move this to a 64 bit machine. Nice to know it is available. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Doug -- Is your source development PC 32 bit? I didn't try to solve the issue in details but for 64bit PC I do strictly setup custom .NET apps into C:\MyPrograms folder (you can call the target custom folder differently of course). Also for .NET code, which uses MS Access databases and compiled on 32bit systems and then setup and used on 64bit systems there should be the following command line applied: CorFlags.exe /32BIT+ MyDotNetUtils.dll CorFlags.exe can be found in WIndows 7 SDK AFAIKR. Be careful with applying corflags.exe for signed assemblies - I do use unsigned assemblies to simplify corflags.exe application to my custom .net apps and DLLs. <<< I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? >>> Not sure what you're asking here or I'd better write not sure if I'm answering your question: - my sample was a part/command line of .bat file I used - so it was fullpath or full command line not shortcut. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. CorFlags.exe /? Microsoft (R) .NET Framework CorFlags Conversion Tool. Version 3.5.30729.1 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Usage: Corflags.exe Assembly [options] If no options are specified, the flags for the given image are displayed. Options: /ILONLY+ /ILONLY- Sets/clears the ILONLY flag /32BIT+ /32BIT- Sets/clears the 32BIT flag /UpgradeCLRHeader Upgrade the CLR Header to version 2.5 /RevertCLRHeader Revert the CLR Header to version 2.0 /Force Force an assembly update even if the image is strong name signed. WARNING: Updating a strong name signed assembly will require the assembly to be resigned before it will execute properly. /nologo Prevents corflags from displaying logo /? or /help Display this usage message -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 2:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun Mar 13 16:33:58 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 14:33:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Message-ID: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Mar 13 16:41:58 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 16:41:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> References: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> Message-ID: <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun Mar 13 16:46:44 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 14:46:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> References: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000a01cbe1c8$2563aff0$702b0fd0$@cox.net> Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 13 21:58:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 22:58:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) Message-ID: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install it. I had a Windows 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I installed the runtime. I got the directory path declared a safe location and voila, the application ran. Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a friend's (rather old) XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine which it appears that I wiped and installed XP on some time ago. I installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then installed the runtime there and tried to run. No go. Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I built a little test version with just a single table and an autoform which automatically opened when the app opened. It actually reported that it couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). So I started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by SQL Server as it installs. However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out there for download. I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and ran a network cable so it is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to my network via my wireless and it runs. So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which makes sense since this is SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL driver to be part of the Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow me to hook up to the sql server instance. So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the sqlncli.msi installer installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, hitting the sql server over the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). And it works on this machine of mine. Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine (also running XP but on 512 megs of ram) and ensure that will run. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun Mar 13 22:21:52 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:21:52 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) In-Reply-To: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <021101cbe1f6$f7f23080$e7d69180$@activebilling.com.au> Hi John I'd be interested to know performance/speeds etc Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 14 March 2011 1:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install it. I had a Windows 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I installed the runtime. I got the directory path declared a safe location and voila, the application ran. Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a friend's (rather old) XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine which it appears that I wiped and installed XP on some time ago. I installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then installed the runtime there and tried to run. No go. Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I built a little test version with just a single table and an autoform which automatically opened when the app opened. It actually reported that it couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). So I started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by SQL Server as it installs. However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out there for download. I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and ran a network cable so it is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to my network via my wireless and it runs. So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which makes sense since this is SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL driver to be part of the Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow me to hook up to the sql server instance. So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the sqlncli.msi installer installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, hitting the sql server over the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). And it works on this machine of mine. Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine (also running XP but on 512 megs of ram) and ensure that will run. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 13 22:27:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 23:27:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) In-Reply-To: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7D8B31.4080405@colbyconsulting.com> And it runs on the friend's old machine as well. It feels like I might be working now. I have to say this has been one of the most complex jobs I have taken on, with Hamachi VPN networks, a virtual machine running the sql server database, and then the client machine running Hamachi and an Access 2007 runtime. Safe zones, sql server drivers not installed. It has been a challenge getting this running. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/13/2011 10:58 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install it. I had a Windows > 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I installed the runtime. I > got the directory path declared a safe location and voila, the application ran. > > Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a friend's (rather old) > XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine which it appears that I wiped and installed XP > on some time ago. I installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then installed the > runtime there and tried to run. No go. > > Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I built a little test version > with just a single table and an autoform which automatically opened when the app opened. It actually > reported that it couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). So I > started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by SQL Server as it installs. > However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out there for download. > > I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and ran a network cable so it > is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to > my network via my wireless and it runs. > > So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which makes sense since this is > SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL > driver to be part of the Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. > > It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow me to hook up to the sql > server instance. > > So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the sqlncli.msi installer > installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, > hitting the sql server over the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). > > And it works on this machine of mine. > > Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine (also running XP but on 512 > megs of ram) and ensure that will run. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 07:48:12 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 08:48:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Simultaneous edits to ADO Message-ID: <4D7E0E8C.5080006@colbyconsulting.com> We have discussed questions regarding what happens when a form is bound to sql server via ado and two people edit the same record. I tested that this morning. 1) The edit symbol is only sporadically supported. Sometimes the symbol appears, sometimes not. I haven't discovered a pattern yet. 2) if two people try to edit the same record, the first to save does so with no error message, each additional save gets the "the record has changed" message and is offered the ability to save to a text file or the paste buffer. The button to overwrite is grayed out. 3) The second person to save gets the message even if they are not editing the same field. IOW it is detected at the record level. My guess is that this is the same behavior that you would get unbound using ADO. IOW it is up to you to trap the error and do something with it. since I use a framework I will be adding code to trap this error and attempt to discover if the second user is editing a different field. If so I may just save the edit with or without warning. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 07:53:57 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 08:53:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) In-Reply-To: <021101cbe1f6$f7f23080$e7d69180$@activebilling.com.au> References: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> <021101cbe1f6$f7f23080$e7d69180$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4D7E0FE5.6070808@colbyconsulting.com> I'm not sure how to test this in a meaningful way. I will be doing an install of this application on a system with varying connect speed. It is a PC running on a cellular link pretty far from a cell tower. It is roughly DSL speed at its best, but much less at its worst. I will post results from that system. I think I will have the framework log the time to open forms so that i can get a feel for the user experience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/13/2011 11:21 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi John > > I'd be interested to know performance/speeds etc > > Darren > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, 14 March 2011 1:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) > > I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install > it. I had a Windows > 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I > installed the runtime. I got the directory path declared a safe location > and voila, the application ran. > > Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a > friend's (rather old) XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine > which it appears that I wiped and installed XP on some time ago. I > installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then > installed the runtime there and tried to run. No go. > > Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I > built a little test version with just a single table and an autoform which > automatically opened when the app opened. It actually reported that it > couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). > So I started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by > SQL Server as it installs. However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out > there for download. > > I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and > ran a network cable so it is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I > then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to my network via my > wireless and it runs. > > So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which > makes sense since this is SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting > to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL driver to be part of the > Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. > > It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow > me to hook up to the sql server instance. > > So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the > sqlncli.msi installer installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the > Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, hitting the sql server over > the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). > > And it works on this machine of mine. > > Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine > (also running XP but on 512 megs of ram) and ensure that will run. > > From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Mar 14 13:05:49 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 13:05:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709091@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I know I should know this but cannot seem to recall it now. How do I put the two parts together? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property On Error Resume Next CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue If Err.Number = 3270 Then Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp End If End Sub I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather than boolean values. Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do list. Guess I'll cross it off! Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon Mar 14 13:10:54 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 13:10:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709091@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: I have a module with the 2 subs -- SetAppProperties and ChangeAppProperties. When my start up form opens, it calls SetAppProperties which uses ChangeAppProperties to set them the way I want (original post), which includes showing my own menu bars. Because some properties have boolean values and some have text values, you need to treat them differently. Stuart posted a sub that handles both. HTH, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I know I should know this but cannot seem to recall it now. How do I put the two parts together? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property On Error Resume Next CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue If Err.Number = 3270 Then Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp End If End Sub I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather than boolean values. Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do list. Guess I'll cross it off! Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 13:55:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:55:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox Message-ID: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Try this: Open firefox twice. Load different things in each. Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the other copy of firefox. Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance to the second instance. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon Mar 14 14:05:10 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:05:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Just like Google Chrome does. When did Mozilla catch up with Google? :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox Try this: Open firefox twice. Load different things in each. Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the other copy of firefox. Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance to the second instance. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 14:11:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 12:11:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: FireFox has done that for as long as I can remember. On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Heenan, Lambert < Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com> wrote: > Just like Google Chrome does. When did Mozilla catch up with Google? :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:56 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox > > Try this: > > Open firefox twice. > Load different things in each. > Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the > other copy of firefox. > Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second > copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance > to the second instance. > -- > John W. Colby > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 15:01:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:01:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7E7403.5010402@colbyconsulting.com> It never occurred to me to try it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/14/2011 3:11 PM, David McAfee wrote: > FireFox has done that for as long as I can remember. > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Heenan, Lambert< > Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com> wrote: > >> Just like Google Chrome does. When did Mozilla catch up with Google? :-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:56 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox >> >> Try this: >> >> Open firefox twice. >> Load different things in each. >> Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the >> other copy of firefox. >> Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second >> copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance >> to the second instance. >> -- >> John W. Colby >> From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Mon Mar 14 15:06:35 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 09:06:35 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: <4D7E7403.5010402@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7E7403.5010402@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9EF0178EA5594A1AA0084AEA2FE886B9@stevelaptop> ... until now. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:01 AM > It never occurred to me to try it. From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Mar 14 15:26:52 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:26:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709116@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I tried your code with the following settings and still see the ribbon and no custom toolbars. I have no custom menus. Am I missing some settings? Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) SetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "SACROC Surveillance" 'SetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "" SetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\OilBarrel24.ico" End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 5:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I use a more generic Function where you pass the property type as well: SetProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Public Function SetProperty(strPropName As String, _ varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_SetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_SetProperty: Exit Function Err_SetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else SetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_SetProperty End If End Function On 10 Mar 2011 at 16:40, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As > Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property > > On Error Resume Next > > CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue > If Err.Number = 3270 Then > Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) > CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp > End If > > End Sub > > > I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather > than boolean values. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon Mar 14 15:29:24 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:29:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell><4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709116@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: Try adding a default menu bar (eg File - Exit). Maybe that's the key. It would have your menu bar instead of the ribbon. I have custom menu bars and toolbars, and they both show with no ribbon. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I tried your code with the following settings and still see the ribbon and no custom toolbars. I have no custom menus. Am I missing some settings? Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) SetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "SACROC Surveillance" 'SetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "" SetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\OilBarrel24.ico" End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 5:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I use a more generic Function where you pass the property type as well: SetProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Public Function SetProperty(strPropName As String, _ varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_SetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_SetProperty: Exit Function Err_SetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else SetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_SetProperty End If End Function On 10 Mar 2011 at 16:40, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As > Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property > > On Error Resume Next > > CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue > If Err.Number = 3270 Then > Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) > CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp > End If > > End Sub > > > I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather > than boolean values. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Mar 14 18:30:17 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:30:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <000a01cbe1c8$2563aff0$702b0fd0$@cox.net> References: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> <000a01cbe1c8$2563aff0$702b0fd0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <000301cbe29f$c9900f10$5cb02d30$@cox.net> All, I am wondering if this is an Access 2010 to SQL Server 2008 thing. I have a test computer set up with Windows XP, Access 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005. The upsizing wizard works as advertised. When I try to upsize the test backend on my development computer Win 7/64, Access/32, and SQL Server 2008 R2 I get an message stating that "C:\Users\'\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Access\ACWZUSR12.ACCDU" isn't found or spelled correctly, but it is there, and the table list is empty in the wizard. I reinstalled the named file and it still I still get the message. The named file is the Access Wizard Add-in. It will open. I also tried this on a laptop with Win 7/32 with office 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005 and that worked. Seems to be something with SQL Server 2008 or the 64 bit version of Windows. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried the upsizing wizard in Access 2010 with SQL Server 2008? Not much in Google help for this one. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 15 02:41:08 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 07:41:08 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9661D@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Doug I will try it today if I get time later Martin Sent from my Windows Phone -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: 14 March 2011 23:35 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment All, I am wondering if this is an Access 2010 to SQL Server 2008 thing. I have a test computer set up with Windows XP, Access 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005. The upsizing wizard works as advertised. When I try to upsize the test backend on my development computer Win 7/64, Access/32, and SQL Server 2008 R2 I get an message stating that "C:\Users\'\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Access\ACWZUSR12.ACCDU" isn't found or spelled correctly, but it is there, and the table list is empty in the wizard. I reinstalled the named file and it still I still get the message. The named file is the Access Wizard Add-in. It will open. I also tried this on a laptop with Win 7/32 with office 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005 and that worked. Seems to be something with SQL Server 2008 or the 64 bit version of Windows. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried the upsizing wizard in Access 2010 with SQL Server 2008? Not much in Google help for this one. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue Mar 15 10:23:01 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 08:23:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9661D@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9661D@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <003c01cbe324$df2c95c0$9d85c140$@cox.net> Thank you Martin. That will be appreciated. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 12:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Doug I will try it today if I get time later Martin Sent from my Windows Phone -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: 14 March 2011 23:35 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment All, I am wondering if this is an Access 2010 to SQL Server 2008 thing. I have a test computer set up with Windows XP, Access 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005. The upsizing wizard works as advertised. When I try to upsize the test backend on my development computer Win 7/64, Access/32, and SQL Server 2008 R2 I get an message stating that "C:\Users\'\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Access\ACWZUSR12.ACCDU" isn't found or spelled correctly, but it is there, and the table list is empty in the wizard. I reinstalled the named file and it still I still get the message. The named file is the Access Wizard Add-in. It will open. I also tried this on a laptop with Win 7/32 with office 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005 and that worked. Seems to be something with SQL Server 2008 or the 64 bit version of Windows. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried the upsizing wizard in Access 2010 with SQL Server 2008? Not much in Google help for this one. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 15 15:44:22 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:44:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FYI Message-ID: <17F3E7E903E24B6CA5253BA915AAA070@XPS> FYI, VS 2010 SP1 is available for download and there has been a bunch of stuff released on Office 2010 development: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/gg549099.aspx Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 15 21:26:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 22:26:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime / SQL Server data project Message-ID: <4D801FD8.5020805@colbyconsulting.com> I went to the prison tonight to install the prison ministry database on a system there. Again the install looks like: 1) Install Hamachi and get it talking to the Hamachi server 2) Get Hamachi joined to the network for this specific project 3) Install the SQL Server native (ADO) driver using an MSI install package 4) Copy a directory structure with the database files - an application FE and my framework MDA 5) Run a little application which inserts registry stuff to make that directory a "safe location" 6) Run the application FE. This is moderately complicated by the fact that at this location the internet access is not "always on", but is a cellular (telephone) internet adapter on the end of a USB cable. So the user has to start the wireless adapter and get onto the internet, and then Hamachi has to log into the Hamachi server to get the point-to-point info to connect to my server. So we got the internet up, then I did 1 through 5 above. I have a test application which I try first which does *not* use my framework, but is just a simple form bound to one of the simplest tables on that SQL Server database. The test application opened and displayed the bound form just fine. It took me about 45 minutes to get to this point. When I double clicked on the real application file (mdb) it told me that the file that I just clicked on (the application MDB) could not be found. Say what??? I was a bit flustered by that but I went out to the applications folder and saw that Microsoft office had a folder so I drilled down into that and opened Access and ... it immediately (and without my asking) opened my application mdb that I had just been told couldn't be found. Say what??? So I closed it and went back to the application directory and double clicked the application mdb again and it opened, and continued to open without error after that. I created a shortcut to my MDB app on the desktop and opened it through that. The app is talking to SQL Server on my virtual machine server on my hardware at the office, over the internet - and a somewhat slow connection at that. I think the down link is about 380 kbit or some such. Anyway, I opened forms, entered some test data etc. It is working! It is not spectacularly fast but I have done zero optimizations to it. The main project form with a couple of regular bound subforms takes about 8-10 seconds to open. These same forms just snap open on the wi-fi at the local Arby's. So I will need to make sure that I use JIT subforms, and in the end I will probably have to go rework my framework to allow pulling a single record at a time for the main forms etc. Eventually I will use pass through queries to allow SQL Server to do the filtering and sorting of data. Stuff like that. But it works as is, lets me get something into their hands, and allows me to optimize once I have fleshed out the application itself. So there ya have it. Access runtime, using bound forms, on a too slow internet over an Hamachi software vpn to a virtual machine running Windows 2003 x86 with 4 gigs of memory running SQL Server 2008 Express x86. If that isn't "worst case" I don't know what is, not to mention a whole lot of esoteric technology pulled together to make one tiny little database work. ;) Having done that I have an immediate need for the exact same technology stack for two more projects. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 05:49:29 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 09:12:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:12:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQLOLEDB Message-ID: <4D80C557.1010606@colbyconsulting.com> Can I use an IP address as the data source property for the adodb connection? As I have discussed, I am hitting the SQL database over the internet using Hamachi. this morning I am researching how to bind forms to an ADO recordset. The first thing I have to do is establish a connection to the database as shown below. With cn .Provider = "Microsoft.Access.OLEDB.10.0" .Properties("Data Provider").Value = "SQLOLEDB" '.Properties("Data Source").Value = "5.203.167.79" .Properties("Data Source").Value = "VMDev\SQLExpress" .Properties("Initial Catalog").Value = cfw.mSVAppData("DbName") .Properties("User ID").Value = "XXX" .Properties("Password").Value = "YYY" .Open End With Using the ip address for the Data Source property throws an error on the .Open. Simply changing that to the hard coded database name allows the .Open. I changed to the following and it works! strCnn = "Data Source=" & cfw.mSVAppData("ServerIP") & ",1433;Network Library=DBMSSOCN;Initial Catalog=" & cfw.mSVAppData("DbName") & ";User ID=" & "XXX" & ";Password=" & "YYY" & ";" With cn .ConnectionString = strCnn .Provider = "Microsoft.Access.OLEDB.10.0" .Properties("Data Provider").Value = "SQLOLEDB" .Open End With End If I then used this to open a recordset as follows: Function ADORst(strSQL) As ADODB.Recordset Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo Err_ADORst mCnnInit 'Create an instance of the ADO Recordset class, and 'set its properties Set rs = New ADODB.Recordset With rs Set .ActiveConnection = cn .Source = strSQL .LockType = adLockOptimistic .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .Open End With Set ADORst = rs Exit_ADORst: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_ADORst: Select Case Err Case 0 '.insert Errors you wish to ignore here Resume Next Case Else '.All other errors will trap Beep LogErr Err.Number, Err.Description, Erl, cstrModule, "ADORst" Resume Exit_ADORst End Select Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function And then in the form itself (onOpen) I did this: set me.Recordset = ADORST("MySqlStatementHere") and voila, my form is bound to an ADODB recordset. This should make a huge difference to my applications, allowing SQL Server to do the work and just return the data. And *supposedly* in all Access versions above 2000 the form is read/write. Of course I now need to test under runtime. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 12:04:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 13:04:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error Message-ID: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> "Data provider could not be initialized". Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Wed Mar 16 13:04:39 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:04:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not configured properly" http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: Restart IIS Restart computer Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error "Data provider could not be initialized". Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 14:23:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 15:23:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Issues when using ADO Message-ID: <4D810E36.40204@colbyconsulting.com> Interesting set of "gotcha's" http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 14:36:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 15:36:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 2:04 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not configured properly" > > http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: > > Restart IIS > > Restart computer > > Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) > > Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > "Data provider could not be initialized". > > Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 16 15:22:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 13:22:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: It makes me wonder if you will have to go unbound on your series of applications? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 2:04 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not configured properly" > > http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: > > Restart IIS > > Restart computer > > Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) > > Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > "Data provider could not be initialized". > > Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From phpons at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 16:05:48 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 22:05:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to insert a tag into an invoice? Message-ID: Hi all, I have the following situation to deal with at one of my customers. They scan the invoices they receive, and store the file into the file system. When the invoice get paid, they want to insert a tag (kind of validation signature) into the electronic file of the invoice, before saving it into a different directory. How would you the tag insertion? Is it at least possible? Thanks in advance for your input. Philippe From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 16:24:35 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 17:24:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D812A93.7040300@colbyconsulting.com> Well, let me put it this way. Unbound means rewriting my framework. A thousand or so hours. For free projects. Hmm... Seems unlikely. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 4:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > It makes me wonder if you will have to go unbound on your series of > applications? > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:36 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. > > http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO > > It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. > It really appears that > when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are a host of issues with > the RecordsetClone (which > is DAO) and that perhaps recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support > the form. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 2:04 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the > database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the > ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not > configured properly" >> >> http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can > happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components > conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: >> >> Restart IIS >> >> Restart computer >> >> Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) >> >> Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" >> >> Lambert >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error >> >> "Data provider could not be initialized". >> >> Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the > internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From BradM at blackforestltd.com Wed Mar 16 16:27:32 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:27:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that might be useful. We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) in the Runtime environment. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 16:31:32 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:31:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the subform with ADO. Maybe I missed the post where you specified the code that was going sideways. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby wrote: > This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. > > http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO > > It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. > ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are > a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps > recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 16 16:43:53 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 07:43:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How to insert a tag into an invoice? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D812F19.32276.22CE9AD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> EXIF tags? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format You can insert tags from Access by Shelling to the commandline utility ExifUtils http://www.hugsan.com/EXIFutils/ There are lots of EXIF viewers available, incluindg Explorer - just right click on an suitable scanned image and select Properties/Details. You can also edit tags and comments in the same place - just hover over the Value area and you will see a box "Add tags" etc. On 16 Mar 2011 at 22:05, philippe pons wrote: > Hi all, > > > I have the following situation to deal with at one of my customers. > > They scan the invoices they receive, and store the file into the file > system. > > When the invoice get paid, they want to insert a tag (kind of > validation signature) into the electronic file of the invoice, before > saving it into a different directory. > > How would you the tag insertion? Is it at least possible? > > Thanks in advance for your input. > > Philippe > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From phpons at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 17:02:03 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 23:02:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to insert a tag into an invoice? In-Reply-To: <4D812F19.32276.22CE9AD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D812F19.32276.22CE9AD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Thank's Stuart, will test it asap. Philippe 2011/3/16 Stuart McLachlan > EXIF tags? > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format > > You can insert tags from Access by Shelling to the commandline utility > ExifUtils > http://www.hugsan.com/EXIFutils/ > > There are lots of EXIF viewers available, incluindg Explorer - just right > click on an suitable > scanned image and select Properties/Details. You can also edit tags and > comments in the > same place - just hover over the Value area and you will see a box "Add > tags" etc. > > On 16 Mar 2011 at 22:05, philippe pons wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have the following situation to deal with at one of my customers. > > > > They scan the invoices they receive, and store the file into the file > > system. > > > > When the invoice get paid, they want to insert a tag (kind of > > validation signature) into the electronic file of the invoice, before > > saving it into a different directory. > > > > How would you the tag insertion? Is it at least possible? > > > > Thanks in advance for your input. > > > > Philippe > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 17:05:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:05:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> In my framework I do JIT subforms. Part of the JIT subform process is to set the subform binding properties. I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. It appears that it is a known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field properties of a subform bound to ADO. Broken, throws an error, doesn't work, no fix. The work around is to filter the subform to only pull records for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset that the subform is bound to. So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. And in there somewhere I have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the parent fires (new parent PKID). All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to ADO. Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO recordset. I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as the DAO bound form. And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out a way to fix them. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > John, > > I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. > I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the > subform with ADO. Maybe I missed the post where you specified the > code that was going sideways. > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >> >> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >> >> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. >> It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are >> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 16 23:16:40 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 21:16:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? Message-ID: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Dear List: I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., fields into each table. Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 23:30:41 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 00:30:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: Rocky, Just curious, but why 3 tables? jack On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that > will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., > fields into each table. > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an > FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 16 23:29:27 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:29:27 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: <201103170431.p2H4VtxA018770@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ I usually have a seperate table for State and then a table for Postcodes with the state linked as a FK. Then I tie the Postcode table to the address (which has PCode and State together). Regards Darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin [rockysmolin at bchacc.com] Sent: Thursday, 17 March 2011 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? Dear List: I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., fields into each table. Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 16 23:37:47 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 21:37:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their home address - even though in most cases the participant record would also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity would be different. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? Rocky, Just curious, but why 3 tables? jack On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > that will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, > etc., fields into each table. > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 17 06:40:21 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:40:21 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005>, , Message-ID: <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> For ease of maintenance, sInce the address is directly related to the entity, I'd put them in the entity tables. As long as you keep the address fields standard, you can always use a UNION query to get all addresses if you need to combine then, with a flag to identify the type of entity Select "C" Addres,City... from tblCompanies union Select "S" Addres,City... from tblSocieties union Select "P" Addres,City... from tblPeople I also agree with Darryl, I'd try to use some form of Postcode,City, State lookup table and only store an FK to that tree, rathe than full details of the geographical hierarchy -- Stuart On 16 Mar 2011 at 21:37, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one > is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their > home address - even though in most cases the participant record would > also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be > common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity > would be different. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack > drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB > Design Question - too much normalization? > > Rocky, > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > jack > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > > that will have address information. There will probably be no > > overlap. > > > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main > > fax, etc., fields into each table. > > > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 17 07:49:54 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 05:49:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005>, , <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <647831F9F306495CB40C4C7439033978@HAL9005> I have a zip code table - can't remember where I got it - that I use in several apps - the user can enter a zip code and the city and state are retrieved from the zip code table. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? For ease of maintenance, sInce the address is directly related to the entity, I'd put them in the entity tables. As long as you keep the address fields standard, you can always use a UNION query to get all addresses if you need to combine then, with a flag to identify the type of entity Select "C" Addres,City... from tblCompanies union Select "S" Addres,City... from tblSocieties union Select "P" Addres,City... from tblPeople I also agree with Darryl, I'd try to use some form of Postcode,City, State lookup table and only store an FK to that tree, rathe than full details of the geographical hierarchy -- Stuart On 16 Mar 2011 at 21:37, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one > is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their > home address - even though in most cases the participant record would > also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be > common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity > would be different. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack > drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB > Design Question - too much normalization? > > Rocky, > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > jack > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > > that will have address information. There will probably be no > > overlap. > > > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main > > fax, etc., fields into each table. > > > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 07:50:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 08:50:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the application. From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will > apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that > might be useful. > > We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. > > While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user > interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) > in the Runtime environment. > > Brad From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 08:00:04 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:00:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: <7FD40A0658B64E6CA7F3F0DFE19ABD23@SusanHarkins> That was my question -- 3 tables of addresses? A Zip code lookup table can be a cool feature if someone's going to be entering lots of addresses and repeat Zip codes. Susan H. > Rocky, > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > jack > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > >> Dear List: >> >> I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that >> will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. >> >> Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, >> etc., >> fields into each table. >> >> Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and >> an >> FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 08:56:17 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:56:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <7FD40A0658B64E6CA7F3F0DFE19ABD23@SusanHarkins> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> <7FD40A0658B64E6CA7F3F0DFE19ABD23@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I concur with the PostalCode, City, State table set up -- very useful. With respect to the "addresses", will these be shipping address, billing address, physical location address, mailing address, etc... or any combination of same. This could be an issue if these are combined, and you now, or in future need to know which is which. Just a thought... jack On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > That was my question -- 3 tables of addresses? > A Zip code lookup table can be a cool feature if someone's going to be > entering lots of addresses and repeat Zip codes. > > Susan H. > > > > > Rocky, >> Just curious, but why 3 tables? >> jack >> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > >wrote: >> >> Dear List: >>> >>> I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that >>> will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. >>> >>> Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, >>> etc., >>> fields into each table. >>> >>> Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and >>> an >>> FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 17 09:20:17 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:20:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many copies of the Runtime) 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a helping hand to you with Runtime. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the application. From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will > apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that > might be useful. > > We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. > > While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user > interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) > in the Runtime environment. > > Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From Robert at WeBeDb.com Thu Mar 17 10:19:10 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:19:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> John, You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could not do that. You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both all the time through code. I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without the parameters. In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the _1 query. The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need to know any of the SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. Robert At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 > >Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, >modify and use" because you can't >modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am >going to have to become proficient >in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the >thread above which discusses this >for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the >combos and reports. > >This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never >had to use before. Working with >parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area >that I have always wanted to learn. > Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. > >-- >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 10:30:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:30:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D822918.5050508@colbyconsulting.com> Great idea Robert! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 10:31:31 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:31:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. Just be careful with this thinking. If you distribute the MDB it can be moved to any machine which does have the full Access install and can be modified there. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 10:20 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. > > There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. > > 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many copies of the Runtime) > > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. > > If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. > > You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a helping hand to you with Runtime. > > Brad > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby > Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > > That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run > time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to > troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the > application. > > From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it > will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> John, >> >> I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will >> apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that >> might be useful. >> >> We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. >> >> While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user >> interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) >> in the Runtime environment. >> >> Brad From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 17 11:03:05 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:03:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, Good point. I had not thought of that. None of our users have a full version of Access so this is currently not an issue, but things may change down the road. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 10:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. Just be careful with this thinking. If you distribute the MDB it can be moved to any machine which does have the full Access install and can be modified there. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 10:20 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. > > There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. > > 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many copies of the Runtime) > > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. > > If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. > > You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a helping hand to you with Runtime. > > Brad > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby > Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > > That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run > time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to > troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the > application. > > From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it > will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> John, >> >> I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will >> apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that >> might be useful. >> >> We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. >> >> While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user >> interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) >> in the Runtime environment. >> >> Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Mar 17 11:25:56 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:25:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Ribbon Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709591@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have the following set up in the table USysRibbons. I thought it was supposed to hide the ribbon but all it does is remove all the tab names except home. Am I misunderstanding? RibbonName RibbonXML Menu Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 12:31:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:31:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <647831F9F306495CB40C4C7439033978@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <647831F9F306495CB40C4C7439033978@HAL9005> Message-ID: That might have been me, I gave it to several people many years ago. :) I tend to do this: tblAddress --------------- AddrID (PK) LocationName (Main Office...) Addr1 (line 1) Addr2 (line 2) Addr3 (line 3) faddr (Where I store any foreign/unhandled city, St, Zip) ZipID (Int, FK) AddrTypeID (int, FK) AddrNotes CountryID (intFK) entryDate entryUserID tblAddrZipList ------------------ ZipID (Int, PK) ZipCode (I only store the 5 digit zip, if +4 is needed, I'd store it up in tblAddress) City DefaultCity (Boolean) State (probably better idea to store StateID) TerritoryID (if needed, can also place in tblAddress if not Zipcode based) tblAdressType -------------- AddrTypeID (PK) AddrType (BillTo, ShipTo, Both...) tblAddressContactMethod (Junction Table) ------------------------ AddrCtcID (Int PK) ctcMethodID (Int FK) ctcInfo (619-555-1212, SomeGuy at Gmail.com, www.SomeAddress.com) entryDate entryUserID tblContactMethod ------------------------- ctcMethodID (Int PK) ContactMethod (Phone, Fax, Email, Website, Cell#, Some new technology that hasn't been invented yet) DisplayOrder entryDate entryUserID I usually use junction tables between tblCompany and tblAddress as a company can have multiple address and an address can have multiple businesses running out of it. I also keep all companies in one table, whether they are a customer, prospect, vendor, distributor. A simple flag/FKid can tell me what they are. I do the same with contacts and ContactMethod (as above with addresses) . HTH David On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 5:49 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I have a zip code table - can't remember where I got it - that I use in > several apps - the user can enter a zip code and the city and state are > retrieved from the zip code table. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? > > For ease of maintenance, sInce the address is directly related to the > entity, I'd put them in the entity tables. As long as you keep the address > fields standard, you can always use a UNION query to get all addresses if > you need to combine then, with a flag to identify the type of entity > > Select "C" Addres,City... from tblCompanies union Select "S" Addres,City... > from tblSocieties union Select "P" Addres,City... from tblPeople > > I also agree with Darryl, I'd try to use some form of Postcode,City, State > lookup table and only store an FK to that tree, rathe than full details of > the geographical hierarchy > > -- > Stuart > > > On 16 Mar 2011 at 21:37, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one > > is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their > > home address - even though in most cases the participant record would > > also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be > > common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity > > would be different. > > > > Rocky > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack > > drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB > > Design Question - too much normalization? > > > > Rocky, > > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > > jack > > > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > > wrote: > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > > > that will have address information. There will probably be no > > > overlap. > > > > > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main > > > fax, etc., fields into each table. > > > > > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > > > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > > > > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 12:34:16 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:34:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Release it as an ADE/MDE ;) On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 8:31 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA > code, change things, etc. > > > Just be careful with this thinking. If you distribute the MDB it can be > moved to any machine which does have the full Access install and can be > modified there. > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/17/2011 10:20 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > >> John, >> >> We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. >> >> There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. >> >> 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many >> copies of the Runtime) >> >> 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA >> code, change things, etc. >> >> If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. >> >> You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD >> which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a >> helping hand to you with Runtime. >> >> Brad >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby >> Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> >> That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to >> really fess up to using the run >> time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details >> ironed out. Trying to >> troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how >> to get feedback from the >> application. >> >> From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even >> programmatically. If it >> will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> >>> John, >>> >>> I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will >>> apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that >>> might be useful. >>> >>> We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. >>> >>> While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user >>> interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) >>> in the Runtime environment. >>> >>> Brad >>> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 13:12:36 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:12:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. And the master and child links likewise. That's part of the reason why I always used unbound forms/subforms with ADO. I realize your framework is based on bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you might expect, so I didn't go there. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to > set the subform binding properties. > > I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a > known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field > properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't > work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull records > for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset that > the subform is bound to. > > So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search > around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. > > Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form > stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere I > have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the > form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement > (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the parent > fires (new parent PKID). > > All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to ADO. > > Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO > recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the > ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets > the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. > > Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as > the DAO bound form. > > And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out a > way to fix them. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> John, >> >> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >> code that was going sideways. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>> >>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>> >>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>> linking. >>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>> are >>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 13:24:17 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:24:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: I always used a separate "phone table" with a field that described the type, including fax. It was bound to the address table and the person ID to allow for multiple phone numbers. I used a default of zero in the Person ID when the number only applied to an address and was non-specific to a person. Of course, that required a 0 Person ID in the table describing the person, but I always did that anyhow to allow for complex keys and unavailable information. I also had a field in the Address table that described type, so that it could cover a business address or a personal address. If needed, I had a one-to-one table for additional address information peculiar to a particular type. Since zip codes can belong to multiple cities or even to buildings, and cities can have multiple zip codes, I gave up on those and just stored them with the address. The USPS has zip code files, but unless you need to validate to the street address level, I wouldn't bother. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 9:16 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that > will have address information. ?There will probably be no overlap. > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., > fields into each table. > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an > FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 17 15:57:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:57:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Charlotte: If that was true why does the following not product an error? Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. And the master and child links likewise. That's part of the reason why I always used unbound forms/subforms with ADO. I realize your framework is based on bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you might expect, so I didn't go there. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to > set the subform binding properties. > > I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a > known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field > properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't > work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull records > for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset that > the subform is bound to. > > So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search > around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. > > Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form > stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere I > have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the > form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement > (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the parent > fires (new parent PKID). > > All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to ADO. > > Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO > recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the > ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets > the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. > > Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as > the DAO bound form. > > And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out a > way to fix them. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> John, >> >> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >> code that was going sideways. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>> >>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>> >>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>> linking. >>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>> are >>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 16:23:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 17:23:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D827BC1.2040005@colbyconsulting.com> Jim, She didn't say .Clone doesn't exist, she said it functions differently from the DAO Recordsetclone. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 4:57 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Charlotte: > > If that was true why does the following not product an error? > > > Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset > > Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and > Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. And the master > and child links likewise. That's part of the reason why I always used > unbound forms/subforms with ADO. I realize your framework is based on > bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable > binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you > might expect, so I didn't go there. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >> In my framework I do JIT subforms. Part of the JIT subform process is to >> set the subform binding properties. >> >> I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. It appears that it is a >> known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field >> properties of a subform bound to ADO. Broken, throws an error, doesn't >> work, no fix. The work around is to filter the subform to only pull > records >> for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset > that >> the subform is bound to. >> >> So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search >> around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. >> >> Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form >> stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. And in there somewhere > I >> have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the >> form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement >> (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the > parent >> fires (new parent PKID). >> >> All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to > ADO. >> >> Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO >> recordset. I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the >> ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets >> the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. >> >> Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as >> the DAO bound form. >> >> And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out > a >> way to fix them. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >>> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >>> subform with ADO. Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >>> code that was going sideways. >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>>> >>>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>>> >>>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>>> linking. >>>> It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>>> are >>>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 18:46:24 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 16:46:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: The recordset produced by recordset.clone is not the same as the recordsetclone. If you modify RecordsetClone, the change is reflected in the recordset. When you create a recordset using clone, the original and the clone do not interact in that way, or at least they didn't in the versions of Access with which I actually worked (through 2002). Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Charlotte: > > If that was true why does the following not product an error? > > > Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset > > Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and > Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. ?And the master > and child links likewise. ?That's part of the reason why I always used > unbound forms/subforms with ADO. ?I realize your framework is based on > bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable > binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you > might expect, so I didn't go there. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >> In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to >> set the subform binding properties. >> >> I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a >> known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field >> properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't >> work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull > records >> for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset > that >> the subform is bound to. >> >> So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search >> around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. >> >> Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form >> stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere > I >> have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the >> form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement >> (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the > parent >> fires (new parent PKID). >> >> All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to > ADO. >> >> Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO >> recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the >> ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets >> the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. >> >> Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as >> the DAO bound form. >> >> And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out > a >> way to fix them. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >>> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >>> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >>> code that was going sideways. >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >>> ?wrote: >>>> >>>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>>> >>>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>>> >>>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>>> linking. >>>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>>> are >>>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 18 05:57:34 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 03:57:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Charlotte: It appears that I may have never actually used this recordsetclone, never knew the function existed and now I will never have an opportunity to use it again. For that reason I was confused and thought you were discussing recordset.clone. It is sad to know some poor function died before I had a chance to abuse it. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error The recordset produced by recordset.clone is not the same as the recordsetclone. If you modify RecordsetClone, the change is reflected in the recordset. When you create a recordset using clone, the original and the clone do not interact in that way, or at least they didn't in the versions of Access with which I actually worked (through 2002). Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Charlotte: > > If that was true why does the following not product an error? > > > Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset > > Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and > Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. ?And the master > and child links likewise. ?That's part of the reason why I always used > unbound forms/subforms with ADO. ?I realize your framework is based on > bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable > binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you > might expect, so I didn't go there. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >> In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to >> set the subform binding properties. >> >> I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a >> known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field >> properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't >> work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull > records >> for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset > that >> the subform is bound to. >> >> So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search >> around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. >> >> Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form >> stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere > I >> have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the >> form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement >> (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the > parent >> fires (new parent PKID). >> >> All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to > ADO. >> >> Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO >> recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the >> ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets >> the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. >> >> Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as >> the DAO bound form. >> >> And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out > a >> way to fix them. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >>> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >>> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >>> code that was going sideways. >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >>> ?wrote: >>>> >>>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>>> >>>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>>> >>>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>>> linking. >>>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>>> are >>>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 07:04:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:04:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D834A33.1030607@colbyconsulting.com> Robert, Are you using bound forms? Does anyone know how to compare binding to pass through query as opposed to binding to ADO recordset? It seems that binding to a pass-through would leave me in DAO which my framework supports already. Binding to an ADO recordset leaves me in ADO. It is totally unclear to me what goes on in either case "behind the scenes" pulling records from SQL Server, updating the records, updating back to SQL Server and so forth. In a few months or so I will have a better idea of what actually happens but it is tough to make design decisions without already knowing this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 07:18:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D834D8C.4040806@colbyconsulting.com> Robert, What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It immediately asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any time I do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. Am I missing something? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 07:29:47 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:29:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> Robert, From my reading, pass through queries are always returned in a snapshot which makes them non-updateable? These would work great for combos and such but not for bound editable forms correct? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From delam at zyterra.com Fri Mar 18 08:05:21 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:05:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Ribbon In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709591@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709591@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <0651A8A6-C1D3-44BE-810A-E3ABE33D6183@zyterra.com> Best I can see that should do it, however it may want something in it's place rather than a totally blank slate. Personally I have never left it completely blank. Debbie. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 17, 2011, at 11:25 AM, "Kaup, Chester" wrote: > I have the following set up in the table USysRibbons. I thought it > was supposed to hide the ribbon but all it does is remove all the > tab names except home. Am I misunderstanding? > > RibbonName RibbonXML > Menu "http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/01/customui"> > > > > > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Mar 18 10:50:38 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 07:50:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D834D8C.4040806@colbyconsulting.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> <4D834D8C.4040806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D837F4E.8060103@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John In farting around learning SQl Server. At the moment very simply I use For a pass-through query - QryMatrixGrp Dim qdfPassMatrix as QueryDef On form open Set qdfPassMatrix=db.QueryDefs("QryMatrixGrp") qdfPassMatrix.Connect = "Your Connect String" Hope this helps jwcolby wrote: > Robert, > > What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? > > I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it > pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It > immediately asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for > the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user > name / password any time I do anything with that query or the form > that is bound to that query. > > Am I missing something? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > >> John, >> >> You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure >> where you got the idea you could >> not do that. >> You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and >> queries can be modified. I do both >> all the time >> through code. >> >> I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). >> The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case >> of a passthrough query, without >> the parameters. >> In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or >> parameters, then replace the SQL in the >> _1 query. >> The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. >> >> By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or >> parameters, it does not need >> to know any of the >> SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the >> code. >> >> I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and >> Access 2010 with this methodology. >> >> Robert >> >> >> At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> >>> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >>> From: jwcolby >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> >>> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >>> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>> >>> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >>> >>> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, >>> modify and use" because you can't >>> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am >>> going to have to become proficient >>> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the >>> thread above which discusses this >>> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the >>> combos and reports. >>> >>> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never >>> had to use before. Working with >>> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area >>> that I have always wanted to learn. >>> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Mar 18 11:00:01 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:00:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D838181.40005@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John Correct as to what I found out/read so far. Combos, list boxes, reports and read only forms. jwcolby wrote: > Robert, > > From my reading, pass through queries are always returned in a > snapshot which makes them non-updateable? These would work great for > combos and such but not for bound editable forms correct? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > >> John, >> >> You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure >> where you got the idea you could >> not do that. >> You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and >> queries can be modified. I do both >> all the time >> through code. >> >> I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). >> The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case >> of a passthrough query, without >> the parameters. >> In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or >> parameters, then replace the SQL in the >> _1 query. >> The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. >> >> By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or >> parameters, it does not need >> to know any of the >> SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the >> code. >> >> I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and >> Access 2010 with this methodology. >> >> Robert >> >> >> At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> >>> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >>> From: jwcolby >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> >>> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >>> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>> >>> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >>> >>> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, >>> modify and use" because you can't >>> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am >>> going to have to become proficient >>> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the >>> thread above which discusses this >>> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the >>> combos and reports. >>> >>> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never >>> had to use before. Working with >>> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area >>> that I have always wanted to learn. >>> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 10:39:02 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 11:39:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D838181.40005@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> <4D838181.40005@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D837C96.9030806@colbyconsulting.com> It's slowly starting to work... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 12:00 PM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey John > Correct as to what I found out/read so far. Combos, list boxes, reports and read only forms. > > jwcolby wrote: > >> Robert, >> >> From my reading, pass through queries are always returned in a snapshot which makes them >> non-updateable? These would work great for combos and such but not for bound editable forms correct? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: >> >>> John, >>> >>> You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could >>> not do that. >>> You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both >>> all the time >>> through code. >>> >>> I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). >>> The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without >>> the parameters. >>> In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the >>> _1 query. >>> The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. >>> >>> By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need >>> to know any of the >>> SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. >>> >>> I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this >>> methodology. >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> >>> At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >>> >>>> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >>>> From: jwcolby >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> >>>> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >>>> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>>> >>>> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >>>> >>>> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >>>> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >>>> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >>>> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >>>> >>>> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >>>> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to >>>> learn. >>>> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 11:14:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:14:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near Message-ID: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 I modified it to add the table name. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. The following compiles and runs in sql server SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can filter the result set to only a specific set of records. When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 18 12:42:03 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:42:03 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John -- According to the common usage style It would be more correct to write : SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) T1 WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but you can often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) - and you'll be safe & you'll reach the richness.. :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 I modified it to add the table name. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. The following compiles and runs in sql server SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can filter the result set to only a specific set of records. When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 14:29:02 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:29:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> Yep. I am generating the SQL in Access and I test the SQL in a query in Access, where it worked just fine. It is only when trying to give the SQL to an ado recordset object and have that object ask SQL Server for the data that the problem reared its ugly head. It took me a few minutes of head scratching to figure it out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 1:42 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi John -- > > According to the common usage style It would be more correct to write : > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) T1 > WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but you can > often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) - and you'll be safe& you'll reach > the richness.. :) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near > > The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. > > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE > PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I modified it to add the table name. > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE > tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. > > PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. > > The following compiles and runs in sql server > > SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE > tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the outer > statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner sql statement > and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can filter the result > set to only a specific set of records. > > When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. I > thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, discover that > PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. > > If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query window, > it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a swearword as the > alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). > > Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) AS T1 > WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri Mar 18 14:55:39 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:55:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: "I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple in my life, it makes no difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. I understand what goes in each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to 3rd normal. I have read many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood (at the time I read it) *some* of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric." -- JWC LOL. I'm sure I told this story before, but about a decade ago, when I started working for my current employer, I started going back to college. Took an MIS class (Managing Information Services). First day of the class, I was sitting in the back, here I am, 28 years old, with a bunch of people that probably couldn't order a beer. The teacher starts going into the internet, and TCP/IP. Just going over basic stuff. He then goes over a very basic description of an IP address, and asks if anyone knew why each quad of an IP address had values from only 0 to 255. I looked around, no one was answering, so I raised my hand. The professor called on me, and I said 'Because that's 8 bits, or a byte'. Wow, the class looked at me like a herd of deer mesmerized by headlights! LOL. I never studied for any of the tests, and I don't remember if there was homework or not (I would have done the homework if there was some). I always got an A on the tests. This stuff was SOOO far below my level of understanding it wasn't funny, but it was a required course that I couldn't test out of. On one of the tests the question was: What would a relational database developer refer to as a row of data? So here I am, taking this test, and employeed full time as a programmer/developer (with a relational database), and so I answered 'record' (I think it might have been row). Tuple was in the list of answers, but honestly, I hadn't read that chapter in the book. So when I got my test back, it was the only question I had wrong, so I went and asked the instructor. His response was basically 'the book answer is tuple'. I had to laugh at that, because the book also described Widnows 95 and Windows 98 as 'different Operating Systems', which the teacher pointed out in class is 'technically' incorrect. Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Fri Mar 18 15:09:11 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:09:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BB@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> In Access 2003 if you go to Tools, Options in the Tables/Queries tab is an option for SQL Server Compatible Syntax (ANSI 92). I've never played with the setting - but maybe if you had that option turned on, your generated SQL from Access would work as is in SQL Server via ado? HTH, Rusty -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 2:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near Yep. I am generating the SQL in Access and I test the SQL in a query in Access, where it worked just fine. It is only when trying to give the SQL to an ado recordset object and have that object ask SQL Server for the data that the problem reared its ugly head. It took me a few minutes of head scratching to figure it out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 1:42 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi John -- > > According to the common usage style It would be more correct to write : > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > T1 WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but > you can often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) - and you'll be safe& > you'll reach the richness.. :) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near > > The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. > > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I modified it to add the table name. > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. > > PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. > > The following compiles and runs in sql server > > SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE > tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the > outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner > sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can > filter the result set to only a specific set of records. > > When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. > I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, > discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. > > If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query > window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a > swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). > > Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 15:21:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:21:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D83BEBB.2090408@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. Yep, and the strange part of that whole thread is that I have studied all that stuff, though not necessarily all of it in a classroom. I know tuple and relation but it simply isn't used anywhere in the (non-academic) world so why cling to it? All it appears to do is provide a false sense of superiority. If you happen to work at a university and need to discuss these terms on a daily basis with an 80 year old professor who learned that stuff and refuses to use modern terms, then I guess they would be relevant. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 3:55 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > "I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple > in my life, it makes no > difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. > I understand what goes in > each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to > 3rd normal. I have read > many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood > (at the time I read it) *some* > of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric." -- JWC > > LOL. I'm sure I told this story before, but about a decade ago, when I > started working for my current employer, I started going back to > college. Took an MIS class (Managing Information Services). > > First day of the class, I was sitting in the back, here I am, 28 years > old, with a bunch of people that probably couldn't order a beer. The > teacher starts going into the internet, and TCP/IP. Just going over > basic stuff. He then goes over a very basic description of an IP > address, and asks if anyone knew why each quad of an IP address had > values from only 0 to 255. I looked around, no one was answering, so I > raised my hand. The professor called on me, and I said 'Because that's > 8 bits, or a byte'. Wow, the class looked at me like a herd of deer > mesmerized by headlights! LOL. > > I never studied for any of the tests, and I don't remember if there was > homework or not (I would have done the homework if there was some). I > always got an A on the tests. This stuff was SOOO far below my level of > understanding it wasn't funny, but it was a required course that I > couldn't test out of. On one of the tests the question was: > > What would a relational database developer refer to as a row of data? > > So here I am, taking this test, and employeed full time as a > programmer/developer (with a relational database), and so I answered > 'record' (I think it might have been row). Tuple was in the list of > answers, but honestly, I hadn't read that chapter in the book. > > So when I got my test back, it was the only question I had wrong, so I > went and asked the instructor. His response was basically 'the book > answer is tuple'. I had to laugh at that, because the book also > described Widnows 95 and Windows 98 as 'different Operating Systems', > which the teacher pointed out in class is 'technically' incorrect. > > Drew > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > From edzedz at comcast.net Fri Mar 18 18:09:30 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:09:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Message-ID: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Fri Mar 18 18:19:19 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:19:19 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <5614BB72A898456981BE3B79A3BF4D60@stevelaptop> Ed, As far as I am aware, this is simply not possible. You can't establish an ODBC connection from Access to Access. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Edward Zuris Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 12:09 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. From robert at servicexp.com Fri Mar 18 18:33:58 2011 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:33:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: HTPC Command Line Parsing Problem In-Reply-To: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <000c01cbe5c4$f5f78060$e1e68120$@com> Ok, I have been fighting with this for a while now, and just can't seem to come up with a solution Enviroment: Windows Command Line Batch Process Back Ground: My WMC7 HTPC records shows to a folder, from there I have a program called WatchDirectory trigger a batch file for show processing. The batch file logic looks in a SHOWPARMS.txt text file for the show name, and returns to the batch file it's processing parameters. I have the basic framework up and running. Inside SHOWPARMS.txt Example: Glenn;True;"";"C:\VideoCaptures\GlennBeck";False;"";False;False Returns: True;"";"C:\VideoCaptures\GlennBeck";False;"";False;False Batch File Commands So Far: set SEARCHNAME=%WD_FILE_B:~0,4% :find from left to right the row that matches the first 4 characters :: Get the Show Params for /f "tokens=2-9 delims=;" %%A in ('findstr /b /i "%SEARCHNAME%" "C:\SyncFiles\Bat Files\SHOWPARMS.txt"') do ( set sQSF=%%A set sCOM=%%B set sPAT=%%C set sRAR=%%D set sUPL=%%E set sSFV=%%F set sDEL=%%G ) Problem: I need to parse the string backwards from the first "-" (I think). So if a show name is less the 4 characters the batch would still find it in the text file. So code would not only find this string using "Glen" or "Glenn" In "Glenn Beck-" or "GlennBeck-" (Which currently works) but would also need to find "V" in "V-" (currently the show would be missed due to the < 4 characters show name.) Then "-" after the show name is always there. Objective: To make the search string length variable (I think), and not based on the current limited 4 character requirement. To find the "-" after the show name and match as many characters as possible. (I think). ;) Any ideas how I can pull this off? From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 18 18:41:40 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:41:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <5614BB72A898456981BE3B79A3BF4D60@stevelaptop> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1>, <5614BB72A898456981BE3B79A3BF4D60@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <4D83EDB4.3389.6C0AAC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Correct. Trying to do so generates a 3423 error: "You cannot use ODBC to import from, export to, or link an external Microsoft Jet or ISAM database table to your database." -- Stuart On 19 Mar 2011 at 12:19, Steve Schapel wrote: > Ed, > > As far as I am aware, this is simply not possible. You can't > establish an ODBC connection from Access to Access. > > Regards > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Edward Zuris > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 12:09 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access > > > Hello Everyone, > > It has been awhile. > > I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source > and then link tables into another Access database. > > I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, > but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for > Access 2000, or Access 2003. > > Any suggestions on how to do that ? > > Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? > > Thanks. > > Sincerely, > Ed Zuris. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 18 19:26:30 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:26:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <000f01cbe5cc$4e10e410$ea32ac30$@comcast.net> Instead of ODBC, can you use the IN keyword? Dim stgFullPath as string Dim stgSQL as string stgFullPath = "//Server/Folder/DataTables.mdb" stgSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblMain IN '" & stgFullPath & "'" _ & " WHERE ID = 1" I use this frequently - avoids table links between access files, and performs well. HTH! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 6:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From edzedz at comcast.net Fri Mar 18 22:43:01 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:43:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <000f01cbe5cc$4e10e410$ea32ac30$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000001cbe5e7$c1434b10$5bdea8c0@edz1> Thanks. That idea works. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 5:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Instead of ODBC, can you use the IN keyword? Dim stgFullPath as string Dim stgSQL as string stgFullPath = "//Server/Folder/DataTables.mdb" stgSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblMain IN '" & stgFullPath & "'" _ & " WHERE ID = 1" I use this frequently - avoids table links between access files, and performs well. HTH! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 6:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 23:56:12 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 21:56:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BB@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BB@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: Trust me, you ALWAYS have to test SQL in SQL Server if you're going to use it there. At my last job, our apps ran against either SQL Server or Access back ends, so every SQL statement built in code had to be checked against both environments and we had to branch the code where the versions of SQL differed in their behavior. Charlotte Foust On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Rusty Hammond wrote: > In Access 2003 if you go to Tools, Options in the Tables/Queries tab is > an option for SQL Server Compatible Syntax (ANSI 92). ?I've never played > with the setting - but maybe if you had that option turned on, your > generated SQL from Access would work as is in SQL Server via ado? > > HTH, > > Rusty > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 2:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near > > Yep. ?I am generating the SQL in Access and I test the SQL in a query in > Access, where it worked just fine. ?It is only when trying to give the > SQL to an ado recordset object and have that object ask SQL Server for > the data that the problem reared its ugly head. > > It took me a few minutes of head scratching to figure it out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/18/2011 1:42 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: >> Hi John -- >> >> According to the common usage style It would be more correct to ?write > : >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> T1 WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but >> you can often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) ?- and you'll be safe& >> you'll reach the richness.. :) >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >> Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near >> >> The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. >> >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> I modified it to add the table name. >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. >> >> PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. >> >> The following compiles and runs in sql server >> >> SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?WHERE >> tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the >> outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner >> sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can > >> filter the result set to only a specific set of records. >> >> When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. > >> I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, >> discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. >> >> If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query >> window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. ?It does give me a >> swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in > Access). >> >> Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 19 08:24:54 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:24:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note Message-ID: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sat Mar 19 09:06:35 2011 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 14:06:35 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0FD11B4C294B4099B2AE2CCC86D2369D@MINSTER> Can we have that in English? Andy -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 19 March 2011 13:25 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at servicexp.com Sat Mar 19 09:26:46 2011 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:26:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000901cbe641$b09e7af0$11db70d0$@com> Not too bad, make sure you dl Titanium Backup W/Root in the marketplace .. Fantastic backup program.. ;) Now that you're rooted (s-Off), the sky's the limit on what you can do with your phone now. Have Fun.. WBR Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 09:49:32 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 07:49:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. I just upgraded my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. What a process! Charlotte On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the > bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at my house > I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad > considering it is over cell. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 19 09:54:22 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:54:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <000901cbe641$b09e7af0$11db70d0$@com> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <000901cbe641$b09e7af0$11db70d0$@com> Message-ID: <4D84C39E.6020109@colbyconsulting.com> Z4Mod is what I used to do the root. It is pretty cool, allowing me to root / modify / unroot very easily! I am using the free Bloat Freezer to freeze apps. It seems this makes for simpler upgrades in the future? I am still trying to discover what is really useful to freeze. Mostly I just wanted to get rid of the obvious crapware like CityID and AmazonMP3. And of course set up the tether. My problem right now is that the tether doesn't give me an encryption scheme that matches Vista so I can't lock the tether which kinda sucks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/19/2011 10:26 AM, Robert wrote: > Not too bad, make sure you dl Titanium Backup W/Root in the marketplace .. > Fantastic backup program.. ;) Now that you're rooted (s-Off), the sky's the > limit on what you can do with your phone now. > > Have Fun.. > > WBR > Robert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the > bloatware, and downloaded > and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down > and .5 mbit up via the > tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 12:10:24 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:10:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note Message-ID: Hopefully Verizon doesn't follow at&t. They sent text messages and email to jailbroken iPhones that were tethering, saying that they need to add tethering to their plan. Sent from my Droid phone. On Mar 19, 2011 7:55 AM, "jwcolby" wrote: From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 19 14:50:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:50:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps Message-ID: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 19:28:38 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 17:28:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Useful to me, personally? GasBuddy, Mileage, MissingSync, DocumentsToGo, FliqCalendar and FliqNotes (sync with Outlook), Extended Controls, Expense Tracker. Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:50 PM, jwcolby wrote: > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From robert at servicexp.com Sat Mar 19 19:29:22 2011 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:29:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000001cbe695$dd5a9d90$980fd8b0$@com> Google Nav. & Maps Remote Desktop AndFTP QuickOffice Astro RealCalc Elec. Wiring Pro Area & Volume ES File Explorer FeedR IMDb CadreBible ... are the programs I seem to use the most. Some others include: Dictionary Bank Of America App Flixster Calorie Counter The UnderGround Remote Media Center ..etc.. ;) WBR Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 21:59:33 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 19:59:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <000001cbe695$dd5a9d90$980fd8b0$@com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cbe695$dd5a9d90$980fd8b0$@com> Message-ID: I also use AT&T Navigator when I don't have my big gps with me and I use both the Amazon Kindle reader and the Nook reader on my phone. Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Robert wrote: > Google Nav. & Maps > Remote Desktop > AndFTP > QuickOffice > Astro > RealCalc > Elec. Wiring Pro > Area & Volume > ES File Explorer > FeedR > IMDb > CadreBible > > ... are the programs I seem to use the most. > > Some others include: > > Dictionary > Bank Of America App > Flixster > Calorie Counter > The UnderGround > Remote Media Center > > ..etc.. ;) > > > WBR > Robert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 22:03:22 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:03:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, what's wrong with that??? You got to use the technology! LOL Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:10 AM, David McAfee wrote: > Hopefully Verizon doesn't follow at&t. They sent text messages and email to > jailbroken iPhones that were tethering, saying that they need to add > tethering to their plan. > > Sent from my Droid phone. > On Mar 19, 2011 7:55 AM, "jwcolby" wrote: > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 00:26:57 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 22:26:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note Message-ID: IMO it is stupid. I mean if you are paying for unlimited minutes, who cares how you use them? Sent from my Droid phone. On Mar 19, 2011 8:04 PM, "Charlotte Foust" wrote: From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun Mar 20 06:39:32 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 22:39:32 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <201103201139.p2KBdksT023637@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Dropbox. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby [jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 6:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 12:20:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:20:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Message-ID: Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 12:23:36 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:23:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 12:44:14 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:44:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <1370177E6BEB484F824E2304AF853FED@HAL9005> Never mind. I figured it out. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sun Mar 20 12:50:13 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 20:50:13 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 13:14:16 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 11:14:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> <66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> Message-ID: <926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> It's in the after update of an option frame where the user picks one of two subforms. But I got it to work. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sun Mar 20 14:49:05 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 22:49:05 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005><66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> <926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> Message-ID: <36FB6626070E45EE8DC95FCDD76352AC@nant> Hi Rocky -- Yes, I have seen from your other message that you've solved the issue. It could have been that subform has had "Dirty = True" when you tried to change its recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 21:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source It's in the after update of an option frame where the user picks one of two subforms. But I got it to work. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 16:42:11 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:42:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <36FB6626070E45EE8DC95FCDD76352AC@nant> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005><66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant><926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> <36FB6626070E45EE8DC95FCDD76352AC@nant> Message-ID: <5EFBBB3C31144D259CDD77B043CD2F96@HAL9005> Shamil: I had about 4 other things wrong with that form and code - but got them all straightened out. Final code is: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = _ "Select * FROM tblProductionRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " _ & Val(Nz(Me.cboPanelDefID.Column(0))) Ans takes care of the problem of the user not selecting a record from the cboPanelDef combo box - the subform then has zero records. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 12:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- Yes, I have seen from your other message that you've solved the issue. It could have been that subform has had "Dirty = True" when you tried to change its recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 21:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source It's in the after update of an option frame where the user picks one of two subforms. But I got it to work. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun Mar 20 20:05:35 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:05:35 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Howdy It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same way the Yanks do... That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- "I rooted my droid X last night" Hmm - And then Charlottes response:- "I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. Andy - Comments please. Snigger -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. I just upgraded my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. What a process! Charlotte On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all > the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at > my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not > bad considering it is over cell. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 20:12:26 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:12:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely NOT what it means here! Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone > (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same > way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung > from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >> bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun Mar 20 20:29:01 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:29:01 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <019901cbe767$5ca89170$15f9b450$@activebilling.com.au> Insert little boy snigger here Ok - Nothing to see here folks - nothing to see here ...move along, move along -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely NOT what it means here! Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a > phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not > the same way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my > Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here >> at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. >> Not bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun Mar 20 20:46:30 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:46:30 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely NOT what it means here! Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone > (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same > way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung > from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >> bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Mar 20 21:02:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:02:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> References: , <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for > you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: > > Howdy > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' > > a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not > > the same way the Yanks do... > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > Andy - Comments please. > > Snigger > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my > > Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > Charlotte > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > wrote: > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the > >> tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 23:43:22 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 21:43:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Lush as an adjective means the same thing here. Lush used as a noun is what you're thinking of. Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather unnerving. ?and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... ?Another one is "Lush". ?Lush to may Aussies is short for Lusicous or delicious. ?Probably not such a good pick up line to approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush tonight. ?aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > Here, now! ?This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! ?I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: >> Howdy >> It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone >> (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. >> Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same >> way the Yanks do... >> >> That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- >> ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" >> Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- >> ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" >> Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. >> Andy - Comments please. >> Snigger >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >> Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note >> >> I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung >> from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! >> >> Charlotte >> >> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby >> wrote: >>> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >>> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >>> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >>> bad considering it is over cell. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon Mar 21 00:13:32 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:13:32 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103210513.p2L5Dd00017041@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ hahaha, I am not sure how successful I would be trying to explain the semantics of that to the tipsy (and now offended) 'woman at the bar' when she gives me a filthy look in response. :) However, I will keep that in mind just in case! cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 3:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note Lush as an adjective means the same thing here. Lush used as a noun is what you're thinking of. Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather unnerving. ?and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... ?Another one is "Lush". ?Lush to may Aussies is short for Lusicous or delicious. ?Probably not such a good pick up line to approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush tonight. ?aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > Here, now! ?This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! ?I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: >> Howdy >> It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone >> (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. >> Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same >> way the Yanks do... >> >> That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- >> ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" >> Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- >> ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" >> Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. >> Andy - Comments please. >> Snigger >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >> Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note >> >> I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung >> from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! >> >> Charlotte >> >> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby >> wrote: >>> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >>> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >>> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >>> bad considering it is over cell. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From darren at activebilling.com.au Mon Mar 21 00:18:38 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:18:38 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <020e01cbe787$70afc600$520f5200$@activebilling.com.au> Gold - I laughed out loud at this one :-) (Still don't know what the U.S. version of rooting a phone means - I really do want to know) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for > you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: > > Howdy > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' > > a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not > > the same way the Yanks do... > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > Andy - Comments please. > > Snigger > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my > > Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > Charlotte > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > wrote: > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the > >> tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Mar 21 00:27:18 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:27:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <020e01cbe787$70afc600$520f5200$@activebilling.com.au> References: , <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <020e01cbe787$70afc600$520f5200$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4D86E1B6.10271.61E090@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/04/15/rooting-explained-top-5-benefits-of-rooting-your- android-phone/ First, for the newbies, let me clarify what rooting is. Getting root or rooting your phone is the process of modifying the operating system on your device to grant you complete control over it. This means you can overcome limitations that the carriers and manufacturers put on your phone, extend system functionality, and even upgrade it to a custom flavor of Android. The name root comes from the Linux operating system world, where the most privileged user on the system (otherwise known as Administrator on Windows) is called root. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 16:18, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Gold - I laughed out loud at this one :-) > (Still don't know what the U.S. version of rooting a phone means - I > really do want to know) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 1:02 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. > > -- > Stuart > > On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the > > bottom of this message. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting > > for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these > > things. > > > > cheers > > Darryl. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I > > know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's > > definitely NOT what it means here! > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > > wrote: > > > Howdy > > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as > > > 'rooting' a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in > > > Australia. Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. > > > Perhaps not the same way the Yanks do... > > > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > > Andy - Comments please. > > > Snigger > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access > > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > > > On a lighter note > > > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded > > > my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > > > Charlotte > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > > wrote: > > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via > > >> the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> John W. Colby > > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by > > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon Mar 21 00:36:56 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:36:56 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D86E1B6.10271.61E090@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201103210537.p2L5b3oU030569@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ >From memory the term root comes from the concept of an (upside down) tree (directory tree to be precise). Where the base of all things is the root. Thus "Root Directory" being the master access directory etc. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 4:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/04/15/rooting-explained-top-5-benefits-of-rooting-your- android-phone/ First, for the newbies, let me clarify what rooting is. Getting root or rooting your phone is the process of modifying the operating system on your device to grant you complete control over it. This means you can overcome limitations that the carriers and manufacturers put on your phone, extend system functionality, and even upgrade it to a custom flavor of Android. The name root comes from the Linux operating system world, where the most privileged user on the system (otherwise known as Administrator on Windows) is called root. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 16:18, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Gold - I laughed out loud at this one :-) > (Still don't know what the U.S. version of rooting a phone means - I > really do want to know) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 1:02 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. > > -- > Stuart > > On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the > > bottom of this message. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting > > for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these > > things. > > > > cheers > > Darryl. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I > > know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's > > definitely NOT what it means here! > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > > wrote: > > > Howdy > > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as > > > 'rooting' a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in > > > Australia. Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. > > > Perhaps not the same way the Yanks do... > > > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > > Andy - Comments please. > > > Snigger > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access > > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > > > On a lighter note > > > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded > > > my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > > > Charlotte > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > > wrote: > > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via > > >> the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> John W. Colby > > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by > > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Mon Mar 21 07:54:04 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:54:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root my phone to use it. Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, home computer - have access to my notes anywhere -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 09:01:22 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:01:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: I was watching a home gardening show this weekend and one person tells the other "tug on it a little" or "give me a little tug". The host, who is Australian, said "that would mean something completely different in Australia " :) Sent from my Droid phone. On Mar 20, 2011 6:07 PM, "Darren - Active Billing" < darren at activebilling.com.au> wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone > (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same > way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > "I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm - And then Charlottes response:- > "I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. I just upgraded my Samsung > from Eclair to Froyo last night. What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at >> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >> bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Robert at WeBeDb.com Mon Mar 21 10:30:43 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:30:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <443C0DB8-9EF4-47E2-A9BF-758E2CD9BDDD@holly.arvixe.com> No, I do not bind to a pass through except in the case of a combobox or report. If you bind to a pass through, it is not editable. So, I only bind to them to things that I would not be editing. I use views for all my binding. Having also been and am a SQL Server DBA, I do not allow direct access to the SQL tables. At 07:04 AM 3/18/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:04:03 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D834A33.1030607 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Robert, > >Are you using bound forms? > >Does anyone know how to compare binding to pass through query as >opposed to binding to ADO recordset? > >It seems that binding to a pass-through would leave me in DAO which >my framework supports already. >Binding to an ADO recordset leaves me in ADO. It is totally unclear >to me what goes on in either >case "behind the scenes" pulling records from SQL Server, updating >the records, updating back to SQL >Server and so forth. In a few months or so I will have a better >idea of what actually happens but >it is tough to make design decisions without already knowing this stuff. From Robert at WeBeDb.com Mon Mar 21 10:51:48 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:51:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is a property in the design view, ODBC Connect String. My local development copy looks something like this: ODBC;DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=tg9078;UID=sa;PWD=monkey;DATABASE=WWCI_Master_Data Once that is filled in, you should not get any more hits asking you for that info. At 09:27 AM 3/19/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D834D8C.4040806 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Robert, > >What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? > >I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made >it pass-through by changing the >sql specific to pass through. It immediately asked me for a dsn, >and when I gave it one it asked me >for the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / >user name / password any time I >do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. > >Am I missing something? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon Mar 21 11:13:35 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:13:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PPT to Video In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com>, , <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au>, Message-ID: I've been searching for a decent PowerPoint to video converter so as to burn some DVDs of some PowerPoint marketing material. So far the free stuff yeilds crappy results and the trial stuff isn't much better. Does anyone have a suggestion of something free or inexpensive that yeilds high quality results? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From kismert at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 11:18:30 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:18:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime Message-ID: John, This got me curious about how I do this, so I did some rooting around. First, I find the DSN-less ODBC connect string for my SQL Server connection. My example: ODBC;Driver={SQL Server};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; For SQL Server 2008, you will need to install the SQL Server Native Client. For this, the connect string would be: ODBC;Driver={SQL Server Native Client 10.0};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; The native client will connect to all SQL Server instances from version 2000 on up. You can easily connect Access 2000 to SQL Server 2008 in this manner. Note: for TableDefs, Access conveniently mangles the connect string, so I keep the correct one in a VBA constant. Then I just make a SQL Pass-Through query, and paste the connect string in the ODBC Connect Str property. Put in your SQL, and save. My experience is that the connect string is stable, and doesn't need to be changed, even when you modify the query's SQL. You can also make a table that is direct-linked to SQL server with the same ODBC connect string. This may be easier in later versions of Access, but in 2000, you need code. The following requires a reference to ADOX (ADO Ext. 2.8 for DDL and Security): ' Adds a linked External table ' ' Parameters: ' sProviderString - ADO Provider string (can be ODBC Connect string) ' sSourceTbl - Source table name (provider) ' sLinkTblName - Link table name (local) ' bSavePassword - True: Set "Cache Link Name/Password" property ' ' Adapted from Visual Basic Programmer's Guide: Data Access Components ' http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/office/office2000/proddocs/opg/part3/ch14.mspx ' Public Sub CreateLinkedExternalTable(sProviderString As String, _ sSourceTbl As String, _ sLinkTblName As String, _ Optional bSavePassword As Boolean = False) Dim rCatalog As ADOX.Catalog Dim rTable As ADOX.Table On Error GoTo HandleErr ' Get current Catalog Set rCatalog = CurrentCatalog Set rTable = New ADOX.Table With rTable ' Name the new Table and set its ParentCatalog property to the ' open Catalog to allow access to the Properties collection. .Name = sLinkTblName Set .ParentCatalog = rCatalog ' Set the properties to create the link. .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Create Link") = True .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Link Provider String") = sProviderString .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Remote Table Name") = sSourceTbl If bSavePassword Then .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Cache Link Name/Password") = True End If End With ' Append the table to the Tables collection. rCatalog.Tables.Append rTable Set rCatalog = Nothing Exit Sub HandleErr: Err.Raise Err.Number, "CreateLinkedExternalTable" & VbCrLf & Err.Description End Sub With this, you can write normal, non-pass-through select queries against the table, and use it in DAO code with it just like any other TableDef. I wouldn't go crazy with multi-ODBC-table joins, though. Alas, you can't write normal update, insert or delete queries against an ODBC tabledef, as the underlying recordset is not updateable. For that, you will need the aforementioned ODBC Pass-through queries, and use some method for storing the base SQL like Robert's. You can call stored procedures this way, but for that, I would recommend using ADO, setting the parameters in code, and calling the procedure directly. -Ken ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving < > accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > Robert, > > What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? > > I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it > pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It immediately > asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for the user name / > password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any > time I do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. > > Am I missing something? > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 11:52:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:52:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D878265.9020102@colbyconsulting.com> Thanks Ken. I am slowly getting this sorted. I will try and write up what I am doing once I get it all figured out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 12:18 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > John, > > This got me curious about how I do this, so I did some rooting around. > > First, I find the DSN-less ODBC connect string for my SQL Server connection. > My example: > > ODBC;Driver={SQL > Server};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; > > For SQL Server 2008, you will need to install the SQL Server Native Client. > For this, the connect string would be: > > ODBC;Driver={SQL Server Native Client > 10.0};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; > > The native client will connect to all SQL Server instances from version 2000 > on up. You can easily connect Access 2000 to SQL Server 2008 in this manner. > > Note: for TableDefs, Access conveniently mangles the connect string, so I > keep the correct one in a VBA constant. > > Then I just make a SQL Pass-Through query, and paste the connect string in > the ODBC Connect Str property. Put in your SQL, and save. > > My experience is that the connect string is stable, and doesn't need to be > changed, even when you modify the query's SQL. > > You can also make a table that is direct-linked to SQL server with the same > ODBC connect string. This may be easier in later versions of Access, but in > 2000, you need code. The following requires a reference to ADOX (ADO Ext. > 2.8 for DDL and Security): > > ' Adds a linked External table > ' > ' Parameters: > ' sProviderString - ADO Provider string (can be ODBC Connect string) > ' sSourceTbl - Source table name (provider) > ' sLinkTblName - Link table name (local) > ' bSavePassword - True: Set "Cache Link Name/Password" property > ' > ' Adapted from Visual Basic Programmer's Guide: Data Access Components > ' > http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/office/office2000/proddocs/opg/part3/ch14.mspx > ' > Public Sub CreateLinkedExternalTable(sProviderString As String, _ > sSourceTbl As String, _ > sLinkTblName As String, _ > Optional bSavePassword As Boolean = False) > > Dim rCatalog As ADOX.Catalog > Dim rTable As ADOX.Table > > On Error GoTo HandleErr > > ' Get current Catalog > Set rCatalog = CurrentCatalog > > Set rTable = New ADOX.Table > With rTable > ' Name the new Table and set its ParentCatalog property to the > ' open Catalog to allow access to the Properties collection. > .Name = sLinkTblName > Set .ParentCatalog = rCatalog > ' Set the properties to create the link. > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Create Link") = True > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Link Provider String") = sProviderString > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Remote Table Name") = sSourceTbl > If bSavePassword Then > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Cache Link Name/Password") = True > End If > End With > > ' Append the table to the Tables collection. > rCatalog.Tables.Append rTable > Set rCatalog = Nothing > > Exit Sub > > HandleErr: > Err.Raise Err.Number, "CreateLinkedExternalTable"& VbCrLf& > Err.Description > End Sub > > With this, you can write normal, non-pass-through select queries against the > table, and use it in DAO code with it just like any other TableDef. I > wouldn't go crazy with multi-ODBC-table joins, though. > > Alas, you can't write normal update, insert or delete queries against an > ODBC tabledef, as the underlying recordset is not updateable. > > For that, you will need the aforementioned ODBC Pass-through queries, and > use some method for storing the base SQL like Robert's. > > You can call stored procedures this way, but for that, I would recommend > using ADO, setting the parameters in code, and calling the procedure > directly. > > -Ken > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving< >> accessd at databaseadvisors.com> >> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Robert, >> >> What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? >> >> I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it >> pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It immediately >> asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for the user name / >> password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any >> time I do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. >> >> Am I missing something? >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 11:55:24 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:55:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D8782FC.1000300@colbyconsulting.com> I tried using that (a week or so ago) and it failed, but I am trying to connect to an IP address over Hamachi and that failed. Just changing the server name from an English name to an IP address failed. OTOH I could open a recordset using the IP address and that worked. There is more to this than meets the eye. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 11:51 AM, Robert wrote: > There is a property in the design view, ODBC Connect String. > > My local development copy looks something like this: > ODBC;DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=tg9078;UID=sa;PWD=monkey;DATABASE=WWCI_Master_Data > > Once that is filled in, you should not get any more hits asking you for that info. > > At 09:27 AM 3/19/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D834D8C.4040806 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Robert, >> >> What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? >> >> I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it pass-through by changing the >> sql specific to pass through. It immediately asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me >> for the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any time I >> do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. >> >> Am I missing something? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 12:53:16 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:53:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4D87908C.80806@colbyconsulting.com> Them Aussies .... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 10:01 AM, David McAfee wrote: > I was watching a home gardening show this weekend and one person tells the > other "tug on it a little" or "give me a little tug". > > The host, who is Australian, said "that would mean something completely > different in Australia " > > :) > > Sent from my Droid phone. > On Mar 20, 2011 6:07 PM, "Darren - Active Billing"< > darren at activebilling.com.au> wrote: >> Howdy >> It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a > phone >> (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. >> Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the > same >> way the Yanks do... >> >> That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- >> "I rooted my droid X last night" >> Hmm - And then Charlottes response:- >> "I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" >> Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. >> Andy - Comments please. >> Snigger >> >> From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 16:36:07 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 14:36:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: My phone didn't handle tethering until Android 2.2. That's one of the features previously unavailable for me. I have Evernote, but I confess, I've never used it. I used OneNote when I had a Windows phone and kind of miss that functionality. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Rusty Hammond wrote: > pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root > my phone to use it. > > Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, > home computer - have access to my notes anywhere > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 22:20:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 23:20:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: <4D881580.9000300@colbyconsulting.com> I am now able to use (barely) PDANet. It connects but is very slow, about 125 kbit up and oddly, about 225K down. I can't ping any ip number directly but I can ping google.com though the response is slow. I am able to browse things like newegg but it is just very slow. But it does work. I had to disable my other network interfaces though. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 5:36 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > My phone didn't handle tethering until Android 2.2. That's one of the > features previously unavailable for me. I have Evernote, but I > confess, I've never used it. I used OneNote when I had a Windows > phone and kind of miss that functionality. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Rusty Hammond wrote: >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root >> my phone to use it. >> >> Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, >> home computer - have access to my notes anywhere >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA >> Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps >> >> What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? >> >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> ********************************************************************** >> WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, >> scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. >> corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review >> by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. >> ********************************************************************** >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Tue Mar 22 08:04:38 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 08:04:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com><49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0C1@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> I missed some of the features in OneNote when I first started with Evernote, but the ability to get to the notes from whatever device I'm using makes up for it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps My phone didn't handle tethering until Android 2.2. That's one of the features previously unavailable for me. I have Evernote, but I confess, I've never used it. I used OneNote when I had a Windows phone and kind of miss that functionality. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Rusty Hammond wrote: > pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to > root my phone to use it. > > Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, > home computer - have access to my notes anywhere > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or > review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From rlister at actuarial-files.com Tue Mar 22 10:08:33 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:08:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Message-ID: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Mar 22 10:13:09 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:13:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709B04@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Not very good but it can be done in ms paint. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 22 10:29:41 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 08:29:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 Message-ID: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all of my customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development from there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing development and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more back ups - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. TIA Rocky From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 10:44:21 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:44:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: There's a freebie called IconThief that can open Exes and DLLs and grab their iconic contents, saving them to a file. c.f. http://hem.passagen.se/kajetan/thief.html. HTH, Arthur On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create > icon > files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 10:50:52 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:50:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet -- very selective business for now. Susan H. > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all of > my > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development from > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing development > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more back > ups > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > Didn't see any on the web site. > > TIA > > Rocky From jengross at gte.net Tue Mar 22 12:02:52 2011 From: jengross at gte.net (Jennifer Gross) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:02:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed - question for Lambert In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003f01cbe8b2$fba023f0$1201a8c0@Schroeder> Hi Lambert, Would you share your code for opening and keeping open this recordset. I have always shied away from global variables, but it seems that this would need one to keep it open. I would like to see how you do it so that I know I am on the right track. Thanks, Jennifer Gross -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed I just open a recordset on a table in the back end (as it happens a dedicated dummy table that is not used for anything else) in a Front End application form that opens hidden when the application starts up. That form's main purpose in life is to check if any user is not doing anything for n minutes, and if so it automatically shuts the database down. In the Close event of the form the recordset object is closed. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed That sounds more elegant than the code I found. Would you mind sharing the code? Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed Persistent connection means that you open one recordset to each BE and *hold it open*. What this does for you is gets the lock used to open the BE and holds it open. It is that first "connect to the BE file" lock that takes the longest and can be quite time consuming (5-10 seconds) if there are dozens of users in the BE. I have written code which opens a recordset and stores a pointer to the open recordset in a list. I actually use about a half dozen BEs at one client so I have a half dozen recordsets open and held open. I went so far as to create a tblHoldOpen with zero records in it, one tblHoldOpen in each BE. I then open a recordset SELECT * FROM tblHoldOpenXYZ. These are LINKED to tblHoldopen in BE XYZ. So i open each tblHoldOpen in each BE and then throw a pointer to that recordset into a collection where it stays open until the FE closes. Voila, persistent connections. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/10/2011 10:01 AM, jm.hwsn wrote: > Good points Jim, thanks. > I have turned off the sub-datasheets... I usually do that regardless > of the version. > I don't have any control over the servers, but I can ask them to make > some changes. > I never thought about the virus scan... I'll check into that. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:52 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed > > Jim, > > The exclusive point is in regards to the FE in a split design, which > each user should have their own copy of, so opening exclusive would be > appropriate. > > Some other items: > > 1. Make sure the new ACE DB's are not being virus scanned. Since the > extension has changed, anti-virus sometimes kicks in. > > 2. Turn off the sub datasheets feature on all tables (FE and BE). Not > specific to A2007, but often overlooked. > > 3. Turning off OPLOCKs on the server, but that impacts all apps and > again, this applies to all versions (not A2007 specifically). > > 4. Often, A2007 is used in conjunction with a new server like 2008. > It appears that the SMB 2.0 specification is giving some apps > headaches, although this is not fully clear yet. Some report the app > works better when the server is forced to use SMB 1.0 protocol, others > 2.0, so your mileage may vary. > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 08:58 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed > > Access 2007 is inherently slow on a network configured using FE/BE scenario. > > I have scoured several websites and spent a lot of hours, to see if > A2007 can be modified to speed it up. > > Several "tips" were obscure on the sites and might only be mentioned > in passing. > > Here is what I've found: > > 1) ensure there is a persistent connection to the BE. Code can be > found on the FMS, Inc. site. > > 2) Ensure the BE location is in a "Trusted Location" in the FE. > > 3) Change record-level locking. I set the following: > > OLE/DDE timeout: 30 > > Refresh interval: 30 > > Number of update retries: 2 > > ODBC refresh interval: 120 > > Update retry interval: 250 > > 4) Turn off unused user interface features such as: Show animations > and Show Smart Tags on Datasheets > > > > In my somewhat limited test, my FE runs almost as fast as an > integrated file. I know it's running little slower, but I can barely > see the difference > - I can live with it. The biggest improvement came when I did 2 and 3 > above. I still haven't done or tested number 1 above. > > > > Other items that are recommended are: > > change the default open mode: Exclusive > > default record locking: Edited Record. > > However, I don't think these would work with a shared BE. I don't > think there is a way to make these different for two separate files. > > > > Do you have any other ideas or words of wisdom or comments? > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jengross at gte.net Tue Mar 22 12:02:52 2011 From: jengross at gte.net (Jennifer Gross) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:02:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004001cbe8b2$fc01f300$1201a8c0@Schroeder> If you decide not to build your own there are several websites out there with free icons, like http://www.iconarchive.com/ Jennifer Gross -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Icon Files There's a freebie called IconThief that can open Exes and DLLs and grab their iconic contents, saving them to a file. c.f. http://hem.passagen.se/kajetan/thief.html. HTH, Arthur On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create > icon > files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Robert at WeBeDb.com Tue Mar 22 11:06:09 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:06:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: John, If you are using the IP address, you might try adding a comma and 1433 at the end of the IP address. That is the port SQL Server. listens on by default. Change the 1433 to the port if you have changed the default. We found on some connections that we needed to do that before it would connect properly. We also saw that when using the name for the server on some connections. There was no real consistency to it. Robert At 10:29 AM 3/22/2011, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:55:24 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D8782FC.1000300 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >I tried using that (a week or so ago) and it failed, but I am trying >to connect to an IP address >over Hamachi and that failed. Just changing the server name from an >English name to an IP address >failed. OTOH I could open a recordset using the IP address and that worked. > >There is more to this than meets the eye. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Mar 22 12:11:44 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:11:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access replication Message-ID: <000501cbe8b4$390ea710$5bdea8c0@edz1> Can't anyone please direct me to a simple example of using Access replication ? I am using MsAccess 2000 and 2003. Also isn't there some kind of stripped down version of MSFT's SQL server for operations on the desk top ? Where would find that to work on W2K ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 11:16:56 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:16:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access replication In-Reply-To: <000501cbe8b4$390ea710$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <000501cbe8b4$390ea710$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: Replication isn't simple, but it doesn't need to be overly complicated. What are you trying to achieve with it? Charlotte Foust On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > ?Can't anyone please direct me to a simple > ?example of using Access replication ? > > ?I am using MsAccess 2000 and 2003. > > ?Also isn't there some kind of stripped > ?down version of MSFT's SQL server for > ?operations on the desk top ? > > ?Where would find that to work on W2K ? > > ?Thanks. > > ?Sincerely, > ?Ed Zuris. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 22 11:18:01 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:18:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> Yeah still beta I guess from the web site. Just got wind of it so I'm curious. If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid of that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from wherever. Just a romantic notion. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet -- very selective business for now. Susan H. > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all > of my customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > development from there? What about the lag time of manipulating an > app, doing development and testing, on a remote server? It would be > convenient - no more back ups > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > Didn't see any on the web site. > > TIA > > Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 11:22:19 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:22:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: Hi Ralf: For taking a larger picture and rendering it down into an icon size there is a free generator app online: http://www.htmlkit.com/services/favicon/ It creates in a couple of sizes and formats. (An initial strong simple designs work best) I am assuming you already have a graphic editor to either create or edit the original image. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 11:25:18 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:25:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> Message-ID: <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> Absolutely true. I think you could make that happen now, but I don't understand all the logistics. Some publishers would like me to cover it, but nobody can get in the beta! Right now, you have to be a really big company with lots of users. Susan H. > Yeah still beta I guess from the web site. Just got wind of it so I'm > curious. If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid of > that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from wherever. > Just a romantic notion. > > R From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 11:31:27 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:31:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Absolutely true. I think you could make that happen now, but I don't understand all the logistics. Some publishers would like me to cover it, but nobody can get in the beta! Right now, you have to be a really big company with lots of users. Susan H. > Yeah still beta I guess from the web site. Just got wind of it so I'm > curious. If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid of > that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from wherever. > Just a romantic notion. > > R -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Tue Mar 22 11:31:59 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:31:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: Here is an Icon editor I use. You can edit other Icons with it. Cost $20 US but there is a free shareware trial. I've also used Snagit to get a picture of an Icon I wanted to make and pasted to it. http://www.iconedit2.com/ Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 11:41:20 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:41:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005><003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, but not this time. I signed up months ago... Susan H. > There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 11:57:02 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:57:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, but not this time. I signed up months ago... Susan H. > There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rlister at actuarial-files.com Tue Mar 22 11:59:57 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:59:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <001801cbe8b2$94578ee0$bd06aca0$@com> A huge thank you to you all for helping me with my icon stuff. Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia De: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] En nombre de Steve Turner Enviado el: Martes, 22 de Marzo de 2011 12:32 p.m. Para: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Asunto: Re: [AccessD] Icon Files Here is an Icon editor I use. You can edit other Icons with it. Cost $20 US but there is a free shareware trial. I've also used Snagit to get a picture of an Icon I wanted to make and pasted to it. http://www.iconedit2.com/ Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So? do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3522 - Release Date: 03/22/11 From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 12:06:39 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:06:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005><003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins><317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> Bah... I'm absolutely nobody -- they've never even heard of me. Now, I am surprised that they're not letting the major publishers in yet -- at least, none that I work with. Far as I know, no individuals are in the beta -- well, probably the MVPs, folks like that. Susan H. > If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? > > Jim > > In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, > but not this time. > > I signed up months ago... > > Susan H. > > >> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 12:09:36 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:09:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: Sounds like something that would work for Colby's current project. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all of my > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development from > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing development > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more back ups > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > Didn't see any on the web site. > > TIA > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 12:51:04 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:51:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Susan: Don't we have a few MVP folks in our midst? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Bah... I'm absolutely nobody -- they've never even heard of me. Now, I am surprised that they're not letting the major publishers in yet -- at least, none that I work with. Far as I know, no individuals are in the beta -- well, probably the MVPs, folks like that. Susan H. > If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? > > Jim > > In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, > but not this time. > > I signed up months ago... > > Susan H. > > >> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 13:49:36 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:49:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: My Microsoft Partner status - part of the Action Pack Subscription - let me ask to be part of the Beta. But it was sure to tell me that NOT EVERYONE WILL GET A SPOT. GK On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Susan: > > Don't we have a few MVP folks in our midst? > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:07 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Bah... I'm absolutely nobody -- they've never even heard of me. Now, I am > surprised that they're not letting the major publishers in yet -- at least, > none that I work with. Far as I know, no individuals are in the beta -- > well, probably the MVPs, folks like that. > > > Susan H. > > >> If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? >> >> Jim >> >> In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, >> but not this time. >> >> I signed up months ago... >> >> Susan H. >> >> >>> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 14:04:58 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 15:04:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005><003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins><317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins><0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins><822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <13B3D772D7BE4FFE9C4A7BCFCA898FE8@SusanHarkins> Did you apply? Susan H. > My Microsoft Partner status - part of the Action Pack Subscription - > let me ask to be part of the Beta. But it was sure to tell me that NOT > EVERYONE WILL GET A SPOT. From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 14:35:14 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 14:35:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <13B3D772D7BE4FFE9C4A7BCFCA898FE8@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <13B3D772D7BE4FFE9C4A7BCFCA898FE8@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I did ask to be part of the beta. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > Did you apply? > Susan H. > >> My Microsoft Partner status - part of the Action Pack Subscription - >> let me ask to be part of the Beta. But it was sure to tell me that NOT >> EVERYONE WILL GET A SPOT. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 22 14:54:07 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 05:54:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <4D88FE5F.25610.8A1D989@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Use your favourite graphics program to create it in any multiple of 16x16 pixels and then use Irfanview to resize it and convert it to .ico. -- Stuart On 22 Mar 2011 at 11:08, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you > create icon files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 22 14:57:52 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 05:57:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, , <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D88FF40.17779.8A5465F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You still need a good internet connection for it. If you are moving around and don't know what sort of internet connection you will be using next week, you would be better of using and carrying around a development laptop (which is what I do). On 22 Mar 2011 at 9:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid > of that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from > wherever. Just a romantic notion. > > R > From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 22 16:44:15 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:44:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] test Message-ID: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> John B -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 22 16:51:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 07:51:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4D8919E9.31595.90D6BEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> IMNSHO, all such advertisements on emails passed through filtering products turn the products themselves into spam engines. They are definitely trying to sell their product and I did not ask to receive their advertising. I would not use them on principle. -- Stuart On 22 Mar 2011 at 16:44, John Bartow wrote: > John B > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Mar 22 17:06:21 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (edzedz at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 22:06:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I have been having trouble replying to an email. What is going on ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "DBA-Access" Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:44:15 PM Subject: [AccessD] test John B -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 22 17:21:38 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:21:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <4D8919E9.31595.90D6BEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> <4D8919E9.31595.90D6BEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <00bb01cbe8df$836b4ef0$8a41ecd0$@winhaven.net> Yeah, sorry about that. I keep manually turning off the add-in because I can't find my reg. # for it. But I forgot this time. The product works good where needed but their advertising is annoying if you don't pay for it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] test IMNSHO, all such advertisements on emails passed through filtering products turn the products themselves into spam engines. They are definitely trying to sell their product and I did not ask to receive their advertising. I would not use them on principle. -- Stuart From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 22 17:21:38 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:21:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <00bf01cbe8df$84909510$8db1bf30$@winhaven.net> I'm not sure yet. John Colby emailed me off line so I went in to see what was happening and everything seemed to check out OK. I'm cc-ing the List master on this. I guess he'll have to do his magic. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of edzedz at comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] test I have been having trouble replying to an email. What is going on ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "DBA-Access" Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:44:15 PM Subject: [AccessD] test John B -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kismert at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 18:12:43 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:12:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Message-ID: Two programs I use: IcoFX: http://icofx.ro/ Free donation-ware Supports Windows 7, Macintosh, and Web PNG-style icons, with alpha-blended transparency. This one is very easy to use, and up-to-date. Inkscape http://inkscape.org/ Open source GNU GPLv2 SVG vector editor. Version 0.48.1 is a major step forward, and supports several modes for creating Icon-style graphics. This program is much more challenging to use, but it can produce first rate icon graphics. Vector graphics are inherently scalable, so it is simple to produce all icon sizes from a single drawing. Inkscape exports to png bitmap, and converts to vector formats like xaml, eps, pdf, emf, and others. -Ken -----Original Message----- > Ralf Lister: > > Hello, > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create > icon > files? > From kathryn at bassett.net Tue Mar 22 18:30:09 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:30:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <006501cbe8e9$15e7ae00$41b70a00$@net> http://www.favicon.co.uk/ > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:09 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files > > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon > files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > From kathryn at bassett.net Tue Mar 22 18:32:23 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:32:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps Message-ID: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Rusty said: > pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root > my phone to use it. I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a Samsung Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying Verizon for tethering. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:16:33 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:16:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. Tethering is built into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. Charlotte Foust On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > Rusty said: >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root >> my phone to use it. > > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a Samsung > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying > Verizon for tethering. > > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:20:06 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:20:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: It's an added monthly cost, now that Verizon and AT&T offer it. $20/month IIRC On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market > (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. Tethering is built > into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett > wrote: > > Rusty said: > >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root > >> my phone to use it. > > > > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a > Samsung > > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in > > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying > > Verizon for tethering. > > > > > > -- > > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > > kathryn at bassett.net > > http://bassett.net > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:37:22 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:37:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: Over and above the unlimited data plan? Charlotte Foust On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM, David McAfee wrote: > It's an added monthly cost, now that Verizon and AT&T offer it. > > $20/month IIRC > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Charlotte Foust > wrote: > >> My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market >> (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. ?Tethering is built >> into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett >> wrote: >> > Rusty said: >> >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root >> >> my phone to use it. >> > >> > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a >> Samsung >> > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in >> > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying >> > Verizon for tethering. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) >> > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" >> > kathryn at bassett.net >> > http://bassett.net >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Tue Mar 22 19:55:39 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:55:39 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <8014C171AFE944879C38E8363D8226AF@stevelaptop> Ralf, I use Axialis IconWorkshop. It is a totally brilliant product. I see they are currently offering it for $US25. http://www.axialis.com/ Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Ralf Lister Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:08 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? From kismert at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:58:32 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 19:58:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Message-ID: Some free icon library sources: famfamfam http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/ A popular free icon source. IconEden -- Free Vector Icons http://www.iconeden.com/icon/category/free My personal favorite, load into Inkscape, and modify for your needs. Great examples of how to build vector images. p.yusukekamiyamane http://p.yusukekamiyamane.com/ Free if attribution is given. IconPot http://www.iconpot.com/ Please respect the licensing terms of the various icon authors. -Ken From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Mar 22 20:33:57 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 21:33:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PPT to Video In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com>, , <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au>, Message-ID: <000001cbe8fa$61b4d4a0$251e7de0$@net> I think you want Camtasia by TechSmith..... > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jurgen Welz > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 12:14 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT: PPT to Video > > > I've been searching for a decent PowerPoint to video converter so as to > burn some DVDs of some PowerPoint marketing material. > > So far the free stuff yeilds crappy results and the trial stuff isn't > much better. Does anyone have a suggestion of something free or > inexpensive that yeilds high quality results? > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Mar 22 21:04:58 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 22:04:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 22 23:24:42 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 21:24:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> Message-ID: Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 23 03:38:25 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:38:25 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B2569CA@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Have a look at live at Edu this will give you some idea of what it's like. Add in SharePoint and your almost there. Martin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: 23 March 2011 02:05 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 23 05:22:42 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 06:22:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> Message-ID: Macros are the answer! Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 05:30:39 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 20:30:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, , Message-ID: <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) -- Stuart On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Macros are the answer! > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:25 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > One minor problem: > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it > > yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > > all > > of > > > my > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > > from > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > development > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > > back > > > ups > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing > > > yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > Rocky > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 11:49:45 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:49:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > One minor problem: > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it > > > yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > > > all > > > of > > > > my > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > > > from > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > development > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > > > back > > > > ups > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing > > > > yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > Rocky > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 12:00:44 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:00:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: I believe so, but I'm not sure if it is a physical connection (USB) tether or the mobile wifi/hotspot option, or both. If you didn't receive the text message that they sent out the other day, you should be ok. I think is complete BS. Uunlimited data, should be that. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Over and above the unlimited data plan? > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM, David McAfee > wrote: > > It's an added monthly cost, now that Verizon and AT&T offer it. > > > > $20/month IIRC > > > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Charlotte Foust > > wrote: > > > >> My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market > >> (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. Tethering is built > >> into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. > >> > >> Charlotte Foust > >> > >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett > >> wrote: > >> > Rusty said: > >> >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to > root > >> >> my phone to use it. > >> > > >> > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a > >> Samsung > >> > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in > >> > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying > >> > Verizon for tethering. > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > >> > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > >> > kathryn at bassett.net > >> > http://bassett.net > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 23 12:11:15 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:11:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook Calendars (a bit OT) Message-ID: <671D5178AF944D1691C710DA6840737D@HAL9005> Dear List: I have a client who recently installed a server and they added a shared calendar to their Outlook (Firm calendar) which is on the server. So everyone has access to the Firm calendar and their local calendar on their own comp. The problem is that they can set alerts for their local calendar but not for the shared calendar. Outlook tells them when they add a item to the Firm calendar that they cannot set alerts because "the item is not in a folder that supports reminders". Sometimes they get a second notice that the Firm calendar is not the primary calendar so the responses will not be tallied. They would like to be able to set alerts for both calendars. Can this be done? If not they would like alerts for the Firm calendar. But I'm no good with Outlook. Any guidance on this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 14:03:15 2011 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:03:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: You are going to need to be more specific. Do the emails not show up? Are you getting bounces? Are you not getting answers? etc, etc, etc. The more info YOU give, the better answer we can give. Bryan On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 6:06 PM, wrote: > > I have been having trouble replying to an email. > > What is going on ? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "DBA-Access" > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:44:15 PM > Subject: [AccessD] test > > John B > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Wed Mar 23 14:34:46 2011 From: listmaster at databaseadvisors.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:34:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - Spam Filtering on DBA Servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We have made a change to the way our mailservers deal with spam filtering. We were getting too many false positive reports from one of the spam black list services we use, so we have discontinued using them. Hopefully your bounce troubles should be over, or at the very least greatly minimized. If you continue to have issues surrounding bounces, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE get in touch with me (listmaster at databaseadvisors OR carbonnb at gmail.com if the listmaster address bounces). -- Bryan Carbonnell - listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 23 15:41:12 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:41:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Test Message Message-ID: <005001cbe99a$a6977410$5bdea8c0@edz1> This is a test to see if I get a bounce. From garykjos at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 14:55:17 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:55:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Test Message In-Reply-To: <005001cbe99a$a6977410$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <005001cbe99a$a6977410$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: Got it here Edward. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > ?This is a test to see if I get a bounce. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 23 16:05:37 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:05:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Test Message In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201cbe99e$0f95ef20$5bdea8c0@edz1> It is working. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Test Message Got it here Edward. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > ?This is a test to see if I get a bounce. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 23 15:57:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:57:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] test Message-ID: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> test - was bouncing! -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 16:02:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:02:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console Message-ID: I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display status of events that are happening. After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does in a DOS window. Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar down? If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete everything up to the first VBCRLF. Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? Thanks, David From carbonnb at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 16:02:42 2011 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:02:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Now not bouncing. On 2011-03-23 4:59 PM, "jwcolby" wrote: > test - was bouncing! > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 23 16:08:19 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:08:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <88DC0D9EDDB64C58AEE9B36CF615ED34@HAL9005> After adding to the text box, could you find the total length of the text in the text box and do a .SelStart at that position? Would that work? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Faux console I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display status of events that are happening. After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does in a DOS window. Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar down? If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete everything up to the first VBCRLF. Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? Thanks, David -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Wed Mar 23 16:25:52 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:25:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: <006f01cbe9a0$e318bec0$a94a3c40$@net> Verizon charges $30/month for the data plan and $30/month for tethering. The data plan is per month included in your contract. The tethering can get turned on and off and you pay a pro-rated amount for the time actually turned on. Before pdaNet, I would turn on tethering before a long weekend, and turn off when I returned, paying for the 3, 4, 5 days only. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > I believe so, but I'm not sure if it is a physical connection (USB) tether > or the mobile wifi/hotspot option, or both. > > If you didn't receive the text message that they sent out the other day, you > should be ok. > > I think is complete BS. Uunlimited data, should be that. > > > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Charlotte Foust > wrote: > > > Over and above the unlimited data plan? > > > > Charlotte Foust From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 16:49:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 07:49:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. -- Stuart On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > Jim. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > One minor problem: > > > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for > > > > it yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to > > > > > put all > > > > of > > > > > my > > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > > > > > development > > > > from > > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > > development > > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no > > > > > more > > > > back > > > > > ups > > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any > > > > > pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:02:20 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:02:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: <88DC0D9EDDB64C58AEE9B36CF615ED34@HAL9005> References: <88DC0D9EDDB64C58AEE9B36CF615ED34@HAL9005> Message-ID: I was looking at that at first, but I think it required the "console" to have focus, and I just wanted to update it. I got it working: Private Sub UpdateStatus(StatusText As String) Dim intCurrPos As Integer Dim intNumberOfVbCrLFs As Integer, intFirstVbCrLf As Integer, FoundVbCrLf As Integer intCurrPos = 1 Me.txtStatus = Me.txtStatus + StatusText & vbCrLf Do Until intCurrPos >= Len(Me.txtStatus.Value) FoundVbCrLf = InStr(intCurrPos, Me.txtStatus.Value, vbCrLf) If FoundVbCrLf Then 'found If intFirstVbCrLf = 0 Then intFirstVbCrLf = FoundVbCrLf intCurrPos = FoundVbCrLf + 2 intNumberOfVbCrLFs = intNumberOfVbCrLFs + 1 If intCurrPos > Len(Me.txtStatus.Value) Then Exit Do Else 'not found intCurrPos = intCurrPos + 1 End If Loop If intNumberOfVbCrLFs > 16 Then Me.txtStatus = Right(Me.txtStatus.Value, Len(Me.txtStatus.Value) - (intFirstVbCrLf + 1)) End Sub On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > After adding to the text box, could you find the total length of the text > in > the text box and do a .SelStart at that position? Would that work? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:03 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Faux console > > I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display > status > of events that are happening. > > After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. > > The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does in a > DOS window. > > Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar down? > > If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete > everything up to the first VBCRLF. > > Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? > > Thanks, > David > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:03:11 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:03:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Sadly, me too. :( On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > > -- > Stuart > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > > wrote: > > > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > > > Jim. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > One minor problem: > > > > > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for > > > > > it yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to > > > > > > put all > > > > > of > > > > > > my > > > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > > > > > > development > > > > > from > > > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > > > development > > > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no > > > > > > more > > > > > back > > > > > > ups > > > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any > > > > > > pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 17:10:44 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:10:44 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Message-ID: <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In tab. Am I doing something wrong? Public Sub basSetProperties() basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" End Sub Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue basSetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_basSetProperty: Exit Function Err_basSetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else basSetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_basSetProperty End If End Function Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > >Carolyn Johnson From cjlabs at att.net Wed Mar 23 17:19:34 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:19:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> That looks like what I use. Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In tab. Am I doing something wrong? Public Sub basSetProperties() basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" End Sub Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue basSetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_basSetProperty: Exit Function Err_basSetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else basSetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_basSetProperty End If End Function Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > >Carolyn Johnson -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 17:20:13 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:20:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D8A721D.3979.339251D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I normally use a listbox for this. Set the rowsource to Value List and make sure that it is not sorted. Function AddToLogList(strData) 'Add new item to the end lstLog.Additem(strData) 'Remove first item if list is now too long If lstLog.Listcount > 50 then lstLog.RemoveItem(0) end if 'Move to last item in list lstLog = strData End Function On 23 Mar 2011 at 14:02, David McAfee wrote: > I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display > status of events that are happening. > > After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. > > The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does > in a DOS window. > > Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar > down? > > If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete > everything up to the first VBCRLF. > > Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? > > Thanks, > David > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 17:36:19 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:36:19 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> Message-ID: <20110323223717.WJFG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I have a number of custom menus but all forms and reports have a custom menu assigned to them. David At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >That looks like what I use. > >Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? > >Carolyn Johnson > > >----- Original Message ----- > From: David Emerson > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that > opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and > am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In > tab. Am I doing something wrong? > > Public Sub basSetProperties() > > basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" > basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" > ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" > > End Sub > > Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long > > On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > Set db = CurrentDb > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > basSetProperty = True > Set db = Nothing > > Exit_basSetProperty: > Exit Function > > Err_basSetProperty: > If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found > Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, > varPropValue) > db.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > basSetProperty = False > MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description > Resume Exit_basSetProperty > End If > > End Function > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > > At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of > >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the > >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do > >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > > > >Carolyn Johnson From cjlabs at att.net Wed Mar 23 17:40:44 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:40:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell><20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> <20110323223717.WJFG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: And one of them is called MenuBarMenus? That's the menu bar on the first form? Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I have a number of custom menus but all forms and reports have a custom menu assigned to them. David At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >That looks like what I use. > >Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? > >Carolyn Johnson > > >----- Original Message ----- > From: David Emerson > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that > opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and > am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In > tab. Am I doing something wrong? > > Public Sub basSetProperties() > > basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" > basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" > ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" > > End Sub > > Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long > > On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > Set db = CurrentDb > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > basSetProperty = True > Set db = Nothing > > Exit_basSetProperty: > Exit Function > > Err_basSetProperty: > If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found > Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, > varPropValue) > db.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > basSetProperty = False > MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description > Resume Exit_basSetProperty > End If > > End Function > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > > At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of > >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the > >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do > >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > > > >Carolyn Johnson -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:46:15 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:46:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: <4D8A721D.3979.339251D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D8A721D.3979.339251D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: ooh, and much more simple! On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I normally use a listbox for this. Set the rowsource to Value List and make > sure that it is not > sorted. > > Function AddToLogList(strData) > 'Add new item to the end > lstLog.Additem(strData) > > 'Remove first item if list is now too long > If lstLog.Listcount > 50 then > lstLog.RemoveItem(0) > end if > > 'Move to last item in list > lstLog = strData > End Function > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 14:02, David McAfee wrote: > > > I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display > > status of events that are happening. > > > > After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. > > > > The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does > > in a DOS window. > > > > Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar > > down? > > > > If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete > > everything up to the first VBCRLF. > > > > Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? > > > > Thanks, > > David > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 17:56:41 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:56:41 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> <20110323223717.WJFG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20110323225725.YMLG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Yes - that is the menu in the menu bar property. Could I send you the file off line to test to see if you have the same result? It is a basic app with no tables and four forms? David At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >And one of them is called MenuBarMenus? That's the menu bar on the >first form? > >Carolyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Emerson > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:36 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > I have a number of custom menus but all forms and reports have a > custom menu assigned to them. > > David > > At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > >That looks like what I use. > > > >Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? > > > >Carolyn Johnson > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Emerson > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > > > > I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that > > opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and > > am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In > > tab. Am I doing something wrong? > > > > Public Sub basSetProperties() > > > > basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False > > > > basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True > > > > basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" > > basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" > > ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" > > > > End Sub > > > > Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > > Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long > > > > On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty > > > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > > Set db = CurrentDb > > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > > basSetProperty = True > > Set db = Nothing > > > > Exit_basSetProperty: > > Exit Function > > > > Err_basSetProperty: > > If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found > > Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, > > varPropValue) > > db.Properties.Append prp > > Resume Next > > Else > > basSetProperty = False > > MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description > > Resume Exit_basSetProperty > > End If > > > > End Function > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand > > > > At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > > >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of > > >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the > > >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do > > >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > > > > > >Carolyn Johnson > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ramzcbu at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 19:52:07 2011 From: ramzcbu at gmail.com (Ramz .) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:52:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: test - was bouncing... From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 23 22:05:08 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:05:08 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA Message-ID: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Folks, I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design mode. WTF? Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I am going about it completely the wrong way. Access 2003 BTW... Regards Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 22:21:25 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:21:25 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA In-Reply-To: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <20110324032200.PYDO26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Darryl, Try the Caption property instead. Me.tabIntro.Pages(1).Caption = "Acceptance Criteria (" & gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 24/03/2011, Darryl Collins wrote: >_______________________________________________________________________________________ > >Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >bottom of this message. >_______________________________________________________________________________________ > > >Hi Folks, > >I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. > >Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & >gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" > >but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a >very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design mode. WTF? > >Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to >set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I >am going about it completely the wrong way. > >Access 2003 BTW... > >Regards >Darryl. > >_____________________________________ > >Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer >Retail Business Insurance >Insurance Australia Group (IAG) >Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia >Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 >Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 22:23:18 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 13:23:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA In-Reply-To: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D8AB926.1156.D1768A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Why would you want to change the Name property of any control at runtime. It will break all references to the control. Are you sure it isn't the Caption that you want to change? -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 14:05, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi Folks, > > I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. > > Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & > gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" > > but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a > very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design > mode. WTF? > > Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to > set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I > am going about it completely the wrong way. > > Access 2003 BTW... > > Regards > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 23 22:37:57 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:37:57 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA In-Reply-To: <4D8AB926.1156.D1768A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201103240338.p2O3c5VQ020670@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ aaaah, Yes, Gentlemen, this is exactly what I need, along with more than the 5 hours sleep a night I have gotten for the past two nights. Of course it would be Caption and not Name. Oddly, I did actually know that, but hey... stupid does what stupid does when having a brain freeze and major senior moment. Thanks guys. Appreciate the heads up - back on track. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2011 2:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA Why would you want to change the Name property of any control at runtime. It will break all references to the control. Are you sure it isn't the Caption that you want to change? -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 14:05, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi Folks, > > I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. > > Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & > gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" > > but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a > very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design > mode. WTF? > > Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to > set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I > am going about it completely the wrong way. > > Access 2003 BTW... > > Regards > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 01:14:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 23:14:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. -- Stuart On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > Jim. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > One minor problem: > > > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for > > > > it yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to > > > > > put all > > > > of > > > > > my > > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > > > > > development > > > > from > > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > > development > > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no > > > > > more > > > > back > > > > > ups > > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any > > > > > pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 24 07:27:58 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:27:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu Mar 24 07:47:36 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:47:36 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. Martin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to > move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good > money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their > first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the > technology divide are you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* > from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 09:07:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 07:07:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 24 09:41:10 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:41:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> Microsoft still doesn't get it; while people do want new features, first and foremost they want something that works day in and day out. And if it doesn't work, they want it FIXED. Not another version which has a new set of problems and requires more hardware to run. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Thu Mar 24 10:17:48 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:17:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com><74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> Message-ID: Amen to that. I used Firefox almost exclusively till I had to use IE on some particular sites. However When I updated to IE 8 and Somewhere I installed some little program of which I don't know Or the latest Firefox Update caused my print reports in Firefox to quit working. Havn't figured that one out yet and some State sites and the Bank I use I had to switch back to IE to get printouts. I'm thinking it's a MS thing. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Microsoft still doesn't get it; while people do want new features, first and foremost they want something that works day in and day out. And if it doesn't work, they want it FIXED. Not another version which has a new set of problems and requires more hardware to run. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 24 10:26:54 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:26:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not there... Give me a stinkin sandbox ... I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's and children's machines as well. One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were hitting the page file. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 10:37:34 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:37:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: A2007 and Windows Mobile 7 did it for me. A2007, new ribbon and layout, but still leaving old bugs/problems. WM5/6 with SQL Server CE was such an awesome combination. To drop it and force existing apps to be rewritten in Silverlight/XML, made me say "I'm done with new MS technologies". I've had to completely rewrite, existing/working mobile apps because of MS' forcing of new technologies and deprecating totally working systems. If I'm learning something new, it's going to be Android/iPhone programming. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide > are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > > -- > Stuart > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > > wrote: > > > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > > > Jim. > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 11:22:22 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 09:22:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Message-ID: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 11:44:54 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:44:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 12:32:17 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:32:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Jim: I get a compile error on the EOF - argument not optional. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 13:05:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:05:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> Message-ID: <31F23530A68141E1927C3B6C84D83F7F@creativesystemdesigns.com> It is an MS thing. It is how the site was built. The site builder first created the site in IE and that is a far as they went...just a little lazy as IE tends to break a good number of the W3C rules. I first build my sites so they would perfect on Chrome, FF, Safari and Opera, and that may take a week then there is IE and to get it to comply takes another week. (Clients never like paying double for IE compliance. Some have gone so far, in their in Intranet sites as to block IE) It usually requires another set CSS and JS script files, a few patches but using JQuery mostly handles the problems. JQuery usually tries to keep ahead of IE but it can be a difficult task...with every update another set of problems... IE6/IE7/IE8 and now IE9 all work slightly different. I am sure MS IE will eventually compile with the industry standards but I am sure it is a humbling experience for them to realize that, unlike the old days, their standard does not imply the new world standard. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Amen to that. I used Firefox almost exclusively till I had to use IE on some particular sites. However When I updated to IE 8 and Somewhere I installed some little program of which I don't know Or the latest Firefox Update caused my print reports in Firefox to quit working. Havn't figured that one out yet and some State sites and the Bank I use I had to switch back to IE to get printouts. I'm thinking it's a MS thing. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Microsoft still doesn't get it; while people do want new features, first and foremost they want something that works day in and day out. And if it doesn't work, they want it FIXED. Not another version which has a new set of problems and requires more hardware to run. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Thu Mar 24 13:05:43 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 13:05:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003d01cbea4e$180e9a70$482bcf50$@comcast.net> Try: Do While Not Me.Recordset.EOF -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Jim: I get a compile error on the EOF - argument not optional. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 13:14:23 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:14:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser wars: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs-opera -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 Real benchmark testing. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not there... Give me a stinkin sandbox ... I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's and children's machines as well. One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were hitting the page file. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu Mar 24 13:58:02 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 18:58:02 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9662B@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Sent from my Windows Phone Sent from my Windows Phone -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 March 2011 18:16 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser wars: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs-opera -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 Real benchmark testing. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not there... Give me a stinkin sandbox ... I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's and children's machines as well. One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were hitting the page file. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 24 14:59:46 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:59:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Browser wars... In-Reply-To: <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D8BA2B2.5010107@colbyconsulting.com> Now open task manager and click on processes. Sort image name A>Z. Open 10 copies of IE. Open 10 copies of Firefox. I use Google.com as the home page for both. Just observe the number and sizes of the instances of both programs. Close all the instances of both. Open Firefox and then open msnbc.com in the first tab. I use MSNBC.com simply because it is a fairly "heavy" site. Now open five tabs inside of that firefox instance and open msnbc.com in each tab. Do the same with IE. Observe task manager, specifically observe the number of instances of each program and observe the memory used for each instance in task manager. I simply suggest this test because there is more to a browser than the java engine it uses. One of the reasons I switched to Firefox was that (back in the day) I was running a laptop with a half gig of memory. I multitask and I was hitting the swap file all the time. What I discovered was that with a bunch of stuff open, IE was sitting at 400 megs of RAM. When I tried Firefox it would use a hundred megs. It seems both have gotten "fatter" in the years since. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser wars: > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs-opera > -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 > > Real benchmark testing. > > Jim From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 15:32:05 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 13:32:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: <003d01cbea4e$180e9a70$482bcf50$@comcast.net> References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> <003d01cbea4e$180e9a70$482bcf50$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5FD6004813D344ECB0E374785C75E57F@HAL9005> Dan: That works, but the spell check still stops after the first correction. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Try: Do While Not Me.Recordset.EOF -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Jim: I get a compile error on the EOF - argument not optional. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 24 15:44:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:44:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk>, <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8BAD1A.5229.282E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Why the h*** should I have to go into Internet Explorer options to make an application run properly over the LAN? Even just to make WIndows Help work properly!!!! -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 11:26, jwcolby wrote: > I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have > never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to > allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not > there... From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 24 15:58:39 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:58:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com>, <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D8BB07F.282.290246E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That's basically just Javascript interpretation speed. And their is very little difference between the various browsers. To me there are a lot more important issues such as "security crap", memory usage, user interface, capabilities. In my case, I use Firefox because there are a some Addons which drastically improve my productivity. -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 11:14, Jim Lawrence wrote: > For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser > wars: > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs > -opera -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 > > Real benchmark testing. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:27 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I > dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have > never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to > allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not > there... > > Give me a stinkin sandbox ... > > I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird > and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's > and children's machines as well. > > One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is > pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for > awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It > used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were > hitting the page file. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use > > whatever > opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if > it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I > can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and > problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone > has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, > "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. > Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has > refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft > claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as > good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into > the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide > are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no > use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that > site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox > winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE > only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On > 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft > will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers > along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently > the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first > warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> > technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original > Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> > McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are > forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than > simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 16:45:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:45:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Message-ID: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Dear List: I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter" I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the second machine where it's a period on the first machine? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 24 17:04:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:04:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export In-Reply-To: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> References: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D8BC006.15776.2CCCC9F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Almost certainly the case. The comma is used as a decimal character in a lot of languages. That's why I always use Tab separated values when I have the choice. -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 14:45, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText > command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well > on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export > fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): > > "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal > separator or text delimiter" > > I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the > second machine where it's a period on the first machine? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 24 17:16:18 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 01:16:18 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export In-Reply-To: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> References: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: Hi Rocky -- That "ancient" sample VBA code http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s/download/imex.htm could help to solve your issue I hope. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 25 ????? 2011 ?. 0:45 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Dear List: I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter" I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the second machine where it's a period on the first machine? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 17:49:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:49:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export In-Reply-To: References: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <96D0BBC235A14AAAAC79CD7FB326E295@HAL9005> Shamil: If I can't solve it with the simple fix of having them changing the decimal character, this looks like a good workaround. Thanks. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Hi Rocky -- That "ancient" sample VBA code http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s/download/imex.htm could help to solve your issue I hope. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 25 ????? 2011 ?. 0:45 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Dear List: I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter" I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the second machine where it's a period on the first machine? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 22:24:23 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:24:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: Problems exporting Data Message-ID: Whew! Rocky _____ From: Hanne Gutjahr [mailto:hanne at co2bambu.com] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:45 PM To: Rocky Smolin Subject: Re: Problems exporting Data Hi Rocky, I changed the settings on the new machine and now it is working. Thanks for your help, Hanne 2011/3/24 Rocky Smolin Hanne: The translation of the error message is: The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter I suspect that in the Regional and Language Options on the new machine the decimal separator is set to comma and on the machine where it is working it is set to period. Is that the case? Click Start-->Control Panel-->Regional and Language Options-->(on regional options tab) Customize... HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com _____ From: Hanne Gutjahr [mailto:hanne at co2bambu.com] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:37 AM To: Rocky Smolin Subject: Re: Problems exporting Data Attached the error report (it is in Spanish though) Putting Office 2003 is not really an alternative as everyone else in the office is working with 2007 so it makes life more complicated having different Office versions... Thanks Hanne 2011/3/24 Rocky Smolin From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 09:45:42 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:45:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Message-ID: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 25 10:21:29 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:21:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 10:34:07 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:34:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4d8cb5f2.afb3ec0a.2ed3.3651@mx.google.com> Thanks Dan. Let me work on these... I'll let you know what I find out. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 25 10:56:52 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:56:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Auto Close a Simple MessageBox Message-ID: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> I found this in an old forum to allow a messagebox to close automatically. I've tried it and it works just fine! '-------------- Alternatively you could use the following code in place of your message box: CreateObject("WScript.Shell").Popup "Test.", 2, "Test" the user can also click the ok button to close the popup, or the popup will automatically close itself after two seconds, and continue on with your macro. replace "Test" with the appropriate message and title, and replace the number 2 with the number of seconds you want the popup to remain. '-------------- Dan From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 12:28:48 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 13:28:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Auto Close a Simple MessageBox In-Reply-To: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Thanks Dan. On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > I found this in an old forum to allow a messagebox to close automatically. > I've tried it and it works just fine! > > '-------------- > Alternatively you could use the following code in place of your message > box: > > CreateObject("WScript.Shell").Popup "Test.", 2, "Test" > > the user can also click the ok button to close the popup, or the popup will > automatically close itself after two seconds, and continue on with your > macro. replace "Test" with the appropriate message and title, and replace > the number 2 with the number of seconds you want the popup to remain. > '-------------- > > Dan > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 25 16:41:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 07:41:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, Message-ID: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx :-) From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 16:48:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:48:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Well, for heaven's sake, why did I spend all that time learning VBA and then VB.Net?? LOL Charlotte Foust On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who want something easy to > use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 16:55:00 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:55:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: That's the route I wish Google would have went with AppInventor insterad of the graphical puzzle blocks of code that they are using. > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want > something easy to > > use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > > > :-) > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Fri Mar 25 16:59:33 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 10:59:33 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> Very cool. Seriously, as the father of a 10-year-old, it is good to know about stuff like that. Thanks, Stuart, I hadn't seen that before! Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] New Language For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx :-) From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 25 17:16:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 08:16:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Yep, I'm about to introduce it to my 8-year-old daughter. -- Stuart On 26 Mar 2011 at 10:59, Steve Schapel wrote: > Very cool. Seriously, as the father of a 10-year-old, it is good to > know about stuff like that. Thanks, Stuart, I hadn't seen that > before! > > Regards > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] New Language > > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want > something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just > the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 25 17:44:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 15:44:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> I guess once we have mastered that link we can go down the page and download Drupal. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 2:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] New Language For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx :-) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 17:51:36 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 15:51:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: When my son was 13 I volunteered to do a weekly computer lab with about 10 kids from his class. I tried to teach them Turtle Logo on Apple IIs. That's when I realized I was destined to be a programmer not a teacher. Doug From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Fri Mar 25 18:12:06 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:12:06 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <17E7406BDC414E848AC1A342A51639AC@stevelaptop> LOL! Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Doug Steele Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language When my son was 13 I volunteered to do a weekly computer lab with about 10 kids from his class. I tried to teach them Turtle Logo on Apple IIs. That's when I realized I was destined to be a programmer not a teacher. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 26 08:50:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:50:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. It was a big wedding too. Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. This might be it. Thanks Stuart. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to > use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 11:01:25 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:01:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Gawd, how times have changed. When my son was small, it was an etch-a-sketch!! Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby wrote: > LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. > > Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be it. > > Thanks Stuart. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >> >> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who want >> something easy to >> use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: >> >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >> >> :-) >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Mar 26 11:08:39 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:08:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <72F56912CF9B418EB4483A5EADFE731E@HAL9005> Max will be telling his grandchildren: "Why when I was a toddler all I had was a CP/M machine with a monochrome monitor. " I put a mouse in his hand when he was about 1 1/2 (1991). He doesn't remember life without a computer. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language Gawd, how times have changed. When my son was small, it was an etch-a-sketch!! Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby wrote: > LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. > > Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be it. > > Thanks Stuart. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >> >> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who >> want something easy to use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have >> just the thing for you: >> >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >> >> :-) >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 11:19:26 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:19:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <72F56912CF9B418EB4483A5EADFE731E@HAL9005> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <72F56912CF9B418EB4483A5EADFE731E@HAL9005> Message-ID: A mouse? The only mice my son encountered were the white ones in the pet shop! LOL Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Max will be telling his grandchildren: "Why when I was a toddler all I had > was a CP/M machine with a monochrome monitor. " > > I put a mouse in his hand when he was about 1 1/2 (1991). ?He doesn't > remember life without a computer. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 9:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language > > Gawd, how times have changed. ?When my son was small, it was an > etch-a-sketch!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. >> >> Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be > it. >> >> Thanks Stuart. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>> >>> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who >>> want something easy to use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have >>> just the thing for you: >>> >>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >>> >>> :-) >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 26 11:51:41 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:51:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/26/2011 12:01 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Gawd, how times have changed. When my son was small, it was an etch-a-sketch!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> LOL. It was a big wedding too. >> >> Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. This might be it. >> >> Thanks Stuart. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>> >>> For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want >>> something easy to >>> use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: >>> >>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >>> >>> :-) >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat Mar 26 13:39:31 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:39:31 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> Hi Stuart --- And this one can be used as a prototyping tool for serious Small Basic young programmers :) http://www.yoyogames.com/gamemaker/ (My 9+ years old son has just made his first "Galactic Burgers" game using this tool :)) BTW, he is playing computer games for several years and his first games were 3D "Spider Man" - and he (as all nowadays kids) can play that games virtuously but he just noted that "old 2D games were much better" - imagine that! :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 26 ????? 2011 ?. 1:17 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language Yep, I'm about to introduce it to my 8-year-old daughter. -- Stuart On 26 Mar 2011 at 10:59, Steve Schapel wrote: > Very cool. Seriously, as the father of a 10-year-old, it is good to > know about stuff like that. Thanks, Stuart, I hadn't seen that > before! > > Regards > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] New Language > > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want > something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just > the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 13:45:46 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 11:45:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Are you already putting your kids to work?? At their tender ages? Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:51 AM, jwcolby wrote: > An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/26/2011 12:01 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> Gawd, how times have changed. ?When my son was small, it was an >> etch-a-sketch!! >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. >>> >>> Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be >>> it. >>> >>> Thanks Stuart. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>>> >>>> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who want >>>> something easy to >>>> use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: >>>> >>>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >>>> >>>> :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 26 16:13:25 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 17:13:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8E56F5.8080800@colbyconsulting.com> Tender age? He turned 10 today. Time to get a job I say! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/26/2011 2:45 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Are you already putting your kids to work?? At their tender ages? > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:51 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun Mar 27 10:52:10 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 08:52:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8E56F5.8080800@colbyconsulting.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E56F5.8080800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Oh, now I understand. He's entering the ugly stage of little boy-hood, so putting him to work is the reasonable remedy! LOL Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 2:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Tender age? ?He turned 10 today. ?Time to get a job I say! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/26/2011 2:45 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> Are you already putting your kids to work?? ?At their tender ages? >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:51 AM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 09:56:20 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 07:56:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> Message-ID: <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on Surrogate keys. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 Jim From jerbach at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:11:34 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:11:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Message-ID: Hello - I have 2 questions for you all. 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing this? 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of thing, please let me know. Thank you! Janet Erbach IT/Office Manager Natural Healthy Concepts www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:13:57 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:13:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) Susan H. > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:19:55 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:19:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question References: Message-ID: <3F133DA9BBCC417CB51AD08071A0508C@SusanHarkins> > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - > I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' > data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? ==========A few questions: 1.) Is the customizations database an Access database? 2.) Are you sure you're actually connecting to the customization database? Regards, Susan H. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Mar 28 10:40:28 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:40:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> I wrote a rather elaborate piece of code behind an Excel 2003 spreadsheet to update data in an Access mdb. Actually the project was to export data from the Access based accounting system to a real complex spreadsheet, which would allow the user to tweak all the numbers, then, when she got it the way she wanted it, import the data from the spreadsheet back into the Access back end. It was all sorts of fun. So I've got the framework and techniques. I'll give it a shot. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Hello - I have 2 questions for you all. 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing this? 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of thing, please let me know. Thank you! Janet Erbach IT/Office Manager Natural Healthy Concepts www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 28 10:42:23 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:42:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4D90AC5F.5020804@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, Susan Susan Susan. Inserting yourself directly in the line of fire! ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/28/2011 11:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:53:07 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:53:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> <4D90AC5F.5020804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: "I can shoot straight, if I don't have to aim too far!" :) Susan H. > LOL, Susan Susan Susan. Inserting yourself directly in the line of fire! > ;) > >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur >> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 11:04:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:04:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Janet: If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a different named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > options > view). Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that it is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and force the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the link-manager etc... Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the DB is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows display can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec macro is run. Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database window" is checked. It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked so just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a number of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be all sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an objects properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple of hours to remove. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Hello - I have 2 questions for you all. 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing this? 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of thing, please let me know. Thank you! Janet Erbach IT/Office Manager Natural Healthy Concepts www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 11:07:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:07:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <59AB58680055496FA846A691B01C5353@creativesystemdesigns.com> Come on Susan, you are not being strident or offensive enough. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) Susan H. > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 11:48:14 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:48:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around the edges in here. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. > > >> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on >> Surrogate keys. >> >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur >> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Mar 28 12:11:18 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:11:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant><11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <439CD325EED644DDB137F9591CEBD9F7@HAL9005> Except if you see Colby in a helicopter, you might want to walk away quietly...(cf. archives under 'Colbyizing") R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 9:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around the edges in here. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. > > >> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) >> on Surrogate keys. >> >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-betwee >> n-a-sur >> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 28 12:24:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:24:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <439CD325EED644DDB137F9591CEBD9F7@HAL9005> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant><11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> <439CD325EED644DDB137F9591CEBD9F7@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D90C439.9020303@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. Who, *me*? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/28/2011 1:11 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Except if you see Colby in a helicopter, you might want to walk away > quietly...(cf. archives under 'Colbyizing") > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 9:48 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys > > Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around the > edges in here. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: >> I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) >> >> Susan H. >> >> >>> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) >>> on Surrogate keys. >>> >>> >>> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-betwee >>> n-a-sur >>> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 12:30:13 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:30:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant><11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4E4CFECF9F60434EB83A7E8E951FD870@SusanHarkins> No, not you guys -- TR readers. ;) Some have been a tad snarky lately. :) It's been a large hard winter! Susan H. > Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around > the edges in here. From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 14:32:03 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:32:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> Dan, et al. The issue is the report. The original report was quite complex. There are 19 question types, which means a section could be all one type or a combination of several types. The original report had sub-reports for each type and when printed would unhide and expand the appropriate sub-report. The 20th sub-report is a complex report that has a sub-report for each question type. When the report is printed the sub-reports would unhide and expand as needed. Sometimes a sub-report could be used two or more times in different sequences to create a section. The section with more than one question type I call "various" because of various types of questions. The first 3 sections of the questionnaire have various questions. For example, Q1 is a 3-response question with custom responses, Q2 is a fill-in question, Q3 is a 5-response question with custom response, Q4 is self-lookup question with a combo box, Q4 is a two response question with custom response, etc. I separated the first report and made 20 different reports. So when printing, it cycles through the reports and prints them as needed. I have found that to able to print the entire questionnaire, I need to print each section in succession because each section is a different report. If I open the print menu by-itself the entire questionnaire prints. If I "log in" as a researcher, I get the same problem when it attempts to print the second section report. I'm getting closer to solving this conundrum. But, I'm sure where to go from here. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jerbach at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 16:07:50 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:07:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> References: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: Rocky - Thanks! I'm waiting to hear back from the tech temp agency to see if she will truly consider a remote arrangement. (This tech agency is kind of stuffy, and I'm waiting for her to get back to me as to whether or not she can get permission to persue a remote arrangement.) How was Bahrain? San Diego is GORGEOUS. And I got drunk for the first time in 24 years in downtown LaJolla. Must have been the smell of all that money on the air...:) Sorry I missed meeting up with you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I wrote a rather elaborate piece of code behind an Excel 2003 spreadsheet > to > update data in an Access mdb. > > Actually the project was to export data from the Access based accounting > system to a real complex spreadsheet, which would allow the user to tweak > all the numbers, then, when she got it the way she wanted it, import the > data from the spreadsheet back into the Access back end. > > It was all sorts of fun. So I've got the framework and techniques. I'll > give it a shot. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of > thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jerbach at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 16:10:55 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:10:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim - I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a different > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > options > view). > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that it > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > force > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > link-manager etc... > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the DB > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows display > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > macro is run. > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database window" > is checked. > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked so > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a number > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > all > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > objects > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple of > hours to remove. > > HTH > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of > thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Mar 28 16:29:04 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:29:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <44D5D062343C4F909F75F8555F0076F3@HAL9005> Bahrain was an adventure. The work was interesting but the last day I spent with the protesters in Pearl roundabout and went on a protest march with them (child of the 60s - couldn't help myself). Came back with a bunch of work, too! :) Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Rocky - Thanks! I'm waiting to hear back from the tech temp agency to see if she will truly consider a remote arrangement. (This tech agency is kind of stuffy, and I'm waiting for her to get back to me as to whether or not she can get permission to persue a remote arrangement.) How was Bahrain? San Diego is GORGEOUS. And I got drunk for the first time in 24 years in downtown LaJolla. Must have been the smell of all that money on the air...:) Sorry I missed meeting up with you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I wrote a rather elaborate piece of code behind an Excel 2003 > spreadsheet to update data in an Access mdb. > > Actually the project was to export data from the Access based > accounting system to a real complex spreadsheet, which would allow the > user to tweak all the numbers, then, when she got it the way she > wanted it, import the data from the spreadsheet back into the Access back end. > > It was all sorts of fun. So I've got the framework and techniques. > I'll give it a shot. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet > Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: > I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I > install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export > successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my > 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if > it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I > tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there > just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, > and it just won't go! What could be causing this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? > A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind > of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that > type of thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Mar 28 17:18:59 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:18:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant>, <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D910953.9998.13B6433E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Very brave. That'll get her "comment count" up :-) -- Stuart On 28 Mar 2011 at 7:56, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between > -a-sur rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon Mar 28 17:56:46 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:56:46 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ haha, I guess we can all send you some if you really want... :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, 29 March 2011 2:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) Susan H. > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 18:18:17 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:18:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Janet: Without knowing more I would suspect that the main database window has its x and/or y coordinates set off the main viewing area. It is really there just not visible. If you can get to create and edit a form then you also have access to the other database objects by creating a event. Once event has been initiated within the form, you are creating, you can then go and edit that event. This will expose all the other object in the MDB. (Do not quote me on this but there is some old memory that says by pressing it will bring the main database window into view.) Another thing you can do is check out what the macro autoexec does. Just go and select the event section, in the form you have created but this time instead of selecting an event select a macro and pick the "autoexec" macro. Then go in and see if it is making some interest calls...turn them off if need be. (Make sure all the tool bars are displayed etc...) PS: Make sure you have a backup of the anything you change. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Jim - I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a different > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > options > view). > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that it > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > force > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > link-manager etc... > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the DB > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows display > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > macro is run. > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database window" > is checked. > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked so > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a number > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > all > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > objects > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple of > hours to remove. > > HTH > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of > thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 18:22:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:22:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <4D910953.9998.13B6433E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D910953.9998.13B6433E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <6EDFA525E8694320B8DE11BF772C6B3D@creativesystemdesigns.com> I think the bound and unbound subject needs a good article written. ...or what about Microsoft should stop supporting VB code to force all developer to move forward. ...or all SQL developers should require certification before they are even allowed to purchase SQL. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys Very brave. That'll get her "comment count" up :-) -- Stuart On 28 Mar 2011 at 7:56, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between > -a-sur rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 18:33:12 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:33:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) Susan H. >> > haha, I guess we can all send you some if you really want... :) > > > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 29 03:35:39 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:35:39 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: References: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: >> No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) But you do challenge them now, don 't you? :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: 29 ????? 2011 ?. 3:33 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) Susan H. >> > haha, I guess we can all send you some if you really want... :) > > > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 07:53:04 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:53:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <23888176F2534436B0DD9CBB49B53E2D@SusanHarkins> Shamil, I tried to not be bossy. ;) Susan H. >>> No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) > But you do challenge them now, don 't you? :) > From dbdoug at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 10:37:14 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:37:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] pdf output Message-ID: Hello All: I'm using the Lebans code to output pdfs directly from Access. For flexibility, I'd like to use a Where string when the report is generated, but Lebans uses Docmd.OutputTo acReport.... to get his snapshot file, and there is no WhereString parameter. Is there an easy way of doing this, or am I going to have to rework the recordsource for the report before I call the pdf output code? Thanks, Doug From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 29 10:41:01 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:41:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] pdf output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm using his code as well. And the Where string would be handy. But I always put the filters in the report or modify the record source instead of passing a filter as an argument. So I didn't have to solve this one. I'm still having the issue of the code not working when I try it from a second form unless I generate one pdf from the first form - then the second one works. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] pdf output Hello All: I'm using the Lebans code to output pdfs directly from Access. For flexibility, I'd like to use a Where string when the report is generated, but Lebans uses Docmd.OutputTo acReport.... to get his snapshot file, and there is no WhereString parameter. Is there an easy way of doing this, or am I going to have to rework the recordsource for the report before I call the pdf output code? Thanks, Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 11:31:21 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:31:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] pdf output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Rocky. I'm generating these pdfs without operator intervention, so I guess it's going to be recordsource modification. Doug On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 8:41 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I'm using his code as well. ?And the Where string would be handy. ?But I > always put the filters in the report or modify the record source instead of > passing a filter as an argument. ?So I didn't have to solve this one. > > I'm still having the issue of the code not working when I try it from a > second form unless I generate one pdf from the first form - then the second > one works. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:37 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] pdf output > > Hello All: > > I'm using the Lebans code to output pdfs directly from Access. ?For > flexibility, I'd like to use a Where string when the report is generated, > but Lebans uses Docmd.OutputTo acReport.... to get his snapshot file, and > there is no WhereString parameter. > > Is there an easy way of doing this, or am I going to have to rework the > recordsource for the report before I call the pdf output code? > > Thanks, > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jerbach at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 13:31:28 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:31:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim - You're right about 'F11'. I use that all the time. I'll try you're suggestion about the autoexec...thank you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > Without knowing more I would suspect that the main database window has its > x > and/or y coordinates set off the main viewing area. It is really there just > not visible. > > If you can get to create and edit a form then you also have access to the > other database objects by creating a event. Once event has been initiated > within the form, you are creating, you can then go and edit that event. > This > will expose all the other object in the MDB. (Do not quote me on this but > there is some old memory that says by pressing it will bring the main > database window into view.) > > Another thing you can do is check out what the macro autoexec does. Just go > and select the event section, in the form you have created but this time > instead of selecting an event select a macro and pick the "autoexec" macro. > Then go in and see if it is making some interest calls...turn them off if > need be. (Make sure all the tool bars are displayed etc...) > > PS: Make sure you have a backup of the anything you change. > > HTH > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Jim - > > I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I > display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this > 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it > as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any > active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of > Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption > issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... > > Janet > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi Janet: > > > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a > different > > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > > options > view). > > > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that > it > > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > > force > > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > > link-manager etc... > > > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the > DB > > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows > display > > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > > macro is run. > > > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database > window" > > is checked. > > > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked > so > > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a > number > > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > > all > > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > > objects > > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple > of > > hours to remove. > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > > > Hello - > > > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I > install > > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - > I > > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' > data > > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > > temporary > > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into > this > > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > > this? > > > > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type > of > > thing, please let me know. > > > > Thank you! > > > > Janet Erbach > > IT/Office Manager > > Natural Healthy Concepts > > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 29 15:25:31 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:25:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4212BDA0E73B4ABF978E717FE30FB576@creativesystemdesigns.com> Keep me posted Janet. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Jim - You're right about 'F11'. I use that all the time. I'll try you're suggestion about the autoexec...thank you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > Without knowing more I would suspect that the main database window has its > x > and/or y coordinates set off the main viewing area. It is really there just > not visible. > > If you can get to create and edit a form then you also have access to the > other database objects by creating a event. Once event has been initiated > within the form, you are creating, you can then go and edit that event. > This > will expose all the other object in the MDB. (Do not quote me on this but > there is some old memory that says by pressing it will bring the main > database window into view.) > > Another thing you can do is check out what the macro autoexec does. Just go > and select the event section, in the form you have created but this time > instead of selecting an event select a macro and pick the "autoexec" macro. > Then go in and see if it is making some interest calls...turn them off if > need be. (Make sure all the tool bars are displayed etc...) > > PS: Make sure you have a backup of the anything you change. > > HTH > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Jim - > > I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I > display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this > 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it > as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any > active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of > Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption > issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... > > Janet > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi Janet: > > > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a > different > > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > > options > view). > > > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that > it > > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > > force > > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > > link-manager etc... > > > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the > DB > > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows > display > > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > > macro is run. > > > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database > window" > > is checked. > > > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked > so > > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a > number > > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > > all > > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > > objects > > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple > of > > hours to remove. > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > > > Hello - > > > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I > install > > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - > I > > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' > data > > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > > temporary > > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into > this > > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > > this? > > > > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type > of > > thing, please let me know. > > > > Thank you! > > > > Janet Erbach > > IT/Office Manager > > Natural Healthy Concepts > > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 30 10:29:27 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:29:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule Message-ID: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 30 10:30:04 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:30:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys rule Message-ID: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Mar 30 10:41:51 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:41:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Sure do... they rule the 5th level of hell... ;) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 10:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 11:05:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:05:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: ...But where... in a museum? Sorry could not resist. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 8:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 11:53:06 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:53:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: siiiigghhhhhhh, and I thought I was converting him.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 8:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule > > > ;) > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 12:04:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:04:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Sometimes, but only in Access. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:29 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > ;) > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 12:05:05 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:05:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Are you feeling like starting something this morning? Not that I disagree with you. I'm a firm surrogate key believer. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:30 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > ;) > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 30 12:15:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:15:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys rule In-Reply-To: References: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D936539.3020101@colbyconsulting.com> It's been quiet for days. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/30/2011 1:05 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Are you feeling like starting something this morning? Not that I > disagree with you. I'm a firm surrogate key believer. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:30 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> >> ;) >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 14:08:28 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:08:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All: I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the question. On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and back on again the status field updates correctly. The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor some event within code to know that there has been a change to the form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be performed. So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be performed at this point. It does seem that this should be very simple. TIA Jim From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 14:18:44 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:18:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the right event Hi All: I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the question. On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and back on again the status field updates correctly. The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor some event within code to know that there has been a change to the form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be performed. So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be performed at this point. It does seem that this should be very simple. TIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 30 15:01:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 06:01:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4D938C12.15257.1D84FF4F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If Form 2 opened from Form 1? If so, open Form 2 as Modal and trigger the refresh immediately after the docmd.Openform "Form2"? -- Stuart On 30 Mar 2011 at 12:08, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi All: > > I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. > > I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the > question. > > On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. > Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in > form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and > back on again the status field updates correctly. > > The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor > some event within code to know that there has been a change to the > form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be > performed. > > So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to > form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be > performed at this point. > > It does seem that this should be very simple. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 18:51:53 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:51:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> References: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> Thanks for the help Jim and Stuart It was not as simple as initially planned but finally a hack that works: (Believe me, I tried ever other method first...and this is the only one that really works.) '1. Turn off display '2. Set focus to the calling form '3. Save current record position on calling form '4. Set field in calling form to required value '5. Force update to calling form by 'refreshing' record source '6. Position back to appropriate calling form record '7. set focus to modular form '8. Turn on display Dim bolStatusFlag Dim lngInvoiceID As Long Dim rs As Object bolStatusFlag = Me.Closed Application.Echo False [Forms]![Invoice Header].SetFocus lngInvoiceID = [Forms]![Invoice Header].[InvoiceID] ' Set one field... [Forms]![Invoice Header].[Work Description].Locked = bolStatusFlag [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordSource = "Invoice Open" Set rs = [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordsetClone rs.FindFirst "[InvoiceID] = " & lngInvoiceID If Not rs.EOF Then [Forms]![Invoice Header].Bookmark = rs.Bookmark Me.SetFocus Application.Echo True Hope this helps somebody. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right event Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the right event Hi All: I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the question. On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and back on again the status field updates correctly. The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor some event within code to know that there has been a change to the form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be performed. So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be performed at this point. It does seem that this should be very simple. TIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 30 19:03:13 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:03:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com>, <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D93C4C1.5764.1E626D90@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Do you need Form 1 visible when Form 2 is activated? I frequently only let my users see one form at a time. If they don't need to see it, I would just hide Form 1 when Form 2 is opened and unhide it when form 2 is closed rather than turning Echo off. On 30 Mar 2011 at 16:51, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Thanks for the help Jim and Stuart > > It was not as simple as initially planned but finally a hack that > works: (Believe me, I tried ever other method first...and this is the > only one that really works.) > > '1. Turn off display > '2. Set focus to the calling form > '3. Save current record position on calling form > '4. Set field in calling form to required value > '5. Force update to calling form by 'refreshing' record source > '6. Position back to appropriate calling form record > '7. set focus to modular form > '8. Turn on display > > Dim bolStatusFlag > Dim lngInvoiceID As Long > Dim rs As Object > > bolStatusFlag = Me.Closed > > Application.Echo False > [Forms]![Invoice Header].SetFocus > > lngInvoiceID = [Forms]![Invoice Header].[InvoiceID] > > ' Set one field... > [Forms]![Invoice Header].[Work Description].Locked = bolStatusFlag > > [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordSource = "Invoice Open" > > Set rs = [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordsetClone > rs.FindFirst "[InvoiceID] = " & lngInvoiceID > If Not rs.EOF Then [Forms]![Invoice Header].Bookmark = rs.Bookmark > > Me.SetFocus > Application.Echo True > > > Hope this helps somebody. ;-) > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right > event > > Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the > right event > > Hi All: > > I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. > > I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the > question. > > On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. > Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in > form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and > back on again the status field updates correctly. > > The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor > some event within code to know that there has been a change to the > form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be > performed. > > So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to > form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be > performed at this point. > > It does seem that this should be very simple. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Mar 30 19:05:53 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:05:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> Good Luck! By the time you're done with this we'll know who to ask about Access Reporting! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Dan, et al. The issue is the report. The original report was quite complex. There are 19 question types, which means a section could be all one type or a combination of several types. The original report had sub-reports for each type and when printed would unhide and expand the appropriate sub-report. The 20th sub-report is a complex report that has a sub-report for each question type. When the report is printed the sub-reports would unhide and expand as needed. Sometimes a sub-report could be used two or more times in different sequences to create a section. The section with more than one question type I call "various" because of various types of questions. The first 3 sections of the questionnaire have various questions. For example, Q1 is a 3-response question with custom responses, Q2 is a fill-in question, Q3 is a 5-response question with custom response, Q4 is self-lookup question with a combo box, Q4 is a two response question with custom response, etc. I separated the first report and made 20 different reports. So when printing, it cycles through the reports and prints them as needed. I have found that to able to print the entire questionnaire, I need to print each section in succession because each section is a different report. If I open the print menu by-itself the entire questionnaire prints. If I "log in" as a researcher, I get the same problem when it attempts to print the second section report. I'm getting closer to solving this conundrum. But, I'm sure where to go from here. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 19:41:48 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:41:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net><4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <848BE0580B2347C0BA0F2A6CC4EF1F88@HomePC> Thanks, I'm not so sure about being the one to ask about reports. In frustration of not being able to get it done. I've moved on to something else to give the grey matter a rest on the issue. Maybe in a day or two with "fresh" eyes I'll see something. We'll see. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Good Luck! By the time you're done with this we'll know who to ask about Access Reporting! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Dan, et al. The issue is the report. The original report was quite complex. There are 19 question types, which means a section could be all one type or a combination of several types. The original report had sub-reports for each type and when printed would unhide and expand the appropriate sub-report. The 20th sub-report is a complex report that has a sub-report for each question type. When the report is printed the sub-reports would unhide and expand as needed. Sometimes a sub-report could be used two or more times in different sequences to create a section. The section with more than one question type I call "various" because of various types of questions. The first 3 sections of the questionnaire have various questions. For example, Q1 is a 3-response question with custom responses, Q2 is a fill-in question, Q3 is a 5-response question with custom response, Q4 is self-lookup question with a combo box, Q4 is a two response question with custom response, etc. I separated the first report and made 20 different reports. So when printing, it cycles through the reports and prints them as needed. I have found that to able to print the entire questionnaire, I need to print each section in succession because each section is a different report. If I open the print menu by-itself the entire questionnaire prints. If I "log in" as a researcher, I get the same problem when it attempts to print the second section report. I'm getting closer to solving this conundrum. But, I'm sure where to go from here. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 19:47:52 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:47:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <848BE0580B2347C0BA0F2A6CC4EF1F88@HomePC> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> <848BE0580B2347C0BA0F2A6CC4EF1F88@HomePC> Message-ID: Reports with nested subreports can be quite a problem in Access AND in .Net. You can use subreport controls that are not bound to a particular dataset (no master/child links set). That allows you to control which subreports are presented and what the criteria is from code in the parent report/subreport. It isn't simple, but it does get around the problems of all the layers of queries that are run when you process a bound report with nested subs. You also have to be very careful about which event you use, since some of them occur too late to serve any purpose. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 5:41 PM, jm.hwsn wrote: > Thanks, I'm not so sure about being the one to ask about reports. > In frustration of not being able to get it done. > I've moved on to something else to give the grey matter a rest on the issue. > Maybe in a day or two with "fresh" eyes I'll see something. > We'll see. > Thanks, > Jim > From dbdoug at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 21:58:46 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:58:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Message-ID: I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 30 22:06:24 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:06:24 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103310306.p2V36YDm016658@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Stuart McLachlan posted a link warning of this issue on here back in Late Feb, Early March. I am sure the thread below has grown since then, but it was well worth a read back then. '--- copy of email ---- It seems that if you are using ADO and compile under Win7 SP1, your application may no longer work on previous Winodws versions :-( <> '---- End copy ----- cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, 31 March 2011 1:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 22:08:59 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:08:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 30 23:07:23 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:07:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4D93FDFB.32424.1F41F7AA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The other gotcha is if you are using references to 32 bit DLLs. where you may be runing on Oiffice 32bit and 64bit You have to do check the version and use PtrSafe something like this: #If VBA7 Then Declare PtrSafe Function GetUserName Lib "advapi32.dll" Alias "GetUserNameA" (ByVal lpBuffer As String, nSize As Long) As Long #Else Declare Function GetUserName Lib "advapi32.dll" Alias "GetUserNameA" (ByVal lpBuffer As String, nSize As Long) As Long #End If -- Stuart On 30 Mar 2011 at 20:08, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are > being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because > backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we > can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to > watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had > written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has > been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message > indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of > a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I > putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to > work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also > a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn > Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 > SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m > running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time > to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 23:52:34 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:52:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: <4D93C4C1.5764.1E626D90@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D93C4C1.5764.1E626D90@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: No, Form 1 or the caller form stays invisible and the display was turned off so the screen wouldn't flash when moving from form to form...even if the form is invisible there is a small screen shimmer when processing unless the echo is stopped. I tend to be a little overly fussy about these thing. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right event Do you need Form 1 visible when Form 2 is activated? I frequently only let my users see one form at a time. If they don't need to see it, I would just hide Form 1 when Form 2 is opened and unhide it when form 2 is closed rather than turning Echo off. On 30 Mar 2011 at 16:51, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Thanks for the help Jim and Stuart > > It was not as simple as initially planned but finally a hack that > works: (Believe me, I tried ever other method first...and this is the > only one that really works.) > > '1. Turn off display > '2. Set focus to the calling form > '3. Save current record position on calling form > '4. Set field in calling form to required value > '5. Force update to calling form by 'refreshing' record source > '6. Position back to appropriate calling form record > '7. set focus to modular form > '8. Turn on display > > Dim bolStatusFlag > Dim lngInvoiceID As Long > Dim rs As Object > > bolStatusFlag = Me.Closed > > Application.Echo False > [Forms]![Invoice Header].SetFocus > > lngInvoiceID = [Forms]![Invoice Header].[InvoiceID] > > ' Set one field... > [Forms]![Invoice Header].[Work Description].Locked = bolStatusFlag > > [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordSource = "Invoice Open" > > Set rs = [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordsetClone > rs.FindFirst "[InvoiceID] = " & lngInvoiceID > If Not rs.EOF Then [Forms]![Invoice Header].Bookmark = rs.Bookmark > > Me.SetFocus > Application.Echo True > > > Hope this helps somebody. ;-) > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right > event > > Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the > right event > > Hi All: > > I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. > > I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the > question. > > On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. > Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in > form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and > back on again the status field updates correctly. > > The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor > some event within code to know that there has been a change to the > form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be > performed. > > So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to > form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be > performed at this point. > > It does seem that this should be very simple. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 00:01:54 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 22:01:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488C6622A8F54A808D4E7AA886981C89@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Doug: Good one... Another good reason to keep that old XP box around so you can support your XP using clients... of which I have many. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 31 08:05:42 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:05:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just the same as Joe average is being pressured to switch to Windows 7 just to run IE9. It's all about M$ revenue. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 11:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 09:42:56 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:42:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 09:46:30 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:46:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Speaking of the .Net world.... I ran into something the other day in VB.Net In VB 6 (or VBA) if I had a custom class, let's say like this: Public SomeStringProperty As String Dim intSomeNumericValue as Long Property Get SomeNumericValue() as Long SomeNumericValue=intSomeNumericValue End Property I considered both 'SomeStringProperty' and 'SomeNumericValue' as properties of the class. VB.Net does not. If it is defined with a Public variablename As SomeType VB.Net considers it a 'field'. Interesting. Not that it makes a whole hell of a difference now that I know, it drove me nuts while trying to put the 'properties' of a class into a combo box, and couldn't for the life of me figure why it kept returning an empty array! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 10:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 11:30:18 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:30:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 12:33:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:33:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Message-ID: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> Wait, are you calling Drew a turkey??? Charlotte Foust Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Jim Lawrence wrote: >Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) > >Jim > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work >just fine...... > >Web Front End.... > >;) > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele >Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written >using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working >for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO >wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and >I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the >references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this >is probably an example of a known problem: > >http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > >There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in >the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, >an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running >Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. >I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the >problem. > >I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > >Doug >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >person or entity >to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >Business >Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >the sender >immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or >hard copy. >You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >dissemination, >or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information >by persons >or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 12:42:52 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:42:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? Message-ID: Dear List: A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for the new matter. No problem. But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. Anyway, can this be done? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 31 12:47:29 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:47:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Hi Doug, Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running ADO is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on W7SP1? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 12:55:38 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:55:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Message-ID: Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:09:32 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:09:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: I believe so, from reading the discussions. I was able fix the problem by removing the ADO reference on the client machine, compiling (got errors on missing reference) then reinstating the reference and compiling once more. I'm not sure if the first compile step does anything, but it doesn't do any harm. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, > and got it to work. ?Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:17:57 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:17:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Sorry, I mis-read your post. I just tried running the fixed client version (compiled on W7 no SP1) on my computer (W7SP1) without re-compiling and it ran correctly without any errors. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, > and got it to work. ?Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:21:24 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:21:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional > setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the > date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional settings on my box to > U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, > tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND > DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date > is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different syntax for > this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 13:21:28 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:21:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your desktop. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? Dear List: A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for the new matter. No problem. But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. Anyway, can this be done? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:27:20 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:27:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <298669879D2F41AAB1033D9EDD42ED74@BPCS> I am having similar problems with 2 clients. I just moved an ADP Access 2003 from my development machine (Win7 64 SP1 ) to an XP machine, decompiled it, set the reference to activex 2.6 from 2.7 recompiled, repair and compacted and shipped it. It now works on one machine that it did not work on. They will let me know later about the other machines as people start to use the application. What is really strange it always worked on some of their machines and we were not able to find any differences in versions or references. The second client is running it on Windows Server 2003. I have access to it using LogMeIn so will experiment tonight to see if changing the active x reference, or decompile compile on an XP machine or both fixes it. Many other people seem to be removing SP 1 from their development machines, but I'd rather not go backwards, course I've been known to cut off my nose to spite my face. If I learn anything new tonight I'll let you all know. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug Steele" Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:09 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I believe so, from reading the discussions. I was able fix the problem by removing the ADO reference on the client machine, compiling (got errors on missing reference) then reinstating the reference and compiling once more. I'm not sure if the first compile step does anything, but it doesn't do any harm. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running > ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written > using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and > re-compiling, > and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 13:29:41 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:29:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Aha! Thank you. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can it be done? Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your desktop. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? Dear List: A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for the new matter. No problem. But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. Anyway, can this be done? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 13:34:32 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:34:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 13:37:11 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:37:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Actually, when it comes to a web interfaced app, using an .mdb for a backend is just fine. There are only a few times where I would actually recommend a SQL Server Backend: Size limitation. Needs to have another non-web based front end. Needs triggers. Other than that, an .mdb is just fine. Uses less over head, can run just as fast, if not faster, etc. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 13:40:04 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 22:40:04 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 13:49:31 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:49:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 14:08:17 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:08:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> References: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> Message-ID: Ever tangled with a turkey? ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Wait, are you calling Drew a turkey??? Charlotte Foust Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Jim Lawrence wrote: >Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) > >Jim > > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 31 14:19:56 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:19:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Message-ID: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two e-mails for each post. Jim. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 14:22:55 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:22:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? In-Reply-To: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> References: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Message-ID: We're just trying to make sure you read what's important! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:20 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two e-mails for each post. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 14:37:05 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:37:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? In-Reply-To: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> References: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Message-ID: No. Not me. No. Not me. Thought I would save time answering them both. ;-) GK On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? > > Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two > e-mails for each post. > > Jim. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 15:54:14 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:54:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> References: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> Message-ID: <82074F87D17547B884F8B5DEF0F70515@creativesystemdesigns.com> Does he look like a turkey to you? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Wait, are you calling Drew a turkey??? Charlotte Foust Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Jim Lawrence wrote: >Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) > >Jim > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work >just fine...... > >Web Front End.... > >;) > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele >Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written >using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working >for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO >wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and >I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the >references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this >is probably an example of a known problem: > >http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > >There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in >the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, >an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running >Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. >I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the >problem. > >I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > >Doug >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >person or entity >to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >Business >Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >the sender >immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or >hard copy. >You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >dissemination, >or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information >by persons >or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 31 15:59:14 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:59:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? In-Reply-To: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> References: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Message-ID: <000001cbefe6$7ed64800$7c82d800$@winhaven.net> Hi Jim, Please contact Bryan off-list and see if he can help you through this: carbonnb at gmail.com John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:20 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two e-mails for each post. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 16:00:33 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:00:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <298669879D2F41AAB1033D9EDD42ED74@BPCS> References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> <298669879D2F41AAB1033D9EDD42ED74@BPCS> Message-ID: <3DC08DF7E4AF4E8E82B48E9BA91BD48A@creativesystemdesigns.com> I have to do that with a number of clients. Upload the source, remove the references, re-add the reference and then compile...two passes usually solves the issues. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I am having similar problems with 2 clients. I just moved an ADP Access 2003 from my development machine (Win7 64 SP1 ) to an XP machine, decompiled it, set the reference to activex 2.6 from 2.7 recompiled, repair and compacted and shipped it. It now works on one machine that it did not work on. They will let me know later about the other machines as people start to use the application. What is really strange it always worked on some of their machines and we were not able to find any differences in versions or references. The second client is running it on Windows Server 2003. I have access to it using LogMeIn so will experiment tonight to see if changing the active x reference, or decompile compile on an XP machine or both fixes it. Many other people seem to be removing SP 1 from their development machines, but I'd rather not go backwards, course I've been known to cut off my nose to spite my face. If I learn anything new tonight I'll let you all know. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug Steele" Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:09 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I believe so, from reading the discussions. I was able fix the problem by removing the ADO reference on the client machine, compiling (got errors on missing reference) then reinstating the reference and compiling once more. I'm not sure if the first compile step does anything, but it doesn't do any harm. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running > ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written > using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and > re-compiling, > and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 16:14:45 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:14:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <306D1109AFF8409ABCC85B353B18FDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Drew: I have never had any bad experiences from an Access BE web site but according to one of the trainers from Wintellect, a Microsoft bases training company, from which I took a week of lecture course, a few years ago, at Redmond; he said the an Access BE was very dangerous because it was prone to insertion attacked. He said he could hack any Access BE in 5 minutes. Whether that was true or not I have no idea but I have never used an Access BE, for a web site, since. On a pinch I have used MySQL and now MS SQL Express when no major SQL DB BE is available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Actually, when it comes to a web interfaced app, using an .mdb for a backend is just fine. There are only a few times where I would actually recommend a SQL Server Backend: Size limitation. Needs to have another non-web based front end. Needs triggers. Other than that, an .mdb is just fine. Uses less over head, can run just as fast, if not faster, etc. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 16:20:08 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:20:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: PS: It is interseting as a Redmond training seminar is starting at the MS college at the end of May and Wintellect will be the teachers. http://view.exacttarget.com/?j=fe5d1572706c0d787615&m=ff001675756503&ls=fe32 11737763047a751170&l=feef11747c610d&s=fe961173716c047875&jb=ffcf14&ju=fe2f15 717265047b7c1271 I believe Jeffrey Richter was the trainers who warned against an Access BE so you can always pop him an email and ask hime why and how. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Actually, when it comes to a web interfaced app, using an .mdb for a backend is just fine. There are only a few times where I would actually recommend a SQL Server Backend: Size limitation. Needs to have another non-web based front end. Needs triggers. Other than that, an .mdb is just fine. Uses less over head, can run just as fast, if not faster, etc. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 16:24:10 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:24:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <306D1109AFF8409ABCC85B353B18FDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <306D1109AFF8409ABCC85B353B18FDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hmmm, I would be curious as to how that is done. Actually, the SQL Insertion issue is due to SQL code having comment capabilities, and Access SQL doesn't allow comments. Plus, for this kind of vulnerability, your code has to literally use client created data directly in an SQL statement, which is a bad habit no matter what database you are using. I am curious as to how the .mdb would be setup to allow an 'insertion attack'. In the web interfaces I have designed, the backend is not visible in any way, except for the pages I create. Part one of that is to NOT have the .mdb in a visible location on the webserver. It is accessible to IIS, but not the user. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Hi Drew: I have never had any bad experiences from an Access BE web site but according to one of the trainers from Wintellect, a Microsoft bases training company, from which I took a week of lecture course, a few years ago, at Redmond; he said the an Access BE was very dangerous because it was prone to insertion attacked. He said he could hack any Access BE in 5 minutes. Whether that was true or not I have no idea but I have never used an Access BE, for a web site, since. On a pinch I have used MySQL and now MS SQL Express when no major SQL DB BE is available. Jim The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 16:36:42 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 07:36:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4D94F3EA.16525.2302A4BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Wouldn't that make every other form in the same application topmost as well? On 31 Mar 2011 at 13:21, Drew Wutka wrote: > Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do > this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are > subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than > regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will > put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the > ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access > window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your > desktop. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? > > Dear List: > > A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time > keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various > clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer > changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and > starts running the clock for the new matter. > > No problem. > > But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer > is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch > their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to > go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen > windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I > guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd > want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the > phone - things like that. > > Anyway, can this be done? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 16:40:02 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:40:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: <4D94F3EA.16525.2302A4BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4D94F3EA.16525.2302A4BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Yes, but only if they were open and set as 'popup'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can it be done? Wouldn't that make every other form in the same application topmost as well? On 31 Mar 2011 at 13:21, Drew Wutka wrote: > Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do > this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are > subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than > regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will > put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the > ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access > window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your > desktop. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? > > Dear List: > > A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time > keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various > clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer > changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and > starts running the clock for the new matter. > > No problem. > > But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer > is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch > their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to > go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen > windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I > guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd > want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the > phone - things like that. > > Anyway, can this be done? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 16:40:52 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 07:40:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> References: , , <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D94F4E4.2878.2306749A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You need make the Format "mm/dd/yy" not "dd/mm/yy" But I generally do it like this instead: DueDate >=DateValue("' & txtGEDueDate & "') AND .... -- Stuart On 31 Mar 2011 at 11:34, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to > mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table > using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various > filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I > send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume > from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is > dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. > and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO > tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) > SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to > filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of > the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in > tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why > doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax > for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 16:58:24 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 01:58:24 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 17:39:59 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:39:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: That is, unless the backend may be SQL Server, in which case, the delimiter is a single quote. We used to run into that issue in .Net, so we built a function to return the date string formatted with the correct delimiter depending on which database was in use. Easy enough to create a function to format any date to US format as well. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Rocky -- > Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be > enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 17:41:06 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:41:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: He's trying to reinvent all the timer programs already on the market. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping > form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal > matters. ?So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current > matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for > the new matter. > > No problem. > > But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is > working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their > timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to > the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and > finding the access app would be awkward for them. ?I guess if a lawyer is > working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from > the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. > > Anyway, can this be done? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 17:41:57 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 02:41:57 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter References: Message-ID: Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Mar 31 18:00:48 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:00:48 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> Message-ID: <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Rocky, To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:03:08 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:03:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: Shamil: When I create those SQL strings I usually load them into a text box on the form before I execute them so I can see what it looks like and copy it out to a query if I need to run it. Stuart suggest DateValue. Better or worse than Format? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Mar 31 18:05:08 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 01:05:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: If supposed to be a poll then: Bound form - no & yes (depends) Surrogate keys - yes (always) Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af jwcolby Sendt: 30. marts 2011 17:29 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Bound forms rule ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:06:22 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:06:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 18:07:33 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:07:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Actually I think it is the Japanese that got it right with YYYYMMDD On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I > process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory > the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, > regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of > "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date > format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and > adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of > the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, > tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND > DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in > the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > Dear List: > > > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional > > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records > with no date filtering. > > > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. > > > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > > > Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different > > syntax for this filter? > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is > intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any > review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in > reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete > this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or > distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the > permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Mar 31 18:20:40 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:20:40 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Rocky, Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to align like this you get around the regional issues. '========================================= iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") iM = Format(Now(), "mm") iD = Format(Now(), "dd") dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) gstrSQL = vbnullstring gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" ' do what ever here with gstrSQL '========================================= -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 18:38:43 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 09:38:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> References: , <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D951083.4367.23725895@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Or you can replace your entire code example with: gstrSQL = "SELECT" & _ " pk_lngFYPID" & _ " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" & _ " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" & _ " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" & _ " WHERE dteCalDate = Date()" or if you want a variable date: dteMyDate = Date() gstrSQL = "SELECT" & _ " pk_lngFYPID" & _ " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" & _ " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" & _ " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" & _ " WHERE dteCalDate = DateValue('" & dteMyDate & "')" On 1 Apr 2011 at 10:20, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Rocky, > > Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to > align like this you get around the regional issues. > > '========================================= > > iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") > iM = Format(Now(), "mm") > iD = Format(Now(), "dd") > > dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) > > gstrSQL = vbnullstring > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" > > ' do what ever here with gstrSQL > > '========================================= > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Shamil: > > I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the > text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Un-American Date Filter > > Rocky -- > > <<>> I should have > written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to > convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it > could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer > as in this case: > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 > > when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result > was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't > conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of > April 1st, 2011... > > And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both > results are "correct": > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 > > I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which > is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) > should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on > systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your > system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get > CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't > know what happens "behind the curtains" > > On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale > you'll get opposite to my first sample results: > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 > > And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using > system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's > textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... > > Hope that helps. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] > Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Hi Rocky -- > > <<< > IT'S WORKING!!! > >>> > Great! > > <<< > Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. > >>> > Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's > criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression > string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? > > I haven't seen your code but from your description using > > Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") > > should be enough, while using > > CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) > > could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" > (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from > its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate > window: > > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 > > Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should > be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Shamil: > > I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S > WORKING!!! > > I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). > Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Thank you one and all. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Un-American Date Filter > > Rocky -- > > SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code > SQL expression should be: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as > dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:44:48 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:44:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Rocky, To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:47:48 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:47:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Clever. That goes in the library. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Rocky, Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to align like this you get around the regional issues. '========================================= iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") iM = Format(Now(), "mm") iD = Format(Now(), "dd") dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) gstrSQL = vbnullstring gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" ' do what ever here with gstrSQL '========================================= -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 19:07:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 10:07:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005>, <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com>, Message-ID: <4D951742.9055.238CB2F4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I remember when New Zealand went metric with its currency back in the '70s. A friend was going overseas and was told by another friend that we were changing over to metric time next and was asked if could he bring back a metric watch. -- Stuart On 31 Mar 2011 at 16:44, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date > I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from > memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as > default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land > of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper > date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were > right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life > for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to > mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table > using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various > filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I > send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume > from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is > dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. > and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date > filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to > filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of > the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in > tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why > doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax > for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Mar 31 19:08:48 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:08:48 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201104010008.p3108tCf004748@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ hahahaha! - Nah, just having a rant about the perils of the crazy imperial measurement that the US still uses. I actually agree with David (and the Japanese). "YYYYMMDD" makes the most sense of all, well to me at least. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Rocky, To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 19:31:37 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:31:37 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <600980DF5A124F1196B53B3C97844B0F@nant> Darryl -- <<< gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" >>> It will not work properly - you have to use it this way: gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & Format(dteNow,"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#))" Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Rocky, Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to align like this you get around the regional issues. '========================================= iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") iM = Format(Now(), "mm") iD = Format(Now(), "dd") dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) gstrSQL = vbnullstring gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" ' do what ever here with gstrSQL '========================================= -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 19:29:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 10:29:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201104010008.p3108tCf004748@databaseadvisors.com> References: , <201104010008.p3108tCf004748@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D951C75.28793.23A10355@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It's not just Japanese, it's the internationally accepted standard in ISO 8601. Unfortunately the UScentric developers of Access and SQL Server ignore the international standard and use an internationally ambiguous format instead. -- Stuart On 1 Apr 2011 at 11:08, Darryl Collins wrote: > hahahaha! - Nah, just having a rant about the perils of the crazy > imperial measurement that the US still uses. I actually agree with > David (and the Japanese). "YYYYMMDD" makes the most sense of all, > well to me at least. > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:45 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date > I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from > memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as > default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land > of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper > date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were > right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life > for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to > mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table > using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various > filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I > send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume > from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is > dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. > and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date > filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to > filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of > the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in > tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why > doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax > for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 19:51:53 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:51:53 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17D5DE47E46B410D9E49229C7380D910@nant> Rocky -- I used DateSerial just to make it clear what date values are used in my samples. You don't need to use DateSerial(...) I suppose. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:06 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 19:51:53 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:51:53 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: <6A91DCB27D504B088721CA90B1438F0F@nant> Rocky -- You don't need DateValue. Are your source textboxes bound to Date type tables' fields? If yes - then just Format( .., "mm/dd/yyyy".) 'quoted' into pair of '#' would be enough. If your source textboxes do have String type values and that values are system locale format dependent then you can use: mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(CDate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(Cate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(DateValue(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or again just mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" all the above will work OK but mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CVDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & DateValue(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" wouldn't be correct as SQL "knows" only American date format and CDate(...), CVDate(....), DateValue(...) will return date formatted using system locale date format... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:03 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: When I create those SQL strings I usually load them into a text box on the form before I execute them so I can see what it looks like and copy it out to a query if I need to run it. Stuart suggest DateValue. Better or worse than Format? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 22:02:09 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:02:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <6A91DCB27D504B088721CA90B1438F0F@nant> References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> <6A91DCB27D504B088721CA90B1438F0F@nant> Message-ID: <00A125070CFA4A229129B0E700EDA75F@HAL9005> Thank YOU! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- You don't need DateValue. Are your source textboxes bound to Date type tables' fields? If yes - then just Format( .., "mm/dd/yyyy".) 'quoted' into pair of '#' would be enough. If your source textboxes do have String type values and that values are system locale format dependent then you can use: mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(CDate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(Cate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(DateValue(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or again just mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" all the above will work OK but mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CVDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & DateValue(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" wouldn't be correct as SQL "knows" only American date format and CDate(...), CVDate(....), DateValue(...) will return date formatted using system locale date format... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:03 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: When I create those SQL strings I usually load them into a text box on the form before I execute them so I can see what it looks like and copy it out to a query if I need to run it. Stuart suggest DateValue. Better or worse than Format? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 23:44:44 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:44:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: <69BC808F88F94EE6876E6453545100DF@creativesystemdesigns.com> How does everyone connect to their data on their SQL server? I have never done any other method than by passing parameters and calling the appropriate SP. Does everyone else actually just send sql strings? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter That is, unless the backend may be SQL Server, in which case, the delimiter is a single quote. We used to run into that issue in .Net, so we built a function to return the date string formatted with the correct delimiter depending on which database was in use. Easy enough to create a function to format any date to US format as well. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Rocky -- > Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be > enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 23:54:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:54:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <8BF2D525226E4849A29667C757BEDFB9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Actually, our government (federal and provincial) uses yyyymmdd which sorts as a string, a number or as a date without any translation. The other date standard they use is dd Mmm yyyy; ie. 01 May 2011 so there is never any confusion between month and day...and again everything is in sequential order. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Actually I think it is the Japanese that got it right with YYYYMMDD On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I > process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory > the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, > regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of > "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date > format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and > adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of > the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, > tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND > DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in > the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > Dear List: > > > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional > > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records > with no date filtering. > > > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. > > > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > > > Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different > > syntax for this filter? > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is > intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any > review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in > reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete > this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or > distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the > permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 07:35:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 08:35:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <7274EFBBD39B45EF8BCD9CF855DDC414@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D6CF626.2050406@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. Anyone binding 7 million records to a form using any data store needs to be in a different business. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 4:13 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > A few small tables and limited number of users it's fine. > > Try over 50 concurrent operators inserting/updating records in tables with up to 7 million > rows with multiple large lookup tables on that data. At the same time have a number of > others users pulling summaries of that data. Not fine. :-) > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 07:42:24 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 08:42:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> My advice for small databases is to simply upsize your big mac and be done with it. Oh... that's my McDonalds order. Upsize your tables to SQL Server and be done with it. Easier said than done in some cases, quite trivial in others. My point really is that for *small* databases (back ends), simple ODBC links to the data sitting in SQL Server will get you there instantly. Then you can play around with more esoteric things like binding the forms and combos to pass through queries and the like - assuming > A2K of course. The bigger problem I found was understanding enough about SQL Server security to make the process painless. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 1:09 PM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > Thank you all again, I am quickly learning many things from your responses. > I am just an old fart trying to play catch up with you guys (Oops and gals). > I am trying to learn how to do things with a SQL Server back end, by trying to duplicate what I can > do with an old MDB back end application. I am finding at times when doing my research on the > Internet that I will read "Do it this way" and then next read "No don't do it that way do it this > way". Also when I complete one task I think "Now how can I do this slighty different", this becomes > quite frustrating, after 2 to 3 hours of reading other forum responses and basically finding no > "hits", I will find some esoteric little example, usually not on topic, that finally simply > describes how to do what I was looking for. > Anyway this is my problem to solve, thank you again for your all your help. Onward and upward. This > is a scary path. > From df.waters at comcast.net Tue Mar 1 07:50:42 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 07:50:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OutputTo Bug in Library in Access 2007 Message-ID: <001201cbd817$a87ec9c0$f97c5d40$@comcast.net> A couple of weeks ago someone posted a problem with DoCmd.OutputTo, and a few days ago I came across a related bug introduced in Access 2007. I don't have Access 2010 - perhaps someone can see if the problem still exists there. If you have a procedure in a referenced Library file that outputs an object, where the object is stored in the Main file, you'll get an error. This worked fine in Access 2003, but fails in Access 2007. The help files in both versions say that Access looks in the Library first, then in the Main file. This is a workaround that I've tested. As an example, this procedure can be called by either the Library or the Main files, and determines which file the object is in. If the object is in the Main file, then the procedure uses CurrentProject.Application.DoCmd.OutputTo, which bypasses the bug. HTH! Dan '-------------------------------------- Public Sub LibraryOutput(intObjectType As Integer, stgObjectName As String, varOutputFormat As Variant, stgAccessObjectPath As String) '-- Purpose: This will take an Access Object for output from a referenced Library file. _ If the object is in the CurrentProject, then DoCmd.OutputTo won't see that object _ due to a bug introduced in Access 2007. _ However, using CurrentProject.Application.DoCmd.OutputTo in the library will work. Dim aob As AccessObject Dim blnReportInLibrary As Boolean '-- Is this report in the Library? For Each aob In CodeProject.AllReports If aob.Name = stgObjectName Then blnReportInLibrary = True End If Next aob '-- Output report from the file it's in If blnReportInLibrary = True Then DoCmd.OutputTo intObjectType, stgObjectName, varOutputFormat, stgAccessObjectPath Else CurrentProject.Application.DoCmd.OutputTo intObjectType, stgObjectName, varOutputFormat, stgAccessObjectPath End If End Sub '-------------------------------------- From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 09:47:30 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 10:47:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <89146180C53B4BBD9354BF816DB6D5B3@XPS> Not sure if I posted this in the past, but there are some great tid-bits in here on the use of an SQL backend: http://www.jstreettech.com/cartgenie/pg_developerDownloads.asp Download "The best of both worlds..." Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 08:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My advice for small databases is to simply upsize your big mac and be done with it. Oh... that's my McDonalds order. Upsize your tables to SQL Server and be done with it. Easier said than done in some cases, quite trivial in others. My point really is that for *small* databases (back ends), simple ODBC links to the data sitting in SQL Server will get you there instantly. Then you can play around with more esoteric things like binding the forms and combos to pass through queries and the like - assuming > A2K of course. The bigger problem I found was understanding enough about SQL Server security to make the process painless. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 1:09 PM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > Thank you all again, I am quickly learning many things from your responses. > I am just an old fart trying to play catch up with you guys (Oops and gals). > I am trying to learn how to do things with a SQL Server back end, by trying to duplicate what I can > do with an old MDB back end application. I am finding at times when doing my research on the > Internet that I will read "Do it this way" and then next read "No don't do it that way do it this > way". Also when I complete one task I think "Now how can I do this slighty different", this becomes > quite frustrating, after 2 to 3 hours of reading other forum responses and basically finding no > "hits", I will find some esoteric little example, usually not on topic, that finally simply > describes how to do what I was looking for. > Anyway this is my problem to solve, thank you again for your all your help. Onward and upward. This > is a scary path. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 10:41:40 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 08:41:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <004501cbd6c7$6dd32060$49796120$@comcast.net> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE00E@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> <4D6AD2FE.8187.124E85B2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7274EFBBD39B45EF8BCD9CF855DDC414@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Cringe away, it seems to work just fine. Until I see evidence to the contrary... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 10:56 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Years ago I dropped a table in error, on a live MS SQL DB...had about 50 > users on at the time. Added the table and re-populated in about 5 minutes > and only 1 person complained about the BE being slower and having to do a > refresh. Real SQL DBs are very rugged...everything is just queued, cached > and applied through background processes. > > The one thing is that a Real SQL DB is not just another MDB...there is > little or no resemblance other than the both hold data. (Not wanting to get > into a heated discussion, I must admit I cringe every time I hear of someone > attempting a bound MS SQL DB.) > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Both? > > When did you ever have to kick users out of Access or any other multi-user > DBMS to make > data changes? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 10:49:32 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 08:49:32 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <7274EFBBD39B45EF8BCD9CF855DDC414@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: If John makes his new applications work stability, I will truly be delighted. If they do not, I promise to try to resist the temtation to say "I told you so". ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server A few small tables and limited number of users it's fine. Try over 50 concurrent operators inserting/updating records in tables with up to 7 million rows with multiple large lookup tables on that data. At the same time have a number of others users pulling summaries of that data. Not fine. :-) -- Stuart On 28 Feb 2011 at 12:01, jwcolby wrote: > Cringe away, it seems to work just fine. Until I see evidence to the > contrary... > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 2/28/2011 10:56 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Years ago I dropped a table in error, on a live MS SQL DB...had > > about 50 users on at the time. Added the table and re-populated in > > about 5 minutes and only 1 person complained about the BE being > > slower and having to do a refresh. Real SQL DBs are very > > rugged...everything is just queued, cached and applied through > > background processes. > > > > The one thing is that a Real SQL DB is not just another MDB...there > > is little or no resemblance other than the both hold data. (Not > > wanting to get into a heated discussion, I must admit I cringe every > > time I hear of someone attempting a bound MS SQL DB.) > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > > Access and SQL Server > > > > Both? > > > > When did you ever have to kick users out of Access or any other > > multi-user DBMS to make data changes? > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 10:54:52 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 08:54:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <201102282241.p1SMfaRg026442@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <201102282241.p1SMfaRg026442@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: So what is your opinion about using asynchronous or synchronous connection to a MS SQL BE from an Access FE? You would definitely be the man and could put this whole controversy to rest. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ "Are any of your developing full blown ACCESS/SQL Server applications for clients? If so what type of an app is it?" When I was at Coles Group a year or so back I was part of a team of developers that built and maintained a whole suite of custom applications that were built on a common template. All the apps were based on a template which in turn was based on a SQL Server BE with MS Access FE (mde of course). We were starting to move any new apps to a web UI and away from MS Access. Many of these apps were critical for the day to day running of large national retail businesses. To give you some idea Coles Group is one of Australia's largest retailers with more than 2,600 stores throughout Australia and New Zealand, over 400,000 shareholders and more than 190,000 employees. My good friend Beny build a complex logistics app, which was used for scheduling all store deliveries based on availablity and type of truck (Some trucks can only fit in certain bays for example, some truck have to be in the cold store etc). Damn clever with a great UI. Some of these apps had hundreds of concurrent users 24/7, although many also lead a far less demanding life. The financial control system I build had about 50 users over a WAN. It was fast, stable and accurate. Gotta love that :) The big advantage was even though each application was build for a totally different purpose, it had a common platform and build, which meant that any of the development team could work on it if the main developer was away or busy. I miss working with SQL Server. Current role is 100% access based. Feel a bit left behind to be honest... :-/ cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Monday, 28 February 2011 11:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hey All Thanks I have got to try out Stuart suggestion for updating stored procedures in SQL Server using ACCESS. I am not finding any significant differences in speed when using ACCESS tables and queries versus SQL Server tables and pass through queries, I assume that is because I am doing my testing on my local machine and not on a network (or Web). Are any of your developing full blown ACCESS/SQL Server applications for clients? If so what type of an app is it? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 11:17:24 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 09:17:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the problem with the invoice. It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple invoice details. The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a classic case of why you should not use a natural key as your PK. What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer an accurate short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the description (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" turned on.) -- Stuart On 28 Feb 2011 at 17:36, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > <> > > Occasionally on a lookup table if a client insists on having a short > code > along with a description. Then I do this: > > LookupCode - Text - PK > Description - Text > > as I don't see any sense in doing this: > > LookupID - Autonumber - PK > Code - Text - CK > Description - Text > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 11:47:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 12:47:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 11:55:40 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 12:55:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: NOW THIS IS COOL !!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D6D331C.9050107@colbyconsulting.com> John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Stephen Joy wrote: > > *THIS IS INTERESTING.......... PLEASE FORWARD TO YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES... * > *Click on the year you were born and read the news for that year. > ** > _1900_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1900.html ) > _1901_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1901.html ) > _1902_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1902.html ) > _1903_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1903.html ) > _1904_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1904.html ) > _1905_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1905.html ) > _1906_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1906.html ) _* > *1907_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1907.html > _1908_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1908.html ) > _1909_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1909.html ) > _1910_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1910.html) > _1911_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1911.html ) > _1912_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1912.html ) > _1913_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1913.html ) > _1914_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1914.html ) > _1915_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1915.html ) > _1916_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1916.html ) > _1917_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1917.html ) > _1918_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1918.html ) > _1919_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1919.html ) > _1920_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1920.html ) > _1921_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1921.html ) > _1922_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1922.html ) > _1923_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1923.html ) > _1924_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1924.html ) > _1925_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1925.html ) > _1926_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1926.html ) > _1927_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1927.html ) > _1928_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1928.html ) > _1929_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1929.html ) > _1930_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1930.html ) > _1931_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1931.html ) > _1932_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1932.html ) > _1933_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1933.html ) > _1934_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1934.html ) > _1935_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1935.html ) > _1936_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1936.html ) > _1937_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1937.html ) > _1938_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1938.html ) > _1939_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1939.html ) > _1940_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1940.html ) > _1941_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1941.html ) > _1942_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1942.html ) > _1943_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1943.html ) > _1944_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1944.html ) > _1945_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1945.html ) > _1946_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1946.html ) > _1947_ ( http://www..infoplease.com/year/1947.html ) > _1948_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1948.html ) > _1949_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1949.html ) > _1950_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1950.html ) > _1951_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1951.html ) > _1952_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1952.html ) > _1953_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1953.html ) > _1954_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1954.html ) > _1955_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1955.html ) > _1956_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1956.html ) > _1957_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1957.html ) > _1958_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1958.html ) > _1959_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1959.html ) > _1960_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1960.html ) > _1961_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1961.html ) > _1962_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1962.html ) > _1963_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1963.html ) > _1964_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1964.html ) > _1965_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1965.html ) > _1966_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1966.html ) > _1967_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1967....html ) > _1968_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1968.html ) > _1969_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1969.html ) > _1970_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1970.html ) > _1971_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1971.html ) > _1972_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1972.html ) > _1973_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1973.html ) > _1974_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1974.html ) > _1975_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1975.html ) > _1976_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1976.html ) > _1977_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1977.html ) > _1978_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1978.html ) > _1979_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1979.html ) > _1980_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1980.html ) > _1981_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1981.html ) > _1982_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1982.html ) > _1983_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1983.html ) > _1984_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1984.html ) > _1985_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1985.html ) ; > _1986_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1986.html ) > _1987_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1987.html ) > _1988_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1988.html ) > _1989_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1989.html ) > _1990_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1990. html ) > _1991_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1991.html ) > _1992_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1992.html ) > _1993_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1993.html ) > _1994_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1994.html ) > _1995_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1995.html ) > _1996_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1996.html ) > _1997_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1997.html ) > _1998_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1998.html ) > _1999_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1999.html ) > _2000_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2000.html ) > _2001_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2001.html ) > _2002_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2002.html ) > _2003_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2003.html ) > _2004_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2004.html ) > _2005_ (http://www.infoplease.com/year/2005.html ) > _2006_ (http://www.infoplease.com/year/2006..html ;* > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > * From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 12:08:05 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 10:08:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I do too. On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:47 AM, jwcolby wrote: > When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an > autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need > an autonumber pk! > > I then proceed to create the fields. > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 12:37:23 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 13:37:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <0DF5844BACEB481BA6609F13FFECD526@XPS> <> That's really not true. A proper design, natural key or not would have solved the issue. <> Neither do I, but that's simply for performance reasons. However it does mean that I need to maintain one additional index in a lot of cases. JimD. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the problem with the invoice. It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple invoice details. The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a classic case of why you should not use a natural key as your PK. What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer an accurate short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the description (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" turned on.) -- Stuart On 28 Feb 2011 at 17:36, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > <> > > Occasionally on a lookup table if a client insists on having a short > code > along with a description. Then I do this: > > LookupCode - Text - PK > Description - Text > > as I don't see any sense in doing this: > > LookupID - Autonumber - PK > Code - Text - CK > Description - Text > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 12:40:26 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 13:40:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue Mar 1 12:50:06 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 13:50:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 13:12:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 14:12:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than one would think. If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > So on a many to many linking table you would do this: > > tblBooksAndAuthors > LinkID - Autonumber - PK > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B > > And not simply: > > tblBooksAndAuthors > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B > > and eliminate an index? If so, why not? > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an > autoincrement PK. I no > longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! > > I then proceed to create the fields. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the >> problem with the invoice. >> >> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By >> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from > multiple >> invoice details. >> >> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it >> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan >> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >> classic case of why >> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >> >> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no > longer >> an accurate >> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the >> tables which store it >> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >> description >> >> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" >> turned on.) >> >> From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 1 13:34:15 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 22:34:15 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: <0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 14:22:56 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 15:22:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: Lambert, It needs a unique index, which the Author/Book combination provides. Not sure why the original post got formatted that way, but it should have looked like this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B Which might be clearer. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 01:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 15:12:28 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 16:12:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Curriculum Developer Message-ID: <599FB9B49B8A40A29D6D4108223FD487@SusanHarkins> I've got a reader trying to convert XCH formatted files (something called Curriculum Developer) to Access. Only built-in options saves partial data to text, but not all the data. Anyone familiar with this product or format? Susan H. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 15:30:25 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 07:30:25 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6D6571.14018.1C5A9937@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I agree. On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:42, jwcolby wrote: > > Upsize your tables to SQL Server and be done with it. Easier said > than done in some cases, quite trivial in others. > > My point really is that for *small* databases (back ends), simple ODBC > links to the data sitting in SQL Server will get you there instantly. > Then you can play around with more esoteric things like binding the > forms and combos to pass through queries and the like - assuming > A2K > of course. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 15:46:13 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 07:46:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com>, Message-ID: <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous operations. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 16:55:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 14:55:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <218527AECE044853B16161144994FADB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Good plan John. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 9:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 17:01:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 15:01:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Stuart: I must have missed your point but it is a great article. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous operations. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 17:09:40 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:09:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> My point was that I disagree with the statement "Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous". SQL Server function primarily using synchronous connections - whan you request a recordset, you wait for it to be returned. -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:01, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > I must have missed your point but it is a great article. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:46 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. > > MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous > operations. > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx > > > Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform > for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including > an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database > makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that > were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > -- > Stuart > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 17:26:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 15:26:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My point was that I disagree with the statement "Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous". SQL Server function primarily using synchronous connections - whan you request a recordset, you wait for it to be returned. -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:01, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > I must have missed your point but it is a great article. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:46 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. > > MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous > operations. > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx > > > Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform > for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including > an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database > makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that > were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > -- > Stuart > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 1 17:49:41 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:49:41 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <201103012349.p21NnoGD001965@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Ditto. I don't even ask if it is what the client wants. I know they will need it one day. Had a classic case of this sort of thing where I work. Been banging on at some folks here since November that their "It is our source of truth and there is nothing wrong with it" XL Spreadsheet is going to cause them (severe) grief sometime soon as their role expands. 5 months later they have decided that perhaps they do need to talk to me after all... aaaah, the sound of little light bulbs going "ping!". Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2011 4:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 17:55:12 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:55:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> See inline. On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data > is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any > difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request > is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then > retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the > data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it also works asynchronously: >From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a95265/wfapi11.htm A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous process is a process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. -- Stuart > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 18:21:04 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 19:21:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Message-ID: Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 18:29:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:29:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Win7Sp1 and ADO In-Reply-To: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D6D8F84.26700.1CFEF5CB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It seems that if you are using ADO and compile under Win7 SP1, your application may no longer work on previous Winodws versions :-( http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en- US/windowsgeneraldevelopmentissues/thread/3a4ce946-effa-4f77-98a6-34f11c6b5a13 -- Stuart From delam at zyterra.com Tue Mar 1 20:17:54 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie Elam) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 20:17:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use them for the following reasons: 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short code based on the name has changed (sigh). 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the relationship is crap without cascade updates. 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. Debbie On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I > need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than > one would think. > > If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >> create an >> autoincrement PK. I no >> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! >> >> I then proceed to create the fields. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>> discovered the >>> problem with the invoice. >>> >>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>> tables. By >>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >> multiple >>> invoice details. >>> >>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>> but it >>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>> temptation. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >>> classic case of why >>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>> >>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no >> longer >>> an accurate >>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>> all the >>> tables which store it >>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >>> description >>> >>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>> Update" >>> turned on.) >>> >>> From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 02:13:13 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:13:13 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com><9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 02:18:01 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:18:01 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart -- <<< That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. >>> But waiting "for the remote server to respond" in the case of AJAX doesn't mean stopping/blocking browser - such a waiting mean asynchronous "listening" for MS SQL to process (a set of) SQL requests, and when any one of the latter is ready asynchronously process its result (set). Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 2:55 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server See inline. On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data > is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any > difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request > is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then > retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the > data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it also works asynchronously: >From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 65/wfapi11.htm A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous process is a process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. -- Stuart > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > > > > > -- From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 03:35:05 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 19:35:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4D6E0F49.5585.1EF20FAB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> True, I missed the sneaky conflation of the terms "web based" and AJAX :-) -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:18, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Stuart -- > > <<< > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. >>> But > waiting "for the remote server to respond" in the case of AJAX doesn't > mean stopping/blocking browser - such a waiting mean asynchronous > "listening" for MS SQL to process (a set of) SQL requests, and when > any one of the latter is ready asynchronously process its result > (set). > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 2:55 To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > See inline. > On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the > > data is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > > > > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > > > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is > > any difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data > > request is queued, when the system has time it checks the request > > and then retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site > > indicating that the data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the > > data is transferred. > > > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > > > > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle > works, it also works asynchronously: > > > From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default > in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: > > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.90 > 2/a952 65/wfapi11.htm > > > A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A > synchronous process is a process that can be executed without > interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a > process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be > completed immediately, such as function activities that are not > deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return > control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until > it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can > immediately check for process results that were written to item > attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait > for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process > that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it > contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities > that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, > notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait > activities. > > -- > Stuart > > > > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you > > > > can work around its philosophy of design does not mean you > > > > should. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 03:35:34 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 19:35:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , Message-ID: <4D6E0F66.1395.1EF28335@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Jim's already stipulated that it's a many to many table. It alreay allows for multiple authors. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:13, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: ... > > Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one > author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several > authors for a book is a "simple change request"... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > ... >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to ?> tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to >> tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 04:19:34 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 13:19:34 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E0F66.1395.1EF28335@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , <4D6E0F66.1395.1EF28335@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <2494A646D19E498F860D33961D0B01AC@nant> Hi Stuart -- <<< Jim's already stipulated that it's a many to many table. It already allows for multiple authors. >>> Sorry, I have missed that. But anyway it doesn't make inapplicable my comment on using [LinkID] and "consistent data design", does it? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 12:36 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim's already stipulated that it's a many to many table. It alreay allows for multiple authors. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:13, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: ... > > Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one > author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several > authors for a book is a "simple change request"... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > ... >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to ?> tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to >> tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 06:48:42 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 07:48:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> Message-ID: <666D2EE834D24ED5ACCBE7BB396AF6B1@SusanHarkins> Yelp, yelp, and yelp! Hi Deb!!! Susan H. > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 07:04:14 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:04:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> Message-ID: <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Debbie, I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it as such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being entered more then once? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use them for the following reasons: 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short code based on the name has changed (sigh). 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the relationship is crap without cascade updates. 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. Debbie On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I > need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than > one would think. > > If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >> create an >> autoincrement PK. I no >> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! >> >> I then proceed to create the fields. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>> discovered the >>> problem with the invoice. >>> >>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>> tables. By >>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >> multiple >>> invoice details. >>> >>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>> but it >>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>> temptation. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >>> classic case of why >>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>> >>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no >> longer >>> an accurate >>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>> all the >>> tables which store it >>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >>> description >>> >>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>> Update" >>> turned on.) >>> >>> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 07:04:14 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:04:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com><9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Message-ID: <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 2 07:07:46 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 05:07:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Stuart: A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) with the BE data server. Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and if the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded some thing better.) When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to have dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of users. Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, bound connection. When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, under load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to respond and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of connection. A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection as the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that tight binding. So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get in to. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server See inline. On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data > is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any > difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request > is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then > retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the > data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it also works asynchronously: >From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 65/wfapi11.htm A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous process is a process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. -- Stuart From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Wed Mar 2 07:40:14 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 05:40:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have to do some rethinking here? From delam at zyterra.com Wed Mar 2 08:33:22 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:33:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Message-ID: Additional indexes are another matter entirely. They are appropriate and needed. Relationships with other tables should be immutable and not subject to data entry. Don't confuse the two. Debbie Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2011, at 7:04 AM, "Jim Dettman" wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about > it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent > from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports > out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why > natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that > used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it > happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I >> need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than >> one would think. >> >> If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >>> >>> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >>> >>> And not simply: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >>> >>> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >>> create an >>> autoincrement PK. I no >>> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber >>> pk! >>> >>> I then proceed to create the fields. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients >>>> were >>>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>>> discovered the >>>> problem with the invoice. >>>> >>>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by >>>> grouping >>>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>>> tables. By >>>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash >>>> matched >>>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >>> multiple >>>> invoice details. >>>> >>>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>>> but it >>>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have >>>> never >>>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>>> temptation. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>>> >>>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. >>>> This is a >>>> classic case of why >>>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>>> >>>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code >>>> is no >>> longer >>>> an accurate >>>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>>> all the >>>> tables which store it >>>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't >>>> match the >>>> description >>>> >>>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>>> Update" >>>> turned on.) >>>> >>>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 08:39:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:39:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being entered more then once? ohhhh don't go there!!! PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I >> need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than >> one would think. >> >> If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >>> >>> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >>> >>> And not simply: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >>> >>> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >>> create an >>> autoincrement PK. I no >>> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! >>> >>> I then proceed to create the fields. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >>>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>>> discovered the >>>> problem with the invoice. >>>> >>>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >>>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>>> tables. By >>>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >>>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >>> multiple >>>> invoice details. >>>> >>>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>>> but it >>>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >>>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>>> temptation. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>>> >>>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >>>> classic case of why >>>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>>> >>>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no >>> longer >>>> an accurate >>>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>>> all the >>>> tables which store it >>>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >>>> description >>>> >>>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>>> Update" >>>> turned on.) >>>> >>>> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 09:09:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:09:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D6E5DC1.5010005@colbyconsulting.com> >The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Me too, very powerful. >Do I have to do some rethinking here? Maybe but probably not. Generally speaking, you do not want to be displaying hundreds or thousands of records in any form. Generally speaking subforms by their nature limit the number of records, only returning children of the parent record. That said, they could still return thousands of ... checks for an account, or accounts for a bank, or... you get the picture. You need to stay aware of that issue and try to prevent pulling (as an example) 10,000 checks into a subform on an account form. You need to do this for any data store but it *may* be more of an issue for an ODBC linked table to a SQL Server. The problem here is we don't really know how JET handles things behind the scene. It is constantly watching as you edit records for example. Does (and can) it instantly go set a lock on an edited record in an ODBC linked table to a SQL Server? Or does it lock the record at the instant it tries to write back, and then look for changes to fields edited on this form? I think those of us interested in this issue need to experiment and discover what JET actually does. We can do that by opening the same FE twice, opening the same bound form to the same record, and then editing the record in one instance and watching the second instance. JET is a sophisticated little widget and it is still in charge of the application even if we are linked via ODBC to a SQL Server table / view. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:40 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and ADO connections all working. > One question is why would you link to SQL Server tables in Access when you can do everything with > ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do you just simply > link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say to keep the data simplified on a main form and > then allow the user to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is I like > subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have to do some rethinking here? From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 09:13:05 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 18:13:05 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com><9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> Message-ID: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 09:17:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:17:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has a pool of 100 connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out how). Someone on the internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you > could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) > with the BE data server. > > Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were > problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and if > the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to > corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years > ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded some > thing better.) > > When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to have > dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as > thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of > users. > > Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits > (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the > connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the > request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the > remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is > given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately > terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. > > In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the > background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, > bound connection. > > When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a > dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, under > load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to respond > and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of connection. > A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection as > the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that > tight binding. > > So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get > in to. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > See inline. > On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >> > > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request > and wait for a > reply before doing anything else. > >> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >> >> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >> > > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it > also works > asynchronously: > > >> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in > Oracle to. Note the > use of the word forced in the last sentence.: > > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 > 65/wfapi11.htm > > > A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous > process is a > process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The > Workflow Engine > executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that > can be > completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to > the background > engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling > application that initiated > the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you > can > immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes > or directly to the > database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. > ... > An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot > complete > immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples > of > activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, > notifications > with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. > > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Wed Mar 2 09:33:04 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 07:33:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E5DC1.5010005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6E5DC1.5010005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6E6330.5080601@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John So to use a subform I would need to link the SQL Server table on a bound form? Tabs I may be able to refresh the recordset as the user changes tabs (I think I read that somewhere for Tabs). jwcolby wrote: > >The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. > > Me too, very powerful. > > >Do I have to do some rethinking here? > > Maybe but probably not. Generally speaking, you do not want to be > displaying hundreds or thousands of records in any form. Generally > speaking subforms by their nature limit the number of records, only > returning children of the parent record. > > That said, they could still return thousands of ... checks for an > account, or accounts for a bank, or... you get the picture. > > You need to stay aware of that issue and try to prevent pulling (as an > example) 10,000 checks into a subform on an account form. You need to > do this for any data store but it *may* be more of an issue for an > ODBC linked table to a SQL Server. > > The problem here is we don't really know how JET handles things behind > the scene. It is constantly watching as you edit records for > example. Does (and can) it instantly go set a lock on an edited > record in an ODBC linked table to a SQL Server? Or does it lock the > record at the instant it tries to write back, and then look for > changes to fields edited on this form? > > I think those of us interested in this issue need to experiment and > discover what JET actually does. We can do that by opening the same > FE twice, opening the same bound form to the same record, and then > editing the record in one instance and watching the second instance. > > JET is a sophisticated little widget and it is still in charge of the > application even if we are linked via ODBC to a SQL Server table / view. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:40 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > >> Hey All >> I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and >> ADO connections all working. >> One question is why would you link to SQL Server tables in Access >> when you can do everything with >> ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms >> and tabs, do you just simply >> link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say to keep the data >> simplified on a main form and >> then allow the user to pick a record and then display a more detailed >> form. The thing is I like >> subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have to do >> some rethinking here? > From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 2 09:57:29 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:57:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> Message-ID: <003e01cbd8f2$8cf765a0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Go for it. . . . It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. A great debate about consistent vs inconsistent might be more profitable than discussing the person in the street reacting to the Banksters losing all the world's money. It seems only a few nations are immune to such. Well I better get back to work straightening out my once 'consistent' project. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade > Update" turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 2 10:02:30 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:02:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: You are definitely going into new territory, to my experience on this one. Having a bound system, connecting over the internet, I would suspect would drain resources from your BE server, (20+ dedicated connections per remote station? One for every bound table?) And then there is that flaky internet in between. Me thinks there is a good reason for not exceeding the default 100 connection...Have you calculated how much resources like bandwidth, CPU and Memory each connection requires? Fifteen years ago I tried to get a similar system working and failed but the internal design of Access may have improved dramatically since then. As I said before, hats off if you get it working. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has a pool of 100 connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out how). Someone on the internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you > could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) > with the BE data server. > > Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were > problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and if > the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to > corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years > ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded some > thing better.) > > When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to have > dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as > thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of > users. > > Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits > (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the > connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the > request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the > remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is > given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately > terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. > > In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the > background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, > bound connection. > > When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a > dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, under > load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to respond > and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of connection. > A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection as > the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that > tight binding. > > So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get > in to. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > See inline. > On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >> > > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request > and wait for a > reply before doing anything else. > >> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >> >> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >> > > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it > also works > asynchronously: > > >> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in > Oracle to. Note the > use of the word forced in the last sentence.: > > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 > 65/wfapi11.htm > > > A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous > process is a > process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The > Workflow Engine > executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that > can be > completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to > the background > engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling > application that initiated > the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you > can > immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes > or directly to the > database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. > ... > An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot > complete > immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples > of > activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, > notifications > with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 10:22:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:22:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> John, <> Ah why not? ;) <> I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a relation by it's very definition would form a unique index. << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being entered more then once? ohhhh don't go there!!! PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: <> From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 10:40:48 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:40:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Message-ID: Debbie, <> There are two contexts to a database design; a logical one and a physical one. Your working with the physical one, I'm talking about the logical one. <> They would not be if you used natural keys in a db design. Don't get me wrong; I'm not advocating that. But if we had systems capable of handling natural key designs performance wise, then additional indexes would not be required. Additional indexes are only required because we take the shortcut of using auto numbers as keys rather then using a natural key to model the data physically. Interesting footnote: Access when first released was often touted as being truest to relational theory because it had the feature of cascading updates and deletes. <> That's true whether you used auto number or natural keys. However if you did use natural keys in a database design, then data entry could very well change data that the key is based on, but it would still not change the relationships between relations. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Additional indexes are another matter entirely. They are appropriate and needed. Relationships with other tables should be immutable and not subject to data entry. Don't confuse the two. Debbie Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2011, at 7:04 AM, "Jim Dettman" wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about > it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent > from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports > out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why > natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that > used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it > happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I >> need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than >> one would think. >> >> If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >>> >>> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >>> >>> And not simply: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >>> >>> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >>> create an >>> autoincrement PK. I no >>> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber >>> pk! >>> >>> I then proceed to create the fields. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients >>>> were >>>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>>> discovered the >>>> problem with the invoice. >>>> >>>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by >>>> grouping >>>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>>> tables. By >>>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash >>>> matched >>>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >>> multiple >>>> invoice details. >>>> >>>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>>> but it >>>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have >>>> never >>>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>>> temptation. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>>> >>>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. >>>> This is a >>>> classic case of why >>>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>>> >>>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code >>>> is no >>> longer >>>> an accurate >>>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>>> all the >>>> tables which store it >>>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't >>>> match the >>>> description >>>> >>>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>>> Update" >>>> turned on.) >>>> >>>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 11:00:22 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 20:00:22 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <003e01cbd8f2$8cf765a0$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> <003e01cbd8f2$8cf765a0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <8B418CB4E9A84AACAC986BCAA7539C8A@nant> Hi Edward, Thank you for your note. <<< It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. >>> Refactoring is used to keep a project consistent/get a project back into a consistent state. See also "Technical Debt" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt) related books, articles, discussions... and how to handle that "technical debt" to keep one's project consistent... In my experience approx. 20% of a project time is needed to keep it consistent. That "additional" efforts do pay back a lot in long run. And if one will keep a "technical debt" growing they will get "technically bankrupt" sooner or later. One (a seasoned developer) should probably better not inform their customers when and how they keep their project "technical debt" work performed but for a "good" customer with long lasting relations such a "secret" should be opened... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 18:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Go for it. . . . It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. A great debate about consistent vs inconsistent might be more profitable than discussing the person in the street reacting to the Banksters losing all the world's money. It seems only a few nations are immune to such. Well I better get back to work straightening out my once 'consistent' project. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade > Update" turned on.) > > From patrinod at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 11:47:14 2011 From: patrinod at gmail.com (Den Patrino) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 12:47:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings Message-ID: Members ... It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. Are there pros and cons to one or the other. TIA Patty From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 2 11:48:58 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:48:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <8B418CB4E9A84AACAC986BCAA7539C8A@nant> Message-ID: <000601cbd902$1cb2e840$5bdea8c0@edz1> My pleasure. . . Have to run, and get back to my can of worms. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 10:00 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Edward, Thank you for your note. <<< It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. >>> Refactoring is used to keep a project consistent/get a project back into a consistent state. See also "Technical Debt" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt) related books, articles, discussions... and how to handle that "technical debt" to keep one's project consistent... In my experience approx. 20% of a project time is needed to keep it consistent. That "additional" efforts do pay back a lot in long run. And if one will keep a "technical debt" growing they will get "technically bankrupt" sooner or later. One (a seasoned developer) should probably better not inform their customers when and how they keep their project "technical debt" work performed but for a "good" customer with long lasting relations such a "secret" should be opened... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 18:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Go for it. . . . It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. A great debate about consistent vs inconsistent might be more profitable than discussing the person in the street reacting to the Banksters losing all the world's money. It seems only a few nations are immune to such. Well I better get back to work straightening out my once 'consistent' project. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade > Update" turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 2 12:55:56 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:55:56 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Patty: I am not sure this will answer you question but find a link to three different sites giving sample connection strings for various versions of MS SQL and some with explanations. (The list is half way down the page.) http://www.databaseadvisors.com/reference/referencemisc.asp HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Den Patrino Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:47 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings Members ... It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. Are there pros and cons to one or the other. TIA Patty -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 13:28:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 14:28:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6E9A78.2020809@colbyconsulting.com> My connection leak is actually happening with a complex C# system I am designing. My guess is that Access would use a single connection for all linked tables. There is no reason to have more than one for all of the tables. As I said, this is all new to me. I will be doing some tests soon to look at the locking issues. I am using the 2007 run time so I have whatever advantage might be available in terms of the latest stuff. In fact a client has offered a copy of Access 2010 which I will probably take her up on. At that point my runtimes will be using 2010 whatever that might mean. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:02 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > You are definitely going into new territory, to my experience on this one. > Having a bound system, connecting over the internet, I would suspect would > drain resources from your BE server, (20+ dedicated connections per remote > station? One for every bound table?) And then there is that flaky internet > in between. > > Me thinks there is a good reason for not exceeding the default 100 > connection...Have you calculated how much resources like bandwidth, CPU and > Memory each connection requires? > > Fifteen years ago I tried to get a similar system working and failed but the > internal design of Access may have improved dramatically since then. As I > said before, hats off if you get it working. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 7:17 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has > a pool of 100 > connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out > how). Someone on the > internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Stuart: >> >> A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you >> could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) >> with the BE data server. >> >> Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were >> problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and > if >> the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to >> corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years >> ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded > some >> thing better.) >> >> When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to > have >> dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as >> thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of >> users. >> >> Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits >> (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the >> connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the >> request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the >> remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is >> given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately >> terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. >> >> In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the >> background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, >> bound connection. >> >> When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a >> dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, > under >> load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to > respond >> and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of > connection. >> A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection > as >> the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that >> tight binding. >> >> So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get >> in to. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> See inline. >> On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> >>> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >>> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >>> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >>> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >>> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >>> >> >> That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request >> and wait for a >> reply before doing anything else. >> >>> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >>> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >>> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >>> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >>> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >>> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >>> >>> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >>> >> >> No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, > it >> also works >> asynchronously: >> >> >>> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in >> Oracle to. Note the >> use of the word forced in the last sentence.: >> >> > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 >> 65/wfapi11.htm >> >> >> A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A > synchronous >> process is a >> process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. > The >> Workflow Engine >> executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that >> can be >> completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred > to >> the background >> engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling >> application that initiated >> the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, > you >> can >> immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes >> or directly to the >> database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. >> ... >> An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot >> complete >> immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. > Examples >> of >> activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, >> notifications >> with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. >> >> From rlister at actuarial-files.com Wed Mar 2 13:39:17 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 15:39:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database window Message-ID: <000001cbd911$87647410$962d5c30$@com> Hello to all of you, How do I hide the database window using code? TIA and Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 13:40:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 14:40:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. What? It certainly can. >As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. Yes they are just pointers or tags. My point is that in SQL Server you create a field with an integer. As a separate step you set it to be an auto-increment. As another separate step you set it to be the PK - SQL Server labels it as the PK of the table. As a result of making the field a PK sql server automatically creates a unique index, on that one field. At that point you have a long auto-increment that is a PK. At that point it has all of the attributes required to be and is in fact a surrogate key. It is indexed unique, it is defined by SQL Server as the PK and it's value is automatically created by the system with no input from the user. It is a surrogate and it performs as one. I use them all the time. All of which has nothing whatsoever to do with preventing duplicate records. The PK surrogate key has a unique index, however it does not prevent duplicates *records*, it just prevents duplicate primary key values. Two separate issues. > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. No, a surrogate PK is a pointer. You can in fact have auto-numbers that are not used as the surrogate PK. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:22 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > <> > > Ah why not? ;) > > <> > > I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a relation > by it's very definition would form a unique index. > > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> > > Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the > function of one. > > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or > tags. > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being > entered more then once? > > ohhhh don't go there!!! > > PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does > not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. > > That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> Debbie, >> >> I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it > as >> such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from >> being entered more then once? >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used >> (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use >> them for the following reasons: >> >> 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is >> supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of >> a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. >> They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short >> code based on the name has changed (sigh). >> 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a >> problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the >> relationship is crap without cascade updates. >> 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural >> keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used >> docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional >> countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, >> refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to >> work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head >> too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it >> probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. >> >> Debbie >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > <> > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 2 13:50:04 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 19:50:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E9A78.2020809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> , <4D6E9A78.2020809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB965FD@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> try this re connection count-just lifted of web SELECT DB_NAME(dbid) as DBName, COUNT(dbid) as NumberOfConnections, loginame as LoginName FROM sys.sysprocesses WHERE dbid > 0 GROUP BY dbid, loginame Martin WP Reid Information Services The McClay Library Queen's University of Belfast 10 College Park Belfast BT7 1LP Tel : 02890976174 Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sharepoint Training Portal ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby [jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 02 March 2011 19:28 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My connection leak is actually happening with a complex C# system I am designing. My guess is that Access would use a single connection for all linked tables. There is no reason to have more than one for all of the tables. As I said, this is all new to me. I will be doing some tests soon to look at the locking issues. I am using the 2007 run time so I have whatever advantage might be available in terms of the latest stuff. In fact a client has offered a copy of Access 2010 which I will probably take her up on. At that point my runtimes will be using 2010 whatever that might mean. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:02 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > You are definitely going into new territory, to my experience on this one. > Having a bound system, connecting over the internet, I would suspect would > drain resources from your BE server, (20+ dedicated connections per remote > station? One for every bound table?) And then there is that flaky internet > in between. > > Me thinks there is a good reason for not exceeding the default 100 > connection...Have you calculated how much resources like bandwidth, CPU and > Memory each connection requires? > > Fifteen years ago I tried to get a similar system working and failed but the > internal design of Access may have improved dramatically since then. As I > said before, hats off if you get it working. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 7:17 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has > a pool of 100 > connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out > how). Someone on the > internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Stuart: >> >> A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you >> could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) >> with the BE data server. >> >> Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were >> problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and > if >> the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to >> corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years >> ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded > some >> thing better.) >> >> When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to > have >> dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as >> thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of >> users. >> >> Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits >> (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the >> connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the >> request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the >> remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is >> given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately >> terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. >> >> In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the >> background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, >> bound connection. >> >> When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a >> dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, > under >> load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to > respond >> and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of > connection. >> A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection > as >> the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that >> tight binding. >> >> So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get >> in to. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> See inline. >> On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> >>> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >>> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >>> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >>> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >>> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >>> >> >> That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request >> and wait for a >> reply before doing anything else. >> >>> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >>> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >>> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >>> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >>> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >>> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >>> >>> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >>> >> >> No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, > it >> also works >> asynchronously: >> >> >>> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in >> Oracle to. Note the >> use of the word forced in the last sentence.: >> >> > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 >> 65/wfapi11.htm >> >> >> A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A > synchronous >> process is a >> process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. > The >> Workflow Engine >> executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that >> can be >> completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred > to >> the background >> engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling >> application that initiated >> the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, > you >> can >> immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes >> or directly to the >> database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. >> ... >> An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot >> complete >> immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. > Examples >> of >> activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, >> notifications >> with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. >> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:47:06 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:47:06 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> When does a "many to many linking table" cease to be a "simply a many to many linking table" How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product formula and have to store a quantity as well? What about if you subsequently need to store info such as the start date of the link relationship. Do you then add a PK? -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 8:04, Jim Dettman wrote: > table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other > fields would ever be added to it. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:53:17 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:53:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com>, <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6EAE3D.24667.215EF7F4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> D,RFC :-) -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > <> > > Ah why not? ;) > > <> > > I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a > relation > by it's very definition would form a unique index. > > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set > of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those > fields.>> > > Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a > surrogate > key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the > function of one. > > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers > or > tags. > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from > being > entered more then once? > > ohhhh don't go there!!! > > PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber > PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility > of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and > setting a unique index on those fields. > > That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Debbie, > > > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking > > about it > as > > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent > > from being entered more then once? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie > > Elam Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > > them for the following reasons: > > > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports > > out of a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 > > years. They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of > > a short code based on the name has changed (sigh). 2. Real Data is > > subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a problem > > happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the relationship > > is crap without cascade updates. 3. Real data is never as unique as > > you may think. This is why natural keys usually evolve into > > compound keys. Had a patent database that used docket numbers as a > > natural key. As they supported additional countries, they added > > country. As addendum were added to the patent, refines were added. > > Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to work with. To top > > it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head too. Rare > > occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it probably > > occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. > > > > Debbie > > > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > <> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:53:16 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:53:16 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility with Win7 SP1? :-) If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have a lot of extra work to do :-( On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and > ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL > Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in > Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do > you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say > to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user > to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is > I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have > to do some rethinking here? -- AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:59:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:59:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D6EAF9E.15472.21645AAC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I always use full DSN-less connection strings for portability of the application. No need to worry about whether the DSN is present on every workstation and it's easy to change in an update to the FE if you need to change your connection ( say been a live and a training BE database). (A very common typo in the interent age, it's DSN (data source name) not DNS ( domain name system) -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 12:47, Den Patrino wrote: > Members ... > > It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've > just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. > I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a > DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. > > Are there pros and cons to one or the other. > > TIA > Patty > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 15:02:49 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:02:49 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4D6EB079.26925.2167B356@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> A very useful reference. I keep it bookmarked and it is my first point of call if I have anything out of the ordinary to connect to. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 10:55, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Patty: > > I am not sure this will answer you question but find a link to three > different sites giving sample connection strings for various versions > of MS SQL and some with explanations. (The list is half way down the > page.) > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com/reference/referencemisc.asp > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Den Patrino > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:47 AM To: > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect > strings > > Members ... > > It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've > just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. > I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a > DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. > > Are there pros and cons to one or the other. > > TIA > Patty > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 15:19:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:19:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Database window In-Reply-To: <000001cbd911$87647410$962d5c30$@com> References: <000001cbd911$87647410$962d5c30$@com> Message-ID: <4D6EB47C.12048.217761AE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The simple way is to select an object in the database window first and then hide the window when it becomes active. DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide The disadvantage of this is that it "flashes" the database window on top of everything. The better way is to paste the following code into a module and call "ShowDbWindow False": Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Declare Function GetClassNameA Lib "user32" ( _ ByVal hwnd As Long, _ ByVal lpClassName As String, _ ByVal nMaxCount As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function GetWindow Lib "user32" ( _ ByVal hwnd As Long, _ ByVal wCmd As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function ShowWindowAsync Lib "user32" ( _ ByVal hwnd As Long, _ ByVal nCmdShow As Long) _ As Boolean Private Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 Private Const GW_CHILD = 5 Private Const SW_HIDE = 0 Private Const SW_SHOW = 5 Private Function GetClassName( _ ByVal hwnd As Long) _ As String Dim lpClassName As String Dim lLen As Long lpClassName = String(255, 32) lLen = GetClassNameA(hwnd, lpClassName, 255) If lLen > 0 Then GetClassName = Left(lpClassName, lLen) End If End Function Public Sub ShowDbWindow(ByVal bCmdShow As Boolean) Dim hWndApp As Long hWndApp = GetWindow(Application.hWndAccessApp, GW_CHILD) Do Until hWndApp = 0 If GetClassName(hWndApp) = "MDIClient" Then Exit Do End If hWndApp = GetWindow(hWndApp, GW_HWNDNEXT) Loop If hWndApp > 0 Then hWndApp = GetWindow(hWndApp, GW_CHILD) Do Until hWndApp = 0 If GetClassName(hWndApp) = "ODb" Then Exit Do End If hWndApp = GetWindow(hWndApp, GW_HWNDNEXT) Loop End If If hWndApp > 0 Then ShowWindowAsync hWndApp, IIf(bCmdShow, SW_SHOW, SW_HIDE) End If End Sub On 2 Mar 2011 at 15:39, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello to all of you, > > > > How do I hide the database window using code? > > > > TIA and Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 15:47:06 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 16:47:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, << << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. What? It certainly can. >> What then is your definition of a PK? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 02:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. What? It certainly can. >As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. Yes they are just pointers or tags. My point is that in SQL Server you create a field with an integer. As a separate step you set it to be an auto-increment. As another separate step you set it to be the PK - SQL Server labels it as the PK of the table. As a result of making the field a PK sql server automatically creates a unique index, on that one field. At that point you have a long auto-increment that is a PK. At that point it has all of the attributes required to be and is in fact a surrogate key. It is indexed unique, it is defined by SQL Server as the PK and it's value is automatically created by the system with no input from the user. It is a surrogate and it performs as one. I use them all the time. All of which has nothing whatsoever to do with preventing duplicate records. The PK surrogate key has a unique index, however it does not prevent duplicates *records*, it just prevents duplicate primary key values. Two separate issues. > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. No, a surrogate PK is a pointer. You can in fact have auto-numbers that are not used as the surrogate PK. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:22 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > <> > > Ah why not? ;) > > <> > > I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a relation > by it's very definition would form a unique index. > > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> > > Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the > function of one. > > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or > tags. > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being > entered more then once? > > ohhhh don't go there!!! > > PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does > not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. > > That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> Debbie, >> >> I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it > as >> such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from >> being entered more then once? >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used >> (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use >> them for the following reasons: >> >> 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is >> supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of >> a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. >> They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short >> code based on the name has changed (sigh). >> 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a >> problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the >> relationship is crap without cascade updates. >> 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural >> keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used >> docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional >> countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, >> refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to >> work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head >> too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it >> probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. >> >> Debbie >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > <> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 15:57:18 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 16:57:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: I have been doing it that way since Access 2000 first introduced ADP files. I never passed through the ODBC stage, just went straight to ADPs SQL Server. I've done a variety of apps this way. The biggest was an app for a large travel agency/event system. Another significant one was for PCB management facilities in Ontario; another was a typical Time/Billing app; another was a safety assessment engineering app that's going nation-wide (that is, Canada) now. I'm so into that mode it never occurs to me to use Access as the Back End any more. If it's on the small side, I'll use SQL Express instead of the full-blown product. Arthur On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > Thanks > I have got to try out Stuart suggestion for updating stored procedures in > SQL Server using ACCESS. > I am not finding any significant differences in speed when using ACCESS > tables and queries versus SQL Server tables and pass through queries, I > assume that is because I am doing my testing on my local machine and not on > a network (or Web). > > Are any of your developing full blown ACCESS/SQL Server applications for > clients? If so what type of an app is it? > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 16:12:40 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 17:12:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, <> It never does as your modeling a join and not some "thing" like a customer, book, or author. << How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product formula and have to store a quantity as well?>> That's a BOM (Bill of Materials) type structure and a one to many. <> You never would, but if you did it would look like this: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B CreatedDT - D/T But that doesn't make any sense as a many to many record is added at the same time as adding a record on one of the sides represented by the table. For example, when entering a book, a user would be forced to select a "written by" and the linking record to the author would be added at that point. You can't have a book without an author. So you would include a CreatedDT on tblBooks rather then on the linking table. One automatically implies the other. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:47 PM To: Jim Dettman; Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When does a "many to many linking table" cease to be a "simply a many to many linking table" How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product formula and have to store a quantity as well? What about if you subsequently need to store info such as the start date of the link relationship. Do you then add a PK? -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 8:04, Jim Dettman wrote: > table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other > fields would ever be added to it. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 16:40:50 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:40:50 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4D6EC772.12133.21C16FA4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Comments inline. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 17:12, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > < many to many linking table" >> > > It never does as your modeling a join and not some "thing" like a > customer, book, or author. > You're not modelling a join - a join is just a programming construct. You are modelling a real world relationship which can have attributes. > << How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product > formula and have to store a quantity as well?>> > > That's a BOM (Bill of Materials) type structure and a one to many. No, it's many to many. Paint Chemical ... Satin White Titanium Dioxide Satin White Water ... Satin Yellow Titaniun Dioxide Satin Yellow Water ... > < date of the link relationship.>> > > You never would, but if you did it would look like this: > I wish I had a buck for every time I've seen "..never would" subseuqnetly happened. > tblBooksAndAuthors > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B > CreatedDT - D/T > > But that doesn't make any sense as a many to many record is added at > the > same time as adding a record on one of the sides represented by the > table. > > For example, when entering a book, a user would be forced to select > a > "written by" and the linking record to the author would be added at > that point. You can't have a book without an author. > > So you would include a CreatedDT on tblBooks rather then on the > linking > table. One automatically implies the other. > I'm talking about the created date of the relationbship, not the objects. For example: Within the Royal Papua Yacht Club we have a number "sub Clubs" which members can join . (Scuba, Deep Sea Fishing, Sailing, Canoe Racing) . I may decide to join the Deep Sea Fishing Club at some point in the future. That join date needs to stored at the link, not in my master record. Members MembPK MembNo MembName membJoinDate ' Joined RPYC CLubs ClubPK ClubName MemberClubs ClubFK MemberFK JoinDate 'Joined the sub-Club From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 2 17:01:15 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 10:01:15 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> Message-ID: <201103022301.p22N1MQo013694@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ haha "become a new "great debate"". That was pretty much what I was thinking. Just when things around here had settled down on the bound / unbound skirmishes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, 3 March 2011 2:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 17:04:10 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 18:04:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> My definition of a PK is: 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. Candidate keys perform function #1 above. There may be several candidate keys. They cannot all be the PK because there can be only one PK! Whether you use a candidate key or a surrogate key as your PK, selecting it as you PK means it CAN AND IN FACT does both. So a PK is a PK simply because it can do both 1 and 2 above AND you select it to be your PK. It does *not* have to be used as a FK to be a PK. However IF you need a FK in a child table to link back to the parent table, then you are *supposed to* use the PK. If you are a fruit or nut, you could use any candidate key to do that. You could even use one candidate key as the FK in table ABC and a second candidate key as your PK in table XYZ. You would of course be a fruit or nut to do that. In fact (IMHO) you would be a fruit or nut to use a natural key at all. ;) An autonumber field with a unique index on it is automatically a candidate key. It can be used to uniquely identify any given record in the table - #1 above. However it in no way guarantees the uniqueness of the *data* in the table. Only a unique index covering a set of fields which, taken together guarantees unique data, will in fact enforce data uniqueness. A natural PK, by definition, performs both. By making it the PK, SQL Server automatically creates a unique index on the entire set of fields, and guarantees *data* uniqueness and, while it is at it, calls it the PK. If we are going to use a surrogate PK, then we *still* have to perform the analysis to find at least one candidate key, and we have to manually create a unique index to cover that candidate key (set of fields). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 4:47 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from > the responsibility of > analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a > unique index on those > fields.>> > > >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled > as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. > > What? It certainly can. >>> > > What then is your definition of a PK? > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 20:11:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 21:11:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AMD Shows Off 16-Core 'Interlagos' Reference Design - Legit Reviews Message-ID: <4D6EF8D5.7060804@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://www.legitreviews.com/news/10164/ From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 09:02:40 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 10:02:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, <> Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. In fact it goes to the very heart of a relational design. When you model data relationally, it is the logical organization of data and its actual meaning that is being worked with. The aspect of how that model is physically implemented is not a consideration at all. With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Rows are instances of whatever your modeling and columns are the attributes. The combination of one or more attributes *must* yield a unique key. If not, then you don't have a proper relation and must add more attributes. When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. To do the latter, you need to tack on another index, which represents either the true primary key for the data, one of the candidates, or a super key. However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go in and change it at will. However if it is assigned to the object it's associated with and turned into an attribute, then it becomes a surrogate PK. An example of that would be handing it to a customer and using it as a customer code. Once I do that, I now cannot go in at will and change it now without informing the customer. Its been given meaning in a logical context. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 06:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My definition of a PK is: 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. Candidate keys perform function #1 above. There may be several candidate keys. They cannot all be the PK because there can be only one PK! Whether you use a candidate key or a surrogate key as your PK, selecting it as you PK means it CAN AND IN FACT does both. So a PK is a PK simply because it can do both 1 and 2 above AND you select it to be your PK. It does *not* have to be used as a FK to be a PK. However IF you need a FK in a child table to link back to the parent table, then you are *supposed to* use the PK. If you are a fruit or nut, you could use any candidate key to do that. You could even use one candidate key as the FK in table ABC and a second candidate key as your PK in table XYZ. You would of course be a fruit or nut to do that. In fact (IMHO) you would be a fruit or nut to use a natural key at all. ;) An autonumber field with a unique index on it is automatically a candidate key. It can be used to uniquely identify any given record in the table - #1 above. However it in no way guarantees the uniqueness of the *data* in the table. Only a unique index covering a set of fields which, taken together guarantees unique data, will in fact enforce data uniqueness. A natural PK, by definition, performs both. By making it the PK, SQL Server automatically creates a unique index on the entire set of fields, and guarantees *data* uniqueness and, while it is at it, calls it the PK. If we are going to use a surrogate PK, then we *still* have to perform the analysis to find at least one candidate key, and we have to manually create a unique index to cover that candidate key (set of fields). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 4:47 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from > the responsibility of > analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a > unique index on those > fields.>> > > >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled > as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. > > What? It certainly can. >>> > > What then is your definition of a PK? > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 09:02:40 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 10:02:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6EC772.12133.21C16FA4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4D6EC772.12133.21C16FA4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, <> I certainly would not model it that way. I have always done that as a one to many BOM structure: tblBOM BOMID - Autonumber - PK AssemblyID - Long - FK to tblItems - CK1-A LineNumber - Long - CK1-b ComponetID - Long - FK to tblItems QPA - Decimal EffectiveDate - DT IneffectiveDate - DT and build up a where used index on the fly based on effective/ineffective dates. <> I understand your point and you are correct. You could add the date (along with a bunch of other attributes) to the linking table and at that point it would no longer be a "simple" linking table. However that does not change my original point: the need to add an auto number PK simply because "I always do it that way" is not required. The pairing of ClubFK and MemberFK work fine as a primary key. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 05:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Comments inline. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 17:12, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > < many to many linking table" >> > > It never does as your modeling a join and not some "thing" like a > customer, book, or author. > You're not modelling a join - a join is just a programming construct. You are modelling a real world relationship which can have attributes. > << How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product > formula and have to store a quantity as well?>> > > That's a BOM (Bill of Materials) type structure and a one to many. No, it's many to many. Paint Chemical ... Satin White Titanium Dioxide Satin White Water ... Satin Yellow Titaniun Dioxide Satin Yellow Water ... > < date of the link relationship.>> > > You never would, but if you did it would look like this: > I wish I had a buck for every time I've seen "..never would" subseuqnetly happened. > tblBooksAndAuthors > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B > CreatedDT - D/T > > But that doesn't make any sense as a many to many record is added at > the > same time as adding a record on one of the sides represented by the > table. > > For example, when entering a book, a user would be forced to select > a > "written by" and the linking record to the author would be added at > that point. You can't have a book without an author. > > So you would include a CreatedDT on tblBooks rather then on the > linking > table. One automatically implies the other. > I'm talking about the created date of the relationbship, not the objects. For example: Within the Royal Papua Yacht Club we have a number "sub Clubs" which members can join . (Scuba, Deep Sea Fishing, Sailing, Canoe Racing) . I may decide to join the Deep Sea Fishing Club at some point in the future. That join date needs to stored at the link, not in my master record. Members MembPK MembNo MembName membJoinDate ' Joined RPYC CLubs ClubPK ClubName MemberClubs ClubFK MemberFK JoinDate 'Joined the sub-Club -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 3 10:58:40 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 11:58:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: " However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go in and change it at will." No you cannot just go in and change it at will. You also have to go find all the records in all the tables that use that Autonumber value as the foreign key back to the table they are relate to. So that's why I don't make an Autonumber PK any kind of meaningful attribute for a record. Real data used to construct Natural PKs can change too, and then it gets messy. Lambert's 2 cents. From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 12:40:33 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 13:40:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> Lambert, <> Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. However I could do that at any time. Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. You still could at that point change it, but not without changing something else. It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all assets. New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits instead of the current 8. I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without going to every asset and re-labeling it. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 11:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server " However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go in and change it at will." No you cannot just go in and change it at will. You also have to go find all the records in all the tables that use that Autonumber value as the foreign key back to the table they are relate to. So that's why I don't make an Autonumber PK any kind of meaningful attribute for a record. Real data used to construct Natural PKs can change too, and then it gets messy. Lambert's 2 cents. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 3 13:00:20 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 11:00:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net> Stuart, I missed that. What was the day of the message? Are you saying that an app will break if it uses ADO and is moved to a Win7 SP1 machine? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 12:53 PM To: Tony Septav; Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility with Win7 SP1? :-) If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have a lot of extra work to do :-( On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and > ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL > Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in > Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do > you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say > to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user > to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is > I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have > to do some rethinking here? -- AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 3 13:31:14 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 14:31:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> Message-ID: I agree 100%.You are describing the reasons why record attribute should *not* be used as primary keys, IMHO. That is precisely why *my* primary keys have no meaning. They are just autonumbers (like John's) and I never have any need to change them. If I need a "Serial Number" or "Order Number" or any such meaningful value then that will be generated by a function that is "aware" of what's happening in the real world (like what was the last order number issued). Lambert :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Lambert, <> Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. However I could do that at any time. Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. You still could at that point change it, but not without changing something else. It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all assets. New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits instead of the current 8. I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without going to every asset and re-labeling it. Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 13:46:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 14:46:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, Pretty much nonsense in my book. > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. (just one example) http://www.1keydata.com/sql/sql-primary-key.html >>>*A primary key is used to uniquely identify each row in a table.* My PK does that! >>>It can either be part of the actual record itself , *or it can be an artificial field (one that has nothing to do with the actual record).* That would be my PK. In MY world, a PK is a FK in another table. It is a pointer back to the parent. That is it's only purpose! PERIOD. (full stop) >In fact it goes to the very heart of a relational design. And has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with the pointers between records. PERIOD. (full stop) YOU (personally and individually) MAKE it have something to do with the pointer, but I do not. And I do not have to, and neither do you. You CHOOSE to make them "related" but they are not. > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Yad yada yada *ad nasium* (meaning this crap makes me physically ill). And having absolutely NOTHING to do with the pointer between records. I have been doing this since the early 90s. Please save this for your intro to databases class. > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. Hmmm, I guess you need to take up your argument with Microsoft, not me. I open Access and create an autonumber and click a button and MICROSOFT calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I open up SQL Server, and I create a autoincrement and click a button and Microsoft calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I drag and drop this PK between the parent and child and the database engine sets up rules designed to enforce referential integrity. I guess what I am saying is I simply don't give a rat's patuty about academic horsepucky. What I care about is that I have a pointer and I have a unique index on a set of fields which guarantees *data* uniqueness and guess what... The two are not related. and... It works! So I have proven that *my* pointer and *my* data uniqueness are completely and totally unrelated, and *you* are simply arguing that I cannot call it a PK. *Don't care*. *Take it up with Microsoft*. When they stop calling it a PK so will I. I will then call it whatever they call it. In the meantime, we (as a functioning society of database designers) need a common vocabulary. Microsoft is calling my pointer a PK so I pretty much have to or I have to copy your page of horse pucky into every email to explain myself. *not happening* Jim, this happens whenever this subject comes up. Some (typically) oldtimer who went through college back when Codd was a young man and the god of database starts talking in academic terms, tuples and relations and all of that stuff. I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple in my life, it makes no difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. I understand what goes in each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to 3rd normal. I have read many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood (at the time I read it) *some* of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric. If I sound uninterested, or even argumentative, it is simply because I find this whole thing quite easy at the real life level, and I have used (what I was told to call) surrogate PKs since oh... about 1994 and it just works. So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 10:02 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > < > 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record > 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. > > NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE > COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. >>> > > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. In fact it goes to the > very heart of a relational design. When you model data relationally, it is > the logical organization of data and its actual meaning that is being worked > with. The aspect of how that model is physically implemented is not a > consideration at all. > > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Rows are > instances of whatever your modeling and columns are the attributes. The > combination of one or more attributes *must* yield a unique key. If not, > then you don't have a proper relation and must add more attributes. > > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as > a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row > uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. To do the latter, you > need to tack on another index, which represents either the true primary key > for the data, one of the candidates, or a super key. > > However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object > it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. > "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just > applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer > or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go > in and change it at will. > > However if it is assigned to the object it's associated with and turned > into an attribute, then it becomes a surrogate PK. An example of that > would be handing it to a customer and using it as a customer code. Once I > do that, I now cannot go in at will and change it now without informing the > customer. Its been given meaning in a logical context. > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 13:51:52 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 14:51:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. You are allowed to do what you are doing but you are not allowed to *call it* a primary key. Jim hasn't told us what we are supposed to call it, nor has he informed Microsoft that they are not allowed to call it a PK. Unfortunately (for Jim) Microsoft and pretty much the rest of the world *does* call it a PK. As far as I can tell, Jim is tilting at windmills. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 2:31 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > I agree 100%.You are describing the reasons why record attribute should *not* be used as primary keys, IMHO. That is precisely why *my* primary keys have no meaning. They are just autonumbers (like John's) and I never have any need to change them. If I need a "Serial Number" or "Order Number" or any such meaningful value then that will be generated by a function that is "aware" of what's happening in the real world (like what was the last order number issued). > > Lambert :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:41 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Lambert, > > <> > > Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. However I could do that at any time. > > Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. You still could at that point change it, but not without changing something else. > It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. > > For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all assets. > New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits instead of the current 8. > > I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without going to every asset and re-labeling it. > > Jim. > From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 14:10:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 15:10:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is just silly.>> That's not the point. <> So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server LOL, Pretty much nonsense in my book. > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. (just one example) http://www.1keydata.com/sql/sql-primary-key.html >>>*A primary key is used to uniquely identify each row in a table.* My PK does that! >>>It can either be part of the actual record itself , *or it can be an artificial field (one that has nothing to do with the actual record).* That would be my PK. In MY world, a PK is a FK in another table. It is a pointer back to the parent. That is it's only purpose! PERIOD. (full stop) >In fact it goes to the very heart of a relational design. And has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with the pointers between records. PERIOD. (full stop) YOU (personally and individually) MAKE it have something to do with the pointer, but I do not. And I do not have to, and neither do you. You CHOOSE to make them "related" but they are not. > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Yad yada yada *ad nasium* (meaning this crap makes me physically ill). And having absolutely NOTHING to do with the pointer between records. I have been doing this since the early 90s. Please save this for your intro to databases class. > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. Hmmm, I guess you need to take up your argument with Microsoft, not me. I open Access and create an autonumber and click a button and MICROSOFT calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I open up SQL Server, and I create a autoincrement and click a button and Microsoft calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I drag and drop this PK between the parent and child and the database engine sets up rules designed to enforce referential integrity. I guess what I am saying is I simply don't give a rat's patuty about academic horsepucky. What I care about is that I have a pointer and I have a unique index on a set of fields which guarantees *data* uniqueness and guess what... The two are not related. and... It works! So I have proven that *my* pointer and *my* data uniqueness are completely and totally unrelated, and *you* are simply arguing that I cannot call it a PK. *Don't care*. *Take it up with Microsoft*. When they stop calling it a PK so will I. I will then call it whatever they call it. In the meantime, we (as a functioning society of database designers) need a common vocabulary. Microsoft is calling my pointer a PK so I pretty much have to or I have to copy your page of horse pucky into every email to explain myself. *not happening* Jim, this happens whenever this subject comes up. Some (typically) oldtimer who went through college back when Codd was a young man and the god of database starts talking in academic terms, tuples and relations and all of that stuff. I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple in my life, it makes no difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. I understand what goes in each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to 3rd normal. I have read many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood (at the time I read it) *some* of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric. If I sound uninterested, or even argumentative, it is simply because I find this whole thing quite easy at the real life level, and I have used (what I was told to call) surrogate PKs since oh... about 1994 and it just works. So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 10:02 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > < > 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record > 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. > > NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE > COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. >>> > > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. In fact it goes to the > very heart of a relational design. When you model data relationally, it is > the logical organization of data and its actual meaning that is being worked > with. The aspect of how that model is physically implemented is not a > consideration at all. > > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Rows are > instances of whatever your modeling and columns are the attributes. The > combination of one or more attributes *must* yield a unique key. If not, > then you don't have a proper relation and must add more attributes. > > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as > a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row > uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. To do the latter, you > need to tack on another index, which represents either the true primary key > for the data, one of the candidates, or a super key. > > However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object > it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. > "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just > applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer > or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go > in and change it at will. > > However if it is assigned to the object it's associated with and turned > into an attribute, then it becomes a surrogate PK. An example of that > would be handing it to a customer and using it as a customer code. Once I > do that, I now cannot go in at will and change it now without informing the > customer. Its been given meaning in a logical context. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From delam at zyterra.com Thu Mar 3 15:04:58 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 15:04:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> This reminds me of a story that may help: A professor in college was not a native English speaker. He took a class when he came to the US as a grad student. Being a class for science majors in English as a second language, physics words figured prominently. The instructor told them the difference between revolving and rotation. Rotation spins on an axis and revolving is moving the whole object around a central point. My professor asked why a revolver was named thus. The instructor (who was English) started muttering about bloody Americans. The moral: it may be proper English, but I will never be understood if I go into a gunshop and ask for a Rotator. Likewise, Jim will never be understood if he insists that an autonuber can never be a PK. Jim, you have met your revolver. Debbie. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 3, 2011, at 1:51 PM, jwcolby wrote: > LOL. You are allowed to do what you are doing but you are not > allowed to *call it* a primary key. > > Jim hasn't told us what we are supposed to call it, nor has he > informed Microsoft that they are not allowed to call it a PK. > Unfortunately (for Jim) Microsoft and pretty much the rest of the > world *does* call it a PK. As far as I can tell, Jim is tilting at > windmills. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/3/2011 2:31 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: >> I agree 100%.You are describing the reasons why record attribute >> should *not* be used as primary keys, IMHO. That is precisely why >> *my* primary keys have no meaning. They are just autonumbers (like >> John's) and I never have any need to change them. If I need a >> "Serial Number" or "Order Number" or any such meaningful value then >> that will be generated by a function that is "aware" of what's >> happening in the real world (like what was the last order number >> issued). >> >> Lambert :-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman >> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:41 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> Lambert, >> >> <> go find all the records in all the tables that use that Autonumber >> value as the foreign key back to the table they are relate to.>> >> >> Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. >> However I could do that at any time. >> >> Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. >> You still could at that point change it, but not without changing >> something else. >> It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. >> >> For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all >> assets. >> New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits >> instead of the current 8. >> >> I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without >> going to every asset and re-labeling it. >> >> Jim. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 15:06:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 13:06:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net> Message-ID: What is the exact problem? I am not experiencing any problems with any of our ADPs using A2010 on W7SP1. I use a lot of ADO calls on my unbound forms. D On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Stuart, > > I missed that. What was the day of the message? Are you saying that an app > will break if it uses ADO and is moved to a Win7 SP1 machine? > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 12:53 PM > To: Tony Septav; Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility with > Win7 SP1? :-) > > If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have a lot > of > extra work to do :-( > > > On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > > > Hey All > > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and > > ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL > > Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in > > Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do > > you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say > > to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user > > to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is > > I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have > > to do some rethinking here? -- AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 15:08:47 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 13:08:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> Message-ID: :) On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Debbie wrote: > This reminds me of a story that may help: > > A professor in college was not a native English speaker. He took a class > when he came to the US as a grad student. Being a class for science majors > in English as a second language, physics words figured prominently. The > instructor told them the difference between revolving and rotation. Rotation > spins on an axis and revolving is moving the whole object around a central > point. > My professor asked why a revolver was named thus. > The instructor (who was English) started muttering about bloody Americans. > > The moral: it may be proper English, but I will never be understood if I go > into a gunshop and ask for a Rotator. > Likewise, Jim will never be understood if he insists that an autonuber can > never be a PK. > > Jim, you have met your revolver. > > Debbie. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 15:14:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:14:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? ROTFL. That would be you. I have a high school education and some hours of community college. Life is strange sometimes. Circumstances didn't align for me getting a degree. My wife has one though, does that count? So, we have established who is the educated one. But I have read the books; I just strictly differentiate between academics and real world. And I have made my living in designing databases since 1994. It has been a good living. And I have made a living learning and writing applications in numerous programming languages. And I read virtually every day to stay abreast of what I need to know to do my job well. So let's just say I know your terms, I understand your terms, and I could care less about your terms. So whip out the "I'm educated" thing on someone else 'cause it doesn't do a thing for me. And by the way you still are not telling us (and Microsoft) what we are supposed to call this ... uh... hm... I don't know what to call it now... you know... the autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. Man that just sounds so... uneducated. ;) Believe me I *do* want to know so that I can avoid the next peeing match. I will try to insert your favorite name for this object in the discussion from here on out. Just an FYI, I really do know and understand normalization. I really do know and understand candidate keys. I really do search for a candidate key to cover with a unique index to enforce data uniqueness. I really do understand multi-field primary keys. I made an ... well... I hesitate to call it... an "educated" decision to *not* use them in favor of the ... here we go again... that autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. You don't know how sad it makes me to know I can no longer tell people I make "educated" decisions. 8( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 3:10 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is > just silly.>> > > That's not the point. > > <> > > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and > the other not; wonder which one that is? > > Jim. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 3 15:23:38 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 07:23:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com>, <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net>, Message-ID: <4D7006DA.9533.26A11DC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Running on Win7 SP1 is not a problem. Compile an application on Win7 SP1 and it may not run on earlier OSs -- Stuart On 3 Mar 2011 at 13:06, David McAfee wrote: > What is the exact problem? > > I am not experiencing any problems with any of our ADPs using A2010 on > W7SP1. > > I use a lot of ADO calls on my unbound forms. > > D > > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Doug Murphy > wrote: > > > Stuart, > > > > I missed that. What was the day of the message? Are you saying that > > an app will break if it uses ADO and is moved to a Win7 SP1 machine? > > > > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 12:53 PM To: Tony Septav; > > Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: > > [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility > > with Win7 SP1? :-) > > > > If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have > > a lot of extra work to do :-( > > > > > > On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > > > > > Hey All > > > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries > > > and ADO connections all working. One question is why would you > > > link to SQL Server tables in Access when you can do everything > > > with ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle > > > subforms and tabs, do you just simply link to SQL Server tables? > > > From my research they say to keep the data simplified on a main > > > form and then allow the user to pick a record and then display a > > > more detailed form. The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and > > > use them where appropriate. Do I have to do some rethinking here? > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 15:43:52 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:43:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Win7Sp1 and ADO In-Reply-To: <4D6D8F84.26700.1CFEF5CB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D6D8F84.26700.1CFEF5CB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D700B98.2090106@colbyconsulting.com> Holy cow! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 7:29 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en- > US/windowsgeneraldevelopmentissues/thread/3a4ce946-effa-4f77-98a6-34f11c6b5a13 From patrinod at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 15:47:58 2011 From: patrinod at gmail.com (Den Patrino) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 16:47:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect Strings Message-ID: Stuart ... Thanks for the replies. I hadn't thought of having to create a DSN on all the pc's that would run the FE application. Using a DSN-less connection in the FE is definitely the way to go. Thanks, Patty Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:59:10 +1000 From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings Message-ID: <4D6EAF9E.15472.21645AAC at stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I always use full DSN-less connection strings for portability of the application. No need to worry about whether the DSN is present on every workstation and it's easy to change in an update to the FE if you need to change your connection ( say been a live and a training BE database). (A very common typo in the interent age, it's DSN (data source name) not DNS ( domain name system) -- Stuart From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 3 16:58:46 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 16:58:46 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How to Prevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS><4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> Message-ID: We are putting together a small Access 2007 Application which will automatically send Emails when orders are received and when orders are shipped. Everything seems to be working nicely in our initial system tests. However, this is new territory for us and we have some concern that our automatically generated Emails will be categorized as spam by the various Emails programs that are used by our customers who will be receiving our Emails. Admittedly, these questions are more "Email" questions than "Access" questions, but I thought that some of you many have run into these issues previously and may be able to point us in the right direction. What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as spam? In the Email header info, I can see the computer name like this... from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com We would like to use an Email "From" address like "Order_Confirmation at AcmeLtd.com. Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam? Again, this is a new area for us. We have tried to find info on the internet, but no relevant articles have been found so far. Thanks in advance for your help, insights, advice. Brad PS. A couple weeks ago, my wife and I visited the Hormel Spam Museum in Austin, Minnesota. One of their many displays is a video of the Monty Python "Spam" skit which some people claim was the origin of the word "spam" (as in unwanted Email). From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Mar 3 17:45:39 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 00:45:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 1. marts 2011 21:23 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Lambert, It needs a unique index, which the Author/Book combination provides. Not sure why the original post got formatted that way, but it should have looked like this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B Which might be clearer. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 01:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 3 18:26:46 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 03:26:46 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> Message-ID: <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 3 18:39:35 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 10:39:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How to Prevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, Message-ID: <4D7034C7.30279.2754844A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> "What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as spam?" Don't use "spammy" Subjects. Don't use ALL CAPITALS. Make sure that there is a plain text part. "Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam?" The internet headers the From: header are two different things. The From: address needs to be a real email address. How are you setting it. On 3 Mar 2011 at 16:58, Brad Marks wrote: > We are putting together a small Access 2007 Application which will > automatically send Emails when orders are received and when orders are > shipped. > > Everything seems to be working nicely in our initial system tests. > > However, this is new territory for us and we have some concern that > our automatically generated Emails will be categorized as spam by the > various Emails programs that are used by our customers who will be > receiving our Emails. > > Admittedly, these questions are more "Email" questions than "Access" > questions, but I thought that some of you many have run into these > issues previously and may be able to point us in the right direction. > > What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as > spam? > > In the Email header info, I can see the computer name like this... > > from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com > > We would like to use an Email "From" address like > "Order_Confirmation at AcmeLtd.com. > > Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to > reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam? > > Again, this is a new area for us. We have tried to find info on the > internet, but no relevant articles have been found so far. > > Thanks in advance for your help, insights, advice. > > Brad > > PS. A couple weeks ago, my wife and I visited the Hormel Spam Museum > in Austin, Minnesota. One of their many displays is a video of the > Monty Python "Spam" skit which some people claim was the origin of the > word "spam" (as in unwanted Email). > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 3 19:09:57 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 19:09:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How toPrevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D7034C7.30279.2754844A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, Thanks for your advice. We are using a third-party Email tool called Febooti. This tool allows us to set the "From" field. >From our tests, I can look at the Email header info. In there I see "from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com" in addition to the normal "From" field. This got me wondering if we perhaps need to rename our "Email Server" so that it is the same as what we are plugging into the "From" field. Maybe I am over-thinking this. The interesting thing is that in some of our tests, the generated Email ended up in the Spam folder for recipients within our office. This really made me wonder how often our customers would have our Emails landing in their Spam folders. Thanks again, Brad PS. Looks like my question on Spam will not raise nearly the excitement that the Primary Key debate has raised :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thu 3/3/2011 6:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How toPrevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam "What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as spam?" Don't use "spammy" Subjects. Don't use ALL CAPITALS. Make sure that there is a plain text part. "Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam?" The internet headers the From: header are two different things. The From: address needs to be a real email address. How are you setting it. On 3 Mar 2011 at 16:58, Brad Marks wrote: > We are putting together a small Access 2007 Application which will > automatically send Emails when orders are received and when orders are > shipped. > > Everything seems to be working nicely in our initial system tests. > > However, this is new territory for us and we have some concern that > our automatically generated Emails will be categorized as spam by the > various Emails programs that are used by our customers who will be > receiving our Emails. > > Admittedly, these questions are more "Email" questions than "Access" > questions, but I thought that some of you many have run into these > issues previously and may be able to point us in the right direction. > > What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as > spam? > > In the Email header info, I can see the computer name like this... > > from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com > > We would like to use an Email "From" address like > "Order_Confirmation at AcmeLtd.com. > > Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to > reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam? > > Again, this is a new area for us. We have tried to find info on the > internet, but no relevant articles have been found so far. > > Thanks in advance for your help, insights, advice. > > Brad > > PS. A couple weeks ago, my wife and I visited the Hormel Spam Museum > in Austin, Minnesota. One of their many displays is a video of the > Monty Python "Spam" skit which some people claim was the origin of the > word "spam" (as in unwanted Email). > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From michael at mattysconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 20:22:55 2011 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 21:22:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? Can we get back to the debate, please? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? ROTFL. That would be you. I have a high school education and some hours of community college. Life is strange sometimes. Circumstances didn't align for me getting a degree. My wife has one though, does that count? So, we have established who is the educated one. But I have read the books; I just strictly differentiate between academics and real world. And I have made my living in designing databases since 1994. It has been a good living. And I have made a living learning and writing applications in numerous programming languages. And I read virtually every day to stay abreast of what I need to know to do my job well. So let's just say I know your terms, I understand your terms, and I could care less about your terms. So whip out the "I'm educated" thing on someone else 'cause it doesn't do a thing for me. And by the way you still are not telling us (and Microsoft) what we are supposed to call this ... uh... hm... I don't know what to call it now... you know... the autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. Man that just sounds so... uneducated. ;) Believe me I *do* want to know so that I can avoid the next peeing match. I will try to insert your favorite name for this object in the discussion from here on out. Just an FYI, I really do know and understand normalization. I really do know and understand candidate keys. I really do search for a candidate key to cover with a unique index to enforce data uniqueness. I really do understand multi-field primary keys. I made an ... well... I hesitate to call it... an "educated" decision to *not* use them in favor of the ... here we go again... that autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. You don't know how sad it makes me to know I can no longer tell people I make "educated" decisions. 8( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 3:10 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is > just silly.>> > > That's not the point. > > <> > > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is > educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 20:44:27 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 21:44:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> Message-ID: <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> AFAICT there is no debate other than what to call the auto-increment pointer thingy. As soon as we stop calling it a PK Jim seems to be happy. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 9:22 PM, Michael Mattys wrote: > > Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? > I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? > > Can we get back to the debate, please? > > Michael R Mattys > Business Process Developers > www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 21:45:18 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 22:45:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] In Pictures: 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - Forbes.com Message-ID: <4D70604E.9060805@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://www.forbes.com/2011/02/23/dumbest-warning-labels-entrepreneurs-sales-marketing-warning-labels_slide.html From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 3 21:46:35 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 13:46:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway>, <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D70609B.25766.27FFBBC2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If you chose to use an auto-increment pointer thingy as the primary key for relationship purposes, then by definition - it is a PK. If Jim choses to use one real world value or a composite collection of them as the primary key for relationship purposes, then that too is a PK. The PK is whatever *you* chose as the "primary" way to uniquely identify records. The choice between the two ways of doing so comes down to a personal decision by the designer. Neither way is "correct" or "the only way". All I know is that in my experience, I've seen complications/problems caused by using natural keys as the PK, I've never had a problem with an autonumber so that's what I chose to use. -- Stuart On 3 Mar 2011 at 21:44, jwcolby wrote: > AFAICT there is no debate other than what to call the auto-increment > pointer thingy. As soon as we stop calling it a PK Jim seems to be > happy. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/3/2011 9:22 PM, Michael Mattys wrote: > > > > Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? > > I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? > > > > Can we get back to the debate, please? > > > > Michael R Mattys > > Business Process Developers > > www.mattysconsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 4 04:05:02 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 13:05:02 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D70609B.25766.27FFBBC2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway>, <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> <4D70609B.25766.27FFBBC2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart -- <<< I've never had a problem with an autonumber >>> "There is no free cheese in this world" you know :) - replication could create subtle collision issues when autonumbers used - and that would be another kind of collision from the one which could "arise its ugly head" when natural PKs are used; - memory overhead is another issue as Jim noted ("consistent data modelers" do neglect it); - ... Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 6:47 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server If you chose to use an auto-increment pointer thingy as the primary key for relationship purposes, then by definition - it is a PK. If Jim choses to use one real world value or a composite collection of them as the primary key for relationship purposes, then that too is a PK. The PK is whatever *you* chose as the "primary" way to uniquely identify records. The choice between the two ways of doing so comes down to a personal decision by the designer. Neither way is "correct" or "the only way". All I know is that in my experience, I've seen complications/problems caused by using natural keys as the PK, I've never had a problem with an autonumber so that's what I chose to use. -- Stuart On 3 Mar 2011 at 21:44, jwcolby wrote: > AFAICT there is no debate other than what to call the auto-increment > pointer thingy. As soon as we stop calling it a PK Jim seems to be > happy. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/3/2011 9:22 PM, Michael Mattys wrote: > > > > Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? > > I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? > > > > Can we get back to the debate, please? > > > > Michael R Mattys > > Business Process Developers > > www.mattysconsulting.com > -- From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Mar 4 06:30:10 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 04:30:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: <4D70DB52.7030306@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All Come on now. PK this and PK that, very very interesting discussion. In my younger years I got a job with Fish and Wildlife. I would be doing field work for a branch office about 100 miles from where I lived. I was told when I get there the CO would meet me and describe the area I would be working in. Now coming from a military background CO meant the Commanding Officer. As a young sprout all the way driving up there I was thinking "Hey Zeus first day on the job and I am going to be meeting with the Commanding Officer, very cool." Turned out when I got there that CO meant Conservation Officer (wildlife cop). Sorry just trying to lighten things up, true story though. From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 07:53:04 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 07:53:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: In Pictures: 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - Forbes.com Message-ID: <001201cbda73$7cc26540$76472fc0$@comcast.net> These seem dumb, but the companies know that. The labels are there because there is some government requirement, or because someone tried to do that, got hurt, and sued (like blow drying your hair while asleep?). I agree with the deer crossing signs - lots of deer where I live and drivers need to know (1 dead deer = 1 totaled car). But we also need car crossing signs so the deer know to be careful too. LOL! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] In Pictures: 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - Forbes.com -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://www.forbes.com/2011/02/23/dumbest-warning-labels-entrepreneurs-sales- marketing-warning-labels_slide.html -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 4 08:09:02 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 15:09:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Asger et al So true. Had to maintain a system with up to five-field compound PKs. Terrible. /gustav >>> ab-mi at post3.tele.dk 04-03-2011 00:45 >>> Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 4 08:10:08 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 15:10:08 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Shamil et al This is where GUIDs come in. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 04-03-2011 11:05 >>> Hi Stuart -- <<< I've never had a problem with an autonumber >>> "There is no free cheese in this world" you know :) - replication could create subtle collision issues when autonumbers used - and that would be another kind of collision from the one which could "arise its ugly head" when natural PKs are used; - memory overhead is another issue as Jim noted ("consistent data modelers" do neglect it); - ... Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Thank you. -- Shamil From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 4 08:20:53 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 17:20:53 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- I meant Alternative (Natural) Keys Collisions with PKs ((Random) Autonumbers or GUIDs) having different values. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 17:10 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Shamil et al This is where GUIDs come in. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 04-03-2011 11:05 >>> Hi Stuart -- <<< I've never had a problem with an autonumber >>> "There is no free cheese in this world" you know :) - replication could create subtle collision issues when autonumbers used - and that would be another kind of collision from the one which could "arise its ugly head" when natural PKs are used; - memory overhead is another issue as Jim noted ("consistent data modelers" do neglect it); - ... Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Thank you. -- Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 11:43:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 12:43:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: NUMA memory, dual sockets and memory usage Message-ID: <4D7124D4.9000903@colbyconsulting.com> I built a server with dual cpu sockets but I only populated one side and put all of the memory in that side (8) 4 gig dimms. If I were to put another process in the other socket, what would happen in the case where only a single core in one chip needed as much memory as possible. I assume that it could access the memory on the other socket through the CPU on that socket? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 11:44:41 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 12:44:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... Message-ID: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the other day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just could not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a control, get it set up the way you want - font, font size, back color etc - and then format / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they purchased 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know anything before I go upgrade them. AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any other caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 12:05:33 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 12:05:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... In-Reply-To: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> I don't think that labels have a default property - text boxes do. For a text box, the default value in in properties, under Data. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the other day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just could not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a control, get it set up the way you want - font, font size, back color etc - and then format / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they purchased 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know anything before I go upgrade them. AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any other caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 12:47:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 13:47:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... In-Reply-To: <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> No that is not what I am taking about. Not default property, default *settings*. It is a format thing. when you set up a form you can say "when I drag a control (in this case a label) out onto the form I want it to look like this..." In 2003 open a form in design view. select a label in the menu, select format / set control defaults THAT is what I am trying to find in Access 2007. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/4/2011 1:05 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > I don't think that labels have a default property - text boxes do. For a > text box, the default value in in properties, under Data. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... > > LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the other > day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. > > I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just could > not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a control, get it > set up the way you want - font, font size, back color etc - and then format > / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. > > Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? > > Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they purchased > 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know > anything before I go upgrade them. > > AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. > Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any other > caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 14:06:57 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:06:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... In-Reply-To: <4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> <4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> I found this: http://allenbrowne.com/ser-43.html And - after 13 years of programming access, I did not know about this feature. OMG - What else don't I know?!? Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 12:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... No that is not what I am taking about. Not default property, default *settings*. It is a format thing. when you set up a form you can say "when I drag a control (in this case a label) out onto the form I want it to look like this..." In 2003 open a form in design view. select a label in the menu, select format / set control defaults THAT is what I am trying to find in Access 2007. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/4/2011 1:05 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > I don't think that labels have a default property - text boxes do. > For a text box, the default value in in properties, under Data. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... > > LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the > other day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. > > I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just > could not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a > control, get it set up the way you want - font, font size, back color > etc - and then format / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. > > Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? > > Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they > purchased > 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know > anything before I go upgrade them. > > AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. > Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any > other caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Fri Mar 4 14:55:59 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:55:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> Message-ID: We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 15:16:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 16:16:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Finding the Set Control Defaults - Office Watch Message-ID: <4D715695.6080806@colbyconsulting.com> Here it is! http://news.office-watch.com/t/n.aspx?articleid=987&zoneid=30 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Fri Mar 4 16:10:36 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 23:10:36 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> Message-ID: <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Hi Shamil In another posting you wrote: > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. >From a logical design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 4 16:31:06 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 01:31:06 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc><394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Message-ID: Hi Asger -- <<< So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? >>> I do not care how to call a surrogate key - a "physical PK" is OK with me. :) As I noted I do care more on "consistent data modeling" when all and every table gets surrogate PK - as you and John do - I do the same, and I did have to get and to fix legacy data models "nightmares" with five levels hierarchies of natural keys propagating from upper to the lower level of that hierarchy... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 1:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Shamil In another posting you wrote: > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. >From a logical design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 4 16:43:09 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 08:43:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Message-ID: <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need to differentiate according to what the key is based on. -- Stuart On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > Hi Shamil > > In another posting you wrote: > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design point > of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from > a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate > auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the > surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the > combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? > > Asger > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Hi Asger -- > > <<< > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which > *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is > what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to > all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure > relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond > Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Jim, > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so > far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of > using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK > key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I > use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead > compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what > happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the > story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you > only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a > natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many > columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much > bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will > create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even > more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then > chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one > imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one > column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking > table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. > > Asger > > <<< snip >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 16:47:47 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:47:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I love developers that use SSN and/or email addresses as PKs. Those never change, or are never faked. From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Fri Mar 4 18:52:01 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 01:52:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need to differentiate according to what the key is based on. -- Stuart On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > Hi Shamil > > In another posting you wrote: > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design point > of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from > a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate > auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the > surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the > combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? > > Asger > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Hi Asger -- > > <<< > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which > *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is > what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to > all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure > relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond > Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Jim, > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so > far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of > using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK > key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I > use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead > compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what > happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the > story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you > only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a > natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many > columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much > bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will > create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even > more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then > chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one > imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one > column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking > table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. > > Asger > > <<< snip >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 4 19:09:01 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 11:09:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Message-ID: <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies > each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate > unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in > every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just > add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural > column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical > PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My > point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a > logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of > more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each > record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But > that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual > ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be > prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the > actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have > learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If > the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products > table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate > ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two > quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: > ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate > ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer > don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK > and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the > natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical > sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key > for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need > to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > -- > Stuart > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Hi Shamil > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design > > point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. > > But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a > > surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) > > calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key > > points to the combined natural key which then should be named a > > "logical PK"? > > > > Asger > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > <<< > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for > > pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Jim, > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting > > so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead > > of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate > > PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if > > I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an > > overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. > > But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? > > Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main > > table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - > > using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as > > many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a > > much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally > > will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table > > then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each > > one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with > > one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a > > linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child > > tables. > > > > Asger > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Fri Mar 4 19:28:02 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 02:28:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <552C7783AC164A33A0B0B9BEB6827192@abpc> Stuart, Worried, are you feeling well? Don't understand a word of your mumble. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan Sendt: 5. marts 2011 02:09 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies > each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate > unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in > every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just > add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural > column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical > PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My > point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a > logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of > more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each > record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But > that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual > ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be > prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the > actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have > learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If > the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products > table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate > ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two > quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: > ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate > ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer > don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK > and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the > natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical > sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key > for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need > to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > -- > Stuart > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Hi Shamil > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design > > point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. > > But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a > > surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) > > calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key > > points to the combined natural key which then should be named a > > "logical PK"? > > > > Asger > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > <<< > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for > > pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Jim, > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting > > so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead > > of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate > > PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if > > I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an > > overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. > > But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? > > Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main > > table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - > > using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as > > many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a > > much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally > > will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table > > then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each > > one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with > > one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a > > linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child > > tables. > > > > Asger > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 4 20:04:39 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 12:04:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Abbreviations and the Great Debate was (Access and SQL Server) In-Reply-To: <552C7783AC164A33A0B0B9BEB6827192@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <552C7783AC164A33A0B0B9BEB6827192@abpc> Message-ID: <4D719A37.15730.2CC8C3C6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You'll notice that I have changed the subject! D,RFC = Ducking, Running For Cover! I knew as soon as I saw the first posting that it would end up as another round of the great surrogate/natural PK debate that somehow comes up every year or so on the list with no- one's opinions being changed. I really didn't want to get dragged into it again -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 2:28, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart, > Worried, are you feeling well? Don't understand a word of your mumble. > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 5. marts 2011 02:09 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > B*gger, > > I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this > debate after all. > > I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was > the very succint > > > D,RFC :-) > > > And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! > > -- > Stuart > > > On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Stuart (and Shamil) > > > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > > words... > > > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely > > identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a > > surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be > > present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you > > can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't > > have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are > > unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table > > won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking > > about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one > > or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely > > identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always > > need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as > > the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it > > may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make > > this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with > > customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use > > surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the > > primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use > > an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this > > would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is > > actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design > > language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design > > language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for > > choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is > > wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a > > PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > > > Asger > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) > > key for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no > > need to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > > > Hi Shamil > > > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? > > > > Anybody? > > > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear > > > up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical > > > design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms > > > the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be > > > implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be > > > happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", > > > admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which > > > then should be named a "logical PK"? > > > > > > Asger > > > > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > > Server > > > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > > > <<< > > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK > > > for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are > > > many... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > > > Jim, > > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole > > > posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the > > > overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of > > > just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that > > > using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique > > > index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural > > > columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So > > > in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a > > > natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I > > > think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that > > > the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the > > > composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to > > > create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite > > > different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a > > > FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural > > > composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns > > > as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much > > > bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will > > > create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child > > > table then chances are that you might need two or more child > > > tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a > > > surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate > > > PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem > > > to need child tables. > > > > > > Asger > > > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 21:16:46 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 22:16:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Message-ID: <4D71AB1E.4020006@colbyconsulting.com> And didn't I say exactly that at the very beginning of this thread? Anyone who lets the customer dictate the actual design of the database needs to be in a different business. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/4/2011 7:52 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. > When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. > > Asger From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat Mar 5 05:37:22 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 14:37:22 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc><4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Message-ID: <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> Hi Asger -- <<< When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. >>> Let me note that in the case of unique rows "maximal (length) logical PK" would be combination of all columns' values of a row. I suppose I'm in your and JC's camp - let me be in? :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 3:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger <<< snip >> From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat Mar 5 08:30:20 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 15:30:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc><4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> Message-ID: Hi Shamil Exactly - and you are welcome :-) Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 5. marts 2011 12:37 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. >>> Let me note that in the case of unique rows "maximal (length) logical PK" would be combination of all columns' values of a row. I suppose I'm in your and JC's camp - let me be in? :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 3:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Mar 5 10:24:19 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 10:24:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times In-Reply-To: References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000c01cbdb51$c85c30b0$59149210$@comcast.net> Hi Brad, My systems I do something similar to allow/disallow actions based on a user's job role, or if they are an administrator, or the developer (me). All of the data for these settings is stored in the BE database file in a variety of tables - but they could also be installed in a separate BE file just as well. I think your approach is sound. And I'm assuming that you have a client/system configuration (several FE's on client PC's with the data stored in one or more BE data files on a server). If your system typically takes only 1/2 second to set the tabs, but sometimes it takes 15 seconds, I'd have to say the first thing to look at is a network connection that is causing the delay. So you'll need to enlist your IT folks for some help. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sat Mar 5 11:47:01 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 11:47:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> <000c01cbdb51$c85c30b0$59149210$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Dan, Thanks for your insights. I will discuss this issue some more with our network folks. I know that I can eliminate the occasional slowness by using a local table or "hard coding" the permissions. These approaches will make it more difficult to retain the control of the information in the hands of the application administrator, however. I have given some thought to reading the control file and using it to generate VBA code. This would, however, require a two-step approach (1) administrator changes the data (2) Access developer uses the data to generate new VBA code and then moves this new code from TEST to PROD. This is not ideal, but it may be better than the occasional slowness if we cannot find the root cause. Thanks again, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Dan Waters Sent: Sat 3/5/2011 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times Hi Brad, My systems I do something similar to allow/disallow actions based on a user's job role, or if they are an administrator, or the developer (me). All of the data for these settings is stored in the BE database file in a variety of tables - but they could also be installed in a separate BE file just as well. I think your approach is sound. And I'm assuming that you have a client/system configuration (several FE's on client PC's with the data stored in one or more BE data files on a server). If your system typically takes only 1/2 second to set the tabs, but sometimes it takes 15 seconds, I'd have to say the first thing to look at is a network connection that is causing the delay. So you'll need to enlist your IT folks for some help. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Sat Mar 5 15:44:36 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:44:36 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times In-Reply-To: References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net><000c01cbdb51$c85c30b0$59149210$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <77784D707F5948E68BA95B97666C5210@stevelaptop> Hi Brad, One thing you could consider is reading those data from the external control tables at the time when the application is started up. Since you are using Access 2007, it may be applicable to use TempVars. Alternatively, copy the data into local tables, and then have your procedures relate to the local copies of the data rather than to the external control tables themselves. That way, if there is any slowness, it will be at startup, rather than during production usage time, and therefore not so disruptive. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Brad Marks Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 6:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times Dan, Thanks for your insights. I will discuss this issue some more with our network folks. I know that I can eliminate the occasional slowness by using a local table or "hard coding" the permissions. These approaches will make it more difficult to retain the control of the information in the hands of the application administrator, however. I have given some thought to reading the control file and using it to generate VBA code. This would, however, require a two-step approach (1) administrator changes the data (2) Access developer uses the data to generate new VBA code and then moves this new code from TEST to PROD. This is not ideal, but it may be better than the occasional slowness if we cannot find the root cause. Thanks again, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Dan Waters Sent: Sat 3/5/2011 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times Hi Brad, My systems I do something similar to allow/disallow actions based on a user's job role, or if they are an administrator, or the developer (me). All of the data for these settings is stored in the BE database file in a variety of tables - but they could also be installed in a separate BE file just as well. I think your approach is sound. And I'm assuming that you have a client/system configuration (several FE's on client PC's with the data stored in one or more BE data files on a server). If your system typically takes only 1/2 second to set the tabs, but sometimes it takes 15 seconds, I'd have to say the first thing to look at is a network connection that is causing the delay. So you'll need to enlist your IT folks for some help. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:29:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:29:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> Message-ID: Asger, Sorry about being MIA on this, but I had some major systems work to perform at an out of town client this past weekend, so time was very limited Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. <> That's the point where you'd tack on an auto number, but I don't agree with a design where you do that up front just for the sake of consistency. Even with the extended/non-simple linking table that Stuart brought up (which I don't think of as a linking table even though he was correct in that it really is one), I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 06:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 1. marts 2011 21:23 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Lambert, It needs a unique index, which the Author/Book combination provides. Not sure why the original post got formatted that way, but it should have looked like this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B Which might be clearer. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 01:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:46:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:46:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc><394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Message-ID: <3C802977CDBA410D86845C4A1969E5CC@XPS> Shamil, Consider though that the only reason it is a nightmare is the issue of performance. If that didn't exist as an issue, would there be any problem with using natural primary keys or surrogates (not a meaningless key). My answer to that would be no. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 05:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? >>> I do not care how to call a surrogate key - a "physical PK" is OK with me. :) As I noted I do care more on "consistent data modeling" when all and every table gets surrogate PK - as you and John do - I do the same, and I did have to get and to fix legacy data models "nightmares" with five levels hierarchies of natural keys propagating from upper to the lower level of that hierarchy... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 1:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Shamil In another posting you wrote: > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. >From a logical design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:46:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:46:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> Message-ID: <> I think that point was lost on John...I wasn't talking about education only in terms of schooling. As for the "debate" I really don't think there is much of one. My point that we all use primary keys in our applications despite the fact that we all use auto numbers for physical keys is correct. Whether its by having additional indexes or simply arranging our user interfaces in specific ways to present data, primary keys are used. By being cognizant of the differences between what a true primary key is and something that is labeled as such in table design even though it is not lets you build better apps. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 09:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? Can we get back to the debate, please? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? ROTFL. That would be you. I have a high school education and some hours of community college. Life is strange sometimes. Circumstances didn't align for me getting a degree. My wife has one though, does that count? So, we have established who is the educated one. But I have read the books; I just strictly differentiate between academics and real world. And I have made my living in designing databases since 1994. It has been a good living. And I have made a living learning and writing applications in numerous programming languages. And I read virtually every day to stay abreast of what I need to know to do my job well. So let's just say I know your terms, I understand your terms, and I could care less about your terms. So whip out the "I'm educated" thing on someone else 'cause it doesn't do a thing for me. And by the way you still are not telling us (and Microsoft) what we are supposed to call this ... uh... hm... I don't know what to call it now... you know... the autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. Man that just sounds so... uneducated. ;) Believe me I *do* want to know so that I can avoid the next peeing match. I will try to insert your favorite name for this object in the discussion from here on out. Just an FYI, I really do know and understand normalization. I really do know and understand candidate keys. I really do search for a candidate key to cover with a unique index to enforce data uniqueness. I really do understand multi-field primary keys. I made an ... well... I hesitate to call it... an "educated" decision to *not* use them in favor of the ... here we go again... that autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. You don't know how sad it makes me to know I can no longer tell people I make "educated" decisions. 8( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 3:10 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is > just silly.>> > > That's not the point. > > <> > > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is > educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:52:25 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:52:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc><4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> Message-ID: <8CB99E61901E491BB33FCEFC7C03EF2D@XPS> Shamil, <> Yes, that would be what is referred to as a "supper key"; any combination of one or more attributes that can form a unique combination is a super key. Out of that group comes the candidates and then out of that group, one is chosen as a primary key. That candidate being the one which is as minimal as possible, as familiar as possible, and as stable as possible. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 06:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. >>> Let me note that in the case of unique rows "maximal (length) logical PK" would be combination of all columns' values of a row. I suppose I'm in your and JC's camp - let me be in? :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 3:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:52:25 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:52:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <18947638A2BF4F5CAC4AC9119ADA12E6@XPS> Stuart, Ah come on, it's been a little too quiet around here for too long... Seems we cover more off-topic things then anything else around here lately. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 08:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies > each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate > unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in > every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just > add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural > column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical > PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My > point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a > logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of > more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each > record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But > that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual > ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be > prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the > actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have > learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If > the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products > table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate > ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two > quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: > ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate > ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer > don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK > and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the > natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical > sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key > for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need > to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > -- > Stuart > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Hi Shamil > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design > > point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. > > But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a > > surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) > > calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key > > points to the combined natural key which then should be named a > > "logical PK"? > > > > Asger > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > <<< > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for > > pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Jim, > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting > > so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead > > of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate > > PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if > > I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an > > overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. > > But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? > > Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main > > table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - > > using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as > > many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a > > much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally > > will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table > > then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each > > one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with > > one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a > > linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child > > tables. > > > > Asger > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 7 09:18:06 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 16:18:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 09:22:18 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 10:22:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gustav, Well you may shoot yourself in the foot at times with that approach. In the book/author linking table example I gave, what if you had millions of rows? Your going to maintain an extra index on the auto number key simply because you want one when the book ID/Author ID works fine as a key and you need a index on it anyway? Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:18 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Mar 7 10:12:41 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:12:41 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Jim and All -- <<< No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. >>> Yes. As for performance issues for millions of rows as you Jim noted - some very small performance loss on inserting a row can be neglected. Jim, let me suppose this my answer will be also an answer on two your other today's postings here addressed to me? 2All: for the case of surrogate PK and a natural (compound) alternate key - which one will you make based on a clustered index and which one - based on non-clustered and why? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 7 ????? 2011 ?. 18:18 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Mar 7 10:15:24 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:15:24 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <18947638A2BF4F5CAC4AC9119ADA12E6@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc><4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <18947638A2BF4F5CAC4AC9119ADA12E6@XPS> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- <<< Ah come on, it's been a little too quiet around here for too long... >>> Yes! :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 7 ????? 2011 ?. 17:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart, Ah come on, it's been a little too quiet around here for too long... Seems we cover more off-topic things then anything else around here lately. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 08:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart <<< snip >>> From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 7 10:58:12 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:58:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Jim I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a an autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for updates of other fields, and tables that large typically are for appending/reading only. But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where possible. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 16:22 >>> Gustav, Well you may shoot yourself in the foot at times with that approach. In the book/author linking table example I gave, what if you had millions of rows? Your going to maintain an extra index on the auto number key simply because you want one when the book ID/Author ID works fine as a key and you need a index on it anyway? Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:18 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 18:00:04 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:00:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Let us distinguish two problems: The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an arbitrary-numbered case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid which eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level of detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and potentially life-saving. The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or windshield or manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike the aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift and a line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which attributes we choose to model. IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number problem, but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, this latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my piece at Red Gate's site). Arthur On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim > > I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a an > autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for updates of > other fields, and tables that large typically are for appending/reading > only. > > But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where possible. > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 16:22 >>> > Gustav, > > Well you may shoot yourself in the foot at times with that approach. > > In the book/author linking table example I gave, what if you had millions > of rows? Your going to maintain an extra index on the auto number key > simply because you want one when the book ID/Author ID works fine as a key > and you need a index on it anyway? > > Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:18 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Hi Jim > > In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily > even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. > Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, > same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. > > I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable > compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber > Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It > makes > life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a > lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> > > I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK > some where. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 8 05:42:02 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 12:42:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] PITA and temporal database (was: Access and SQL Server) Message-ID: Hi Arthur This is what you brought up 4? years ago: --- >>> artful at rogers.com 2006-11-22 13:14:50 >>> There is a whole other subject on this, about which I have written, but I googled it and it didn't come up, so perhaps I wrote it and forgot to sell it to somebody. The gist is this: it's called PITA, which doesn't mean pain in the arse, but rather Point In Time Architecture. Without PITA, the central problem with relational databases is that they don't provide an instant "roll back to August 1" capability. With PITA, they do. It's not all that complicated, but it does require a detailed walk-through so you can understand all the implications, the most critical of which is, "Nothing is ever updated. An updated row is actually replaced, and the updated row's EndDate column is updated to reflect the datetime on which the row was "changed". Thus it becomes possible to issue a query that reflects the state of the database on August 1, 2005. Obviously this increases the size of the db significantly, but in certain environments (such as medical), this is critical -- who was JWC's physician on that date, and what tests were performed, and by which medicos, and so on. So. Today's job is to dig out that PITA article and pitch it to somebody. --- Somehow you must have succeeded because your writing can found here, dated 2007-02-22: http://www.simple-talk.com/sql/database-administration/database-design-a-point-in-time-architecture/ As I wrote back also on 2006-11-22, what you describe is a temporal database or - more precise - a bitemporal: In the literature, two time lines of interest have been mentioned, transaction time and valid time. The valid time line represents when a fact is valid in modelled world (i.e. when it was believed) and the transaction time line represents when a transaction was performed. A bitemporal database is a combination of valid time and transaction time databases where these two time lines are considered to be orthogonal. (Snodgrass & Ahn 1986) This is a fascinating area, and your article describes nicely how - using SQL Server - to deal with some of the issues for a practical implementation of this theory (from 1986). However, I miss the connection to your eggs. To me, the collection of eggs describes rather a batch: A given population of 200 hens produce each day a collected batch of eggs which perhaps are stamped with a producer id and batch id but at least packed with other eggs from the same batch only. The batch id is written on the package. This way a bad egg at the consumer can be tracked back to the package, the producer, the date, the packing machine, the population of hens, and - perhaps - the possible bags of corn (or whatever) used to feed these hens. You will record all associated data in a write-once/read-many database, but as you by definition never will change or correct these data, I see no scenario for a temporal or PITA database, it's more like a log file. The only date field needed here is the packing date. And how about the autonumber and the index maintenance Jim brought up? /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 08-03-2011 01:00 >>> Let us distinguish two problems: The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an arbitrary-numbered case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid which eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level of detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and potentially life-saving. The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or windshield or manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike the aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift and a line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which attributes we choose to model. IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number problem, but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, this latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my piece at Red Gate's site). Arthur On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim > > I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a an > autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for updates of > other fields, and tables that large typically are for appending/reading > only. > > But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where possible. > > /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 8 08:49:43 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 09:49:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] PITA and temporal database (was: Access and SQL Server) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D764207.7060906@colbyconsulting.com> While this is a nice idea, and perhaps critical somewhere, I cannot see it being usable in most environments. I have a claim table with 50 or 100 fields and I am going to store all of that again because a single date in one field is changed? In an ideal world without real world constraints, go for it. However we are replacing natural keys with surrogates because of issues with storing just a handful of fields "over again" and the negative impacts on speed and storage requirements that natural keys bring. If I were going to do a temporal kind of db I would go with a "normalized" solution where I stored just the PKID of the record changing, name of the field (or ID of the field) the "old" field data, and the change time. Then you end up with a "change log" concept. All of which demands intense analysis to determine where the change log becomes less efficient than storing the whole record. One way or the other (in my experience), very few clients are willing to pay for this kind of thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/8/2011 6:42 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > This is what you brought up 4? years ago: > > --- >>>> artful at rogers.com 2006-11-22 13:14:50>>> > > There is a whole other subject on this, about which I have written, but > I googled it and it didn't come up, so perhaps I wrote it and forgot to > sell it to somebody. The gist is this: it's called PITA, which doesn't > mean pain in the arse, but rather Point In Time Architecture. Without > PITA, the central problem with relational databases is that they don't > provide an instant "roll back to August 1" capability. With PITA, they > do. It's not all that complicated, but it does require a detailed > walk-through so you can understand all the implications, the most > critical of which is, "Nothing is ever updated. An updated row is > actually replaced, and the updated row's EndDate column is updated to > reflect the datetime on which the row was "changed". Thus it becomes > possible to issue a query that reflects the state of the database on > August 1, 2005. Obviously this increases the size of the db > significantly, but in certain environments (such as medical), this is > critical -- who was JWC's physician on that date, and what tests were > performed, and by which medicos, and so on. > > So. Today's job is to dig out that PITA article and pitch it to > somebody. > --- > > Somehow you must have succeeded because your writing can found here, > dated 2007-02-22: > > http://www.simple-talk.com/sql/database-administration/database-design-a-point-in-time-architecture/ > > As I wrote back also on 2006-11-22, what you describe is a temporal > database or - more precise - a bitemporal: > > > In the literature, two time lines of interest have been mentioned, > transaction time and valid time. The valid time line represents when a > fact is valid in modelled world (i.e. when it was believed) and the > transaction time line represents when a transaction was performed. A > bitemporal database is a combination of valid time and transaction time > databases where these two time lines are considered to be orthogonal. > (Snodgrass& Ahn 1986) > > > This is a fascinating area, and your article describes nicely how - > using SQL Server - to deal with some of the issues for a practical > implementation of this theory (from 1986). > > However, I miss the connection to your eggs. > > To me, the collection of eggs describes rather a batch: A given > population of 200 hens produce each day a collected batch of eggs which > perhaps are stamped with a producer id and batch id but at least packed > with other eggs from the same batch only. The batch id is written on the > package. > This way a bad egg at the consumer can be tracked back to the package, > the producer, the date, the packing machine, the population of hens, and > - perhaps - the possible bags of corn (or whatever) used to feed these > hens. > You will record all associated data in a write-once/read-many database, > but as you by definition never will change or correct these data, I see > no scenario for a temporal or PITA database, it's more like a log file. > The only date field needed here is the packing date. > > And how about the autonumber and the index maintenance Jim brought up? > > /gustav > > >>>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 08-03-2011 01:00>>> > Let us distinguish two problems: > > The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays > several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an > arbitrary-numbered > case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid > which > eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level > of > detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and > potentially > life-saving. > > The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or > windshield or > manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike > the > aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift > and a > line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. > > Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which > attributes we > choose to model. > > IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number > problem, > but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, > this > latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time > Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my > piece at > Red Gate's site). > > Arthur > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Gustav Brock > wrote: > >> Hi Jim >> >> I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a > an >> autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for > updates of >> other fields, and tables that large typically are for > appending/reading >> only. >> >> But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where > possible. >> >> /gustav From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 8 09:53:48 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 16:53:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] PITA and temporal database (was: Access and SQL Server) Message-ID: Hi John It is even worse - if you consider referential integrity. If so, you have to record the object itself as the first and then, in separate table(s), any attribute that may change over time. Thus, for example for a customer table, as everything can change except the registration number (VAT or whatever), your main table may end up containing only this and the Id, while the name of the company, address, and phone number, etc. must be kept in one or more child tables. However, it may not turn out that labourious. Think about it: How often do you need all info of a customer? But you are right. Even though this is an extremely powerful storing method, the client still has to pay. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 08-03-2011 15:49 >>> While this is a nice idea, and perhaps critical somewhere, I cannot see it being usable in most environments. I have a claim table with 50 or 100 fields and I am going to store all of that again because a single date in one field is changed? In an ideal world without real world constraints, go for it. However we are replacing natural keys with surrogates because of issues with storing just a handful of fields "over again" and the negative impacts on speed and storage requirements that natural keys bring. If I were going to do a temporal kind of db I would go with a "normalized" solution where I stored just the PKID of the record changing, name of the field (or ID of the field) the "old" field data, and the change time. Then you end up with a "change log" concept. All of which demands intense analysis to determine where the change log becomes less efficient than storing the whole record. One way or the other (in my experience), very few clients are willing to pay for this kind of thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/8/2011 6:42 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > This is what you brought up 4? years ago: > > --- >>>> artful at rogers.com 2006-11-22 13:14:50>>> > > There is a whole other subject on this, about which I have written, but > I googled it and it didn't come up, so perhaps I wrote it and forgot to > sell it to somebody. The gist is this: it's called PITA, which doesn't > mean pain in the arse, but rather Point In Time Architecture. Without > PITA, the central problem with relational databases is that they don't > provide an instant "roll back to August 1" capability. With PITA, they > do. It's not all that complicated, but it does require a detailed > walk-through so you can understand all the implications, the most > critical of which is, "Nothing is ever updated. An updated row is > actually replaced, and the updated row's EndDate column is updated to > reflect the datetime on which the row was "changed". Thus it becomes > possible to issue a query that reflects the state of the database on > August 1, 2005. Obviously this increases the size of the db > significantly, but in certain environments (such as medical), this is > critical -- who was JWC's physician on that date, and what tests were > performed, and by which medicos, and so on. > > So. Today's job is to dig out that PITA article and pitch it to > somebody. > --- > > Somehow you must have succeeded because your writing can found here, > dated 2007-02-22: > > http://www.simple-talk.com/sql/database-administration/database-design-a-point-in-time-architecture/ > > As I wrote back also on 2006-11-22, what you describe is a temporal > database or - more precise - a bitemporal: > > > In the literature, two time lines of interest have been mentioned, > transaction time and valid time. The valid time line represents when a > fact is valid in modelled world (i.e. when it was believed) and the > transaction time line represents when a transaction was performed. A > bitemporal database is a combination of valid time and transaction time > databases where these two time lines are considered to be orthogonal. > (Snodgrass& Ahn 1986) > > > This is a fascinating area, and your article describes nicely how - > using SQL Server - to deal with some of the issues for a practical > implementation of this theory (from 1986). > > However, I miss the connection to your eggs. > > To me, the collection of eggs describes rather a batch: A given > population of 200 hens produce each day a collected batch of eggs which > perhaps are stamped with a producer id and batch id but at least packed > with other eggs from the same batch only. The batch id is written on the > package. > This way a bad egg at the consumer can be tracked back to the package, > the producer, the date, the packing machine, the population of hens, and > - perhaps - the possible bags of corn (or whatever) used to feed these > hens. > You will record all associated data in a write-once/read-many database, > but as you by definition never will change or correct these data, I see > no scenario for a temporal or PITA database, it's more like a log file. > The only date field needed here is the packing date. > > And how about the autonumber and the index maintenance Jim brought up? > > /gustav > > >>>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 08-03-2011 01:00>>> > Let us distinguish two problems: > > The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays > several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an arbitrary-numbered > case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid which > eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level of > detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and potentially > life-saving. > > The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or windshield or > manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike the > aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift and a > line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. > > Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which attributes we > choose to model. > > IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number problem, > but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, this > latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time > Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my piece at > Red Gate's site). > > Arthur From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Tue Mar 8 10:09:06 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 08:09:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Nested Sub Querys Message-ID: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All As Dan said OMG how much don't I know. When fooling around with SQL Server I found you could next multiple subquerys in the pass- through SQL string. I tried the same logic with Access and sure enough it works. And "Duh" did some research and it has been there all along. Sure speeds things up when you are dealing with very large tables of data. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 8 12:44:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 13:44:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Nested Sub Querys In-Reply-To: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D767925.6010904@colbyconsulting.com> Are you talking about WHERE PK in (SELECT PK FROM SomeOtherSet) kind of thing? I am using that a ton in SQL Server. It turns non-updateable queries (joined to something else) into updateable queries. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/8/2011 11:09 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > As Dan said OMG how much don't I know. > When fooling around with SQL Server I found you could next multiple subquerys in the pass- through > SQL string. I tried the same logic with Access and sure enough it works. And "Duh" did some research > and it has been there all along. Sure speeds things up when you are dealing with very large tables > of data. From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 13:12:19 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 11:12:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view Message-ID: I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting from one table. The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the role at the table level. The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. Any ideas? From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 13:28:48 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 13:28:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Message-ID: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 8 14:51:13 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 07:51:13 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 8 15:01:30 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 08:01:30 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 15:23:53 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 15:23:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> Are you talking about the entire suite or just the Total Access Analyzer? JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 8 15:40:48 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 00:40:48 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- Just put that fields' and tables' names into square brackets wherever you'll be referencing them. But if you have time and there are not that much places to rename that fields and tables - do renaming. The issues when that fields' and tables' names are not put into square brackets could be (query) compilation errors as well as "strange behavior" of MS Access including GPF-ing... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 8 ????? 2011 ?. 22:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 16:13:43 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:13:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4d76aa19.0d44970a.0fdc.ffffb9e5@mx.google.com> Shamil, I have done some renaming, but it seems to be a waste of time if "it works" without too many issues. Thanks, JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Hi Jim -- Just put that fields' and tables' names into square brackets wherever you'll be referencing them. But if you have time and there are not that much places to rename that fields and tables - do renaming. The issues when that fields' and tables' names are not put into square brackets could be (query) compilation errors as well as "strange behavior" of MS Access including GPF-ing... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 8 ????? 2011 ?. 22:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 8 16:41:35 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 01:41:35 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d76aa19.0d44970a.0fdc.ffffb9e5@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> <4d76aa19.0d44970a.0fdc.ffffb9e5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <928F9161DE3046D79BE2EDB1EBC6B590@nant> Jim -- Yes, it will work - just when you'll find some "strange" MS Access behaviour - first of all check for reserved words used which are not put into square brackets. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 9 ????? 2011 ?. 1:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Shamil, I have done some renaming, but it seems to be a waste of time if "it works" without too many issues. Thanks, JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Hi Jim -- Just put that fields' and tables' names into square brackets wherever you'll be referencing them. But if you have time and there are not that much places to rename that fields and tables - do renaming. The issues when that fields' and tables' names are not put into square brackets could be (query) compilation errors as well as "strange behavior" of MS Access including GPF-ing... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 8 ????? 2011 ?. 22:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue Mar 8 17:29:39 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 00:29:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you can give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the table. If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view then the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit privileges on the table itself. That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all objects in the database. Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting from one table. The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the role at the table level. The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. Any ideas? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Tue Mar 8 12:59:17 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 10:59:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Nested Sub Querys In-Reply-To: <4D767925.6010904@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D767925.6010904@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D767C85.60208@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John No I am talking about nested subquerys where You can do the original query on a join for example and do your calculations Then drill down with other subsequent subquerys to produce your final results Pretty cool. jwcolby wrote: > Are you talking about > > WHERE PK in (SELECT PK FROM SomeOtherSet) > > kind of thing? I am using that a ton in SQL Server. It turns > non-updateable queries (joined to something else) into updateable > queries. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/8/2011 11:09 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > >> Hey All >> As Dan said OMG how much don't I know. >> When fooling around with SQL Server I found you could next multiple >> subquerys in the pass- through >> SQL string. I tried the same logic with Access and sure enough it >> works. And "Duh" did some research >> and it has been there all along. Sure speeds things up when you are >> dealing with very large tables >> of data. > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 17:45:04 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 15:45:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They got it going using CREATE VIEW vwViewName WITH VIEW_METADATA AS ... On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > David, > Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". > If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you can > give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the table. > If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view then > the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit privileges > on the table itself. > That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all > objects in the database. > Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql > Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: > EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view > > I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. > > In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting > from one table. > > The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the > role at the table level. > > The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? > > I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. > > > Any ideas? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 8 18:24:47 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 11:24:47 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Total Access Analyzer ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Are you talking about the entire suite or just the Total Access Analyzer? JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue Mar 8 18:34:25 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 01:34:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A6C4C87443F43DB90C674BE625E64CA@abpc> Fine. Haven't used this option so far - interesting, will remember it for future cases. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 9. marts 2011 00:45 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Can't update view They got it going using CREATE VIEW vwViewName WITH VIEW_METADATA AS ... On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > David, > Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". > If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you can > give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the table. > If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view then > the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit privileges > on the table itself. > That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all > objects in the database. > Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql > Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: > EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view > > I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. > > In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting > from one table. > > The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the > role at the table level. > > The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? > > I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. > > > Any ideas? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 18:51:34 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:51:34 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: <4A6C4C87443F43DB90C674BE625E64CA@abpc> References: <4A6C4C87443F43DB90C674BE625E64CA@abpc> Message-ID: It had me confused too. The other developer tends to not use PKs (or uses a lot of multi-natural key indexes) so I figured that's what it was. I was too swamped today to give it any more time than I did. He had the view bound form working by giving rights to the table, so it wasn't like he was down. I let him borrow my Susan & Martin book (as I like to call it) and showed him the part in the book for possible reasons. D On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > Fine. Haven't used this option so far - interesting, will remember it for > future cases. > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > Sendt: 9. marts 2011 00:45 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: Re: [AccessD] Can't update view > > They got it going using > > CREATE VIEW vwViewName WITH VIEW_METADATA AS ... > > > > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > > > David, > > Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". > > If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you > can > > give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the > table. > > If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view > then > > the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit > privileges > > on the table itself. > > That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all > > objects in the database. > > Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql > > Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: > > EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' > > > > Asger > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > > Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 > > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view > > > > I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. > > > > In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting > > from one table. > > > > The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the > > role at the table level. > > > > The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? > > > > I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into > this. > > > > > > Any ideas? > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Mar 8 19:24:04 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:24:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <001501cbddf8$ade44fc0$09acef40$@net> Based on the size of the system and the detailed level (3000+ suggestions !) of feedback provided, I'd say this was a good product without even having used it directly. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > ________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________ > ________________ > > > > Jim, > > I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It > looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that > maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can > do. Or it may not be... > > be interested to know more for a real user. > > cheers > darryl. From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 14:02:37 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:02:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 9 14:22:42 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 15:22:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> Jim, <> Couple of comments: 1. Domain functions are often slower, but not always. There was a very old Smart Access article with timings that showed in some cases that domain function could be faster then other methods. If in doubt, test. 2. There are custom procedures out on the net to replace the domain functions, which give more flexibility and typically the same speed. 3. Domain functions should never be used inside of a SQL statement (query). Reason being is that they cannot be optimized by the query parser. Your better off with a sub select (and after all, all a Domain function really is is an encapsulated SQL statement). Even better yet, use another query as a base "table" in your query and do a join on it. 4. Use them like they were intended to be used; places where a VBA expression is allowed but a SQL statement or recordset is not. Or with Dlookup, which is used to fetch one value; don't use it to fetch five different fields from the same record. Instead, open a recordset, find the record, and have all the fields available. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 03:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Mar 9 14:25:54 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:25:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Tools (was: Access Reserved words) Message-ID: <003501cbde98$37d0d7e0$a77287a0$@comcast.net> I've use the Analyzer many times - and it is good at catching many things. It does take some practice to learn how to go through the list of errors and long lists of suggestions. I also think that it's cost is well worth it - I have avoided problems that customers would have experienced. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 2:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 14:29:09 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:29:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> <796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> Message-ID: <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I'll review where I've used them and make adjustments as needed. Thanks again, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 2:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, <> Couple of comments: 1. Domain functions are often slower, but not always. There was a very old Smart Access article with timings that showed in some cases that domain function could be faster then other methods. If in doubt, test. 2. There are custom procedures out on the net to replace the domain functions, which give more flexibility and typically the same speed. 3. Domain functions should never be used inside of a SQL statement (query). Reason being is that they cannot be optimized by the query parser. Your better off with a sub select (and after all, all a Domain function really is is an encapsulated SQL statement). Even better yet, use another query as a base "table" in your query and do a join on it. 4. Use them like they were intended to be used; places where a VBA expression is allowed but a SQL statement or recordset is not. Or with Dlookup, which is used to fetch one value; don't use it to fetch five different fields from the same record. Instead, open a recordset, find the record, and have all the fields available. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 03:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Wed Mar 9 14:39:29 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:39:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Message-ID: Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Wed Mar 9 14:41:24 2011 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 15:41:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com><796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: If you want to do renaming, Rick Fishers Find and Replace will make it a breeze for ~$30 http://www.rickworld.com/products.html Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I'll review where I've used them and make adjustments as needed. Thanks again, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 2:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, <> Couple of comments: 1. Domain functions are often slower, but not always. There was a very old Smart Access article with timings that showed in some cases that domain function could be faster then other methods. If in doubt, test. 2. There are custom procedures out on the net to replace the domain functions, which give more flexibility and typically the same speed. 3. Domain functions should never be used inside of a SQL statement (query). Reason being is that they cannot be optimized by the query parser. Your better off with a sub select (and after all, all a Domain function really is is an encapsulated SQL statement). Even better yet, use another query as a base "table" in your query and do a join on it. 4. Use them like they were intended to be used; places where a VBA expression is allowed but a SQL statement or recordset is not. Or with Dlookup, which is used to fetch one value; don't use it to fetch five different fields from the same record. Instead, open a recordset, find the record, and have all the fields available. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 03:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael at mattysconsulting.com Wed Mar 9 15:08:53 2011 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 16:08:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Wed Mar 9 15:32:19 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 15:32:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> References: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> Message-ID: Michael, It could be but not sure how to do it. We have reports built to print one job, range of jobs, or all jobs. These reports drag data from multiple sources. We built a query to get the current jobs worked on and do a report in "pdf" and output to a file. Then we go get the next number and do it again. However if we could run the all jobs report and then print each page to a "pdf" to file it should save a lot of time. We are trying to go a little greener by filing on the server and not print to paper each page. This also allows all the engineers we have to go and view any job they want. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael at mattysconsulting.com Wed Mar 9 15:45:19 2011 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 16:45:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: References: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> Message-ID: <44833D0DAA8B44F8A9382DD9A7976043@Gateway> Steve, I think I'd use a recordset to get all relevant JobIDs and loop through them while altering the AllJobs querydef to change the parameter for JobID. Not sure, though, sounds like you have 'mitigating circumstances.' Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 4:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Michael, It could be but not sure how to do it. We have reports built to print one job, range of jobs, or all jobs. These reports drag data from multiple sources. We built a query to get the current jobs worked on and do a report in "pdf" and output to a file. Then we go get the next number and do it again. However if we could run the all jobs report and then print each page to a "pdf" to file it should save a lot of time. We are trying to go a little greener by filing on the server and not print to paper each page. This also allows all the engineers we have to go and view any job they want. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Mar 9 22:46:30 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 23:46:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com><796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000501cbdede$2065a770$6130f650$@net> I concur...I bot it and it's been great. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words > > If you want to do renaming, Rick Fishers Find and Replace will make it > a > breeze for ~$30 > http://www.rickworld.com/products.html > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us From sturner at mseco.com Thu Mar 10 09:12:49 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 09:12:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: <44833D0DAA8B44F8A9382DD9A7976043@Gateway> References: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> <44833D0DAA8B44F8A9382DD9A7976043@Gateway> Message-ID: Michael, Thanks for the help. I didn't write the code but my boss did. However after thinking about it and how many records it was accessing well over 600.000 and the query output around 800, I figured that it would be a lot faster to write the all report data to a table and have his save code access that data to write to a file. Accessing the small file seems instantaneous to get a report. This should dramatically speed up the process. First time he ran his code it took over an hour and a half to process the way he was doing it. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Steve, I think I'd use a recordset to get all relevant JobIDs and loop through them while altering the AllJobs querydef to change the parameter for JobID. Not sure, though, sounds like you have 'mitigating circumstances.' Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 4:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Michael, It could be but not sure how to do it. We have reports built to print one job, range of jobs, or all jobs. These reports drag data from multiple sources. We built a query to get the current jobs worked on and do a report in "pdf" and output to a file. Then we go get the next number and do it again. However if we could run the all jobs report and then print each page to a "pdf" to file it should save a lot of time. We are trying to go a little greener by filing on the server and not print to paper each page. This also allows all the engineers we have to go and view any job they want. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 10 10:29:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 11:29:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database Message-ID: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two projects. I want to leave the existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved out, debugged and running and in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along the baggage of the old revisions into the new database. How do I go about this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jedi at charm.net Thu Mar 10 11:49:52 2011 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 12:49:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database In-Reply-To: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> How about GET what you need and create a new project. Mike > I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two > projects. I want to leave the > existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved out, > debugged and running and > in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along the > baggage of the old > revisions into the new database. > > How do I go about this? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 10 12:20:08 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:20:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database In-Reply-To: <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4D791658.90109@colbyconsulting.com> > How about GET what you need and create a new project. Uhhh... (scratches head???) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/10/2011 12:49 PM, Michael Bahr wrote: > How about GET what you need and create a new project. > > Mike > >> I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two >> projects. I want to leave the >> existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved out, >> debugged and running and >> in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along the >> baggage of the old >> revisions into the new database. >> >> How do I go about this? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Mar 10 15:20:29 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:20:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From cjlabs at att.net Thu Mar 10 15:29:38 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:29:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and 2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time to find out what is different. These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" "mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work as they should in 2007. Carolyn Johnson St Louis, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Thu Mar 10 15:38:03 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:38:03 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> Message-ID: <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 10 15:41:27 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:41:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: I would like to be able to obtain the names on all TABs on a Form so that I can work with these names in VBA (Access 2007). Thanks for your help, Brad From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 10 15:54:29 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:54:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machine and access 2010 Message-ID: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 10 16:00:05 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:00:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: Tab controls have a Pages property, one Page per tab. so you can find out how many tabs with MsgBox "Number of pages in TabCtl1:" & TabCtl1.Pages.Count And you can access the actual tab with TabCtl11.Pages(n) Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? I would like to be able to obtain the names on all TABs on a Form so that I can work with these names in VBA (Access 2007). Thanks for your help, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Thu Mar 10 16:40:34 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 16:40:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property On Error Resume Next CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue If Err.Number = 3270 Then Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp End If End Sub I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather than boolean values. Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do list. Guess I'll cross it off! Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 10 16:58:07 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 01:58:07 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> Message-ID: <3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 10 17:04:09 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:04:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? Thanks! References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: Lambert, Thanks for the help, I appreciate it. I have things working now with your assistance. Thanks again, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? Tab controls have a Pages property, one Page per tab. so you can find out how many tabs with MsgBox "Number of pages in TabCtl1:" & TabCtl1.Pages.Count And you can access the actual tab with TabCtl11.Pages(n) Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? I would like to be able to obtain the names on all TABs on a Form so that I can work with these names in VBA (Access 2007). Thanks for your help, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 10 17:29:26 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:29:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> <3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> Message-ID: <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 10 17:46:49 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:46:49 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Message-ID: <4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I use a more generic Function where you pass the property type as well: SetProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Public Function SetProperty(strPropName As String, _ varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_SetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_SetProperty: Exit Function Err_SetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else SetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_SetProperty End If End Function On 10 Mar 2011 at 16:40, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As > Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property > > On Error Resume Next > > CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue > If Err.Number = 3270 Then > Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) > CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp > End If > > End Sub > > > I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather > than boolean values. > > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 10 17:51:52 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 02:51:52 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net><3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> Hello Doug -- Is your source development PC 32 bit? I didn't try to solve the issue in details but for 64bit PC I do strictly setup custom .NET apps into C:\MyPrograms folder (you can call the target custom folder differently of course). Also for .NET code, which uses MS Access databases and compiled on 32bit systems and then setup and used on 64bit systems there should be the following command line applied: CorFlags.exe /32BIT+ MyDotNetUtils.dll CorFlags.exe can be found in WIndows 7 SDK AFAIKR. Be careful with applying corflags.exe for signed assemblies - I do use unsigned assemblies to simplify corflags.exe application to my custom .net apps and DLLs. <<< I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? >>> Not sure what you're asking here or I'd better write not sure if I'm answering your question: - my sample was a part/command line of .bat file I used - so it was fullpath or full command line not shortcut. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. CorFlags.exe /? Microsoft (R) .NET Framework CorFlags Conversion Tool. Version 3.5.30729.1 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Usage: Corflags.exe Assembly [options] If no options are specified, the flags for the given image are displayed. Options: /ILONLY+ /ILONLY- Sets/clears the ILONLY flag /32BIT+ /32BIT- Sets/clears the 32BIT flag /UpgradeCLRHeader Upgrade the CLR Header to version 2.5 /RevertCLRHeader Revert the CLR Header to version 2.0 /Force Force an assembly update even if the image is strong name signed. WARNING: Updating a strong name signed assembly will require the assembly to be resigned before it will execute properly. /nologo Prevents corflags from displaying logo /? or /help Display this usage message -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 2:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From member at linkedin.com Thu Mar 10 18:33:00 2011 From: member at linkedin.com (Janet Erbach via LinkedIn) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 00:33:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AccessD] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <388117698.4424825.1299803580238.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed40.prod> LinkedIn ------------Janet Erbach requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Doris, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Janet Accept invitation from Janet Erbach http://www.linkedin.com/e/s2e3k1-gl4dhpai-2e/GJGqr_Xcuww-eupoeCwqfm8l9PqY0AZwZCdqO6vpjBw/blk/I2680468753_2/1BpC5vrmRLoRZcjkkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYOnPcRdPwSd30Udz99bP5CqCB4q4hJbPoPdjARd3cUd38LrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ View invitation from Janet Erbach http://www.linkedin.com/e/s2e3k1-gl4dhpai-2e/GJGqr_Xcuww-eupoeCwqfm8l9PqY0AZwZCdqO6vpjBw/blk/I2680468753_2/39vcPkTe3oQc3wScAALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ ------------------------------------------ DID YOU KNOW you can showcase your professional knowledge on LinkedIn to receive job/consulting offers and enhance your professional reputation? Posting replies to questions on LinkedIn Answers puts you in front of the world's professional community. http://www.linkedin.com/e/s2e3k1-gl4dhpai-2e/abq/inv-24/ -- (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 11 08:26:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:26:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SVN - removing all version control for a directory and all files underneath Message-ID: <4D7A30FE.8050500@colbyconsulting.com> I am trying to copy a solution to a new location, strip all version control from it, delete a ton of projects within that solution and then version control the new solution. I copied the entire solution from my laptop to a VM and under my user / projects there. The copy still appears to be under version control. I looked in help and it says to copy the directory to itself using the vsn right click menu. I did that and it removed the vsn green checkmark from the top level directory (the solution) but left the check mark on all of the subdirectories (projects and stuff). Does anyone have a clue how to completely and entirely remove a directory from version control - remove all green check marks from every subdirectory etc.? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 11 08:59:23 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:59:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-SQLServer] SVN - removing all version control for a directory and all files underneath In-Reply-To: <4D7A30FE.8050500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7A30FE.8050500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7A38CB.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> As it turns out, doing the "export to same directory" seems to actually "unregister" the directory from source control. It leaves the green check marks in explorer - not sure what that means. However if I go into the solution itself, it no longer has the version control dots next to the items in the solution explorer. So it appears to have removed that local copy of the solution from source control. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/11/2011 9:26 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I am trying to copy a solution to a new location, strip all version control from it, delete a ton of > projects within that solution and then version control the new solution. > > I copied the entire solution from my laptop to a VM and under my user / projects there. The copy > still appears to be under version control. I looked in help and it says to copy the directory to > itself using the vsn right click menu. I did that and it removed the vsn green checkmark from the > top level directory (the solution) but left the check mark on all of the subdirectories (projects > and stuff). > > Does anyone have a clue how to completely and entirely remove a directory from version control - > remove all green check marks from every subdirectory etc.? From jedi at charm.net Fri Mar 11 11:44:39 2011 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:44:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database In-Reply-To: <4D791658.90109@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4D791658.90109@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3875.24.35.23.165.1299865479.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> GET is the common action term in SCM (Software Configuration Management) land to "copy" the files from the repository onto your computer. Then create a new project and add those files to the project. Mike > > How about GET what you need and create a new project. > > Uhhh... (scratches head???) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/10/2011 12:49 PM, Michael Bahr wrote: >> How about GET what you need and create a new project. >> >> Mike >> >>> I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two >>> projects. I want to leave the >>> existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved >>> out, >>> debugged and running and >>> in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along >>> the >>> baggage of the old >>> revisions into the new database. >>> >>> How do I go about this? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Sun Mar 13 10:20:31 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 07:20:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box Message-ID: <4D7CE0BF.7020105@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All I have a test form with 2 list boxes, select an item in ListBox1 and it requerys ListBox2 and displays the results. No linked tables, not working with SQL Server, and no network connection. ListBox2 rowsource is a Query with where matrix=FndMyMatrix() Requery in ListBox1 AfterUpdate. Now most of the time if I arrow up and down in the ListBox1, ListBox2 is requeryed and quickly displays the result. But sometimes when I open the form and Arrow down to Item 2 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 3 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 4 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow up Item 4 to Item 1 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down Item 1 to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down to Item 6 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery Arrow down to Item 7 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery And so on. ListBox1 displays 20 items at a time. Sometimes I can quickly arrow down to the 20th item, but when I arrow down to Item 21, ListBox2 is slow to requery and so on. This action is erractic, 99.9% of the time I have no problem opening the form and quickly arrowing up and down ListBox1, then out blue the above activity occurs. Because it is erratic it is making it kind of hard to trap for. Anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing this? Please don't tell me to tell my client not to use the arrow keys. I have decompiled and copied the mdb. Thanks From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 13 11:03:20 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:03:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box Message-ID: <20110313090320.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.88fe5eef65.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> WAG - try the scroll trick: In the open event of the form dim x as Variant x=Me.Listbox1.ListCount May not make a difference but it's a 30 second test. And how about requerying listbox 2 after the user makes a choice ? Is making Listbox1 a combo box with an after update event where you could put the listbox 2 requery an option? Rocky -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box From: Tony Septav Date: Sun, March 13, 2011 8:20 am To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Hey All I have a test form with 2 list boxes, select an item in ListBox1 and it requerys ListBox2 and displays the results. No linked tables, not working with SQL Server, and no network connection. ListBox2 rowsource is a Query with where matrix=FndMyMatrix() Requery in ListBox1 AfterUpdate. Now most of the time if I arrow up and down in the ListBox1, ListBox2 is requeryed and quickly displays the result. But sometimes when I open the form and Arrow down to Item 2 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 3 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 4 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow up Item 4 to Item 1 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down Item 1 to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down to Item 6 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery Arrow down to Item 7 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery And so on. ListBox1 displays 20 items at a time. Sometimes I can quickly arrow down to the 20th item, but when I arrow down to Item 21, ListBox2 is slow to requery and so on. This action is erractic, 99.9% of the time I have no problem opening the form and quickly arrowing up and down ListBox1, then out blue the above activity occurs. Because it is erratic it is making it kind of hard to trap for. Anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing this? Please don't tell me to tell my client not to use the arrow keys. I have decompiled and copied the mdb. Thanks -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Sun Mar 13 12:25:05 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:25:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box In-Reply-To: <20110313090320.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.88fe5eef65.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20110313090320.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.88fe5eef65.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <4D7CFDF1.1030501@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey Rocky Thanks Next time this weird thing occurs I will try the ListCount, may just do the job. Basically the ListBox2 is requeryed on AfterUpdate of ListBox1. It is just that because this weird thing happens out of the blue, that it has me baffled as to why/what causes it??? rockysmolin at bchacc.com wrote: >WAG - try the scroll trick: > >In the open event of the form > >dim x as Variant >x=Me.Listbox1.ListCount > >May not make a difference but it's a 30 second test. > >And how about requerying listbox 2 after the user makes a choice ? Is >making Listbox1 a combo box with an after update event where you could >put the listbox 2 requery an option? > > >Rocky > >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box >From: Tony Septav >Date: Sun, March 13, 2011 8:20 am >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >Hey All >I have a test form with 2 list boxes, select an item in ListBox1 and it >requerys ListBox2 and displays the results. > >No linked tables, not working with SQL Server, and no network >connection. > >ListBox2 rowsource is a Query with where matrix=FndMyMatrix() >Requery in ListBox1 AfterUpdate. > >Now most of the time if I arrow up and down in the ListBox1, ListBox2 >is requeryed and quickly displays the result. But sometimes when I open >the form and >Arrow down to Item 2 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow down to Item 3 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow down to Item 4 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow down to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow up Item 4 to Item 1 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. >Arrow down Item 1 to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. >Arrow down to Item 6 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery >Arrow down to Item 7 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery >And so on. > >ListBox1 displays 20 items at a time. >Sometimes I can quickly arrow down to the 20th item, but when I arrow >down to Item 21, ListBox2 is slow to requery and so on. > >This action is erractic, 99.9% of the time I have no problem opening >the form and quickly arrowing up and down ListBox1, then out blue the >above activity occurs. Because it is erratic it is making it kind of >hard to trap for. Anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing >this? Please don't tell me to tell my client not to use the arrow keys. > >I have decompiled and copied the mdb. > >Thanks > > > From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun Mar 13 15:22:36 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 13:22:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net><3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> <0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> Message-ID: <000001cbe1bc$64b277b0$2e176710$@cox.net> Hello Shamil, Using the correct version of regasm did the trick. Thank you for your help. I may need to look at CorFlags if we ever move this to a 64 bit machine. Nice to know it is available. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Doug -- Is your source development PC 32 bit? I didn't try to solve the issue in details but for 64bit PC I do strictly setup custom .NET apps into C:\MyPrograms folder (you can call the target custom folder differently of course). Also for .NET code, which uses MS Access databases and compiled on 32bit systems and then setup and used on 64bit systems there should be the following command line applied: CorFlags.exe /32BIT+ MyDotNetUtils.dll CorFlags.exe can be found in WIndows 7 SDK AFAIKR. Be careful with applying corflags.exe for signed assemblies - I do use unsigned assemblies to simplify corflags.exe application to my custom .net apps and DLLs. <<< I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? >>> Not sure what you're asking here or I'd better write not sure if I'm answering your question: - my sample was a part/command line of .bat file I used - so it was fullpath or full command line not shortcut. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. CorFlags.exe /? Microsoft (R) .NET Framework CorFlags Conversion Tool. Version 3.5.30729.1 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Usage: Corflags.exe Assembly [options] If no options are specified, the flags for the given image are displayed. Options: /ILONLY+ /ILONLY- Sets/clears the ILONLY flag /32BIT+ /32BIT- Sets/clears the 32BIT flag /UpgradeCLRHeader Upgrade the CLR Header to version 2.5 /RevertCLRHeader Revert the CLR Header to version 2.0 /Force Force an assembly update even if the image is strong name signed. WARNING: Updating a strong name signed assembly will require the assembly to be resigned before it will execute properly. /nologo Prevents corflags from displaying logo /? or /help Display this usage message -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 2:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sun Mar 13 15:43:01 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 23:43:01 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll ona windows7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <000001cbe1bc$64b277b0$2e176710$@cox.net> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net><3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net><0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> <000001cbe1bc$64b277b0$2e176710$@cox.net> Message-ID: <9C53771FC0064F54B25FE225D9279938@nant> Hello Doug -- Good to know it worked there finally. Yes, Corflags helps me to develop .NET applications/web services on 32-bit system and to deliver that apps for a customer who has 64bit system... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 13 ????? 2011 ?. 23:23 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll ona windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Using the correct version of regasm did the trick. Thank you for your help. I may need to look at CorFlags if we ever move this to a 64 bit machine. Nice to know it is available. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Doug -- Is your source development PC 32 bit? I didn't try to solve the issue in details but for 64bit PC I do strictly setup custom .NET apps into C:\MyPrograms folder (you can call the target custom folder differently of course). Also for .NET code, which uses MS Access databases and compiled on 32bit systems and then setup and used on 64bit systems there should be the following command line applied: CorFlags.exe /32BIT+ MyDotNetUtils.dll CorFlags.exe can be found in WIndows 7 SDK AFAIKR. Be careful with applying corflags.exe for signed assemblies - I do use unsigned assemblies to simplify corflags.exe application to my custom .net apps and DLLs. <<< I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? >>> Not sure what you're asking here or I'd better write not sure if I'm answering your question: - my sample was a part/command line of .bat file I used - so it was fullpath or full command line not shortcut. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. CorFlags.exe /? Microsoft (R) .NET Framework CorFlags Conversion Tool. Version 3.5.30729.1 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Usage: Corflags.exe Assembly [options] If no options are specified, the flags for the given image are displayed. Options: /ILONLY+ /ILONLY- Sets/clears the ILONLY flag /32BIT+ /32BIT- Sets/clears the 32BIT flag /UpgradeCLRHeader Upgrade the CLR Header to version 2.5 /RevertCLRHeader Revert the CLR Header to version 2.0 /Force Force an assembly update even if the image is strong name signed. WARNING: Updating a strong name signed assembly will require the assembly to be resigned before it will execute properly. /nologo Prevents corflags from displaying logo /? or /help Display this usage message -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 2:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun Mar 13 16:33:58 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 14:33:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Message-ID: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Mar 13 16:41:58 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 16:41:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> References: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> Message-ID: <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun Mar 13 16:46:44 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 14:46:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> References: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000a01cbe1c8$2563aff0$702b0fd0$@cox.net> Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 13 21:58:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 22:58:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) Message-ID: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install it. I had a Windows 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I installed the runtime. I got the directory path declared a safe location and voila, the application ran. Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a friend's (rather old) XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine which it appears that I wiped and installed XP on some time ago. I installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then installed the runtime there and tried to run. No go. Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I built a little test version with just a single table and an autoform which automatically opened when the app opened. It actually reported that it couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). So I started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by SQL Server as it installs. However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out there for download. I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and ran a network cable so it is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to my network via my wireless and it runs. So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which makes sense since this is SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL driver to be part of the Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow me to hook up to the sql server instance. So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the sqlncli.msi installer installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, hitting the sql server over the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). And it works on this machine of mine. Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine (also running XP but on 512 megs of ram) and ensure that will run. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun Mar 13 22:21:52 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:21:52 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) In-Reply-To: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <021101cbe1f6$f7f23080$e7d69180$@activebilling.com.au> Hi John I'd be interested to know performance/speeds etc Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 14 March 2011 1:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install it. I had a Windows 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I installed the runtime. I got the directory path declared a safe location and voila, the application ran. Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a friend's (rather old) XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine which it appears that I wiped and installed XP on some time ago. I installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then installed the runtime there and tried to run. No go. Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I built a little test version with just a single table and an autoform which automatically opened when the app opened. It actually reported that it couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). So I started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by SQL Server as it installs. However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out there for download. I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and ran a network cable so it is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to my network via my wireless and it runs. So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which makes sense since this is SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL driver to be part of the Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow me to hook up to the sql server instance. So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the sqlncli.msi installer installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, hitting the sql server over the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). And it works on this machine of mine. Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine (also running XP but on 512 megs of ram) and ensure that will run. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 13 22:27:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 23:27:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) In-Reply-To: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7D8B31.4080405@colbyconsulting.com> And it runs on the friend's old machine as well. It feels like I might be working now. I have to say this has been one of the most complex jobs I have taken on, with Hamachi VPN networks, a virtual machine running the sql server database, and then the client machine running Hamachi and an Access 2007 runtime. Safe zones, sql server drivers not installed. It has been a challenge getting this running. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/13/2011 10:58 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install it. I had a Windows > 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I installed the runtime. I > got the directory path declared a safe location and voila, the application ran. > > Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a friend's (rather old) > XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine which it appears that I wiped and installed XP > on some time ago. I installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then installed the > runtime there and tried to run. No go. > > Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I built a little test version > with just a single table and an autoform which automatically opened when the app opened. It actually > reported that it couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). So I > started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by SQL Server as it installs. > However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out there for download. > > I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and ran a network cable so it > is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to > my network via my wireless and it runs. > > So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which makes sense since this is > SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL > driver to be part of the Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. > > It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow me to hook up to the sql > server instance. > > So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the sqlncli.msi installer > installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, > hitting the sql server over the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). > > And it works on this machine of mine. > > Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine (also running XP but on 512 > megs of ram) and ensure that will run. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 07:48:12 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 08:48:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Simultaneous edits to ADO Message-ID: <4D7E0E8C.5080006@colbyconsulting.com> We have discussed questions regarding what happens when a form is bound to sql server via ado and two people edit the same record. I tested that this morning. 1) The edit symbol is only sporadically supported. Sometimes the symbol appears, sometimes not. I haven't discovered a pattern yet. 2) if two people try to edit the same record, the first to save does so with no error message, each additional save gets the "the record has changed" message and is offered the ability to save to a text file or the paste buffer. The button to overwrite is grayed out. 3) The second person to save gets the message even if they are not editing the same field. IOW it is detected at the record level. My guess is that this is the same behavior that you would get unbound using ADO. IOW it is up to you to trap the error and do something with it. since I use a framework I will be adding code to trap this error and attempt to discover if the second user is editing a different field. If so I may just save the edit with or without warning. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 07:53:57 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 08:53:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) In-Reply-To: <021101cbe1f6$f7f23080$e7d69180$@activebilling.com.au> References: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> <021101cbe1f6$f7f23080$e7d69180$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4D7E0FE5.6070808@colbyconsulting.com> I'm not sure how to test this in a meaningful way. I will be doing an install of this application on a system with varying connect speed. It is a PC running on a cellular link pretty far from a cell tower. It is roughly DSL speed at its best, but much less at its worst. I will post results from that system. I think I will have the framework log the time to open forms so that i can get a feel for the user experience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/13/2011 11:21 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi John > > I'd be interested to know performance/speeds etc > > Darren > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, 14 March 2011 1:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) > > I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install > it. I had a Windows > 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I > installed the runtime. I got the directory path declared a safe location > and voila, the application ran. > > Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a > friend's (rather old) XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine > which it appears that I wiped and installed XP on some time ago. I > installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then > installed the runtime there and tried to run. No go. > > Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I > built a little test version with just a single table and an autoform which > automatically opened when the app opened. It actually reported that it > couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). > So I started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by > SQL Server as it installs. However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out > there for download. > > I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and > ran a network cable so it is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I > then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to my network via my > wireless and it runs. > > So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which > makes sense since this is SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting > to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL driver to be part of the > Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. > > It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow > me to hook up to the sql server instance. > > So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the > sqlncli.msi installer installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the > Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, hitting the sql server over > the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). > > And it works on this machine of mine. > > Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine > (also running XP but on 512 megs of ram) and ensure that will run. > > From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Mar 14 13:05:49 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 13:05:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709091@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I know I should know this but cannot seem to recall it now. How do I put the two parts together? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property On Error Resume Next CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue If Err.Number = 3270 Then Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp End If End Sub I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather than boolean values. Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do list. Guess I'll cross it off! Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon Mar 14 13:10:54 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 13:10:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709091@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: I have a module with the 2 subs -- SetAppProperties and ChangeAppProperties. When my start up form opens, it calls SetAppProperties which uses ChangeAppProperties to set them the way I want (original post), which includes showing my own menu bars. Because some properties have boolean values and some have text values, you need to treat them differently. Stuart posted a sub that handles both. HTH, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I know I should know this but cannot seem to recall it now. How do I put the two parts together? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property On Error Resume Next CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue If Err.Number = 3270 Then Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp End If End Sub I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather than boolean values. Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do list. Guess I'll cross it off! Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 13:55:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:55:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox Message-ID: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Try this: Open firefox twice. Load different things in each. Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the other copy of firefox. Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance to the second instance. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon Mar 14 14:05:10 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:05:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Just like Google Chrome does. When did Mozilla catch up with Google? :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox Try this: Open firefox twice. Load different things in each. Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the other copy of firefox. Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance to the second instance. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 14:11:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 12:11:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: FireFox has done that for as long as I can remember. On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Heenan, Lambert < Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com> wrote: > Just like Google Chrome does. When did Mozilla catch up with Google? :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:56 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox > > Try this: > > Open firefox twice. > Load different things in each. > Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the > other copy of firefox. > Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second > copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance > to the second instance. > -- > John W. Colby > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 15:01:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:01:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7E7403.5010402@colbyconsulting.com> It never occurred to me to try it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/14/2011 3:11 PM, David McAfee wrote: > FireFox has done that for as long as I can remember. > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Heenan, Lambert< > Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com> wrote: > >> Just like Google Chrome does. When did Mozilla catch up with Google? :-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:56 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox >> >> Try this: >> >> Open firefox twice. >> Load different things in each. >> Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the >> other copy of firefox. >> Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second >> copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance >> to the second instance. >> -- >> John W. Colby >> From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Mon Mar 14 15:06:35 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 09:06:35 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: <4D7E7403.5010402@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7E7403.5010402@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9EF0178EA5594A1AA0084AEA2FE886B9@stevelaptop> ... until now. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:01 AM > It never occurred to me to try it. From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Mar 14 15:26:52 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:26:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709116@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I tried your code with the following settings and still see the ribbon and no custom toolbars. I have no custom menus. Am I missing some settings? Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) SetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "SACROC Surveillance" 'SetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "" SetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\OilBarrel24.ico" End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 5:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I use a more generic Function where you pass the property type as well: SetProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Public Function SetProperty(strPropName As String, _ varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_SetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_SetProperty: Exit Function Err_SetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else SetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_SetProperty End If End Function On 10 Mar 2011 at 16:40, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As > Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property > > On Error Resume Next > > CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue > If Err.Number = 3270 Then > Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) > CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp > End If > > End Sub > > > I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather > than boolean values. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon Mar 14 15:29:24 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:29:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell><4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709116@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: Try adding a default menu bar (eg File - Exit). Maybe that's the key. It would have your menu bar instead of the ribbon. I have custom menu bars and toolbars, and they both show with no ribbon. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I tried your code with the following settings and still see the ribbon and no custom toolbars. I have no custom menus. Am I missing some settings? Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) SetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "SACROC Surveillance" 'SetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "" SetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\OilBarrel24.ico" End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 5:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I use a more generic Function where you pass the property type as well: SetProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Public Function SetProperty(strPropName As String, _ varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_SetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_SetProperty: Exit Function Err_SetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else SetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_SetProperty End If End Function On 10 Mar 2011 at 16:40, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As > Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property > > On Error Resume Next > > CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue > If Err.Number = 3270 Then > Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) > CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp > End If > > End Sub > > > I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather > than boolean values. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Mar 14 18:30:17 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:30:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <000a01cbe1c8$2563aff0$702b0fd0$@cox.net> References: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> <000a01cbe1c8$2563aff0$702b0fd0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <000301cbe29f$c9900f10$5cb02d30$@cox.net> All, I am wondering if this is an Access 2010 to SQL Server 2008 thing. I have a test computer set up with Windows XP, Access 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005. The upsizing wizard works as advertised. When I try to upsize the test backend on my development computer Win 7/64, Access/32, and SQL Server 2008 R2 I get an message stating that "C:\Users\'\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Access\ACWZUSR12.ACCDU" isn't found or spelled correctly, but it is there, and the table list is empty in the wizard. I reinstalled the named file and it still I still get the message. The named file is the Access Wizard Add-in. It will open. I also tried this on a laptop with Win 7/32 with office 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005 and that worked. Seems to be something with SQL Server 2008 or the 64 bit version of Windows. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried the upsizing wizard in Access 2010 with SQL Server 2008? Not much in Google help for this one. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 15 02:41:08 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 07:41:08 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9661D@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Doug I will try it today if I get time later Martin Sent from my Windows Phone -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: 14 March 2011 23:35 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment All, I am wondering if this is an Access 2010 to SQL Server 2008 thing. I have a test computer set up with Windows XP, Access 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005. The upsizing wizard works as advertised. When I try to upsize the test backend on my development computer Win 7/64, Access/32, and SQL Server 2008 R2 I get an message stating that "C:\Users\'\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Access\ACWZUSR12.ACCDU" isn't found or spelled correctly, but it is there, and the table list is empty in the wizard. I reinstalled the named file and it still I still get the message. The named file is the Access Wizard Add-in. It will open. I also tried this on a laptop with Win 7/32 with office 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005 and that worked. Seems to be something with SQL Server 2008 or the 64 bit version of Windows. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried the upsizing wizard in Access 2010 with SQL Server 2008? Not much in Google help for this one. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue Mar 15 10:23:01 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 08:23:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9661D@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9661D@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <003c01cbe324$df2c95c0$9d85c140$@cox.net> Thank you Martin. That will be appreciated. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 12:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Doug I will try it today if I get time later Martin Sent from my Windows Phone -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: 14 March 2011 23:35 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment All, I am wondering if this is an Access 2010 to SQL Server 2008 thing. I have a test computer set up with Windows XP, Access 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005. The upsizing wizard works as advertised. When I try to upsize the test backend on my development computer Win 7/64, Access/32, and SQL Server 2008 R2 I get an message stating that "C:\Users\'\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Access\ACWZUSR12.ACCDU" isn't found or spelled correctly, but it is there, and the table list is empty in the wizard. I reinstalled the named file and it still I still get the message. The named file is the Access Wizard Add-in. It will open. I also tried this on a laptop with Win 7/32 with office 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005 and that worked. Seems to be something with SQL Server 2008 or the 64 bit version of Windows. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried the upsizing wizard in Access 2010 with SQL Server 2008? Not much in Google help for this one. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 15 15:44:22 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:44:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FYI Message-ID: <17F3E7E903E24B6CA5253BA915AAA070@XPS> FYI, VS 2010 SP1 is available for download and there has been a bunch of stuff released on Office 2010 development: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/gg549099.aspx Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 15 21:26:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 22:26:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime / SQL Server data project Message-ID: <4D801FD8.5020805@colbyconsulting.com> I went to the prison tonight to install the prison ministry database on a system there. Again the install looks like: 1) Install Hamachi and get it talking to the Hamachi server 2) Get Hamachi joined to the network for this specific project 3) Install the SQL Server native (ADO) driver using an MSI install package 4) Copy a directory structure with the database files - an application FE and my framework MDA 5) Run a little application which inserts registry stuff to make that directory a "safe location" 6) Run the application FE. This is moderately complicated by the fact that at this location the internet access is not "always on", but is a cellular (telephone) internet adapter on the end of a USB cable. So the user has to start the wireless adapter and get onto the internet, and then Hamachi has to log into the Hamachi server to get the point-to-point info to connect to my server. So we got the internet up, then I did 1 through 5 above. I have a test application which I try first which does *not* use my framework, but is just a simple form bound to one of the simplest tables on that SQL Server database. The test application opened and displayed the bound form just fine. It took me about 45 minutes to get to this point. When I double clicked on the real application file (mdb) it told me that the file that I just clicked on (the application MDB) could not be found. Say what??? I was a bit flustered by that but I went out to the applications folder and saw that Microsoft office had a folder so I drilled down into that and opened Access and ... it immediately (and without my asking) opened my application mdb that I had just been told couldn't be found. Say what??? So I closed it and went back to the application directory and double clicked the application mdb again and it opened, and continued to open without error after that. I created a shortcut to my MDB app on the desktop and opened it through that. The app is talking to SQL Server on my virtual machine server on my hardware at the office, over the internet - and a somewhat slow connection at that. I think the down link is about 380 kbit or some such. Anyway, I opened forms, entered some test data etc. It is working! It is not spectacularly fast but I have done zero optimizations to it. The main project form with a couple of regular bound subforms takes about 8-10 seconds to open. These same forms just snap open on the wi-fi at the local Arby's. So I will need to make sure that I use JIT subforms, and in the end I will probably have to go rework my framework to allow pulling a single record at a time for the main forms etc. Eventually I will use pass through queries to allow SQL Server to do the filtering and sorting of data. Stuff like that. But it works as is, lets me get something into their hands, and allows me to optimize once I have fleshed out the application itself. So there ya have it. Access runtime, using bound forms, on a too slow internet over an Hamachi software vpn to a virtual machine running Windows 2003 x86 with 4 gigs of memory running SQL Server 2008 Express x86. If that isn't "worst case" I don't know what is, not to mention a whole lot of esoteric technology pulled together to make one tiny little database work. ;) Having done that I have an immediate need for the exact same technology stack for two more projects. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 05:49:29 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 09:12:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:12:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQLOLEDB Message-ID: <4D80C557.1010606@colbyconsulting.com> Can I use an IP address as the data source property for the adodb connection? As I have discussed, I am hitting the SQL database over the internet using Hamachi. this morning I am researching how to bind forms to an ADO recordset. The first thing I have to do is establish a connection to the database as shown below. With cn .Provider = "Microsoft.Access.OLEDB.10.0" .Properties("Data Provider").Value = "SQLOLEDB" '.Properties("Data Source").Value = "5.203.167.79" .Properties("Data Source").Value = "VMDev\SQLExpress" .Properties("Initial Catalog").Value = cfw.mSVAppData("DbName") .Properties("User ID").Value = "XXX" .Properties("Password").Value = "YYY" .Open End With Using the ip address for the Data Source property throws an error on the .Open. Simply changing that to the hard coded database name allows the .Open. I changed to the following and it works! strCnn = "Data Source=" & cfw.mSVAppData("ServerIP") & ",1433;Network Library=DBMSSOCN;Initial Catalog=" & cfw.mSVAppData("DbName") & ";User ID=" & "XXX" & ";Password=" & "YYY" & ";" With cn .ConnectionString = strCnn .Provider = "Microsoft.Access.OLEDB.10.0" .Properties("Data Provider").Value = "SQLOLEDB" .Open End With End If I then used this to open a recordset as follows: Function ADORst(strSQL) As ADODB.Recordset Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo Err_ADORst mCnnInit 'Create an instance of the ADO Recordset class, and 'set its properties Set rs = New ADODB.Recordset With rs Set .ActiveConnection = cn .Source = strSQL .LockType = adLockOptimistic .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .Open End With Set ADORst = rs Exit_ADORst: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_ADORst: Select Case Err Case 0 '.insert Errors you wish to ignore here Resume Next Case Else '.All other errors will trap Beep LogErr Err.Number, Err.Description, Erl, cstrModule, "ADORst" Resume Exit_ADORst End Select Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function And then in the form itself (onOpen) I did this: set me.Recordset = ADORST("MySqlStatementHere") and voila, my form is bound to an ADODB recordset. This should make a huge difference to my applications, allowing SQL Server to do the work and just return the data. And *supposedly* in all Access versions above 2000 the form is read/write. Of course I now need to test under runtime. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 12:04:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 13:04:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error Message-ID: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> "Data provider could not be initialized". Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Wed Mar 16 13:04:39 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:04:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not configured properly" http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: Restart IIS Restart computer Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error "Data provider could not be initialized". Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 14:23:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 15:23:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Issues when using ADO Message-ID: <4D810E36.40204@colbyconsulting.com> Interesting set of "gotcha's" http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 14:36:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 15:36:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 2:04 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not configured properly" > > http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: > > Restart IIS > > Restart computer > > Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) > > Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > "Data provider could not be initialized". > > Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 16 15:22:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 13:22:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: It makes me wonder if you will have to go unbound on your series of applications? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 2:04 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not configured properly" > > http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: > > Restart IIS > > Restart computer > > Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) > > Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > "Data provider could not be initialized". > > Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From phpons at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 16:05:48 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 22:05:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to insert a tag into an invoice? Message-ID: Hi all, I have the following situation to deal with at one of my customers. They scan the invoices they receive, and store the file into the file system. When the invoice get paid, they want to insert a tag (kind of validation signature) into the electronic file of the invoice, before saving it into a different directory. How would you the tag insertion? Is it at least possible? Thanks in advance for your input. Philippe From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 16:24:35 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 17:24:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D812A93.7040300@colbyconsulting.com> Well, let me put it this way. Unbound means rewriting my framework. A thousand or so hours. For free projects. Hmm... Seems unlikely. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 4:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > It makes me wonder if you will have to go unbound on your series of > applications? > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:36 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. > > http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO > > It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. > It really appears that > when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are a host of issues with > the RecordsetClone (which > is DAO) and that perhaps recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support > the form. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 2:04 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the > database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the > ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not > configured properly" >> >> http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can > happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components > conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: >> >> Restart IIS >> >> Restart computer >> >> Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) >> >> Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" >> >> Lambert >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error >> >> "Data provider could not be initialized". >> >> Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the > internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From BradM at blackforestltd.com Wed Mar 16 16:27:32 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:27:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that might be useful. We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) in the Runtime environment. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 16:31:32 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:31:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the subform with ADO. Maybe I missed the post where you specified the code that was going sideways. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby wrote: > This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. > > http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO > > It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. > ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are > a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps > recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 16 16:43:53 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 07:43:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How to insert a tag into an invoice? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D812F19.32276.22CE9AD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> EXIF tags? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format You can insert tags from Access by Shelling to the commandline utility ExifUtils http://www.hugsan.com/EXIFutils/ There are lots of EXIF viewers available, incluindg Explorer - just right click on an suitable scanned image and select Properties/Details. You can also edit tags and comments in the same place - just hover over the Value area and you will see a box "Add tags" etc. On 16 Mar 2011 at 22:05, philippe pons wrote: > Hi all, > > > I have the following situation to deal with at one of my customers. > > They scan the invoices they receive, and store the file into the file > system. > > When the invoice get paid, they want to insert a tag (kind of > validation signature) into the electronic file of the invoice, before > saving it into a different directory. > > How would you the tag insertion? Is it at least possible? > > Thanks in advance for your input. > > Philippe > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From phpons at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 17:02:03 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 23:02:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to insert a tag into an invoice? In-Reply-To: <4D812F19.32276.22CE9AD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D812F19.32276.22CE9AD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Thank's Stuart, will test it asap. Philippe 2011/3/16 Stuart McLachlan > EXIF tags? > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format > > You can insert tags from Access by Shelling to the commandline utility > ExifUtils > http://www.hugsan.com/EXIFutils/ > > There are lots of EXIF viewers available, incluindg Explorer - just right > click on an suitable > scanned image and select Properties/Details. You can also edit tags and > comments in the > same place - just hover over the Value area and you will see a box "Add > tags" etc. > > On 16 Mar 2011 at 22:05, philippe pons wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have the following situation to deal with at one of my customers. > > > > They scan the invoices they receive, and store the file into the file > > system. > > > > When the invoice get paid, they want to insert a tag (kind of > > validation signature) into the electronic file of the invoice, before > > saving it into a different directory. > > > > How would you the tag insertion? Is it at least possible? > > > > Thanks in advance for your input. > > > > Philippe > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 17:05:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:05:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> In my framework I do JIT subforms. Part of the JIT subform process is to set the subform binding properties. I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. It appears that it is a known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field properties of a subform bound to ADO. Broken, throws an error, doesn't work, no fix. The work around is to filter the subform to only pull records for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset that the subform is bound to. So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. And in there somewhere I have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the parent fires (new parent PKID). All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to ADO. Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO recordset. I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as the DAO bound form. And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out a way to fix them. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > John, > > I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. > I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the > subform with ADO. Maybe I missed the post where you specified the > code that was going sideways. > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >> >> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >> >> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. >> It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are >> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 16 23:16:40 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 21:16:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? Message-ID: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Dear List: I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., fields into each table. Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 23:30:41 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 00:30:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: Rocky, Just curious, but why 3 tables? jack On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that > will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., > fields into each table. > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an > FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 16 23:29:27 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:29:27 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: <201103170431.p2H4VtxA018770@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ I usually have a seperate table for State and then a table for Postcodes with the state linked as a FK. Then I tie the Postcode table to the address (which has PCode and State together). Regards Darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin [rockysmolin at bchacc.com] Sent: Thursday, 17 March 2011 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? Dear List: I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., fields into each table. Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 16 23:37:47 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 21:37:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their home address - even though in most cases the participant record would also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity would be different. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? Rocky, Just curious, but why 3 tables? jack On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > that will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, > etc., fields into each table. > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 17 06:40:21 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:40:21 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005>, , Message-ID: <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> For ease of maintenance, sInce the address is directly related to the entity, I'd put them in the entity tables. As long as you keep the address fields standard, you can always use a UNION query to get all addresses if you need to combine then, with a flag to identify the type of entity Select "C" Addres,City... from tblCompanies union Select "S" Addres,City... from tblSocieties union Select "P" Addres,City... from tblPeople I also agree with Darryl, I'd try to use some form of Postcode,City, State lookup table and only store an FK to that tree, rathe than full details of the geographical hierarchy -- Stuart On 16 Mar 2011 at 21:37, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one > is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their > home address - even though in most cases the participant record would > also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be > common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity > would be different. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack > drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB > Design Question - too much normalization? > > Rocky, > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > jack > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > > that will have address information. There will probably be no > > overlap. > > > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main > > fax, etc., fields into each table. > > > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 17 07:49:54 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 05:49:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005>, , <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <647831F9F306495CB40C4C7439033978@HAL9005> I have a zip code table - can't remember where I got it - that I use in several apps - the user can enter a zip code and the city and state are retrieved from the zip code table. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? For ease of maintenance, sInce the address is directly related to the entity, I'd put them in the entity tables. As long as you keep the address fields standard, you can always use a UNION query to get all addresses if you need to combine then, with a flag to identify the type of entity Select "C" Addres,City... from tblCompanies union Select "S" Addres,City... from tblSocieties union Select "P" Addres,City... from tblPeople I also agree with Darryl, I'd try to use some form of Postcode,City, State lookup table and only store an FK to that tree, rathe than full details of the geographical hierarchy -- Stuart On 16 Mar 2011 at 21:37, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one > is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their > home address - even though in most cases the participant record would > also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be > common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity > would be different. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack > drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB > Design Question - too much normalization? > > Rocky, > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > jack > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > > that will have address information. There will probably be no > > overlap. > > > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main > > fax, etc., fields into each table. > > > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 07:50:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 08:50:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the application. From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will > apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that > might be useful. > > We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. > > While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user > interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) > in the Runtime environment. > > Brad From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 08:00:04 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:00:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: <7FD40A0658B64E6CA7F3F0DFE19ABD23@SusanHarkins> That was my question -- 3 tables of addresses? A Zip code lookup table can be a cool feature if someone's going to be entering lots of addresses and repeat Zip codes. Susan H. > Rocky, > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > jack > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > >> Dear List: >> >> I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that >> will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. >> >> Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, >> etc., >> fields into each table. >> >> Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and >> an >> FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 08:56:17 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:56:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <7FD40A0658B64E6CA7F3F0DFE19ABD23@SusanHarkins> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> <7FD40A0658B64E6CA7F3F0DFE19ABD23@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I concur with the PostalCode, City, State table set up -- very useful. With respect to the "addresses", will these be shipping address, billing address, physical location address, mailing address, etc... or any combination of same. This could be an issue if these are combined, and you now, or in future need to know which is which. Just a thought... jack On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > That was my question -- 3 tables of addresses? > A Zip code lookup table can be a cool feature if someone's going to be > entering lots of addresses and repeat Zip codes. > > Susan H. > > > > > Rocky, >> Just curious, but why 3 tables? >> jack >> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > >wrote: >> >> Dear List: >>> >>> I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that >>> will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. >>> >>> Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, >>> etc., >>> fields into each table. >>> >>> Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and >>> an >>> FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 17 09:20:17 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:20:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many copies of the Runtime) 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a helping hand to you with Runtime. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the application. From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will > apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that > might be useful. > > We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. > > While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user > interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) > in the Runtime environment. > > Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From Robert at WeBeDb.com Thu Mar 17 10:19:10 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:19:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> John, You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could not do that. You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both all the time through code. I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without the parameters. In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the _1 query. The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need to know any of the SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. Robert At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 > >Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, >modify and use" because you can't >modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am >going to have to become proficient >in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the >thread above which discusses this >for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the >combos and reports. > >This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never >had to use before. Working with >parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area >that I have always wanted to learn. > Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. > >-- >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 10:30:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:30:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D822918.5050508@colbyconsulting.com> Great idea Robert! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 10:31:31 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:31:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. Just be careful with this thinking. If you distribute the MDB it can be moved to any machine which does have the full Access install and can be modified there. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 10:20 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. > > There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. > > 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many copies of the Runtime) > > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. > > If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. > > You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a helping hand to you with Runtime. > > Brad > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby > Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > > That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run > time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to > troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the > application. > > From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it > will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> John, >> >> I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will >> apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that >> might be useful. >> >> We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. >> >> While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user >> interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) >> in the Runtime environment. >> >> Brad From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 17 11:03:05 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:03:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, Good point. I had not thought of that. None of our users have a full version of Access so this is currently not an issue, but things may change down the road. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 10:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. Just be careful with this thinking. If you distribute the MDB it can be moved to any machine which does have the full Access install and can be modified there. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 10:20 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. > > There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. > > 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many copies of the Runtime) > > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. > > If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. > > You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a helping hand to you with Runtime. > > Brad > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby > Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > > That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run > time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to > troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the > application. > > From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it > will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> John, >> >> I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will >> apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that >> might be useful. >> >> We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. >> >> While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user >> interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) >> in the Runtime environment. >> >> Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Mar 17 11:25:56 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:25:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Ribbon Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709591@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have the following set up in the table USysRibbons. I thought it was supposed to hide the ribbon but all it does is remove all the tab names except home. Am I misunderstanding? RibbonName RibbonXML Menu Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 12:31:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:31:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <647831F9F306495CB40C4C7439033978@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <647831F9F306495CB40C4C7439033978@HAL9005> Message-ID: That might have been me, I gave it to several people many years ago. :) I tend to do this: tblAddress --------------- AddrID (PK) LocationName (Main Office...) Addr1 (line 1) Addr2 (line 2) Addr3 (line 3) faddr (Where I store any foreign/unhandled city, St, Zip) ZipID (Int, FK) AddrTypeID (int, FK) AddrNotes CountryID (intFK) entryDate entryUserID tblAddrZipList ------------------ ZipID (Int, PK) ZipCode (I only store the 5 digit zip, if +4 is needed, I'd store it up in tblAddress) City DefaultCity (Boolean) State (probably better idea to store StateID) TerritoryID (if needed, can also place in tblAddress if not Zipcode based) tblAdressType -------------- AddrTypeID (PK) AddrType (BillTo, ShipTo, Both...) tblAddressContactMethod (Junction Table) ------------------------ AddrCtcID (Int PK) ctcMethodID (Int FK) ctcInfo (619-555-1212, SomeGuy at Gmail.com, www.SomeAddress.com) entryDate entryUserID tblContactMethod ------------------------- ctcMethodID (Int PK) ContactMethod (Phone, Fax, Email, Website, Cell#, Some new technology that hasn't been invented yet) DisplayOrder entryDate entryUserID I usually use junction tables between tblCompany and tblAddress as a company can have multiple address and an address can have multiple businesses running out of it. I also keep all companies in one table, whether they are a customer, prospect, vendor, distributor. A simple flag/FKid can tell me what they are. I do the same with contacts and ContactMethod (as above with addresses) . HTH David On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 5:49 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I have a zip code table - can't remember where I got it - that I use in > several apps - the user can enter a zip code and the city and state are > retrieved from the zip code table. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? > > For ease of maintenance, sInce the address is directly related to the > entity, I'd put them in the entity tables. As long as you keep the address > fields standard, you can always use a UNION query to get all addresses if > you need to combine then, with a flag to identify the type of entity > > Select "C" Addres,City... from tblCompanies union Select "S" Addres,City... > from tblSocieties union Select "P" Addres,City... from tblPeople > > I also agree with Darryl, I'd try to use some form of Postcode,City, State > lookup table and only store an FK to that tree, rathe than full details of > the geographical hierarchy > > -- > Stuart > > > On 16 Mar 2011 at 21:37, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one > > is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their > > home address - even though in most cases the participant record would > > also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be > > common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity > > would be different. > > > > Rocky > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack > > drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB > > Design Question - too much normalization? > > > > Rocky, > > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > > jack > > > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > > wrote: > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > > > that will have address information. There will probably be no > > > overlap. > > > > > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main > > > fax, etc., fields into each table. > > > > > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > > > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > > > > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 12:34:16 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:34:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Release it as an ADE/MDE ;) On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 8:31 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA > code, change things, etc. > > > Just be careful with this thinking. If you distribute the MDB it can be > moved to any machine which does have the full Access install and can be > modified there. > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/17/2011 10:20 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > >> John, >> >> We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. >> >> There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. >> >> 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many >> copies of the Runtime) >> >> 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA >> code, change things, etc. >> >> If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. >> >> You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD >> which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a >> helping hand to you with Runtime. >> >> Brad >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby >> Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> >> That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to >> really fess up to using the run >> time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details >> ironed out. Trying to >> troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how >> to get feedback from the >> application. >> >> From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even >> programmatically. If it >> will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> >>> John, >>> >>> I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will >>> apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that >>> might be useful. >>> >>> We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. >>> >>> While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user >>> interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) >>> in the Runtime environment. >>> >>> Brad >>> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 13:12:36 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:12:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. And the master and child links likewise. That's part of the reason why I always used unbound forms/subforms with ADO. I realize your framework is based on bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you might expect, so I didn't go there. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to > set the subform binding properties. > > I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a > known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field > properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't > work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull records > for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset that > the subform is bound to. > > So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search > around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. > > Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form > stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere I > have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the > form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement > (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the parent > fires (new parent PKID). > > All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to ADO. > > Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO > recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the > ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets > the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. > > Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as > the DAO bound form. > > And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out a > way to fix them. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> John, >> >> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >> code that was going sideways. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>> >>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>> >>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>> linking. >>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>> are >>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 13:24:17 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:24:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: I always used a separate "phone table" with a field that described the type, including fax. It was bound to the address table and the person ID to allow for multiple phone numbers. I used a default of zero in the Person ID when the number only applied to an address and was non-specific to a person. Of course, that required a 0 Person ID in the table describing the person, but I always did that anyhow to allow for complex keys and unavailable information. I also had a field in the Address table that described type, so that it could cover a business address or a personal address. If needed, I had a one-to-one table for additional address information peculiar to a particular type. Since zip codes can belong to multiple cities or even to buildings, and cities can have multiple zip codes, I gave up on those and just stored them with the address. The USPS has zip code files, but unless you need to validate to the street address level, I wouldn't bother. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 9:16 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that > will have address information. ?There will probably be no overlap. > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., > fields into each table. > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an > FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 17 15:57:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:57:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Charlotte: If that was true why does the following not product an error? Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. And the master and child links likewise. That's part of the reason why I always used unbound forms/subforms with ADO. I realize your framework is based on bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you might expect, so I didn't go there. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to > set the subform binding properties. > > I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a > known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field > properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't > work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull records > for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset that > the subform is bound to. > > So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search > around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. > > Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form > stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere I > have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the > form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement > (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the parent > fires (new parent PKID). > > All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to ADO. > > Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO > recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the > ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets > the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. > > Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as > the DAO bound form. > > And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out a > way to fix them. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> John, >> >> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >> code that was going sideways. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>> >>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>> >>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>> linking. >>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>> are >>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 16:23:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 17:23:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D827BC1.2040005@colbyconsulting.com> Jim, She didn't say .Clone doesn't exist, she said it functions differently from the DAO Recordsetclone. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 4:57 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Charlotte: > > If that was true why does the following not product an error? > > > Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset > > Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and > Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. And the master > and child links likewise. That's part of the reason why I always used > unbound forms/subforms with ADO. I realize your framework is based on > bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable > binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you > might expect, so I didn't go there. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >> In my framework I do JIT subforms. Part of the JIT subform process is to >> set the subform binding properties. >> >> I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. It appears that it is a >> known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field >> properties of a subform bound to ADO. Broken, throws an error, doesn't >> work, no fix. The work around is to filter the subform to only pull > records >> for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset > that >> the subform is bound to. >> >> So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search >> around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. >> >> Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form >> stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. And in there somewhere > I >> have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the >> form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement >> (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the > parent >> fires (new parent PKID). >> >> All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to > ADO. >> >> Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO >> recordset. I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the >> ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets >> the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. >> >> Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as >> the DAO bound form. >> >> And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out > a >> way to fix them. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >>> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >>> subform with ADO. Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >>> code that was going sideways. >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>>> >>>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>>> >>>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>>> linking. >>>> It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>>> are >>>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 18:46:24 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 16:46:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: The recordset produced by recordset.clone is not the same as the recordsetclone. If you modify RecordsetClone, the change is reflected in the recordset. When you create a recordset using clone, the original and the clone do not interact in that way, or at least they didn't in the versions of Access with which I actually worked (through 2002). Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Charlotte: > > If that was true why does the following not product an error? > > > Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset > > Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and > Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. ?And the master > and child links likewise. ?That's part of the reason why I always used > unbound forms/subforms with ADO. ?I realize your framework is based on > bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable > binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you > might expect, so I didn't go there. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >> In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to >> set the subform binding properties. >> >> I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a >> known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field >> properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't >> work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull > records >> for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset > that >> the subform is bound to. >> >> So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search >> around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. >> >> Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form >> stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere > I >> have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the >> form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement >> (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the > parent >> fires (new parent PKID). >> >> All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to > ADO. >> >> Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO >> recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the >> ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets >> the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. >> >> Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as >> the DAO bound form. >> >> And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out > a >> way to fix them. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >>> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >>> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >>> code that was going sideways. >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >>> ?wrote: >>>> >>>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>>> >>>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>>> >>>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>>> linking. >>>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>>> are >>>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 18 05:57:34 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 03:57:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Charlotte: It appears that I may have never actually used this recordsetclone, never knew the function existed and now I will never have an opportunity to use it again. For that reason I was confused and thought you were discussing recordset.clone. It is sad to know some poor function died before I had a chance to abuse it. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error The recordset produced by recordset.clone is not the same as the recordsetclone. If you modify RecordsetClone, the change is reflected in the recordset. When you create a recordset using clone, the original and the clone do not interact in that way, or at least they didn't in the versions of Access with which I actually worked (through 2002). Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Charlotte: > > If that was true why does the following not product an error? > > > Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset > > Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and > Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. ?And the master > and child links likewise. ?That's part of the reason why I always used > unbound forms/subforms with ADO. ?I realize your framework is based on > bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable > binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you > might expect, so I didn't go there. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >> In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to >> set the subform binding properties. >> >> I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a >> known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field >> properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't >> work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull > records >> for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset > that >> the subform is bound to. >> >> So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search >> around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. >> >> Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form >> stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere > I >> have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the >> form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement >> (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the > parent >> fires (new parent PKID). >> >> All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to > ADO. >> >> Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO >> recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the >> ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets >> the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. >> >> Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as >> the DAO bound form. >> >> And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out > a >> way to fix them. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >>> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >>> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >>> code that was going sideways. >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >>> ?wrote: >>>> >>>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>>> >>>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>>> >>>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>>> linking. >>>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>>> are >>>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 07:04:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:04:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D834A33.1030607@colbyconsulting.com> Robert, Are you using bound forms? Does anyone know how to compare binding to pass through query as opposed to binding to ADO recordset? It seems that binding to a pass-through would leave me in DAO which my framework supports already. Binding to an ADO recordset leaves me in ADO. It is totally unclear to me what goes on in either case "behind the scenes" pulling records from SQL Server, updating the records, updating back to SQL Server and so forth. In a few months or so I will have a better idea of what actually happens but it is tough to make design decisions without already knowing this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 07:18:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D834D8C.4040806@colbyconsulting.com> Robert, What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It immediately asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any time I do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. Am I missing something? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 07:29:47 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:29:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> Robert, From my reading, pass through queries are always returned in a snapshot which makes them non-updateable? These would work great for combos and such but not for bound editable forms correct? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From delam at zyterra.com Fri Mar 18 08:05:21 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:05:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Ribbon In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709591@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709591@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <0651A8A6-C1D3-44BE-810A-E3ABE33D6183@zyterra.com> Best I can see that should do it, however it may want something in it's place rather than a totally blank slate. Personally I have never left it completely blank. Debbie. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 17, 2011, at 11:25 AM, "Kaup, Chester" wrote: > I have the following set up in the table USysRibbons. I thought it > was supposed to hide the ribbon but all it does is remove all the > tab names except home. Am I misunderstanding? > > RibbonName RibbonXML > Menu "http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/01/customui"> > > > > > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Mar 18 10:50:38 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 07:50:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D834D8C.4040806@colbyconsulting.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> <4D834D8C.4040806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D837F4E.8060103@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John In farting around learning SQl Server. At the moment very simply I use For a pass-through query - QryMatrixGrp Dim qdfPassMatrix as QueryDef On form open Set qdfPassMatrix=db.QueryDefs("QryMatrixGrp") qdfPassMatrix.Connect = "Your Connect String" Hope this helps jwcolby wrote: > Robert, > > What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? > > I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it > pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It > immediately asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for > the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user > name / password any time I do anything with that query or the form > that is bound to that query. > > Am I missing something? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > >> John, >> >> You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure >> where you got the idea you could >> not do that. >> You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and >> queries can be modified. I do both >> all the time >> through code. >> >> I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). >> The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case >> of a passthrough query, without >> the parameters. >> In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or >> parameters, then replace the SQL in the >> _1 query. >> The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. >> >> By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or >> parameters, it does not need >> to know any of the >> SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the >> code. >> >> I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and >> Access 2010 with this methodology. >> >> Robert >> >> >> At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> >>> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >>> From: jwcolby >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> >>> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >>> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>> >>> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >>> >>> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, >>> modify and use" because you can't >>> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am >>> going to have to become proficient >>> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the >>> thread above which discusses this >>> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the >>> combos and reports. >>> >>> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never >>> had to use before. Working with >>> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area >>> that I have always wanted to learn. >>> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Mar 18 11:00:01 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:00:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D838181.40005@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John Correct as to what I found out/read so far. Combos, list boxes, reports and read only forms. jwcolby wrote: > Robert, > > From my reading, pass through queries are always returned in a > snapshot which makes them non-updateable? These would work great for > combos and such but not for bound editable forms correct? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > >> John, >> >> You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure >> where you got the idea you could >> not do that. >> You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and >> queries can be modified. I do both >> all the time >> through code. >> >> I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). >> The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case >> of a passthrough query, without >> the parameters. >> In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or >> parameters, then replace the SQL in the >> _1 query. >> The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. >> >> By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or >> parameters, it does not need >> to know any of the >> SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the >> code. >> >> I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and >> Access 2010 with this methodology. >> >> Robert >> >> >> At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> >>> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >>> From: jwcolby >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> >>> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >>> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>> >>> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >>> >>> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, >>> modify and use" because you can't >>> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am >>> going to have to become proficient >>> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the >>> thread above which discusses this >>> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the >>> combos and reports. >>> >>> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never >>> had to use before. Working with >>> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area >>> that I have always wanted to learn. >>> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 10:39:02 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 11:39:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D838181.40005@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> <4D838181.40005@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D837C96.9030806@colbyconsulting.com> It's slowly starting to work... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 12:00 PM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey John > Correct as to what I found out/read so far. Combos, list boxes, reports and read only forms. > > jwcolby wrote: > >> Robert, >> >> From my reading, pass through queries are always returned in a snapshot which makes them >> non-updateable? These would work great for combos and such but not for bound editable forms correct? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: >> >>> John, >>> >>> You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could >>> not do that. >>> You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both >>> all the time >>> through code. >>> >>> I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). >>> The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without >>> the parameters. >>> In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the >>> _1 query. >>> The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. >>> >>> By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need >>> to know any of the >>> SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. >>> >>> I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this >>> methodology. >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> >>> At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >>> >>>> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >>>> From: jwcolby >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> >>>> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >>>> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>>> >>>> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >>>> >>>> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >>>> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >>>> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >>>> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >>>> >>>> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >>>> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to >>>> learn. >>>> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 11:14:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:14:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near Message-ID: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 I modified it to add the table name. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. The following compiles and runs in sql server SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can filter the result set to only a specific set of records. When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 18 12:42:03 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:42:03 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John -- According to the common usage style It would be more correct to write : SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) T1 WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but you can often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) - and you'll be safe & you'll reach the richness.. :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 I modified it to add the table name. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. The following compiles and runs in sql server SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can filter the result set to only a specific set of records. When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 14:29:02 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:29:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> Yep. I am generating the SQL in Access and I test the SQL in a query in Access, where it worked just fine. It is only when trying to give the SQL to an ado recordset object and have that object ask SQL Server for the data that the problem reared its ugly head. It took me a few minutes of head scratching to figure it out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 1:42 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi John -- > > According to the common usage style It would be more correct to write : > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) T1 > WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but you can > often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) - and you'll be safe& you'll reach > the richness.. :) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near > > The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. > > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE > PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I modified it to add the table name. > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE > tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. > > PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. > > The following compiles and runs in sql server > > SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE > tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the outer > statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner sql statement > and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can filter the result > set to only a specific set of records. > > When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. I > thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, discover that > PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. > > If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query window, > it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a swearword as the > alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). > > Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) AS T1 > WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri Mar 18 14:55:39 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:55:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: "I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple in my life, it makes no difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. I understand what goes in each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to 3rd normal. I have read many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood (at the time I read it) *some* of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric." -- JWC LOL. I'm sure I told this story before, but about a decade ago, when I started working for my current employer, I started going back to college. Took an MIS class (Managing Information Services). First day of the class, I was sitting in the back, here I am, 28 years old, with a bunch of people that probably couldn't order a beer. The teacher starts going into the internet, and TCP/IP. Just going over basic stuff. He then goes over a very basic description of an IP address, and asks if anyone knew why each quad of an IP address had values from only 0 to 255. I looked around, no one was answering, so I raised my hand. The professor called on me, and I said 'Because that's 8 bits, or a byte'. Wow, the class looked at me like a herd of deer mesmerized by headlights! LOL. I never studied for any of the tests, and I don't remember if there was homework or not (I would have done the homework if there was some). I always got an A on the tests. This stuff was SOOO far below my level of understanding it wasn't funny, but it was a required course that I couldn't test out of. On one of the tests the question was: What would a relational database developer refer to as a row of data? So here I am, taking this test, and employeed full time as a programmer/developer (with a relational database), and so I answered 'record' (I think it might have been row). Tuple was in the list of answers, but honestly, I hadn't read that chapter in the book. So when I got my test back, it was the only question I had wrong, so I went and asked the instructor. His response was basically 'the book answer is tuple'. I had to laugh at that, because the book also described Widnows 95 and Windows 98 as 'different Operating Systems', which the teacher pointed out in class is 'technically' incorrect. Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Fri Mar 18 15:09:11 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:09:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BB@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> In Access 2003 if you go to Tools, Options in the Tables/Queries tab is an option for SQL Server Compatible Syntax (ANSI 92). I've never played with the setting - but maybe if you had that option turned on, your generated SQL from Access would work as is in SQL Server via ado? HTH, Rusty -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 2:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near Yep. I am generating the SQL in Access and I test the SQL in a query in Access, where it worked just fine. It is only when trying to give the SQL to an ado recordset object and have that object ask SQL Server for the data that the problem reared its ugly head. It took me a few minutes of head scratching to figure it out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 1:42 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi John -- > > According to the common usage style It would be more correct to write : > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > T1 WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but > you can often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) - and you'll be safe& > you'll reach the richness.. :) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near > > The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. > > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I modified it to add the table name. > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. > > PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. > > The following compiles and runs in sql server > > SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE > tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the > outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner > sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can > filter the result set to only a specific set of records. > > When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. > I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, > discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. > > If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query > window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a > swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). > > Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 15:21:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:21:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D83BEBB.2090408@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. Yep, and the strange part of that whole thread is that I have studied all that stuff, though not necessarily all of it in a classroom. I know tuple and relation but it simply isn't used anywhere in the (non-academic) world so why cling to it? All it appears to do is provide a false sense of superiority. If you happen to work at a university and need to discuss these terms on a daily basis with an 80 year old professor who learned that stuff and refuses to use modern terms, then I guess they would be relevant. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 3:55 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > "I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple > in my life, it makes no > difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. > I understand what goes in > each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to > 3rd normal. I have read > many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood > (at the time I read it) *some* > of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric." -- JWC > > LOL. I'm sure I told this story before, but about a decade ago, when I > started working for my current employer, I started going back to > college. Took an MIS class (Managing Information Services). > > First day of the class, I was sitting in the back, here I am, 28 years > old, with a bunch of people that probably couldn't order a beer. The > teacher starts going into the internet, and TCP/IP. Just going over > basic stuff. He then goes over a very basic description of an IP > address, and asks if anyone knew why each quad of an IP address had > values from only 0 to 255. I looked around, no one was answering, so I > raised my hand. The professor called on me, and I said 'Because that's > 8 bits, or a byte'. Wow, the class looked at me like a herd of deer > mesmerized by headlights! LOL. > > I never studied for any of the tests, and I don't remember if there was > homework or not (I would have done the homework if there was some). I > always got an A on the tests. This stuff was SOOO far below my level of > understanding it wasn't funny, but it was a required course that I > couldn't test out of. On one of the tests the question was: > > What would a relational database developer refer to as a row of data? > > So here I am, taking this test, and employeed full time as a > programmer/developer (with a relational database), and so I answered > 'record' (I think it might have been row). Tuple was in the list of > answers, but honestly, I hadn't read that chapter in the book. > > So when I got my test back, it was the only question I had wrong, so I > went and asked the instructor. His response was basically 'the book > answer is tuple'. I had to laugh at that, because the book also > described Widnows 95 and Windows 98 as 'different Operating Systems', > which the teacher pointed out in class is 'technically' incorrect. > > Drew > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > From edzedz at comcast.net Fri Mar 18 18:09:30 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:09:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Message-ID: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Fri Mar 18 18:19:19 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:19:19 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <5614BB72A898456981BE3B79A3BF4D60@stevelaptop> Ed, As far as I am aware, this is simply not possible. You can't establish an ODBC connection from Access to Access. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Edward Zuris Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 12:09 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. From robert at servicexp.com Fri Mar 18 18:33:58 2011 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:33:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: HTPC Command Line Parsing Problem In-Reply-To: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <000c01cbe5c4$f5f78060$e1e68120$@com> Ok, I have been fighting with this for a while now, and just can't seem to come up with a solution Enviroment: Windows Command Line Batch Process Back Ground: My WMC7 HTPC records shows to a folder, from there I have a program called WatchDirectory trigger a batch file for show processing. The batch file logic looks in a SHOWPARMS.txt text file for the show name, and returns to the batch file it's processing parameters. I have the basic framework up and running. Inside SHOWPARMS.txt Example: Glenn;True;"";"C:\VideoCaptures\GlennBeck";False;"";False;False Returns: True;"";"C:\VideoCaptures\GlennBeck";False;"";False;False Batch File Commands So Far: set SEARCHNAME=%WD_FILE_B:~0,4% :find from left to right the row that matches the first 4 characters :: Get the Show Params for /f "tokens=2-9 delims=;" %%A in ('findstr /b /i "%SEARCHNAME%" "C:\SyncFiles\Bat Files\SHOWPARMS.txt"') do ( set sQSF=%%A set sCOM=%%B set sPAT=%%C set sRAR=%%D set sUPL=%%E set sSFV=%%F set sDEL=%%G ) Problem: I need to parse the string backwards from the first "-" (I think). So if a show name is less the 4 characters the batch would still find it in the text file. So code would not only find this string using "Glen" or "Glenn" In "Glenn Beck-" or "GlennBeck-" (Which currently works) but would also need to find "V" in "V-" (currently the show would be missed due to the < 4 characters show name.) Then "-" after the show name is always there. Objective: To make the search string length variable (I think), and not based on the current limited 4 character requirement. To find the "-" after the show name and match as many characters as possible. (I think). ;) Any ideas how I can pull this off? From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 18 18:41:40 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:41:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <5614BB72A898456981BE3B79A3BF4D60@stevelaptop> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1>, <5614BB72A898456981BE3B79A3BF4D60@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <4D83EDB4.3389.6C0AAC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Correct. Trying to do so generates a 3423 error: "You cannot use ODBC to import from, export to, or link an external Microsoft Jet or ISAM database table to your database." -- Stuart On 19 Mar 2011 at 12:19, Steve Schapel wrote: > Ed, > > As far as I am aware, this is simply not possible. You can't > establish an ODBC connection from Access to Access. > > Regards > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Edward Zuris > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 12:09 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access > > > Hello Everyone, > > It has been awhile. > > I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source > and then link tables into another Access database. > > I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, > but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for > Access 2000, or Access 2003. > > Any suggestions on how to do that ? > > Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? > > Thanks. > > Sincerely, > Ed Zuris. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 18 19:26:30 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:26:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <000f01cbe5cc$4e10e410$ea32ac30$@comcast.net> Instead of ODBC, can you use the IN keyword? Dim stgFullPath as string Dim stgSQL as string stgFullPath = "//Server/Folder/DataTables.mdb" stgSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblMain IN '" & stgFullPath & "'" _ & " WHERE ID = 1" I use this frequently - avoids table links between access files, and performs well. HTH! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 6:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From edzedz at comcast.net Fri Mar 18 22:43:01 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:43:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <000f01cbe5cc$4e10e410$ea32ac30$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000001cbe5e7$c1434b10$5bdea8c0@edz1> Thanks. That idea works. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 5:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Instead of ODBC, can you use the IN keyword? Dim stgFullPath as string Dim stgSQL as string stgFullPath = "//Server/Folder/DataTables.mdb" stgSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblMain IN '" & stgFullPath & "'" _ & " WHERE ID = 1" I use this frequently - avoids table links between access files, and performs well. HTH! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 6:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 23:56:12 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 21:56:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BB@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BB@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: Trust me, you ALWAYS have to test SQL in SQL Server if you're going to use it there. At my last job, our apps ran against either SQL Server or Access back ends, so every SQL statement built in code had to be checked against both environments and we had to branch the code where the versions of SQL differed in their behavior. Charlotte Foust On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Rusty Hammond wrote: > In Access 2003 if you go to Tools, Options in the Tables/Queries tab is > an option for SQL Server Compatible Syntax (ANSI 92). ?I've never played > with the setting - but maybe if you had that option turned on, your > generated SQL from Access would work as is in SQL Server via ado? > > HTH, > > Rusty > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 2:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near > > Yep. ?I am generating the SQL in Access and I test the SQL in a query in > Access, where it worked just fine. ?It is only when trying to give the > SQL to an ado recordset object and have that object ask SQL Server for > the data that the problem reared its ugly head. > > It took me a few minutes of head scratching to figure it out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/18/2011 1:42 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: >> Hi John -- >> >> According to the common usage style It would be more correct to ?write > : >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> T1 WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but >> you can often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) ?- and you'll be safe& >> you'll reach the richness.. :) >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >> Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near >> >> The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. >> >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> I modified it to add the table name. >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. >> >> PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. >> >> The following compiles and runs in sql server >> >> SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?WHERE >> tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the >> outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner >> sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can > >> filter the result set to only a specific set of records. >> >> When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. > >> I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, >> discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. >> >> If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query >> window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. ?It does give me a >> swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in > Access). >> >> Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 19 08:24:54 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:24:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note Message-ID: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sat Mar 19 09:06:35 2011 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 14:06:35 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0FD11B4C294B4099B2AE2CCC86D2369D@MINSTER> Can we have that in English? Andy -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 19 March 2011 13:25 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at servicexp.com Sat Mar 19 09:26:46 2011 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:26:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000901cbe641$b09e7af0$11db70d0$@com> Not too bad, make sure you dl Titanium Backup W/Root in the marketplace .. Fantastic backup program.. ;) Now that you're rooted (s-Off), the sky's the limit on what you can do with your phone now. Have Fun.. WBR Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 09:49:32 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 07:49:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. I just upgraded my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. What a process! Charlotte On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the > bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at my house > I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad > considering it is over cell. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 19 09:54:22 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:54:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <000901cbe641$b09e7af0$11db70d0$@com> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <000901cbe641$b09e7af0$11db70d0$@com> Message-ID: <4D84C39E.6020109@colbyconsulting.com> Z4Mod is what I used to do the root. It is pretty cool, allowing me to root / modify / unroot very easily! I am using the free Bloat Freezer to freeze apps. It seems this makes for simpler upgrades in the future? I am still trying to discover what is really useful to freeze. Mostly I just wanted to get rid of the obvious crapware like CityID and AmazonMP3. And of course set up the tether. My problem right now is that the tether doesn't give me an encryption scheme that matches Vista so I can't lock the tether which kinda sucks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/19/2011 10:26 AM, Robert wrote: > Not too bad, make sure you dl Titanium Backup W/Root in the marketplace .. > Fantastic backup program.. ;) Now that you're rooted (s-Off), the sky's the > limit on what you can do with your phone now. > > Have Fun.. > > WBR > Robert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the > bloatware, and downloaded > and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down > and .5 mbit up via the > tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 12:10:24 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:10:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note Message-ID: Hopefully Verizon doesn't follow at&t. They sent text messages and email to jailbroken iPhones that were tethering, saying that they need to add tethering to their plan. Sent from my Droid phone. On Mar 19, 2011 7:55 AM, "jwcolby" wrote: From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 19 14:50:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:50:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps Message-ID: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 19:28:38 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 17:28:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Useful to me, personally? GasBuddy, Mileage, MissingSync, DocumentsToGo, FliqCalendar and FliqNotes (sync with Outlook), Extended Controls, Expense Tracker. Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:50 PM, jwcolby wrote: > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From robert at servicexp.com Sat Mar 19 19:29:22 2011 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:29:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000001cbe695$dd5a9d90$980fd8b0$@com> Google Nav. & Maps Remote Desktop AndFTP QuickOffice Astro RealCalc Elec. Wiring Pro Area & Volume ES File Explorer FeedR IMDb CadreBible ... are the programs I seem to use the most. Some others include: Dictionary Bank Of America App Flixster Calorie Counter The UnderGround Remote Media Center ..etc.. ;) WBR Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 21:59:33 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 19:59:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <000001cbe695$dd5a9d90$980fd8b0$@com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cbe695$dd5a9d90$980fd8b0$@com> Message-ID: I also use AT&T Navigator when I don't have my big gps with me and I use both the Amazon Kindle reader and the Nook reader on my phone. Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Robert wrote: > Google Nav. & Maps > Remote Desktop > AndFTP > QuickOffice > Astro > RealCalc > Elec. Wiring Pro > Area & Volume > ES File Explorer > FeedR > IMDb > CadreBible > > ... are the programs I seem to use the most. > > Some others include: > > Dictionary > Bank Of America App > Flixster > Calorie Counter > The UnderGround > Remote Media Center > > ..etc.. ;) > > > WBR > Robert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 22:03:22 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:03:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, what's wrong with that??? You got to use the technology! LOL Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:10 AM, David McAfee wrote: > Hopefully Verizon doesn't follow at&t. They sent text messages and email to > jailbroken iPhones that were tethering, saying that they need to add > tethering to their plan. > > Sent from my Droid phone. > On Mar 19, 2011 7:55 AM, "jwcolby" wrote: > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 00:26:57 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 22:26:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note Message-ID: IMO it is stupid. I mean if you are paying for unlimited minutes, who cares how you use them? Sent from my Droid phone. On Mar 19, 2011 8:04 PM, "Charlotte Foust" wrote: From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun Mar 20 06:39:32 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 22:39:32 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <201103201139.p2KBdksT023637@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Dropbox. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby [jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 6:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 12:20:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:20:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Message-ID: Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 12:23:36 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:23:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 12:44:14 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:44:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <1370177E6BEB484F824E2304AF853FED@HAL9005> Never mind. I figured it out. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sun Mar 20 12:50:13 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 20:50:13 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 13:14:16 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 11:14:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> <66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> Message-ID: <926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> It's in the after update of an option frame where the user picks one of two subforms. But I got it to work. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sun Mar 20 14:49:05 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 22:49:05 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005><66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> <926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> Message-ID: <36FB6626070E45EE8DC95FCDD76352AC@nant> Hi Rocky -- Yes, I have seen from your other message that you've solved the issue. It could have been that subform has had "Dirty = True" when you tried to change its recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 21:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source It's in the after update of an option frame where the user picks one of two subforms. But I got it to work. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 16:42:11 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:42:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <36FB6626070E45EE8DC95FCDD76352AC@nant> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005><66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant><926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> <36FB6626070E45EE8DC95FCDD76352AC@nant> Message-ID: <5EFBBB3C31144D259CDD77B043CD2F96@HAL9005> Shamil: I had about 4 other things wrong with that form and code - but got them all straightened out. Final code is: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = _ "Select * FROM tblProductionRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " _ & Val(Nz(Me.cboPanelDefID.Column(0))) Ans takes care of the problem of the user not selecting a record from the cboPanelDef combo box - the subform then has zero records. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 12:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- Yes, I have seen from your other message that you've solved the issue. It could have been that subform has had "Dirty = True" when you tried to change its recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 21:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source It's in the after update of an option frame where the user picks one of two subforms. But I got it to work. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun Mar 20 20:05:35 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:05:35 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Howdy It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same way the Yanks do... That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- "I rooted my droid X last night" Hmm - And then Charlottes response:- "I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. Andy - Comments please. Snigger -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. I just upgraded my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. What a process! Charlotte On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all > the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at > my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not > bad considering it is over cell. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 20:12:26 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:12:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely NOT what it means here! Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone > (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same > way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung > from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >> bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun Mar 20 20:29:01 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:29:01 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <019901cbe767$5ca89170$15f9b450$@activebilling.com.au> Insert little boy snigger here Ok - Nothing to see here folks - nothing to see here ...move along, move along -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely NOT what it means here! Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a > phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not > the same way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my > Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here >> at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. >> Not bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun Mar 20 20:46:30 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:46:30 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely NOT what it means here! Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone > (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same > way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung > from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >> bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Mar 20 21:02:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:02:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> References: , <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for > you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: > > Howdy > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' > > a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not > > the same way the Yanks do... > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > Andy - Comments please. > > Snigger > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my > > Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > Charlotte > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > wrote: > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the > >> tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 23:43:22 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 21:43:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Lush as an adjective means the same thing here. Lush used as a noun is what you're thinking of. Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather unnerving. ?and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... ?Another one is "Lush". ?Lush to may Aussies is short for Lusicous or delicious. ?Probably not such a good pick up line to approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush tonight. ?aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > Here, now! ?This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! ?I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: >> Howdy >> It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone >> (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. >> Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same >> way the Yanks do... >> >> That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- >> ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" >> Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- >> ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" >> Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. >> Andy - Comments please. >> Snigger >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >> Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note >> >> I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung >> from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! >> >> Charlotte >> >> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby >> wrote: >>> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >>> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >>> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >>> bad considering it is over cell. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon Mar 21 00:13:32 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:13:32 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103210513.p2L5Dd00017041@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ hahaha, I am not sure how successful I would be trying to explain the semantics of that to the tipsy (and now offended) 'woman at the bar' when she gives me a filthy look in response. :) However, I will keep that in mind just in case! cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 3:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note Lush as an adjective means the same thing here. Lush used as a noun is what you're thinking of. Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather unnerving. ?and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... ?Another one is "Lush". ?Lush to may Aussies is short for Lusicous or delicious. ?Probably not such a good pick up line to approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush tonight. ?aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > Here, now! ?This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! ?I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: >> Howdy >> It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone >> (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. >> Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same >> way the Yanks do... >> >> That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- >> ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" >> Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- >> ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" >> Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. >> Andy - Comments please. >> Snigger >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >> Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note >> >> I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung >> from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! >> >> Charlotte >> >> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby >> wrote: >>> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >>> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >>> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >>> bad considering it is over cell. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From darren at activebilling.com.au Mon Mar 21 00:18:38 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:18:38 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <020e01cbe787$70afc600$520f5200$@activebilling.com.au> Gold - I laughed out loud at this one :-) (Still don't know what the U.S. version of rooting a phone means - I really do want to know) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for > you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: > > Howdy > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' > > a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not > > the same way the Yanks do... > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > Andy - Comments please. > > Snigger > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my > > Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > Charlotte > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > wrote: > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the > >> tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Mar 21 00:27:18 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:27:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <020e01cbe787$70afc600$520f5200$@activebilling.com.au> References: , <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <020e01cbe787$70afc600$520f5200$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4D86E1B6.10271.61E090@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/04/15/rooting-explained-top-5-benefits-of-rooting-your- android-phone/ First, for the newbies, let me clarify what rooting is. Getting root or rooting your phone is the process of modifying the operating system on your device to grant you complete control over it. This means you can overcome limitations that the carriers and manufacturers put on your phone, extend system functionality, and even upgrade it to a custom flavor of Android. The name root comes from the Linux operating system world, where the most privileged user on the system (otherwise known as Administrator on Windows) is called root. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 16:18, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Gold - I laughed out loud at this one :-) > (Still don't know what the U.S. version of rooting a phone means - I > really do want to know) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 1:02 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. > > -- > Stuart > > On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the > > bottom of this message. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting > > for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these > > things. > > > > cheers > > Darryl. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I > > know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's > > definitely NOT what it means here! > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > > wrote: > > > Howdy > > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as > > > 'rooting' a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in > > > Australia. Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. > > > Perhaps not the same way the Yanks do... > > > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > > Andy - Comments please. > > > Snigger > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access > > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > > > On a lighter note > > > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded > > > my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > > > Charlotte > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > > wrote: > > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via > > >> the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> John W. Colby > > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by > > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon Mar 21 00:36:56 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:36:56 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D86E1B6.10271.61E090@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201103210537.p2L5b3oU030569@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ >From memory the term root comes from the concept of an (upside down) tree (directory tree to be precise). Where the base of all things is the root. Thus "Root Directory" being the master access directory etc. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 4:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/04/15/rooting-explained-top-5-benefits-of-rooting-your- android-phone/ First, for the newbies, let me clarify what rooting is. Getting root or rooting your phone is the process of modifying the operating system on your device to grant you complete control over it. This means you can overcome limitations that the carriers and manufacturers put on your phone, extend system functionality, and even upgrade it to a custom flavor of Android. The name root comes from the Linux operating system world, where the most privileged user on the system (otherwise known as Administrator on Windows) is called root. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 16:18, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Gold - I laughed out loud at this one :-) > (Still don't know what the U.S. version of rooting a phone means - I > really do want to know) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 1:02 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. > > -- > Stuart > > On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the > > bottom of this message. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting > > for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these > > things. > > > > cheers > > Darryl. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I > > know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's > > definitely NOT what it means here! > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > > wrote: > > > Howdy > > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as > > > 'rooting' a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in > > > Australia. Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. > > > Perhaps not the same way the Yanks do... > > > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > > Andy - Comments please. > > > Snigger > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access > > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > > > On a lighter note > > > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded > > > my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > > > Charlotte > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > > wrote: > > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via > > >> the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> John W. Colby > > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by > > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Mon Mar 21 07:54:04 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:54:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root my phone to use it. Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, home computer - have access to my notes anywhere -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 09:01:22 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:01:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: I was watching a home gardening show this weekend and one person tells the other "tug on it a little" or "give me a little tug". The host, who is Australian, said "that would mean something completely different in Australia " :) Sent from my Droid phone. On Mar 20, 2011 6:07 PM, "Darren - Active Billing" < darren at activebilling.com.au> wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone > (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same > way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > "I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm - And then Charlottes response:- > "I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. I just upgraded my Samsung > from Eclair to Froyo last night. What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at >> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >> bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Robert at WeBeDb.com Mon Mar 21 10:30:43 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:30:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <443C0DB8-9EF4-47E2-A9BF-758E2CD9BDDD@holly.arvixe.com> No, I do not bind to a pass through except in the case of a combobox or report. If you bind to a pass through, it is not editable. So, I only bind to them to things that I would not be editing. I use views for all my binding. Having also been and am a SQL Server DBA, I do not allow direct access to the SQL tables. At 07:04 AM 3/18/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:04:03 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D834A33.1030607 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Robert, > >Are you using bound forms? > >Does anyone know how to compare binding to pass through query as >opposed to binding to ADO recordset? > >It seems that binding to a pass-through would leave me in DAO which >my framework supports already. >Binding to an ADO recordset leaves me in ADO. It is totally unclear >to me what goes on in either >case "behind the scenes" pulling records from SQL Server, updating >the records, updating back to SQL >Server and so forth. In a few months or so I will have a better >idea of what actually happens but >it is tough to make design decisions without already knowing this stuff. From Robert at WeBeDb.com Mon Mar 21 10:51:48 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:51:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is a property in the design view, ODBC Connect String. My local development copy looks something like this: ODBC;DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=tg9078;UID=sa;PWD=monkey;DATABASE=WWCI_Master_Data Once that is filled in, you should not get any more hits asking you for that info. At 09:27 AM 3/19/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D834D8C.4040806 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Robert, > >What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? > >I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made >it pass-through by changing the >sql specific to pass through. It immediately asked me for a dsn, >and when I gave it one it asked me >for the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / >user name / password any time I >do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. > >Am I missing something? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon Mar 21 11:13:35 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:13:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PPT to Video In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com>, , <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au>, Message-ID: I've been searching for a decent PowerPoint to video converter so as to burn some DVDs of some PowerPoint marketing material. So far the free stuff yeilds crappy results and the trial stuff isn't much better. Does anyone have a suggestion of something free or inexpensive that yeilds high quality results? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From kismert at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 11:18:30 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:18:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime Message-ID: John, This got me curious about how I do this, so I did some rooting around. First, I find the DSN-less ODBC connect string for my SQL Server connection. My example: ODBC;Driver={SQL Server};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; For SQL Server 2008, you will need to install the SQL Server Native Client. For this, the connect string would be: ODBC;Driver={SQL Server Native Client 10.0};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; The native client will connect to all SQL Server instances from version 2000 on up. You can easily connect Access 2000 to SQL Server 2008 in this manner. Note: for TableDefs, Access conveniently mangles the connect string, so I keep the correct one in a VBA constant. Then I just make a SQL Pass-Through query, and paste the connect string in the ODBC Connect Str property. Put in your SQL, and save. My experience is that the connect string is stable, and doesn't need to be changed, even when you modify the query's SQL. You can also make a table that is direct-linked to SQL server with the same ODBC connect string. This may be easier in later versions of Access, but in 2000, you need code. The following requires a reference to ADOX (ADO Ext. 2.8 for DDL and Security): ' Adds a linked External table ' ' Parameters: ' sProviderString - ADO Provider string (can be ODBC Connect string) ' sSourceTbl - Source table name (provider) ' sLinkTblName - Link table name (local) ' bSavePassword - True: Set "Cache Link Name/Password" property ' ' Adapted from Visual Basic Programmer's Guide: Data Access Components ' http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/office/office2000/proddocs/opg/part3/ch14.mspx ' Public Sub CreateLinkedExternalTable(sProviderString As String, _ sSourceTbl As String, _ sLinkTblName As String, _ Optional bSavePassword As Boolean = False) Dim rCatalog As ADOX.Catalog Dim rTable As ADOX.Table On Error GoTo HandleErr ' Get current Catalog Set rCatalog = CurrentCatalog Set rTable = New ADOX.Table With rTable ' Name the new Table and set its ParentCatalog property to the ' open Catalog to allow access to the Properties collection. .Name = sLinkTblName Set .ParentCatalog = rCatalog ' Set the properties to create the link. .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Create Link") = True .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Link Provider String") = sProviderString .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Remote Table Name") = sSourceTbl If bSavePassword Then .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Cache Link Name/Password") = True End If End With ' Append the table to the Tables collection. rCatalog.Tables.Append rTable Set rCatalog = Nothing Exit Sub HandleErr: Err.Raise Err.Number, "CreateLinkedExternalTable" & VbCrLf & Err.Description End Sub With this, you can write normal, non-pass-through select queries against the table, and use it in DAO code with it just like any other TableDef. I wouldn't go crazy with multi-ODBC-table joins, though. Alas, you can't write normal update, insert or delete queries against an ODBC tabledef, as the underlying recordset is not updateable. For that, you will need the aforementioned ODBC Pass-through queries, and use some method for storing the base SQL like Robert's. You can call stored procedures this way, but for that, I would recommend using ADO, setting the parameters in code, and calling the procedure directly. -Ken ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving < > accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > Robert, > > What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? > > I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it > pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It immediately > asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for the user name / > password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any > time I do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. > > Am I missing something? > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 11:52:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:52:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D878265.9020102@colbyconsulting.com> Thanks Ken. I am slowly getting this sorted. I will try and write up what I am doing once I get it all figured out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 12:18 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > John, > > This got me curious about how I do this, so I did some rooting around. > > First, I find the DSN-less ODBC connect string for my SQL Server connection. > My example: > > ODBC;Driver={SQL > Server};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; > > For SQL Server 2008, you will need to install the SQL Server Native Client. > For this, the connect string would be: > > ODBC;Driver={SQL Server Native Client > 10.0};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; > > The native client will connect to all SQL Server instances from version 2000 > on up. You can easily connect Access 2000 to SQL Server 2008 in this manner. > > Note: for TableDefs, Access conveniently mangles the connect string, so I > keep the correct one in a VBA constant. > > Then I just make a SQL Pass-Through query, and paste the connect string in > the ODBC Connect Str property. Put in your SQL, and save. > > My experience is that the connect string is stable, and doesn't need to be > changed, even when you modify the query's SQL. > > You can also make a table that is direct-linked to SQL server with the same > ODBC connect string. This may be easier in later versions of Access, but in > 2000, you need code. The following requires a reference to ADOX (ADO Ext. > 2.8 for DDL and Security): > > ' Adds a linked External table > ' > ' Parameters: > ' sProviderString - ADO Provider string (can be ODBC Connect string) > ' sSourceTbl - Source table name (provider) > ' sLinkTblName - Link table name (local) > ' bSavePassword - True: Set "Cache Link Name/Password" property > ' > ' Adapted from Visual Basic Programmer's Guide: Data Access Components > ' > http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/office/office2000/proddocs/opg/part3/ch14.mspx > ' > Public Sub CreateLinkedExternalTable(sProviderString As String, _ > sSourceTbl As String, _ > sLinkTblName As String, _ > Optional bSavePassword As Boolean = False) > > Dim rCatalog As ADOX.Catalog > Dim rTable As ADOX.Table > > On Error GoTo HandleErr > > ' Get current Catalog > Set rCatalog = CurrentCatalog > > Set rTable = New ADOX.Table > With rTable > ' Name the new Table and set its ParentCatalog property to the > ' open Catalog to allow access to the Properties collection. > .Name = sLinkTblName > Set .ParentCatalog = rCatalog > ' Set the properties to create the link. > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Create Link") = True > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Link Provider String") = sProviderString > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Remote Table Name") = sSourceTbl > If bSavePassword Then > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Cache Link Name/Password") = True > End If > End With > > ' Append the table to the Tables collection. > rCatalog.Tables.Append rTable > Set rCatalog = Nothing > > Exit Sub > > HandleErr: > Err.Raise Err.Number, "CreateLinkedExternalTable"& VbCrLf& > Err.Description > End Sub > > With this, you can write normal, non-pass-through select queries against the > table, and use it in DAO code with it just like any other TableDef. I > wouldn't go crazy with multi-ODBC-table joins, though. > > Alas, you can't write normal update, insert or delete queries against an > ODBC tabledef, as the underlying recordset is not updateable. > > For that, you will need the aforementioned ODBC Pass-through queries, and > use some method for storing the base SQL like Robert's. > > You can call stored procedures this way, but for that, I would recommend > using ADO, setting the parameters in code, and calling the procedure > directly. > > -Ken > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving< >> accessd at databaseadvisors.com> >> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Robert, >> >> What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? >> >> I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it >> pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It immediately >> asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for the user name / >> password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any >> time I do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. >> >> Am I missing something? >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 11:55:24 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:55:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D8782FC.1000300@colbyconsulting.com> I tried using that (a week or so ago) and it failed, but I am trying to connect to an IP address over Hamachi and that failed. Just changing the server name from an English name to an IP address failed. OTOH I could open a recordset using the IP address and that worked. There is more to this than meets the eye. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 11:51 AM, Robert wrote: > There is a property in the design view, ODBC Connect String. > > My local development copy looks something like this: > ODBC;DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=tg9078;UID=sa;PWD=monkey;DATABASE=WWCI_Master_Data > > Once that is filled in, you should not get any more hits asking you for that info. > > At 09:27 AM 3/19/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D834D8C.4040806 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Robert, >> >> What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? >> >> I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it pass-through by changing the >> sql specific to pass through. It immediately asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me >> for the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any time I >> do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. >> >> Am I missing something? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 12:53:16 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:53:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4D87908C.80806@colbyconsulting.com> Them Aussies .... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 10:01 AM, David McAfee wrote: > I was watching a home gardening show this weekend and one person tells the > other "tug on it a little" or "give me a little tug". > > The host, who is Australian, said "that would mean something completely > different in Australia " > > :) > > Sent from my Droid phone. > On Mar 20, 2011 6:07 PM, "Darren - Active Billing"< > darren at activebilling.com.au> wrote: >> Howdy >> It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a > phone >> (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. >> Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the > same >> way the Yanks do... >> >> That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- >> "I rooted my droid X last night" >> Hmm - And then Charlottes response:- >> "I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" >> Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. >> Andy - Comments please. >> Snigger >> >> From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 16:36:07 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 14:36:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: My phone didn't handle tethering until Android 2.2. That's one of the features previously unavailable for me. I have Evernote, but I confess, I've never used it. I used OneNote when I had a Windows phone and kind of miss that functionality. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Rusty Hammond wrote: > pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root > my phone to use it. > > Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, > home computer - have access to my notes anywhere > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 22:20:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 23:20:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: <4D881580.9000300@colbyconsulting.com> I am now able to use (barely) PDANet. It connects but is very slow, about 125 kbit up and oddly, about 225K down. I can't ping any ip number directly but I can ping google.com though the response is slow. I am able to browse things like newegg but it is just very slow. But it does work. I had to disable my other network interfaces though. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 5:36 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > My phone didn't handle tethering until Android 2.2. That's one of the > features previously unavailable for me. I have Evernote, but I > confess, I've never used it. I used OneNote when I had a Windows > phone and kind of miss that functionality. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Rusty Hammond wrote: >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root >> my phone to use it. >> >> Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, >> home computer - have access to my notes anywhere >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA >> Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps >> >> What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? >> >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> ********************************************************************** >> WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, >> scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. >> corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review >> by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. >> ********************************************************************** >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Tue Mar 22 08:04:38 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 08:04:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com><49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0C1@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> I missed some of the features in OneNote when I first started with Evernote, but the ability to get to the notes from whatever device I'm using makes up for it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps My phone didn't handle tethering until Android 2.2. That's one of the features previously unavailable for me. I have Evernote, but I confess, I've never used it. I used OneNote when I had a Windows phone and kind of miss that functionality. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Rusty Hammond wrote: > pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to > root my phone to use it. > > Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, > home computer - have access to my notes anywhere > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or > review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From rlister at actuarial-files.com Tue Mar 22 10:08:33 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:08:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Message-ID: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Mar 22 10:13:09 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:13:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709B04@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Not very good but it can be done in ms paint. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 22 10:29:41 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 08:29:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 Message-ID: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all of my customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development from there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing development and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more back ups - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. TIA Rocky From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 10:44:21 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:44:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: There's a freebie called IconThief that can open Exes and DLLs and grab their iconic contents, saving them to a file. c.f. http://hem.passagen.se/kajetan/thief.html. HTH, Arthur On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create > icon > files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 10:50:52 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:50:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet -- very selective business for now. Susan H. > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all of > my > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development from > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing development > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more back > ups > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > Didn't see any on the web site. > > TIA > > Rocky From jengross at gte.net Tue Mar 22 12:02:52 2011 From: jengross at gte.net (Jennifer Gross) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:02:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed - question for Lambert In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003f01cbe8b2$fba023f0$1201a8c0@Schroeder> Hi Lambert, Would you share your code for opening and keeping open this recordset. I have always shied away from global variables, but it seems that this would need one to keep it open. I would like to see how you do it so that I know I am on the right track. Thanks, Jennifer Gross -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed I just open a recordset on a table in the back end (as it happens a dedicated dummy table that is not used for anything else) in a Front End application form that opens hidden when the application starts up. That form's main purpose in life is to check if any user is not doing anything for n minutes, and if so it automatically shuts the database down. In the Close event of the form the recordset object is closed. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed That sounds more elegant than the code I found. Would you mind sharing the code? Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed Persistent connection means that you open one recordset to each BE and *hold it open*. What this does for you is gets the lock used to open the BE and holds it open. It is that first "connect to the BE file" lock that takes the longest and can be quite time consuming (5-10 seconds) if there are dozens of users in the BE. I have written code which opens a recordset and stores a pointer to the open recordset in a list. I actually use about a half dozen BEs at one client so I have a half dozen recordsets open and held open. I went so far as to create a tblHoldOpen with zero records in it, one tblHoldOpen in each BE. I then open a recordset SELECT * FROM tblHoldOpenXYZ. These are LINKED to tblHoldopen in BE XYZ. So i open each tblHoldOpen in each BE and then throw a pointer to that recordset into a collection where it stays open until the FE closes. Voila, persistent connections. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/10/2011 10:01 AM, jm.hwsn wrote: > Good points Jim, thanks. > I have turned off the sub-datasheets... I usually do that regardless > of the version. > I don't have any control over the servers, but I can ask them to make > some changes. > I never thought about the virus scan... I'll check into that. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:52 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed > > Jim, > > The exclusive point is in regards to the FE in a split design, which > each user should have their own copy of, so opening exclusive would be > appropriate. > > Some other items: > > 1. Make sure the new ACE DB's are not being virus scanned. Since the > extension has changed, anti-virus sometimes kicks in. > > 2. Turn off the sub datasheets feature on all tables (FE and BE). Not > specific to A2007, but often overlooked. > > 3. Turning off OPLOCKs on the server, but that impacts all apps and > again, this applies to all versions (not A2007 specifically). > > 4. Often, A2007 is used in conjunction with a new server like 2008. > It appears that the SMB 2.0 specification is giving some apps > headaches, although this is not fully clear yet. Some report the app > works better when the server is forced to use SMB 1.0 protocol, others > 2.0, so your mileage may vary. > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 08:58 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed > > Access 2007 is inherently slow on a network configured using FE/BE scenario. > > I have scoured several websites and spent a lot of hours, to see if > A2007 can be modified to speed it up. > > Several "tips" were obscure on the sites and might only be mentioned > in passing. > > Here is what I've found: > > 1) ensure there is a persistent connection to the BE. Code can be > found on the FMS, Inc. site. > > 2) Ensure the BE location is in a "Trusted Location" in the FE. > > 3) Change record-level locking. I set the following: > > OLE/DDE timeout: 30 > > Refresh interval: 30 > > Number of update retries: 2 > > ODBC refresh interval: 120 > > Update retry interval: 250 > > 4) Turn off unused user interface features such as: Show animations > and Show Smart Tags on Datasheets > > > > In my somewhat limited test, my FE runs almost as fast as an > integrated file. I know it's running little slower, but I can barely > see the difference > - I can live with it. The biggest improvement came when I did 2 and 3 > above. I still haven't done or tested number 1 above. > > > > Other items that are recommended are: > > change the default open mode: Exclusive > > default record locking: Edited Record. > > However, I don't think these would work with a shared BE. I don't > think there is a way to make these different for two separate files. > > > > Do you have any other ideas or words of wisdom or comments? > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jengross at gte.net Tue Mar 22 12:02:52 2011 From: jengross at gte.net (Jennifer Gross) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:02:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004001cbe8b2$fc01f300$1201a8c0@Schroeder> If you decide not to build your own there are several websites out there with free icons, like http://www.iconarchive.com/ Jennifer Gross -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Icon Files There's a freebie called IconThief that can open Exes and DLLs and grab their iconic contents, saving them to a file. c.f. http://hem.passagen.se/kajetan/thief.html. HTH, Arthur On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create > icon > files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Robert at WeBeDb.com Tue Mar 22 11:06:09 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:06:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: John, If you are using the IP address, you might try adding a comma and 1433 at the end of the IP address. That is the port SQL Server. listens on by default. Change the 1433 to the port if you have changed the default. We found on some connections that we needed to do that before it would connect properly. We also saw that when using the name for the server on some connections. There was no real consistency to it. Robert At 10:29 AM 3/22/2011, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:55:24 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D8782FC.1000300 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >I tried using that (a week or so ago) and it failed, but I am trying >to connect to an IP address >over Hamachi and that failed. Just changing the server name from an >English name to an IP address >failed. OTOH I could open a recordset using the IP address and that worked. > >There is more to this than meets the eye. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Mar 22 12:11:44 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:11:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access replication Message-ID: <000501cbe8b4$390ea710$5bdea8c0@edz1> Can't anyone please direct me to a simple example of using Access replication ? I am using MsAccess 2000 and 2003. Also isn't there some kind of stripped down version of MSFT's SQL server for operations on the desk top ? Where would find that to work on W2K ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 11:16:56 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:16:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access replication In-Reply-To: <000501cbe8b4$390ea710$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <000501cbe8b4$390ea710$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: Replication isn't simple, but it doesn't need to be overly complicated. What are you trying to achieve with it? Charlotte Foust On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > ?Can't anyone please direct me to a simple > ?example of using Access replication ? > > ?I am using MsAccess 2000 and 2003. > > ?Also isn't there some kind of stripped > ?down version of MSFT's SQL server for > ?operations on the desk top ? > > ?Where would find that to work on W2K ? > > ?Thanks. > > ?Sincerely, > ?Ed Zuris. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 22 11:18:01 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:18:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> Yeah still beta I guess from the web site. Just got wind of it so I'm curious. If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid of that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from wherever. Just a romantic notion. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet -- very selective business for now. Susan H. > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all > of my customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > development from there? What about the lag time of manipulating an > app, doing development and testing, on a remote server? It would be > convenient - no more back ups > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > Didn't see any on the web site. > > TIA > > Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 11:22:19 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:22:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: Hi Ralf: For taking a larger picture and rendering it down into an icon size there is a free generator app online: http://www.htmlkit.com/services/favicon/ It creates in a couple of sizes and formats. (An initial strong simple designs work best) I am assuming you already have a graphic editor to either create or edit the original image. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 11:25:18 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:25:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> Message-ID: <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> Absolutely true. I think you could make that happen now, but I don't understand all the logistics. Some publishers would like me to cover it, but nobody can get in the beta! Right now, you have to be a really big company with lots of users. Susan H. > Yeah still beta I guess from the web site. Just got wind of it so I'm > curious. If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid of > that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from wherever. > Just a romantic notion. > > R From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 11:31:27 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:31:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Absolutely true. I think you could make that happen now, but I don't understand all the logistics. Some publishers would like me to cover it, but nobody can get in the beta! Right now, you have to be a really big company with lots of users. Susan H. > Yeah still beta I guess from the web site. Just got wind of it so I'm > curious. If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid of > that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from wherever. > Just a romantic notion. > > R -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Tue Mar 22 11:31:59 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:31:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: Here is an Icon editor I use. You can edit other Icons with it. Cost $20 US but there is a free shareware trial. I've also used Snagit to get a picture of an Icon I wanted to make and pasted to it. http://www.iconedit2.com/ Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 11:41:20 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:41:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005><003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, but not this time. I signed up months ago... Susan H. > There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 11:57:02 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:57:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, but not this time. I signed up months ago... Susan H. > There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rlister at actuarial-files.com Tue Mar 22 11:59:57 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:59:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <001801cbe8b2$94578ee0$bd06aca0$@com> A huge thank you to you all for helping me with my icon stuff. Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia De: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] En nombre de Steve Turner Enviado el: Martes, 22 de Marzo de 2011 12:32 p.m. Para: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Asunto: Re: [AccessD] Icon Files Here is an Icon editor I use. You can edit other Icons with it. Cost $20 US but there is a free shareware trial. I've also used Snagit to get a picture of an Icon I wanted to make and pasted to it. http://www.iconedit2.com/ Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So? do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3522 - Release Date: 03/22/11 From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 12:06:39 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:06:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005><003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins><317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> Bah... I'm absolutely nobody -- they've never even heard of me. Now, I am surprised that they're not letting the major publishers in yet -- at least, none that I work with. Far as I know, no individuals are in the beta -- well, probably the MVPs, folks like that. Susan H. > If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? > > Jim > > In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, > but not this time. > > I signed up months ago... > > Susan H. > > >> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 12:09:36 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:09:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: Sounds like something that would work for Colby's current project. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all of my > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development from > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing development > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more back ups > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > Didn't see any on the web site. > > TIA > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 12:51:04 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:51:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Susan: Don't we have a few MVP folks in our midst? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Bah... I'm absolutely nobody -- they've never even heard of me. Now, I am surprised that they're not letting the major publishers in yet -- at least, none that I work with. Far as I know, no individuals are in the beta -- well, probably the MVPs, folks like that. Susan H. > If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? > > Jim > > In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, > but not this time. > > I signed up months ago... > > Susan H. > > >> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 13:49:36 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:49:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: My Microsoft Partner status - part of the Action Pack Subscription - let me ask to be part of the Beta. But it was sure to tell me that NOT EVERYONE WILL GET A SPOT. GK On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Susan: > > Don't we have a few MVP folks in our midst? > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:07 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Bah... I'm absolutely nobody -- they've never even heard of me. Now, I am > surprised that they're not letting the major publishers in yet -- at least, > none that I work with. Far as I know, no individuals are in the beta -- > well, probably the MVPs, folks like that. > > > Susan H. > > >> If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? >> >> Jim >> >> In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, >> but not this time. >> >> I signed up months ago... >> >> Susan H. >> >> >>> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 14:04:58 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 15:04:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005><003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins><317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins><0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins><822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <13B3D772D7BE4FFE9C4A7BCFCA898FE8@SusanHarkins> Did you apply? Susan H. > My Microsoft Partner status - part of the Action Pack Subscription - > let me ask to be part of the Beta. But it was sure to tell me that NOT > EVERYONE WILL GET A SPOT. From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 14:35:14 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 14:35:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <13B3D772D7BE4FFE9C4A7BCFCA898FE8@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <13B3D772D7BE4FFE9C4A7BCFCA898FE8@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I did ask to be part of the beta. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > Did you apply? > Susan H. > >> My Microsoft Partner status - part of the Action Pack Subscription - >> let me ask to be part of the Beta. But it was sure to tell me that NOT >> EVERYONE WILL GET A SPOT. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 22 14:54:07 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 05:54:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <4D88FE5F.25610.8A1D989@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Use your favourite graphics program to create it in any multiple of 16x16 pixels and then use Irfanview to resize it and convert it to .ico. -- Stuart On 22 Mar 2011 at 11:08, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you > create icon files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 22 14:57:52 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 05:57:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, , <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D88FF40.17779.8A5465F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You still need a good internet connection for it. If you are moving around and don't know what sort of internet connection you will be using next week, you would be better of using and carrying around a development laptop (which is what I do). On 22 Mar 2011 at 9:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid > of that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from > wherever. Just a romantic notion. > > R > From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 22 16:44:15 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:44:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] test Message-ID: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> John B -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 22 16:51:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 07:51:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4D8919E9.31595.90D6BEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> IMNSHO, all such advertisements on emails passed through filtering products turn the products themselves into spam engines. They are definitely trying to sell their product and I did not ask to receive their advertising. I would not use them on principle. -- Stuart On 22 Mar 2011 at 16:44, John Bartow wrote: > John B > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Mar 22 17:06:21 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (edzedz at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 22:06:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I have been having trouble replying to an email. What is going on ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "DBA-Access" Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:44:15 PM Subject: [AccessD] test John B -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 22 17:21:38 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:21:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <4D8919E9.31595.90D6BEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> <4D8919E9.31595.90D6BEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <00bb01cbe8df$836b4ef0$8a41ecd0$@winhaven.net> Yeah, sorry about that. I keep manually turning off the add-in because I can't find my reg. # for it. But I forgot this time. The product works good where needed but their advertising is annoying if you don't pay for it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] test IMNSHO, all such advertisements on emails passed through filtering products turn the products themselves into spam engines. They are definitely trying to sell their product and I did not ask to receive their advertising. I would not use them on principle. -- Stuart From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 22 17:21:38 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:21:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <00bf01cbe8df$84909510$8db1bf30$@winhaven.net> I'm not sure yet. John Colby emailed me off line so I went in to see what was happening and everything seemed to check out OK. I'm cc-ing the List master on this. I guess he'll have to do his magic. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of edzedz at comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] test I have been having trouble replying to an email. What is going on ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "DBA-Access" Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:44:15 PM Subject: [AccessD] test John B -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kismert at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 18:12:43 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:12:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Message-ID: Two programs I use: IcoFX: http://icofx.ro/ Free donation-ware Supports Windows 7, Macintosh, and Web PNG-style icons, with alpha-blended transparency. This one is very easy to use, and up-to-date. Inkscape http://inkscape.org/ Open source GNU GPLv2 SVG vector editor. Version 0.48.1 is a major step forward, and supports several modes for creating Icon-style graphics. This program is much more challenging to use, but it can produce first rate icon graphics. Vector graphics are inherently scalable, so it is simple to produce all icon sizes from a single drawing. Inkscape exports to png bitmap, and converts to vector formats like xaml, eps, pdf, emf, and others. -Ken -----Original Message----- > Ralf Lister: > > Hello, > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create > icon > files? > From kathryn at bassett.net Tue Mar 22 18:30:09 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:30:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <006501cbe8e9$15e7ae00$41b70a00$@net> http://www.favicon.co.uk/ > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:09 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files > > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon > files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > From kathryn at bassett.net Tue Mar 22 18:32:23 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:32:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps Message-ID: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Rusty said: > pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root > my phone to use it. I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a Samsung Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying Verizon for tethering. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:16:33 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:16:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. Tethering is built into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. Charlotte Foust On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > Rusty said: >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root >> my phone to use it. > > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a Samsung > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying > Verizon for tethering. > > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:20:06 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:20:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: It's an added monthly cost, now that Verizon and AT&T offer it. $20/month IIRC On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market > (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. Tethering is built > into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett > wrote: > > Rusty said: > >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root > >> my phone to use it. > > > > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a > Samsung > > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in > > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying > > Verizon for tethering. > > > > > > -- > > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > > kathryn at bassett.net > > http://bassett.net > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:37:22 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:37:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: Over and above the unlimited data plan? Charlotte Foust On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM, David McAfee wrote: > It's an added monthly cost, now that Verizon and AT&T offer it. > > $20/month IIRC > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Charlotte Foust > wrote: > >> My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market >> (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. ?Tethering is built >> into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett >> wrote: >> > Rusty said: >> >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root >> >> my phone to use it. >> > >> > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a >> Samsung >> > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in >> > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying >> > Verizon for tethering. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) >> > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" >> > kathryn at bassett.net >> > http://bassett.net >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Tue Mar 22 19:55:39 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:55:39 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <8014C171AFE944879C38E8363D8226AF@stevelaptop> Ralf, I use Axialis IconWorkshop. It is a totally brilliant product. I see they are currently offering it for $US25. http://www.axialis.com/ Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Ralf Lister Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:08 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? From kismert at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:58:32 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 19:58:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Message-ID: Some free icon library sources: famfamfam http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/ A popular free icon source. IconEden -- Free Vector Icons http://www.iconeden.com/icon/category/free My personal favorite, load into Inkscape, and modify for your needs. Great examples of how to build vector images. p.yusukekamiyamane http://p.yusukekamiyamane.com/ Free if attribution is given. IconPot http://www.iconpot.com/ Please respect the licensing terms of the various icon authors. -Ken From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Mar 22 20:33:57 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 21:33:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PPT to Video In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com>, , <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au>, Message-ID: <000001cbe8fa$61b4d4a0$251e7de0$@net> I think you want Camtasia by TechSmith..... > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jurgen Welz > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 12:14 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT: PPT to Video > > > I've been searching for a decent PowerPoint to video converter so as to > burn some DVDs of some PowerPoint marketing material. > > So far the free stuff yeilds crappy results and the trial stuff isn't > much better. Does anyone have a suggestion of something free or > inexpensive that yeilds high quality results? > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Mar 22 21:04:58 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 22:04:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 22 23:24:42 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 21:24:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> Message-ID: Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 23 03:38:25 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:38:25 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B2569CA@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Have a look at live at Edu this will give you some idea of what it's like. Add in SharePoint and your almost there. Martin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: 23 March 2011 02:05 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 23 05:22:42 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 06:22:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> Message-ID: Macros are the answer! Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 05:30:39 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 20:30:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, , Message-ID: <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) -- Stuart On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Macros are the answer! > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:25 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > One minor problem: > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it > > yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > > all > > of > > > my > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > > from > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > development > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > > back > > > ups > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing > > > yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > Rocky > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 11:49:45 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:49:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > One minor problem: > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it > > > yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > > > all > > > of > > > > my > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > > > from > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > development > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > > > back > > > > ups > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing > > > > yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > Rocky > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 12:00:44 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:00:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: I believe so, but I'm not sure if it is a physical connection (USB) tether or the mobile wifi/hotspot option, or both. If you didn't receive the text message that they sent out the other day, you should be ok. I think is complete BS. Uunlimited data, should be that. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Over and above the unlimited data plan? > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM, David McAfee > wrote: > > It's an added monthly cost, now that Verizon and AT&T offer it. > > > > $20/month IIRC > > > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Charlotte Foust > > wrote: > > > >> My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market > >> (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. Tethering is built > >> into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. > >> > >> Charlotte Foust > >> > >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett > >> wrote: > >> > Rusty said: > >> >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to > root > >> >> my phone to use it. > >> > > >> > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a > >> Samsung > >> > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in > >> > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying > >> > Verizon for tethering. > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > >> > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > >> > kathryn at bassett.net > >> > http://bassett.net > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 23 12:11:15 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:11:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook Calendars (a bit OT) Message-ID: <671D5178AF944D1691C710DA6840737D@HAL9005> Dear List: I have a client who recently installed a server and they added a shared calendar to their Outlook (Firm calendar) which is on the server. So everyone has access to the Firm calendar and their local calendar on their own comp. The problem is that they can set alerts for their local calendar but not for the shared calendar. Outlook tells them when they add a item to the Firm calendar that they cannot set alerts because "the item is not in a folder that supports reminders". Sometimes they get a second notice that the Firm calendar is not the primary calendar so the responses will not be tallied. They would like to be able to set alerts for both calendars. Can this be done? If not they would like alerts for the Firm calendar. But I'm no good with Outlook. Any guidance on this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 14:03:15 2011 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:03:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: You are going to need to be more specific. Do the emails not show up? Are you getting bounces? Are you not getting answers? etc, etc, etc. The more info YOU give, the better answer we can give. Bryan On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 6:06 PM, wrote: > > I have been having trouble replying to an email. > > What is going on ? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "DBA-Access" > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:44:15 PM > Subject: [AccessD] test > > John B > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Wed Mar 23 14:34:46 2011 From: listmaster at databaseadvisors.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:34:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - Spam Filtering on DBA Servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We have made a change to the way our mailservers deal with spam filtering. We were getting too many false positive reports from one of the spam black list services we use, so we have discontinued using them. Hopefully your bounce troubles should be over, or at the very least greatly minimized. If you continue to have issues surrounding bounces, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE get in touch with me (listmaster at databaseadvisors OR carbonnb at gmail.com if the listmaster address bounces). -- Bryan Carbonnell - listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 23 15:41:12 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:41:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Test Message Message-ID: <005001cbe99a$a6977410$5bdea8c0@edz1> This is a test to see if I get a bounce. From garykjos at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 14:55:17 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:55:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Test Message In-Reply-To: <005001cbe99a$a6977410$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <005001cbe99a$a6977410$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: Got it here Edward. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > ?This is a test to see if I get a bounce. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 23 16:05:37 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:05:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Test Message In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201cbe99e$0f95ef20$5bdea8c0@edz1> It is working. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Test Message Got it here Edward. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > ?This is a test to see if I get a bounce. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 23 15:57:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:57:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] test Message-ID: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> test - was bouncing! -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 16:02:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:02:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console Message-ID: I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display status of events that are happening. After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does in a DOS window. Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar down? If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete everything up to the first VBCRLF. Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? Thanks, David From carbonnb at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 16:02:42 2011 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:02:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Now not bouncing. On 2011-03-23 4:59 PM, "jwcolby" wrote: > test - was bouncing! > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 23 16:08:19 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:08:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <88DC0D9EDDB64C58AEE9B36CF615ED34@HAL9005> After adding to the text box, could you find the total length of the text in the text box and do a .SelStart at that position? Would that work? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Faux console I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display status of events that are happening. After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does in a DOS window. Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar down? If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete everything up to the first VBCRLF. Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? Thanks, David -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Wed Mar 23 16:25:52 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:25:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: <006f01cbe9a0$e318bec0$a94a3c40$@net> Verizon charges $30/month for the data plan and $30/month for tethering. The data plan is per month included in your contract. The tethering can get turned on and off and you pay a pro-rated amount for the time actually turned on. Before pdaNet, I would turn on tethering before a long weekend, and turn off when I returned, paying for the 3, 4, 5 days only. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > I believe so, but I'm not sure if it is a physical connection (USB) tether > or the mobile wifi/hotspot option, or both. > > If you didn't receive the text message that they sent out the other day, you > should be ok. > > I think is complete BS. Uunlimited data, should be that. > > > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Charlotte Foust > wrote: > > > Over and above the unlimited data plan? > > > > Charlotte Foust From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 16:49:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 07:49:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. -- Stuart On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > Jim. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > One minor problem: > > > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for > > > > it yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to > > > > > put all > > > > of > > > > > my > > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > > > > > development > > > > from > > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > > development > > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no > > > > > more > > > > back > > > > > ups > > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any > > > > > pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:02:20 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:02:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: <88DC0D9EDDB64C58AEE9B36CF615ED34@HAL9005> References: <88DC0D9EDDB64C58AEE9B36CF615ED34@HAL9005> Message-ID: I was looking at that at first, but I think it required the "console" to have focus, and I just wanted to update it. I got it working: Private Sub UpdateStatus(StatusText As String) Dim intCurrPos As Integer Dim intNumberOfVbCrLFs As Integer, intFirstVbCrLf As Integer, FoundVbCrLf As Integer intCurrPos = 1 Me.txtStatus = Me.txtStatus + StatusText & vbCrLf Do Until intCurrPos >= Len(Me.txtStatus.Value) FoundVbCrLf = InStr(intCurrPos, Me.txtStatus.Value, vbCrLf) If FoundVbCrLf Then 'found If intFirstVbCrLf = 0 Then intFirstVbCrLf = FoundVbCrLf intCurrPos = FoundVbCrLf + 2 intNumberOfVbCrLFs = intNumberOfVbCrLFs + 1 If intCurrPos > Len(Me.txtStatus.Value) Then Exit Do Else 'not found intCurrPos = intCurrPos + 1 End If Loop If intNumberOfVbCrLFs > 16 Then Me.txtStatus = Right(Me.txtStatus.Value, Len(Me.txtStatus.Value) - (intFirstVbCrLf + 1)) End Sub On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > After adding to the text box, could you find the total length of the text > in > the text box and do a .SelStart at that position? Would that work? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:03 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Faux console > > I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display > status > of events that are happening. > > After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. > > The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does in a > DOS window. > > Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar down? > > If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete > everything up to the first VBCRLF. > > Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? > > Thanks, > David > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:03:11 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:03:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Sadly, me too. :( On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > > -- > Stuart > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > > wrote: > > > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > > > Jim. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > One minor problem: > > > > > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for > > > > > it yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to > > > > > > put all > > > > > of > > > > > > my > > > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > > > > > > development > > > > > from > > > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > > > development > > > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no > > > > > > more > > > > > back > > > > > > ups > > > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any > > > > > > pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 17:10:44 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:10:44 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Message-ID: <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In tab. Am I doing something wrong? Public Sub basSetProperties() basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" End Sub Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue basSetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_basSetProperty: Exit Function Err_basSetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else basSetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_basSetProperty End If End Function Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > >Carolyn Johnson From cjlabs at att.net Wed Mar 23 17:19:34 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:19:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> That looks like what I use. Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In tab. Am I doing something wrong? Public Sub basSetProperties() basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" End Sub Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue basSetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_basSetProperty: Exit Function Err_basSetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else basSetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_basSetProperty End If End Function Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > >Carolyn Johnson -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 17:20:13 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:20:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D8A721D.3979.339251D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I normally use a listbox for this. Set the rowsource to Value List and make sure that it is not sorted. Function AddToLogList(strData) 'Add new item to the end lstLog.Additem(strData) 'Remove first item if list is now too long If lstLog.Listcount > 50 then lstLog.RemoveItem(0) end if 'Move to last item in list lstLog = strData End Function On 23 Mar 2011 at 14:02, David McAfee wrote: > I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display > status of events that are happening. > > After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. > > The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does > in a DOS window. > > Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar > down? > > If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete > everything up to the first VBCRLF. > > Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? > > Thanks, > David > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 17:36:19 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:36:19 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> Message-ID: <20110323223717.WJFG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I have a number of custom menus but all forms and reports have a custom menu assigned to them. David At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >That looks like what I use. > >Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? > >Carolyn Johnson > > >----- Original Message ----- > From: David Emerson > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that > opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and > am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In > tab. Am I doing something wrong? > > Public Sub basSetProperties() > > basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" > basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" > ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" > > End Sub > > Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long > > On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > Set db = CurrentDb > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > basSetProperty = True > Set db = Nothing > > Exit_basSetProperty: > Exit Function > > Err_basSetProperty: > If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found > Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, > varPropValue) > db.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > basSetProperty = False > MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description > Resume Exit_basSetProperty > End If > > End Function > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > > At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of > >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the > >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do > >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > > > >Carolyn Johnson From cjlabs at att.net Wed Mar 23 17:40:44 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:40:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell><20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> <20110323223717.WJFG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: And one of them is called MenuBarMenus? That's the menu bar on the first form? Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I have a number of custom menus but all forms and reports have a custom menu assigned to them. David At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >That looks like what I use. > >Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? > >Carolyn Johnson > > >----- Original Message ----- > From: David Emerson > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that > opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and > am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In > tab. Am I doing something wrong? > > Public Sub basSetProperties() > > basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" > basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" > ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" > > End Sub > > Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long > > On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > Set db = CurrentDb > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > basSetProperty = True > Set db = Nothing > > Exit_basSetProperty: > Exit Function > > Err_basSetProperty: > If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found > Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, > varPropValue) > db.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > basSetProperty = False > MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description > Resume Exit_basSetProperty > End If > > End Function > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > > At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of > >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the > >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do > >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > > > >Carolyn Johnson -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:46:15 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:46:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: <4D8A721D.3979.339251D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D8A721D.3979.339251D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: ooh, and much more simple! On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I normally use a listbox for this. Set the rowsource to Value List and make > sure that it is not > sorted. > > Function AddToLogList(strData) > 'Add new item to the end > lstLog.Additem(strData) > > 'Remove first item if list is now too long > If lstLog.Listcount > 50 then > lstLog.RemoveItem(0) > end if > > 'Move to last item in list > lstLog = strData > End Function > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 14:02, David McAfee wrote: > > > I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display > > status of events that are happening. > > > > After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. > > > > The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does > > in a DOS window. > > > > Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar > > down? > > > > If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete > > everything up to the first VBCRLF. > > > > Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? > > > > Thanks, > > David > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 17:56:41 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:56:41 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> <20110323223717.WJFG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20110323225725.YMLG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Yes - that is the menu in the menu bar property. Could I send you the file off line to test to see if you have the same result? It is a basic app with no tables and four forms? David At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >And one of them is called MenuBarMenus? That's the menu bar on the >first form? > >Carolyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Emerson > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:36 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > I have a number of custom menus but all forms and reports have a > custom menu assigned to them. > > David > > At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > >That looks like what I use. > > > >Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? > > > >Carolyn Johnson > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Emerson > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > > > > I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that > > opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and > > am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In > > tab. Am I doing something wrong? > > > > Public Sub basSetProperties() > > > > basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False > > > > basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True > > > > basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" > > basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" > > ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" > > > > End Sub > > > > Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > > Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long > > > > On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty > > > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > > Set db = CurrentDb > > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > > basSetProperty = True > > Set db = Nothing > > > > Exit_basSetProperty: > > Exit Function > > > > Err_basSetProperty: > > If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found > > Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, > > varPropValue) > > db.Properties.Append prp > > Resume Next > > Else > > basSetProperty = False > > MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description > > Resume Exit_basSetProperty > > End If > > > > End Function > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand > > > > At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > > >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of > > >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the > > >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do > > >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > > > > > >Carolyn Johnson > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ramzcbu at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 19:52:07 2011 From: ramzcbu at gmail.com (Ramz .) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:52:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: test - was bouncing... From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 23 22:05:08 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:05:08 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA Message-ID: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Folks, I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design mode. WTF? Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I am going about it completely the wrong way. Access 2003 BTW... Regards Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 22:21:25 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:21:25 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA In-Reply-To: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <20110324032200.PYDO26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Darryl, Try the Caption property instead. Me.tabIntro.Pages(1).Caption = "Acceptance Criteria (" & gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 24/03/2011, Darryl Collins wrote: >_______________________________________________________________________________________ > >Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >bottom of this message. >_______________________________________________________________________________________ > > >Hi Folks, > >I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. > >Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & >gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" > >but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a >very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design mode. WTF? > >Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to >set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I >am going about it completely the wrong way. > >Access 2003 BTW... > >Regards >Darryl. > >_____________________________________ > >Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer >Retail Business Insurance >Insurance Australia Group (IAG) >Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia >Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 >Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 22:23:18 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 13:23:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA In-Reply-To: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D8AB926.1156.D1768A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Why would you want to change the Name property of any control at runtime. It will break all references to the control. Are you sure it isn't the Caption that you want to change? -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 14:05, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi Folks, > > I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. > > Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & > gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" > > but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a > very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design > mode. WTF? > > Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to > set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I > am going about it completely the wrong way. > > Access 2003 BTW... > > Regards > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 23 22:37:57 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:37:57 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA In-Reply-To: <4D8AB926.1156.D1768A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201103240338.p2O3c5VQ020670@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ aaaah, Yes, Gentlemen, this is exactly what I need, along with more than the 5 hours sleep a night I have gotten for the past two nights. Of course it would be Caption and not Name. Oddly, I did actually know that, but hey... stupid does what stupid does when having a brain freeze and major senior moment. Thanks guys. Appreciate the heads up - back on track. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2011 2:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA Why would you want to change the Name property of any control at runtime. It will break all references to the control. Are you sure it isn't the Caption that you want to change? -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 14:05, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi Folks, > > I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. > > Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & > gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" > > but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a > very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design > mode. WTF? > > Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to > set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I > am going about it completely the wrong way. > > Access 2003 BTW... > > Regards > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 01:14:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 23:14:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. -- Stuart On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > Jim. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > One minor problem: > > > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for > > > > it yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to > > > > > put all > > > > of > > > > > my > > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > > > > > development > > > > from > > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > > development > > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no > > > > > more > > > > back > > > > > ups > > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any > > > > > pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 24 07:27:58 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:27:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu Mar 24 07:47:36 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:47:36 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. Martin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to > move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good > money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their > first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the > technology divide are you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* > from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 09:07:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 07:07:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 24 09:41:10 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:41:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> Microsoft still doesn't get it; while people do want new features, first and foremost they want something that works day in and day out. And if it doesn't work, they want it FIXED. Not another version which has a new set of problems and requires more hardware to run. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Thu Mar 24 10:17:48 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:17:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com><74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> Message-ID: Amen to that. I used Firefox almost exclusively till I had to use IE on some particular sites. However When I updated to IE 8 and Somewhere I installed some little program of which I don't know Or the latest Firefox Update caused my print reports in Firefox to quit working. Havn't figured that one out yet and some State sites and the Bank I use I had to switch back to IE to get printouts. I'm thinking it's a MS thing. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Microsoft still doesn't get it; while people do want new features, first and foremost they want something that works day in and day out. And if it doesn't work, they want it FIXED. Not another version which has a new set of problems and requires more hardware to run. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 24 10:26:54 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:26:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not there... Give me a stinkin sandbox ... I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's and children's machines as well. One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were hitting the page file. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 10:37:34 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:37:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: A2007 and Windows Mobile 7 did it for me. A2007, new ribbon and layout, but still leaving old bugs/problems. WM5/6 with SQL Server CE was such an awesome combination. To drop it and force existing apps to be rewritten in Silverlight/XML, made me say "I'm done with new MS technologies". I've had to completely rewrite, existing/working mobile apps because of MS' forcing of new technologies and deprecating totally working systems. If I'm learning something new, it's going to be Android/iPhone programming. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide > are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > > -- > Stuart > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > > wrote: > > > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > > > Jim. > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 11:22:22 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 09:22:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Message-ID: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 11:44:54 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:44:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 12:32:17 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:32:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Jim: I get a compile error on the EOF - argument not optional. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 13:05:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:05:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> Message-ID: <31F23530A68141E1927C3B6C84D83F7F@creativesystemdesigns.com> It is an MS thing. It is how the site was built. The site builder first created the site in IE and that is a far as they went...just a little lazy as IE tends to break a good number of the W3C rules. I first build my sites so they would perfect on Chrome, FF, Safari and Opera, and that may take a week then there is IE and to get it to comply takes another week. (Clients never like paying double for IE compliance. Some have gone so far, in their in Intranet sites as to block IE) It usually requires another set CSS and JS script files, a few patches but using JQuery mostly handles the problems. JQuery usually tries to keep ahead of IE but it can be a difficult task...with every update another set of problems... IE6/IE7/IE8 and now IE9 all work slightly different. I am sure MS IE will eventually compile with the industry standards but I am sure it is a humbling experience for them to realize that, unlike the old days, their standard does not imply the new world standard. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Amen to that. I used Firefox almost exclusively till I had to use IE on some particular sites. However When I updated to IE 8 and Somewhere I installed some little program of which I don't know Or the latest Firefox Update caused my print reports in Firefox to quit working. Havn't figured that one out yet and some State sites and the Bank I use I had to switch back to IE to get printouts. I'm thinking it's a MS thing. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Microsoft still doesn't get it; while people do want new features, first and foremost they want something that works day in and day out. And if it doesn't work, they want it FIXED. Not another version which has a new set of problems and requires more hardware to run. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Thu Mar 24 13:05:43 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 13:05:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003d01cbea4e$180e9a70$482bcf50$@comcast.net> Try: Do While Not Me.Recordset.EOF -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Jim: I get a compile error on the EOF - argument not optional. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 13:14:23 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:14:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser wars: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs-opera -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 Real benchmark testing. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not there... Give me a stinkin sandbox ... I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's and children's machines as well. One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were hitting the page file. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu Mar 24 13:58:02 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 18:58:02 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9662B@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Sent from my Windows Phone Sent from my Windows Phone -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 March 2011 18:16 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser wars: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs-opera -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 Real benchmark testing. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not there... Give me a stinkin sandbox ... I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's and children's machines as well. One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were hitting the page file. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 24 14:59:46 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:59:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Browser wars... In-Reply-To: <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D8BA2B2.5010107@colbyconsulting.com> Now open task manager and click on processes. Sort image name A>Z. Open 10 copies of IE. Open 10 copies of Firefox. I use Google.com as the home page for both. Just observe the number and sizes of the instances of both programs. Close all the instances of both. Open Firefox and then open msnbc.com in the first tab. I use MSNBC.com simply because it is a fairly "heavy" site. Now open five tabs inside of that firefox instance and open msnbc.com in each tab. Do the same with IE. Observe task manager, specifically observe the number of instances of each program and observe the memory used for each instance in task manager. I simply suggest this test because there is more to a browser than the java engine it uses. One of the reasons I switched to Firefox was that (back in the day) I was running a laptop with a half gig of memory. I multitask and I was hitting the swap file all the time. What I discovered was that with a bunch of stuff open, IE was sitting at 400 megs of RAM. When I tried Firefox it would use a hundred megs. It seems both have gotten "fatter" in the years since. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser wars: > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs-opera > -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 > > Real benchmark testing. > > Jim From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 15:32:05 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 13:32:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: <003d01cbea4e$180e9a70$482bcf50$@comcast.net> References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> <003d01cbea4e$180e9a70$482bcf50$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5FD6004813D344ECB0E374785C75E57F@HAL9005> Dan: That works, but the spell check still stops after the first correction. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Try: Do While Not Me.Recordset.EOF -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Jim: I get a compile error on the EOF - argument not optional. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 24 15:44:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:44:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk>, <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8BAD1A.5229.282E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Why the h*** should I have to go into Internet Explorer options to make an application run properly over the LAN? Even just to make WIndows Help work properly!!!! -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 11:26, jwcolby wrote: > I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have > never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to > allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not > there... From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 24 15:58:39 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:58:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com>, <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D8BB07F.282.290246E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That's basically just Javascript interpretation speed. And their is very little difference between the various browsers. To me there are a lot more important issues such as "security crap", memory usage, user interface, capabilities. In my case, I use Firefox because there are a some Addons which drastically improve my productivity. -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 11:14, Jim Lawrence wrote: > For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser > wars: > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs > -opera -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 > > Real benchmark testing. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:27 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I > dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have > never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to > allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not > there... > > Give me a stinkin sandbox ... > > I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird > and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's > and children's machines as well. > > One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is > pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for > awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It > used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were > hitting the page file. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use > > whatever > opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if > it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I > can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and > problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone > has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, > "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. > Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has > refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft > claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as > good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into > the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide > are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no > use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that > site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox > winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE > only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On > 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft > will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers > along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently > the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first > warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> > technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original > Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> > McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are > forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than > simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 16:45:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:45:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Message-ID: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Dear List: I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter" I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the second machine where it's a period on the first machine? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 24 17:04:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:04:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export In-Reply-To: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> References: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D8BC006.15776.2CCCC9F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Almost certainly the case. The comma is used as a decimal character in a lot of languages. That's why I always use Tab separated values when I have the choice. -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 14:45, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText > command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well > on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export > fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): > > "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal > separator or text delimiter" > > I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the > second machine where it's a period on the first machine? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 24 17:16:18 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 01:16:18 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export In-Reply-To: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> References: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: Hi Rocky -- That "ancient" sample VBA code http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s/download/imex.htm could help to solve your issue I hope. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 25 ????? 2011 ?. 0:45 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Dear List: I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter" I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the second machine where it's a period on the first machine? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 17:49:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:49:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export In-Reply-To: References: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <96D0BBC235A14AAAAC79CD7FB326E295@HAL9005> Shamil: If I can't solve it with the simple fix of having them changing the decimal character, this looks like a good workaround. Thanks. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Hi Rocky -- That "ancient" sample VBA code http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s/download/imex.htm could help to solve your issue I hope. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 25 ????? 2011 ?. 0:45 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Dear List: I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter" I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the second machine where it's a period on the first machine? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 22:24:23 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:24:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: Problems exporting Data Message-ID: Whew! Rocky _____ From: Hanne Gutjahr [mailto:hanne at co2bambu.com] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:45 PM To: Rocky Smolin Subject: Re: Problems exporting Data Hi Rocky, I changed the settings on the new machine and now it is working. Thanks for your help, Hanne 2011/3/24 Rocky Smolin Hanne: The translation of the error message is: The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter I suspect that in the Regional and Language Options on the new machine the decimal separator is set to comma and on the machine where it is working it is set to period. Is that the case? Click Start-->Control Panel-->Regional and Language Options-->(on regional options tab) Customize... HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com _____ From: Hanne Gutjahr [mailto:hanne at co2bambu.com] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:37 AM To: Rocky Smolin Subject: Re: Problems exporting Data Attached the error report (it is in Spanish though) Putting Office 2003 is not really an alternative as everyone else in the office is working with 2007 so it makes life more complicated having different Office versions... Thanks Hanne 2011/3/24 Rocky Smolin From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 09:45:42 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:45:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Message-ID: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 25 10:21:29 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:21:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 10:34:07 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:34:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4d8cb5f2.afb3ec0a.2ed3.3651@mx.google.com> Thanks Dan. Let me work on these... I'll let you know what I find out. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 25 10:56:52 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:56:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Auto Close a Simple MessageBox Message-ID: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> I found this in an old forum to allow a messagebox to close automatically. I've tried it and it works just fine! '-------------- Alternatively you could use the following code in place of your message box: CreateObject("WScript.Shell").Popup "Test.", 2, "Test" the user can also click the ok button to close the popup, or the popup will automatically close itself after two seconds, and continue on with your macro. replace "Test" with the appropriate message and title, and replace the number 2 with the number of seconds you want the popup to remain. '-------------- Dan From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 12:28:48 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 13:28:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Auto Close a Simple MessageBox In-Reply-To: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Thanks Dan. On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > I found this in an old forum to allow a messagebox to close automatically. > I've tried it and it works just fine! > > '-------------- > Alternatively you could use the following code in place of your message > box: > > CreateObject("WScript.Shell").Popup "Test.", 2, "Test" > > the user can also click the ok button to close the popup, or the popup will > automatically close itself after two seconds, and continue on with your > macro. replace "Test" with the appropriate message and title, and replace > the number 2 with the number of seconds you want the popup to remain. > '-------------- > > Dan > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 25 16:41:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 07:41:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, Message-ID: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx :-) From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 16:48:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:48:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Well, for heaven's sake, why did I spend all that time learning VBA and then VB.Net?? LOL Charlotte Foust On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who want something easy to > use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 16:55:00 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:55:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: That's the route I wish Google would have went with AppInventor insterad of the graphical puzzle blocks of code that they are using. > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want > something easy to > > use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > > > :-) > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Fri Mar 25 16:59:33 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 10:59:33 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> Very cool. Seriously, as the father of a 10-year-old, it is good to know about stuff like that. Thanks, Stuart, I hadn't seen that before! Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] New Language For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx :-) From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 25 17:16:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 08:16:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Yep, I'm about to introduce it to my 8-year-old daughter. -- Stuart On 26 Mar 2011 at 10:59, Steve Schapel wrote: > Very cool. Seriously, as the father of a 10-year-old, it is good to > know about stuff like that. Thanks, Stuart, I hadn't seen that > before! > > Regards > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] New Language > > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want > something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just > the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 25 17:44:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 15:44:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> I guess once we have mastered that link we can go down the page and download Drupal. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 2:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] New Language For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx :-) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 17:51:36 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 15:51:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: When my son was 13 I volunteered to do a weekly computer lab with about 10 kids from his class. I tried to teach them Turtle Logo on Apple IIs. That's when I realized I was destined to be a programmer not a teacher. Doug From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Fri Mar 25 18:12:06 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:12:06 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <17E7406BDC414E848AC1A342A51639AC@stevelaptop> LOL! Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Doug Steele Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language When my son was 13 I volunteered to do a weekly computer lab with about 10 kids from his class. I tried to teach them Turtle Logo on Apple IIs. That's when I realized I was destined to be a programmer not a teacher. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 26 08:50:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:50:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. It was a big wedding too. Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. This might be it. Thanks Stuart. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to > use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 11:01:25 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:01:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Gawd, how times have changed. When my son was small, it was an etch-a-sketch!! Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby wrote: > LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. > > Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be it. > > Thanks Stuart. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >> >> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who want >> something easy to >> use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: >> >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >> >> :-) >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Mar 26 11:08:39 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:08:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <72F56912CF9B418EB4483A5EADFE731E@HAL9005> Max will be telling his grandchildren: "Why when I was a toddler all I had was a CP/M machine with a monochrome monitor. " I put a mouse in his hand when he was about 1 1/2 (1991). He doesn't remember life without a computer. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language Gawd, how times have changed. When my son was small, it was an etch-a-sketch!! Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby wrote: > LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. > > Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be it. > > Thanks Stuart. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >> >> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who >> want something easy to use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have >> just the thing for you: >> >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >> >> :-) >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 11:19:26 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:19:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <72F56912CF9B418EB4483A5EADFE731E@HAL9005> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <72F56912CF9B418EB4483A5EADFE731E@HAL9005> Message-ID: A mouse? The only mice my son encountered were the white ones in the pet shop! LOL Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Max will be telling his grandchildren: "Why when I was a toddler all I had > was a CP/M machine with a monochrome monitor. " > > I put a mouse in his hand when he was about 1 1/2 (1991). ?He doesn't > remember life without a computer. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 9:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language > > Gawd, how times have changed. ?When my son was small, it was an > etch-a-sketch!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. >> >> Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be > it. >> >> Thanks Stuart. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>> >>> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who >>> want something easy to use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have >>> just the thing for you: >>> >>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >>> >>> :-) >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 26 11:51:41 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:51:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/26/2011 12:01 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Gawd, how times have changed. When my son was small, it was an etch-a-sketch!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> LOL. It was a big wedding too. >> >> Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. This might be it. >> >> Thanks Stuart. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>> >>> For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want >>> something easy to >>> use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: >>> >>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >>> >>> :-) >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat Mar 26 13:39:31 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:39:31 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> Hi Stuart --- And this one can be used as a prototyping tool for serious Small Basic young programmers :) http://www.yoyogames.com/gamemaker/ (My 9+ years old son has just made his first "Galactic Burgers" game using this tool :)) BTW, he is playing computer games for several years and his first games were 3D "Spider Man" - and he (as all nowadays kids) can play that games virtuously but he just noted that "old 2D games were much better" - imagine that! :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 26 ????? 2011 ?. 1:17 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language Yep, I'm about to introduce it to my 8-year-old daughter. -- Stuart On 26 Mar 2011 at 10:59, Steve Schapel wrote: > Very cool. Seriously, as the father of a 10-year-old, it is good to > know about stuff like that. Thanks, Stuart, I hadn't seen that > before! > > Regards > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] New Language > > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want > something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just > the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 13:45:46 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 11:45:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Are you already putting your kids to work?? At their tender ages? Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:51 AM, jwcolby wrote: > An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/26/2011 12:01 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> Gawd, how times have changed. ?When my son was small, it was an >> etch-a-sketch!! >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. >>> >>> Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be >>> it. >>> >>> Thanks Stuart. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>>> >>>> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who want >>>> something easy to >>>> use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: >>>> >>>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >>>> >>>> :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 26 16:13:25 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 17:13:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8E56F5.8080800@colbyconsulting.com> Tender age? He turned 10 today. Time to get a job I say! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/26/2011 2:45 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Are you already putting your kids to work?? At their tender ages? > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:51 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun Mar 27 10:52:10 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 08:52:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8E56F5.8080800@colbyconsulting.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E56F5.8080800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Oh, now I understand. He's entering the ugly stage of little boy-hood, so putting him to work is the reasonable remedy! LOL Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 2:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Tender age? ?He turned 10 today. ?Time to get a job I say! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/26/2011 2:45 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> Are you already putting your kids to work?? ?At their tender ages? >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:51 AM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 09:56:20 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 07:56:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> Message-ID: <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on Surrogate keys. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 Jim From jerbach at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:11:34 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:11:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Message-ID: Hello - I have 2 questions for you all. 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing this? 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of thing, please let me know. Thank you! Janet Erbach IT/Office Manager Natural Healthy Concepts www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:13:57 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:13:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) Susan H. > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:19:55 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:19:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question References: Message-ID: <3F133DA9BBCC417CB51AD08071A0508C@SusanHarkins> > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - > I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' > data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? ==========A few questions: 1.) Is the customizations database an Access database? 2.) Are you sure you're actually connecting to the customization database? Regards, Susan H. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Mar 28 10:40:28 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:40:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> I wrote a rather elaborate piece of code behind an Excel 2003 spreadsheet to update data in an Access mdb. Actually the project was to export data from the Access based accounting system to a real complex spreadsheet, which would allow the user to tweak all the numbers, then, when she got it the way she wanted it, import the data from the spreadsheet back into the Access back end. It was all sorts of fun. So I've got the framework and techniques. I'll give it a shot. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Hello - I have 2 questions for you all. 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing this? 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of thing, please let me know. Thank you! Janet Erbach IT/Office Manager Natural Healthy Concepts www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 28 10:42:23 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:42:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4D90AC5F.5020804@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, Susan Susan Susan. Inserting yourself directly in the line of fire! ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/28/2011 11:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:53:07 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:53:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> <4D90AC5F.5020804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: "I can shoot straight, if I don't have to aim too far!" :) Susan H. > LOL, Susan Susan Susan. Inserting yourself directly in the line of fire! > ;) > >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur >> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 11:04:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:04:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Janet: If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a different named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > options > view). Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that it is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and force the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the link-manager etc... Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the DB is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows display can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec macro is run. Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database window" is checked. It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked so just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a number of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be all sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an objects properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple of hours to remove. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Hello - I have 2 questions for you all. 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing this? 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of thing, please let me know. Thank you! Janet Erbach IT/Office Manager Natural Healthy Concepts www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 11:07:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:07:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <59AB58680055496FA846A691B01C5353@creativesystemdesigns.com> Come on Susan, you are not being strident or offensive enough. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) Susan H. > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 11:48:14 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:48:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around the edges in here. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. > > >> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on >> Surrogate keys. >> >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur >> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Mar 28 12:11:18 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:11:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant><11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <439CD325EED644DDB137F9591CEBD9F7@HAL9005> Except if you see Colby in a helicopter, you might want to walk away quietly...(cf. archives under 'Colbyizing") R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 9:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around the edges in here. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. > > >> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) >> on Surrogate keys. >> >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-betwee >> n-a-sur >> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 28 12:24:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:24:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <439CD325EED644DDB137F9591CEBD9F7@HAL9005> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant><11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> <439CD325EED644DDB137F9591CEBD9F7@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D90C439.9020303@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. Who, *me*? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/28/2011 1:11 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Except if you see Colby in a helicopter, you might want to walk away > quietly...(cf. archives under 'Colbyizing") > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 9:48 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys > > Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around the > edges in here. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: >> I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) >> >> Susan H. >> >> >>> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) >>> on Surrogate keys. >>> >>> >>> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-betwee >>> n-a-sur >>> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 12:30:13 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:30:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant><11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4E4CFECF9F60434EB83A7E8E951FD870@SusanHarkins> No, not you guys -- TR readers. ;) Some have been a tad snarky lately. :) It's been a large hard winter! Susan H. > Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around > the edges in here. From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 14:32:03 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:32:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> Dan, et al. The issue is the report. The original report was quite complex. There are 19 question types, which means a section could be all one type or a combination of several types. The original report had sub-reports for each type and when printed would unhide and expand the appropriate sub-report. The 20th sub-report is a complex report that has a sub-report for each question type. When the report is printed the sub-reports would unhide and expand as needed. Sometimes a sub-report could be used two or more times in different sequences to create a section. The section with more than one question type I call "various" because of various types of questions. The first 3 sections of the questionnaire have various questions. For example, Q1 is a 3-response question with custom responses, Q2 is a fill-in question, Q3 is a 5-response question with custom response, Q4 is self-lookup question with a combo box, Q4 is a two response question with custom response, etc. I separated the first report and made 20 different reports. So when printing, it cycles through the reports and prints them as needed. I have found that to able to print the entire questionnaire, I need to print each section in succession because each section is a different report. If I open the print menu by-itself the entire questionnaire prints. If I "log in" as a researcher, I get the same problem when it attempts to print the second section report. I'm getting closer to solving this conundrum. But, I'm sure where to go from here. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jerbach at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 16:07:50 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:07:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> References: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: Rocky - Thanks! I'm waiting to hear back from the tech temp agency to see if she will truly consider a remote arrangement. (This tech agency is kind of stuffy, and I'm waiting for her to get back to me as to whether or not she can get permission to persue a remote arrangement.) How was Bahrain? San Diego is GORGEOUS. And I got drunk for the first time in 24 years in downtown LaJolla. Must have been the smell of all that money on the air...:) Sorry I missed meeting up with you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I wrote a rather elaborate piece of code behind an Excel 2003 spreadsheet > to > update data in an Access mdb. > > Actually the project was to export data from the Access based accounting > system to a real complex spreadsheet, which would allow the user to tweak > all the numbers, then, when she got it the way she wanted it, import the > data from the spreadsheet back into the Access back end. > > It was all sorts of fun. So I've got the framework and techniques. I'll > give it a shot. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of > thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jerbach at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 16:10:55 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:10:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim - I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a different > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > options > view). > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that it > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > force > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > link-manager etc... > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the DB > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows display > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > macro is run. > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database window" > is checked. > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked so > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a number > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > all > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > objects > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple of > hours to remove. > > HTH > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of > thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Mar 28 16:29:04 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:29:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <44D5D062343C4F909F75F8555F0076F3@HAL9005> Bahrain was an adventure. The work was interesting but the last day I spent with the protesters in Pearl roundabout and went on a protest march with them (child of the 60s - couldn't help myself). Came back with a bunch of work, too! :) Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Rocky - Thanks! I'm waiting to hear back from the tech temp agency to see if she will truly consider a remote arrangement. (This tech agency is kind of stuffy, and I'm waiting for her to get back to me as to whether or not she can get permission to persue a remote arrangement.) How was Bahrain? San Diego is GORGEOUS. And I got drunk for the first time in 24 years in downtown LaJolla. Must have been the smell of all that money on the air...:) Sorry I missed meeting up with you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I wrote a rather elaborate piece of code behind an Excel 2003 > spreadsheet to update data in an Access mdb. > > Actually the project was to export data from the Access based > accounting system to a real complex spreadsheet, which would allow the > user to tweak all the numbers, then, when she got it the way she > wanted it, import the data from the spreadsheet back into the Access back end. > > It was all sorts of fun. So I've got the framework and techniques. > I'll give it a shot. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet > Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: > I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I > install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export > successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my > 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if > it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I > tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there > just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, > and it just won't go! What could be causing this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? > A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind > of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that > type of thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Mar 28 17:18:59 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:18:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant>, <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D910953.9998.13B6433E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Very brave. That'll get her "comment count" up :-) -- Stuart On 28 Mar 2011 at 7:56, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between > -a-sur rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon Mar 28 17:56:46 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:56:46 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ haha, I guess we can all send you some if you really want... :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, 29 March 2011 2:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) Susan H. > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 18:18:17 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:18:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Janet: Without knowing more I would suspect that the main database window has its x and/or y coordinates set off the main viewing area. It is really there just not visible. If you can get to create and edit a form then you also have access to the other database objects by creating a event. Once event has been initiated within the form, you are creating, you can then go and edit that event. This will expose all the other object in the MDB. (Do not quote me on this but there is some old memory that says by pressing it will bring the main database window into view.) Another thing you can do is check out what the macro autoexec does. Just go and select the event section, in the form you have created but this time instead of selecting an event select a macro and pick the "autoexec" macro. Then go in and see if it is making some interest calls...turn them off if need be. (Make sure all the tool bars are displayed etc...) PS: Make sure you have a backup of the anything you change. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Jim - I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a different > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > options > view). > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that it > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > force > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > link-manager etc... > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the DB > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows display > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > macro is run. > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database window" > is checked. > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked so > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a number > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > all > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > objects > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple of > hours to remove. > > HTH > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of > thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 18:22:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:22:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <4D910953.9998.13B6433E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D910953.9998.13B6433E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <6EDFA525E8694320B8DE11BF772C6B3D@creativesystemdesigns.com> I think the bound and unbound subject needs a good article written. ...or what about Microsoft should stop supporting VB code to force all developer to move forward. ...or all SQL developers should require certification before they are even allowed to purchase SQL. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys Very brave. That'll get her "comment count" up :-) -- Stuart On 28 Mar 2011 at 7:56, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between > -a-sur rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 18:33:12 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:33:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) Susan H. >> > haha, I guess we can all send you some if you really want... :) > > > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 29 03:35:39 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:35:39 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: References: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: >> No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) But you do challenge them now, don 't you? :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: 29 ????? 2011 ?. 3:33 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) Susan H. >> > haha, I guess we can all send you some if you really want... :) > > > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 07:53:04 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:53:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <23888176F2534436B0DD9CBB49B53E2D@SusanHarkins> Shamil, I tried to not be bossy. ;) Susan H. >>> No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) > But you do challenge them now, don 't you? :) > From dbdoug at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 10:37:14 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:37:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] pdf output Message-ID: Hello All: I'm using the Lebans code to output pdfs directly from Access. For flexibility, I'd like to use a Where string when the report is generated, but Lebans uses Docmd.OutputTo acReport.... to get his snapshot file, and there is no WhereString parameter. Is there an easy way of doing this, or am I going to have to rework the recordsource for the report before I call the pdf output code? Thanks, Doug From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 29 10:41:01 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:41:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] pdf output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm using his code as well. And the Where string would be handy. But I always put the filters in the report or modify the record source instead of passing a filter as an argument. So I didn't have to solve this one. I'm still having the issue of the code not working when I try it from a second form unless I generate one pdf from the first form - then the second one works. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] pdf output Hello All: I'm using the Lebans code to output pdfs directly from Access. For flexibility, I'd like to use a Where string when the report is generated, but Lebans uses Docmd.OutputTo acReport.... to get his snapshot file, and there is no WhereString parameter. Is there an easy way of doing this, or am I going to have to rework the recordsource for the report before I call the pdf output code? Thanks, Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 11:31:21 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:31:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] pdf output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Rocky. I'm generating these pdfs without operator intervention, so I guess it's going to be recordsource modification. Doug On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 8:41 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I'm using his code as well. ?And the Where string would be handy. ?But I > always put the filters in the report or modify the record source instead of > passing a filter as an argument. ?So I didn't have to solve this one. > > I'm still having the issue of the code not working when I try it from a > second form unless I generate one pdf from the first form - then the second > one works. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:37 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] pdf output > > Hello All: > > I'm using the Lebans code to output pdfs directly from Access. ?For > flexibility, I'd like to use a Where string when the report is generated, > but Lebans uses Docmd.OutputTo acReport.... to get his snapshot file, and > there is no WhereString parameter. > > Is there an easy way of doing this, or am I going to have to rework the > recordsource for the report before I call the pdf output code? > > Thanks, > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jerbach at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 13:31:28 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:31:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim - You're right about 'F11'. I use that all the time. I'll try you're suggestion about the autoexec...thank you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > Without knowing more I would suspect that the main database window has its > x > and/or y coordinates set off the main viewing area. It is really there just > not visible. > > If you can get to create and edit a form then you also have access to the > other database objects by creating a event. Once event has been initiated > within the form, you are creating, you can then go and edit that event. > This > will expose all the other object in the MDB. (Do not quote me on this but > there is some old memory that says by pressing it will bring the main > database window into view.) > > Another thing you can do is check out what the macro autoexec does. Just go > and select the event section, in the form you have created but this time > instead of selecting an event select a macro and pick the "autoexec" macro. > Then go in and see if it is making some interest calls...turn them off if > need be. (Make sure all the tool bars are displayed etc...) > > PS: Make sure you have a backup of the anything you change. > > HTH > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Jim - > > I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I > display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this > 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it > as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any > active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of > Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption > issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... > > Janet > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi Janet: > > > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a > different > > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > > options > view). > > > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that > it > > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > > force > > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > > link-manager etc... > > > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the > DB > > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows > display > > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > > macro is run. > > > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database > window" > > is checked. > > > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked > so > > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a > number > > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > > all > > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > > objects > > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple > of > > hours to remove. > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > > > Hello - > > > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I > install > > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - > I > > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' > data > > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > > temporary > > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into > this > > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > > this? > > > > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type > of > > thing, please let me know. > > > > Thank you! > > > > Janet Erbach > > IT/Office Manager > > Natural Healthy Concepts > > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 29 15:25:31 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:25:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4212BDA0E73B4ABF978E717FE30FB576@creativesystemdesigns.com> Keep me posted Janet. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Jim - You're right about 'F11'. I use that all the time. I'll try you're suggestion about the autoexec...thank you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > Without knowing more I would suspect that the main database window has its > x > and/or y coordinates set off the main viewing area. It is really there just > not visible. > > If you can get to create and edit a form then you also have access to the > other database objects by creating a event. Once event has been initiated > within the form, you are creating, you can then go and edit that event. > This > will expose all the other object in the MDB. (Do not quote me on this but > there is some old memory that says by pressing it will bring the main > database window into view.) > > Another thing you can do is check out what the macro autoexec does. Just go > and select the event section, in the form you have created but this time > instead of selecting an event select a macro and pick the "autoexec" macro. > Then go in and see if it is making some interest calls...turn them off if > need be. (Make sure all the tool bars are displayed etc...) > > PS: Make sure you have a backup of the anything you change. > > HTH > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Jim - > > I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I > display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this > 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it > as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any > active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of > Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption > issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... > > Janet > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi Janet: > > > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a > different > > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > > options > view). > > > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that > it > > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > > force > > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > > link-manager etc... > > > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the > DB > > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows > display > > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > > macro is run. > > > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database > window" > > is checked. > > > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked > so > > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a > number > > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > > all > > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > > objects > > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple > of > > hours to remove. > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > > > Hello - > > > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I > install > > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - > I > > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' > data > > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > > temporary > > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into > this > > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > > this? > > > > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type > of > > thing, please let me know. > > > > Thank you! > > > > Janet Erbach > > IT/Office Manager > > Natural Healthy Concepts > > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 30 10:29:27 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:29:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule Message-ID: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 30 10:30:04 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:30:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys rule Message-ID: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Mar 30 10:41:51 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:41:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Sure do... they rule the 5th level of hell... ;) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 10:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 11:05:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:05:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: ...But where... in a museum? Sorry could not resist. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 8:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 11:53:06 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:53:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: siiiigghhhhhhh, and I thought I was converting him.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 8:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule > > > ;) > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 12:04:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:04:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Sometimes, but only in Access. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:29 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > ;) > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 12:05:05 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:05:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Are you feeling like starting something this morning? Not that I disagree with you. I'm a firm surrogate key believer. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:30 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > ;) > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 30 12:15:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:15:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys rule In-Reply-To: References: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D936539.3020101@colbyconsulting.com> It's been quiet for days. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/30/2011 1:05 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Are you feeling like starting something this morning? Not that I > disagree with you. I'm a firm surrogate key believer. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:30 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> >> ;) >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 14:08:28 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:08:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All: I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the question. On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and back on again the status field updates correctly. The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor some event within code to know that there has been a change to the form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be performed. So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be performed at this point. It does seem that this should be very simple. TIA Jim From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 14:18:44 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:18:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the right event Hi All: I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the question. On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and back on again the status field updates correctly. The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor some event within code to know that there has been a change to the form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be performed. So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be performed at this point. It does seem that this should be very simple. TIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 30 15:01:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 06:01:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4D938C12.15257.1D84FF4F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If Form 2 opened from Form 1? If so, open Form 2 as Modal and trigger the refresh immediately after the docmd.Openform "Form2"? -- Stuart On 30 Mar 2011 at 12:08, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi All: > > I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. > > I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the > question. > > On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. > Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in > form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and > back on again the status field updates correctly. > > The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor > some event within code to know that there has been a change to the > form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be > performed. > > So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to > form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be > performed at this point. > > It does seem that this should be very simple. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 18:51:53 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:51:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> References: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> Thanks for the help Jim and Stuart It was not as simple as initially planned but finally a hack that works: (Believe me, I tried ever other method first...and this is the only one that really works.) '1. Turn off display '2. Set focus to the calling form '3. Save current record position on calling form '4. Set field in calling form to required value '5. Force update to calling form by 'refreshing' record source '6. Position back to appropriate calling form record '7. set focus to modular form '8. Turn on display Dim bolStatusFlag Dim lngInvoiceID As Long Dim rs As Object bolStatusFlag = Me.Closed Application.Echo False [Forms]![Invoice Header].SetFocus lngInvoiceID = [Forms]![Invoice Header].[InvoiceID] ' Set one field... [Forms]![Invoice Header].[Work Description].Locked = bolStatusFlag [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordSource = "Invoice Open" Set rs = [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordsetClone rs.FindFirst "[InvoiceID] = " & lngInvoiceID If Not rs.EOF Then [Forms]![Invoice Header].Bookmark = rs.Bookmark Me.SetFocus Application.Echo True Hope this helps somebody. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right event Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the right event Hi All: I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the question. On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and back on again the status field updates correctly. The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor some event within code to know that there has been a change to the form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be performed. So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be performed at this point. It does seem that this should be very simple. TIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 30 19:03:13 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:03:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com>, <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D93C4C1.5764.1E626D90@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Do you need Form 1 visible when Form 2 is activated? I frequently only let my users see one form at a time. If they don't need to see it, I would just hide Form 1 when Form 2 is opened and unhide it when form 2 is closed rather than turning Echo off. On 30 Mar 2011 at 16:51, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Thanks for the help Jim and Stuart > > It was not as simple as initially planned but finally a hack that > works: (Believe me, I tried ever other method first...and this is the > only one that really works.) > > '1. Turn off display > '2. Set focus to the calling form > '3. Save current record position on calling form > '4. Set field in calling form to required value > '5. Force update to calling form by 'refreshing' record source > '6. Position back to appropriate calling form record > '7. set focus to modular form > '8. Turn on display > > Dim bolStatusFlag > Dim lngInvoiceID As Long > Dim rs As Object > > bolStatusFlag = Me.Closed > > Application.Echo False > [Forms]![Invoice Header].SetFocus > > lngInvoiceID = [Forms]![Invoice Header].[InvoiceID] > > ' Set one field... > [Forms]![Invoice Header].[Work Description].Locked = bolStatusFlag > > [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordSource = "Invoice Open" > > Set rs = [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordsetClone > rs.FindFirst "[InvoiceID] = " & lngInvoiceID > If Not rs.EOF Then [Forms]![Invoice Header].Bookmark = rs.Bookmark > > Me.SetFocus > Application.Echo True > > > Hope this helps somebody. ;-) > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right > event > > Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the > right event > > Hi All: > > I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. > > I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the > question. > > On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. > Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in > form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and > back on again the status field updates correctly. > > The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor > some event within code to know that there has been a change to the > form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be > performed. > > So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to > form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be > performed at this point. > > It does seem that this should be very simple. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Mar 30 19:05:53 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:05:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> Good Luck! By the time you're done with this we'll know who to ask about Access Reporting! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Dan, et al. The issue is the report. The original report was quite complex. There are 19 question types, which means a section could be all one type or a combination of several types. The original report had sub-reports for each type and when printed would unhide and expand the appropriate sub-report. The 20th sub-report is a complex report that has a sub-report for each question type. When the report is printed the sub-reports would unhide and expand as needed. Sometimes a sub-report could be used two or more times in different sequences to create a section. The section with more than one question type I call "various" because of various types of questions. The first 3 sections of the questionnaire have various questions. For example, Q1 is a 3-response question with custom responses, Q2 is a fill-in question, Q3 is a 5-response question with custom response, Q4 is self-lookup question with a combo box, Q4 is a two response question with custom response, etc. I separated the first report and made 20 different reports. So when printing, it cycles through the reports and prints them as needed. I have found that to able to print the entire questionnaire, I need to print each section in succession because each section is a different report. If I open the print menu by-itself the entire questionnaire prints. If I "log in" as a researcher, I get the same problem when it attempts to print the second section report. I'm getting closer to solving this conundrum. But, I'm sure where to go from here. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 19:41:48 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:41:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net><4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <848BE0580B2347C0BA0F2A6CC4EF1F88@HomePC> Thanks, I'm not so sure about being the one to ask about reports. In frustration of not being able to get it done. I've moved on to something else to give the grey matter a rest on the issue. Maybe in a day or two with "fresh" eyes I'll see something. We'll see. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Good Luck! By the time you're done with this we'll know who to ask about Access Reporting! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Dan, et al. The issue is the report. The original report was quite complex. There are 19 question types, which means a section could be all one type or a combination of several types. The original report had sub-reports for each type and when printed would unhide and expand the appropriate sub-report. The 20th sub-report is a complex report that has a sub-report for each question type. When the report is printed the sub-reports would unhide and expand as needed. Sometimes a sub-report could be used two or more times in different sequences to create a section. The section with more than one question type I call "various" because of various types of questions. The first 3 sections of the questionnaire have various questions. For example, Q1 is a 3-response question with custom responses, Q2 is a fill-in question, Q3 is a 5-response question with custom response, Q4 is self-lookup question with a combo box, Q4 is a two response question with custom response, etc. I separated the first report and made 20 different reports. So when printing, it cycles through the reports and prints them as needed. I have found that to able to print the entire questionnaire, I need to print each section in succession because each section is a different report. If I open the print menu by-itself the entire questionnaire prints. If I "log in" as a researcher, I get the same problem when it attempts to print the second section report. I'm getting closer to solving this conundrum. But, I'm sure where to go from here. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 19:47:52 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:47:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <848BE0580B2347C0BA0F2A6CC4EF1F88@HomePC> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> <848BE0580B2347C0BA0F2A6CC4EF1F88@HomePC> Message-ID: Reports with nested subreports can be quite a problem in Access AND in .Net. You can use subreport controls that are not bound to a particular dataset (no master/child links set). That allows you to control which subreports are presented and what the criteria is from code in the parent report/subreport. It isn't simple, but it does get around the problems of all the layers of queries that are run when you process a bound report with nested subs. You also have to be very careful about which event you use, since some of them occur too late to serve any purpose. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 5:41 PM, jm.hwsn wrote: > Thanks, I'm not so sure about being the one to ask about reports. > In frustration of not being able to get it done. > I've moved on to something else to give the grey matter a rest on the issue. > Maybe in a day or two with "fresh" eyes I'll see something. > We'll see. > Thanks, > Jim > From dbdoug at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 21:58:46 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:58:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Message-ID: I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 30 22:06:24 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:06:24 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103310306.p2V36YDm016658@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Stuart McLachlan posted a link warning of this issue on here back in Late Feb, Early March. I am sure the thread below has grown since then, but it was well worth a read back then. '--- copy of email ---- It seems that if you are using ADO and compile under Win7 SP1, your application may no longer work on previous Winodws versions :-( <> '---- End copy ----- cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, 31 March 2011 1:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 22:08:59 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:08:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 30 23:07:23 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:07:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4D93FDFB.32424.1F41F7AA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The other gotcha is if you are using references to 32 bit DLLs. where you may be runing on Oiffice 32bit and 64bit You have to do check the version and use PtrSafe something like this: #If VBA7 Then Declare PtrSafe Function GetUserName Lib "advapi32.dll" Alias "GetUserNameA" (ByVal lpBuffer As String, nSize As Long) As Long #Else Declare Function GetUserName Lib "advapi32.dll" Alias "GetUserNameA" (ByVal lpBuffer As String, nSize As Long) As Long #End If -- Stuart On 30 Mar 2011 at 20:08, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are > being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because > backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we > can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to > watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had > written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has > been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message > indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of > a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I > putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to > work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also > a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn > Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 > SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m > running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time > to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 23:52:34 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:52:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: <4D93C4C1.5764.1E626D90@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D93C4C1.5764.1E626D90@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: No, Form 1 or the caller form stays invisible and the display was turned off so the screen wouldn't flash when moving from form to form...even if the form is invisible there is a small screen shimmer when processing unless the echo is stopped. I tend to be a little overly fussy about these thing. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right event Do you need Form 1 visible when Form 2 is activated? I frequently only let my users see one form at a time. If they don't need to see it, I would just hide Form 1 when Form 2 is opened and unhide it when form 2 is closed rather than turning Echo off. On 30 Mar 2011 at 16:51, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Thanks for the help Jim and Stuart > > It was not as simple as initially planned but finally a hack that > works: (Believe me, I tried ever other method first...and this is the > only one that really works.) > > '1. Turn off display > '2. Set focus to the calling form > '3. Save current record position on calling form > '4. Set field in calling form to required value > '5. Force update to calling form by 'refreshing' record source > '6. Position back to appropriate calling form record > '7. set focus to modular form > '8. Turn on display > > Dim bolStatusFlag > Dim lngInvoiceID As Long > Dim rs As Object > > bolStatusFlag = Me.Closed > > Application.Echo False > [Forms]![Invoice Header].SetFocus > > lngInvoiceID = [Forms]![Invoice Header].[InvoiceID] > > ' Set one field... > [Forms]![Invoice Header].[Work Description].Locked = bolStatusFlag > > [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordSource = "Invoice Open" > > Set rs = [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordsetClone > rs.FindFirst "[InvoiceID] = " & lngInvoiceID > If Not rs.EOF Then [Forms]![Invoice Header].Bookmark = rs.Bookmark > > Me.SetFocus > Application.Echo True > > > Hope this helps somebody. ;-) > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right > event > > Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the > right event > > Hi All: > > I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. > > I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the > question. > > On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. > Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in > form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and > back on again the status field updates correctly. > > The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor > some event within code to know that there has been a change to the > form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be > performed. > > So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to > form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be > performed at this point. > > It does seem that this should be very simple. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 00:01:54 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 22:01:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488C6622A8F54A808D4E7AA886981C89@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Doug: Good one... Another good reason to keep that old XP box around so you can support your XP using clients... of which I have many. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 31 08:05:42 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:05:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just the same as Joe average is being pressured to switch to Windows 7 just to run IE9. It's all about M$ revenue. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 11:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 09:42:56 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:42:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 09:46:30 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:46:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Speaking of the .Net world.... I ran into something the other day in VB.Net In VB 6 (or VBA) if I had a custom class, let's say like this: Public SomeStringProperty As String Dim intSomeNumericValue as Long Property Get SomeNumericValue() as Long SomeNumericValue=intSomeNumericValue End Property I considered both 'SomeStringProperty' and 'SomeNumericValue' as properties of the class. VB.Net does not. If it is defined with a Public variablename As SomeType VB.Net considers it a 'field'. Interesting. Not that it makes a whole hell of a difference now that I know, it drove me nuts while trying to put the 'properties' of a class into a combo box, and couldn't for the life of me figure why it kept returning an empty array! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 10:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 11:30:18 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:30:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 12:33:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:33:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Message-ID: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> Wait, are you calling Drew a turkey??? Charlotte Foust Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Jim Lawrence wrote: >Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) > >Jim > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work >just fine...... > >Web Front End.... > >;) > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele >Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written >using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working >for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO >wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and >I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the >references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this >is probably an example of a known problem: > >http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > >There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in >the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, >an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running >Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. >I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the >problem. > >I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > >Doug >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >person or entity >to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >Business >Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >the sender >immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or >hard copy. >You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >dissemination, >or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information >by persons >or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 12:42:52 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:42:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? Message-ID: Dear List: A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for the new matter. No problem. But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. Anyway, can this be done? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 31 12:47:29 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:47:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Hi Doug, Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running ADO is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on W7SP1? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 12:55:38 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:55:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Message-ID: Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:09:32 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:09:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: I believe so, from reading the discussions. I was able fix the problem by removing the ADO reference on the client machine, compiling (got errors on missing reference) then reinstating the reference and compiling once more. I'm not sure if the first compile step does anything, but it doesn't do any harm. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, > and got it to work. ?Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:17:57 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:17:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Sorry, I mis-read your post. I just tried running the fixed client version (compiled on W7 no SP1) on my computer (W7SP1) without re-compiling and it ran correctly without any errors. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, > and got it to work. ?Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:21:24 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:21:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional > setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the > date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional settings on my box to > U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, > tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND > DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date > is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different syntax for > this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 13:21:28 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:21:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your desktop. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? Dear List: A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for the new matter. No problem. But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. Anyway, can this be done? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:27:20 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:27:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <298669879D2F41AAB1033D9EDD42ED74@BPCS> I am having similar problems with 2 clients. I just moved an ADP Access 2003 from my development machine (Win7 64 SP1 ) to an XP machine, decompiled it, set the reference to activex 2.6 from 2.7 recompiled, repair and compacted and shipped it. It now works on one machine that it did not work on. They will let me know later about the other machines as people start to use the application. What is really strange it always worked on some of their machines and we were not able to find any differences in versions or references. The second client is running it on Windows Server 2003. I have access to it using LogMeIn so will experiment tonight to see if changing the active x reference, or decompile compile on an XP machine or both fixes it. Many other people seem to be removing SP 1 from their development machines, but I'd rather not go backwards, course I've been known to cut off my nose to spite my face. If I learn anything new tonight I'll let you all know. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug Steele" Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:09 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I believe so, from reading the discussions. I was able fix the problem by removing the ADO reference on the client machine, compiling (got errors on missing reference) then reinstating the reference and compiling once more. I'm not sure if the first compile step does anything, but it doesn't do any harm. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running > ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written > using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and > re-compiling, > and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 13:29:41 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:29:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Aha! Thank you. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can it be done? Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your desktop. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? Dear List: A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for the new matter. No problem. But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. Anyway, can this be done? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 13:34:32 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:34:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 13:37:11 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:37:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Actually, when it comes to a web interfaced app, using an .mdb for a backend is just fine. There are only a few times where I would actually recommend a SQL Server Backend: Size limitation. Needs to have another non-web based front end. Needs triggers. Other than that, an .mdb is just fine. Uses less over head, can run just as fast, if not faster, etc. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 13:40:04 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 22:40:04 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 13:49:31 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:49:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 14:08:17 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:08:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> References: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> Message-ID: Ever tangled with a turkey? ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Wait, are you calling Drew a turkey??? Charlotte Foust Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Jim Lawrence wrote: >Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) > >Jim > > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 31 14:19:56 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:19:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Message-ID: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two e-mails for each post. Jim. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 14:22:55 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:22:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? In-Reply-To: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> References: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Message-ID: We're just trying to make sure you read what's important! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:20 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two e-mails for each post. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 14:37:05 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:37:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? In-Reply-To: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> References: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Message-ID: No. Not me. No. Not me. Thought I would save time answering them both. ;-) GK On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? > > Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two > e-mails for each post. > > Jim. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 15:54:14 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:54:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> References: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> Message-ID: <82074F87D17547B884F8B5DEF0F70515@creativesystemdesigns.com> Does he look like a turkey to you? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Wait, are you calling Drew a turkey??? Charlotte Foust Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Jim Lawrence wrote: >Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) > >Jim > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work >just fine...... > >Web Front End.... > >;) > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele >Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written >using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working >for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO >wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and >I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the >references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this >is probably an example of a known problem: > >http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > >There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in >the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, >an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running >Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. >I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the >problem. > >I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > >Doug >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >person or entity >to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >Business >Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >the sender >immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or >hard copy. >You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >dissemination, >or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information >by persons >or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 31 15:59:14 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:59:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? In-Reply-To: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> References: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Message-ID: <000001cbefe6$7ed64800$7c82d800$@winhaven.net> Hi Jim, Please contact Bryan off-list and see if he can help you through this: carbonnb at gmail.com John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:20 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two e-mails for each post. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 16:00:33 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:00:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <298669879D2F41AAB1033D9EDD42ED74@BPCS> References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> <298669879D2F41AAB1033D9EDD42ED74@BPCS> Message-ID: <3DC08DF7E4AF4E8E82B48E9BA91BD48A@creativesystemdesigns.com> I have to do that with a number of clients. Upload the source, remove the references, re-add the reference and then compile...two passes usually solves the issues. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I am having similar problems with 2 clients. I just moved an ADP Access 2003 from my development machine (Win7 64 SP1 ) to an XP machine, decompiled it, set the reference to activex 2.6 from 2.7 recompiled, repair and compacted and shipped it. It now works on one machine that it did not work on. They will let me know later about the other machines as people start to use the application. What is really strange it always worked on some of their machines and we were not able to find any differences in versions or references. The second client is running it on Windows Server 2003. I have access to it using LogMeIn so will experiment tonight to see if changing the active x reference, or decompile compile on an XP machine or both fixes it. Many other people seem to be removing SP 1 from their development machines, but I'd rather not go backwards, course I've been known to cut off my nose to spite my face. If I learn anything new tonight I'll let you all know. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug Steele" Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:09 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I believe so, from reading the discussions. I was able fix the problem by removing the ADO reference on the client machine, compiling (got errors on missing reference) then reinstating the reference and compiling once more. I'm not sure if the first compile step does anything, but it doesn't do any harm. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running > ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written > using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and > re-compiling, > and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 16:14:45 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:14:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <306D1109AFF8409ABCC85B353B18FDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Drew: I have never had any bad experiences from an Access BE web site but according to one of the trainers from Wintellect, a Microsoft bases training company, from which I took a week of lecture course, a few years ago, at Redmond; he said the an Access BE was very dangerous because it was prone to insertion attacked. He said he could hack any Access BE in 5 minutes. Whether that was true or not I have no idea but I have never used an Access BE, for a web site, since. On a pinch I have used MySQL and now MS SQL Express when no major SQL DB BE is available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Actually, when it comes to a web interfaced app, using an .mdb for a backend is just fine. There are only a few times where I would actually recommend a SQL Server Backend: Size limitation. Needs to have another non-web based front end. Needs triggers. Other than that, an .mdb is just fine. Uses less over head, can run just as fast, if not faster, etc. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 16:20:08 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:20:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: PS: It is interseting as a Redmond training seminar is starting at the MS college at the end of May and Wintellect will be the teachers. http://view.exacttarget.com/?j=fe5d1572706c0d787615&m=ff001675756503&ls=fe32 11737763047a751170&l=feef11747c610d&s=fe961173716c047875&jb=ffcf14&ju=fe2f15 717265047b7c1271 I believe Jeffrey Richter was the trainers who warned against an Access BE so you can always pop him an email and ask hime why and how. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Actually, when it comes to a web interfaced app, using an .mdb for a backend is just fine. There are only a few times where I would actually recommend a SQL Server Backend: Size limitation. Needs to have another non-web based front end. Needs triggers. Other than that, an .mdb is just fine. Uses less over head, can run just as fast, if not faster, etc. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 16:24:10 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:24:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <306D1109AFF8409ABCC85B353B18FDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <306D1109AFF8409ABCC85B353B18FDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hmmm, I would be curious as to how that is done. Actually, the SQL Insertion issue is due to SQL code having comment capabilities, and Access SQL doesn't allow comments. Plus, for this kind of vulnerability, your code has to literally use client created data directly in an SQL statement, which is a bad habit no matter what database you are using. I am curious as to how the .mdb would be setup to allow an 'insertion attack'. In the web interfaces I have designed, the backend is not visible in any way, except for the pages I create. Part one of that is to NOT have the .mdb in a visible location on the webserver. It is accessible to IIS, but not the user. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Hi Drew: I have never had any bad experiences from an Access BE web site but according to one of the trainers from Wintellect, a Microsoft bases training company, from which I took a week of lecture course, a few years ago, at Redmond; he said the an Access BE was very dangerous because it was prone to insertion attacked. He said he could hack any Access BE in 5 minutes. Whether that was true or not I have no idea but I have never used an Access BE, for a web site, since. On a pinch I have used MySQL and now MS SQL Express when no major SQL DB BE is available. Jim The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 16:36:42 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 07:36:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4D94F3EA.16525.2302A4BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Wouldn't that make every other form in the same application topmost as well? On 31 Mar 2011 at 13:21, Drew Wutka wrote: > Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do > this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are > subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than > regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will > put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the > ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access > window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your > desktop. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? > > Dear List: > > A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time > keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various > clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer > changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and > starts running the clock for the new matter. > > No problem. > > But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer > is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch > their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to > go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen > windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I > guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd > want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the > phone - things like that. > > Anyway, can this be done? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 16:40:02 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:40:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: <4D94F3EA.16525.2302A4BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4D94F3EA.16525.2302A4BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Yes, but only if they were open and set as 'popup'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can it be done? Wouldn't that make every other form in the same application topmost as well? On 31 Mar 2011 at 13:21, Drew Wutka wrote: > Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do > this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are > subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than > regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will > put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the > ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access > window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your > desktop. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? > > Dear List: > > A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time > keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various > clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer > changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and > starts running the clock for the new matter. > > No problem. > > But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer > is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch > their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to > go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen > windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I > guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd > want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the > phone - things like that. > > Anyway, can this be done? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 16:40:52 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 07:40:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> References: , , <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D94F4E4.2878.2306749A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You need make the Format "mm/dd/yy" not "dd/mm/yy" But I generally do it like this instead: DueDate >=DateValue("' & txtGEDueDate & "') AND .... -- Stuart On 31 Mar 2011 at 11:34, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to > mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table > using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various > filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I > send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume > from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is > dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. > and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO > tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) > SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to > filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of > the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in > tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why > doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax > for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 16:58:24 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 01:58:24 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 17:39:59 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:39:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: That is, unless the backend may be SQL Server, in which case, the delimiter is a single quote. We used to run into that issue in .Net, so we built a function to return the date string formatted with the correct delimiter depending on which database was in use. Easy enough to create a function to format any date to US format as well. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Rocky -- > Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be > enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 17:41:06 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:41:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: He's trying to reinvent all the timer programs already on the market. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping > form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal > matters. ?So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current > matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for > the new matter. > > No problem. > > But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is > working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their > timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to > the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and > finding the access app would be awkward for them. ?I guess if a lawyer is > working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from > the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. > > Anyway, can this be done? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 17:41:57 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 02:41:57 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter References: Message-ID: Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Mar 31 18:00:48 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:00:48 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> Message-ID: <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Rocky, To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:03:08 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:03:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: Shamil: When I create those SQL strings I usually load them into a text box on the form before I execute them so I can see what it looks like and copy it out to a query if I need to run it. Stuart suggest DateValue. Better or worse than Format? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Mar 31 18:05:08 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 01:05:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: If supposed to be a poll then: Bound form - no & yes (depends) Surrogate keys - yes (always) Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af jwcolby Sendt: 30. marts 2011 17:29 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Bound forms rule ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:06:22 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:06:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 18:07:33 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:07:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Actually I think it is the Japanese that got it right with YYYYMMDD On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I > process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory > the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, > regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of > "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date > format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and > adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of > the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, > tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND > DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in > the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > Dear List: > > > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional > > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records > with no date filtering. > > > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. > > > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > > > Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different > > syntax for this filter? > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is > intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any > review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in > reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete > this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or > distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the > permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Mar 31 18:20:40 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:20:40 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Rocky, Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to align like this you get around the regional issues. '========================================= iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") iM = Format(Now(), "mm") iD = Format(Now(), "dd") dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) gstrSQL = vbnullstring gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" ' do what ever here with gstrSQL '========================================= -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 18:38:43 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 09:38:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> References: , <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D951083.4367.23725895@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Or you can replace your entire code example with: gstrSQL = "SELECT" & _ " pk_lngFYPID" & _ " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" & _ " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" & _ " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" & _ " WHERE dteCalDate = Date()" or if you want a variable date: dteMyDate = Date() gstrSQL = "SELECT" & _ " pk_lngFYPID" & _ " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" & _ " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" & _ " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" & _ " WHERE dteCalDate = DateValue('" & dteMyDate & "')" On 1 Apr 2011 at 10:20, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Rocky, > > Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to > align like this you get around the regional issues. > > '========================================= > > iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") > iM = Format(Now(), "mm") > iD = Format(Now(), "dd") > > dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) > > gstrSQL = vbnullstring > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" > > ' do what ever here with gstrSQL > > '========================================= > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Shamil: > > I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the > text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Un-American Date Filter > > Rocky -- > > <<>> I should have > written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to > convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it > could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer > as in this case: > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 > > when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result > was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't > conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of > April 1st, 2011... > > And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both > results are "correct": > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 > > I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which > is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) > should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on > systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your > system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get > CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't > know what happens "behind the curtains" > > On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale > you'll get opposite to my first sample results: > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 > > And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using > system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's > textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... > > Hope that helps. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] > Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Hi Rocky -- > > <<< > IT'S WORKING!!! > >>> > Great! > > <<< > Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. > >>> > Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's > criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression > string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? > > I haven't seen your code but from your description using > > Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") > > should be enough, while using > > CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) > > could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" > (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from > its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate > window: > > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 > > Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should > be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Shamil: > > I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S > WORKING!!! > > I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). > Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Thank you one and all. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Un-American Date Filter > > Rocky -- > > SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code > SQL expression should be: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as > dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:44:48 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:44:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Rocky, To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:47:48 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:47:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Clever. That goes in the library. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Rocky, Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to align like this you get around the regional issues. '========================================= iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") iM = Format(Now(), "mm") iD = Format(Now(), "dd") dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) gstrSQL = vbnullstring gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" ' do what ever here with gstrSQL '========================================= -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 19:07:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 10:07:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005>, <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com>, Message-ID: <4D951742.9055.238CB2F4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I remember when New Zealand went metric with its currency back in the '70s. A friend was going overseas and was told by another friend that we were changing over to metric time next and was asked if could he bring back a metric watch. -- Stuart On 31 Mar 2011 at 16:44, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date > I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from > memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as > default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land > of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper > date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were > right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life > for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to > mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table > using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various > filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I > send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume > from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is > dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. > and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date > filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to > filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of > the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in > tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why > doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax > for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Mar 31 19:08:48 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:08:48 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201104010008.p3108tCf004748@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ hahahaha! - Nah, just having a rant about the perils of the crazy imperial measurement that the US still uses. I actually agree with David (and the Japanese). "YYYYMMDD" makes the most sense of all, well to me at least. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Rocky, To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 19:31:37 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:31:37 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <600980DF5A124F1196B53B3C97844B0F@nant> Darryl -- <<< gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" >>> It will not work properly - you have to use it this way: gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & Format(dteNow,"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#))" Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Rocky, Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to align like this you get around the regional issues. '========================================= iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") iM = Format(Now(), "mm") iD = Format(Now(), "dd") dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) gstrSQL = vbnullstring gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" ' do what ever here with gstrSQL '========================================= -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 19:29:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 10:29:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201104010008.p3108tCf004748@databaseadvisors.com> References: , <201104010008.p3108tCf004748@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D951C75.28793.23A10355@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It's not just Japanese, it's the internationally accepted standard in ISO 8601. Unfortunately the UScentric developers of Access and SQL Server ignore the international standard and use an internationally ambiguous format instead. -- Stuart On 1 Apr 2011 at 11:08, Darryl Collins wrote: > hahahaha! - Nah, just having a rant about the perils of the crazy > imperial measurement that the US still uses. I actually agree with > David (and the Japanese). "YYYYMMDD" makes the most sense of all, > well to me at least. > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:45 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date > I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from > memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as > default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land > of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper > date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were > right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life > for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to > mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table > using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various > filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I > send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume > from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is > dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. > and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date > filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to > filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of > the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in > tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why > doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax > for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 19:51:53 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:51:53 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17D5DE47E46B410D9E49229C7380D910@nant> Rocky -- I used DateSerial just to make it clear what date values are used in my samples. You don't need to use DateSerial(...) I suppose. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:06 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 19:51:53 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:51:53 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: <6A91DCB27D504B088721CA90B1438F0F@nant> Rocky -- You don't need DateValue. Are your source textboxes bound to Date type tables' fields? If yes - then just Format( .., "mm/dd/yyyy".) 'quoted' into pair of '#' would be enough. If your source textboxes do have String type values and that values are system locale format dependent then you can use: mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(CDate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(Cate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(DateValue(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or again just mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" all the above will work OK but mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CVDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & DateValue(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" wouldn't be correct as SQL "knows" only American date format and CDate(...), CVDate(....), DateValue(...) will return date formatted using system locale date format... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:03 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: When I create those SQL strings I usually load them into a text box on the form before I execute them so I can see what it looks like and copy it out to a query if I need to run it. Stuart suggest DateValue. Better or worse than Format? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 22:02:09 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:02:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <6A91DCB27D504B088721CA90B1438F0F@nant> References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> <6A91DCB27D504B088721CA90B1438F0F@nant> Message-ID: <00A125070CFA4A229129B0E700EDA75F@HAL9005> Thank YOU! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- You don't need DateValue. Are your source textboxes bound to Date type tables' fields? If yes - then just Format( .., "mm/dd/yyyy".) 'quoted' into pair of '#' would be enough. If your source textboxes do have String type values and that values are system locale format dependent then you can use: mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(CDate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(Cate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(DateValue(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or again just mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" all the above will work OK but mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CVDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & DateValue(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" wouldn't be correct as SQL "knows" only American date format and CDate(...), CVDate(....), DateValue(...) will return date formatted using system locale date format... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:03 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: When I create those SQL strings I usually load them into a text box on the form before I execute them so I can see what it looks like and copy it out to a query if I need to run it. Stuart suggest DateValue. Better or worse than Format? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 23:44:44 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:44:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: <69BC808F88F94EE6876E6453545100DF@creativesystemdesigns.com> How does everyone connect to their data on their SQL server? I have never done any other method than by passing parameters and calling the appropriate SP. Does everyone else actually just send sql strings? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter That is, unless the backend may be SQL Server, in which case, the delimiter is a single quote. We used to run into that issue in .Net, so we built a function to return the date string formatted with the correct delimiter depending on which database was in use. Easy enough to create a function to format any date to US format as well. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Rocky -- > Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be > enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 23:54:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:54:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <8BF2D525226E4849A29667C757BEDFB9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Actually, our government (federal and provincial) uses yyyymmdd which sorts as a string, a number or as a date without any translation. The other date standard they use is dd Mmm yyyy; ie. 01 May 2011 so there is never any confusion between month and day...and again everything is in sequential order. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Actually I think it is the Japanese that got it right with YYYYMMDD On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I > process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory > the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, > regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of > "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date > format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and > adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of > the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, > tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND > DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in > the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > Dear List: > > > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional > > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records > with no date filtering. > > > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. > > > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > > > Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different > > syntax for this filter? > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is > intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any > review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in > reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete > this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or > distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the > permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 07:35:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 08:35:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <7274EFBBD39B45EF8BCD9CF855DDC414@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D6CF626.2050406@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. Anyone binding 7 million records to a form using any data store needs to be in a different business. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 4:13 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > A few small tables and limited number of users it's fine. > > Try over 50 concurrent operators inserting/updating records in tables with up to 7 million > rows with multiple large lookup tables on that data. At the same time have a number of > others users pulling summaries of that data. Not fine. :-) > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 07:42:24 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 08:42:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> My advice for small databases is to simply upsize your big mac and be done with it. Oh... that's my McDonalds order. Upsize your tables to SQL Server and be done with it. Easier said than done in some cases, quite trivial in others. My point really is that for *small* databases (back ends), simple ODBC links to the data sitting in SQL Server will get you there instantly. Then you can play around with more esoteric things like binding the forms and combos to pass through queries and the like - assuming > A2K of course. The bigger problem I found was understanding enough about SQL Server security to make the process painless. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 1:09 PM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > Thank you all again, I am quickly learning many things from your responses. > I am just an old fart trying to play catch up with you guys (Oops and gals). > I am trying to learn how to do things with a SQL Server back end, by trying to duplicate what I can > do with an old MDB back end application. I am finding at times when doing my research on the > Internet that I will read "Do it this way" and then next read "No don't do it that way do it this > way". Also when I complete one task I think "Now how can I do this slighty different", this becomes > quite frustrating, after 2 to 3 hours of reading other forum responses and basically finding no > "hits", I will find some esoteric little example, usually not on topic, that finally simply > describes how to do what I was looking for. > Anyway this is my problem to solve, thank you again for your all your help. Onward and upward. This > is a scary path. > From df.waters at comcast.net Tue Mar 1 07:50:42 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 07:50:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] DoCmd.OutputTo Bug in Library in Access 2007 Message-ID: <001201cbd817$a87ec9c0$f97c5d40$@comcast.net> A couple of weeks ago someone posted a problem with DoCmd.OutputTo, and a few days ago I came across a related bug introduced in Access 2007. I don't have Access 2010 - perhaps someone can see if the problem still exists there. If you have a procedure in a referenced Library file that outputs an object, where the object is stored in the Main file, you'll get an error. This worked fine in Access 2003, but fails in Access 2007. The help files in both versions say that Access looks in the Library first, then in the Main file. This is a workaround that I've tested. As an example, this procedure can be called by either the Library or the Main files, and determines which file the object is in. If the object is in the Main file, then the procedure uses CurrentProject.Application.DoCmd.OutputTo, which bypasses the bug. HTH! Dan '-------------------------------------- Public Sub LibraryOutput(intObjectType As Integer, stgObjectName As String, varOutputFormat As Variant, stgAccessObjectPath As String) '-- Purpose: This will take an Access Object for output from a referenced Library file. _ If the object is in the CurrentProject, then DoCmd.OutputTo won't see that object _ due to a bug introduced in Access 2007. _ However, using CurrentProject.Application.DoCmd.OutputTo in the library will work. Dim aob As AccessObject Dim blnReportInLibrary As Boolean '-- Is this report in the Library? For Each aob In CodeProject.AllReports If aob.Name = stgObjectName Then blnReportInLibrary = True End If Next aob '-- Output report from the file it's in If blnReportInLibrary = True Then DoCmd.OutputTo intObjectType, stgObjectName, varOutputFormat, stgAccessObjectPath Else CurrentProject.Application.DoCmd.OutputTo intObjectType, stgObjectName, varOutputFormat, stgAccessObjectPath End If End Sub '-------------------------------------- From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 09:47:30 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 10:47:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <89146180C53B4BBD9354BF816DB6D5B3@XPS> Not sure if I posted this in the past, but there are some great tid-bits in here on the use of an SQL backend: http://www.jstreettech.com/cartgenie/pg_developerDownloads.asp Download "The best of both worlds..." Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 08:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My advice for small databases is to simply upsize your big mac and be done with it. Oh... that's my McDonalds order. Upsize your tables to SQL Server and be done with it. Easier said than done in some cases, quite trivial in others. My point really is that for *small* databases (back ends), simple ODBC links to the data sitting in SQL Server will get you there instantly. Then you can play around with more esoteric things like binding the forms and combos to pass through queries and the like - assuming > A2K of course. The bigger problem I found was understanding enough about SQL Server security to make the process painless. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 1:09 PM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > Thank you all again, I am quickly learning many things from your responses. > I am just an old fart trying to play catch up with you guys (Oops and gals). > I am trying to learn how to do things with a SQL Server back end, by trying to duplicate what I can > do with an old MDB back end application. I am finding at times when doing my research on the > Internet that I will read "Do it this way" and then next read "No don't do it that way do it this > way". Also when I complete one task I think "Now how can I do this slighty different", this becomes > quite frustrating, after 2 to 3 hours of reading other forum responses and basically finding no > "hits", I will find some esoteric little example, usually not on topic, that finally simply > describes how to do what I was looking for. > Anyway this is my problem to solve, thank you again for your all your help. Onward and upward. This > is a scary path. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 10:41:40 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 08:41:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <004501cbd6c7$6dd32060$49796120$@comcast.net> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE00E@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> <4D6AD2FE.8187.124E85B2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <7274EFBBD39B45EF8BCD9CF855DDC414@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Cringe away, it seems to work just fine. Until I see evidence to the contrary... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/28/2011 10:56 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Years ago I dropped a table in error, on a live MS SQL DB...had about 50 > users on at the time. Added the table and re-populated in about 5 minutes > and only 1 person complained about the BE being slower and having to do a > refresh. Real SQL DBs are very rugged...everything is just queued, cached > and applied through background processes. > > The one thing is that a Real SQL DB is not just another MDB...there is > little or no resemblance other than the both hold data. (Not wanting to get > into a heated discussion, I must admit I cringe every time I hear of someone > attempting a bound MS SQL DB.) > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Both? > > When did you ever have to kick users out of Access or any other multi-user > DBMS to make > data changes? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 10:49:32 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 08:49:32 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <7274EFBBD39B45EF8BCD9CF855DDC414@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6C100D.29834.1725090E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: If John makes his new applications work stability, I will truly be delighted. If they do not, I promise to try to resist the temtation to say "I told you so". ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 1:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server A few small tables and limited number of users it's fine. Try over 50 concurrent operators inserting/updating records in tables with up to 7 million rows with multiple large lookup tables on that data. At the same time have a number of others users pulling summaries of that data. Not fine. :-) -- Stuart On 28 Feb 2011 at 12:01, jwcolby wrote: > Cringe away, it seems to work just fine. Until I see evidence to the > contrary... > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 2/28/2011 10:56 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > Years ago I dropped a table in error, on a live MS SQL DB...had > > about 50 users on at the time. Added the table and re-populated in > > about 5 minutes and only 1 person complained about the BE being > > slower and having to do a refresh. Real SQL DBs are very > > rugged...everything is just queued, cached and applied through > > background processes. > > > > The one thing is that a Real SQL DB is not just another MDB...there > > is little or no resemblance other than the both hold data. (Not > > wanting to get into a heated discussion, I must admit I cringe every > > time I hear of someone attempting a bound MS SQL DB.) > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > > Access and SQL Server > > > > Both? > > > > When did you ever have to kick users out of Access or any other > > multi-user DBMS to make data changes? > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 10:54:52 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 08:54:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <201102282241.p1SMfaRg026442@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <201102282241.p1SMfaRg026442@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: So what is your opinion about using asynchronous or synchronous connection to a MS SQL BE from an Access FE? You would definitely be the man and could put this whole controversy to rest. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 2:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ "Are any of your developing full blown ACCESS/SQL Server applications for clients? If so what type of an app is it?" When I was at Coles Group a year or so back I was part of a team of developers that built and maintained a whole suite of custom applications that were built on a common template. All the apps were based on a template which in turn was based on a SQL Server BE with MS Access FE (mde of course). We were starting to move any new apps to a web UI and away from MS Access. Many of these apps were critical for the day to day running of large national retail businesses. To give you some idea Coles Group is one of Australia's largest retailers with more than 2,600 stores throughout Australia and New Zealand, over 400,000 shareholders and more than 190,000 employees. My good friend Beny build a complex logistics app, which was used for scheduling all store deliveries based on availablity and type of truck (Some trucks can only fit in certain bays for example, some truck have to be in the cold store etc). Damn clever with a great UI. Some of these apps had hundreds of concurrent users 24/7, although many also lead a far less demanding life. The financial control system I build had about 50 users over a WAN. It was fast, stable and accurate. Gotta love that :) The big advantage was even though each application was build for a totally different purpose, it had a common platform and build, which meant that any of the development team could work on it if the main developer was away or busy. I miss working with SQL Server. Current role is 100% access based. Feel a bit left behind to be honest... :-/ cheers Darryl -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Monday, 28 February 2011 11:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hey All Thanks I have got to try out Stuart suggestion for updating stored procedures in SQL Server using ACCESS. I am not finding any significant differences in speed when using ACCESS tables and queries versus SQL Server tables and pass through queries, I assume that is because I am doing my testing on my local machine and not on a network (or Web). Are any of your developing full blown ACCESS/SQL Server applications for clients? If so what type of an app is it? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 11:17:24 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 09:17:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the problem with the invoice. It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple invoice details. The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a classic case of why you should not use a natural key as your PK. What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer an accurate short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the description (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" turned on.) -- Stuart On 28 Feb 2011 at 17:36, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > <> > > Occasionally on a lookup table if a client insists on having a short > code > along with a description. Then I do this: > > LookupCode - Text - PK > Description - Text > > as I don't see any sense in doing this: > > LookupID - Autonumber - PK > Code - Text - CK > Description - Text > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 11:47:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 12:47:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 11:55:40 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 12:55:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] FW: NOW THIS IS COOL !!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D6D331C.9050107@colbyconsulting.com> John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Stephen Joy wrote: > > *THIS IS INTERESTING.......... PLEASE FORWARD TO YOUR FRIENDS AND RELATIVES... * > *Click on the year you were born and read the news for that year. > ** > _1900_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1900.html ) > _1901_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1901.html ) > _1902_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1902.html ) > _1903_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1903.html ) > _1904_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1904.html ) > _1905_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1905.html ) > _1906_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1906.html ) _* > *1907_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1907.html > _1908_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1908.html ) > _1909_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1909.html ) > _1910_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1910.html) > _1911_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1911.html ) > _1912_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1912.html ) > _1913_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1913.html ) > _1914_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1914.html ) > _1915_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1915.html ) > _1916_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1916.html ) > _1917_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1917.html ) > _1918_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1918.html ) > _1919_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1919.html ) > _1920_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1920.html ) > _1921_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1921.html ) > _1922_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1922.html ) > _1923_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1923.html ) > _1924_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1924.html ) > _1925_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1925.html ) > _1926_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1926.html ) > _1927_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1927.html ) > _1928_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1928.html ) > _1929_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1929.html ) > _1930_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1930.html ) > _1931_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1931.html ) > _1932_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1932.html ) > _1933_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1933.html ) > _1934_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1934.html ) > _1935_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1935.html ) > _1936_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1936.html ) > _1937_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1937.html ) > _1938_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1938.html ) > _1939_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1939.html ) > _1940_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1940.html ) > _1941_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1941.html ) > _1942_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1942.html ) > _1943_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1943.html ) > _1944_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1944.html ) > _1945_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1945.html ) > _1946_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1946.html ) > _1947_ ( http://www..infoplease.com/year/1947.html ) > _1948_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1948.html ) > _1949_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1949.html ) > _1950_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1950.html ) > _1951_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1951.html ) > _1952_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1952.html ) > _1953_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1953.html ) > _1954_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1954.html ) > _1955_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1955.html ) > _1956_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1956.html ) > _1957_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1957.html ) > _1958_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1958.html ) > _1959_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1959.html ) > _1960_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1960.html ) > _1961_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1961.html ) > _1962_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1962.html ) > _1963_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1963.html ) > _1964_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1964.html ) > _1965_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1965.html ) > _1966_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1966.html ) > _1967_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1967....html ) > _1968_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1968.html ) > _1969_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1969.html ) > _1970_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1970.html ) > _1971_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1971.html ) > _1972_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1972.html ) > _1973_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1973.html ) > _1974_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1974.html ) > _1975_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1975.html ) > _1976_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1976.html ) > _1977_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1977.html ) > _1978_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1978.html ) > _1979_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1979.html ) > _1980_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1980.html ) > _1981_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1981.html ) > _1982_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1982.html ) > _1983_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1983.html ) > _1984_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1984.html ) > _1985_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1985.html ) ; > _1986_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1986.html ) > _1987_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1987.html ) > _1988_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1988.html ) > _1989_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1989.html ) > _1990_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1990. html ) > _1991_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1991.html ) > _1992_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1992.html ) > _1993_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1993.html ) > _1994_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1994.html ) > _1995_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1995.html ) > _1996_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1996.html ) > _1997_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1997.html ) > _1998_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1998.html ) > _1999_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/1999.html ) > _2000_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2000.html ) > _2001_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2001.html ) > _2002_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2002.html ) > _2003_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2003.html ) > _2004_ ( http://www.infoplease.com/year/2004.html ) > _2005_ (http://www.infoplease.com/year/2005.html ) > _2006_ (http://www.infoplease.com/year/2006..html ;* > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > * From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 12:08:05 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 10:08:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I do too. On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 9:47 AM, jwcolby wrote: > When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an > autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need > an autonumber pk! > > I then proceed to create the fields. > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 12:37:23 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 13:37:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <0DF5844BACEB481BA6609F13FFECD526@XPS> <> That's really not true. A proper design, natural key or not would have solved the issue. <> Neither do I, but that's simply for performance reasons. However it does mean that I need to maintain one additional index in a lot of cases. JimD. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:17 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the problem with the invoice. It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple invoice details. The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a classic case of why you should not use a natural key as your PK. What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer an accurate short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the description (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" turned on.) -- Stuart On 28 Feb 2011 at 17:36, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > <> > > Occasionally on a lookup table if a client insists on having a short > code > along with a description. Then I do this: > > LookupCode - Text - PK > Description - Text > > as I don't see any sense in doing this: > > LookupID - Autonumber - PK > Code - Text - CK > Description - Text > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 12:40:26 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 13:40:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Tue Mar 1 12:50:06 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 13:50:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 1 13:12:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 14:12:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than one would think. If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > So on a many to many linking table you would do this: > > tblBooksAndAuthors > LinkID - Autonumber - PK > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B > > And not simply: > > tblBooksAndAuthors > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B > > and eliminate an index? If so, why not? > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an > autoincrement PK. I no > longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! > > I then proceed to create the fields. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the >> problem with the invoice. >> >> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By >> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from > multiple >> invoice details. >> >> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it >> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan >> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >> classic case of why >> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >> >> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no > longer >> an accurate >> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the >> tables which store it >> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >> description >> >> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" >> turned on.) >> >> From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 1 13:34:15 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 22:34:15 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: <0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 14:22:56 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 15:22:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: Lambert, It needs a unique index, which the Author/Book combination provides. Not sure why the original post got formatted that way, but it should have looked like this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B Which might be clearer. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 01:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 1 15:12:28 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 16:12:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Curriculum Developer Message-ID: <599FB9B49B8A40A29D6D4108223FD487@SusanHarkins> I've got a reader trying to convert XCH formatted files (something called Curriculum Developer) to Access. Only built-in options saves partial data to text, but not all the data. Anyone familiar with this product or format? Susan H. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 15:30:25 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 07:30:25 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6BE4E3.8050801@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6CF7C0.3010503@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6D6571.14018.1C5A9937@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I agree. On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:42, jwcolby wrote: > > Upsize your tables to SQL Server and be done with it. Easier said > than done in some cases, quite trivial in others. > > My point really is that for *small* databases (back ends), simple ODBC > links to the data sitting in SQL Server will get you there instantly. > Then you can play around with more esoteric things like binding the > forms and combos to pass through queries and the like - assuming > A2K > of course. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 15:46:13 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 07:46:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com>, Message-ID: <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous operations. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 16:55:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 14:55:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <218527AECE044853B16161144994FADB@creativesystemdesigns.com> Good plan John. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 9:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 17:01:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 15:01:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6BD4E7.6040106@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Stuart: I must have missed your point but it is a great article. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous operations. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 17:09:40 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:09:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> My point was that I disagree with the statement "Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous". SQL Server function primarily using synchronous connections - whan you request a recordset, you wait for it to be returned. -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:01, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > I must have missed your point but it is a great article. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:46 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. > > MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous > operations. > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx > > > Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform > for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including > an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database > makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that > were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > -- > Stuart > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 1 17:26:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 15:26:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D6925.4875.1C6910D6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <99B602B227BA4BDCAA6AA23C701943AA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My point was that I disagree with the statement "Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous". SQL Server function primarily using synchronous connections - whan you request a recordset, you wait for it to be returned. -- Stuart On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:01, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > I must have missed your point but it is a great article. > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:46 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Guess SQL Server isn't a real SQL DB then. > > MS had to build Service Broker, especially to assist with asynchronous > operations. > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms345113%28v=sql.90%29.aspx > > > Summary: Microsoft SQL Server 2005 Service Broker is a new platform > for building distributed asynchronous database applications. Including > an asynchronous, reliable messaging feature in the SQL Server database > makes it possible to build a variety of database applications that > were difficult, if not impossible, to build before. > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > -- > Stuart > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 1 17:49:41 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:49:41 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <201103012349.p21NnoGD001965@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Ditto. I don't even ask if it is what the client wants. I know they will need it one day. Had a classic case of this sort of thing where I work. Been banging on at some folks here since November that their "It is our source of truth and there is nothing wrong with it" XL Spreadsheet is going to cause them (severe) grief sometime soon as their role expands. 5 months later they have decided that perhaps they do need to talk to me after all... aaaah, the sound of little light bulbs going "ping!". Cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, 2 March 2011 4:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered the > problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two tables. By > some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched > another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but it > cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never > inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all the > tables which store it > or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the > description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 17:55:12 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:55:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> See inline. On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data > is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any > difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request > is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then > retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the > data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it also works asynchronously: >From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a95265/wfapi11.htm A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous process is a process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. -- Stuart > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 1 18:21:04 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 19:21:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Message-ID: Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 1 18:29:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:29:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Win7Sp1 and ADO In-Reply-To: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D6D8F84.26700.1CFEF5CB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It seems that if you are using ADO and compile under Win7 SP1, your application may no longer work on previous Winodws versions :-( http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en- US/windowsgeneraldevelopmentissues/thread/3a4ce946-effa-4f77-98a6-34f11c6b5a13 -- Stuart From delam at zyterra.com Tue Mar 1 20:17:54 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie Elam) Date: Tue, 01 Mar 2011 20:17:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use them for the following reasons: 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short code based on the name has changed (sigh). 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the relationship is crap without cascade updates. 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. Debbie On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I > need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than > one would think. > > If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >> create an >> autoincrement PK. I no >> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! >> >> I then proceed to create the fields. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>> discovered the >>> problem with the invoice. >>> >>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>> tables. By >>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >> multiple >>> invoice details. >>> >>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>> but it >>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>> temptation. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >>> classic case of why >>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>> >>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no >> longer >>> an accurate >>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>> all the >>> tables which store it >>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >>> description >>> >>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>> Update" >>> turned on.) >>> >>> From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 02:13:13 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:13:13 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com><9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 02:18:01 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:18:01 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart -- <<< That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. >>> But waiting "for the remote server to respond" in the case of AJAX doesn't mean stopping/blocking browser - such a waiting mean asynchronous "listening" for MS SQL to process (a set of) SQL requests, and when any one of the latter is ready asynchronously process its result (set). Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 2:55 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server See inline. On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data > is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any > difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request > is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then > retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the > data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it also works asynchronously: >From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 65/wfapi11.htm A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous process is a process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. -- Stuart > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you can > > > work around its philosophy of design does not mean you should. > > > > > > > > > -- From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 03:35:05 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 19:35:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4D6E0F49.5585.1EF20FAB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> True, I missed the sneaky conflation of the terms "web based" and AJAX :-) -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:18, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Stuart -- > > <<< > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. >>> But > waiting "for the remote server to respond" in the case of AJAX doesn't > mean stopping/blocking browser - such a waiting mean asynchronous > "listening" for MS SQL to process (a set of) SQL requests, and when > any one of the latter is ready asynchronously process its result > (set). > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 2:55 To: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > See inline. > On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the > > data is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > > > > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > > > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is > > any difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data > > request is queued, when the system has time it checks the request > > and then retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site > > indicating that the data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the > > data is transferred. > > > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > > > > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle > works, it also works asynchronously: > > > From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default > in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: > > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.90 > 2/a952 65/wfapi11.htm > > > A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A > synchronous process is a process that can be executed without > interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a > process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be > completed immediately, such as function activities that are not > deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return > control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until > it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can > immediately check for process results that were written to item > attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait > for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process > that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it > contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities > that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, > notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait > activities. > > -- > Stuart > > > > > Why is the default connection method to SQL Server synchronous? > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 1 Mar 2011 at 8:41, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > > > > > Real SQL DBs are designed to be asynchronous. Just because you > > > > can work around its philosophy of design does not mean you > > > > should. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 03:35:34 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 19:35:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , Message-ID: <4D6E0F66.1395.1EF28335@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Jim's already stipulated that it's a many to many table. It alreay allows for multiple authors. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:13, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: ... > > Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one > author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several > authors for a book is a "simple change request"... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > ... >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to ?> tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to >> tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 04:19:34 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 13:19:34 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E0F66.1395.1EF28335@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , <4D6E0F66.1395.1EF28335@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <2494A646D19E498F860D33961D0B01AC@nant> Hi Stuart -- <<< Jim's already stipulated that it's a many to many table. It already allows for multiple authors. >>> Sorry, I have missed that. But anyway it doesn't make inapplicable my comment on using [LinkID] and "consistent data design", does it? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 12:36 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim's already stipulated that it's a many to many table. It alreay allows for multiple authors. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:13, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: ... > > Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one > author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several > authors for a book is a "simple change request"... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > ... >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to ?> tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to >> tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. From ssharkins at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 06:48:42 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 07:48:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> Message-ID: <666D2EE834D24ED5ACCBE7BB396AF6B1@SusanHarkins> Yelp, yelp, and yelp! Hi Deb!!! Susan H. > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 07:04:14 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:04:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> Message-ID: <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Debbie, I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it as such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being entered more then once? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use them for the following reasons: 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short code based on the name has changed (sigh). 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the relationship is crap without cascade updates. 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. Debbie On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I > need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than > one would think. > > If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> >> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >> >> And not simply: >> >> tblBooksAndAuthors >> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >> >> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >> >> Jim. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >> create an >> autoincrement PK. I no >> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! >> >> I then proceed to create the fields. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>> discovered the >>> problem with the invoice. >>> >>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>> tables. By >>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >> multiple >>> invoice details. >>> >>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>> but it >>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>> temptation. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >>> classic case of why >>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>> >>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no >> longer >>> an accurate >>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>> all the >>> tables which store it >>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >>> description >>> >>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>> Update" >>> turned on.) >>> >>> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 07:04:14 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 08:04:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com><9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> Message-ID: <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 2 07:07:46 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 05:07:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Stuart: A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) with the BE data server. Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and if the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded some thing better.) When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to have dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of users. Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, bound connection. When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, under load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to respond and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of connection. A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection as the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that tight binding. So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get in to. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server See inline. On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and > therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, > call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data > is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the > population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request and wait for a reply before doing anything else. > I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has > more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any > difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request > is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then > retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the > data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. > > That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it also works asynchronously: >From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in Oracle to. Note the use of the word forced in the last sentence.: http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 65/wfapi11.htm A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous process is a process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The Workflow Engine executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that can be completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to the background engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling application that initiated the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you can immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes or directly to the database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. ... An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot complete immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples of activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, notifications with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. -- Stuart From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Wed Mar 2 07:40:14 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 05:40:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have to do some rethinking here? From delam at zyterra.com Wed Mar 2 08:33:22 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:33:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Message-ID: Additional indexes are another matter entirely. They are appropriate and needed. Relationships with other tables should be immutable and not subject to data entry. Don't confuse the two. Debbie Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2011, at 7:04 AM, "Jim Dettman" wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about > it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent > from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports > out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why > natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that > used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it > happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I >> need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than >> one would think. >> >> If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >>> >>> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >>> >>> And not simply: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >>> >>> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >>> create an >>> autoincrement PK. I no >>> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber >>> pk! >>> >>> I then proceed to create the fields. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients >>>> were >>>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>>> discovered the >>>> problem with the invoice. >>>> >>>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by >>>> grouping >>>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>>> tables. By >>>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash >>>> matched >>>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >>> multiple >>>> invoice details. >>>> >>>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>>> but it >>>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have >>>> never >>>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>>> temptation. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>>> >>>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. >>>> This is a >>>> classic case of why >>>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>>> >>>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code >>>> is no >>> longer >>>> an accurate >>>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>>> all the >>>> tables which store it >>>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't >>>> match the >>>> description >>>> >>>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>>> Update" >>>> turned on.) >>>> >>>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 08:39:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 09:39:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being entered more then once? ohhhh don't go there!!! PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I >> need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than >> one would think. >> >> If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >>> >>> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >>> >>> And not simply: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >>> >>> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >>> create an >>> autoincrement PK. I no >>> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! >>> >>> I then proceed to create the fields. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were >>>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>>> discovered the >>>> problem with the invoice. >>>> >>>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping >>>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>>> tables. By >>>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash matched >>>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >>> multiple >>>> invoice details. >>>> >>>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>>> but it >>>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have never >>>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>>> temptation. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>>> >>>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a >>>> classic case of why >>>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>>> >>>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no >>> longer >>>> an accurate >>>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>>> all the >>>> tables which store it >>>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't match the >>>> description >>>> >>>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>>> Update" >>>> turned on.) >>>> >>>> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 09:09:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:09:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D6E5DC1.5010005@colbyconsulting.com> >The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Me too, very powerful. >Do I have to do some rethinking here? Maybe but probably not. Generally speaking, you do not want to be displaying hundreds or thousands of records in any form. Generally speaking subforms by their nature limit the number of records, only returning children of the parent record. That said, they could still return thousands of ... checks for an account, or accounts for a bank, or... you get the picture. You need to stay aware of that issue and try to prevent pulling (as an example) 10,000 checks into a subform on an account form. You need to do this for any data store but it *may* be more of an issue for an ODBC linked table to a SQL Server. The problem here is we don't really know how JET handles things behind the scene. It is constantly watching as you edit records for example. Does (and can) it instantly go set a lock on an edited record in an ODBC linked table to a SQL Server? Or does it lock the record at the instant it tries to write back, and then look for changes to fields edited on this form? I think those of us interested in this issue need to experiment and discover what JET actually does. We can do that by opening the same FE twice, opening the same bound form to the same record, and then editing the record in one instance and watching the second instance. JET is a sophisticated little widget and it is still in charge of the application even if we are linked via ODBC to a SQL Server table / view. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:40 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and ADO connections all working. > One question is why would you link to SQL Server tables in Access when you can do everything with > ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do you just simply > link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say to keep the data simplified on a main form and > then allow the user to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is I like > subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have to do some rethinking here? From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 09:13:05 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 18:13:05 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com><9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><0437371FC066461286FB9C0C0AD0BD62@nant> <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> Message-ID: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 09:17:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 10:17:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has a pool of 100 connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out how). Someone on the internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you > could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) > with the BE data server. > > Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were > problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and if > the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to > corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years > ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded some > thing better.) > > When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to have > dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as > thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of > users. > > Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits > (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the > connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the > request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the > remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is > given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately > terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. > > In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the > background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, > bound connection. > > When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a > dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, under > load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to respond > and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of connection. > A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection as > the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that > tight binding. > > So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get > in to. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > See inline. > On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >> > > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request > and wait for a > reply before doing anything else. > >> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >> >> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >> > > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it > also works > asynchronously: > > >> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in > Oracle to. Note the > use of the word forced in the last sentence.: > > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 > 65/wfapi11.htm > > > A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous > process is a > process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The > Workflow Engine > executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that > can be > completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to > the background > engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling > application that initiated > the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you > can > immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes > or directly to the > database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. > ... > An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot > complete > immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples > of > activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, > notifications > with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. > > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Wed Mar 2 09:33:04 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 07:33:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E5DC1.5010005@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6E5DC1.5010005@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6E6330.5080601@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John So to use a subform I would need to link the SQL Server table on a bound form? Tabs I may be able to refresh the recordset as the user changes tabs (I think I read that somewhere for Tabs). jwcolby wrote: > >The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. > > Me too, very powerful. > > >Do I have to do some rethinking here? > > Maybe but probably not. Generally speaking, you do not want to be > displaying hundreds or thousands of records in any form. Generally > speaking subforms by their nature limit the number of records, only > returning children of the parent record. > > That said, they could still return thousands of ... checks for an > account, or accounts for a bank, or... you get the picture. > > You need to stay aware of that issue and try to prevent pulling (as an > example) 10,000 checks into a subform on an account form. You need to > do this for any data store but it *may* be more of an issue for an > ODBC linked table to a SQL Server. > > The problem here is we don't really know how JET handles things behind > the scene. It is constantly watching as you edit records for > example. Does (and can) it instantly go set a lock on an edited > record in an ODBC linked table to a SQL Server? Or does it lock the > record at the instant it tries to write back, and then look for > changes to fields edited on this form? > > I think those of us interested in this issue need to experiment and > discover what JET actually does. We can do that by opening the same > FE twice, opening the same bound form to the same record, and then > editing the record in one instance and watching the second instance. > > JET is a sophisticated little widget and it is still in charge of the > application even if we are linked via ODBC to a SQL Server table / view. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:40 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > >> Hey All >> I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and >> ADO connections all working. >> One question is why would you link to SQL Server tables in Access >> when you can do everything with >> ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms >> and tabs, do you just simply >> link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say to keep the data >> simplified on a main form and >> then allow the user to pick a record and then display a more detailed >> form. The thing is I like >> subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have to do >> some rethinking here? > From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 2 09:57:29 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:57:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> Message-ID: <003e01cbd8f2$8cf765a0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Go for it. . . . It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. A great debate about consistent vs inconsistent might be more profitable than discussing the person in the street reacting to the Banksters losing all the world's money. It seems only a few nations are immune to such. Well I better get back to work straightening out my once 'consistent' project. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade > Update" turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 2 10:02:30 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 08:02:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: You are definitely going into new territory, to my experience on this one. Having a bound system, connecting over the internet, I would suspect would drain resources from your BE server, (20+ dedicated connections per remote station? One for every bound table?) And then there is that flaky internet in between. Me thinks there is a good reason for not exceeding the default 100 connection...Have you calculated how much resources like bandwidth, CPU and Memory each connection requires? Fifteen years ago I tried to get a similar system working and failed but the internal design of Access may have improved dramatically since then. As I said before, hats off if you get it working. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has a pool of 100 connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out how). Someone on the internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Stuart: > > A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you > could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) > with the BE data server. > > Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were > problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and if > the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to > corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years > ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded some > thing better.) > > When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to have > dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as > thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of > users. > > Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits > (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the > connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the > request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the > remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is > given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately > terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. > > In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the > background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, > bound connection. > > When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a > dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, under > load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to respond > and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of connection. > A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection as > the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that > tight binding. > > So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get > in to. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > See inline. > On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: > >> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >> > > That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a request > and wait for a > reply before doing anything else. > >> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >> >> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >> > > No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, it > also works > asynchronously: > > >> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in > Oracle to. Note the > use of the word forced in the last sentence.: > > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 > 65/wfapi11.htm > > > A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A synchronous > process is a > process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. The > Workflow Engine > executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that > can be > completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred to > the background > engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling > application that initiated > the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, you > can > immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes > or directly to the > database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. > ... > An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot > complete > immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. Examples > of > activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, > notifications > with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 10:22:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:22:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> John, <> Ah why not? ;) <> I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a relation by it's very definition would form a unique index. << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being entered more then once? ohhhh don't go there!!! PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: <> From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 10:40:48 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 11:40:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> Message-ID: Debbie, <> There are two contexts to a database design; a logical one and a physical one. Your working with the physical one, I'm talking about the logical one. <> They would not be if you used natural keys in a db design. Don't get me wrong; I'm not advocating that. But if we had systems capable of handling natural key designs performance wise, then additional indexes would not be required. Additional indexes are only required because we take the shortcut of using auto numbers as keys rather then using a natural key to model the data physically. Interesting footnote: Access when first released was often touted as being truest to relational theory because it had the feature of cascading updates and deletes. <> That's true whether you used auto number or natural keys. However if you did use natural keys in a database design, then data entry could very well change data that the key is based on, but it would still not change the relationships between relations. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Additional indexes are another matter entirely. They are appropriate and needed. Relationships with other tables should be immutable and not subject to data entry. Don't confuse the two. Debbie Sent from my iPhone On Mar 2, 2011, at 7:04 AM, "Jim Dettman" wrote: > Debbie, > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about > it as > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent > from > being entered more then once? > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam > Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > them for the following reasons: > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports > out of > a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. > They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short > code based on the name has changed (sigh). > 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a > problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the > relationship is crap without cascade updates. > 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why > natural > keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that > used > docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional > countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, > refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to > work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head > too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it > probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it > happened. > > Debbie > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> In fact I do that. It establishes the PKID and it is there when I >> need to use that as a FK in another table, which is more often than >> one would think. >> >> If I need a table, I need a autoincrement PKID. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:40 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: >>> >>> So on a many to many linking table you would do this: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> LinkID - Autonumber - PK >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B >>> >>> And not simply: >>> >>> tblBooksAndAuthors >>> AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A >>> BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B >>> >>> and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> >>> Jim. >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>> >>> When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is >>> create an >>> autoincrement PK. I no >>> longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber >>> pk! >>> >>> I then proceed to create the fields. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >>>> Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients >>>> were >>>> having problems with their invoices. After about two days I >>>> discovered the >>>> problem with the invoice. >>>> >>>> It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by >>>> grouping >>>> together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two >>>> tables. By >>>> some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key hash >>>> matched >>>> another unrelated key value and the sub form data was pulling from >>> multiple >>>> invoice details. >>>> >>>> The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs >>>> but it >>>> cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have >>>> never >>>> inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the >>>> temptation. >>>> >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >>> McLachlan >>>> Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >>>> >>>> I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. >>>> This is a >>>> classic case of why >>>> you should not use a natural key as your PK. >>>> >>>> What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code >>>> is no >>> longer >>>> an accurate >>>> short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout >>>> all the >>>> tables which store it >>>> or do you leave your customer with strange Codes which don't >>>> match the >>>> description >>>> >>>> (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade >>>> Update" >>>> turned on.) >>>> >>>> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Wed Mar 2 11:00:22 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 20:00:22 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <003e01cbd8f2$8cf765a0$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> <003e01cbd8f2$8cf765a0$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <8B418CB4E9A84AACAC986BCAA7539C8A@nant> Hi Edward, Thank you for your note. <<< It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. >>> Refactoring is used to keep a project consistent/get a project back into a consistent state. See also "Technical Debt" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt) related books, articles, discussions... and how to handle that "technical debt" to keep one's project consistent... In my experience approx. 20% of a project time is needed to keep it consistent. That "additional" efforts do pay back a lot in long run. And if one will keep a "technical debt" growing they will get "technically bankrupt" sooner or later. One (a seasoned developer) should probably better not inform their customers when and how they keep their project "technical debt" work performed but for a "good" customer with long lasting relations such a "secret" should be opened... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 18:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Go for it. . . . It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. A great debate about consistent vs inconsistent might be more profitable than discussing the person in the street reacting to the Banksters losing all the world's money. It seems only a few nations are immune to such. Well I better get back to work straightening out my once 'consistent' project. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade > Update" turned on.) > > From patrinod at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 11:47:14 2011 From: patrinod at gmail.com (Den Patrino) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 12:47:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings Message-ID: Members ... It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. Are there pros and cons to one or the other. TIA Patty From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 2 11:48:58 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:48:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <8B418CB4E9A84AACAC986BCAA7539C8A@nant> Message-ID: <000601cbd902$1cb2e840$5bdea8c0@edz1> My pleasure. . . Have to run, and get back to my can of worms. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 10:00 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Edward, Thank you for your note. <<< It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. >>> Refactoring is used to keep a project consistent/get a project back into a consistent state. See also "Technical Debt" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt) related books, articles, discussions... and how to handle that "technical debt" to keep one's project consistent... In my experience approx. 20% of a project time is needed to keep it consistent. That "additional" efforts do pay back a lot in long run. And if one will keep a "technical debt" growing they will get "technically bankrupt" sooner or later. One (a seasoned developer) should probably better not inform their customers when and how they keep their project "technical debt" work performed but for a "good" customer with long lasting relations such a "secret" should be opened... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 18:57 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Go for it. . . . It seems many projects start out 'consistent' then become 'inconsistent'. A great debate about consistent vs inconsistent might be more profitable than discussing the person in the street reacting to the Banksters losing all the world's money. It seems only a few nations are immune to such. Well I better get back to work straightening out my once 'consistent' project. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade > Update" turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 2 12:55:56 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 10:55:56 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Patty: I am not sure this will answer you question but find a link to three different sites giving sample connection strings for various versions of MS SQL and some with explanations. (The list is half way down the page.) http://www.databaseadvisors.com/reference/referencemisc.asp HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Den Patrino Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:47 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings Members ... It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. Are there pros and cons to one or the other. TIA Patty -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 13:28:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 14:28:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6E9A78.2020809@colbyconsulting.com> My connection leak is actually happening with a complex C# system I am designing. My guess is that Access would use a single connection for all linked tables. There is no reason to have more than one for all of the tables. As I said, this is all new to me. I will be doing some tests soon to look at the locking issues. I am using the 2007 run time so I have whatever advantage might be available in terms of the latest stuff. In fact a client has offered a copy of Access 2010 which I will probably take her up on. At that point my runtimes will be using 2010 whatever that might mean. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:02 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > You are definitely going into new territory, to my experience on this one. > Having a bound system, connecting over the internet, I would suspect would > drain resources from your BE server, (20+ dedicated connections per remote > station? One for every bound table?) And then there is that flaky internet > in between. > > Me thinks there is a good reason for not exceeding the default 100 > connection...Have you calculated how much resources like bandwidth, CPU and > Memory each connection requires? > > Fifteen years ago I tried to get a similar system working and failed but the > internal design of Access may have improved dramatically since then. As I > said before, hats off if you get it working. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 7:17 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has > a pool of 100 > connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out > how). Someone on the > internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Stuart: >> >> A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you >> could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) >> with the BE data server. >> >> Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were >> problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and > if >> the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to >> corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years >> ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded > some >> thing better.) >> >> When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to > have >> dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as >> thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of >> users. >> >> Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits >> (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the >> connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the >> request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the >> remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is >> given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately >> terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. >> >> In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the >> background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, >> bound connection. >> >> When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a >> dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, > under >> load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to > respond >> and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of > connection. >> A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection > as >> the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that >> tight binding. >> >> So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get >> in to. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> See inline. >> On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> >>> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >>> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >>> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >>> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >>> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >>> >> >> That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request >> and wait for a >> reply before doing anything else. >> >>> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >>> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >>> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >>> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >>> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >>> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >>> >>> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >>> >> >> No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, > it >> also works >> asynchronously: >> >> >>> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in >> Oracle to. Note the >> use of the word forced in the last sentence.: >> >> > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 >> 65/wfapi11.htm >> >> >> A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A > synchronous >> process is a >> process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. > The >> Workflow Engine >> executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that >> can be >> completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred > to >> the background >> engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling >> application that initiated >> the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, > you >> can >> immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes >> or directly to the >> database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. >> ... >> An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot >> complete >> immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. > Examples >> of >> activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, >> notifications >> with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. >> >> From rlister at actuarial-files.com Wed Mar 2 13:39:17 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 15:39:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Database window Message-ID: <000001cbd911$87647410$962d5c30$@com> Hello to all of you, How do I hide the database window using code? TIA and Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 13:40:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 14:40:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. What? It certainly can. >As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. Yes they are just pointers or tags. My point is that in SQL Server you create a field with an integer. As a separate step you set it to be an auto-increment. As another separate step you set it to be the PK - SQL Server labels it as the PK of the table. As a result of making the field a PK sql server automatically creates a unique index, on that one field. At that point you have a long auto-increment that is a PK. At that point it has all of the attributes required to be and is in fact a surrogate key. It is indexed unique, it is defined by SQL Server as the PK and it's value is automatically created by the system with no input from the user. It is a surrogate and it performs as one. I use them all the time. All of which has nothing whatsoever to do with preventing duplicate records. The PK surrogate key has a unique index, however it does not prevent duplicates *records*, it just prevents duplicate primary key values. Two separate issues. > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. No, a surrogate PK is a pointer. You can in fact have auto-numbers that are not used as the surrogate PK. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:22 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > <> > > Ah why not? ;) > > <> > > I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a relation > by it's very definition would form a unique index. > > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> > > Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the > function of one. > > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or > tags. > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being > entered more then once? > > ohhhh don't go there!!! > > PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does > not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. > > That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> Debbie, >> >> I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it > as >> such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from >> being entered more then once? >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used >> (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use >> them for the following reasons: >> >> 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is >> supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of >> a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. >> They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short >> code based on the name has changed (sigh). >> 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a >> problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the >> relationship is crap without cascade updates. >> 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural >> keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used >> docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional >> countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, >> refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to >> work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head >> too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it >> probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. >> >> Debbie >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > <> > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 2 13:50:04 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 19:50:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E9A78.2020809@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6D7CB4.20521.1CB578BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <86AF70249DB04DBB91D345DE872A57E8@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6E5F75.6050502@colbyconsulting.com> , <4D6E9A78.2020809@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB965FD@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> try this re connection count-just lifted of web SELECT DB_NAME(dbid) as DBName, COUNT(dbid) as NumberOfConnections, loginame as LoginName FROM sys.sysprocesses WHERE dbid > 0 GROUP BY dbid, loginame Martin WP Reid Information Services The McClay Library Queen's University of Belfast 10 College Park Belfast BT7 1LP Tel : 02890976174 Email : mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sharepoint Training Portal ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby [jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 02 March 2011 19:28 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My connection leak is actually happening with a complex C# system I am designing. My guess is that Access would use a single connection for all linked tables. There is no reason to have more than one for all of the tables. As I said, this is all new to me. I will be doing some tests soon to look at the locking issues. I am using the 2007 run time so I have whatever advantage might be available in terms of the latest stuff. In fact a client has offered a copy of Access 2010 which I will probably take her up on. At that point my runtimes will be using 2010 whatever that might mean. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:02 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > You are definitely going into new territory, to my experience on this one. > Having a bound system, connecting over the internet, I would suspect would > drain resources from your BE server, (20+ dedicated connections per remote > station? One for every bound table?) And then there is that flaky internet > in between. > > Me thinks there is a good reason for not exceeding the default 100 > connection...Have you calculated how much resources like bandwidth, CPU and > Memory each connection requires? > > Fifteen years ago I tried to get a similar system working and failed but the > internal design of Access may have improved dramatically since then. As I > said before, hats off if you get it working. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 7:17 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Because I was leaking connections, I looked it up. SQL Server actually has > a pool of 100 > connections, and that number can be changed (though I haven't figured out > how). Someone on the > internet had set his to 1000 for some reason. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:07 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> Hi Stuart: >> >> A number of years ago the philosophy was to have "tight-binding" (or you >> could call it bound or forced-synchronization or a dedicated connection) >> with the BE data server. >> >> Over a fixed LAN system, the older standard was possible but there were >> problems. For example: Connect an Access FE to an MDB BE on a server and > if >> the server crashed or needed a remote reboot the MDB was very likely to >> corrupted. (If some user was connected...Had this happen a number of years >> ago while working on some government contracts and the client demanded > some >> thing better.) >> >> When BE SQL servers were first introduced, again the philosophy was to > have >> dedicated connections to the server. The result was server farms as >> thousands of fixed connections were required, depending on the number of >> users. >> >> Now a days, a single server, with only 20 connections can support 50K hits >> (different users?) a day. When a request arrives, it is queued and the >> connection is immediately terminated. When the server can handle the >> request, it does so and then queues up to open up a new connection, to the >> remote station. If the remote station responds immediately the response is >> given and any data is transferred otherwise the connection is immediately >> terminated and the response queue cycles and tries again later. >> >> In most cases, the user is blissfully unaware of what is going on in the >> background as to them it appears that they have dedicated, synchronized, >> bound connection. >> >> When working with a program such as Access, the programmer can force a >> dedicated connection by holding the connection open but unfortunately, > under >> load conditions, the BE server will run out of resources, refuse to > respond >> and there goes that tight binding. Added to that is the type of > connection. >> A dedicated LAN connection is very different from an internet connection > as >> the internet by its nature is flaky and unstable and again there goes that >> tight binding. >> >> So there is my interpretation and a lot more detailed than I wanted to get >> in to. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:55 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> See inline. >> On 1 Mar 2011 at 15:26, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> >>> I would suggest that most MS SQL applications are web based and >>> therefore are using asynchronous type connections... they connect, >>> call to a SP and wait for the remote server to respond. When the data >>> is ready for receipt your Ajax connections notes data and the >>> population of the recordsets begin, then connection is terminated. >>> >> >> That is a perfect description of a "synchronous" connection. Send a > request >> and wait for a >> reply before doing anything else. >> >>> I would suspect that MS SQL runs similar to Oracle. Oracle just has >>> more of its internal features exposed so I doubt whether there is any >>> difference. When accessing data on an Oracle server the data request >>> is queued, when the system has time it checks the request and then >>> retrieves any data. It then calls the remote site indicating that the >>> data ready, when the remote site says 'yes', the data is transferred. >>> >>> That does not describe a synchronous connection to me. >>> >> >> No, that is asynchronous. But that is only one of the ways Oracle works, > it >> also works >> asynchronously: >> >> >>> From my reading of this link, synchronous connections are the default in >> Oracle to. Note the >> use of the word forced in the last sentence.: >> >> > http://www.di.unipi.it/~ghelli/didattica/bdldoc/A97329_03/integrate.902/a952 >> 65/wfapi11.htm >> >> >> A workflow process can be either synchronous or asynchronous. A > synchronous >> process is a >> process that can be executed without interruption from start to finish. > The >> Workflow Engine >> executes a process synchronously when the process includes activities that >> can be >> completed immediately, such as function activities that are not deferred > to >> the background >> engine. The Workflow Engine does not return control to the calling >> application that initiated >> the workflow until it completes the process. With a synchronous process, > you >> can >> immediately check for process results that were written to item attributes >> or directly to the >> database. However, the user must wait for the process to complete. >> ... >> An asynchronous process is a process that the Workflow Engine cannot >> complete >> immediately because it contains activities that interrupt the flow. > Examples >> of >> activities that force an asynchronous process include deferred activities, >> notifications >> with responses, blocking activities, and wait activities. >> >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:47:06 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:47:06 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> When does a "many to many linking table" cease to be a "simply a many to many linking table" How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product formula and have to store a quantity as well? What about if you subsequently need to store info such as the start date of the link relationship. Do you then add a PK? -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 8:04, Jim Dettman wrote: > table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other > fields would ever be added to it. > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:53:17 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:53:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com>, <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6EAE3D.24667.215EF7F4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> D,RFC :-) -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 11:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > <> > > Ah why not? ;) > > <> > > I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a > relation > by it's very definition would form a unique index. > > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set > of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those > fields.>> > > Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a > surrogate > key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the > function of one. > > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers > or > tags. > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from > being > entered more then once? > > ohhhh don't go there!!! > > PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber > PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility > of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and > setting a unique index on those fields. > > That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Debbie, > > > > I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking > > about it > as > > such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent > > from being entered more then once? > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie > > Elam Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used > > (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use > > them for the following reasons: > > > > 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is > > supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports > > out of a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 > > years. They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of > > a short code based on the name has changed (sigh). 2. Real Data is > > subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a problem > > happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the relationship > > is crap without cascade updates. 3. Real data is never as unique as > > you may think. This is why natural keys usually evolve into > > compound keys. Had a patent database that used docket numbers as a > > natural key. As they supported additional countries, they added > > country. As addendum were added to the patent, refines were added. > > Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to work with. To top > > it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head too. Rare > > occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it probably > > occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. > > > > Debbie > > > > On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > <> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:53:16 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:53:16 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility with Win7 SP1? :-) If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have a lot of extra work to do :-( On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and > ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL > Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in > Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do > you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say > to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user > to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is > I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have > to do some rethinking here? -- AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 14:59:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:59:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D6EAF9E.15472.21645AAC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I always use full DSN-less connection strings for portability of the application. No need to worry about whether the DSN is present on every workstation and it's easy to change in an update to the FE if you need to change your connection ( say been a live and a training BE database). (A very common typo in the interent age, it's DSN (data source name) not DNS ( domain name system) -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 12:47, Den Patrino wrote: > Members ... > > It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've > just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. > I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a > DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. > > Are there pros and cons to one or the other. > > TIA > Patty > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 15:02:49 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:02:49 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4D6EB079.26925.2167B356@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> A very useful reference. I keep it bookmarked and it is my first point of call if I have anything out of the ordinary to connect to. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 10:55, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Patty: > > I am not sure this will answer you question but find a link to three > different sites giving sample connection strings for various versions > of MS SQL and some with explanations. (The list is half way down the > page.) > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com/reference/referencemisc.asp > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Den Patrino > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:47 AM To: > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect > strings > > Members ... > > It's nice to see some discussion on using Access with SQL Server. I've > just started to experiment with Access as a FE and SQL Server as a BE. > I'm a little confused about connection strings. Should one be using a > DNS connection string or a DNS-less connection string. > > Are there pros and cons to one or the other. > > TIA > Patty > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 15:19:56 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:19:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Database window In-Reply-To: <000001cbd911$87647410$962d5c30$@com> References: <000001cbd911$87647410$962d5c30$@com> Message-ID: <4D6EB47C.12048.217761AE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The simple way is to select an object in the database window first and then hide the window when it becomes active. DoCmd.SelectObject acTable, , True DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdWindowHide The disadvantage of this is that it "flashes" the database window on top of everything. The better way is to paste the following code into a module and call "ShowDbWindow False": Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Declare Function GetClassNameA Lib "user32" ( _ ByVal hwnd As Long, _ ByVal lpClassName As String, _ ByVal nMaxCount As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function GetWindow Lib "user32" ( _ ByVal hwnd As Long, _ ByVal wCmd As Long) _ As Long Private Declare Function ShowWindowAsync Lib "user32" ( _ ByVal hwnd As Long, _ ByVal nCmdShow As Long) _ As Boolean Private Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 Private Const GW_CHILD = 5 Private Const SW_HIDE = 0 Private Const SW_SHOW = 5 Private Function GetClassName( _ ByVal hwnd As Long) _ As String Dim lpClassName As String Dim lLen As Long lpClassName = String(255, 32) lLen = GetClassNameA(hwnd, lpClassName, 255) If lLen > 0 Then GetClassName = Left(lpClassName, lLen) End If End Function Public Sub ShowDbWindow(ByVal bCmdShow As Boolean) Dim hWndApp As Long hWndApp = GetWindow(Application.hWndAccessApp, GW_CHILD) Do Until hWndApp = 0 If GetClassName(hWndApp) = "MDIClient" Then Exit Do End If hWndApp = GetWindow(hWndApp, GW_HWNDNEXT) Loop If hWndApp > 0 Then hWndApp = GetWindow(hWndApp, GW_CHILD) Do Until hWndApp = 0 If GetClassName(hWndApp) = "ODb" Then Exit Do End If hWndApp = GetWindow(hWndApp, GW_HWNDNEXT) Loop End If If hWndApp > 0 Then ShowWindowAsync hWndApp, IIf(bCmdShow, SW_SHOW, SW_HIDE) End If End Sub On 2 Mar 2011 at 15:39, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello to all of you, > > > > How do I hide the database window using code? > > > > TIA and Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 15:47:06 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 16:47:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, << << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. What? It certainly can. >> What then is your definition of a PK? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 02:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. What? It certainly can. >As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. Yes they are just pointers or tags. My point is that in SQL Server you create a field with an integer. As a separate step you set it to be an auto-increment. As another separate step you set it to be the PK - SQL Server labels it as the PK of the table. As a result of making the field a PK sql server automatically creates a unique index, on that one field. At that point you have a long auto-increment that is a PK. At that point it has all of the attributes required to be and is in fact a surrogate key. It is indexed unique, it is defined by SQL Server as the PK and it's value is automatically created by the system with no input from the user. It is a surrogate and it performs as one. I use them all the time. All of which has nothing whatsoever to do with preventing duplicate records. The PK surrogate key has a unique index, however it does not prevent duplicates *records*, it just prevents duplicate primary key values. Two separate issues. > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or tags. No, a surrogate PK is a pointer. You can in fact have auto-numbers that are not used as the surrogate PK. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 11:22 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > <> > > Ah why not? ;) > > <> > > I would not agree with that. In a relational context, a PK in a relation > by it's very definition would form a unique index. > > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields.>> > > Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled as such, but it certainly does not perform the > function of one. > > As we have discussed in the past, auto numbers are simply pointers or > tags. > > Jim. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 09:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > >My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from being > entered more then once? > > ohhhh don't go there!!! > > PKs and unique indexes are NOT the same thing. Having an autonumber PK does > not in any way relieve > the developer from the responsibility of analyzing for a field or set of > fields which ensure > uniqueness and setting a unique index on those fields. > > That "response" is one usually received from very junior DBAs. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/2/2011 8:04 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: >> Debbie, >> >> I bet you use a natural key in your app without even thinking about it > as >> such. My question would be, how in your app do you prevent a patent from >> being entered more then once? >> >> Jim. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Debbie Elam >> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 09:18 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> I do as well. I have run into problems every time I have used >> (developed by others) databases with natural keys. I will NEVER use >> them for the following reasons: >> >> 1. Real data can ALWAYS change. I do not care how immutable it is >> supposed to be, data changes. Just ran into a problem in reports out of >> a CRM database. One magazine has changed names 3 times in 8 years. >> They still want info tracked together, but the natural key of a short >> code based on the name has changed (sigh). >> 2. Real Data is subject to typos. Even the best typist can realize a >> problem happened after data has been entered. Fix it and the >> relationship is crap without cascade updates. >> 3. Real data is never as unique as you may think. This is why natural >> keys usually evolve into compound keys. Had a patent database that used >> docket numbers as a natural key. As they supported additional >> countries, they added country. As addendum were added to the patent, >> refines were added. Now this 3 field compound key was a nightmare to >> work with. To top it off, you guessed it, problem 1 reared it's head >> too. Rare occurrence, but in a database of almost 100,000 patents, it >> probably occurred a few times a month. Headache every time it happened. >> >> Debbie >> >> On 3/1/2011 1:12 PM, jwcolby wrote: > <> > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fuller.artful at gmail.com Wed Mar 2 15:57:18 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 16:57:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: I have been doing it that way since Access 2000 first introduced ADP files. I never passed through the ODBC stage, just went straight to ADPs SQL Server. I've done a variety of apps this way. The biggest was an app for a large travel agency/event system. Another significant one was for PCB management facilities in Ontario; another was a typical Time/Billing app; another was a safety assessment engineering app that's going nation-wide (that is, Canada) now. I'm so into that mode it never occurs to me to use Access as the Back End any more. If it's on the small side, I'll use SQL Express instead of the full-blown product. Arthur On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 7:56 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > Thanks > I have got to try out Stuart suggestion for updating stored procedures in > SQL Server using ACCESS. > I am not finding any significant differences in speed when using ACCESS > tables and queries versus SQL Server tables and pass through queries, I > assume that is because I am doing my testing on my local machine and not on > a network (or Web). > > Are any of your developing full blown ACCESS/SQL Server applications for > clients? If so what type of an app is it? > From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 2 16:12:40 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 17:12:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, , <78CA23CCEAF341C6B96095A2B8F0D60B@XPS> <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, <> It never does as your modeling a join and not some "thing" like a customer, book, or author. << How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product formula and have to store a quantity as well?>> That's a BOM (Bill of Materials) type structure and a one to many. <> You never would, but if you did it would look like this: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B CreatedDT - D/T But that doesn't make any sense as a many to many record is added at the same time as adding a record on one of the sides represented by the table. For example, when entering a book, a user would be forced to select a "written by" and the linking record to the author would be added at that point. You can't have a book without an author. So you would include a CreatedDT on tblBooks rather then on the linking table. One automatically implies the other. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:47 PM To: Jim Dettman; Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When does a "many to many linking table" cease to be a "simply a many to many linking table" How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product formula and have to store a quantity as well? What about if you subsequently need to store info such as the start date of the link relationship. Do you then add a PK? -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 8:04, Jim Dettman wrote: > table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other > fields would ever be added to it. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 2 16:40:50 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:40:50 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4D6EC772.12133.21C16FA4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Comments inline. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 17:12, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > < many to many linking table" >> > > It never does as your modeling a join and not some "thing" like a > customer, book, or author. > You're not modelling a join - a join is just a programming construct. You are modelling a real world relationship which can have attributes. > << How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product > formula and have to store a quantity as well?>> > > That's a BOM (Bill of Materials) type structure and a one to many. No, it's many to many. Paint Chemical ... Satin White Titanium Dioxide Satin White Water ... Satin Yellow Titaniun Dioxide Satin Yellow Water ... > < date of the link relationship.>> > > You never would, but if you did it would look like this: > I wish I had a buck for every time I've seen "..never would" subseuqnetly happened. > tblBooksAndAuthors > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B > CreatedDT - D/T > > But that doesn't make any sense as a many to many record is added at > the > same time as adding a record on one of the sides represented by the > table. > > For example, when entering a book, a user would be forced to select > a > "written by" and the linking record to the author would be added at > that point. You can't have a book without an author. > > So you would include a CreatedDT on tblBooks rather then on the > linking > table. One automatically implies the other. > I'm talking about the created date of the relationbship, not the objects. For example: Within the Royal Papua Yacht Club we have a number "sub Clubs" which members can join . (Scuba, Deep Sea Fishing, Sailing, Canoe Racing) . I may decide to join the Deep Sea Fishing Club at some point in the future. That join date needs to stored at the link, not in my master record. Members MembPK MembNo MembName membJoinDate ' Joined RPYC CLubs ClubPK ClubName MemberClubs ClubFK MemberFK JoinDate 'Joined the sub-Club From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 2 17:01:15 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 10:01:15 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <5336D60CBE6B4AED9A2B17591DA9015E@nant> Message-ID: <201103022301.p22N1MQo013694@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ haha "become a new "great debate"". That was pretty much what I was thinking. Just when things around here had settled down on the bound / unbound skirmishes. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, 3 March 2011 2:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim -- That our "'consistent' vs. 'inconsistent'" data modeling discussion promise to become a new "great debate" as "bound vs. unbound" and similar debates... Real world is inconsistent or consistent? - no answer? many answers? Should data modeling practice follow real world inconsistency (consistency?) or not? Your and others choice now is to start "consistent vs. inconsistent" thread to find constructive answers when it's worth following and when it's not - for sure there will be no definitive one answer as a result of such a discussion still it could be rather useful... Start it? Yes/No? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 16:04 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, Don't loose sight of the fact that I was specifically talking about a many to many linking table. All the attributes your talking about below would belong in the books table. As this is simply a many to many linking table, no other fields would ever be added to it. I have never found a need to point to a record in a many to many table either, so adding a auto number field just for the reason of "that's always the way I do it" or "because it's consistent", I think is a waste. If this happened to involve tables with millions of records, the addition of another index would mean a pretty sizeable performance hit. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 03:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< <> Have never had a problem yet... >>> Lucky man :) In your sample case with tblBooksAndAuthors the relation table's compound index (AuthorID, BookID) could become non-unique, e.g. when books will get [Edition] field introduced. And you'll have to decide where to put [Edition] (+ [CopyrightDate], ...) fields - into [tblBooksAndAuthors] or into [tblBook] table or into new [tblBookEditions] table. Then you'll have to investigate all your Queries: Joins, Group Bys, ... and related Forms, Reports, VBA code (if any) to see how [Edition] field introduction influenced them. Yes, in the case when [tblBooksAndAuthors] uses dedicated Autonumber field [LinkId] , introduction of [Edition] field would also require to decide in what table to put the new [Edition] field and would also require reinvestigation/refactoring of (some of) Queries, Forms, Reports, VBA code but all the work in that case would be "routine & mechanical". Your customer might also decide (one fine day) that having just one author for a book isn't a "good idea" and that introduction of several authors for a book is a "simple change request"... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 2 ????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Shamil, <> Have never had a problem yet... Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 02:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim -- <<< and eliminate an index? If so, why not? >>> In my opinion good data model should be consistent - therefore all and every table's PK should be an Autonumber/Identity column, even linking/relation tables. If not - be prepared that inconsistent data model design will bring you a lot of troubles in long run. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 1 ????? 2011 ?. 21:40 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 17:04:10 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 18:04:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> My definition of a PK is: 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. Candidate keys perform function #1 above. There may be several candidate keys. They cannot all be the PK because there can be only one PK! Whether you use a candidate key or a surrogate key as your PK, selecting it as you PK means it CAN AND IN FACT does both. So a PK is a PK simply because it can do both 1 and 2 above AND you select it to be your PK. It does *not* have to be used as a FK to be a PK. However IF you need a FK in a child table to link back to the parent table, then you are *supposed to* use the PK. If you are a fruit or nut, you could use any candidate key to do that. You could even use one candidate key as the FK in table ABC and a second candidate key as your PK in table XYZ. You would of course be a fruit or nut to do that. In fact (IMHO) you would be a fruit or nut to use a natural key at all. ;) An autonumber field with a unique index on it is automatically a candidate key. It can be used to uniquely identify any given record in the table - #1 above. However it in no way guarantees the uniqueness of the *data* in the table. Only a unique index covering a set of fields which, taken together guarantees unique data, will in fact enforce data uniqueness. A natural PK, by definition, performs both. By making it the PK, SQL Server automatically creates a unique index on the entire set of fields, and guarantees *data* uniqueness and, while it is at it, calls it the PK. If we are going to use a surrogate PK, then we *still* have to perform the analysis to find at least one candidate key, and we have to manually create a unique index to cover that candidate key (set of fields). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 4:47 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from > the responsibility of > analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a > unique index on those > fields.>> > > >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled > as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. > > What? It certainly can. >>> > > What then is your definition of a PK? > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 2 20:11:33 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2011 21:11:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] AMD Shows Off 16-Core 'Interlagos' Reference Design - Legit Reviews Message-ID: <4D6EF8D5.7060804@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://www.legitreviews.com/news/10164/ From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 09:02:40 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 10:02:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, <> Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. In fact it goes to the very heart of a relational design. When you model data relationally, it is the logical organization of data and its actual meaning that is being worked with. The aspect of how that model is physically implemented is not a consideration at all. With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Rows are instances of whatever your modeling and columns are the attributes. The combination of one or more attributes *must* yield a unique key. If not, then you don't have a proper relation and must add more attributes. When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. To do the latter, you need to tack on another index, which represents either the true primary key for the data, one of the candidates, or a super key. However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go in and change it at will. However if it is assigned to the object it's associated with and turned into an attribute, then it becomes a surrogate PK. An example of that would be handing it to a customer and using it as a customer code. Once I do that, I now cannot go in at will and change it now without informing the customer. Its been given meaning in a logical context. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 06:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server My definition of a PK is: 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. Candidate keys perform function #1 above. There may be several candidate keys. They cannot all be the PK because there can be only one PK! Whether you use a candidate key or a surrogate key as your PK, selecting it as you PK means it CAN AND IN FACT does both. So a PK is a PK simply because it can do both 1 and 2 above AND you select it to be your PK. It does *not* have to be used as a FK to be a PK. However IF you need a FK in a child table to link back to the parent table, then you are *supposed to* use the PK. If you are a fruit or nut, you could use any candidate key to do that. You could even use one candidate key as the FK in table ABC and a second candidate key as your PK in table XYZ. You would of course be a fruit or nut to do that. In fact (IMHO) you would be a fruit or nut to use a natural key at all. ;) An autonumber field with a unique index on it is automatically a candidate key. It can be used to uniquely identify any given record in the table - #1 above. However it in no way guarantees the uniqueness of the *data* in the table. Only a unique index covering a set of fields which, taken together guarantees unique data, will in fact enforce data uniqueness. A natural PK, by definition, performs both. By making it the PK, SQL Server automatically creates a unique index on the entire set of fields, and guarantees *data* uniqueness and, while it is at it, calls it the PK. If we are going to use a surrogate PK, then we *still* have to perform the analysis to find at least one candidate key, and we have to manually create a unique index to cover that candidate key (set of fields). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/2/2011 4:47 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << > << Having an auto number PK does not in any way relieve the developer from > the responsibility of > analyzing for a field or set of fields which ensure uniqueness and setting a > unique index on those > fields.>> > > >Yes because it's a misnomer to call a auto number a PK or even a surrogate > key. It may be labeled > as such, but it certainly does not perform the function of one. > > What? It certainly can. >>> > > What then is your definition of a PK? > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 09:02:40 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 10:02:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6EC772.12133.21C16FA4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D6EACCA.4698.21594F95@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <4D6EC772.12133.21C16FA4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, <> I certainly would not model it that way. I have always done that as a one to many BOM structure: tblBOM BOMID - Autonumber - PK AssemblyID - Long - FK to tblItems - CK1-A LineNumber - Long - CK1-b ComponetID - Long - FK to tblItems QPA - Decimal EffectiveDate - DT IneffectiveDate - DT and build up a where used index on the fly based on effective/ineffective dates. <> I understand your point and you are correct. You could add the date (along with a bunch of other attributes) to the linking table and at that point it would no longer be a "simple" linking table. However that does not change my original point: the need to add an auto number PK simply because "I always do it that way" is not required. The pairing of ClubFK and MemberFK work fine as a primary key. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 05:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Comments inline. -- Stuart On 2 Mar 2011 at 17:12, Jim Dettman wrote: > Stuart, > > < many to many linking table" >> > > It never does as your modeling a join and not some "thing" like a > customer, book, or author. > You're not modelling a join - a join is just a programming construct. You are modelling a real world relationship which can have attributes. > << How about when you are linking chemicals and formulas for a product > formula and have to store a quantity as well?>> > > That's a BOM (Bill of Materials) type structure and a one to many. No, it's many to many. Paint Chemical ... Satin White Titanium Dioxide Satin White Water ... Satin Yellow Titaniun Dioxide Satin Yellow Water ... > < date of the link relationship.>> > > You never would, but if you did it would look like this: > I wish I had a buck for every time I've seen "..never would" subseuqnetly happened. > tblBooksAndAuthors > AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A > BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B > CreatedDT - D/T > > But that doesn't make any sense as a many to many record is added at > the > same time as adding a record on one of the sides represented by the > table. > > For example, when entering a book, a user would be forced to select > a > "written by" and the linking record to the author would be added at > that point. You can't have a book without an author. > > So you would include a CreatedDT on tblBooks rather then on the > linking > table. One automatically implies the other. > I'm talking about the created date of the relationbship, not the objects. For example: Within the Royal Papua Yacht Club we have a number "sub Clubs" which members can join . (Scuba, Deep Sea Fishing, Sailing, Canoe Racing) . I may decide to join the Deep Sea Fishing Club at some point in the future. That join date needs to stored at the link, not in my master record. Members MembPK MembNo MembName membJoinDate ' Joined RPYC CLubs ClubPK ClubName MemberClubs ClubFK MemberFK JoinDate 'Joined the sub-Club -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 3 10:58:40 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 11:58:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: " However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go in and change it at will." No you cannot just go in and change it at will. You also have to go find all the records in all the tables that use that Autonumber value as the foreign key back to the table they are relate to. So that's why I don't make an Autonumber PK any kind of meaningful attribute for a record. Real data used to construct Natural PKs can change too, and then it gets messy. Lambert's 2 cents. From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 12:40:33 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 13:40:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> Lambert, <> Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. However I could do that at any time. Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. You still could at that point change it, but not without changing something else. It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all assets. New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits instead of the current 8. I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without going to every asset and re-labeling it. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 11:59 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server " However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go in and change it at will." No you cannot just go in and change it at will. You also have to go find all the records in all the tables that use that Autonumber value as the foreign key back to the table they are relate to. So that's why I don't make an Autonumber PK any kind of meaningful attribute for a record. Real data used to construct Natural PKs can change too, and then it gets messy. Lambert's 2 cents. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 3 13:00:20 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 11:00:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net> Stuart, I missed that. What was the day of the message? Are you saying that an app will break if it uses ADO and is moved to a Win7 SP1 machine? Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 12:53 PM To: Tony Septav; Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility with Win7 SP1? :-) If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have a lot of extra work to do :-( On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and > ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL > Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in > Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do > you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say > to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user > to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is > I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have > to do some rethinking here? -- AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 3 13:31:14 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 14:31:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> Message-ID: I agree 100%.You are describing the reasons why record attribute should *not* be used as primary keys, IMHO. That is precisely why *my* primary keys have no meaning. They are just autonumbers (like John's) and I never have any need to change them. If I need a "Serial Number" or "Order Number" or any such meaningful value then that will be generated by a function that is "aware" of what's happening in the real world (like what was the last order number issued). Lambert :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Lambert, <> Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. However I could do that at any time. Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. You still could at that point change it, but not without changing something else. It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all assets. New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits instead of the current 8. I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without going to every asset and re-labeling it. Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 13:46:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 14:46:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, Pretty much nonsense in my book. > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. (just one example) http://www.1keydata.com/sql/sql-primary-key.html >>>*A primary key is used to uniquely identify each row in a table.* My PK does that! >>>It can either be part of the actual record itself , *or it can be an artificial field (one that has nothing to do with the actual record).* That would be my PK. In MY world, a PK is a FK in another table. It is a pointer back to the parent. That is it's only purpose! PERIOD. (full stop) >In fact it goes to the very heart of a relational design. And has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with the pointers between records. PERIOD. (full stop) YOU (personally and individually) MAKE it have something to do with the pointer, but I do not. And I do not have to, and neither do you. You CHOOSE to make them "related" but they are not. > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Yad yada yada *ad nasium* (meaning this crap makes me physically ill). And having absolutely NOTHING to do with the pointer between records. I have been doing this since the early 90s. Please save this for your intro to databases class. > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. Hmmm, I guess you need to take up your argument with Microsoft, not me. I open Access and create an autonumber and click a button and MICROSOFT calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I open up SQL Server, and I create a autoincrement and click a button and Microsoft calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I drag and drop this PK between the parent and child and the database engine sets up rules designed to enforce referential integrity. I guess what I am saying is I simply don't give a rat's patuty about academic horsepucky. What I care about is that I have a pointer and I have a unique index on a set of fields which guarantees *data* uniqueness and guess what... The two are not related. and... It works! So I have proven that *my* pointer and *my* data uniqueness are completely and totally unrelated, and *you* are simply arguing that I cannot call it a PK. *Don't care*. *Take it up with Microsoft*. When they stop calling it a PK so will I. I will then call it whatever they call it. In the meantime, we (as a functioning society of database designers) need a common vocabulary. Microsoft is calling my pointer a PK so I pretty much have to or I have to copy your page of horse pucky into every email to explain myself. *not happening* Jim, this happens whenever this subject comes up. Some (typically) oldtimer who went through college back when Codd was a young man and the god of database starts talking in academic terms, tuples and relations and all of that stuff. I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple in my life, it makes no difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. I understand what goes in each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to 3rd normal. I have read many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood (at the time I read it) *some* of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric. If I sound uninterested, or even argumentative, it is simply because I find this whole thing quite easy at the real life level, and I have used (what I was told to call) surrogate PKs since oh... about 1994 and it just works. So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 10:02 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > < > 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record > 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. > > NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE > COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. >>> > > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. In fact it goes to the > very heart of a relational design. When you model data relationally, it is > the logical organization of data and its actual meaning that is being worked > with. The aspect of how that model is physically implemented is not a > consideration at all. > > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Rows are > instances of whatever your modeling and columns are the attributes. The > combination of one or more attributes *must* yield a unique key. If not, > then you don't have a proper relation and must add more attributes. > > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as > a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row > uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. To do the latter, you > need to tack on another index, which represents either the true primary key > for the data, one of the candidates, or a super key. > > However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object > it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. > "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just > applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer > or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go > in and change it at will. > > However if it is assigned to the object it's associated with and turned > into an attribute, then it becomes a surrogate PK. An example of that > would be handing it to a customer and using it as a customer code. Once I > do that, I now cannot go in at will and change it now without informing the > customer. Its been given meaning in a logical context. > > Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 13:51:52 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 14:51:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> Message-ID: <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. You are allowed to do what you are doing but you are not allowed to *call it* a primary key. Jim hasn't told us what we are supposed to call it, nor has he informed Microsoft that they are not allowed to call it a PK. Unfortunately (for Jim) Microsoft and pretty much the rest of the world *does* call it a PK. As far as I can tell, Jim is tilting at windmills. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 2:31 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > I agree 100%.You are describing the reasons why record attribute should *not* be used as primary keys, IMHO. That is precisely why *my* primary keys have no meaning. They are just autonumbers (like John's) and I never have any need to change them. If I need a "Serial Number" or "Order Number" or any such meaningful value then that will be generated by a function that is "aware" of what's happening in the real world (like what was the last order number issued). > > Lambert :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:41 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Lambert, > > <> > > Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. However I could do that at any time. > > Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. You still could at that point change it, but not without changing something else. > It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. > > For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all assets. > New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits instead of the current 8. > > I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without going to every asset and re-labeling it. > > Jim. > From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 3 14:10:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 15:10:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is just silly.>> That's not the point. <> So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 02:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server LOL, Pretty much nonsense in my book. > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. (just one example) http://www.1keydata.com/sql/sql-primary-key.html >>>*A primary key is used to uniquely identify each row in a table.* My PK does that! >>>It can either be part of the actual record itself , *or it can be an artificial field (one that has nothing to do with the actual record).* That would be my PK. In MY world, a PK is a FK in another table. It is a pointer back to the parent. That is it's only purpose! PERIOD. (full stop) >In fact it goes to the very heart of a relational design. And has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with the pointers between records. PERIOD. (full stop) YOU (personally and individually) MAKE it have something to do with the pointer, but I do not. And I do not have to, and neither do you. You CHOOSE to make them "related" but they are not. > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Yad yada yada *ad nasium* (meaning this crap makes me physically ill). And having absolutely NOTHING to do with the pointer between records. I have been doing this since the early 90s. Please save this for your intro to databases class. > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. Hmmm, I guess you need to take up your argument with Microsoft, not me. I open Access and create an autonumber and click a button and MICROSOFT calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I open up SQL Server, and I create a autoincrement and click a button and Microsoft calls it a PK. Therefore I call it a PK. I drag and drop this PK between the parent and child and the database engine sets up rules designed to enforce referential integrity. I guess what I am saying is I simply don't give a rat's patuty about academic horsepucky. What I care about is that I have a pointer and I have a unique index on a set of fields which guarantees *data* uniqueness and guess what... The two are not related. and... It works! So I have proven that *my* pointer and *my* data uniqueness are completely and totally unrelated, and *you* are simply arguing that I cannot call it a PK. *Don't care*. *Take it up with Microsoft*. When they stop calling it a PK so will I. I will then call it whatever they call it. In the meantime, we (as a functioning society of database designers) need a common vocabulary. Microsoft is calling my pointer a PK so I pretty much have to or I have to copy your page of horse pucky into every email to explain myself. *not happening* Jim, this happens whenever this subject comes up. Some (typically) oldtimer who went through college back when Codd was a young man and the god of database starts talking in academic terms, tuples and relations and all of that stuff. I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple in my life, it makes no difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. I understand what goes in each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to 3rd normal. I have read many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood (at the time I read it) *some* of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric. If I sound uninterested, or even argumentative, it is simply because I find this whole thing quite easy at the real life level, and I have used (what I was told to call) surrogate PKs since oh... about 1994 and it just works. So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is just silly. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 10:02 AM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > < > 1) A field or set of fields which uniquely identifies any given record > 2) *AND IS USED TO DO THAT*. > > NOTICE that I am not discussing *data* uniqueness here. *THEY ARE > COMPLETELY SEPARATE ISSUES*. >>> > > Data uniqueness though is not a separate issue. In fact it goes to the > very heart of a relational design. When you model data relationally, it is > the logical organization of data and its actual meaning that is being worked > with. The aspect of how that model is physically implemented is not a > consideration at all. > > With a relational design, you start with a relation (a table). Rows are > instances of whatever your modeling and columns are the attributes. The > combination of one or more attributes *must* yield a unique key. If not, > then you don't have a proper relation and must add more attributes. > > When you simply add an auto number to a table, even though it is labeled as > a "PK" it does not perform the job of one, because it only identifies a row > uniquely in a physical aspect, not a logical one. To do the latter, you > need to tack on another index, which represents either the true primary key > for the data, one of the candidates, or a super key. > > However it can be made into a surrogate PK by assigning it to the object > it's associated with, or in other words, making it an attribute. > "Surrogate" means "to take the place of" and an auto number when it's just > applied to a table cannot do that because it has no meaning. It's a pointer > or tag in a physical context and that's it. Yes it is unique, but I can go > in and change it at will. > > However if it is assigned to the object it's associated with and turned > into an attribute, then it becomes a surrogate PK. An example of that > would be handing it to a customer and using it as a customer code. Once I > do that, I now cannot go in at will and change it now without informing the > customer. Its been given meaning in a logical context. > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From delam at zyterra.com Thu Mar 3 15:04:58 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 15:04:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> This reminds me of a story that may help: A professor in college was not a native English speaker. He took a class when he came to the US as a grad student. Being a class for science majors in English as a second language, physics words figured prominently. The instructor told them the difference between revolving and rotation. Rotation spins on an axis and revolving is moving the whole object around a central point. My professor asked why a revolver was named thus. The instructor (who was English) started muttering about bloody Americans. The moral: it may be proper English, but I will never be understood if I go into a gunshop and ask for a Rotator. Likewise, Jim will never be understood if he insists that an autonuber can never be a PK. Jim, you have met your revolver. Debbie. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 3, 2011, at 1:51 PM, jwcolby wrote: > LOL. You are allowed to do what you are doing but you are not > allowed to *call it* a primary key. > > Jim hasn't told us what we are supposed to call it, nor has he > informed Microsoft that they are not allowed to call it a PK. > Unfortunately (for Jim) Microsoft and pretty much the rest of the > world *does* call it a PK. As far as I can tell, Jim is tilting at > windmills. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/3/2011 2:31 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: >> I agree 100%.You are describing the reasons why record attribute >> should *not* be used as primary keys, IMHO. That is precisely why >> *my* primary keys have no meaning. They are just autonumbers (like >> John's) and I never have any need to change them. If I need a >> "Serial Number" or "Order Number" or any such meaningful value then >> that will be generated by a function that is "aware" of what's >> happening in the real world (like what was the last order number >> issued). >> >> Lambert :-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- >> bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman >> Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 1:41 PM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server >> >> Lambert, >> >> <> go find all the records in all the tables that use that Autonumber >> value as the foreign key back to the table they are relate to.>> >> >> Sorry if that wasn't obvious, but yes certainly you would. >> However I could do that at any time. >> >> Once it's turned into an attribute though, it takes on meaning. >> You still could at that point change it, but not without changing >> something else. >> It's no longer a matter of simply updating the data. >> >> For example, an asset tag number, which has been applied to all >> assets. >> New admin comes in and now wants all the numbers to be 4 digits >> instead of the current 8. >> >> I can't simply go into the data and decrease the digits without >> going to every asset and re-labeling it. >> >> Jim. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 15:06:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 13:06:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net> References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6EAE3C.16299.215EF777@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net> Message-ID: What is the exact problem? I am not experiencing any problems with any of our ADPs using A2010 on W7SP1. I use a lot of ADO calls on my unbound forms. D On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Doug Murphy wrote: > Stuart, > > I missed that. What was the day of the message? Are you saying that an app > will break if it uses ADO and is moved to a Win7 SP1 machine? > > Doug > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 12:53 PM > To: Tony Septav; Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility with > Win7 SP1? :-) > > If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have a lot > of > extra work to do :-( > > > On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > > > Hey All > > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries and > > ADO connections all working. One question is why would you link to SQL > > Server tables in Access when you can do everything with ptq and ADO in > > Access? Another question is how do you handle subforms and tabs, do > > you just simply link to SQL Server tables? From my research they say > > to keep the data simplified on a main form and then allow the user > > to pick a record and then display a more detailed form. The thing is > > I like subforms and tabs, and use them where appropriate. Do I have > > to do some rethinking here? -- AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 15:08:47 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 13:08:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS> <4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> Message-ID: :) On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Debbie wrote: > This reminds me of a story that may help: > > A professor in college was not a native English speaker. He took a class > when he came to the US as a grad student. Being a class for science majors > in English as a second language, physics words figured prominently. The > instructor told them the difference between revolving and rotation. Rotation > spins on an axis and revolving is moving the whole object around a central > point. > My professor asked why a revolver was named thus. > The instructor (who was English) started muttering about bloody Americans. > > The moral: it may be proper English, but I will never be understood if I go > into a gunshop and ask for a Rotator. > Likewise, Jim will never be understood if he insists that an autonuber can > never be a PK. > > Jim, you have met your revolver. > > Debbie. > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 15:14:21 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:14:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? ROTFL. That would be you. I have a high school education and some hours of community college. Life is strange sometimes. Circumstances didn't align for me getting a degree. My wife has one though, does that count? So, we have established who is the educated one. But I have read the books; I just strictly differentiate between academics and real world. And I have made my living in designing databases since 1994. It has been a good living. And I have made a living learning and writing applications in numerous programming languages. And I read virtually every day to stay abreast of what I need to know to do my job well. So let's just say I know your terms, I understand your terms, and I could care less about your terms. So whip out the "I'm educated" thing on someone else 'cause it doesn't do a thing for me. And by the way you still are not telling us (and Microsoft) what we are supposed to call this ... uh... hm... I don't know what to call it now... you know... the autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. Man that just sounds so... uneducated. ;) Believe me I *do* want to know so that I can avoid the next peeing match. I will try to insert your favorite name for this object in the discussion from here on out. Just an FYI, I really do know and understand normalization. I really do know and understand candidate keys. I really do search for a candidate key to cover with a unique index to enforce data uniqueness. I really do understand multi-field primary keys. I made an ... well... I hesitate to call it... an "educated" decision to *not* use them in favor of the ... here we go again... that autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. You don't know how sad it makes me to know I can no longer tell people I make "educated" decisions. 8( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 3:10 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is > just silly.>> > > That's not the point. > > <> > > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and > the other not; wonder which one that is? > > Jim. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 3 15:23:38 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 07:23:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6E48BE.3050307@nanaimo.ark.com>, <005901cbd9d5$3e482cd0$bad88670$@cox.net>, Message-ID: <4D7006DA.9533.26A11DC7@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Running on Win7 SP1 is not a problem. Compile an application on Win7 SP1 and it may not run on earlier OSs -- Stuart On 3 Mar 2011 at 13:06, David McAfee wrote: > What is the exact problem? > > I am not experiencing any problems with any of our ADPs using A2010 on > W7SP1. > > I use a lot of ADO calls on my unbound forms. > > D > > > > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Doug Murphy > wrote: > > > Stuart, > > > > I missed that. What was the day of the message? Are you saying that > > an app will break if it uses ADO and is moved to a Win7 SP1 machine? > > > > Doug > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > > McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 12:53 PM To: Tony Septav; > > Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: > > [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Did you see my posting about MS breaking ADO backward compatibility > > with Win7 SP1? :-) > > > > If you want tabs and sub-forms without binding your data , you have > > a lot of extra work to do :-( > > > > > > On 2 Mar 2011 at 5:40, Tony Septav wrote: > > > > > Hey All > > > I have got unbound forms, combo/list boxes, pass-through queries > > > and ADO connections all working. One question is why would you > > > link to SQL Server tables in Access when you can do everything > > > with ptq and ADO in Access? Another question is how do you handle > > > subforms and tabs, do you just simply link to SQL Server tables? > > > From my research they say to keep the data simplified on a main > > > form and then allow the user to pick a record and then display a > > > more detailed form. The thing is I like subforms and tabs, and > > > use them where appropriate. Do I have to do some rethinking here? > > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 15:43:52 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 16:43:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Win7Sp1 and ADO In-Reply-To: <4D6D8F84.26700.1CFEF5CB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6A54F8.30203@nanaimo.ark.com>, <47607DE377CD4E23B74E0F2CB91FEAF6@creativesystemdesigns.com>, <4D6D8760.7552.1CDF2810@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D6D8F84.26700.1CFEF5CB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D700B98.2090106@colbyconsulting.com> Holy cow! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 7:29 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en- > US/windowsgeneraldevelopmentissues/thread/3a4ce946-effa-4f77-98a6-34f11c6b5a13 From patrinod at gmail.com Thu Mar 3 15:47:58 2011 From: patrinod at gmail.com (Den Patrino) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 16:47:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect Strings Message-ID: Stuart ... Thanks for the replies. I hadn't thought of having to create a DSN on all the pc's that would run the FE application. Using a DSN-less connection in the FE is definitely the way to go. Thanks, Patty Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:59:10 +1000 From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Server Connect strings Message-ID: <4D6EAF9E.15472.21645AAC at stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I always use full DSN-less connection strings for portability of the application. No need to worry about whether the DSN is present on every workstation and it's easy to change in an update to the FE if you need to change your connection ( say been a live and a training BE database). (A very common typo in the interent age, it's DSN (data source name) not DNS ( domain name system) -- Stuart From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 3 16:58:46 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 16:58:46 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How to Prevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <6E97E85FCBBA41418B37937D7ABBE04B@XPS><4D6FF158.5040109@colbyconsulting.com> <5195E99C-7D2C-488B-97D7-1C214E725820@zyterra.com> Message-ID: We are putting together a small Access 2007 Application which will automatically send Emails when orders are received and when orders are shipped. Everything seems to be working nicely in our initial system tests. However, this is new territory for us and we have some concern that our automatically generated Emails will be categorized as spam by the various Emails programs that are used by our customers who will be receiving our Emails. Admittedly, these questions are more "Email" questions than "Access" questions, but I thought that some of you many have run into these issues previously and may be able to point us in the right direction. What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as spam? In the Email header info, I can see the computer name like this... from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com We would like to use an Email "From" address like "Order_Confirmation at AcmeLtd.com. Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam? Again, this is a new area for us. We have tried to find info on the internet, but no relevant articles have been found so far. Thanks in advance for your help, insights, advice. Brad PS. A couple weeks ago, my wife and I visited the Hormel Spam Museum in Austin, Minnesota. One of their many displays is a video of the Monty Python "Spam" skit which some people claim was the origin of the word "spam" (as in unwanted Email). From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Mar 3 17:45:39 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 00:45:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> Message-ID: <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 1. marts 2011 21:23 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Lambert, It needs a unique index, which the Author/Book combination provides. Not sure why the original post got formatted that way, but it should have looked like this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B Which might be clearer. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 01:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 3 18:26:46 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 03:26:46 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> Message-ID: <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 3 18:39:35 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 10:39:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How to Prevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, Message-ID: <4D7034C7.30279.2754844A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> "What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as spam?" Don't use "spammy" Subjects. Don't use ALL CAPITALS. Make sure that there is a plain text part. "Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam?" The internet headers the From: header are two different things. The From: address needs to be a real email address. How are you setting it. On 3 Mar 2011 at 16:58, Brad Marks wrote: > We are putting together a small Access 2007 Application which will > automatically send Emails when orders are received and when orders are > shipped. > > Everything seems to be working nicely in our initial system tests. > > However, this is new territory for us and we have some concern that > our automatically generated Emails will be categorized as spam by the > various Emails programs that are used by our customers who will be > receiving our Emails. > > Admittedly, these questions are more "Email" questions than "Access" > questions, but I thought that some of you many have run into these > issues previously and may be able to point us in the right direction. > > What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as > spam? > > In the Email header info, I can see the computer name like this... > > from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com > > We would like to use an Email "From" address like > "Order_Confirmation at AcmeLtd.com. > > Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to > reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam? > > Again, this is a new area for us. We have tried to find info on the > internet, but no relevant articles have been found so far. > > Thanks in advance for your help, insights, advice. > > Brad > > PS. A couple weeks ago, my wife and I visited the Hormel Spam Museum > in Austin, Minnesota. One of their many displays is a video of the > Monty Python "Spam" skit which some people claim was the origin of the > word "spam" (as in unwanted Email). > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 3 19:09:57 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 19:09:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How toPrevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D7034C7.30279.2754844A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Stuart, Thanks for your advice. We are using a third-party Email tool called Febooti. This tool allows us to set the "From" field. >From our tests, I can look at the Email header info. In there I see "from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com" in addition to the normal "From" field. This got me wondering if we perhaps need to rename our "Email Server" so that it is the same as what we are plugging into the "From" field. Maybe I am over-thinking this. The interesting thing is that in some of our tests, the generated Email ended up in the Spam folder for recipients within our office. This really made me wonder how often our customers would have our Emails landing in their Spam folders. Thanks again, Brad PS. Looks like my question on Spam will not raise nearly the excitement that the Primary Key debate has raised :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thu 3/3/2011 6:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Automated Emails from Access - Questions on How toPrevent Emails from Being Categorized As Spam "What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as spam?" Don't use "spammy" Subjects. Don't use ALL CAPITALS. Make sure that there is a plain text part. "Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam?" The internet headers the From: header are two different things. The From: address needs to be a real email address. How are you setting it. On 3 Mar 2011 at 16:58, Brad Marks wrote: > We are putting together a small Access 2007 Application which will > automatically send Emails when orders are received and when orders are > shipped. > > Everything seems to be working nicely in our initial system tests. > > However, this is new territory for us and we have some concern that > our automatically generated Emails will be categorized as spam by the > various Emails programs that are used by our customers who will be > receiving our Emails. > > Admittedly, these questions are more "Email" questions than "Access" > questions, but I thought that some of you many have run into these > issues previously and may be able to point us in the right direction. > > What can be done to prevent an outgoing Email from being classified as > spam? > > In the Email header info, I can see the computer name like this... > > from dell-999 ([0.0.0.0]) by AcmeLtd.com > > We would like to use an Email "From" address like > "Order_Confirmation at AcmeLtd.com. > > Do we need to have the "computer name" equal to the "From" in order to > reduce the chances of our Emails being classified as spam? > > Again, this is a new area for us. We have tried to find info on the > internet, but no relevant articles have been found so far. > > Thanks in advance for your help, insights, advice. > > Brad > > PS. A couple weeks ago, my wife and I visited the Hormel Spam Museum > in Austin, Minnesota. One of their many displays is a video of the > Monty Python "Spam" skit which some people claim was the origin of the > word "spam" (as in unwanted Email). > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From michael at mattysconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 20:22:55 2011 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 21:22:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? Can we get back to the debate, please? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? ROTFL. That would be you. I have a high school education and some hours of community college. Life is strange sometimes. Circumstances didn't align for me getting a degree. My wife has one though, does that count? So, we have established who is the educated one. But I have read the books; I just strictly differentiate between academics and real world. And I have made my living in designing databases since 1994. It has been a good living. And I have made a living learning and writing applications in numerous programming languages. And I read virtually every day to stay abreast of what I need to know to do my job well. So let's just say I know your terms, I understand your terms, and I could care less about your terms. So whip out the "I'm educated" thing on someone else 'cause it doesn't do a thing for me. And by the way you still are not telling us (and Microsoft) what we are supposed to call this ... uh... hm... I don't know what to call it now... you know... the autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. Man that just sounds so... uneducated. ;) Believe me I *do* want to know so that I can avoid the next peeing match. I will try to insert your favorite name for this object in the discussion from here on out. Just an FYI, I really do know and understand normalization. I really do know and understand candidate keys. I really do search for a candidate key to cover with a unique index to enforce data uniqueness. I really do understand multi-field primary keys. I made an ... well... I hesitate to call it... an "educated" decision to *not* use them in favor of the ... here we go again... that autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. You don't know how sad it makes me to know I can no longer tell people I make "educated" decisions. 8( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 3:10 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is > just silly.>> > > That's not the point. > > <> > > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is > educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 20:44:27 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 21:44:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> Message-ID: <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> AFAICT there is no debate other than what to call the auto-increment pointer thingy. As soon as we stop calling it a PK Jim seems to be happy. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 9:22 PM, Michael Mattys wrote: > > Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? > I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? > > Can we get back to the debate, please? > > Michael R Mattys > Business Process Developers > www.mattysconsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 3 21:45:18 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 03 Mar 2011 22:45:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] In Pictures: 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - Forbes.com Message-ID: <4D70604E.9060805@colbyconsulting.com> -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://www.forbes.com/2011/02/23/dumbest-warning-labels-entrepreneurs-sales-marketing-warning-labels_slide.html From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 3 21:46:35 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 13:46:35 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway>, <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D70609B.25766.27FFBBC2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If you chose to use an auto-increment pointer thingy as the primary key for relationship purposes, then by definition - it is a PK. If Jim choses to use one real world value or a composite collection of them as the primary key for relationship purposes, then that too is a PK. The PK is whatever *you* chose as the "primary" way to uniquely identify records. The choice between the two ways of doing so comes down to a personal decision by the designer. Neither way is "correct" or "the only way". All I know is that in my experience, I've seen complications/problems caused by using natural keys as the PK, I've never had a problem with an autonumber so that's what I chose to use. -- Stuart On 3 Mar 2011 at 21:44, jwcolby wrote: > AFAICT there is no debate other than what to call the auto-increment > pointer thingy. As soon as we stop calling it a PK Jim seems to be > happy. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/3/2011 9:22 PM, Michael Mattys wrote: > > > > Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? > > I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? > > > > Can we get back to the debate, please? > > > > Michael R Mattys > > Business Process Developers > > www.mattysconsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 4 04:05:02 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 13:05:02 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D70609B.25766.27FFBBC2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway>, <4D70520B.2010900@colbyconsulting.com> <4D70609B.25766.27FFBBC2@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Hi Stuart -- <<< I've never had a problem with an autonumber >>> "There is no free cheese in this world" you know :) - replication could create subtle collision issues when autonumbers used - and that would be another kind of collision from the one which could "arise its ugly head" when natural PKs are used; - memory overhead is another issue as Jim noted ("consistent data modelers" do neglect it); - ... Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 6:47 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server If you chose to use an auto-increment pointer thingy as the primary key for relationship purposes, then by definition - it is a PK. If Jim choses to use one real world value or a composite collection of them as the primary key for relationship purposes, then that too is a PK. The PK is whatever *you* chose as the "primary" way to uniquely identify records. The choice between the two ways of doing so comes down to a personal decision by the designer. Neither way is "correct" or "the only way". All I know is that in my experience, I've seen complications/problems caused by using natural keys as the PK, I've never had a problem with an autonumber so that's what I chose to use. -- Stuart On 3 Mar 2011 at 21:44, jwcolby wrote: > AFAICT there is no debate other than what to call the auto-increment > pointer thingy. As soon as we stop calling it a PK Jim seems to be > happy. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/3/2011 9:22 PM, Michael Mattys wrote: > > > > Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? > > I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? > > > > Can we get back to the debate, please? > > > > Michael R Mattys > > Business Process Developers > > www.mattysconsulting.com > -- From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Mar 4 06:30:10 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 04:30:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: <4D70DB52.7030306@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All Come on now. PK this and PK that, very very interesting discussion. In my younger years I got a job with Fish and Wildlife. I would be doing field work for a branch office about 100 miles from where I lived. I was told when I get there the CO would meet me and describe the area I would be working in. Now coming from a military background CO meant the Commanding Officer. As a young sprout all the way driving up there I was thinking "Hey Zeus first day on the job and I am going to be meeting with the Commanding Officer, very cool." Turned out when I got there that CO meant Conservation Officer (wildlife cop). Sorry just trying to lighten things up, true story though. From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 07:53:04 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 07:53:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: In Pictures: 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - Forbes.com Message-ID: <001201cbda73$7cc26540$76472fc0$@comcast.net> These seem dumb, but the companies know that. The labels are there because there is some government requirement, or because someone tried to do that, got hurt, and sued (like blow drying your hair while asleep?). I agree with the deer crossing signs - lots of deer where I live and drivers need to know (1 dead deer = 1 totaled car). But we also need car crossing signs so the deer know to be careful too. LOL! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 9:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] In Pictures: 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - 25 Stunningly Dumb Warning Labels - Forbes.com -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com http://www.forbes.com/2011/02/23/dumbest-warning-labels-entrepreneurs-sales- marketing-warning-labels_slide.html -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 4 08:09:02 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 15:09:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Asger et al So true. Had to maintain a system with up to five-field compound PKs. Terrible. /gustav >>> ab-mi at post3.tele.dk 04-03-2011 00:45 >>> Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger From Gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 4 08:10:08 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 15:10:08 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Shamil et al This is where GUIDs come in. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 04-03-2011 11:05 >>> Hi Stuart -- <<< I've never had a problem with an autonumber >>> "There is no free cheese in this world" you know :) - replication could create subtle collision issues when autonumbers used - and that would be another kind of collision from the one which could "arise its ugly head" when natural PKs are used; - memory overhead is another issue as Jim noted ("consistent data modelers" do neglect it); - ... Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Thank you. -- Shamil From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 4 08:20:53 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 17:20:53 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav -- I meant Alternative (Natural) Keys Collisions with PKs ((Random) Autonumbers or GUIDs) having different values. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 17:10 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Shamil et al This is where GUIDs come in. /gustav >>> shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru 04-03-2011 11:05 >>> Hi Stuart -- <<< I've never had a problem with an autonumber >>> "There is no free cheese in this world" you know :) - replication could create subtle collision issues when autonumbers used - and that would be another kind of collision from the one which could "arise its ugly head" when natural PKs are used; - memory overhead is another issue as Jim noted ("consistent data modelers" do neglect it); - ... Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Thank you. -- Shamil From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 11:43:48 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 12:43:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: NUMA memory, dual sockets and memory usage Message-ID: <4D7124D4.9000903@colbyconsulting.com> I built a server with dual cpu sockets but I only populated one side and put all of the memory in that side (8) 4 gig dimms. If I were to put another process in the other socket, what would happen in the case where only a single core in one chip needed as much memory as possible. I assume that it could access the memory on the other socket through the CPU on that socket? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 11:44:41 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 12:44:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... Message-ID: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the other day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just could not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a control, get it set up the way you want - font, font size, back color etc - and then format / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they purchased 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know anything before I go upgrade them. AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any other caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 12:05:33 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 12:05:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... In-Reply-To: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> I don't think that labels have a default property - text boxes do. For a text box, the default value in in properties, under Data. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the other day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just could not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a control, get it set up the way you want - font, font size, back color etc - and then format / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they purchased 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know anything before I go upgrade them. AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any other caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 12:47:56 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 13:47:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... In-Reply-To: <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> No that is not what I am taking about. Not default property, default *settings*. It is a format thing. when you set up a form you can say "when I drag a control (in this case a label) out onto the form I want it to look like this..." In 2003 open a form in design view. select a label in the menu, select format / set control defaults THAT is what I am trying to find in Access 2007. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/4/2011 1:05 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > I don't think that labels have a default property - text boxes do. For a > text box, the default value in in properties, under Data. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... > > LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the other > day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. > > I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just could > not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a control, get it > set up the way you want - font, font size, back color etc - and then format > / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. > > Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? > > Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they purchased > 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know > anything before I go upgrade them. > > AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. > Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any other > caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 4 14:06:57 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:06:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... In-Reply-To: <4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net> <4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> I found this: http://allenbrowne.com/ser-43.html And - after 13 years of programming access, I did not know about this feature. OMG - What else don't I know?!? Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 12:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... No that is not what I am taking about. Not default property, default *settings*. It is a format thing. when you set up a form you can say "when I drag a control (in this case a label) out onto the form I want it to look like this..." In 2003 open a form in design view. select a label in the menu, select format / set control defaults THAT is what I am trying to find in Access 2007. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/4/2011 1:05 PM, Dan Waters wrote: > I don't think that labels have a default property - text boxes do. > For a text box, the default value in in properties, under Data. > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 11:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 - oh the pain... > > LOL. I forgot my laptop (with 2003 on it) when I visited a client the > other day, so I was forced to work in 2007. Such fun. > > I was trying to set the default setting for a label on a form. I just > could not find where they hid that piece. In 2003 you select a > control, get it set up the way you want - font, font size, back color > etc - and then format / set control defaults on the menu. In 2007 there is no menu of course. > > Does anyone know where they hid that function in 2007? > > Is anyone using Access 2010? this client is a nonprofit and they > purchased > 10 copies of Access 2010 for cheap. I am wondering if I need to know > anything before I go upgrade them. > > AFAICT they have full office 2007 on the three computers in their office. > Other than installing Access 2010 in its own directory, is there any > other caution? And does 2010 runtime work the same way as 2007? > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Fri Mar 4 14:55:59 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:55:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> Message-ID: We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 15:16:05 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 16:16:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Finding the Set Control Defaults - Office Watch Message-ID: <4D715695.6080806@colbyconsulting.com> Here it is! http://news.office-watch.com/t/n.aspx?articleid=987&zoneid=30 -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Fri Mar 4 16:10:36 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 23:10:36 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> Message-ID: <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Hi Shamil In another posting you wrote: > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. >From a logical design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 4 16:31:06 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 01:31:06 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc><394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Message-ID: Hi Asger -- <<< So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? >>> I do not care how to call a surrogate key - a "physical PK" is OK with me. :) As I noted I do care more on "consistent data modeling" when all and every table gets surrogate PK - as you and John do - I do the same, and I did have to get and to fix legacy data models "nightmares" with five levels hierarchies of natural keys propagating from upper to the lower level of that hierarchy... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 1:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Shamil In another posting you wrote: > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. >From a logical design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 4 16:43:09 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 08:43:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Message-ID: <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need to differentiate according to what the key is based on. -- Stuart On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > Hi Shamil > > In another posting you wrote: > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design point > of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from > a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate > auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the > surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the > combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? > > Asger > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Hi Asger -- > > <<< > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which > *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is > what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to > all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure > relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond > Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Jim, > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so > far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of > using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK > key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I > use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead > compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what > happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the > story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you > only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a > natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many > columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much > bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will > create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even > more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then > chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one > imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one > column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking > table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. > > Asger > > <<< snip >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri Mar 4 16:47:47 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 14:47:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: I love developers that use SSN and/or email addresses as PKs. Those never change, or are never faked. From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Fri Mar 4 18:52:01 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 01:52:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need to differentiate according to what the key is based on. -- Stuart On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > Hi Shamil > > In another posting you wrote: > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design point > of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from > a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate > auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the > surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the > combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? > > Asger > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > Server > > Hi Asger -- > > <<< > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which > *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is > what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to > all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure > relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond > Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Jim, > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so > far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of > using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK > key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I > use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead > compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what > happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the > story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you > only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a > natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many > columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much > bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will > create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even > more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then > chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one > imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one > column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking > table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. > > Asger > > <<< snip >> > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 4 19:09:01 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 11:09:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Message-ID: <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies > each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate > unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in > every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just > add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural > column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical > PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My > point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a > logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of > more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each > record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But > that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual > ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be > prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the > actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have > learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If > the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products > table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate > ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two > quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: > ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate > ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer > don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK > and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the > natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical > sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key > for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need > to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > -- > Stuart > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Hi Shamil > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design > > point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. > > But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a > > surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) > > calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key > > points to the combined natural key which then should be named a > > "logical PK"? > > > > Asger > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > <<< > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for > > pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Jim, > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting > > so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead > > of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate > > PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if > > I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an > > overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. > > But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? > > Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main > > table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - > > using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as > > many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a > > much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally > > will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table > > then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each > > one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with > > one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a > > linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child > > tables. > > > > Asger > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Fri Mar 4 19:28:02 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 02:28:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <552C7783AC164A33A0B0B9BEB6827192@abpc> Stuart, Worried, are you feeling well? Don't understand a word of your mumble. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart McLachlan Sendt: 5. marts 2011 02:09 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies > each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate > unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in > every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just > add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural > column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical > PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My > point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a > logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of > more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each > record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But > that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual > ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be > prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the > actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have > learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If > the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products > table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate > ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two > quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: > ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate > ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer > don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK > and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the > natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical > sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key > for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need > to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > -- > Stuart > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Hi Shamil > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design > > point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. > > But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a > > surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) > > calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key > > points to the combined natural key which then should be named a > > "logical PK"? > > > > Asger > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > <<< > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for > > pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Jim, > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting > > so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead > > of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate > > PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if > > I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an > > overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. > > But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? > > Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main > > table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - > > using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as > > many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a > > much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally > > will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table > > then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each > > one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with > > one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a > > linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child > > tables. > > > > Asger > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 4 20:04:39 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 12:04:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Abbreviations and the Great Debate was (Access and SQL Server) In-Reply-To: <552C7783AC164A33A0B0B9BEB6827192@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <552C7783AC164A33A0B0B9BEB6827192@abpc> Message-ID: <4D719A37.15730.2CC8C3C6@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You'll notice that I have changed the subject! D,RFC = Ducking, Running For Cover! I knew as soon as I saw the first posting that it would end up as another round of the great surrogate/natural PK debate that somehow comes up every year or so on the list with no- one's opinions being changed. I really didn't want to get dragged into it again -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 2:28, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart, > Worried, are you feeling well? Don't understand a word of your mumble. > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 5. marts 2011 02:09 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > B*gger, > > I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this > debate after all. > > I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was > the very succint > > > D,RFC :-) > > > And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! > > -- > Stuart > > > On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Stuart (and Shamil) > > > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > > words... > > > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely > > identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a > > surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be > > present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you > > can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't > > have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are > > unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table > > won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking > > about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one > > or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely > > identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always > > need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as > > the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it > > may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make > > this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with > > customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use > > surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the > > primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use > > an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this > > would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is > > actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design > > language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design > > language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for > > choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is > > wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a > > PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > > > Asger > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) > > key for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no > > need to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > > > Hi Shamil > > > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? > > > > Anybody? > > > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear > > > up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical > > > design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms > > > the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be > > > implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be > > > happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", > > > admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which > > > then should be named a "logical PK"? > > > > > > Asger > > > > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > > Server > > > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > > > <<< > > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK > > > for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are > > > many... > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > -- > > > Shamil > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > > > Jim, > > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole > > > posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the > > > overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of > > > just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that > > > using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique > > > index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural > > > columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So > > > in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a > > > natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I > > > think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that > > > the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the > > > composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to > > > create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite > > > different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a > > > FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural > > > composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns > > > as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much > > > bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will > > > create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child > > > table then chances are that you might need two or more child > > > tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a > > > surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate > > > PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem > > > to need child tables. > > > > > > Asger > > > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 4 21:16:46 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2011 22:16:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Message-ID: <4D71AB1E.4020006@colbyconsulting.com> And didn't I say exactly that at the very beginning of this thread? Anyone who lets the customer dictate the actual design of the database needs to be in a different business. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/4/2011 7:52 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. > When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. > > Asger From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat Mar 5 05:37:22 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 14:37:22 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc><4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> Message-ID: <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> Hi Asger -- <<< When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. >>> Let me note that in the case of unique rows "maximal (length) logical PK" would be combination of all columns' values of a row. I suppose I'm in your and JC's camp - let me be in? :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 3:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger <<< snip >> From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Sat Mar 5 08:30:20 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 15:30:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc><4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> Message-ID: Hi Shamil Exactly - and you are welcome :-) Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 5. marts 2011 12:37 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. >>> Let me note that in the case of unique rows "maximal (length) logical PK" would be combination of all columns' values of a row. I suppose I'm in your and JC's camp - let me be in? :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 3:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Sat Mar 5 10:24:19 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 10:24:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times In-Reply-To: References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000c01cbdb51$c85c30b0$59149210$@comcast.net> Hi Brad, My systems I do something similar to allow/disallow actions based on a user's job role, or if they are an administrator, or the developer (me). All of the data for these settings is stored in the BE database file in a variety of tables - but they could also be installed in a separate BE file just as well. I think your approach is sound. And I'm assuming that you have a client/system configuration (several FE's on client PC's with the data stored in one or more BE data files on a server). If your system typically takes only 1/2 second to set the tabs, but sometimes it takes 15 seconds, I'd have to say the first thing to look at is a network connection that is causing the delay. So you'll need to enlist your IT folks for some help. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Sat Mar 5 11:47:01 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Sat, 5 Mar 2011 11:47:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net> <000c01cbdb51$c85c30b0$59149210$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Dan, Thanks for your insights. I will discuss this issue some more with our network folks. I know that I can eliminate the occasional slowness by using a local table or "hard coding" the permissions. These approaches will make it more difficult to retain the control of the information in the hands of the application administrator, however. I have given some thought to reading the control file and using it to generate VBA code. This would, however, require a two-step approach (1) administrator changes the data (2) Access developer uses the data to generate new VBA code and then moves this new code from TEST to PROD. This is not ideal, but it may be better than the occasional slowness if we cannot find the root cause. Thanks again, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Dan Waters Sent: Sat 3/5/2011 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times Hi Brad, My systems I do something similar to allow/disallow actions based on a user's job role, or if they are an administrator, or the developer (me). All of the data for these settings is stored in the BE database file in a variety of tables - but they could also be installed in a separate BE file just as well. I think your approach is sound. And I'm assuming that you have a client/system configuration (several FE's on client PC's with the data stored in one or more BE data files on a server). If your system typically takes only 1/2 second to set the tabs, but sometimes it takes 15 seconds, I'd have to say the first thing to look at is a network connection that is causing the delay. So you'll need to enlist your IT folks for some help. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Sat Mar 5 15:44:36 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2011 10:44:36 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times In-Reply-To: References: <4D712509.8030206@colbyconsulting.com> <001301cbda96$c31d0680$49571380$@comcast.net><4D7133DC.3060102@colbyconsulting.com> <002101cbdaa7$b9d26c80$2d774580$@comcast.net><000c01cbdb51$c85c30b0$59149210$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <77784D707F5948E68BA95B97666C5210@stevelaptop> Hi Brad, One thing you could consider is reading those data from the external control tables at the time when the application is started up. Since you are using Access 2007, it may be applicable to use TempVars. Alternatively, copy the data into local tables, and then have your procedures relate to the local copies of the data rather than to the external control tables themselves. That way, if there is any slowness, it will be at startup, rather than during production usage time, and therefore not so disruptive. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Brad Marks Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2011 6:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times Dan, Thanks for your insights. I will discuss this issue some more with our network folks. I know that I can eliminate the occasional slowness by using a local table or "hard coding" the permissions. These approaches will make it more difficult to retain the control of the information in the hands of the application administrator, however. I have given some thought to reading the control file and using it to generate VBA code. This would, however, require a two-step approach (1) administrator changes the data (2) Access developer uses the data to generate new VBA code and then moves this new code from TEST to PROD. This is not ideal, but it may be better than the occasional slowness if we cannot find the root cause. Thanks again, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of Dan Waters Sent: Sat 3/5/2011 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times Hi Brad, My systems I do something similar to allow/disallow actions based on a user's job role, or if they are an administrator, or the developer (me). All of the data for these settings is stored in the BE database file in a variety of tables - but they could also be installed in a separate BE file just as well. I think your approach is sound. And I'm assuming that you have a client/system configuration (several FE's on client PC's with the data stored in one or more BE data files on a server). If your system typically takes only 1/2 second to set the tabs, but sometimes it takes 15 seconds, I'd have to say the first thing to look at is a network connection that is causing the delay. So you'll need to enlist your IT folks for some help. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Externalized Control Information - Slow at Times We have an Access 2007 application that has several "External Control Tables" that are stored in a separate accdr file. The users like this approach because a "system administrator" (end-user) can control many features of the system without contacting IT. For example, the system has 10 tabs, but not all users can see all 10 tabs. If a user is in the HR department, they can only see three tabs. If they are in the Accounting department, they can see 5 tabs, etc. The control of which tabs a user can see is stored in one of our "External Control Tables". This approach works very nicely most of the time. Once in a while, however, response time is a problem. For example, usually the Tab control info can be obtained in about ? second. However, occasionally it may take 10 - 15 seconds. We are not sure why we see this slowness. We are looking into alternatives. We want to retain the system administrator's ability to maintain the "Control Info", but we would like to eliminate the occasional response time problem. I am curious if others have built systems that have "externalized control info". If so, where is the best place to store this data? (If we simply store it in the "Main" accdr file, then we have a problem with our change management process. IT works in Test and moves things into PROD. We don't want IT to have to maintain this info in TEST.) Thanks, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:29:52 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:29:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc> Message-ID: Asger, Sorry about being MIA on this, but I had some major systems work to perform at an out of town client this past weekend, so time was very limited Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. <> That's the point where you'd tack on an auto number, but I don't agree with a design where you do that up front just for the sake of consistency. Even with the extended/non-simple linking table that Stuart brought up (which I don't think of as a linking table even though he was correct in that it really is one), I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 06:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Jim Dettman Sendt: 1. marts 2011 21:23 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Lambert, It needs a unique index, which the Author/Book combination provides. Not sure why the original post got formatted that way, but it should have looked like this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B Which might be clearer. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 01:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Doesn't SQL server require a field with a unique index in order for the table to be updatable? AuthorID cannot be unique (obviously) BookID might not be unique (as some books have multiple authors) So don't you need LinkID - Autonumber PK? Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:40 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server So on a many to many linking table you would do this: tblBooksAndAuthors LinkID - Autonumber - PK AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - CK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - CK-B And not simply: tblBooksAndAuthors AuthorID - Long - FK to tblAuthors - PK-A BookID - Long - FK to tblBooks - PK-B and eliminate an index? If so, why not? Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 12:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server When I create a table in any datastore, the first thing I do is create an autoincrement PK. I no longer even think about it - if need a table, I need an autonumber pk! I then proceed to create the fields. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/1/2011 12:17 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Many years ago I was taking over an Access project as the clients were > having problems with their invoices. After about two days I discovered > the problem with the invoice. > > It appears that the subform was connected to the main form by grouping > together 3 fields, creating natural foreign key between the two > tables. By some odd set of bad luck certain combinations of this key > hash matched another unrelated key value and the sub form data was > pulling from multiple > invoice details. > > The only reliable solution was to move all the tables to auto PKs but > it cost the client a fair chunk of change. For that reason I have > never inflicted natural keys, on a client, no matter how strong the temptation. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > I see a lot of sense in it having a separate Autonumber PK. This is a > classic case of why > you should not use a natural key as your PK. > > What happens when the Description changes and the existing Code is no longer > an accurate > short representation of Description? Do you change it throughout all > the tables which store it or do you leave your customer with strange > Codes which don't match the description > > (And please don't tell me that you use Relationships with "Cascade Update" > turned on.) > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:46:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:46:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com><4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS><4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS><89CC5E27367D475E889CCCCF08CF02C9@abpc><394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant> <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc> Message-ID: <3C802977CDBA410D86845C4A1969E5CC@XPS> Shamil, Consider though that the only reason it is a nightmare is the issue of performance. If that didn't exist as an issue, would there be any problem with using natural primary keys or surrogates (not a meaningless key). My answer to that would be no. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 05:31 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? >>> I do not care how to call a surrogate key - a "physical PK" is OK with me. :) As I noted I do care more on "consistent data modeling" when all and every table gets surrogate PK - as you and John do - I do the same, and I did have to get and to fix legacy data models "nightmares" with five levels hierarchies of natural keys propagating from upper to the lower level of that hierarchy... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 1:11 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Shamil In another posting you wrote: > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion and > to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up some of the mismatch between Jim and John. >From a logical design point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key points to the combined natural key which then should be named a "logical PK"? Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 4 ????? 2011 ?. 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Jim, Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:46:51 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:46:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7004AD.6010305@colbyconsulting.com> <92F4945AB2F5450E8B4B7B6C3F081BD2@Gateway> Message-ID: <> I think that point was lost on John...I wasn't talking about education only in terms of schooling. As for the "debate" I really don't think there is much of one. My point that we all use primary keys in our applications despite the fact that we all use auto numbers for physical keys is correct. Whether its by having additional indexes or simply arranging our user interfaces in specific ways to present data, primary keys are used. By being cognizant of the differences between what a true primary key is and something that is labeled as such in table design even though it is not lets you build better apps. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 09:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Education. Isn't that when we graduate into the rest of life? I forget who polluted the world, was it the uneducated? Can we get back to the debate, please? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? ROTFL. That would be you. I have a high school education and some hours of community college. Life is strange sometimes. Circumstances didn't align for me getting a degree. My wife has one though, does that count? So, we have established who is the educated one. But I have read the books; I just strictly differentiate between academics and real world. And I have made my living in designing databases since 1994. It has been a good living. And I have made a living learning and writing applications in numerous programming languages. And I read virtually every day to stay abreast of what I need to know to do my job well. So let's just say I know your terms, I understand your terms, and I could care less about your terms. So whip out the "I'm educated" thing on someone else 'cause it doesn't do a thing for me. And by the way you still are not telling us (and Microsoft) what we are supposed to call this ... uh... hm... I don't know what to call it now... you know... the autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. Man that just sounds so... uneducated. ;) Believe me I *do* want to know so that I can avoid the next peeing match. I will try to insert your favorite name for this object in the discussion from here on out. Just an FYI, I really do know and understand normalization. I really do know and understand candidate keys. I really do search for a candidate key to cover with a unique index to enforce data uniqueness. I really do understand multi-field primary keys. I made an ... well... I hesitate to call it... an "educated" decision to *not* use them in favor of the ... here we go again... that autoincrement field used as a pointer between tables thingie. You don't know how sad it makes me to know I can no longer tell people I make "educated" decisions. 8( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/3/2011 3:10 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > John, > > << So to get into a peeing match about my calling this thing a PK is > just silly.>> > > That's not the point. > > <> > > So I guess we'll just have to leave it then that one of us is > educated and the other not; wonder which one that is? > > Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:52:25 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:52:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <394AAB3B1D044BB8B41A33CCE7877B57@nant>, <688CE1176DF64797B70C2060E1E05BE7@abpc><4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <823DBEE136F54245AF1D7B1D6B01D5B5@nant> Message-ID: <8CB99E61901E491BB33FCEFC7C03EF2D@XPS> Shamil, <> Yes, that would be what is referred to as a "supper key"; any combination of one or more attributes that can form a unique combination is a super key. Out of that group comes the candidates and then out of that group, one is chosen as a primary key. That candidate being the one which is as minimal as possible, as familiar as possible, and as stable as possible. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2011 06:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Asger -- <<< When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. >>> Let me note that in the case of unique rows "maximal (length) logical PK" would be combination of all columns' values of a row. I suppose I'm in your and JC's camp - let me be in? :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger Blond Sent: 5 ????? 2011 ?. 3:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart (and Shamil) Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of words... Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical sense. And don't underestimate logic... Asger <<< snip >> -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 08:52:25 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:52:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc> <4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <18947638A2BF4F5CAC4AC9119ADA12E6@XPS> Stuart, Ah come on, it's been a little too quiet around here for too long... Seems we cover more off-topic things then anything else around here lately. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 08:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart On 5 Mar 2011 at 1:52, Asger Blond wrote: > Stuart (and Shamil) > > Disagree. It's not just a matter of words - it's exactly a matter of > words... > > Distinguishing between a logical and a physical PK makes clear which > natural columns or combination of natural columns uniquely identifies > each row in the table (the "logical PK") as opposed to a surrogate > unique column (the "physical PK"), both of which should be present in > every table. When designing a table with unique rows you can't just > add a surrogate PK key (a "physical PK"). If you don't have a natural > column or combination of natural columns which are unique (a "logical > PK" or "natural alternate key") then the table won't be in 1NF. My > point is to avoid misunderstanding when talking about PK's. From a > logical point of view you always need to have one or a combination of > more natural columns in the table which uniquely identifies each > record. This is the "logical PK". You really always need this! But > that doesn't mean that you should implement this as the actual > ("physical") PK. For other reasons (i.e. performance) it may be > prudent to add a surrogate auto-increment column and make this the > actual ("physical") PK. When planning a database with customers I have > learned to keep my mouth shut telling that I use surrogate keys. If > the customer identifies ProductNumber as the primary key in a Products > table I don't say: sorry for this I'll use an extra surrogate > ProductID column as PK. Why? Because saying this would confuse two > quite different languages. The customer is actually quite right: > ProductNumber is the PK in the "logical design language". My surrogate > ProductID is the PK in the "physical design language". The customer > don't need to know my technical reasons for choosing a surrogate PK > and this doesn't mean that the customer is wrong when calling the > natural ProductNumber a PK. It certainly is a PK - in the logical > sense. And don't underestimate logic... > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Stuart > McLachlan Sendt: 4. marts 2011 23:43 Til: Access Developers discussion > and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Sorry, but IMNSHO a PK is just a PK. > > You can use a surrogate(physical) key or combined natural(logical) key > for that, but in the end, either one is "the" PK. There is no need > to differentiate according to what the key is based on. > > -- > Stuart > > On 4 Mar 2011 at 23:10, Asger Blond wrote: > > > Hi Shamil > > > > In another posting you wrote: > > > Isn't it time now to recapitulate constructively this discussion > > > and to list pedantically pros and cons of every approach? Anybody? > > > > Maybe it would be constructive to use the established distinction > > between "logical design" and "physical design". This might clear up > > some of the mismatch between Jim and John. From a logical design > > point of view the combination of AuthorID and BookID forms the PK. > > But from a physical point of view this PK may be implemented by a > > surrogate auto-increment key. So would all be happy if John (and I) > > calls the surrogate key a "physical PK", admitting that this key > > points to the combined natural key which then should be named a > > "logical PK"? > > > > Asger > > > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af Shamil > > Salakhetdinov Sendt: 4. marts 2011 01:27 Til: 'Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving' Emne: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL > > Server > > > > Hi Asger -- > > > > <<< > > That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a linking table > > which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child tables. >>> Yes, > > that is what I call "data model design consistency principle" I'm > > applying to all my data models. Overheads of "fake" surrogate PK for > > pure relation/linking tables is not so big, and gains are many... > > > > Thank you. > > > > -- > > Shamil > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Asger > > Blond Sent: 4 2011 . 2:46 To: 'Access Developers discussion and > > problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > > > Jim, > > Coming in on this discussion late and having read the whole posting > > so far I want to take up a point way back: Why impose the overhead > > of using a surrogate PK in a linking table instead of just using a > > composite natural PK? JC has clearly stated that using a surrogate > > PK key doesn't mean that you can omit a unique index on some other > > "natural column" or combination of "natural columns" in your table > > (which is also called "alternate keys"). So in your example, even if > > I use a surrogate PK I also need a natural unique index of the > > combination AuthorID and BookID. I think we all can agree on this. I > > also think we all can agree that the surrogate PK imposes an > > overhead compared to just using the composite natural key as a PK. > > But what happens if you need to create a child table to this table? > > Then the story is quite different: using a surrogate PK in the main > > table you only need a FK with a single column in the child table - > > using a natural composite PK in the main table you need a FK with as > > many columns as used in the main table. And this certainly imposes a > > much bigger overhead. Also to get a good performance you normally > > will create indexes on the FK. So having a composite FK will impose > > even more overhead. Not to mention that if you need one child table > > then chances are that you might need two or more child tables - each > > one imposing an overhead as compared to using a surrogate key with > > one column. That's why I always use surrogate PK's - even in a > > linking table which *for the moment* doesn't seem to need child > > tables. > > > > Asger > > > > <<< snip >> > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 7 09:18:06 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 16:18:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. From jimdettman at verizon.net Mon Mar 7 09:22:18 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 10:22:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Gustav, Well you may shoot yourself in the foot at times with that approach. In the book/author linking table example I gave, what if you had millions of rows? Your going to maintain an extra index on the auto number key simply because you want one when the book ID/Author ID works fine as a key and you need a index on it anyway? Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:18 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Mar 7 10:12:41 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:12:41 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Gustav, Jim and All -- <<< No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. >>> Yes. As for performance issues for millions of rows as you Jim noted - some very small performance loss on inserting a row can be neglected. Jim, let me suppose this my answer will be also an answer on two your other today's postings here addressed to me? 2All: for the case of surrogate PK and a natural (compound) alternate key - which one will you make based on a clustered index and which one - based on non-clustered and why? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: 7 ????? 2011 ?. 18:18 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Mon Mar 7 10:15:24 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:15:24 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <18947638A2BF4F5CAC4AC9119ADA12E6@XPS> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com>, <4D716AFD.25195.2C10489B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <40FAE27AA33743EB8172A67EF9CA9188@abpc><4D718D2D.8672.2C95D571@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <18947638A2BF4F5CAC4AC9119ADA12E6@XPS> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- <<< Ah come on, it's been a little too quiet around here for too long... >>> Yes! :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: 7 ????? 2011 ?. 17:52 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Stuart, Ah come on, it's been a little too quiet around here for too long... Seems we cover more off-topic things then anything else around here lately. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 08:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server B*gger, I've just realised that JC and Jim managed to sucker me in to this debate after all. I should have left it at my first posting on this subject, which was the very succint D,RFC :-) And that stands as my last comment on this thread too! -- Stuart <<< snip >>> From Gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 7 10:58:12 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:58:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Message-ID: Hi Jim I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a an autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for updates of other fields, and tables that large typically are for appending/reading only. But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where possible. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 16:22 >>> Gustav, Well you may shoot yourself in the foot at times with that approach. In the book/author linking table example I gave, what if you had millions of rows? Your going to maintain an extra index on the auto number key simply because you want one when the book ID/Author ID works fine as a key and you need a index on it anyway? Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:18 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server Hi Jim In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It makes life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. /gustav >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK some where. From fuller.artful at gmail.com Mon Mar 7 18:00:04 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 19:00:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Let us distinguish two problems: The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an arbitrary-numbered case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid which eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level of detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and potentially life-saving. The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or windshield or manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike the aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift and a line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which attributes we choose to model. IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number problem, but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, this latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my piece at Red Gate's site). Arthur On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim > > I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a an > autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for updates of > other fields, and tables that large typically are for appending/reading > only. > > But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where possible. > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 16:22 >>> > Gustav, > > Well you may shoot yourself in the foot at times with that approach. > > In the book/author linking table example I gave, what if you had millions > of rows? Your going to maintain an extra index on the auto number key > simply because you want one when the book ID/Author ID works fine as a key > and you need a index on it anyway? > > Sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 10:18 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server > > Hi Jim > > In, say, a grid you need to be able to identify any row quickly and easily > even if the table of this grid is the mother of all tables. > Nothing beats an Id of autonumber in this respect: Always the same name, > same data type, same behaviour, same methods, same everything. > > I realise it may require an index more, but that disadvantage is ignorable > compared to the huge advantages gained by a consistent use of an autonumber > Id for every table - which to me includes any lookup table as well. It > makes > life safe and so much easier. No considerations: Is this a tiny table? Or a > lookup table only? Or?. Just do it, add the Id, and move on. > > /gustav > > > >>> jimdettman at verizon.net 07-03-2011 15:29 >>> > > I would not use an auto number as a key until I needed to use it as a FK > some where. > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 8 05:42:02 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 12:42:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] PITA and temporal database (was: Access and SQL Server) Message-ID: Hi Arthur This is what you brought up 4? years ago: --- >>> artful at rogers.com 2006-11-22 13:14:50 >>> There is a whole other subject on this, about which I have written, but I googled it and it didn't come up, so perhaps I wrote it and forgot to sell it to somebody. The gist is this: it's called PITA, which doesn't mean pain in the arse, but rather Point In Time Architecture. Without PITA, the central problem with relational databases is that they don't provide an instant "roll back to August 1" capability. With PITA, they do. It's not all that complicated, but it does require a detailed walk-through so you can understand all the implications, the most critical of which is, "Nothing is ever updated. An updated row is actually replaced, and the updated row's EndDate column is updated to reflect the datetime on which the row was "changed". Thus it becomes possible to issue a query that reflects the state of the database on August 1, 2005. Obviously this increases the size of the db significantly, but in certain environments (such as medical), this is critical -- who was JWC's physician on that date, and what tests were performed, and by which medicos, and so on. So. Today's job is to dig out that PITA article and pitch it to somebody. --- Somehow you must have succeeded because your writing can found here, dated 2007-02-22: http://www.simple-talk.com/sql/database-administration/database-design-a-point-in-time-architecture/ As I wrote back also on 2006-11-22, what you describe is a temporal database or - more precise - a bitemporal: In the literature, two time lines of interest have been mentioned, transaction time and valid time. The valid time line represents when a fact is valid in modelled world (i.e. when it was believed) and the transaction time line represents when a transaction was performed. A bitemporal database is a combination of valid time and transaction time databases where these two time lines are considered to be orthogonal. (Snodgrass & Ahn 1986) This is a fascinating area, and your article describes nicely how - using SQL Server - to deal with some of the issues for a practical implementation of this theory (from 1986). However, I miss the connection to your eggs. To me, the collection of eggs describes rather a batch: A given population of 200 hens produce each day a collected batch of eggs which perhaps are stamped with a producer id and batch id but at least packed with other eggs from the same batch only. The batch id is written on the package. This way a bad egg at the consumer can be tracked back to the package, the producer, the date, the packing machine, the population of hens, and - perhaps - the possible bags of corn (or whatever) used to feed these hens. You will record all associated data in a write-once/read-many database, but as you by definition never will change or correct these data, I see no scenario for a temporal or PITA database, it's more like a log file. The only date field needed here is the packing date. And how about the autonumber and the index maintenance Jim brought up? /gustav >>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 08-03-2011 01:00 >>> Let us distinguish two problems: The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an arbitrary-numbered case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid which eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level of detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and potentially life-saving. The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or windshield or manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike the aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift and a line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which attributes we choose to model. IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number problem, but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, this latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my piece at Red Gate's site). Arthur On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Jim > > I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a an > autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for updates of > other fields, and tables that large typically are for appending/reading > only. > > But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where possible. > > /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 8 08:49:43 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 09:49:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] PITA and temporal database (was: Access and SQL Server) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D764207.7060906@colbyconsulting.com> While this is a nice idea, and perhaps critical somewhere, I cannot see it being usable in most environments. I have a claim table with 50 or 100 fields and I am going to store all of that again because a single date in one field is changed? In an ideal world without real world constraints, go for it. However we are replacing natural keys with surrogates because of issues with storing just a handful of fields "over again" and the negative impacts on speed and storage requirements that natural keys bring. If I were going to do a temporal kind of db I would go with a "normalized" solution where I stored just the PKID of the record changing, name of the field (or ID of the field) the "old" field data, and the change time. Then you end up with a "change log" concept. All of which demands intense analysis to determine where the change log becomes less efficient than storing the whole record. One way or the other (in my experience), very few clients are willing to pay for this kind of thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/8/2011 6:42 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > This is what you brought up 4? years ago: > > --- >>>> artful at rogers.com 2006-11-22 13:14:50>>> > > There is a whole other subject on this, about which I have written, but > I googled it and it didn't come up, so perhaps I wrote it and forgot to > sell it to somebody. The gist is this: it's called PITA, which doesn't > mean pain in the arse, but rather Point In Time Architecture. Without > PITA, the central problem with relational databases is that they don't > provide an instant "roll back to August 1" capability. With PITA, they > do. It's not all that complicated, but it does require a detailed > walk-through so you can understand all the implications, the most > critical of which is, "Nothing is ever updated. An updated row is > actually replaced, and the updated row's EndDate column is updated to > reflect the datetime on which the row was "changed". Thus it becomes > possible to issue a query that reflects the state of the database on > August 1, 2005. Obviously this increases the size of the db > significantly, but in certain environments (such as medical), this is > critical -- who was JWC's physician on that date, and what tests were > performed, and by which medicos, and so on. > > So. Today's job is to dig out that PITA article and pitch it to > somebody. > --- > > Somehow you must have succeeded because your writing can found here, > dated 2007-02-22: > > http://www.simple-talk.com/sql/database-administration/database-design-a-point-in-time-architecture/ > > As I wrote back also on 2006-11-22, what you describe is a temporal > database or - more precise - a bitemporal: > > > In the literature, two time lines of interest have been mentioned, > transaction time and valid time. The valid time line represents when a > fact is valid in modelled world (i.e. when it was believed) and the > transaction time line represents when a transaction was performed. A > bitemporal database is a combination of valid time and transaction time > databases where these two time lines are considered to be orthogonal. > (Snodgrass& Ahn 1986) > > > This is a fascinating area, and your article describes nicely how - > using SQL Server - to deal with some of the issues for a practical > implementation of this theory (from 1986). > > However, I miss the connection to your eggs. > > To me, the collection of eggs describes rather a batch: A given > population of 200 hens produce each day a collected batch of eggs which > perhaps are stamped with a producer id and batch id but at least packed > with other eggs from the same batch only. The batch id is written on the > package. > This way a bad egg at the consumer can be tracked back to the package, > the producer, the date, the packing machine, the population of hens, and > - perhaps - the possible bags of corn (or whatever) used to feed these > hens. > You will record all associated data in a write-once/read-many database, > but as you by definition never will change or correct these data, I see > no scenario for a temporal or PITA database, it's more like a log file. > The only date field needed here is the packing date. > > And how about the autonumber and the index maintenance Jim brought up? > > /gustav > > >>>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 08-03-2011 01:00>>> > Let us distinguish two problems: > > The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays > several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an > arbitrary-numbered > case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid > which > eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level > of > detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and > potentially > life-saving. > > The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or > windshield or > manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike > the > aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift > and a > line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. > > Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which > attributes we > choose to model. > > IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number > problem, > but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, > this > latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time > Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my > piece at > Red Gate's site). > > Arthur > > On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Gustav Brock > wrote: > >> Hi Jim >> >> I'm not so sure about that. As far as I know, maintenance cost of a > an >> autonumber index is close to zero for adding records, zero for > updates of >> other fields, and tables that large typically are for > appending/reading >> only. >> >> But, of course, scenarios exist where you have to optimise where > possible. >> >> /gustav From Gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 8 09:53:48 2011 From: Gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 16:53:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] PITA and temporal database (was: Access and SQL Server) Message-ID: Hi John It is even worse - if you consider referential integrity. If so, you have to record the object itself as the first and then, in separate table(s), any attribute that may change over time. Thus, for example for a customer table, as everything can change except the registration number (VAT or whatever), your main table may end up containing only this and the Id, while the name of the company, address, and phone number, etc. must be kept in one or more child tables. However, it may not turn out that labourious. Think about it: How often do you need all info of a customer? But you are right. Even though this is an extremely powerful storing method, the client still has to pay. /gustav >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 08-03-2011 15:49 >>> While this is a nice idea, and perhaps critical somewhere, I cannot see it being usable in most environments. I have a claim table with 50 or 100 fields and I am going to store all of that again because a single date in one field is changed? In an ideal world without real world constraints, go for it. However we are replacing natural keys with surrogates because of issues with storing just a handful of fields "over again" and the negative impacts on speed and storage requirements that natural keys bring. If I were going to do a temporal kind of db I would go with a "normalized" solution where I stored just the PKID of the record changing, name of the field (or ID of the field) the "old" field data, and the change time. Then you end up with a "change log" concept. All of which demands intense analysis to determine where the change log becomes less efficient than storing the whole record. One way or the other (in my experience), very few clients are willing to pay for this kind of thing. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/8/2011 6:42 AM, Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Arthur > > This is what you brought up 4? years ago: > > --- >>>> artful at rogers.com 2006-11-22 13:14:50>>> > > There is a whole other subject on this, about which I have written, but > I googled it and it didn't come up, so perhaps I wrote it and forgot to > sell it to somebody. The gist is this: it's called PITA, which doesn't > mean pain in the arse, but rather Point In Time Architecture. Without > PITA, the central problem with relational databases is that they don't > provide an instant "roll back to August 1" capability. With PITA, they > do. It's not all that complicated, but it does require a detailed > walk-through so you can understand all the implications, the most > critical of which is, "Nothing is ever updated. An updated row is > actually replaced, and the updated row's EndDate column is updated to > reflect the datetime on which the row was "changed". Thus it becomes > possible to issue a query that reflects the state of the database on > August 1, 2005. Obviously this increases the size of the db > significantly, but in certain environments (such as medical), this is > critical -- who was JWC's physician on that date, and what tests were > performed, and by which medicos, and so on. > > So. Today's job is to dig out that PITA article and pitch it to > somebody. > --- > > Somehow you must have succeeded because your writing can found here, > dated 2007-02-22: > > http://www.simple-talk.com/sql/database-administration/database-design-a-point-in-time-architecture/ > > As I wrote back also on 2006-11-22, what you describe is a temporal > database or - more precise - a bitemporal: > > > In the literature, two time lines of interest have been mentioned, > transaction time and valid time. The valid time line represents when a > fact is valid in modelled world (i.e. when it was believed) and the > transaction time line represents when a transaction was performed. A > bitemporal database is a combination of valid time and transaction time > databases where these two time lines are considered to be orthogonal. > (Snodgrass& Ahn 1986) > > > This is a fascinating area, and your article describes nicely how - > using SQL Server - to deal with some of the issues for a practical > implementation of this theory (from 1986). > > However, I miss the connection to your eggs. > > To me, the collection of eggs describes rather a batch: A given > population of 200 hens produce each day a collected batch of eggs which > perhaps are stamped with a producer id and batch id but at least packed > with other eggs from the same batch only. The batch id is written on the > package. > This way a bad egg at the consumer can be tracked back to the package, > the producer, the date, the packing machine, the population of hens, and > - perhaps - the possible bags of corn (or whatever) used to feed these > hens. > You will record all associated data in a write-once/read-many database, > but as you by definition never will change or correct these data, I see > no scenario for a temporal or PITA database, it's more like a log file. > The only date field needed here is the packing date. > > And how about the autonumber and the index maintenance Jim brought up? > > /gustav > > >>>> fuller.artful at gmail.com 08-03-2011 01:00>>> > Let us distinguish two problems: > > The first is the "egg" problem. I have 200 chickens each of which lays > several eggs per day, each of which is plonked into an arbitrary-numbered > case. At some point, it may be interesting to know which chicken laid which > eggs and into which cartons they were placed. Most often, this level of > detail is not interesting, but occasionally it is vital and potentially > life-saving. > > The second is the "serial number" problem. Every crankshaft or windshield or > manifold coming off an assembly line has a unique serial number, unlike the > aforementioned eggs. Each one of these parts can be traced to a shift and a > line and perhaps ultimately to a worker. > > Big difference in these problems, and big difference in which attributes we > choose to model. > > IME, I have dealt more with the egg problem than the serial number problem, > but in recent years this has changed. To further complicate things, this > latter problem has been compounded by the PITA issue (Point in Time > Archictecture; for details on this problem and its solution see my piece at > Red Gate's site). > > Arthur From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Tue Mar 8 10:09:06 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 08:09:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Nested Sub Querys Message-ID: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All As Dan said OMG how much don't I know. When fooling around with SQL Server I found you could next multiple subquerys in the pass- through SQL string. I tried the same logic with Access and sure enough it works. And "Duh" did some research and it has been there all along. Sure speeds things up when you are dealing with very large tables of data. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 8 12:44:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 13:44:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Nested Sub Querys In-Reply-To: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D767925.6010904@colbyconsulting.com> Are you talking about WHERE PK in (SELECT PK FROM SomeOtherSet) kind of thing? I am using that a ton in SQL Server. It turns non-updateable queries (joined to something else) into updateable queries. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/8/2011 11:09 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey All > As Dan said OMG how much don't I know. > When fooling around with SQL Server I found you could next multiple subquerys in the pass- through > SQL string. I tried the same logic with Access and sure enough it works. And "Duh" did some research > and it has been there all along. Sure speeds things up when you are dealing with very large tables > of data. From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 13:12:19 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 11:12:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view Message-ID: I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting from one table. The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the role at the table level. The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. Any ideas? From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 13:28:48 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 13:28:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Message-ID: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 8 14:51:13 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 07:51:13 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 8 15:01:30 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 08:01:30 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 15:23:53 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 15:23:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> Are you talking about the entire suite or just the Total Access Analyzer? JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 8 15:40:48 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 00:40:48 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim -- Just put that fields' and tables' names into square brackets wherever you'll be referencing them. But if you have time and there are not that much places to rename that fields and tables - do renaming. The issues when that fields' and tables' names are not put into square brackets could be (query) compilation errors as well as "strange behavior" of MS Access including GPF-ing... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 8 ????? 2011 ?. 22:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 16:13:43 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:13:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4d76aa19.0d44970a.0fdc.ffffb9e5@mx.google.com> Shamil, I have done some renaming, but it seems to be a waste of time if "it works" without too many issues. Thanks, JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Hi Jim -- Just put that fields' and tables' names into square brackets wherever you'll be referencing them. But if you have time and there are not that much places to rename that fields and tables - do renaming. The issues when that fields' and tables' names are not put into square brackets could be (query) compilation errors as well as "strange behavior" of MS Access including GPF-ing... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 8 ????? 2011 ?. 22:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 8 16:41:35 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 01:41:35 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d76aa19.0d44970a.0fdc.ffffb9e5@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> <4d76aa19.0d44970a.0fdc.ffffb9e5@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <928F9161DE3046D79BE2EDB1EBC6B590@nant> Jim -- Yes, it will work - just when you'll find some "strange" MS Access behaviour - first of all check for reserved words used which are not put into square brackets. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 9 ????? 2011 ?. 1:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Shamil, I have done some renaming, but it seems to be a waste of time if "it works" without too many issues. Thanks, JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Hi Jim -- Just put that fields' and tables' names into square brackets wherever you'll be referencing them. But if you have time and there are not that much places to rename that fields and tables - do renaming. The issues when that fields' and tables' names are not put into square brackets could be (query) compilation errors as well as "strange behavior" of MS Access including GPF-ing... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: 8 ????? 2011 ?. 22:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue Mar 8 17:29:39 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 00:29:39 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David, Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you can give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the table. If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view then the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit privileges on the table itself. That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all objects in the database. Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting from one table. The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the role at the table level. The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. Any ideas? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Tue Mar 8 12:59:17 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 10:59:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Nested Sub Querys In-Reply-To: <4D767925.6010904@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7654A2.9050903@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D767925.6010904@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D767C85.60208@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John No I am talking about nested subquerys where You can do the original query on a join for example and do your calculations Then drill down with other subsequent subquerys to produce your final results Pretty cool. jwcolby wrote: > Are you talking about > > WHERE PK in (SELECT PK FROM SomeOtherSet) > > kind of thing? I am using that a ton in SQL Server. It turns > non-updateable queries (joined to something else) into updateable > queries. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/8/2011 11:09 AM, Tony Septav wrote: > >> Hey All >> As Dan said OMG how much don't I know. >> When fooling around with SQL Server I found you could next multiple >> subquerys in the pass- through >> SQL string. I tried the same logic with Access and sure enough it >> works. And "Duh" did some research >> and it has been there all along. Sure speeds things up when you are >> dealing with very large tables >> of data. > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 17:45:04 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 15:45:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: They got it going using CREATE VIEW vwViewName WITH VIEW_METADATA AS ... On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > David, > Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". > If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you can > give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the table. > If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view then > the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit privileges > on the table itself. > That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all > objects in the database. > Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql > Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: > EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view > > I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. > > In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting > from one table. > > The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the > role at the table level. > > The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? > > I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. > > > Any ideas? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Tue Mar 8 18:24:47 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 11:24:47 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Total Access Analyzer ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 8:23 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Are you talking about the entire suite or just the Total Access Analyzer? JIm -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Tue Mar 8 18:34:25 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 01:34:25 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A6C4C87443F43DB90C674BE625E64CA@abpc> Fine. Haven't used this option so far - interesting, will remember it for future cases. Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee Sendt: 9. marts 2011 00:45 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: Re: [AccessD] Can't update view They got it going using CREATE VIEW vwViewName WITH VIEW_METADATA AS ... On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > David, > Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". > If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you can > give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the table. > If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view then > the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit privileges > on the table itself. > That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all > objects in the database. > Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql > Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: > EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' > > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view > > I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. > > In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting > from one table. > > The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the > role at the table level. > > The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? > > I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into this. > > > Any ideas? > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 18:51:34 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 16:51:34 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Can't update view In-Reply-To: <4A6C4C87443F43DB90C674BE625E64CA@abpc> References: <4A6C4C87443F43DB90C674BE625E64CA@abpc> Message-ID: It had me confused too. The other developer tends to not use PKs (or uses a lot of multi-natural key indexes) so I figured that's what it was. I was too swamped today to give it any more time than I did. He had the view bound form working by giving rights to the table, so it wasn't like he was down. I let him borrow my Susan & Martin book (as I like to call it) and showed him the part in the book for possible reasons. D On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > Fine. Haven't used this option so far - interesting, will remember it for > future cases. > Asger > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > Sendt: 9. marts 2011 00:45 > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Emne: Re: [AccessD] Can't update view > > They got it going using > > CREATE VIEW vwViewName WITH VIEW_METADATA AS ... > > > > > On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Asger Blond wrote: > > > David, > > Looks like that you have a "broken ownership chain". > > If the owner of the table is the same as the owner of the view then you > can > > give privileges to the view without having to give privileges to the > table. > > If however the table has an owner different from the owner of the view > then > > the "ownership chain" is "broken" and you have to give explicit > privileges > > on the table itself. > > That's why it's best practice use the same owner (normally dbo) for all > > objects in the database. > > Did you check the owner of the table and the view? You can do this in Sql > > Server Management Studio using this command in a query window: > > EXEC SP_HELP 'name of table or view' > > > > Asger > > > > -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- > > Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af David McAfee > > Sendt: 8. marts 2011 20:12 > > Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Emne: [AccessD] Can't update view > > > > I have a coworker that is using an Access 2003 ADP. > > > > In the ADP he has a form which is bound to a view which is only selecting > > from one table. > > > > The View is not updateable unless he also gives update privileges to the > > role at the table level. > > > > The table does have a PK. Does the view need a unique index as well? > > > > I always use stored procedure and unbound forms, so I never run into > this. > > > > > > Any ideas? > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Mar 8 19:24:04 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:24:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com> <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <001501cbddf8$ade44fc0$09acef40$@net> Based on the size of the system and the detailed level (3000+ suggestions !) of feedback provided, I'd say this was a good product without even having used it directly. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > ________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________ > ________________ > > > > Jim, > > I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It > looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that > maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can > do. Or it may not be... > > be interested to know more for a real user. > > cheers > darryl. From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 14:02:37 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:02:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 9 14:22:42 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 15:22:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> Jim, <> Couple of comments: 1. Domain functions are often slower, but not always. There was a very old Smart Access article with timings that showed in some cases that domain function could be faster then other methods. If in doubt, test. 2. There are custom procedures out on the net to replace the domain functions, which give more flexibility and typically the same speed. 3. Domain functions should never be used inside of a SQL statement (query). Reason being is that they cannot be optimized by the query parser. Your better off with a sub select (and after all, all a Domain function really is is an encapsulated SQL statement). Even better yet, use another query as a base "table" in your query and do a join on it. 4. Use them like they were intended to be used; places where a VBA expression is allowed but a SQL statement or recordset is not. Or with Dlookup, which is used to fetch one value; don't use it to fetch five different fields from the same record. Instead, open a recordset, find the record, and have all the fields available. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 03:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Mar 9 14:25:54 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:25:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Tools (was: Access Reserved words) Message-ID: <003501cbde98$37d0d7e0$a77287a0$@comcast.net> I've use the Analyzer many times - and it is good at catching many things. It does take some practice to learn how to go through the list of errors and long lists of suggestions. I also think that it's cost is well worth it - I have avoided problems that customers would have experienced. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 2:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 9 14:29:09 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:29:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com> <796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> Message-ID: <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I'll review where I've used them and make adjustments as needed. Thanks again, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 2:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, <> Couple of comments: 1. Domain functions are often slower, but not always. There was a very old Smart Access article with timings that showed in some cases that domain function could be faster then other methods. If in doubt, test. 2. There are custom procedures out on the net to replace the domain functions, which give more flexibility and typically the same speed. 3. Domain functions should never be used inside of a SQL statement (query). Reason being is that they cannot be optimized by the query parser. Your better off with a sub select (and after all, all a Domain function really is is an encapsulated SQL statement). Even better yet, use another query as a base "table" in your query and do a join on it. 4. Use them like they were intended to be used; places where a VBA expression is allowed but a SQL statement or recordset is not. Or with Dlookup, which is used to fetch one value; don't use it to fetch five different fields from the same record. Instead, open a recordset, find the record, and have all the fields available. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 03:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Wed Mar 9 14:39:29 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 14:39:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Message-ID: Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Wed Mar 9 14:41:24 2011 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 15:41:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com><796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: If you want to do renaming, Rick Fishers Find and Replace will make it a breeze for ~$30 http://www.rickworld.com/products.html Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I'll review where I've used them and make adjustments as needed. Thanks again, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 2:23 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, <> Couple of comments: 1. Domain functions are often slower, but not always. There was a very old Smart Access article with timings that showed in some cases that domain function could be faster then other methods. If in doubt, test. 2. There are custom procedures out on the net to replace the domain functions, which give more flexibility and typically the same speed. 3. Domain functions should never be used inside of a SQL statement (query). Reason being is that they cannot be optimized by the query parser. Your better off with a sub select (and after all, all a Domain function really is is an encapsulated SQL statement). Even better yet, use another query as a base "table" in your query and do a join on it. 4. Use them like they were intended to be used; places where a VBA expression is allowed but a SQL statement or recordset is not. Or with Dlookup, which is used to fetch one value; don't use it to fetch five different fields from the same record. Instead, open a recordset, find the record, and have all the fields available. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 03:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Here's my take on the entire suite with an emphasis on the analyzer... There are 12 modules (separate software packages) in the suite. If purchased individually, the cost would be about $4,000. The modules are priced differently so splitting up the price will not give you a true depiction of their worth. Four modules utilize either an Active X control or an executable that needs to be installed on each user's machine. That said, and installation "package" needs to be developed and then run by an administrator to install them on the user's machines. Without the Active X control or executable on the user's machine they don't work and the controls that use them will be unrecognizable. Three modules can be used on ONE machine and by ONE person. The one person must have administrative rights to the network. Needless-to-say we will not be using these three modules. Five of the modules are specifically designed to be used on a single developer's machine. Three of them deal with writing code, with suggestions on how to write code, standardize code and how to adhere to "best practices" when writing code. One module compares database files and lists the differences between them, making suggestions on which option is best, and if needed merge them. The fifth and last module is probably the most powerful. The Analyzer module reviews the code, the structure of the database and makes recommendations on how to improve functionality (if possible) of the database and to help mitigate any possible errors. I ran the analysis on last Friday. I was given 244 errors, 3,042 suggestions and 830 performance suggestions. I know about most of them, but the complexity of the database and how we need to show, modify and manipulate the data is more important that squeezing out a few nanoseconds when running a query, showing a form or report. Most of the errors reported that a field did not exist... well I connect to an Excel spreadsheet and import several rows of data. When I connect to Excel it is linked to the database and then the link is destroyed. Of course, it does not exist, but there is no way the analyzer can know that. One suggestion is to "show hyperlink hand on hover" for buttons, etc. I do that with code in the "on mouse move" event. But what I didn't know is in A2007 one of the properties for buttons is "Cursor on Hover" which is set to default. The other option is "hyperlink hand." So do I want to change the 386 instances (or about 10% of the total number suggestions) to comply with the suggestion? One performance hit was my use of domain functions. I like domain functions. However, I'm told that they could possibly slow my database down and that I should create an "equivalent saved query." From my research there are people on both sides of this issue. Some say it makes no difference and in some cases it's the best choice. Other say never use domain functions. I say if it works - don't fix it. So far, I've deleted two tables that were not used; deleted 27 duplicate indexes, modified several queries in the hope of speeding things up; and analyzed several errors, suggestions and performance tips. I still have a lot of work to do to go through all their recommendations. Do I think it's worth the money. Yes. It costs $299 US as an individual package. I'm always looking for ways to slim down my code and to ensure error messages are kept to a minimum. If by going through this and 2 or 3 calls from users are NOT received... it's worth it. Two other packages that I like are the Speller and the CodeTools. The Speller is used by the programmer. It looks at the LABELS and CAPTIONS of objects to ensure everything is spelled correctly. It uses the dictionary from the Office package on the machine. For some reason, I misspelled Excel at least 10 times in the labels/captions. There were several other words that were misspelled that I didn't catch and during the usability testing were detected. I like it too. CodeTools is good and saved me several hours. I typically don't put in error trapping when a button only closes a form or quits the application. Using CodeTools, it verified and put in error trapping in the appropriate places if it was missing. So far that's my thoughts on the tools. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 3:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words try "be interested to know more FROM a real user." __________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins [Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 7:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words Jim, I would like to know more about your thoughts on this product. It looks rather useful, but i note it is also rather pricey. Now that maybe ok as it might still be great value for money given what it can do. Or it may not be... be interested to know more for a real user. cheers darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn [jm.hwsn at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 9 March 2011 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words My customer of the Access 2007 project I'm working on wanted some functionality that is not native to Access. For example, they wanted full Rich Text Formatting for several fields. These fields are used as feedback papers for the users. They purchased the FMS Total Access Ultimate Suite to be used with this project. One of the components is the Total Access Analyzer. I received the suite after I essentially finished the majority of the work. I ran the analyzer and it told me that I have 954 objects documented. It has 85 tables, 451 queries, 125 forms, 74 reports, 1 macro and 25 modules. It also informed me that there was a table that wasn't being used and a field in two queries that didn't belong to any table. It also told me it found 244 errors, 3042 suggestions on improving it and 830 performance issues. I haven't worked through most of them yet, but many are small things such as "transaction log" for a query is turned on and should be turned off. One item identified is: a column "conflicts with future SQL Server reserved word." I did some research and found out the reserved words it talks about have been on the list since at least 2000 and is still on list for SQL Server 2010. Another item was: a column "conflicts with Jet reserved word." In the description it says it's a "minor issue." I am aware of the problems of using reserved words. BUT. I used "language" and "comp" as field names. I should have known better, but I also used "order" and "default." I have had NO issues with these reserved words - yet. My question is: Should I spend the time to change the field names? If I don't change them, what kind of problems will it create? Thanks, Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael at mattysconsulting.com Wed Mar 9 15:08:53 2011 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 16:08:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Wed Mar 9 15:32:19 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 15:32:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> References: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> Message-ID: Michael, It could be but not sure how to do it. We have reports built to print one job, range of jobs, or all jobs. These reports drag data from multiple sources. We built a query to get the current jobs worked on and do a report in "pdf" and output to a file. Then we go get the next number and do it again. However if we could run the all jobs report and then print each page to a "pdf" to file it should save a lot of time. We are trying to go a little greener by filing on the server and not print to paper each page. This also allows all the engineers we have to go and view any job they want. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael at mattysconsulting.com Wed Mar 9 15:45:19 2011 From: michael at mattysconsulting.com (Michael Mattys) Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2011 16:45:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: References: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> Message-ID: <44833D0DAA8B44F8A9382DD9A7976043@Gateway> Steve, I think I'd use a recordset to get all relevant JobIDs and loop through them while altering the AllJobs querydef to change the parameter for JobID. Not sure, though, sounds like you have 'mitigating circumstances.' Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 4:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Michael, It could be but not sure how to do it. We have reports built to print one job, range of jobs, or all jobs. These reports drag data from multiple sources. We built a query to get the current jobs worked on and do a report in "pdf" and output to a file. Then we go get the next number and do it again. However if we could run the all jobs report and then print each page to a "pdf" to file it should save a lot of time. We are trying to go a little greener by filing on the server and not print to paper each page. This also allows all the engineers we have to go and view any job they want. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Wed Mar 9 22:46:30 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Wed, 09 Mar 2011 23:46:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access Reserved words In-Reply-To: References: <4d768373.2b42ec0a.22bb.3502@mx.google.com>, <201103082053.p28KrbLq026159@databaseadvisors.com> <201103082102.p28L1wWW031554@databaseadvisors.com>, <4d769e6c.0e37640a.79f2.40cd@mx.google.com> <201103090025.p290P9HH004334@databaseadvisors.com> <4d77dce0.cb05ec0a.039b.71cf@mx.google.com><796726CBA40C4446BF0EA8FF16DAF4E3@XPS> <4d77e318.261d640a.5220.17f8@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <000501cbdede$2065a770$6130f650$@net> I concur...I bot it and it's been great. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Tesiny, Ed > Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:41 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access Reserved words > > If you want to do renaming, Rick Fishers Find and Replace will make it > a > breeze for ~$30 > http://www.rickworld.com/products.html > > Ed Tesiny > EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us From sturner at mseco.com Thu Mar 10 09:12:49 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 09:12:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports In-Reply-To: <44833D0DAA8B44F8A9382DD9A7976043@Gateway> References: <9BA2BC2FA5684843ABD774A4814B4161@Gateway> <44833D0DAA8B44F8A9382DD9A7976043@Gateway> Message-ID: Michael, Thanks for the help. I didn't write the code but my boss did. However after thinking about it and how many records it was accessing well over 600.000 and the query output around 800, I figured that it would be a lot faster to write the all report data to a table and have his save code access that data to write to a file. Accessing the small file seems instantaneous to get a report. This should dramatically speed up the process. First time he ran his code it took over an hour and a half to process the way he was doing it. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:45 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Steve, I think I'd use a recordset to get all relevant JobIDs and loop through them while altering the AllJobs querydef to change the parameter for JobID. Not sure, though, sounds like you have 'mitigating circumstances.' Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 4:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Michael, It could be but not sure how to do it. We have reports built to print one job, range of jobs, or all jobs. These reports drag data from multiple sources. We built a query to get the current jobs worked on and do a report in "pdf" and output to a file. Then we go get the next number and do it again. However if we could run the all jobs report and then print each page to a "pdf" to file it should save a lot of time. We are trying to go a little greener by filing on the server and not print to paper each page. This also allows all the engineers we have to go and view any job they want. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Michael Mattys Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing reports Hi Steve, Isn't it simply a matter of filtering a query that the report is based on to the individual JobID and then output each one? Michael R Mattys Business Process Developers www.mattysconsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2011 3:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Printing reports Hey guys, Hope one of you can help us. We generate a list of numbers that are job numbers and print a report for each number. It takes about 2 minutes to generate a report. It then gets written to a directory as a pdf based on the job number. Well this takes quite a while for 50 reports. We can generate a report that has all 50 sheets in it about the same amount of time 2 minutes but we don't know how to print each sheet separately from that report to a file. In Access when you select print you can tell it what page to print. Is there some code that will select the sheet to print so you can set up a loop to go thru all the sheets one at a time? We are using Access 2010 to do this. Here is the code we use to print one sheet to the directory. ' CREATE THE REPORT IN JOB FOLDER ' PDF Format ' strFileReport = "F:\HMS\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" ' This should write to job file strFileReport = "J:\" & strJobDirectory & "\" & strJobFamily & "\" & strShortJobNo _ & "\0.0 M-S Internal Info\0.9 Labor Recaps\" & strJobNo & "_" & strReportDate & ".pdf" DoCmd.OutputTo acOutputReport, strDocName, acFormatPDF, strFileReport, 0 DoEvents RS.MoveNext Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc P.O. Box 1399 Hot Springs, AR 71902 E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com Phone: (501)321-2276 Fax: (501)321-4750 Cell: (501)282-7751 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 10 10:29:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 11:29:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database Message-ID: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two projects. I want to leave the existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved out, debugged and running and in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along the baggage of the old revisions into the new database. How do I go about this? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jedi at charm.net Thu Mar 10 11:49:52 2011 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 12:49:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database In-Reply-To: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> How about GET what you need and create a new project. Mike > I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two > projects. I want to leave the > existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved out, > debugged and running and > in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along the > baggage of the old > revisions into the new database. > > How do I go about this? > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 10 12:20:08 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:20:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database In-Reply-To: <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> References: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> Message-ID: <4D791658.90109@colbyconsulting.com> > How about GET what you need and create a new project. Uhhh... (scratches head???) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/10/2011 12:49 PM, Michael Bahr wrote: > How about GET what you need and create a new project. > > Mike > >> I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two >> projects. I want to leave the >> existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved out, >> debugged and running and >> in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along the >> baggage of the old >> revisions into the new database. >> >> How do I go about this? >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Mar 10 15:20:29 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:20:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From cjlabs at att.net Thu Mar 10 15:29:38 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:29:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and 2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time to find out what is different. These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" "mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work as they should in 2007. Carolyn Johnson St Louis, MO ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Thu Mar 10 15:38:03 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 10:38:03 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> Message-ID: <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 10 15:41:27 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:41:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: I would like to be able to obtain the names on all TABs on a Form so that I can work with these names in VBA (Access 2007). Thanks for your help, Brad From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 10 15:54:29 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 13:54:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machine and access 2010 Message-ID: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 10 16:00:05 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:00:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: Tab controls have a Pages property, one Page per tab. so you can find out how many tabs with MsgBox "Number of pages in TabCtl1:" & TabCtl1.Pages.Count And you can access the actual tab with TabCtl11.Pages(n) Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? I would like to be able to obtain the names on all TABs on a Form so that I can work with these names in VBA (Access 2007). Thanks for your help, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Thu Mar 10 16:40:34 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 16:40:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property On Error Resume Next CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue If Err.Number = 3270 Then Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp End If End Sub I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather than boolean values. Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do list. Guess I'll cross it off! Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 10 16:58:07 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 01:58:07 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> Message-ID: <3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 10 17:04:09 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 17:04:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? Thanks! References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: Lambert, Thanks for the help, I appreciate it. I have things working now with your assistance. Thanks again, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? Tab controls have a Pages property, one Page per tab. so you can find out how many tabs with MsgBox "Number of pages in TabCtl1:" & TabCtl1.Pages.Count And you can access the actual tab with TabCtl11.Pages(n) Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Brad Marks Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Is it possible to Programmatically Obtain the Name of all Tabs on a Form? I would like to be able to obtain the names on all TABs on a Form so that I can work with these names in VBA (Access 2007). Thanks for your help, Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 10 17:29:26 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 15:29:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net> <3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> Message-ID: <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 10 17:46:49 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:46:49 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Message-ID: <4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I use a more generic Function where you pass the property type as well: SetProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Public Function SetProperty(strPropName As String, _ varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_SetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_SetProperty: Exit Function Err_SetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else SetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_SetProperty End If End Function On 10 Mar 2011 at 16:40, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As > Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property > > On Error Resume Next > > CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue > If Err.Number = 3270 Then > Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) > CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp > End If > > End Sub > > > I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather > than boolean values. > > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 10 17:51:52 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 02:51:52 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net><3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> Hello Doug -- Is your source development PC 32 bit? I didn't try to solve the issue in details but for 64bit PC I do strictly setup custom .NET apps into C:\MyPrograms folder (you can call the target custom folder differently of course). Also for .NET code, which uses MS Access databases and compiled on 32bit systems and then setup and used on 64bit systems there should be the following command line applied: CorFlags.exe /32BIT+ MyDotNetUtils.dll CorFlags.exe can be found in WIndows 7 SDK AFAIKR. Be careful with applying corflags.exe for signed assemblies - I do use unsigned assemblies to simplify corflags.exe application to my custom .net apps and DLLs. <<< I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? >>> Not sure what you're asking here or I'd better write not sure if I'm answering your question: - my sample was a part/command line of .bat file I used - so it was fullpath or full command line not shortcut. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. CorFlags.exe /? Microsoft (R) .NET Framework CorFlags Conversion Tool. Version 3.5.30729.1 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Usage: Corflags.exe Assembly [options] If no options are specified, the flags for the given image are displayed. Options: /ILONLY+ /ILONLY- Sets/clears the ILONLY flag /32BIT+ /32BIT- Sets/clears the 32BIT flag /UpgradeCLRHeader Upgrade the CLR Header to version 2.5 /RevertCLRHeader Revert the CLR Header to version 2.0 /Force Force an assembly update even if the image is strong name signed. WARNING: Updating a strong name signed assembly will require the assembly to be resigned before it will execute properly. /nologo Prevents corflags from displaying logo /? or /help Display this usage message -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 2:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From member at linkedin.com Thu Mar 10 18:33:00 2011 From: member at linkedin.com (Janet Erbach via LinkedIn) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 00:33:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AccessD] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn Message-ID: <388117698.4424825.1299803580238.JavaMail.app@ela4-bed40.prod> LinkedIn ------------Janet Erbach requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn: ------------------------------------------ Doris, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Janet Accept invitation from Janet Erbach http://www.linkedin.com/e/s2e3k1-gl4dhpai-2e/GJGqr_Xcuww-eupoeCwqfm8l9PqY0AZwZCdqO6vpjBw/blk/I2680468753_2/1BpC5vrmRLoRZcjkkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYOnPcRdPwSd30Udz99bP5CqCB4q4hJbPoPdjARd3cUd38LrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/ View invitation from Janet Erbach http://www.linkedin.com/e/s2e3k1-gl4dhpai-2e/GJGqr_Xcuww-eupoeCwqfm8l9PqY0AZwZCdqO6vpjBw/blk/I2680468753_2/39vcPkTe3oQc3wScAALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/ ------------------------------------------ DID YOU KNOW you can showcase your professional knowledge on LinkedIn to receive job/consulting offers and enhance your professional reputation? Posting replies to questions on LinkedIn Answers puts you in front of the world's professional community. http://www.linkedin.com/e/s2e3k1-gl4dhpai-2e/abq/inv-24/ -- (c) 2011, LinkedIn Corporation From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 11 08:26:06 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:26:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SVN - removing all version control for a directory and all files underneath Message-ID: <4D7A30FE.8050500@colbyconsulting.com> I am trying to copy a solution to a new location, strip all version control from it, delete a ton of projects within that solution and then version control the new solution. I copied the entire solution from my laptop to a VM and under my user / projects there. The copy still appears to be under version control. I looked in help and it says to copy the directory to itself using the vsn right click menu. I did that and it removed the vsn green checkmark from the top level directory (the solution) but left the check mark on all of the subdirectories (projects and stuff). Does anyone have a clue how to completely and entirely remove a directory from version control - remove all green check marks from every subdirectory etc.? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 11 08:59:23 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 09:59:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] [dba-SQLServer] SVN - removing all version control for a directory and all files underneath In-Reply-To: <4D7A30FE.8050500@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7A30FE.8050500@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7A38CB.7090807@colbyconsulting.com> As it turns out, doing the "export to same directory" seems to actually "unregister" the directory from source control. It leaves the green check marks in explorer - not sure what that means. However if I go into the solution itself, it no longer has the version control dots next to the items in the solution explorer. So it appears to have removed that local copy of the solution from source control. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/11/2011 9:26 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I am trying to copy a solution to a new location, strip all version control from it, delete a ton of > projects within that solution and then version control the new solution. > > I copied the entire solution from my laptop to a VM and under my user / projects there. The copy > still appears to be under version control. I looked in help and it says to copy the directory to > itself using the vsn right click menu. I did that and it removed the vsn green checkmark from the > top level directory (the solution) but left the check mark on all of the subdirectories (projects > and stuff). > > Does anyone have a clue how to completely and entirely remove a directory from version control - > remove all green check marks from every subdirectory etc.? From jedi at charm.net Fri Mar 11 11:44:39 2011 From: jedi at charm.net (Michael Bahr) Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 12:44:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] split an SVN database In-Reply-To: <4D791658.90109@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D78FC73.6000202@colbyconsulting.com> <1173.24.35.23.165.1299779392.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> <4D791658.90109@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <3875.24.35.23.165.1299865479.squirrel@mail.expedient.net> GET is the common action term in SCM (Software Configuration Management) land to "copy" the files from the repository onto your computer. Then create a new project and add those files to the project. Mike > > How about GET what you need and create a new project. > > Uhhh... (scratches head???) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/10/2011 12:49 PM, Michael Bahr wrote: >> How about GET what you need and create a new project. >> >> Mike >> >>> I use SVN. I am looking at doing a major split of a project into two >>> projects. I want to leave the >>> existing solution until I have one half of the current project carved >>> out, >>> debugged and running and >>> in it's own SVN database. However I don't think I want to carry along >>> the >>> baggage of the old >>> revisions into the new database. >>> >>> How do I go about this? >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Sun Mar 13 10:20:31 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 07:20:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box Message-ID: <4D7CE0BF.7020105@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey All I have a test form with 2 list boxes, select an item in ListBox1 and it requerys ListBox2 and displays the results. No linked tables, not working with SQL Server, and no network connection. ListBox2 rowsource is a Query with where matrix=FndMyMatrix() Requery in ListBox1 AfterUpdate. Now most of the time if I arrow up and down in the ListBox1, ListBox2 is requeryed and quickly displays the result. But sometimes when I open the form and Arrow down to Item 2 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 3 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 4 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow up Item 4 to Item 1 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down Item 1 to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down to Item 6 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery Arrow down to Item 7 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery And so on. ListBox1 displays 20 items at a time. Sometimes I can quickly arrow down to the 20th item, but when I arrow down to Item 21, ListBox2 is slow to requery and so on. This action is erractic, 99.9% of the time I have no problem opening the form and quickly arrowing up and down ListBox1, then out blue the above activity occurs. Because it is erratic it is making it kind of hard to trap for. Anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing this? Please don't tell me to tell my client not to use the arrow keys. I have decompiled and copied the mdb. Thanks From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 13 11:03:20 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:03:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box Message-ID: <20110313090320.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.88fe5eef65.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> WAG - try the scroll trick: In the open event of the form dim x as Variant x=Me.Listbox1.ListCount May not make a difference but it's a 30 second test. And how about requerying listbox 2 after the user makes a choice ? Is making Listbox1 a combo box with an after update event where you could put the listbox 2 requery an option? Rocky -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box From: Tony Septav Date: Sun, March 13, 2011 8:20 am To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Hey All I have a test form with 2 list boxes, select an item in ListBox1 and it requerys ListBox2 and displays the results. No linked tables, not working with SQL Server, and no network connection. ListBox2 rowsource is a Query with where matrix=FndMyMatrix() Requery in ListBox1 AfterUpdate. Now most of the time if I arrow up and down in the ListBox1, ListBox2 is requeryed and quickly displays the result. But sometimes when I open the form and Arrow down to Item 2 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 3 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 4 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow down to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. Arrow up Item 4 to Item 1 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down Item 1 to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. Arrow down to Item 6 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery Arrow down to Item 7 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery And so on. ListBox1 displays 20 items at a time. Sometimes I can quickly arrow down to the 20th item, but when I arrow down to Item 21, ListBox2 is slow to requery and so on. This action is erractic, 99.9% of the time I have no problem opening the form and quickly arrowing up and down ListBox1, then out blue the above activity occurs. Because it is erratic it is making it kind of hard to trap for. Anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing this? Please don't tell me to tell my client not to use the arrow keys. I have decompiled and copied the mdb. Thanks -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Sun Mar 13 12:25:05 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 09:25:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box In-Reply-To: <20110313090320.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.88fe5eef65.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20110313090320.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.88fe5eef65.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <4D7CFDF1.1030501@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey Rocky Thanks Next time this weird thing occurs I will try the ListCount, may just do the job. Basically the ListBox2 is requeryed on AfterUpdate of ListBox1. It is just that because this weird thing happens out of the blue, that it has me baffled as to why/what causes it??? rockysmolin at bchacc.com wrote: >WAG - try the scroll trick: > >In the open event of the form > >dim x as Variant >x=Me.Listbox1.ListCount > >May not make a difference but it's a 30 second test. > >And how about requerying listbox 2 after the user makes a choice ? Is >making Listbox1 a combo box with an after update event where you could >put the listbox 2 requery an option? > > >Rocky > >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: [AccessD] Weird List Box >From: Tony Septav >Date: Sun, March 13, 2011 8:20 am >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >Hey All >I have a test form with 2 list boxes, select an item in ListBox1 and it >requerys ListBox2 and displays the results. > >No linked tables, not working with SQL Server, and no network >connection. > >ListBox2 rowsource is a Query with where matrix=FndMyMatrix() >Requery in ListBox1 AfterUpdate. > >Now most of the time if I arrow up and down in the ListBox1, ListBox2 >is requeryed and quickly displays the result. But sometimes when I open >the form and >Arrow down to Item 2 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow down to Item 3 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow down to Item 4 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow down to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery. >Arrow up Item 4 to Item 1 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. >Arrow down Item 1 to Item 5 in ListBox1, ListBox2 quickly requeries. >Arrow down to Item 6 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery >Arrow down to Item 7 in ListBox1, ListBox2 is slow to requery >And so on. > >ListBox1 displays 20 items at a time. >Sometimes I can quickly arrow down to the 20th item, but when I arrow >down to Item 21, ListBox2 is slow to requery and so on. > >This action is erractic, 99.9% of the time I have no problem opening >the form and quickly arrowing up and down ListBox1, then out blue the >above activity occurs. Because it is erratic it is making it kind of >hard to trap for. Anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing >this? Please don't tell me to tell my client not to use the arrow keys. > >I have decompiled and copied the mdb. > >Thanks > > > From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun Mar 13 15:22:36 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 13:22:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net><3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net> <0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> Message-ID: <000001cbe1bc$64b277b0$2e176710$@cox.net> Hello Shamil, Using the correct version of regasm did the trick. Thank you for your help. I may need to look at CorFlags if we ever move this to a 64 bit machine. Nice to know it is available. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Doug -- Is your source development PC 32 bit? I didn't try to solve the issue in details but for 64bit PC I do strictly setup custom .NET apps into C:\MyPrograms folder (you can call the target custom folder differently of course). Also for .NET code, which uses MS Access databases and compiled on 32bit systems and then setup and used on 64bit systems there should be the following command line applied: CorFlags.exe /32BIT+ MyDotNetUtils.dll CorFlags.exe can be found in WIndows 7 SDK AFAIKR. Be careful with applying corflags.exe for signed assemblies - I do use unsigned assemblies to simplify corflags.exe application to my custom .net apps and DLLs. <<< I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? >>> Not sure what you're asking here or I'd better write not sure if I'm answering your question: - my sample was a part/command line of .bat file I used - so it was fullpath or full command line not shortcut. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. CorFlags.exe /? Microsoft (R) .NET Framework CorFlags Conversion Tool. Version 3.5.30729.1 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Usage: Corflags.exe Assembly [options] If no options are specified, the flags for the given image are displayed. Options: /ILONLY+ /ILONLY- Sets/clears the ILONLY flag /32BIT+ /32BIT- Sets/clears the 32BIT flag /UpgradeCLRHeader Upgrade the CLR Header to version 2.5 /RevertCLRHeader Revert the CLR Header to version 2.0 /Force Force an assembly update even if the image is strong name signed. WARNING: Updating a strong name signed assembly will require the assembly to be resigned before it will execute properly. /nologo Prevents corflags from displaying logo /? or /help Display this usage message -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 2:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sun Mar 13 15:43:01 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 23:43:01 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll ona windows7 machineand access 2010 In-Reply-To: <000001cbe1bc$64b277b0$2e176710$@cox.net> References: <009901cbdf6d$bb4435b0$31cca110$@cox.net><3BF29266E15940A9BF752F869128D8F0@nant> <00a801cbdf7a$fef58ae0$fce0a0a0$@cox.net><0D89EFC58E2E4AB1AF0493B6DD09BB27@nant> <000001cbe1bc$64b277b0$2e176710$@cox.net> Message-ID: <9C53771FC0064F54B25FE225D9279938@nant> Hello Doug -- Good to know it worked there finally. Yes, Corflags helps me to develop .NET applications/web services on 32-bit system and to deliver that apps for a customer who has 64bit system... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 13 ????? 2011 ?. 23:23 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll ona windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Using the correct version of regasm did the trick. Thank you for your help. I may need to look at CorFlags if we ever move this to a 64 bit machine. Nice to know it is available. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Doug -- Is your source development PC 32 bit? I didn't try to solve the issue in details but for 64bit PC I do strictly setup custom .NET apps into C:\MyPrograms folder (you can call the target custom folder differently of course). Also for .NET code, which uses MS Access databases and compiled on 32bit systems and then setup and used on 64bit systems there should be the following command line applied: CorFlags.exe /32BIT+ MyDotNetUtils.dll CorFlags.exe can be found in WIndows 7 SDK AFAIKR. Be careful with applying corflags.exe for signed assemblies - I do use unsigned assemblies to simplify corflags.exe application to my custom .net apps and DLLs. <<< I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? >>> Not sure what you're asking here or I'd better write not sure if I'm answering your question: - my sample was a part/command line of .bat file I used - so it was fullpath or full command line not shortcut. Thank you. -- Shamil P.S. CorFlags.exe /? Microsoft (R) .NET Framework CorFlags Conversion Tool. Version 3.5.30729.1 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Usage: Corflags.exe Assembly [options] If no options are specified, the flags for the given image are displayed. Options: /ILONLY+ /ILONLY- Sets/clears the ILONLY flag /32BIT+ /32BIT- Sets/clears the 32BIT flag /UpgradeCLRHeader Upgrade the CLR Header to version 2.5 /RevertCLRHeader Revert the CLR Header to version 2.0 /Force Force an assembly update even if the image is strong name signed. WARNING: Updating a strong name signed assembly will require the assembly to be resigned before it will execute properly. /nologo Prevents corflags from displaying logo /? or /help Display this usage message -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 2:29 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows7 machineand access 2010 Hello Shamil, Thank you for your thoughts. The machine I am trying to install this on is windows 7 64 bit. I am new to running applications on 64 bit machines. I looked in the Framework\v3.5 folder and did not see regasm. Did not think of looking in v2.0. That may be the problem. I started with the dll/tlb in my work folder for testing but had issues with that, so tried system32 out of frustration/ignorance. In your example path to regasm you did not put the full path to the dll or tlb file. I have been putting in the full path. I assume yours was just a shortcut. True? As I said when I developed this it worked, but Visual Studio does the registration in the background so that wasn't an issue. I need to learn all aspects of moving this around so it will work on any user machine. Thank you again for your input. You have given me some things to try. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Hi Doug -- Is your MS Windows 7 PC a 32bit or 64bit one? What RegAsm command line format did you use? Something like that: C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v2.0.50727\RegAsm.exe MyDotNetUtils.dll /tlb:MyDotNetUtils.tlb /codebase /nologo /silent ? What's the use of custom DLLs put into c:\windows\system32 folder? I do use custom folder c:\MyPrograms for my customers - it works well - used .NET "COM-visible" DLL/typelib with VB6 front-end application as well as with MS Access 2003 and 2007 front-end applications. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: 11 ????? 2011 ?. 0:54 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] using a visual studio created dll on a windows 7 machineand access 2010 Folks, I have a dll I created in Visual Studio 3.5. that provides the capability to create very structured xml files from access data. It worked great on my development machine with access 2003 and visual studio 2008 installed on it. Now I have moved to a windows 7 machine. I moved the access 2003 mdb file to the Windows 7 machine. Moved my .dll and it's associated .tlb file to the Windows/system32 directory. Then ran the regasm version in the Windows\microsoft.net\framework64\v2.0.50727 directory. This is supposed to be the version of regasm.exe for framework 3.5 files. Regasm says it registered the dll and it is in the registry. The problem is I reference it from access using the vba tool/references menu. Can't even find it from the browse button on the tools/references when I look in Windows\system32. Anyone have any suggestions on this? I don't know if this is a permission/security issue or what. I need to figure this out as I need to be able to run this on various machines at a customer's office after I get it running here. There we have a mix of Vista and Windows 7 machines. I appreciate any guidance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun Mar 13 16:33:58 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 14:33:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Message-ID: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug From df.waters at comcast.net Sun Mar 13 16:41:58 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 16:41:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> References: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> Message-ID: <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Sun Mar 13 16:46:44 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 14:46:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> References: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000a01cbe1c8$2563aff0$702b0fd0$@cox.net> Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 13 21:58:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 22:58:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) Message-ID: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install it. I had a Windows 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I installed the runtime. I got the directory path declared a safe location and voila, the application ran. Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a friend's (rather old) XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine which it appears that I wiped and installed XP on some time ago. I installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then installed the runtime there and tried to run. No go. Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I built a little test version with just a single table and an autoform which automatically opened when the app opened. It actually reported that it couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). So I started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by SQL Server as it installs. However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out there for download. I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and ran a network cable so it is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to my network via my wireless and it runs. So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which makes sense since this is SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL driver to be part of the Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow me to hook up to the sql server instance. So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the sqlncli.msi installer installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, hitting the sql server over the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). And it works on this machine of mine. Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine (also running XP but on 512 megs of ram) and ensure that will run. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun Mar 13 22:21:52 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:21:52 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) In-Reply-To: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <021101cbe1f6$f7f23080$e7d69180$@activebilling.com.au> Hi John I'd be interested to know performance/speeds etc Darren -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, 14 March 2011 1:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install it. I had a Windows 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I installed the runtime. I got the directory path declared a safe location and voila, the application ran. Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a friend's (rather old) XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine which it appears that I wiped and installed XP on some time ago. I installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then installed the runtime there and tried to run. No go. Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I built a little test version with just a single table and an autoform which automatically opened when the app opened. It actually reported that it couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). So I started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by SQL Server as it installs. However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out there for download. I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and ran a network cable so it is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to my network via my wireless and it runs. So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which makes sense since this is SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL driver to be part of the Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow me to hook up to the sql server instance. So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the sqlncli.msi installer installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, hitting the sql server over the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). And it works on this machine of mine. Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine (also running XP but on 512 megs of ram) and ensure that will run. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 13 22:27:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 23:27:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) In-Reply-To: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7D8B31.4080405@colbyconsulting.com> And it runs on the friend's old machine as well. It feels like I might be working now. I have to say this has been one of the most complex jobs I have taken on, with Hamachi VPN networks, a virtual machine running the sql server database, and then the client machine running Hamachi and an Access 2007 runtime. Safe zones, sql server drivers not installed. It has been a challenge getting this running. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/13/2011 10:58 PM, jwcolby wrote: > I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install it. I had a Windows > 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I installed the runtime. I > got the directory path declared a safe location and voila, the application ran. > > Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a friend's (rather old) > XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine which it appears that I wiped and installed XP > on some time ago. I installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then installed the > runtime there and tried to run. No go. > > Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I built a little test version > with just a single table and an autoform which automatically opened when the app opened. It actually > reported that it couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). So I > started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by SQL Server as it installs. > However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out there for download. > > I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and ran a network cable so it > is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to > my network via my wireless and it runs. > > So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which makes sense since this is > SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL > driver to be part of the Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. > > It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow me to hook up to the sql > server instance. > > So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the sqlncli.msi installer > installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, > hitting the sql server over the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). > > And it works on this machine of mine. > > Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine (also running XP but on 512 > megs of ram) and ensure that will run. > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 07:48:12 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 08:48:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Simultaneous edits to ADO Message-ID: <4D7E0E8C.5080006@colbyconsulting.com> We have discussed questions regarding what happens when a form is bound to sql server via ado and two people edit the same record. I tested that this morning. 1) The edit symbol is only sporadically supported. Sometimes the symbol appears, sometimes not. I haven't discovered a pattern yet. 2) if two people try to edit the same record, the first to save does so with no error message, each additional save gets the "the record has changed" message and is offered the ability to save to a text file or the paste buffer. The button to overwrite is grayed out. 3) The second person to save gets the message even if they are not editing the same field. IOW it is detected at the record level. My guess is that this is the same behavior that you would get unbound using ADO. IOW it is up to you to trap the error and do something with it. since I use a framework I will be adding code to trap this error and attempt to discover if the second user is editing a different field. If so I may just save the edit with or without warning. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 07:53:57 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 08:53:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) In-Reply-To: <021101cbe1f6$f7f23080$e7d69180$@activebilling.com.au> References: <4D7D8447.4000003@colbyconsulting.com> <021101cbe1f6$f7f23080$e7d69180$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4D7E0FE5.6070808@colbyconsulting.com> I'm not sure how to test this in a meaningful way. I will be doing an install of this application on a system with varying connect speed. It is a PC running on a cellular link pretty far from a cell tower. It is roughly DSL speed at its best, but much less at its worst. I will post results from that system. I think I will have the framework log the time to open forms so that i can get a feel for the user experience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/13/2011 11:21 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Hi John > > I'd be interested to know performance/speeds etc > > Darren > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, 14 March 2011 1:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime (an maybe full install?) > > I am trying to get an Access 2007 runtime to run reliably anywhere I install > it. I had a Windows > 2003 virtual machine hanging around so I cleaned Office off of it, and I > installed the runtime. I got the directory path declared a safe location > and voila, the application ran. > > Full of confidence I installed Hamachi, the runtime package and the app on a > friend's (rather old) XP and it doesn't run. I dug out my old dev machine > which it appears that I wiped and installed XP on some time ago. I > installed Hamachi, got it on the VPN for this database etc. I then > installed the runtime there and tried to run. No go. > > Of course the runtime doesn't report errors or at least reliably. So I > built a little test version with just a single table and an autoform which > automatically opened when the app opened. It actually reported that it > couldn't talk to the odbc native sql driver (not the exact words of course). > So I started Googling and soon discovered that this driver is installed by > SQL Server as it installs. However an installer called sqlncli.msi is out > there for download. > > I downloaded that and tried to run. No joy. I turned the machine off, and > ran a network cable so it is directly on my network and voila, it runs. I > then disabled the cable so that it is connecting to my network via my > wireless and it runs. > > So it appears that the SQL driver is not installed as part of XP, which > makes sense since this is SQL Server 2008 Express version I am connecting > to. However I would have expected this odbc SQL driver to be part of the > Access 2007 runtime, but it seems not. > > It does appear that a download / install / reboot of the machine will allow > me to hook up to the sql server instance. > > So I am now running Hamachi, joined to this specific network, with the > sqlncli.msi installer installing the ODBC SQL Server native driver, plus the > Access 2007 runtime, running the full on app, hitting the sql server over > the vpn on 5.203.167.79 (the Hamachi IP for the server). > > And it works on this machine of mine. > > Now I have to install the SQL Server drivers on the friend's old machine > (also running XP but on 512 megs of ram) and ensure that will run. > > From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Mar 14 13:05:49 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 13:05:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709091@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I know I should know this but cannot seem to recall it now. How do I put the two parts together? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property On Error Resume Next CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue If Err.Number = 3270 Then Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp End If End Sub I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather than boolean values. Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do list. Guess I'll cross it off! Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon Mar 14 13:10:54 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 13:10:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709091@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: I have a module with the 2 subs -- SetAppProperties and ChangeAppProperties. When my start up form opens, it calls SetAppProperties which uses ChangeAppProperties to set them the way I want (original post), which includes showing my own menu bars. Because some properties have boolean values and some have text values, you need to treat them differently. Stuart posted a sub that handles both. HTH, Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 1:05 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I know I should know this but cannot seem to recall it now. How do I put the two parts together? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carolyn Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 4:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property On Error Resume Next CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue If Err.Number = 3270 Then Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp End If End Sub I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather than boolean values. Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do list. Guess I'll cross it off! Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 Carolyn, What is your code for the ChangeAppProperty routine? What does show in Access 2010 when your code is run? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >I have Access2000 format databases that run in 2000, 2002, 2003 and >2007 -- and the following shows my custom toolbars and does not show >the ribbon. HOWEVER, it does not work in 2010 -- haven't had time >to find out what is different. > > >These are the properties I set when I my start up form opens (using >the routine ChangeAppProperty to set the values): > > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", True > ChangeAppProperty "AllowFullMenus", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", False > ChangeAppProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", False > > ChangeAppProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", True > ChangeAppProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", True > ChangeAppProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", True > > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppTitle", "LTD Solution" > ChangeAppPropertyText "StartUpMenuBar", "mnuMain" > ChangeAppPropertyText "AppIcon", RetrievePathFile & "\LTD.ico" > > >"mnuMain" is my default menu bar, but I have 3 others that all work >as they should in 2007. > > >Carolyn Johnson >St Louis, MO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kaup, Chester > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 3:20 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > Finally figured out how to get rid of the Microsoft Office Button > and the ribbon in Access 2007. Under access options current > database mark the checkboxes allow full menus, allow default > shortcut menus and allow built in toolbars. Then run the code line > DoCmd .ShowToolbar "Ribbon", acToolbarNo when opening the > database. Now how do I make the custom toolbars (that I have for > the forms and reports) in my Access 2003 database show in Access 2007. Thanks > > > Chester Kaup > > Engineering Technician > > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > > Office (432) 688-3797 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 13:55:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 14:55:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox Message-ID: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Try this: Open firefox twice. Load different things in each. Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the other copy of firefox. Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance to the second instance. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Mon Mar 14 14:05:10 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:05:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Just like Google Chrome does. When did Mozilla catch up with Google? :-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox Try this: Open firefox twice. Load different things in each. Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the other copy of firefox. Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance to the second instance. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Mar 14 14:11:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 12:11:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: FireFox has done that for as long as I can remember. On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Heenan, Lambert < Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com> wrote: > Just like Google Chrome does. When did Mozilla catch up with Google? :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:56 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox > > Try this: > > Open firefox twice. > Load different things in each. > Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the > other copy of firefox. > Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second > copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance > to the second instance. > -- > John W. Colby > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 14 15:01:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:01:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D7E7403.5010402@colbyconsulting.com> It never occurred to me to try it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/14/2011 3:11 PM, David McAfee wrote: > FireFox has done that for as long as I can remember. > > On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Heenan, Lambert< > Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com> wrote: > >> Just like Google Chrome does. When did Mozilla catch up with Google? :-) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: >> accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 2:56 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox >> >> Try this: >> >> Open firefox twice. >> Load different things in each. >> Now click, hold, and drag the tab from one down to the toolbar and over the >> other copy of firefox. >> Wait for it to select, then drag the tab up to the tab bar of the second >> copy and drop the tab. You have now copied the tab from the first instance >> to the second instance. >> -- >> John W. Colby >> From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Mon Mar 14 15:06:35 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 09:06:35 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] I love Firefox In-Reply-To: <4D7E7403.5010402@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D7E64BB.8080102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D7E7403.5010402@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <9EF0178EA5594A1AA0084AEA2FE886B9@stevelaptop> ... until now. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: jwcolby Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 9:01 AM > It never occurred to me to try it. From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Mon Mar 14 15:26:52 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:26:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709116@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I tried your code with the following settings and still see the ribbon and no custom toolbars. I have no custom menus. Am I missing some settings? Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) SetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "SACROC Surveillance" 'SetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "" SetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\OilBarrel24.ico" End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 5:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I use a more generic Function where you pass the property type as well: SetProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Public Function SetProperty(strPropName As String, _ varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_SetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_SetProperty: Exit Function Err_SetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else SetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_SetProperty End If End Function On 10 Mar 2011 at 16:40, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As > Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property > > On Error Resume Next > > CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue > If Err.Number = 3270 Then > Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) > CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp > End If > > End Sub > > > I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather > than boolean values. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cjlabs at att.net Mon Mar 14 15:29:24 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 15:29:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com>, <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell><4D7962E9.19957.E4442F3@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709116@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: Try adding a default menu bar (eg File - Exit). Maybe that's the key. It would have your menu bar instead of the ribbon. I have custom menu bars and toolbars, and they both show with no ribbon. Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: Kaup, Chester To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I tried your code with the following settings and still see the ribbon and no custom toolbars. I have no custom menus. Am I missing some settings? Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) SetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False SetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True SetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "SACROC Surveillance" 'SetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "" SetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\OilBarrel24.ico" End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2011 5:47 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I use a more generic Function where you pass the property type as well: SetProperty "AllowBypassKey", dbBoolean, False Public Function SetProperty(strPropName As String, _ varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_SetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue SetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_SetProperty: Exit Function Err_SetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else SetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_SetProperty End If End Function On 10 Mar 2011 at 16:40, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > Public Sub ChangeAppProperty(ByVal sName As String, ByVal bValue As > Boolean) Dim prp As DAO.Property > > On Error Resume Next > > CurrentDb.Properties(sName) = bValue > If Err.Number = 3270 Then > Set prp = CurrentDb.CreateProperty(sName, dbBoolean, bValue) > CurrentDb.Properties.Append prp > End If > > End Sub > > > I have a comparable sub for properties that have text values rather > than boolean values. > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Mon Mar 14 18:30:17 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2011 16:30:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <000a01cbe1c8$2563aff0$702b0fd0$@cox.net> References: <000901cbe1c6$5c816830$15843890$@cox.net> <002001cbe1c7$7c42b880$74c82980$@comcast.net> <000a01cbe1c8$2563aff0$702b0fd0$@cox.net> Message-ID: <000301cbe29f$c9900f10$5cb02d30$@cox.net> All, I am wondering if this is an Access 2010 to SQL Server 2008 thing. I have a test computer set up with Windows XP, Access 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005. The upsizing wizard works as advertised. When I try to upsize the test backend on my development computer Win 7/64, Access/32, and SQL Server 2008 R2 I get an message stating that "C:\Users\'\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Access\ACWZUSR12.ACCDU" isn't found or spelled correctly, but it is there, and the table list is empty in the wizard. I reinstalled the named file and it still I still get the message. The named file is the Access Wizard Add-in. It will open. I also tried this on a laptop with Win 7/32 with office 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005 and that worked. Seems to be something with SQL Server 2008 or the 64 bit version of Windows. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried the upsizing wizard in Access 2010 with SQL Server 2008? Not much in Google help for this one. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 15 02:41:08 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 07:41:08 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9661D@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Doug I will try it today if I get time later Martin Sent from my Windows Phone -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: 14 March 2011 23:35 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment All, I am wondering if this is an Access 2010 to SQL Server 2008 thing. I have a test computer set up with Windows XP, Access 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005. The upsizing wizard works as advertised. When I try to upsize the test backend on my development computer Win 7/64, Access/32, and SQL Server 2008 R2 I get an message stating that "C:\Users\'\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Access\ACWZUSR12.ACCDU" isn't found or spelled correctly, but it is there, and the table list is empty in the wizard. I reinstalled the named file and it still I still get the message. The named file is the Access Wizard Add-in. It will open. I also tried this on a laptop with Win 7/32 with office 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005 and that worked. Seems to be something with SQL Server 2008 or the 64 bit version of Windows. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried the upsizing wizard in Access 2010 with SQL Server 2008? Not much in Google help for this one. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Tue Mar 15 10:23:01 2011 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 08:23:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9661D@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9661D@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <003c01cbe324$df2c95c0$9d85c140$@cox.net> Thank you Martin. That will be appreciated. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2011 12:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Doug I will try it today if I get time later Martin Sent from my Windows Phone -----Original Message----- From: Doug Murphy Sent: 14 March 2011 23:35 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment All, I am wondering if this is an Access 2010 to SQL Server 2008 thing. I have a test computer set up with Windows XP, Access 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005. The upsizing wizard works as advertised. When I try to upsize the test backend on my development computer Win 7/64, Access/32, and SQL Server 2008 R2 I get an message stating that "C:\Users\'\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Access\ACWZUSR12.ACCDU" isn't found or spelled correctly, but it is there, and the table list is empty in the wizard. I reinstalled the named file and it still I still get the message. The named file is the Access Wizard Add-in. It will open. I also tried this on a laptop with Win 7/32 with office 2010 and SQL Server Express 2005 and that worked. Seems to be something with SQL Server 2008 or the 64 bit version of Windows. Any thoughts? Has anyone tried the upsizing wizard in Access 2010 with SQL Server 2008? Not much in Google help for this one. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:47 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dan, Thanks for the thoughts. This is the back end so working with the actual tables. I am apparently getting a good connection as the wizard isn't complaining, it just isn't showing the access tables which you would think would be the first thing it would do since it is part of Access. I have done this a couple of times from Access 2007 and it worked with SQL server 2005 pretty easily. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 2:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Hi Dave, I would guess that if any of your tables are actually links, then nothing would show for them. Another issue I came across yesterday is that to complete the export, you must have TCP/IP enabled in the SQL Server Configuration Manager. Apparently the upsizing wizard does not use Named Pipes or Shared Memory. Good luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Murphy Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 4:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Upsizing Access 2010 database to SQL Server 2008 R2 Experiment Folks, I just started experimenting with Access 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 Express. One experiment was to see how the upsizing wizard works, or in this case doesn't work. I got a copy of Northwind for Access 2010. Split the database. Then in the back end I fired up the upsizing wizard. Everything goes well until we get to the part where you select the tables to export from a list box. Even though the back end is only tables the list box in the wizard is empty. Any idea what is going on here? Thanks in advance. Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Tue Mar 15 15:44:22 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:44:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] FYI Message-ID: <17F3E7E903E24B6CA5253BA915AAA070@XPS> FYI, VS 2010 SP1 is available for download and there has been a bunch of stuff released on Office 2010 development: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/office/gg549099.aspx Jim. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 15 21:26:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2011 22:26:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access runtime / SQL Server data project Message-ID: <4D801FD8.5020805@colbyconsulting.com> I went to the prison tonight to install the prison ministry database on a system there. Again the install looks like: 1) Install Hamachi and get it talking to the Hamachi server 2) Get Hamachi joined to the network for this specific project 3) Install the SQL Server native (ADO) driver using an MSI install package 4) Copy a directory structure with the database files - an application FE and my framework MDA 5) Run a little application which inserts registry stuff to make that directory a "safe location" 6) Run the application FE. This is moderately complicated by the fact that at this location the internet access is not "always on", but is a cellular (telephone) internet adapter on the end of a USB cable. So the user has to start the wireless adapter and get onto the internet, and then Hamachi has to log into the Hamachi server to get the point-to-point info to connect to my server. So we got the internet up, then I did 1 through 5 above. I have a test application which I try first which does *not* use my framework, but is just a simple form bound to one of the simplest tables on that SQL Server database. The test application opened and displayed the bound form just fine. It took me about 45 minutes to get to this point. When I double clicked on the real application file (mdb) it told me that the file that I just clicked on (the application MDB) could not be found. Say what??? I was a bit flustered by that but I went out to the applications folder and saw that Microsoft office had a folder so I drilled down into that and opened Access and ... it immediately (and without my asking) opened my application mdb that I had just been told couldn't be found. Say what??? So I closed it and went back to the application directory and double clicked the application mdb again and it opened, and continued to open without error after that. I created a shortcut to my MDB app on the desktop and opened it through that. The app is talking to SQL Server on my virtual machine server on my hardware at the office, over the internet - and a somewhat slow connection at that. I think the down link is about 380 kbit or some such. Anyway, I opened forms, entered some test data etc. It is working! It is not spectacularly fast but I have done zero optimizations to it. The main project form with a couple of regular bound subforms takes about 8-10 seconds to open. These same forms just snap open on the wi-fi at the local Arby's. So I will need to make sure that I use JIT subforms, and in the end I will probably have to go rework my framework to allow pulling a single record at a time for the main forms etc. Eventually I will use pass through queries to allow SQL Server to do the filtering and sorting of data. Stuff like that. But it works as is, lets me get something into their hands, and allows me to optimize once I have fleshed out the application itself. So there ya have it. Access runtime, using bound forms, on a too slow internet over an Hamachi software vpn to a virtual machine running Windows 2003 x86 with 4 gigs of memory running SQL Server 2008 Express x86. If that isn't "worst case" I don't know what is, not to mention a whole lot of esoteric technology pulled together to make one tiny little database work. ;) Having done that I have an immediate need for the exact same technology stack for two more projects. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 05:49:29 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 09:12:39 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 10:12:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] SQLOLEDB Message-ID: <4D80C557.1010606@colbyconsulting.com> Can I use an IP address as the data source property for the adodb connection? As I have discussed, I am hitting the SQL database over the internet using Hamachi. this morning I am researching how to bind forms to an ADO recordset. The first thing I have to do is establish a connection to the database as shown below. With cn .Provider = "Microsoft.Access.OLEDB.10.0" .Properties("Data Provider").Value = "SQLOLEDB" '.Properties("Data Source").Value = "5.203.167.79" .Properties("Data Source").Value = "VMDev\SQLExpress" .Properties("Initial Catalog").Value = cfw.mSVAppData("DbName") .Properties("User ID").Value = "XXX" .Properties("Password").Value = "YYY" .Open End With Using the ip address for the Data Source property throws an error on the .Open. Simply changing that to the hard coded database name allows the .Open. I changed to the following and it works! strCnn = "Data Source=" & cfw.mSVAppData("ServerIP") & ",1433;Network Library=DBMSSOCN;Initial Catalog=" & cfw.mSVAppData("DbName") & ";User ID=" & "XXX" & ";Password=" & "YYY" & ";" With cn .ConnectionString = strCnn .Provider = "Microsoft.Access.OLEDB.10.0" .Properties("Data Provider").Value = "SQLOLEDB" .Open End With End If I then used this to open a recordset as follows: Function ADORst(strSQL) As ADODB.Recordset Dim rs As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo Err_ADORst mCnnInit 'Create an instance of the ADO Recordset class, and 'set its properties Set rs = New ADODB.Recordset With rs Set .ActiveConnection = cn .Source = strSQL .LockType = adLockOptimistic .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .Open End With Set ADORst = rs Exit_ADORst: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_ADORst: Select Case Err Case 0 '.insert Errors you wish to ignore here Resume Next Case Else '.All other errors will trap Beep LogErr Err.Number, Err.Description, Erl, cstrModule, "ADORst" Resume Exit_ADORst End Select Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function And then in the form itself (onOpen) I did this: set me.Recordset = ADORST("MySqlStatementHere") and voila, my form is bound to an ADODB recordset. This should make a huge difference to my applications, allowing SQL Server to do the work and just return the data. And *supposedly* in all Access versions above 2000 the form is read/write. Of course I now need to test under runtime. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 12:04:11 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 13:04:11 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error Message-ID: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> "Data provider could not be initialized". Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Wed Mar 16 13:04:39 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:04:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not configured properly" http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: Restart IIS Restart computer Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error "Data provider could not be initialized". Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 14:23:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 15:23:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Issues when using ADO Message-ID: <4D810E36.40204@colbyconsulting.com> Interesting set of "gotcha's" http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 14:36:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 15:36:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 2:04 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not configured properly" > > http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: > > Restart IIS > > Restart computer > > Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) > > Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > "Data provider could not be initialized". > > Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 16 15:22:49 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 13:22:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John: It makes me wonder if you will have to go unbound on your series of applications? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 2:04 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not configured properly" > > http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: > > Restart IIS > > Restart computer > > Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) > > Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" > > Lambert > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > "Data provider could not be initialized". > > Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From phpons at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 16:05:48 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 22:05:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to insert a tag into an invoice? Message-ID: Hi all, I have the following situation to deal with at one of my customers. They scan the invoices they receive, and store the file into the file system. When the invoice get paid, they want to insert a tag (kind of validation signature) into the electronic file of the invoice, before saving it into a different directory. How would you the tag insertion? Is it at least possible? Thanks in advance for your input. Philippe From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 16:24:35 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 17:24:35 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D812A93.7040300@colbyconsulting.com> Well, let me put it this way. Unbound means rewriting my framework. A thousand or so hours. For free projects. Hmm... Seems unlikely. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 4:22 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi John: > > It makes me wonder if you will have to go unbound on your series of > applications? > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 12:36 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. > > http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO > > It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. > It really appears that > when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are a host of issues with > the RecordsetClone (which > is DAO) and that perhaps recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support > the form. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 2:04 PM, Heenan, Lambert wrote: >> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/300699 says "These errors occur when the > database cannot be found because of a data source that is not valid in the > ConnectionString for the page, or when the UseRemoteProvider property is not > configured properly" >> >> http://xlinesoft.com/asprunnerpro/faq.htm#initialized says "This error can > happen for a number of reasons. Usually it happens due to server components > conflict. You can try one of the following things to resolve this problem: >> >> Restart IIS >> >> Restart computer >> >> Install or reinstall Microsoft Jet 4.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) >> >> Reinstall Microsoft Data Access Components (MDAC)" >> >> Lambert >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 1:04 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error >> >> "Data provider could not be initialized". >> >> Has anyone solved this? I see a ton of "me too" responses out on the > internet but so far no "this is why and this is how to fix it. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From BradM at blackforestltd.com Wed Mar 16 16:27:32 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 16:27:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that might be useful. We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) in the Runtime environment. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 16:31:32 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 14:31:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the subform with ADO. Maybe I missed the post where you specified the code that was going sideways. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby wrote: > This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. > > http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO > > It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. > ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are > a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps > recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 16 16:43:53 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 07:43:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] How to insert a tag into an invoice? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D812F19.32276.22CE9AD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> EXIF tags? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format You can insert tags from Access by Shelling to the commandline utility ExifUtils http://www.hugsan.com/EXIFutils/ There are lots of EXIF viewers available, incluindg Explorer - just right click on an suitable scanned image and select Properties/Details. You can also edit tags and comments in the same place - just hover over the Value area and you will see a box "Add tags" etc. On 16 Mar 2011 at 22:05, philippe pons wrote: > Hi all, > > > I have the following situation to deal with at one of my customers. > > They scan the invoices they receive, and store the file into the file > system. > > When the invoice get paid, they want to insert a tag (kind of > validation signature) into the electronic file of the invoice, before > saving it into a different directory. > > How would you the tag insertion? Is it at least possible? > > Thanks in advance for your input. > > Philippe > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From phpons at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 17:02:03 2011 From: phpons at gmail.com (philippe pons) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 23:02:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to insert a tag into an invoice? In-Reply-To: <4D812F19.32276.22CE9AD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D812F19.32276.22CE9AD@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Thank's Stuart, will test it asap. Philippe 2011/3/16 Stuart McLachlan > EXIF tags? > See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format > > You can insert tags from Access by Shelling to the commandline utility > ExifUtils > http://www.hugsan.com/EXIFutils/ > > There are lots of EXIF viewers available, incluindg Explorer - just right > click on an suitable > scanned image and select Properties/Details. You can also edit tags and > comments in the > same place - just hover over the Value area and you will see a box "Add > tags" etc. > > On 16 Mar 2011 at 22:05, philippe pons wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have the following situation to deal with at one of my customers. > > > > They scan the invoices they receive, and store the file into the file > > system. > > > > When the invoice get paid, they want to insert a tag (kind of > > validation signature) into the electronic file of the invoice, before > > saving it into a different directory. > > > > How would you the tag insertion? Is it at least possible? > > > > Thanks in advance for your input. > > > > Philippe > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 16 17:05:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 18:05:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> In my framework I do JIT subforms. Part of the JIT subform process is to set the subform binding properties. I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. It appears that it is a known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field properties of a subform bound to ADO. Broken, throws an error, doesn't work, no fix. The work around is to filter the subform to only pull records for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset that the subform is bound to. So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. And in there somewhere I have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the parent fires (new parent PKID). All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to ADO. Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO recordset. I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as the DAO bound form. And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out a way to fix them. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > John, > > I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. > I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the > subform with ADO. Maybe I missed the post where you specified the > code that was going sideways. > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby wrote: >> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >> >> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >> >> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform linking. >> It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there are >> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 16 23:16:40 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 21:16:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? Message-ID: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Dear List: I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., fields into each table. Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Wed Mar 16 23:30:41 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 00:30:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: Rocky, Just curious, but why 3 tables? jack On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that > will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., > fields into each table. > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an > FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 16 23:29:27 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 15:29:27 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: <201103170431.p2H4VtxA018770@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ I usually have a seperate table for State and then a table for Postcodes with the state linked as a FK. Then I tie the Postcode table to the address (which has PCode and State together). Regards Darryl. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin [rockysmolin at bchacc.com] Sent: Thursday, 17 March 2011 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? Dear List: I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., fields into each table. Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 16 23:37:47 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 21:37:47 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their home address - even though in most cases the participant record would also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity would be different. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? Rocky, Just curious, but why 3 tables? jack On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > that will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, > etc., fields into each table. > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 17 06:40:21 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 21:40:21 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005>, , Message-ID: <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> For ease of maintenance, sInce the address is directly related to the entity, I'd put them in the entity tables. As long as you keep the address fields standard, you can always use a UNION query to get all addresses if you need to combine then, with a flag to identify the type of entity Select "C" Addres,City... from tblCompanies union Select "S" Addres,City... from tblSocieties union Select "P" Addres,City... from tblPeople I also agree with Darryl, I'd try to use some form of Postcode,City, State lookup table and only store an FK to that tree, rathe than full details of the geographical hierarchy -- Stuart On 16 Mar 2011 at 21:37, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one > is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their > home address - even though in most cases the participant record would > also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be > common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity > would be different. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack > drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB > Design Question - too much normalization? > > Rocky, > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > jack > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > > that will have address information. There will probably be no > > overlap. > > > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main > > fax, etc., fields into each table. > > > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 17 07:49:54 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 05:49:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005>, , <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <647831F9F306495CB40C4C7439033978@HAL9005> I have a zip code table - can't remember where I got it - that I use in several apps - the user can enter a zip code and the city and state are retrieved from the zip code table. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? For ease of maintenance, sInce the address is directly related to the entity, I'd put them in the entity tables. As long as you keep the address fields standard, you can always use a UNION query to get all addresses if you need to combine then, with a flag to identify the type of entity Select "C" Addres,City... from tblCompanies union Select "S" Addres,City... from tblSocieties union Select "P" Addres,City... from tblPeople I also agree with Darryl, I'd try to use some form of Postcode,City, State lookup table and only store an FK to that tree, rathe than full details of the geographical hierarchy -- Stuart On 16 Mar 2011 at 21:37, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one > is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their > home address - even though in most cases the participant record would > also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be > common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity > would be different. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack > drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB > Design Question - too much normalization? > > Rocky, > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > jack > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > > Dear List: > > > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > > that will have address information. There will probably be no > > overlap. > > > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main > > fax, etc., fields into each table. > > > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 07:50:45 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 08:50:45 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the application. From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will > apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that > might be useful. > > We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. > > While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user > interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) > in the Runtime environment. > > Brad From ssharkins at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 08:00:04 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:00:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: <7FD40A0658B64E6CA7F3F0DFE19ABD23@SusanHarkins> That was my question -- 3 tables of addresses? A Zip code lookup table can be a cool feature if someone's going to be entering lots of addresses and repeat Zip codes. Susan H. > Rocky, > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > jack > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > >> Dear List: >> >> I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that >> will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. >> >> Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, >> etc., >> fields into each table. >> >> Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and >> an >> FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 08:56:17 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:56:17 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <7FD40A0658B64E6CA7F3F0DFE19ABD23@SusanHarkins> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> <7FD40A0658B64E6CA7F3F0DFE19ABD23@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I concur with the PostalCode, City, State table set up -- very useful. With respect to the "addresses", will these be shipping address, billing address, physical location address, mailing address, etc... or any combination of same. This could be an issue if these are combined, and you now, or in future need to know which is which. Just a thought... jack On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > That was my question -- 3 tables of addresses? > A Zip code lookup table can be a cool feature if someone's going to be > entering lots of addresses and repeat Zip codes. > > Susan H. > > > > > Rocky, >> Just curious, but why 3 tables? >> jack >> >> On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > >wrote: >> >> Dear List: >>> >>> I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that >>> will have address information. There will probably be no overlap. >>> >>> Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, >>> etc., >>> fields into each table. >>> >>> Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and >>> an >>> FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 17 09:20:17 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 09:20:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many copies of the Runtime) 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a helping hand to you with Runtime. Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the application. From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will > apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that > might be useful. > > We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. > > While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user > interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) > in the Runtime environment. > > Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From Robert at WeBeDb.com Thu Mar 17 10:19:10 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:19:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> John, You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could not do that. You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both all the time through code. I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without the parameters. In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the _1 query. The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need to know any of the SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. Robert At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 > >Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, >modify and use" because you can't >modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am >going to have to become proficient >in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the >thread above which discusses this >for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the >combos and reports. > >This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never >had to use before. Working with >parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area >that I have always wanted to learn. > Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. > >-- >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 10:30:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:30:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D822918.5050508@colbyconsulting.com> Great idea Robert! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 10:31:31 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:31:31 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. Just be careful with this thinking. If you distribute the MDB it can be moved to any machine which does have the full Access install and can be modified there. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 10:20 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. > > There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. > > 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many copies of the Runtime) > > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. > > If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. > > You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a helping hand to you with Runtime. > > Brad > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby > Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > > That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run > time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to > troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the > application. > > From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it > will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> John, >> >> I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will >> apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that >> might be useful. >> >> We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. >> >> While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user >> interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) >> in the Runtime environment. >> >> Brad From BradM at blackforestltd.com Thu Mar 17 11:03:05 2011 From: BradM at blackforestltd.com (Brad Marks) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:03:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: John, Good point. I had not thought of that. None of our users have a full version of Access so this is currently not an issue, but things may change down the road. Thanks, Brad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 10:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. Just be careful with this thinking. If you distribute the MDB it can be moved to any machine which does have the full Access install and can be modified there. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 10:20 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > John, > > We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. > > There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. > > 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many copies of the Runtime) > > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA code, change things, etc. > > If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. > > You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a helping hand to you with Runtime. > > Brad > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby > Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > > That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to really fess up to using the run > time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details ironed out. Trying to > troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how to get feedback from the > application. > > From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even programmatically. If it > will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> John, >> >> I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will >> apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that >> might be useful. >> >> We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. >> >> While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user >> interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) >> in the Runtime environment. >> >> Brad -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Thu Mar 17 11:25:56 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:25:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Ribbon Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709591@houex1.kindermorgan.com> I have the following set up in the table USysRibbons. I thought it was supposed to hide the ribbon but all it does is remove all the tab names except home. Am I misunderstanding? RibbonName RibbonXML Menu Chester Kaup Engineering Technician Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP Office (432) 688-3797 FAX (432) 688-3799 ? No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 12:31:43 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:31:43 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <647831F9F306495CB40C4C7439033978@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> <4D81F325.9023.52AB92B@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <647831F9F306495CB40C4C7439033978@HAL9005> Message-ID: That might have been me, I gave it to several people many years ago. :) I tend to do this: tblAddress --------------- AddrID (PK) LocationName (Main Office...) Addr1 (line 1) Addr2 (line 2) Addr3 (line 3) faddr (Where I store any foreign/unhandled city, St, Zip) ZipID (Int, FK) AddrTypeID (int, FK) AddrNotes CountryID (intFK) entryDate entryUserID tblAddrZipList ------------------ ZipID (Int, PK) ZipCode (I only store the 5 digit zip, if +4 is needed, I'd store it up in tblAddress) City DefaultCity (Boolean) State (probably better idea to store StateID) TerritoryID (if needed, can also place in tblAddress if not Zipcode based) tblAdressType -------------- AddrTypeID (PK) AddrType (BillTo, ShipTo, Both...) tblAddressContactMethod (Junction Table) ------------------------ AddrCtcID (Int PK) ctcMethodID (Int FK) ctcInfo (619-555-1212, SomeGuy at Gmail.com, www.SomeAddress.com) entryDate entryUserID tblContactMethod ------------------------- ctcMethodID (Int PK) ContactMethod (Phone, Fax, Email, Website, Cell#, Some new technology that hasn't been invented yet) DisplayOrder entryDate entryUserID I usually use junction tables between tblCompany and tblAddress as a company can have multiple address and an address can have multiple businesses running out of it. I also keep all companies in one table, whether they are a customer, prospect, vendor, distributor. A simple flag/FKid can tell me what they are. I do the same with contacts and ContactMethod (as above with addresses) . HTH David On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 5:49 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I have a zip code table - can't remember where I got it - that I use in > several apps - the user can enter a zip code and the city and state are > retrieved from the zip code table. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:40 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? > > For ease of maintenance, sInce the address is directly related to the > entity, I'd put them in the entity tables. As long as you keep the address > fields standard, you can always use a UNION query to get all addresses if > you need to combine then, with a flag to identify the type of entity > > Select "C" Addres,City... from tblCompanies union Select "S" Addres,City... > from tblSocieties union Select "P" Addres,City... from tblPeople > > I also agree with Darryl, I'd try to use some form of Postcode,City, State > lookup table and only store an FK to that tree, rathe than full details of > the geographical hierarchy > > -- > Stuart > > > On 16 Mar 2011 at 21:37, Rocky Smolin wrote: > > > Different entities - one is a list of state accounting societies, one > > is a list of companies, the third are people/participants with their > > home address - even though in most cases the participant record would > > also have a FK to the company table. So the address fields would be > > common to all three but then the other fields describing each entity > > would be different. > > > > Rocky > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jack > > drawbridge Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:31 PM To: Access > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DB > > Design Question - too much normalization? > > > > Rocky, > > Just curious, but why 3 tables? > > jack > > > > On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Rocky Smolin > > wrote: > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables > > > that will have address information. There will probably be no > > > overlap. > > > > > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main > > > fax, etc., fields into each table. > > > > > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK > > > and an FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > > > > > > > > > MTIA > > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 12:34:16 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 10:34:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8095B9.4020103@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8203A5.1030209@colbyconsulting.com> <4D822953.7060103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Release it as an ADE/MDE ;) On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 8:31 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA > code, change things, etc. > > > Just be careful with this thinking. If you distribute the MDB it can be > moved to any machine which does have the full Access install and can be > modified there. > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/17/2011 10:20 AM, Brad Marks wrote: > >> John, >> >> We have had pretty good luck with Access 2007 Runtime. >> >> There are two main reasons why we deploy it for our users. >> >> 1) It is free (We have only purchased one "full version" and we have many >> copies of the Runtime) >> >> 2) It automatically locks things down so that users cannot get at the VBA >> code, change things, etc. >> >> If you run into issues, please post them and I will try to help if I can. >> >> You have posted an incredible amount of valuable info here on AccessD >> which has been beneficial to the rest of us. Now maybe we can offer a >> helping hand to you with Runtime. >> >> Brad >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of jwcolby >> Sent: Thu 3/17/2011 7:50 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> >> That is good to know Brad. You are the first person in the group to >> really fess up to using the run >> time. It has been a learning experience trying to get all of the details >> ironed out. Trying to >> troubleshoot if I have problems is a royal PITA since I have no clue how >> to get feedback from the >> application. >> >> From what I was reading the runtime did not allow changes to objects even >> programmatically. If it >> will allow that then I will be able to do much more with my apps. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:27 PM, Brad Marks wrote: >> >>> John, >>> >>> I might be misunderstanding things (like a good Minnesotian I will >>> apologize up front) but I thought that I would reply with info that >>> might be useful. >>> >>> We use Access 2007 Runtime quite a bit. >>> >>> While it is true that a person cannot modify objects via the "user >>> interface", we have applications that change Query-Defs (using VBA code) >>> in the Runtime environment. >>> >>> Brad >>> >> -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 13:12:36 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:12:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. And the master and child links likewise. That's part of the reason why I always used unbound forms/subforms with ADO. I realize your framework is based on bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you might expect, so I didn't go there. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to > set the subform binding properties. > > I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a > known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field > properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't > work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull records > for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset that > the subform is bound to. > > So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search > around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. > > Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form > stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere I > have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the > form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement > (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the parent > fires (new parent PKID). > > All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to ADO. > > Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO > recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the > ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets > the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. > > Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as > the DAO bound form. > > And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out a > way to fix them. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> John, >> >> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >> code that was going sideways. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>> >>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>> >>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>> linking. >>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>> are >>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 13:24:17 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 11:24:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DB Design Question - too much normalization? In-Reply-To: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> References: <09F41EA1EBDD446DBA4AD7126EF18AA4@HAL9005> Message-ID: I always used a separate "phone table" with a field that described the type, including fax. It was bound to the address table and the person ID to allow for multiple phone numbers. I used a default of zero in the Person ID when the number only applied to an address and was non-specific to a person. Of course, that required a 0 Person ID in the table describing the person, but I always did that anyhow to allow for complex keys and unavailable information. I also had a field in the Address table that described type, so that it could cover a business address or a personal address. If needed, I had a one-to-one table for additional address information peculiar to a particular type. Since zip codes can belong to multiple cities or even to buildings, and cities can have multiple zip codes, I gave up on those and just stored them with the address. The USPS has zip code files, but unless you need to validate to the street address level, I wouldn't bother. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 9:16 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I'm putting together an app for a client that will have three tables that > will have address information. ?There will probably be no overlap. > > Normally I would put address, city, state, zip, main phone, main fax, etc., > fields into each table. > > Is there any reason to make an "address" table with an autonumber PK and an > FK to the address table in each of the other three tables? > > > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 17 15:57:26 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 13:57:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Charlotte: If that was true why does the following not product an error? Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. And the master and child links likewise. That's part of the reason why I always used unbound forms/subforms with ADO. I realize your framework is based on bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you might expect, so I didn't go there. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby wrote: > In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to > set the subform binding properties. > > I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a > known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field > properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't > work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull records > for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset that > the subform is bound to. > > So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search > around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. > > Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form > stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere I > have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the > form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement > (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the parent > fires (new parent PKID). > > All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to ADO. > > Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO > recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the > ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets > the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. > > Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as > the DAO bound form. > > And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out a > way to fix them. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> John, >> >> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >> code that was going sideways. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> >> >> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>> >>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>> >>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>> linking. >>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>> are >>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 17 16:23:13 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 17:23:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D827BC1.2040005@colbyconsulting.com> Jim, She didn't say .Clone doesn't exist, she said it functions differently from the DAO Recordsetclone. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 4:57 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Charlotte: > > If that was true why does the following not product an error? > > > Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset > > Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and > Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. And the master > and child links likewise. That's part of the reason why I always used > unbound forms/subforms with ADO. I realize your framework is based on > bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable > binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you > might expect, so I didn't go there. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >> In my framework I do JIT subforms. Part of the JIT subform process is to >> set the subform binding properties. >> >> I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. It appears that it is a >> known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field >> properties of a subform bound to ADO. Broken, throws an error, doesn't >> work, no fix. The work around is to filter the subform to only pull > records >> for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset > that >> the subform is bound to. >> >> So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search >> around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. >> >> Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form >> stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. And in there somewhere > I >> have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the >> form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement >> (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the > parent >> fires (new parent PKID). >> >> All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to > ADO. >> >> Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO >> recordset. I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the >> ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets >> the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. >> >> Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as >> the DAO bound form. >> >> And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out > a >> way to fix them. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >>> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >>> subform with ADO. Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >>> code that was going sideways. >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>>> >>>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>>> >>>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>>> linking. >>>> It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>>> are >>>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 17 18:46:24 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2011 16:46:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: The recordset produced by recordset.clone is not the same as the recordsetclone. If you modify RecordsetClone, the change is reflected in the recordset. When you create a recordset using clone, the original and the clone do not interact in that way, or at least they didn't in the versions of Access with which I actually worked (through 2002). Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Charlotte: > > If that was true why does the following not product an error? > > > Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset > > Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and > Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. ?And the master > and child links likewise. ?That's part of the reason why I always used > unbound forms/subforms with ADO. ?I realize your framework is based on > bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable > binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you > might expect, so I didn't go there. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >> In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to >> set the subform binding properties. >> >> I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a >> known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field >> properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't >> work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull > records >> for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset > that >> the subform is bound to. >> >> So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search >> around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. >> >> Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form >> stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere > I >> have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the >> form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement >> (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the > parent >> fires (new parent PKID). >> >> All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to > ADO. >> >> Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO >> recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the >> ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets >> the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. >> >> Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as >> the DAO bound form. >> >> And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out > a >> way to fix them. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >>> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >>> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >>> code that was going sideways. >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >>> ?wrote: >>>> >>>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>>> >>>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>>> >>>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>>> linking. >>>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>>> are >>>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 18 05:57:34 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 03:57:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error In-Reply-To: References: <4D80ED8B.2050702@colbyconsulting.com> <4D811129.2040102@colbyconsulting.com> <4D813420.6000605@colbyconsulting.com> <0841B06786E7463AB159CD629A581544@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Charlotte: It appears that I may have never actually used this recordsetclone, never knew the function existed and now I will never have an opportunity to use it again. For that reason I was confused and thought you were discussing recordset.clone. It is sad to know some poor function died before I had a chance to abuse it. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 4:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error The recordset produced by recordset.clone is not the same as the recordsetclone. If you modify RecordsetClone, the change is reflected in the recordset. When you create a recordset using clone, the original and the clone do not interact in that way, or at least they didn't in the versions of Access with which I actually worked (through 2002). Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 1:57 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Charlotte: > > If that was true why does the following not product an error? > > > Dim rsAccounts As New ADODB.Recordset > > Set rsAccounts = LetterProcessing(typeCmpConfig.CompanyCode, strGroup).Clone > > > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] subform bound to ado recordset throws error > > RecordsetClone is strictly DAO, so no, it doesn't work with ADO, and > Recordset.Clone is entirely different functionality. ?And the master > and child links likewise. ?That's part of the reason why I always used > unbound forms/subforms with ADO. ?I realize your framework is based on > bound recordsets, but in spite of the fact that after A2k they enable > binding forms to ADO recordsets, it just doesn't work the way you > might expect, so I didn't go there. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:05 PM, jwcolby > wrote: >> In my framework I do JIT subforms. ?Part of the JIT subform process is to >> set the subform binding properties. >> >> I have never used forms bound to ADO recordsets. ?It appears that it is a >> known issue that you cannot set the Link Master Field and Link Child Field >> properties of a subform bound to ADO. ?Broken, throws an error, doesn't >> work, no fix. ?The work around is to filter the subform to only pull > records >> for the PK of the parent in the sql that you use to open the recordset > that >> the subform is bound to. >> >> So my framework was throwing an error on this code and I had to search >> around to finally find that yep, it doesn't work. >> >> Which means I have to tell my framework's dclsFrm which handles all form >> stuff that the form is bound to an ADO recordset. ?And in there somewhere > I >> have to figure out a generic way to set the subform's ADO recordset (the >> form will be bound to an ADO recordset) to use a different SQL statement >> (WHERE FKID = Parent PKID) and requery when the current event of the > parent >> fires (new parent PKID). >> >> All doable I think, just edits to the framework to adapt to binding to > ADO. >> >> Another issue is that the RecordsetClone is hosed when bound to an ADO >> recordset. ?I use that to sync my record finder cbo to the form, using the >> ancient code which moves the recordsetclone to the right record, then gets >> the bookmark of the clone and sets the bookmark of the form to that. >> >> Again, nothing that can't be handled, it just doesn't work the same way as >> the DAO bound form. >> >> And I had to find out where all the errors were coming from and figure out > a >> way to fix them. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/16/2011 5:31 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> I learned early not to try and mix DAO and ADO in the same routines. >>> I always used the parent form's events to set the source for the >>> subform with ADO. ?Maybe I missed the post where you specified the >>> code that was going sideways. >>> >>> Charlotte Foust >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:36 PM, jwcolby >>> ?wrote: >>>> >>>> This seems to be a known issue without a resolution. >>>> >>>> http://www.utteraccess.com/wiki/index.php/Using_ADO >>>> >>>> It was occurring specifically when I was trying to use the subform >>>> linking. >>>> ?It really appears that when any form is bound to an ADO recordset there >>>> are >>>> a host of issues with the RecordsetClone (which is DAO) and that perhaps >>>> recordsetclone is used internally by DOA to support the form. >>>> >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 07:04:03 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:04:03 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D834A33.1030607@colbyconsulting.com> Robert, Are you using bound forms? Does anyone know how to compare binding to pass through query as opposed to binding to ADO recordset? It seems that binding to a pass-through would leave me in DAO which my framework supports already. Binding to an ADO recordset leaves me in ADO. It is totally unclear to me what goes on in either case "behind the scenes" pulling records from SQL Server, updating the records, updating back to SQL Server and so forth. In a few months or so I will have a better idea of what actually happens but it is tough to make design decisions without already knowing this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 07:18:20 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D834D8C.4040806@colbyconsulting.com> Robert, What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It immediately asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any time I do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. Am I missing something? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 07:29:47 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:29:47 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> Message-ID: <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> Robert, From my reading, pass through queries are always returned in a snapshot which makes them non-updateable? These would work great for combos and such but not for bound editable forms correct? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > John, > > You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could > not do that. > You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both > all the time > through code. > > I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). > The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without > the parameters. > In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the > _1 query. > The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. > > By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need > to know any of the > SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. > > I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this methodology. > > Robert > > > At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >> >> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >> >> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to learn. >> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From delam at zyterra.com Fri Mar 18 08:05:21 2011 From: delam at zyterra.com (Debbie) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:05:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 Ribbon In-Reply-To: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709591@houex1.kindermorgan.com> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709591@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Message-ID: <0651A8A6-C1D3-44BE-810A-E3ABE33D6183@zyterra.com> Best I can see that should do it, however it may want something in it's place rather than a totally blank slate. Personally I have never left it completely blank. Debbie. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 17, 2011, at 11:25 AM, "Kaup, Chester" wrote: > I have the following set up in the table USysRibbons. I thought it > was supposed to hide the ribbon but all it does is remove all the > tab names except home. Am I misunderstanding? > > RibbonName RibbonXML > Menu "http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/01/customui"> > > > > > > Chester Kaup > Engineering Technician > Kinder Morgan CO2 Company, LLP > Office (432) 688-3797 > FAX (432) 688-3799 > > > No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large > number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Mar 18 10:50:38 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 07:50:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D834D8C.4040806@colbyconsulting.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> <4D834D8C.4040806@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D837F4E.8060103@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John In farting around learning SQl Server. At the moment very simply I use For a pass-through query - QryMatrixGrp Dim qdfPassMatrix as QueryDef On form open Set qdfPassMatrix=db.QueryDefs("QryMatrixGrp") qdfPassMatrix.Connect = "Your Connect String" Hope this helps jwcolby wrote: > Robert, > > What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? > > I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it > pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It > immediately asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for > the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user > name / password any time I do anything with that query or the form > that is bound to that query. > > Am I missing something? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > >> John, >> >> You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure >> where you got the idea you could >> not do that. >> You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and >> queries can be modified. I do both >> all the time >> through code. >> >> I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). >> The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case >> of a passthrough query, without >> the parameters. >> In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or >> parameters, then replace the SQL in the >> _1 query. >> The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. >> >> By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or >> parameters, it does not need >> to know any of the >> SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the >> code. >> >> I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and >> Access 2010 with this methodology. >> >> Robert >> >> >> At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> >>> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >>> From: jwcolby >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> >>> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >>> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>> >>> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >>> >>> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, >>> modify and use" because you can't >>> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am >>> going to have to become proficient >>> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the >>> thread above which discusses this >>> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the >>> combos and reports. >>> >>> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never >>> had to use before. Working with >>> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area >>> that I have always wanted to learn. >>> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Fri Mar 18 11:00:01 2011 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:00:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D838181.40005@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John Correct as to what I found out/read so far. Combos, list boxes, reports and read only forms. jwcolby wrote: > Robert, > > From my reading, pass through queries are always returned in a > snapshot which makes them non-updateable? These would work great for > combos and such but not for bound editable forms correct? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: > >> John, >> >> You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure >> where you got the idea you could >> not do that. >> You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and >> queries can be modified. I do both >> all the time >> through code. >> >> I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). >> The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case >> of a passthrough query, without >> the parameters. >> In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or >> parameters, then replace the SQL in the >> _1 query. >> The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. >> >> By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or >> parameters, it does not need >> to know any of the >> SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the >> code. >> >> I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and >> Access 2010 with this methodology. >> >> Robert >> >> >> At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >> >>> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >>> From: jwcolby >>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> >>> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >>> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>> >>> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >>> >>> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, >>> modify and use" because you can't >>> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am >>> going to have to become proficient >>> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the >>> thread above which discusses this >>> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the >>> combos and reports. >>> >>> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never >>> had to use before. Working with >>> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area >>> that I have always wanted to learn. >>> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 10:39:02 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 11:39:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: <4D838181.40005@nanaimo.ark.com> References: <0AF2731D-5EA9-4735-BDD6-984F9A034892@holly.arvixe.com> <4D83503B.8010200@colbyconsulting.com> <4D838181.40005@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: <4D837C96.9030806@colbyconsulting.com> It's slowly starting to work... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 12:00 PM, Tony Septav wrote: > Hey John > Correct as to what I found out/read so far. Combos, list boxes, reports and read only forms. > > jwcolby wrote: > >> Robert, >> >> From my reading, pass through queries are always returned in a snapshot which makes them >> non-updateable? These would work great for combos and such but not for bound editable forms correct? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/17/2011 11:19 AM, Robert wrote: >> >>> John, >>> >>> You can modify querydefs in a runtime environment. I am not sure where you got the idea you could >>> not do that. >>> You cannot modify forms, reports, macros, or modules. Tables and queries can be modified. I do both >>> all the time >>> through code. >>> >>> I use and teach a system of using 2 queries (_0 and _1). >>> The _0 query holds the base SQL without a where clause. In the case of a passthrough query, without >>> the parameters. >>> In code, I grab the SQL from the _0, add any Where clause or parameters, then replace the SQL in the >>> _1 query. >>> The comboboxes, reports, forms, etc. are always based on the _1 query. >>> >>> By doing this, the code behind only needs to know the Where clause or parameters, it does not need >>> to know any of the >>> SQL behind the queries. So, the queries can change and not affect the code. >>> >>> I just finished a rather massive implementation of SQL 2008 R2 and Access 2010 with this >>> methodology. >>> >>> Robert >>> >>> >>> At 07:50 AM 3/17/2011, you wrote: >>> >>>> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2011 06:49:29 -0400 >>>> From: jwcolby >>>> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>> >>>> Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >>>> Message-ID: <4D8095B9.4020103 at colbyconsulting.com> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>>> >>>> http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1296308&page=269 >>>> >>>> Using runtime means that you cannot do the typical "open the qdf, modify and use" because you can't >>>> modify objects in the runtime environment. For that reason I am going to have to become proficient >>>> in stored procedures and passing parameters to them. I found the thread above which discusses this >>>> for the form itself. Can the same kind of thing be done for the combos and reports. >>>> >>>> This project is has already taught me a ton of things that I never had to use before. Working with >>>> parameterized stored procedures from Access is another such area that I have always wanted to >>>> learn. >>>> Any tips and tricks are always appreciated. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> John W. Colby >>>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 11:14:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 12:14:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near Message-ID: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 I modified it to add the table name. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. The following compiles and runs in sql server SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can filter the result set to only a specific set of records. When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Fri Mar 18 12:42:03 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:42:03 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Hi John -- According to the common usage style It would be more correct to write : SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) T1 WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but you can often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) - and you'll be safe & you'll reach the richness.. :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 I modified it to add the table name. SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. The following compiles and runs in sql server SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can filter the result set to only a specific set of records. When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 14:29:02 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:29:02 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> Yep. I am generating the SQL in Access and I test the SQL in a query in Access, where it worked just fine. It is only when trying to give the SQL to an ado recordset object and have that object ask SQL Server for the data that the problem reared its ugly head. It took me a few minutes of head scratching to figure it out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 1:42 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi John -- > > According to the common usage style It would be more correct to write : > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) T1 > WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but you can > often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) - and you'll be safe& you'll reach > the richness.. :) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near > > The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. > > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE > PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I modified it to add the table name. > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) WHERE > tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. > > PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. > > The following compiles and runs in sql server > > SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE > tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the outer > statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner sql statement > and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can filter the result > set to only a specific set of records. > > When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. I > thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, discover that > PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. > > If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query window, > it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a swearword as the > alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). > > Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) AS T1 > WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Fri Mar 18 14:55:39 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 14:55:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: "I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple in my life, it makes no difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. I understand what goes in each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to 3rd normal. I have read many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood (at the time I read it) *some* of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric." -- JWC LOL. I'm sure I told this story before, but about a decade ago, when I started working for my current employer, I started going back to college. Took an MIS class (Managing Information Services). First day of the class, I was sitting in the back, here I am, 28 years old, with a bunch of people that probably couldn't order a beer. The teacher starts going into the internet, and TCP/IP. Just going over basic stuff. He then goes over a very basic description of an IP address, and asks if anyone knew why each quad of an IP address had values from only 0 to 255. I looked around, no one was answering, so I raised my hand. The professor called on me, and I said 'Because that's 8 bits, or a byte'. Wow, the class looked at me like a herd of deer mesmerized by headlights! LOL. I never studied for any of the tests, and I don't remember if there was homework or not (I would have done the homework if there was some). I always got an A on the tests. This stuff was SOOO far below my level of understanding it wasn't funny, but it was a required course that I couldn't test out of. On one of the tests the question was: What would a relational database developer refer to as a row of data? So here I am, taking this test, and employeed full time as a programmer/developer (with a relational database), and so I answered 'record' (I think it might have been row). Tuple was in the list of answers, but honestly, I hadn't read that chapter in the book. So when I got my test back, it was the only question I had wrong, so I went and asked the instructor. His response was basically 'the book answer is tuple'. I had to laugh at that, because the book also described Widnows 95 and Windows 98 as 'different Operating Systems', which the teacher pointed out in class is 'technically' incorrect. Drew The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Fri Mar 18 15:09:11 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 15:09:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BB@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> In Access 2003 if you go to Tools, Options in the Tables/Queries tab is an option for SQL Server Compatible Syntax (ANSI 92). I've never played with the setting - but maybe if you had that option turned on, your generated SQL from Access would work as is in SQL Server via ado? HTH, Rusty -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 2:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near Yep. I am generating the SQL in Access and I test the SQL in a query in Access, where it worked just fine. It is only when trying to give the SQL to an ado recordset object and have that object ask SQL Server for the data that the problem reared its ugly head. It took me a few minutes of head scratching to figure it out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 1:42 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi John -- > > According to the common usage style It would be more correct to write : > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > T1 WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but > you can often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) - and you'll be safe& > you'll reach the richness.. :) > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba > Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near > > The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. > > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I modified it to add the table name. > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. > > PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. > > The following compiles and runs in sql server > > SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests WHERE > tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the > outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner > sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can > filter the result set to only a specific set of records. > > When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. > I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, > discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. > > If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query > window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. It does give me a > swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in Access). > > Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to > > SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ) > AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 > > And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 18 15:21:15 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:21:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Access and SQL Server In-Reply-To: References: <4D6B9B88.2000405@nanaimo.ark.com> <4D6C1247.23155.172DBBD9@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <6AE34C2DB8F044CEB01B53602E59A855@XPS> <4D6C28FA.28044.17866745@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <58C61B28DF66462FBCBB5A9A7D24A43A@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D6D3129.70703@colbyconsulting.com> <9ECEDC3D0ADC406A9ACBC7658B451A2B@XPS> <4D6D4506.9010807@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6DA8D2.5030008@zyterra.com> <1D05A48E1837409A88D91535ECD6D989@XPS> <4D6E56B1.3000406@colbyconsulting.com> <82EF10BF26F94DCAA11FDE4C9359D826@XPS> <4D6E9D17.9070108@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6ECCEA.2070006@colbyconsulting.com> <4D6FF01F.3080103@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D83BEBB.2090408@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. Yep, and the strange part of that whole thread is that I have studied all that stuff, though not necessarily all of it in a classroom. I know tuple and relation but it simply isn't used anywhere in the (non-academic) world so why cling to it? All it appears to do is provide a false sense of superiority. If you happen to work at a university and need to discuss these terms on a daily basis with an 80 year old professor who learned that stuff and refuses to use modern terms, then I guess they would be relevant. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/18/2011 3:55 PM, Drew Wutka wrote: > "I am happy you like it but I have never actually uttered the word tuple > in my life, it makes no > difference to me. I get along just fine with tables, rows and fields. > I understand what goes in > each of those things. It is second nature (and trivial) to normalize to > 3rd normal. I have read > many though not all of the rest of the 16 normal forms and understood > (at the time I read it) *some* > of them. Most seemed oh so esoteric." -- JWC > > LOL. I'm sure I told this story before, but about a decade ago, when I > started working for my current employer, I started going back to > college. Took an MIS class (Managing Information Services). > > First day of the class, I was sitting in the back, here I am, 28 years > old, with a bunch of people that probably couldn't order a beer. The > teacher starts going into the internet, and TCP/IP. Just going over > basic stuff. He then goes over a very basic description of an IP > address, and asks if anyone knew why each quad of an IP address had > values from only 0 to 255. I looked around, no one was answering, so I > raised my hand. The professor called on me, and I said 'Because that's > 8 bits, or a byte'. Wow, the class looked at me like a herd of deer > mesmerized by headlights! LOL. > > I never studied for any of the tests, and I don't remember if there was > homework or not (I would have done the homework if there was some). I > always got an A on the tests. This stuff was SOOO far below my level of > understanding it wasn't funny, but it was a required course that I > couldn't test out of. On one of the tests the question was: > > What would a relational database developer refer to as a row of data? > > So here I am, taking this test, and employeed full time as a > programmer/developer (with a relational database), and so I answered > 'record' (I think it might have been row). Tuple was in the list of > answers, but honestly, I hadn't read that chapter in the book. > > So when I got my test back, it was the only question I had wrong, so I > went and asked the instructor. His response was basically 'the book > answer is tuple'. I had to laugh at that, because the book also > described Widnows 95 and Windows 98 as 'different Operating Systems', > which the teacher pointed out in class is 'technically' incorrect. > > Drew > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity > to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business > Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender > immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, > or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > From edzedz at comcast.net Fri Mar 18 18:09:30 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 16:09:30 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Message-ID: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Fri Mar 18 18:19:19 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 12:19:19 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <5614BB72A898456981BE3B79A3BF4D60@stevelaptop> Ed, As far as I am aware, this is simply not possible. You can't establish an ODBC connection from Access to Access. Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Edward Zuris Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 12:09 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. From robert at servicexp.com Fri Mar 18 18:33:58 2011 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:33:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: HTPC Command Line Parsing Problem In-Reply-To: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <000c01cbe5c4$f5f78060$e1e68120$@com> Ok, I have been fighting with this for a while now, and just can't seem to come up with a solution Enviroment: Windows Command Line Batch Process Back Ground: My WMC7 HTPC records shows to a folder, from there I have a program called WatchDirectory trigger a batch file for show processing. The batch file logic looks in a SHOWPARMS.txt text file for the show name, and returns to the batch file it's processing parameters. I have the basic framework up and running. Inside SHOWPARMS.txt Example: Glenn;True;"";"C:\VideoCaptures\GlennBeck";False;"";False;False Returns: True;"";"C:\VideoCaptures\GlennBeck";False;"";False;False Batch File Commands So Far: set SEARCHNAME=%WD_FILE_B:~0,4% :find from left to right the row that matches the first 4 characters :: Get the Show Params for /f "tokens=2-9 delims=;" %%A in ('findstr /b /i "%SEARCHNAME%" "C:\SyncFiles\Bat Files\SHOWPARMS.txt"') do ( set sQSF=%%A set sCOM=%%B set sPAT=%%C set sRAR=%%D set sUPL=%%E set sSFV=%%F set sDEL=%%G ) Problem: I need to parse the string backwards from the first "-" (I think). So if a show name is less the 4 characters the batch would still find it in the text file. So code would not only find this string using "Glen" or "Glenn" In "Glenn Beck-" or "GlennBeck-" (Which currently works) but would also need to find "V" in "V-" (currently the show would be missed due to the < 4 characters show name.) Then "-" after the show name is always there. Objective: To make the search string length variable (I think), and not based on the current limited 4 character requirement. To find the "-" after the show name and match as many characters as possible. (I think). ;) Any ideas how I can pull this off? From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 18 18:41:40 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:41:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <5614BB72A898456981BE3B79A3BF4D60@stevelaptop> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1>, <5614BB72A898456981BE3B79A3BF4D60@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <4D83EDB4.3389.6C0AAC@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Correct. Trying to do so generates a 3423 error: "You cannot use ODBC to import from, export to, or link an external Microsoft Jet or ISAM database table to your database." -- Stuart On 19 Mar 2011 at 12:19, Steve Schapel wrote: > Ed, > > As far as I am aware, this is simply not possible. You can't > establish an ODBC connection from Access to Access. > > Regards > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Edward Zuris > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 12:09 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access > > > Hello Everyone, > > It has been awhile. > > I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source > and then link tables into another Access database. > > I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, > but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for > Access 2000, or Access 2003. > > Any suggestions on how to do that ? > > Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? > > Thanks. > > Sincerely, > Ed Zuris. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 18 19:26:30 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 19:26:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <001801cbe5c1$8a2a7c00$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: <000f01cbe5cc$4e10e410$ea32ac30$@comcast.net> Instead of ODBC, can you use the IN keyword? Dim stgFullPath as string Dim stgSQL as string stgFullPath = "//Server/Folder/DataTables.mdb" stgSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblMain IN '" & stgFullPath & "'" _ & " WHERE ID = 1" I use this frequently - avoids table links between access files, and performs well. HTH! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 6:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From edzedz at comcast.net Fri Mar 18 22:43:01 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 20:43:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access In-Reply-To: <000f01cbe5cc$4e10e410$ea32ac30$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000001cbe5e7$c1434b10$5bdea8c0@edz1> Thanks. That idea works. . . -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 5:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Instead of ODBC, can you use the IN keyword? Dim stgFullPath as string Dim stgSQL as string stgFullPath = "//Server/Folder/DataTables.mdb" stgSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblMain IN '" & stgFullPath & "'" _ & " WHERE ID = 1" I use this frequently - avoids table links between access files, and performs well. HTH! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Edward Zuris Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 6:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] ODBC for Access Hello Everyone, It has been awhile. I am trying to set am Access DB as an ODBC source and then link tables into another Access database. I did something like that ages ago in Access-97, but seem to have forgotten how to do the same for Access 2000, or Access 2003. Any suggestions on how to do that ? Also is there a selection of ODBC drives out there ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri Mar 18 23:56:12 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 21:56:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near In-Reply-To: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BB@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> References: <4D8384FD.4030004@colbyconsulting.com> <4D83B27E.8060901@colbyconsulting.com> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BB@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: Trust me, you ALWAYS have to test SQL in SQL Server if you're going to use it there. At my last job, our apps ran against either SQL Server or Access back ends, so every SQL statement built in code had to be checked against both environments and we had to branch the code where the versions of SQL differed in their behavior. Charlotte Foust On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Rusty Hammond wrote: > In Access 2003 if you go to Tools, Options in the Tables/Queries tab is > an option for SQL Server Compatible Syntax (ANSI 92). ?I've never played > with the setting - but maybe if you had that option turned on, your > generated SQL from Access would work as is in SQL Server via ado? > > HTH, > > Rusty > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 2:29 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near > > Yep. ?I am generating the SQL in Access and I test the SQL in a query in > Access, where it worked just fine. ?It is only when trying to give the > SQL to an ado recordset object and have that object ask SQL Server for > the data that the problem reared its ugly head. > > It took me a few minutes of head scratching to figure it out. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/18/2011 1:42 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: >> Hi John -- >> >> According to the common usage style It would be more correct to ?write > : >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> T1 WHERE T1.PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> Commom rule: Be as explicit as possible when coding your T-SQL (but >> you can often skip 'AS' particle for brevity) ?- and you'll be safe& >> you'll reach the richness.. :) >> >> Thank you. >> >> -- >> Shamil >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: 18 ????? 2011 ?. 19:15 >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; Sqlserver-Dba >> Subject: [AccessD] ADO Recordset error near >> >> The following statement fails in SQL Server with "error near WHERE. >> >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> I modified it to add the table name. >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> WHERE tmmPersonInterests .PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> It doesn't even compile in SQL Server. >> >> PEINT_IDPE is a field in the table and is type int. >> >> The following compiles and runs in sql server >> >> SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?WHERE >> tmmPersonInterests.PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> I am trying to programmatically wrap a sql statement inside of the >> outer statement so that I can have any valid statement in the inner >> sql statement and as long as the inner statement exposes the FK, I can > >> filter the result set to only a specific set of records. >> >> When I hover over PEINT_IDPE it says that is not a valid column name. > >> I thought that SQL server would evaluate the inside statement, >> discover that PEINT_IDPE existed in tmmPersonInterests and go. >> >> If (back in access) I just cut and paste this statement into a query >> window, it evaluates and pulls a result set. ?It does give me a >> swearword as the alias for the interior sql statement (in QBE in > Access). >> >> Taking that as a clue, I changed the statement to >> >> SELECT * FROM ( SELECT tmmPersonInterests.* FROM tmmPersonInterests ?) > >> AS T1 WHERE PEINT_IDPE = 1 >> >> And it compiles and runs in SQL Server. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 19 08:24:54 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 09:24:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note Message-ID: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sat Mar 19 09:06:35 2011 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 14:06:35 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <0FD11B4C294B4099B2AE2CCC86D2369D@MINSTER> Can we have that in English? Andy -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 19 March 2011 13:25 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From robert at servicexp.com Sat Mar 19 09:26:46 2011 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:26:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000901cbe641$b09e7af0$11db70d0$@com> Not too bad, make sure you dl Titanium Backup W/Root in the marketplace .. Fantastic backup program.. ;) Now that you're rooted (s-Off), the sky's the limit on what you can do with your phone now. Have Fun.. WBR Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 09:49:32 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 07:49:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. I just upgraded my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. What a process! Charlotte On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the > bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at my house > I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not bad > considering it is over cell. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 19 09:54:22 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:54:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <000901cbe641$b09e7af0$11db70d0$@com> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <000901cbe641$b09e7af0$11db70d0$@com> Message-ID: <4D84C39E.6020109@colbyconsulting.com> Z4Mod is what I used to do the root. It is pretty cool, allowing me to root / modify / unroot very easily! I am using the free Bloat Freezer to freeze apps. It seems this makes for simpler upgrades in the future? I am still trying to discover what is really useful to freeze. Mostly I just wanted to get rid of the obvious crapware like CityID and AmazonMP3. And of course set up the tether. My problem right now is that the tether doesn't give me an encryption scheme that matches Vista so I can't lock the tether which kinda sucks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/19/2011 10:26 AM, Robert wrote: > Not too bad, make sure you dl Titanium Backup W/Root in the marketplace .. > Fantastic backup program.. ;) Now that you're rooted (s-Off), the sky's the > limit on what you can do with your phone now. > > Have Fun.. > > WBR > Robert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all the > bloatware, and downloaded > and installed a tether program. Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down > and .5 mbit up via the > tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 12:10:24 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 10:10:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note Message-ID: Hopefully Verizon doesn't follow at&t. They sent text messages and email to jailbroken iPhones that were tethering, saying that they need to add tethering to their plan. Sent from my Droid phone. On Mar 19, 2011 7:55 AM, "jwcolby" wrote: From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 19 14:50:55 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 15:50:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps Message-ID: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 19:28:38 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 17:28:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Useful to me, personally? GasBuddy, Mileage, MissingSync, DocumentsToGo, FliqCalendar and FliqNotes (sync with Outlook), Extended Controls, Expense Tracker. Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:50 PM, jwcolby wrote: > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From robert at servicexp.com Sat Mar 19 19:29:22 2011 From: robert at servicexp.com (Robert) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:29:22 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <000001cbe695$dd5a9d90$980fd8b0$@com> Google Nav. & Maps Remote Desktop AndFTP QuickOffice Astro RealCalc Elec. Wiring Pro Area & Volume ES File Explorer FeedR IMDb CadreBible ... are the programs I seem to use the most. Some others include: Dictionary Bank Of America App Flixster Calorie Counter The UnderGround Remote Media Center ..etc.. ;) WBR Robert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 21:59:33 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 19:59:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <000001cbe695$dd5a9d90$980fd8b0$@com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> <000001cbe695$dd5a9d90$980fd8b0$@com> Message-ID: I also use AT&T Navigator when I don't have my big gps with me and I use both the Amazon Kindle reader and the Nook reader on my phone. Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Robert wrote: > Google Nav. & Maps > Remote Desktop > AndFTP > QuickOffice > Astro > RealCalc > Elec. Wiring Pro > Area & Volume > ES File Explorer > FeedR > IMDb > CadreBible > > ... are the programs I seem to use the most. > > Some others include: > > Dictionary > Bank Of America App > Flixster > Calorie Counter > The UnderGround > Remote Media Center > > ..etc.. ;) > > > WBR > Robert > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 19 22:03:22 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 20:03:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, what's wrong with that??? You got to use the technology! LOL Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 10:10 AM, David McAfee wrote: > Hopefully Verizon doesn't follow at&t. They sent text messages and email to > jailbroken iPhones that were tethering, saying that they need to add > tethering to their plan. > > Sent from my Droid phone. > On Mar 19, 2011 7:55 AM, "jwcolby" wrote: > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 00:26:57 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2011 22:26:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note Message-ID: IMO it is stupid. I mean if you are paying for unlimited minutes, who cares how you use them? Sent from my Droid phone. On Mar 19, 2011 8:04 PM, "Charlotte Foust" wrote: From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun Mar 20 06:39:32 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 22:39:32 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <201103201139.p2KBdksT023637@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Dropbox. ________________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby [jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 6:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 12:20:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:20:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Message-ID: Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 12:23:36 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:23:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 12:44:14 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 10:44:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <1370177E6BEB484F824E2304AF853FED@HAL9005> Never mind. I figured it out. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:24 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sun Mar 20 12:50:13 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 20:50:13 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> Message-ID: <66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 13:14:16 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 11:14:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005> <66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> Message-ID: <926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> It's in the after update of an option frame where the user picks one of two subforms. But I got it to work. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sun Mar 20 14:49:05 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 22:49:05 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005><66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant> <926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> Message-ID: <36FB6626070E45EE8DC95FCDD76352AC@nant> Hi Rocky -- Yes, I have seen from your other message that you've solved the issue. It could have been that subform has had "Dirty = True" when you tried to change its recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 21:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source It's in the after update of an option frame where the user picks one of two subforms. But I got it to work. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sun Mar 20 16:42:11 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 14:42:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source In-Reply-To: <36FB6626070E45EE8DC95FCDD76352AC@nant> References: <3951F87C0EE94210B98EBF550017651F@HAL9005><66360A1C9CB147E89A6597BE95DA57F9@nant><926CB41E139946D5BBF3AFA8CE54BA8B@HAL9005> <36FB6626070E45EE8DC95FCDD76352AC@nant> Message-ID: <5EFBBB3C31144D259CDD77B043CD2F96@HAL9005> Shamil: I had about 4 other things wrong with that form and code - but got them all straightened out. Final code is: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = _ "Select * FROM tblProductionRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " _ & Val(Nz(Me.cboPanelDefID.Column(0))) Ans takes care of the problem of the user not selecting a record from the cboPanelDef combo box - the subform then has zero records. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 12:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- Yes, I have seen from your other message that you've solved the issue. It could have been that subform has had "Dirty = True" when you tried to change its recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 21:14 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source It's in the after update of an option frame where the user picks one of two subforms. But I got it to work. Thanks Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:50 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Hi Rocky -- When/where (within what event/object) do you call this code to change subform's recordsource? Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 20 ????? 2011 ?. 20:24 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Changed the statement to: Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.Form.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) Now I get "You canceled the previous operation" :( Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2011 10:20 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Changing Subform Record Source Dear List: Trying to change the record source on a sub-form and I can't ever remember the correct syntax. This Forms!frmRoutings!sfrmRoutingSubForm.RecordSource = "Select * FROM tblFinishingRouting " _ & "WHERE fldPanelDefID = " & Val(Me.txtPanelDefID) gives error object doesn't support this propertyor method. I know I'm close but can't get it to work. Anyone see what's wring? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun Mar 20 20:05:35 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:05:35 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Howdy It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same way the Yanks do... That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- "I rooted my droid X last night" Hmm - And then Charlottes response:- "I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. Andy - Comments please. Snigger -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. I just upgraded my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. What a process! Charlotte On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby wrote: > I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all > the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at > my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not > bad considering it is over cell. > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 20:12:26 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 18:12:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely NOT what it means here! Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone > (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same > way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung > from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >> bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From darren at activebilling.com.au Sun Mar 20 20:29:01 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:29:01 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <019901cbe767$5ca89170$15f9b450$@activebilling.com.au> Insert little boy snigger here Ok - Nothing to see here folks - nothing to see here ...move along, move along -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely NOT what it means here! Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a > phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not > the same way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my > Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here >> at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. >> Not bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Sun Mar 20 20:46:30 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:46:30 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely NOT what it means here! Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone > (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same > way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung > from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >> bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Mar 20 21:02:15 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:02:15 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> References: , <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for > you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: > > Howdy > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' > > a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not > > the same way the Yanks do... > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > Andy - Comments please. > > Snigger > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my > > Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > Charlotte > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > wrote: > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the > >> tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun Mar 20 23:43:22 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2011 21:43:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Lush as an adjective means the same thing here. Lush used as a noun is what you're thinking of. Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather unnerving. ?and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... ?Another one is "Lush". ?Lush to may Aussies is short for Lusicous or delicious. ?Probably not such a good pick up line to approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush tonight. ?aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > Here, now! ?This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! ?I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: >> Howdy >> It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone >> (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. >> Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same >> way the Yanks do... >> >> That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- >> ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" >> Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- >> ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" >> Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. >> Andy - Comments please. >> Snigger >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >> Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note >> >> I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung >> from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! >> >> Charlotte >> >> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby >> wrote: >>> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >>> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >>> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >>> bad considering it is over cell. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon Mar 21 00:13:32 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:13:32 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103210513.p2L5Dd00017041@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ hahaha, I am not sure how successful I would be trying to explain the semantics of that to the tipsy (and now offended) 'woman at the bar' when she gives me a filthy look in response. :) However, I will keep that in mind just in case! cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 3:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note Lush as an adjective means the same thing here. Lush used as a noun is what you're thinking of. Charlotte Foust On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:46 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather unnerving. ?and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... ?Another one is "Lush". ?Lush to may Aussies is short for Lusicous or delicious. ?Probably not such a good pick up line to approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush tonight. ?aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > Here, now! ?This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! ?I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: >> Howdy >> It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone >> (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. >> Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same >> way the Yanks do... >> >> That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- >> ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" >> Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- >> ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" >> Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. >> Andy - Comments please. >> Snigger >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >> Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note >> >> I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my Samsung >> from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! >> >> Charlotte >> >> On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby >> wrote: >>> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >>> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. ?Here at >>> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >>> bad considering it is over cell. >>> >>> -- >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From darren at activebilling.com.au Mon Mar 21 00:18:38 2011 From: darren at activebilling.com.au (Darren - Active Billing) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:18:38 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <201103210146.p2L1kcC2020184@databaseadvisors.com> <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <020e01cbe787$70afc600$520f5200$@activebilling.com.au> Gold - I laughed out loud at this one :-) (Still don't know what the U.S. version of rooting a phone means - I really do want to know) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting for > you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these things. > > cheers > Darryl. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I know > perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's definitely > NOT what it means here! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > wrote: > > Howdy > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' > > a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not > > the same way the Yanks do... > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > Andy - Comments please. > > Snigger > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded my > > Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > Charlotte > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > wrote: > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the > >> tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > >> > >> -- > >> John W. Colby > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > >> -- > >> AccessD mailing list > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >> > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Mar 21 00:27:18 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 15:27:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <020e01cbe787$70afc600$520f5200$@activebilling.com.au> References: , <4D86B1A7.2429.B397F18@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <020e01cbe787$70afc600$520f5200$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4D86E1B6.10271.61E090@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/04/15/rooting-explained-top-5-benefits-of-rooting-your- android-phone/ First, for the newbies, let me clarify what rooting is. Getting root or rooting your phone is the process of modifying the operating system on your device to grant you complete control over it. This means you can overcome limitations that the carriers and manufacturers put on your phone, extend system functionality, and even upgrade it to a custom flavor of Android. The name root comes from the Linux operating system world, where the most privileged user on the system (otherwise known as Administrator on Windows) is called root. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 16:18, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Gold - I laughed out loud at this one :-) > (Still don't know what the U.S. version of rooting a phone means - I > really do want to know) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 1:02 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. > > -- > Stuart > > On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the > > bottom of this message. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting > > for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these > > things. > > > > cheers > > Darryl. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I > > know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's > > definitely NOT what it means here! > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > > wrote: > > > Howdy > > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as > > > 'rooting' a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in > > > Australia. Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. > > > Perhaps not the same way the Yanks do... > > > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > > Andy - Comments please. > > > Snigger > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access > > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > > > On a lighter note > > > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded > > > my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > > > Charlotte > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > > wrote: > > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via > > >> the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> John W. Colby > > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by > > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon Mar 21 00:36:56 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 16:36:56 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <4D86E1B6.10271.61E090@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201103210537.p2L5b3oU030569@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ >From memory the term root comes from the concept of an (upside down) tree (directory tree to be precise). Where the base of all things is the root. Thus "Root Directory" being the master access directory etc. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 4:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/04/15/rooting-explained-top-5-benefits-of-rooting-your- android-phone/ First, for the newbies, let me clarify what rooting is. Getting root or rooting your phone is the process of modifying the operating system on your device to grant you complete control over it. This means you can overcome limitations that the carriers and manufacturers put on your phone, extend system functionality, and even upgrade it to a custom flavor of Android. The name root comes from the Linux operating system world, where the most privileged user on the system (otherwise known as Administrator on Windows) is called root. -- Stuart On 21 Mar 2011 at 16:18, Darren - Active Billing wrote: > Gold - I laughed out loud at this one :-) > (Still don't know what the U.S. version of rooting a phone means - I > really do want to know) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 1:02 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > note > > My phone has been rooted ever since I dropped it in the dunny. > > -- > Stuart > > On 21 Mar 2011 at 12:46, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the > > bottom of this message. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > > > > > yes, As an Aussie, I have always found the line "We'll be rooting > > for you" (as in "we'll be supporting / cheering for you") rather > > unnerving. and it brings some unsavoury images to mind! > > > > oh well... Another one is "Lush". Lush to may Aussies is short for > > Lusicous or delicious. Probably not such a good pick up line to > > approach a pretty girl in a US bar and say she is looking lush > > tonight. aaah, we are so similar, yet so different with these > > things. > > > > cheers > > Darryl. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust Sent: Monday, 21 March 2011 12:12 PM To: Access Developers > > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter > > note > > > > Here, now! This is a family-friendly list, so keep it clean!! I > > know perfectly well what rooting means in Australia, but that's > > definitely NOT what it means here! > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > On Sun, Mar 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM, Darren - Active Billing > > wrote: > > > Howdy > > > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as > > > 'rooting' a phone (or rooting anything for that matter) in > > > Australia. Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. > > > Perhaps not the same way the Yanks do... > > > > > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I rooted my droid X last night" > > > Hmm ?- And then Charlottes response:- > > > ? ? ? ?"I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > > > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > > > Andy - Comments please. > > > Snigger > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Charlotte Foust Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM To: Access > > > Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] > > > On a lighter note > > > > > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. ?I just upgraded > > > my Samsung from Eclair to Froyo last night. ?What a process! > > > > > > Charlotte > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > > > wrote: > > >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze > > >> all the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. > > >> ?Here at my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via > > >> the tether. Not bad considering it is over cell. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> John W. Colby > > >> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >> -- > > >> AccessD mailing list > > >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by > > persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > __ _________________ > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Mon Mar 21 07:54:04 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:54:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root my phone to use it. Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, home computer - have access to my notes anywhere -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From davidmcafee at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 09:01:22 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 07:01:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: I was watching a home gardening show this weekend and one person tells the other "tug on it a little" or "give me a little tug". The host, who is Australian, said "that would mean something completely different in Australia " :) Sent from my Droid phone. On Mar 20, 2011 6:07 PM, "Darren - Active Billing" < darren at activebilling.com.au> wrote: > Howdy > It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a phone > (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. > Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the same > way the Yanks do... > > That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- > "I rooted my droid X last night" > Hmm - And then Charlottes response:- > "I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" > Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. > Andy - Comments please. > Snigger > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Sunday, 20 March 2011 1:50 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] On a lighter note > > I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine. I just upgraded my Samsung > from Eclair to Froyo last night. What a process! > > Charlotte > > On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 6:24 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> I rooted my droid X last night, bought a "freezer" program, froze all >> the bloatware, and downloaded and installed a tether program. Here at >> my house I get about 1.25 mbit down and .5 mbit up via the tether. Not >> bad considering it is over cell. >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Robert at WeBeDb.com Mon Mar 21 10:30:43 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:30:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <443C0DB8-9EF4-47E2-A9BF-758E2CD9BDDD@holly.arvixe.com> No, I do not bind to a pass through except in the case of a combobox or report. If you bind to a pass through, it is not editable. So, I only bind to them to things that I would not be editing. I use views for all my binding. Having also been and am a SQL Server DBA, I do not allow direct access to the SQL tables. At 07:04 AM 3/18/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:04:03 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D834A33.1030607 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Robert, > >Are you using bound forms? > >Does anyone know how to compare binding to pass through query as >opposed to binding to ADO recordset? > >It seems that binding to a pass-through would leave me in DAO which >my framework supports already. >Binding to an ADO recordset leaves me in ADO. It is totally unclear >to me what goes on in either >case "behind the scenes" pulling records from SQL Server, updating >the records, updating back to SQL >Server and so forth. In a few months or so I will have a better >idea of what actually happens but >it is tough to make design decisions without already knowing this stuff. From Robert at WeBeDb.com Mon Mar 21 10:51:48 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:51:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There is a property in the design view, ODBC Connect String. My local development copy looks something like this: ODBC;DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=tg9078;UID=sa;PWD=monkey;DATABASE=WWCI_Master_Data Once that is filled in, you should not get any more hits asking you for that info. At 09:27 AM 3/19/2011, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D834D8C.4040806 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Robert, > >What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? > >I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made >it pass-through by changing the >sql specific to pass through. It immediately asked me for a dsn, >and when I gave it one it asked me >for the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / >user name / password any time I >do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. > >Am I missing something? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon Mar 21 11:13:35 2011 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jurgen Welz) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 10:13:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PPT to Video In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com>, , <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au>, Message-ID: I've been searching for a decent PowerPoint to video converter so as to burn some DVDs of some PowerPoint marketing material. So far the free stuff yeilds crappy results and the trial stuff isn't much better. Does anyone have a suggestion of something free or inexpensive that yeilds high quality results? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From kismert at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 11:18:30 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:18:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime Message-ID: John, This got me curious about how I do this, so I did some rooting around. First, I find the DSN-less ODBC connect string for my SQL Server connection. My example: ODBC;Driver={SQL Server};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; For SQL Server 2008, you will need to install the SQL Server Native Client. For this, the connect string would be: ODBC;Driver={SQL Server Native Client 10.0};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; The native client will connect to all SQL Server instances from version 2000 on up. You can easily connect Access 2000 to SQL Server 2008 in this manner. Note: for TableDefs, Access conveniently mangles the connect string, so I keep the correct one in a VBA constant. Then I just make a SQL Pass-Through query, and paste the connect string in the ODBC Connect Str property. Put in your SQL, and save. My experience is that the connect string is stable, and doesn't need to be changed, even when you modify the query's SQL. You can also make a table that is direct-linked to SQL server with the same ODBC connect string. This may be easier in later versions of Access, but in 2000, you need code. The following requires a reference to ADOX (ADO Ext. 2.8 for DDL and Security): ' Adds a linked External table ' ' Parameters: ' sProviderString - ADO Provider string (can be ODBC Connect string) ' sSourceTbl - Source table name (provider) ' sLinkTblName - Link table name (local) ' bSavePassword - True: Set "Cache Link Name/Password" property ' ' Adapted from Visual Basic Programmer's Guide: Data Access Components ' http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/office/office2000/proddocs/opg/part3/ch14.mspx ' Public Sub CreateLinkedExternalTable(sProviderString As String, _ sSourceTbl As String, _ sLinkTblName As String, _ Optional bSavePassword As Boolean = False) Dim rCatalog As ADOX.Catalog Dim rTable As ADOX.Table On Error GoTo HandleErr ' Get current Catalog Set rCatalog = CurrentCatalog Set rTable = New ADOX.Table With rTable ' Name the new Table and set its ParentCatalog property to the ' open Catalog to allow access to the Properties collection. .Name = sLinkTblName Set .ParentCatalog = rCatalog ' Set the properties to create the link. .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Create Link") = True .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Link Provider String") = sProviderString .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Remote Table Name") = sSourceTbl If bSavePassword Then .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Cache Link Name/Password") = True End If End With ' Append the table to the Tables collection. rCatalog.Tables.Append rTable Set rCatalog = Nothing Exit Sub HandleErr: Err.Raise Err.Number, "CreateLinkedExternalTable" & VbCrLf & Err.Description End Sub With this, you can write normal, non-pass-through select queries against the table, and use it in DAO code with it just like any other TableDef. I wouldn't go crazy with multi-ODBC-table joins, though. Alas, you can't write normal update, insert or delete queries against an ODBC tabledef, as the underlying recordset is not updateable. For that, you will need the aforementioned ODBC Pass-through queries, and use some method for storing the base SQL like Robert's. You can call stored procedures this way, but for that, I would recommend using ADO, setting the parameters in code, and calling the procedure directly. -Ken ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: jwcolby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving < > accessd at databaseadvisors.com> > Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime > Robert, > > What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? > > I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it > pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It immediately > asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for the user name / > password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any > time I do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. > > Am I missing something? > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 11:52:53 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:52:53 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D878265.9020102@colbyconsulting.com> Thanks Ken. I am slowly getting this sorted. I will try and write up what I am doing once I get it all figured out. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 12:18 PM, Kenneth Ismert wrote: > John, > > This got me curious about how I do this, so I did some rooting around. > > First, I find the DSN-less ODBC connect string for my SQL Server connection. > My example: > > ODBC;Driver={SQL > Server};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; > > For SQL Server 2008, you will need to install the SQL Server Native Client. > For this, the connect string would be: > > ODBC;Driver={SQL Server Native Client > 10.0};Server=MyServer;Database=MyDb;Uid=username;Pwd=password; > > The native client will connect to all SQL Server instances from version 2000 > on up. You can easily connect Access 2000 to SQL Server 2008 in this manner. > > Note: for TableDefs, Access conveniently mangles the connect string, so I > keep the correct one in a VBA constant. > > Then I just make a SQL Pass-Through query, and paste the connect string in > the ODBC Connect Str property. Put in your SQL, and save. > > My experience is that the connect string is stable, and doesn't need to be > changed, even when you modify the query's SQL. > > You can also make a table that is direct-linked to SQL server with the same > ODBC connect string. This may be easier in later versions of Access, but in > 2000, you need code. The following requires a reference to ADOX (ADO Ext. > 2.8 for DDL and Security): > > ' Adds a linked External table > ' > ' Parameters: > ' sProviderString - ADO Provider string (can be ODBC Connect string) > ' sSourceTbl - Source table name (provider) > ' sLinkTblName - Link table name (local) > ' bSavePassword - True: Set "Cache Link Name/Password" property > ' > ' Adapted from Visual Basic Programmer's Guide: Data Access Components > ' > http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/office/office2000/proddocs/opg/part3/ch14.mspx > ' > Public Sub CreateLinkedExternalTable(sProviderString As String, _ > sSourceTbl As String, _ > sLinkTblName As String, _ > Optional bSavePassword As Boolean = False) > > Dim rCatalog As ADOX.Catalog > Dim rTable As ADOX.Table > > On Error GoTo HandleErr > > ' Get current Catalog > Set rCatalog = CurrentCatalog > > Set rTable = New ADOX.Table > With rTable > ' Name the new Table and set its ParentCatalog property to the > ' open Catalog to allow access to the Properties collection. > .Name = sLinkTblName > Set .ParentCatalog = rCatalog > ' Set the properties to create the link. > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Create Link") = True > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Link Provider String") = sProviderString > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Remote Table Name") = sSourceTbl > If bSavePassword Then > .Properties("Jet OLEDB:Cache Link Name/Password") = True > End If > End With > > ' Append the table to the Tables collection. > rCatalog.Tables.Append rTable > Set rCatalog = Nothing > > Exit Sub > > HandleErr: > Err.Raise Err.Number, "CreateLinkedExternalTable"& VbCrLf& > Err.Description > End Sub > > With this, you can write normal, non-pass-through select queries against the > table, and use it in DAO code with it just like any other TableDef. I > wouldn't go crazy with multi-ODBC-table joins, though. > > Alas, you can't write normal update, insert or delete queries against an > ODBC tabledef, as the underlying recordset is not updateable. > > For that, you will need the aforementioned ODBC Pass-through queries, and > use some method for storing the base SQL like Robert's. > > You can call stored procedures this way, but for that, I would recommend > using ADO, setting the parameters in code, and calling the procedure > directly. > > -Ken > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving< >> accessd at databaseadvisors.com> >> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Robert, >> >> What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? >> >> I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it >> pass-through by changing the sql specific to pass through. It immediately >> asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me for the user name / >> password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any >> time I do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. >> >> Am I missing something? >> >> From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 11:55:24 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:55:24 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D8782FC.1000300@colbyconsulting.com> I tried using that (a week or so ago) and it failed, but I am trying to connect to an IP address over Hamachi and that failed. Just changing the server name from an English name to an IP address failed. OTOH I could open a recordset using the IP address and that worked. There is more to this than meets the eye. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 11:51 AM, Robert wrote: > There is a property in the design view, ODBC Connect String. > > My local development copy looks something like this: > ODBC;DRIVER=SQL Server;SERVER=tg9078;UID=sa;PWD=monkey;DATABASE=WWCI_Master_Data > > Once that is filled in, you should not get any more hits asking you for that info. > > At 09:27 AM 3/19/2011, you wrote: >> Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2011 08:18:20 -0400 >> From: jwcolby >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >> Message-ID: <4D834D8C.4040806 at colbyconsulting.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Robert, >> >> What specific things have to be done to use the pass-through query? >> >> I took a regular query using a table linked to SQL Server and made it pass-through by changing the >> sql specific to pass through. It immediately asked me for a dsn, and when I gave it one it asked me >> for the user name / password. But it keeps asking me for the dsn / user name / password any time I >> do anything with that query or the form that is bound to that query. >> >> Am I missing something? >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 12:53:16 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 13:53:16 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] On a lighter note In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com> <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au> Message-ID: <4D87908C.80806@colbyconsulting.com> Them Aussies .... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 10:01 AM, David McAfee wrote: > I was watching a home gardening show this weekend and one person tells the > other "tug on it a little" or "give me a little tug". > > The host, who is Australian, said "that would mean something completely > different in Australia " > > :) > > Sent from my Droid phone. > On Mar 20, 2011 6:07 PM, "Darren - Active Billing"< > darren at activebilling.com.au> wrote: >> Howdy >> It seems 'Rooting' a phone in the U.S. is not the same as 'rooting' a > phone >> (or rooting anything for that matter) in Australia. >> Australians are very fond of rooting things by the way. Perhaps not the > same >> way the Yanks do... >> >> That first line cracks me up each time I read it:- >> "I rooted my droid X last night" >> Hmm - And then Charlottes response:- >> "I'm still trying to figure out how to root mine" >> Ahhh - Cultural divides - love 'em. >> Andy - Comments please. >> Snigger >> >> From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon Mar 21 16:36:07 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 14:36:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: My phone didn't handle tethering until Android 2.2. That's one of the features previously unavailable for me. I have Evernote, but I confess, I've never used it. I used OneNote when I had a Windows phone and kind of miss that functionality. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Rusty Hammond wrote: > pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root > my phone to use it. > > Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, > home computer - have access to my notes anywhere > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review > by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 21 22:20:32 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 23:20:32 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com> <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: <4D881580.9000300@colbyconsulting.com> I am now able to use (barely) PDANet. It connects but is very slow, about 125 kbit up and oddly, about 225K down. I can't ping any ip number directly but I can ping google.com though the response is slow. I am able to browse things like newegg but it is just very slow. But it does work. I had to disable my other network interfaces though. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/21/2011 5:36 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > My phone didn't handle tethering until Android 2.2. That's one of the > features previously unavailable for me. I have Evernote, but I > confess, I've never used it. I used OneNote when I had a Windows > phone and kind of miss that functionality. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Rusty Hammond wrote: >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root >> my phone to use it. >> >> Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, >> home computer - have access to my notes anywhere >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby >> Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA >> Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps >> >> What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? >> >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> ********************************************************************** >> WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, >> scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. >> corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review >> by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. >> ********************************************************************** >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Tue Mar 22 08:04:38 2011 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (Rusty Hammond) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 08:04:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <4D85091F.5060807@colbyconsulting.com><49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0BD@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> Message-ID: <49A286ABF515E94A8505CD14DEB721700DCFE0C1@CPIEMAIL-EVS1.CPIQPC.NET> I missed some of the features in OneNote when I first started with Evernote, but the ability to get to the notes from whatever device I'm using makes up for it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 4:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps My phone didn't handle tethering until Android 2.2. That's one of the features previously unavailable for me. I have Evernote, but I confess, I've never used it. I used OneNote when I had a Windows phone and kind of miss that functionality. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 5:54 AM, Rusty Hammond wrote: > pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to > root my phone to use it. > > Evernote - Have it on my phone, my work supplied Ipad, work computer, > home computer - have access to my notes anywhere > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 2:51 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving; VBA > Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > What are the most useful apps you run on your droid? > > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ********************************************************************** > WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, > scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. > corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or > review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. > ********************************************************************** > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ********************************************************************** WARNING: All e-mail sent to and from this address will be received, scanned or otherwise recorded by the CPI Qualified Plan Consultants, Inc. corporate e-mail system and is subject to archival, monitoring or review by, and/or disclosure to, someone other than the recipient. ********************************************************************** From rlister at actuarial-files.com Tue Mar 22 10:08:33 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:08:33 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Message-ID: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com Tue Mar 22 10:13:09 2011 From: Chester_Kaup at kindermorgan.com (Kaup, Chester) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:13:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197B709B04@houex1.kindermorgan.com> Not very good but it can be done in ms paint. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 22 10:29:41 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 08:29:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 Message-ID: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all of my customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development from there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing development and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more back ups - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. TIA Rocky From fuller.artful at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 10:44:21 2011 From: fuller.artful at gmail.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:44:21 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: There's a freebie called IconThief that can open Exes and DLLs and grab their iconic contents, saving them to a file. c.f. http://hem.passagen.se/kajetan/thief.html. HTH, Arthur On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create > icon > files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 10:50:52 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:50:52 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet -- very selective business for now. Susan H. > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all of > my > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development from > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing development > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more back > ups > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > Didn't see any on the web site. > > TIA > > Rocky From jengross at gte.net Tue Mar 22 12:02:52 2011 From: jengross at gte.net (Jennifer Gross) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:02:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed - question for Lambert In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003f01cbe8b2$fba023f0$1201a8c0@Schroeder> Hi Lambert, Would you share your code for opening and keeping open this recordset. I have always shied away from global variables, but it seems that this would need one to keep it open. I would like to see how you do it so that I know I am on the right track. Thanks, Jennifer Gross -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed I just open a recordset on a table in the back end (as it happens a dedicated dummy table that is not used for anything else) in a Front End application form that opens hidden when the application starts up. That form's main purpose in life is to check if any user is not doing anything for n minutes, and if so it automatically shuts the database down. In the Close event of the form the recordset object is closed. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed That sounds more elegant than the code I found. Would you mind sharing the code? Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed Persistent connection means that you open one recordset to each BE and *hold it open*. What this does for you is gets the lock used to open the BE and holds it open. It is that first "connect to the BE file" lock that takes the longest and can be quite time consuming (5-10 seconds) if there are dozens of users in the BE. I have written code which opens a recordset and stores a pointer to the open recordset in a list. I actually use about a half dozen BEs at one client so I have a half dozen recordsets open and held open. I went so far as to create a tblHoldOpen with zero records in it, one tblHoldOpen in each BE. I then open a recordset SELECT * FROM tblHoldOpenXYZ. These are LINKED to tblHoldopen in BE XYZ. So i open each tblHoldOpen in each BE and then throw a pointer to that recordset into a collection where it stays open until the FE closes. Voila, persistent connections. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 2/10/2011 10:01 AM, jm.hwsn wrote: > Good points Jim, thanks. > I have turned off the sub-datasheets... I usually do that regardless > of the version. > I don't have any control over the servers, but I can ask them to make > some changes. > I never thought about the virus scan... I'll check into that. > Thanks, > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:52 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed > > Jim, > > The exclusive point is in regards to the FE in a split design, which > each user should have their own copy of, so opening exclusive would be > appropriate. > > Some other items: > > 1. Make sure the new ACE DB's are not being virus scanned. Since the > extension has changed, anti-virus sometimes kicks in. > > 2. Turn off the sub datasheets feature on all tables (FE and BE). Not > specific to A2007, but often overlooked. > > 3. Turning off OPLOCKs on the server, but that impacts all apps and > again, this applies to all versions (not A2007 specifically). > > 4. Often, A2007 is used in conjunction with a new server like 2008. > It appears that the SMB 2.0 specification is giving some apps > headaches, although this is not fully clear yet. Some report the app > works better when the server is forced to use SMB 1.0 protocol, others > 2.0, so your mileage may vary. > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 08:58 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Access 2007 FE/BE speed > > Access 2007 is inherently slow on a network configured using FE/BE scenario. > > I have scoured several websites and spent a lot of hours, to see if > A2007 can be modified to speed it up. > > Several "tips" were obscure on the sites and might only be mentioned > in passing. > > Here is what I've found: > > 1) ensure there is a persistent connection to the BE. Code can be > found on the FMS, Inc. site. > > 2) Ensure the BE location is in a "Trusted Location" in the FE. > > 3) Change record-level locking. I set the following: > > OLE/DDE timeout: 30 > > Refresh interval: 30 > > Number of update retries: 2 > > ODBC refresh interval: 120 > > Update retry interval: 250 > > 4) Turn off unused user interface features such as: Show animations > and Show Smart Tags on Datasheets > > > > In my somewhat limited test, my FE runs almost as fast as an > integrated file. I know it's running little slower, but I can barely > see the difference > - I can live with it. The biggest improvement came when I did 2 and 3 > above. I still haven't done or tested number 1 above. > > > > Other items that are recommended are: > > change the default open mode: Exclusive > > default record locking: Edited Record. > > However, I don't think these would work with a shared BE. I don't > think there is a way to make these different for two separate files. > > > > Do you have any other ideas or words of wisdom or comments? > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jengross at gte.net Tue Mar 22 12:02:52 2011 From: jengross at gte.net (Jennifer Gross) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:02:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004001cbe8b2$fc01f300$1201a8c0@Schroeder> If you decide not to build your own there are several websites out there with free icons, like http://www.iconarchive.com/ Jennifer Gross -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Icon Files There's a freebie called IconThief that can open Exes and DLLs and grab their iconic contents, saving them to a file. c.f. http://hem.passagen.se/kajetan/thief.html. HTH, Arthur On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create > icon > files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Robert at WeBeDb.com Tue Mar 22 11:06:09 2011 From: Robert at WeBeDb.com (Robert) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:06:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: John, If you are using the IP address, you might try adding a comma and 1433 at the end of the IP address. That is the port SQL Server. listens on by default. Change the 1433 to the port if you have changed the default. We found on some connections that we needed to do that before it would connect properly. We also saw that when using the name for the server on some connections. There was no real consistency to it. Robert At 10:29 AM 3/22/2011, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 12:55:24 -0400 >From: jwcolby >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Harnessing SQL Server with runtime >Message-ID: <4D8782FC.1000300 at colbyconsulting.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >I tried using that (a week or so ago) and it failed, but I am trying >to connect to an IP address >over Hamachi and that failed. Just changing the server name from an >English name to an IP address >failed. OTOH I could open a recordset using the IP address and that worked. > >There is more to this than meets the eye. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Mar 22 12:11:44 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:11:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access replication Message-ID: <000501cbe8b4$390ea710$5bdea8c0@edz1> Can't anyone please direct me to a simple example of using Access replication ? I am using MsAccess 2000 and 2003. Also isn't there some kind of stripped down version of MSFT's SQL server for operations on the desk top ? Where would find that to work on W2K ? Thanks. Sincerely, Ed Zuris. From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 11:16:56 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:16:56 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Access replication In-Reply-To: <000501cbe8b4$390ea710$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <000501cbe8b4$390ea710$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: Replication isn't simple, but it doesn't need to be overly complicated. What are you trying to achieve with it? Charlotte Foust On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > ?Can't anyone please direct me to a simple > ?example of using Access replication ? > > ?I am using MsAccess 2000 and 2003. > > ?Also isn't there some kind of stripped > ?down version of MSFT's SQL server for > ?operations on the desk top ? > > ?Where would find that to work on W2K ? > > ?Thanks. > > ?Sincerely, > ?Ed Zuris. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 22 11:18:01 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:18:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> Yeah still beta I guess from the web site. Just got wind of it so I'm curious. If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid of that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from wherever. Just a romantic notion. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet -- very selective business for now. Susan H. > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all > of my customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > development from there? What about the lag time of manipulating an > app, doing development and testing, on a remote server? It would be > convenient - no more back ups > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > Didn't see any on the web site. > > TIA > > Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 11:22:19 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:22:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: Hi Ralf: For taking a larger picture and rendering it down into an icon size there is a free generator app online: http://www.htmlkit.com/services/favicon/ It creates in a couple of sizes and formats. (An initial strong simple designs work best) I am assuming you already have a graphic editor to either create or edit the original image. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 11:25:18 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:25:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> Message-ID: <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> Absolutely true. I think you could make that happen now, but I don't understand all the logistics. Some publishers would like me to cover it, but nobody can get in the beta! Right now, you have to be a really big company with lots of users. Susan H. > Yeah still beta I guess from the web site. Just got wind of it so I'm > curious. If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid of > that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from wherever. > Just a romantic notion. > > R From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 11:31:27 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:31:27 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Absolutely true. I think you could make that happen now, but I don't understand all the logistics. Some publishers would like me to cover it, but nobody can get in the beta! Right now, you have to be a really big company with lots of users. Susan H. > Yeah still beta I guess from the web site. Just got wind of it so I'm > curious. If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid of > that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from wherever. > Just a romantic notion. > > R -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Tue Mar 22 11:31:59 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 11:31:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: Here is an Icon editor I use. You can edit other Icons with it. Cost $20 US but there is a free shareware trial. I've also used Snagit to get a picture of an Icon I wanted to make and pasted to it. http://www.iconedit2.com/ Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 11:41:20 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:41:20 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005><003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, but not this time. I signed up months ago... Susan H. > There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 11:57:02 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 09:57:02 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, but not this time. I signed up months ago... Susan H. > There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rlister at actuarial-files.com Tue Mar 22 11:59:57 2011 From: rlister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 12:59:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <001801cbe8b2$94578ee0$bd06aca0$@com> A huge thank you to you all for helping me with my icon stuff. Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia De: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] En nombre de Steve Turner Enviado el: Martes, 22 de Marzo de 2011 12:32 p.m. Para: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Asunto: Re: [AccessD] Icon Files Here is an Icon editor I use. You can edit other Icons with it. Cost $20 US but there is a free shareware trial. I've also used Snagit to get a picture of an Icon I wanted to make and pasted to it. http://www.iconedit2.com/ Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So? do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? Saludos Actuary Ralf Lister La Paz, Bolivia Registrado en ASFI No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 NIT: 1016725022 Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 rlister at actuarial-files.com www.actuarial-files.com Environment -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ________________________________________ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3522 - Release Date: 03/22/11 From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 12:06:39 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:06:39 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005><003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins><317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> Bah... I'm absolutely nobody -- they've never even heard of me. Now, I am surprised that they're not letting the major publishers in yet -- at least, none that I work with. Far as I know, no individuals are in the beta -- well, probably the MVPs, folks like that. Susan H. > If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? > > Jim > > In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, > but not this time. > > I signed up months ago... > > Susan H. > > >> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 12:09:36 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:09:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: Sounds like something that would work for Colby's current project. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 8:29 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all of my > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development from > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing development > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more back ups > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > Didn't see any on the web site. > > TIA > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 22 12:51:04 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 10:51:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Susan: Don't we have a few MVP folks in our midst? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Bah... I'm absolutely nobody -- they've never even heard of me. Now, I am surprised that they're not letting the major publishers in yet -- at least, none that I work with. Far as I know, no individuals are in the beta -- well, probably the MVPs, folks like that. Susan H. > If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? > > Jim > > In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, > but not this time. > > I signed up months ago... > > Susan H. > > >> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 13:49:36 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 13:49:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: My Microsoft Partner status - part of the Action Pack Subscription - let me ask to be part of the Beta. But it was sure to tell me that NOT EVERYONE WILL GET A SPOT. GK On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Susan: > > Don't we have a few MVP folks in our midst? > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 10:07 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Bah... I'm absolutely nobody -- they've never even heard of me. Now, I am > surprised that they're not letting the major publishers in yet -- at least, > none that I work with. Far as I know, no individuals are in the beta -- > well, probably the MVPs, folks like that. > > > Susan H. > > >> If there not allowing you in, what chance do they rest of us have? >> >> Jim >> >> In the past, technical publishers are let into the beta program early on, >> but not this time. >> >> I signed up months ago... >> >> Susan H. >> >> >>> There is the DBA 'company' that has a number of users? > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 14:04:58 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 15:04:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005><003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins><317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com><98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins><0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins><822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <13B3D772D7BE4FFE9C4A7BCFCA898FE8@SusanHarkins> Did you apply? Susan H. > My Microsoft Partner status - part of the Action Pack Subscription - > let me ask to be part of the Beta. But it was sure to tell me that NOT > EVERYONE WILL GET A SPOT. From garykjos at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 14:35:14 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 14:35:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <13B3D772D7BE4FFE9C4A7BCFCA898FE8@SusanHarkins> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> <003A013831794D3FBD42B0E83A972440@SusanHarkins> <317B0B3B7311406FA2E3B0C66DDF6EDA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <98F1ED3519024AF989C498CA9255DED7@SusanHarkins> <0FD3BC9341354430ADBE5A49476C2702@SusanHarkins> <822F0B0AAF0E43CC98C486DB93CAFEF6@creativesystemdesigns.com> <13B3D772D7BE4FFE9C4A7BCFCA898FE8@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: I did ask to be part of the beta. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Susan Harkins wrote: > Did you apply? > Susan H. > >> My Microsoft Partner status - part of the Action Pack Subscription - >> let me ask to be part of the Beta. But it was sure to tell me that NOT >> EVERYONE WILL GET A SPOT. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 22 14:54:07 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 05:54:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <4D88FE5F.25610.8A1D989@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Use your favourite graphics program to create it in any multiple of 16x16 pixels and then use Irfanview to resize it and convert it to .ico. -- Stuart On 22 Mar 2011 at 11:08, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you > create icon files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 22 14:57:52 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 05:57:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, , <90384B957E63468B8BC26068BF60E532@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D88FF40.17779.8A5465F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You still need a good internet connection for it. If you are moving around and don't know what sort of internet connection you will be using next week, you would be better of using and carrying around a development laptop (which is what I do). On 22 Mar 2011 at 9:18, Rocky Smolin wrote: > If it works the way I think, in a few years (once we get rid > of that kid), Pundit and I could hit the road and I could work from > wherever. Just a romantic notion. > > R > From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 22 16:44:15 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:44:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] test Message-ID: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> John B -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 22 16:51:37 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 07:51:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <4D8919E9.31595.90D6BEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> IMNSHO, all such advertisements on emails passed through filtering products turn the products themselves into spam engines. They are definitely trying to sell their product and I did not ask to receive their advertising. I would not use them on principle. -- Stuart On 22 Mar 2011 at 16:44, John Bartow wrote: > John B > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > From edzedz at comcast.net Tue Mar 22 17:06:21 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (edzedz at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 22:06:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I have been having trouble replying to an email. What is going on ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "DBA-Access" Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:44:15 PM Subject: [AccessD] test John B -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 22 17:21:38 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:21:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <4D8919E9.31595.90D6BEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> <4D8919E9.31595.90D6BEB@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <00bb01cbe8df$836b4ef0$8a41ecd0$@winhaven.net> Yeah, sorry about that. I keep manually turning off the add-in because I can't find my reg. # for it. But I forgot this time. The product works good where needed but their advertising is annoying if you don't pay for it. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] test IMNSHO, all such advertisements on emails passed through filtering products turn the products themselves into spam engines. They are definitely trying to sell their product and I did not ask to receive their advertising. I would not use them on principle. -- Stuart From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 22 17:21:38 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:21:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <00bf01cbe8df$84909510$8db1bf30$@winhaven.net> I'm not sure yet. John Colby emailed me off line so I went in to see what was happening and everything seemed to check out OK. I'm cc-ing the List master on this. I guess he'll have to do his magic. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of edzedz at comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] test I have been having trouble replying to an email. What is going on ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "DBA-Access" Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:44:15 PM Subject: [AccessD] test John B -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kismert at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 18:12:43 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 18:12:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Message-ID: Two programs I use: IcoFX: http://icofx.ro/ Free donation-ware Supports Windows 7, Macintosh, and Web PNG-style icons, with alpha-blended transparency. This one is very easy to use, and up-to-date. Inkscape http://inkscape.org/ Open source GNU GPLv2 SVG vector editor. Version 0.48.1 is a major step forward, and supports several modes for creating Icon-style graphics. This program is much more challenging to use, but it can produce first rate icon graphics. Vector graphics are inherently scalable, so it is simple to produce all icon sizes from a single drawing. Inkscape exports to png bitmap, and converts to vector formats like xaml, eps, pdf, emf, and others. -Ken -----Original Message----- > Ralf Lister: > > Hello, > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create > icon > files? > From kathryn at bassett.net Tue Mar 22 18:30:09 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:30:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <006501cbe8e9$15e7ae00$41b70a00$@net> http://www.favicon.co.uk/ > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Ralf Lister > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:09 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files > > Hello, > > > > I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. > > > > I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather > expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon > files? > > > > Saludos > > Actuary Ralf Lister > > La Paz, Bolivia > > Registrado en ASFI > > No. Registro: Act.Mat. 001 > > NIT: 1016725022 > > Skype Name: ralf.martin.lister > > Tel.: 222 26 61, Cel. 70136531 > > rlister at actuarial-files.com > > www.actuarial-files.com > > Environment > > From kathryn at bassett.net Tue Mar 22 18:32:23 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 16:32:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps Message-ID: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Rusty said: > pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root > my phone to use it. I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a Samsung Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying Verizon for tethering. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:16:33 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:16:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. Tethering is built into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. Charlotte Foust On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > Rusty said: >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root >> my phone to use it. > > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a Samsung > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying > Verizon for tethering. > > > -- > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > kathryn at bassett.net > http://bassett.net > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:20:06 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:20:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: It's an added monthly cost, now that Verizon and AT&T offer it. $20/month IIRC On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market > (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. Tethering is built > into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett > wrote: > > Rusty said: > >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root > >> my phone to use it. > > > > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a > Samsung > > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in > > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying > > Verizon for tethering. > > > > > > -- > > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > > kathryn at bassett.net > > http://bassett.net > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:37:22 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 17:37:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: Over and above the unlimited data plan? Charlotte Foust On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM, David McAfee wrote: > It's an added monthly cost, now that Verizon and AT&T offer it. > > $20/month IIRC > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Charlotte Foust > wrote: > >> My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market >> (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. ?Tethering is built >> into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett >> wrote: >> > Rusty said: >> >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to root >> >> my phone to use it. >> > >> > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a >> Samsung >> > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in >> > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying >> > Verizon for tethering. >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) >> > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" >> > kathryn at bassett.net >> > http://bassett.net >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Tue Mar 22 19:55:39 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:55:39 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files In-Reply-To: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> References: <000c01cbe8a3$0437f340$0ca7d9c0$@com> Message-ID: <8014C171AFE944879C38E8363D8226AF@stevelaptop> Ralf, I use Axialis IconWorkshop. It is a totally brilliant product. I see they are currently offering it for $US25. http://www.axialis.com/ Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Ralf Lister Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:08 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Hello, I want to create an application icon for my Access 2007 application. I know that the program "Microangelo" does this (but for here rather expensive). So do you know of a shareware product that lets you create icon files? From kismert at gmail.com Tue Mar 22 19:58:32 2011 From: kismert at gmail.com (Kenneth Ismert) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 19:58:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Icon Files Message-ID: Some free icon library sources: famfamfam http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/ A popular free icon source. IconEden -- Free Vector Icons http://www.iconeden.com/icon/category/free My personal favorite, load into Inkscape, and modify for your needs. Great examples of how to build vector images. p.yusukekamiyamane http://p.yusukekamiyamane.com/ Free if attribution is given. IconPot http://www.iconpot.com/ Please respect the licensing terms of the various icon authors. -Ken From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Mar 22 20:33:57 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 21:33:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] OT: PPT to Video In-Reply-To: References: <4D84AEA6.5060107@colbyconsulting.com>, , <014401cbe764$16cb9e20$4462da60$@activebilling.com.au>, Message-ID: <000001cbe8fa$61b4d4a0$251e7de0$@net> I think you want Camtasia by TechSmith..... > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jurgen Welz > Sent: Monday, March 21, 2011 12:14 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] OT: PPT to Video > > > I've been searching for a decent PowerPoint to video converter so as to > burn some DVDs of some PowerPoint marketing material. > > So far the free stuff yeilds crappy results and the trial stuff isn't > much better. Does anyone have a suggestion of something free or > inexpensive that yeilds high quality results? > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From marksimms at verizon.net Tue Mar 22 21:04:58 2011 From: marksimms at verizon.net (Mark Simms) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 22:04:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> Message-ID: <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 22 23:24:42 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2011 21:24:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> Message-ID: Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 23 03:38:25 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 08:38:25 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B2569CA@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Have a look at live at Edu this will give you some idea of what it's like. Add in SharePoint and your almost there. Martin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: 23 March 2011 02:05 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Wed Mar 23 05:22:42 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 06:22:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <020601cbe8fe$b67bb950$23732bf0$@net> Message-ID: Macros are the answer! Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 One minor problem: The cloud versions don't support VBA. > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it yet > -- > very selective business for now. > > Susan H. > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > all > of > > my > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > from > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > development > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > back > > ups > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing yet? > > Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > TIA > > > > Rocky > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 05:30:39 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 20:30:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, , Message-ID: <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) -- Stuart On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > Macros are the answer! > > Jim. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:25 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mark Simms > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > One minor problem: > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 11:51 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it > > yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > > all > > of > > > my > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > > from > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > development > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > > back > > > ups > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing > > > yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > Rocky > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 11:49:45 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 09:49:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > -- > Stuart > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > Jim. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > One minor problem: > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for it > > > yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to put > > > > all > > > of > > > > my > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my development > > > from > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > development > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no more > > > back > > > > ups > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any pricing > > > > yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > Rocky > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 12:00:44 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:00:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: I believe so, but I'm not sure if it is a physical connection (USB) tether or the mobile wifi/hotspot option, or both. If you didn't receive the text message that they sent out the other day, you should be ok. I think is complete BS. Uunlimited data, should be that. On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Over and above the unlimited data plan? > > Charlotte Foust > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:20 PM, David McAfee > wrote: > > It's an added monthly cost, now that Verizon and AT&T offer it. > > > > $20/month IIRC > > > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Charlotte Foust > > wrote: > > > >> My phone is restricted to downloads available through android market > >> (thanks, AT&T) and PDANet is not available there. Tethering is built > >> into the 2.2 OS, though, so maybe I don't need it. > >> > >> Charlotte Foust > >> > >> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Kathryn Bassett > >> wrote: > >> > Rusty said: > >> >> pdaNet seems to work pretty well for tethering and I didn't have to > root > >> >> my phone to use it. > >> > > >> > I've been using pdaNet to tether my Verizon WindowsMobile phone (a > >> Samsung > >> > Omnia II) for several months without any problems. Now, when I'm in > >> > Motorhome, I can use my phone as a modem for my laptop without paying > >> > Verizon for tethering. > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) > >> > "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" > >> > kathryn at bassett.net > >> > http://bassett.net > > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 23 12:11:15 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 10:11:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Outlook Calendars (a bit OT) Message-ID: <671D5178AF944D1691C710DA6840737D@HAL9005> Dear List: I have a client who recently installed a server and they added a shared calendar to their Outlook (Firm calendar) which is on the server. So everyone has access to the Firm calendar and their local calendar on their own comp. The problem is that they can set alerts for their local calendar but not for the shared calendar. Outlook tells them when they add a item to the Firm calendar that they cannot set alerts because "the item is not in a folder that supports reminders". Sometimes they get a second notice that the Firm calendar is not the primary calendar so the responses will not be tallied. They would like to be able to set alerts for both calendars. Can this be done? If not they would like alerts for the Firm calendar. But I'm no good with Outlook. Any guidance on this? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From carbonnb at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 14:03:15 2011 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:03:15 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <00b101cbe8da$4a2ba540$de82efc0$@winhaven.net> <2073553792.2814566.1300831581731.JavaMail.root@sz0143a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: You are going to need to be more specific. Do the emails not show up? Are you getting bounces? Are you not getting answers? etc, etc, etc. The more info YOU give, the better answer we can give. Bryan On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 6:06 PM, wrote: > > I have been having trouble replying to an email. > > What is going on ? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "DBA-Access" > Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:44:15 PM > Subject: [AccessD] test > > John B > > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. > SPAMfighter has removed 97 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > The Professional version does not have this message > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at gmail.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Wed Mar 23 14:34:46 2011 From: listmaster at databaseadvisors.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:34:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Administrivia - Spam Filtering on DBA Servers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: We have made a change to the way our mailservers deal with spam filtering. We were getting too many false positive reports from one of the spam black list services we use, so we have discontinued using them. Hopefully your bounce troubles should be over, or at the very least greatly minimized. If you continue to have issues surrounding bounces, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE get in touch with me (listmaster at databaseadvisors OR carbonnb at gmail.com if the listmaster address bounces). -- Bryan Carbonnell - listmaster at databaseadvisors.com Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "What a great ride!" From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 23 15:41:12 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 13:41:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Test Message Message-ID: <005001cbe99a$a6977410$5bdea8c0@edz1> This is a test to see if I get a bounce. From garykjos at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 14:55:17 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:55:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Test Message In-Reply-To: <005001cbe99a$a6977410$5bdea8c0@edz1> References: <005001cbe99a$a6977410$5bdea8c0@edz1> Message-ID: Got it here Edward. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > ?This is a test to see if I get a bounce. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From edzedz at comcast.net Wed Mar 23 16:05:37 2011 From: edzedz at comcast.net (Edward Zuris) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:05:37 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Test Message In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201cbe99e$0f95ef20$5bdea8c0@edz1> It is working. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Test Message Got it here Edward. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Edward Zuris wrote: > > ?This is a test to see if I get a bounce. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 23 15:57:34 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 16:57:34 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] test Message-ID: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> test - was bouncing! -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 16:02:46 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:02:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console Message-ID: I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display status of events that are happening. After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does in a DOS window. Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar down? If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete everything up to the first VBCRLF. Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? Thanks, David From carbonnb at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 16:02:42 2011 From: carbonnb at gmail.com (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:02:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Now not bouncing. On 2011-03-23 4:59 PM, "jwcolby" wrote: > test - was bouncing! > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Wed Mar 23 16:08:19 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:08:19 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <88DC0D9EDDB64C58AEE9B36CF615ED34@HAL9005> After adding to the text box, could you find the total length of the text in the text box and do a .SelStart at that position? Would that work? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Faux console I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display status of events that are happening. After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does in a DOS window. Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar down? If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete everything up to the first VBCRLF. Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? Thanks, David -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Wed Mar 23 16:25:52 2011 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 14:25:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps In-Reply-To: References: <006601cbe8e9$655cb6b0$30162410$@net> Message-ID: <006f01cbe9a0$e318bec0$a94a3c40$@net> Verizon charges $30/month for the data plan and $30/month for tethering. The data plan is per month included in your contract. The tethering can get turned on and off and you pay a pro-rated amount for the time actually turned on. Before pdaNet, I would turn on tethering before a long weekend, and turn off when I returned, paying for the 3, 4, 5 days only. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net?? > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd- > bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Most useful droid apps > > I believe so, but I'm not sure if it is a physical connection (USB) tether > or the mobile wifi/hotspot option, or both. > > If you didn't receive the text message that they sent out the other day, you > should be ok. > > I think is complete BS. Uunlimited data, should be that. > > > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:37 PM, Charlotte Foust > wrote: > > > Over and above the unlimited data plan? > > > > Charlotte Foust From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 16:49:36 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 07:49:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, Message-ID: <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. -- Stuart On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > Jim. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > One minor problem: > > > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for > > > > it yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to > > > > > put all > > > > of > > > > > my > > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > > > > > development > > > > from > > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > > development > > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no > > > > > more > > > > back > > > > > ups > > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any > > > > > pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:02:20 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:02:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: <88DC0D9EDDB64C58AEE9B36CF615ED34@HAL9005> References: <88DC0D9EDDB64C58AEE9B36CF615ED34@HAL9005> Message-ID: I was looking at that at first, but I think it required the "console" to have focus, and I just wanted to update it. I got it working: Private Sub UpdateStatus(StatusText As String) Dim intCurrPos As Integer Dim intNumberOfVbCrLFs As Integer, intFirstVbCrLf As Integer, FoundVbCrLf As Integer intCurrPos = 1 Me.txtStatus = Me.txtStatus + StatusText & vbCrLf Do Until intCurrPos >= Len(Me.txtStatus.Value) FoundVbCrLf = InStr(intCurrPos, Me.txtStatus.Value, vbCrLf) If FoundVbCrLf Then 'found If intFirstVbCrLf = 0 Then intFirstVbCrLf = FoundVbCrLf intCurrPos = FoundVbCrLf + 2 intNumberOfVbCrLFs = intNumberOfVbCrLFs + 1 If intCurrPos > Len(Me.txtStatus.Value) Then Exit Do Else 'not found intCurrPos = intCurrPos + 1 End If Loop If intNumberOfVbCrLFs > 16 Then Me.txtStatus = Right(Me.txtStatus.Value, Len(Me.txtStatus.Value) - (intFirstVbCrLf + 1)) End Sub On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > After adding to the text box, could you find the total length of the text > in > the text box and do a .SelStart at that position? Would that work? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:03 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Faux console > > I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display > status > of events that are happening. > > After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. > > The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does in a > DOS window. > > Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar down? > > If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete > everything up to the first VBCRLF. > > Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? > > Thanks, > David > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:03:11 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:03:11 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Sadly, me too. :( On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > > -- > Stuart > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > > wrote: > > > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > > > Jim. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > One minor problem: > > > > > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for > > > > > it yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to > > > > > > put all > > > > > of > > > > > > my > > > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > > > > > > development > > > > > from > > > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > > > development > > > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no > > > > > > more > > > > > back > > > > > > ups > > > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any > > > > > > pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 17:10:44 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:10:44 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> Message-ID: <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In tab. Am I doing something wrong? Public Sub basSetProperties() basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" End Sub Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue basSetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_basSetProperty: Exit Function Err_basSetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else basSetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_basSetProperty End If End Function Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > >Carolyn Johnson From cjlabs at att.net Wed Mar 23 17:19:34 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:19:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> That looks like what I use. Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? Carolyn Johnson ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In tab. Am I doing something wrong? Public Sub basSetProperties() basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" End Sub Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue basSetProperty = True Set db = Nothing Exit_basSetProperty: Exit Function Err_basSetProperty: If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, varPropValue) db.Properties.Append prp Resume Next Else basSetProperty = False MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description Resume Exit_basSetProperty End If End Function Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > >Carolyn Johnson -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 17:20:13 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:20:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D8A721D.3979.339251D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I normally use a listbox for this. Set the rowsource to Value List and make sure that it is not sorted. Function AddToLogList(strData) 'Add new item to the end lstLog.Additem(strData) 'Remove first item if list is now too long If lstLog.Listcount > 50 then lstLog.RemoveItem(0) end if 'Move to last item in list lstLog = strData End Function On 23 Mar 2011 at 14:02, David McAfee wrote: > I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display > status of events that are happening. > > After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. > > The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does > in a DOS window. > > Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar > down? > > If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete > everything up to the first VBCRLF. > > Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? > > Thanks, > David > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 17:36:19 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:36:19 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> Message-ID: <20110323223717.WJFG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> I have a number of custom menus but all forms and reports have a custom menu assigned to them. David At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >That looks like what I use. > >Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? > >Carolyn Johnson > > >----- Original Message ----- > From: David Emerson > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that > opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and > am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In > tab. Am I doing something wrong? > > Public Sub basSetProperties() > > basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" > basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" > ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" > > End Sub > > Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long > > On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > Set db = CurrentDb > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > basSetProperty = True > Set db = Nothing > > Exit_basSetProperty: > Exit Function > > Err_basSetProperty: > If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found > Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, > varPropValue) > db.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > basSetProperty = False > MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description > Resume Exit_basSetProperty > End If > > End Function > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > > At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of > >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the > >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do > >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > > > >Carolyn Johnson From cjlabs at att.net Wed Mar 23 17:40:44 2011 From: cjlabs at att.net (Carolyn Johnson) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:40:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com><19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell><20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell><20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz><260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> <20110323223717.WJFG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: And one of them is called MenuBarMenus? That's the menu bar on the first form? Carolyn ----- Original Message ----- From: David Emerson To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 I have a number of custom menus but all forms and reports have a custom menu assigned to them. David At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >That looks like what I use. > >Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? > >Carolyn Johnson > > >----- Original Message ----- > From: David Emerson > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that > opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and > am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In > tab. Am I doing something wrong? > > Public Sub basSetProperties() > > basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False > basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True > basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" > basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" > ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" > > End Sub > > Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long > > On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > Set db = CurrentDb > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > basSetProperty = True > Set db = Nothing > > Exit_basSetProperty: > Exit Function > > Err_basSetProperty: > If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found > Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, > varPropValue) > db.Properties.Append prp > Resume Next > Else > basSetProperty = False > MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description > Resume Exit_basSetProperty > End If > > End Function > > > Regards > > David Emerson > Dalyn Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand > > At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of > >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the > >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do > >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > > > >Carolyn Johnson -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 17:46:15 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 15:46:15 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Faux console In-Reply-To: <4D8A721D.3979.339251D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4D8A721D.3979.339251D@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: ooh, and much more simple! On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:20 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > I normally use a listbox for this. Set the rowsource to Value List and make > sure that it is not > sorted. > > Function AddToLogList(strData) > 'Add new item to the end > lstLog.Additem(strData) > > 'Remove first item if list is now too long > If lstLog.Listcount > 50 then > lstLog.RemoveItem(0) > end if > > 'Move to last item in list > lstLog = strData > End Function > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 14:02, David McAfee wrote: > > > I'm trying to make a fake console window out of a text box to display > > status of events that are happening. > > > > After every update, I insert a VBCRLF. > > > > The trouble is, after 16 lines, the text doesn't scroll up as it does > > in a DOS window. > > > > Is there a way to programmatically scroll the vertical scroll bar > > down? > > > > If not, I was thinking of counting the VBCRLF's and if >15, delete > > everything up to the first VBCRLF. > > > > Does anyone have any idea (or samples) of what I am trying to do? > > > > Thanks, > > David > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 17:56:41 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:56:41 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 In-Reply-To: References: <0B2BF8524B73A248A2F1B81BA751ED3C197970D5AA@houex1.kindermorgan.com> <19EC6E1424EF444898084983483B696B@Dell> <20110310213815.BKGA26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <3F269013169246F8A2E7F43FBC5D536E@Dell> <20110323221120.UFAS5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> <260F92E4633B4E05A17E7271B0624D6F@Dell> <20110323223717.WJFG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <20110323225725.YMLG5781.mta02.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Yes - that is the menu in the menu bar property. Could I send you the file off line to test to see if you have the same result? It is a basic app with no tables and four forms? David At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: >And one of them is called MenuBarMenus? That's the menu bar on the >first form? > >Carolyn > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Emerson > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:36 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > I have a number of custom menus but all forms and reports have a > custom menu assigned to them. > > David > > At 24/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > >That looks like what I use. > > > >Do all your forms have your custom menu bar assigned to them? > > > >Carolyn Johnson > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > From: David Emerson > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 database in Access 2007 > > > > > > I call the code below from the Open event of the first form that > > opens when the app starts. I have just tested it on Access 2007 and > > am still seeing the ribbon. My custom menu is showing in the Add In > > tab. Am I doing something wrong? > > > > Public Sub basSetProperties() > > > > basSetProperty "StartupShowDBWindow", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowShortcutMenus", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "AllowFullMenus", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowBuiltinToolbars", dbBoolean, False > > basSetProperty "AllowToolbarChanges", dbBoolean, False > > > > basSetProperty "AllowSpecialKeys", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "StartupShowStatusBar", dbBoolean, True > > basSetProperty "UseAppIconForFrmRpt", dbBoolean, True > > > > basSetProperty "AppTitle", dbText, "Ribbon Test" > > basSetProperty "StartUpMenuBar", dbText, "MenuBarMenus" > > ' basSetProperty "AppIcon", dbText, "C:Prog\LTD.ico" > > > > End Sub > > > > Public Function basSetProperty(strPropName As String, varPropType As > > Variant, varPropValue As Variant) As Long > > > > On Error GoTo Err_basSetProperty > > > > Dim db As DAO.Database, prp As DAO.Property > > Set db = CurrentDb > > db.Properties(strPropName) = varPropValue > > basSetProperty = True > > Set db = Nothing > > > > Exit_basSetProperty: > > Exit Function > > > > Err_basSetProperty: > > If Err = 3270 Then 'Property not found > > Set prp = db.CreateProperty(strPropName, varPropType, > > varPropValue) > > db.Properties.Append prp > > Resume Next > > Else > > basSetProperty = False > > MsgBox "SetProperties", Err.Number, Err.Description > > Resume Exit_basSetProperty > > End If > > > > End Function > > > > > > Regards > > > > David Emerson > > Dalyn Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand > > > > At 11/03/2011, Carolyn Johnson wrote: > > >Well, it seems to be working on 2010 now. Maybe I'm thinking of > > >times when I bypassed the startup form and then had to deal with the > > >ribbon. But I thought it was enough of a problem to put on my To Do > > >list. Guess I'll cross it off! > > > > > >Carolyn Johnson > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ramzcbu at gmail.com Wed Mar 23 19:52:07 2011 From: ramzcbu at gmail.com (Ramz .) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 17:52:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] test In-Reply-To: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D8A5EBE.2030702@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: test - was bouncing... From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 23 22:05:08 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:05:08 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA Message-ID: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Folks, I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design mode. WTF? Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I am going about it completely the wrong way. Access 2003 BTW... Regards Darryl. _____________________________________ Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer Retail Business Insurance Insurance Australia Group (IAG) Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 23 22:21:25 2011 From: newsgrps at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:21:25 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA In-Reply-To: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <20110324032200.PYDO26379.mta01.xtra.co.nz@David-PC.dalyn.co.nz> Darryl, Try the Caption property instead. Me.tabIntro.Pages(1).Caption = "Acceptance Criteria (" & gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand At 24/03/2011, Darryl Collins wrote: >_______________________________________________________________________________________ > >Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the >bottom of this message. >_______________________________________________________________________________________ > > >Hi Folks, > >I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. > >Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & >gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" > >but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a >very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design mode. WTF? > >Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to >set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I >am going about it completely the wrong way. > >Access 2003 BTW... > >Regards >Darryl. > >_____________________________________ > >Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer >Retail Business Insurance >Insurance Australia Group (IAG) >Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia >Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 >Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 23 22:23:18 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 13:23:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA In-Reply-To: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103240305.p2O35GPK031196@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D8AB926.1156.D1768A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Why would you want to change the Name property of any control at runtime. It will break all references to the control. Are you sure it isn't the Caption that you want to change? -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 14:05, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi Folks, > > I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. > > Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & > gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" > > but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a > very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design > mode. WTF? > > Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to > set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I > am going about it completely the wrong way. > > Access 2003 BTW... > > Regards > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 23 22:37:57 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:37:57 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA In-Reply-To: <4D8AB926.1156.D1768A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <201103240338.p2O3c5VQ020670@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ aaaah, Yes, Gentlemen, this is exactly what I need, along with more than the 5 hours sleep a night I have gotten for the past two nights. Of course it would be Caption and not Name. Oddly, I did actually know that, but hey... stupid does what stupid does when having a brain freeze and major senior moment. Thanks guys. Appreciate the heads up - back on track. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, 24 March 2011 2:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Set Tab name (in tabbed page) via VBA Why would you want to change the Name property of any control at runtime. It will break all references to the control. Are you sure it isn't the Caption that you want to change? -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 14:05, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Hi Folks, > > I was pretty confident that this would work just fine. > > Me.tabIntro.Pages.Item(1).Name = "Acceptance Criteria (" & > gstrPreEstVar(5) & ")" > > but no. When running the code I debug out at this line and I get a > very useful error saying I can only do this if the form is in design > mode. WTF? > > Now, I am missing the bleeding obvious here or is it not possible to > set the Tab Page name using code? More likely it is possible, but I > am going about it completely the wrong way. > > Access 2003 BTW... > > Regards > Darryl. > > _____________________________________ > > Darryl Collins | Business Analyst Database Developer > Retail Business Insurance > Insurance Australia Group (IAG) > Level 2, 181 Williams St, Melbourne, 3000 - Australia > Ph: + 61 3 9916 3926 > Mobile: + 61 418 381 548 > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 01:14:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 23:14:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. -- Stuart On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > -- > > Stuart > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > Jim. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Yeah. Psh. VBA. Overrated anyway. Who needs...wait a minute... > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > One minor problem: > > > > > > The cloud versions don't support VBA. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > Isn't it still in beta? You can't get into the beta program for > > > > it yet -- very selective business for now. > > > > > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does any one know about Office 365? Would it be practical to > > > > > put all > > > > of > > > > > my > > > > > customers' app, databases, etc. in the cloud and do my > > > > > development > > > > from > > > > > there? What about the lag time of manipulating an app, doing > > > > development > > > > > and testing, on a remote server? It would be convenient - no > > > > > more > > > > back > > > > > ups > > > > > - it's all out there in the cloud. And do they have any > > > > > pricing yet? Didn't see any on the web site. > > > > > > > > > > TIA > > > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 24 07:27:58 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:27:58 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu Mar 24 07:47:36 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 12:47:36 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. Martin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to > move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good > money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their > first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the > technology divide are you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* > from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 09:07:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 07:07:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 24 09:41:10 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:41:10 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> Microsoft still doesn't get it; while people do want new features, first and foremost they want something that works day in and day out. And if it doesn't work, they want it FIXED. Not another version which has a new set of problems and requires more hardware to run. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From sturner at mseco.com Thu Mar 24 10:17:48 2011 From: sturner at mseco.com (Steve Turner) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:17:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005><4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com><4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com><74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> Message-ID: Amen to that. I used Firefox almost exclusively till I had to use IE on some particular sites. However When I updated to IE 8 and Somewhere I installed some little program of which I don't know Or the latest Firefox Update caused my print reports in Firefox to quit working. Havn't figured that one out yet and some State sites and the Bank I use I had to switch back to IE to get printouts. I'm thinking it's a MS thing. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Microsoft still doesn't get it; while people do want new features, first and foremost they want something that works day in and day out. And if it doesn't work, they want it FIXED. Not another version which has a new set of problems and requires more hardware to run. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 24 10:26:54 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:26:54 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not there... Give me a stinkin sandbox ... I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's and children's machines as well. One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were hitting the page file. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 10:37:34 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 08:37:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: A2007 and Windows Mobile 7 did it for me. A2007, new ribbon and layout, but still leaving old bugs/problems. WM5/6 with SQL Server CE was such an awesome combination. To drop it and force existing apps to be rewritten in Silverlight/XML, made me say "I'm done with new MS technologies". I've had to completely rewrite, existing/working mobile apps because of MS' forcing of new technologies and deprecating totally working systems. If I'm learning something new, it's going to be Android/iPhone programming. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide > are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > > -- > Stuart > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 9:49, David McAfee wrote: > > > Sadly, that's what they are forcing us towards. > > > > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Stuart McLachlan > > wrote: > > > > > Ptui! Wash your mouth out :-) > > > > > > -- > > > Stuart > > > > > > On 23 Mar 2011 at 6:22, Jim Dettman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Macros are the answer! > > > > > > > > Jim. > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 11:22:22 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (rockysmolin at bchacc.com) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 09:22:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Message-ID: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Thu Mar 24 11:44:54 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:44:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 12:32:17 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 10:32:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Jim: I get a compile error on the EOF - argument not optional. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 13:05:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:05:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <74B30B7637324A0E9F1E0E17B2499D95@creativesystemdesigns.com> <9D2806A59DFE4BA5A6F3B0D89BBB28E1@XPS> Message-ID: <31F23530A68141E1927C3B6C84D83F7F@creativesystemdesigns.com> It is an MS thing. It is how the site was built. The site builder first created the site in IE and that is a far as they went...just a little lazy as IE tends to break a good number of the W3C rules. I first build my sites so they would perfect on Chrome, FF, Safari and Opera, and that may take a week then there is IE and to get it to comply takes another week. (Clients never like paying double for IE compliance. Some have gone so far, in their in Intranet sites as to block IE) It usually requires another set CSS and JS script files, a few patches but using JQuery mostly handles the problems. JQuery usually tries to keep ahead of IE but it can be a difficult task...with every update another set of problems... IE6/IE7/IE8 and now IE9 all work slightly different. I am sure MS IE will eventually compile with the industry standards but I am sure it is a humbling experience for them to realize that, unlike the old days, their standard does not imply the new world standard. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Steve Turner Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Amen to that. I used Firefox almost exclusively till I had to use IE on some particular sites. However When I updated to IE 8 and Somewhere I installed some little program of which I don't know Or the latest Firefox Update caused my print reports in Firefox to quit working. Havn't figured that one out yet and some State sites and the Bank I use I had to switch back to IE to get printouts. I'm thinking it's a MS thing. Steve A. Turner Controller Mid-South Engineering Co. Inc E-Mail: sturner at mseco.com and saturner at mseco.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 Microsoft still doesn't get it; while people do want new features, first and foremost they want something that works day in and day out. And if it doesn't work, they want it FIXED. Not another version which has a new set of problems and requires more hardware to run. Jim. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 I agree. :-) ...and it seems Safari, Chrome and Opera are not unhappy either. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 5:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to move > its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and > subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their first warning > with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are > you on?" > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* from > Access as a FE > for anything other than simple reporting. > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Thu Mar 24 13:05:43 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 13:05:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <003d01cbea4e$180e9a70$482bcf50$@comcast.net> Try: Do While Not Me.Recordset.EOF -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Jim: I get a compile error on the EOF - argument not optional. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 24 13:14:23 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 11:14:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser wars: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs-opera -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 Real benchmark testing. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not there... Give me a stinkin sandbox ... I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's and children's machines as well. One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were hitting the page file. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu Mar 24 13:58:02 2011 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 18:58:02 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 Message-ID: <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470AB9662B@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> Sent from my Windows Phone Sent from my Windows Phone -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence Sent: 24 March 2011 18:16 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser wars: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs-opera -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 Real benchmark testing. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not there... Give me a stinkin sandbox ... I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's and children's machines as well. One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were hitting the page file. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use whatever opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 24 14:59:46 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:59:46 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Browser wars... In-Reply-To: <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005> <4D89CBCF.12867.AF9E92@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8A6AF0.22092.31D1C66@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <002896678BB349969666903EA9A400DA@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D8B38CE.9060706@colbyconsulting.com> <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk> <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D8BA2B2.5010107@colbyconsulting.com> Now open task manager and click on processes. Sort image name A>Z. Open 10 copies of IE. Open 10 copies of Firefox. I use Google.com as the home page for both. Just observe the number and sizes of the instances of both programs. Close all the instances of both. Open Firefox and then open msnbc.com in the first tab. I use MSNBC.com simply because it is a fairly "heavy" site. Now open five tabs inside of that firefox instance and open msnbc.com in each tab. Do the same with IE. Observe task manager, specifically observe the number of instances of each program and observe the memory used for each instance in task manager. I simply suggest this test because there is more to a browser than the java engine it uses. One of the reasons I switched to Firefox was that (back in the day) I was running a laptop with a half gig of memory. I multitask and I was hitting the swap file all the time. What I discovered was that with a bunch of stuff open, IE was sitting at 400 megs of RAM. When I tried Firefox it would use a hundred megs. It seems both have gotten "fatter" in the years since. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/24/2011 2:14 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser wars: > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs-opera > -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 > > Real benchmark testing. > > Jim From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 15:32:05 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 13:32:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem In-Reply-To: <003d01cbea4e$180e9a70$482bcf50$@comcast.net> References: <20110324092222.86c3debdd1c3983866efe200e2feb95f.b0416798b6.wbe@email18.secureserver.net> <4d8b750b.1d44960a.4c24.0b83@mx.google.com> <003d01cbea4e$180e9a70$482bcf50$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <5FD6004813D344ECB0E374785C75E57F@HAL9005> Dan: That works, but the spell check still stops after the first correction. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Try: Do While Not Me.Recordset.EOF -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Jim: I get a compile error on the EOF - argument not optional. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Rocky, This is just a WAG... Would it work to: Do While Not EOF Instead of Do While Me.NewRecord = false Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Spell Check Problem Dear List: I have a routine in an app which spell checks a field. There's a command button that will go through all the records in the recordset and spell check each record. Problem is that when it prompts for a correction and the user clicks change or change all, the correction is made but then the spell checking stops. Here's the code: DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acFirst Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Enabled = True Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.Locked = False Do While Me.NewRecord = False Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SetFocus Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelStart = 0 If Not IsNull(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) Then Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative.SelLength = Len(Me.txtTimeEntryNarrative) DoCmd.SetWarnings False DoCmd.RunCommand acCmdSpelling DoCmd.SetWarnings True End If DoCmd.GoToRecord , , acNext Loop Is there a workaround for this problem? MTIA Rocky -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 24 15:44:10 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:44:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, <631CF83223105545BF43EFB52CB08295470B256FB9@EX2K7-VIRT-2.ads.qub.ac.uk>, <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8BAD1A.5229.282E202@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Why the h*** should I have to go into Internet Explorer options to make an application run properly over the LAN? Even just to make WIndows Help work properly!!!! -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 11:26, jwcolby wrote: > I dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have > never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to > allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not > there... From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 24 15:58:39 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 06:58:39 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Office 365 In-Reply-To: <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <3EE1518BB80548BEA43293C208ABD7B2@HAL9005>, <4D8B62BE.70309@colbyconsulting.com>, <8ED35DEADE8A4969843B3BAA419EF0B5@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D8BB07F.282.290246E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> That's basically just Javascript interpretation speed. And their is very little difference between the various browsers. To me there are a lot more important issues such as "security crap", memory usage, user interface, capabilities. In my case, I use Firefox because there are a some Addons which drastically improve my productivity. -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 11:14, Jim Lawrence wrote: > For those interested here is the latest specs on the current browser > wars: > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ie9-vs-chrome-10-vs-firefox-4-rc-vs > -opera -1101-vs-safari-5-the-big-browser-benchmark/11890 > > Real benchmark testing. > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:27 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > The "normal" user doesn't know that there is an alternative. I > dislike IE specifically because of all the security crap. I have > never seen a more convoluted set of options for getting the browser to > allow this, but don't allow that but allow stuff to run here but not > there... > > Give me a stinkin sandbox ... > > I use DropMyRights, even on my own systems to run Firefox, Thunderbird > and anything else that goes to the internet. I use that on my wife's > and children's machines as well. > > One reason I use Firefox is that their response to security issues is > pretty much "right now". Another reason I use FireFox is that (for > awhile) the memory footprint of Firefox was much lower than IE. It > used to be that if you opened 15 different pages with IE you were > hitting the page file. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/24/2011 8:47 AM, Martin Reid wrote: > > To the "normal" user the browser doesn't matter at all. They use > > whatever > opens on the PC. They have no idea it's even a browser. Personally if > it opens the BBC web site and a few others I don't care what it is. I > can't understand all this "I prefer browser x over y" stuff. > > > Martin > > -----Original Message----- > From: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > > Sent: 24 March 2011 12:28 > To: Access Developers discussion and > problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 365 > > >Everyone > has been given their first warning with IE9; which poses the question, > "Which side of the technology divide are you on?" > > ROTFLMAO. > Firefox is making huge gains in the browser war because Microsoft has > refused to allow XP users to use the latest IE version. Microsoft > claims that without the "latest technology" their browser cannot be as > good as it needs to be. Of course MS is trying to sell Windows 7 into > the XP crowd. > > Notice FireFox works just fine with the XP crowd. > > > >which poses the question, "Which side of the technology divide > are you on?" > > Uhh.. the Firefox side. ;) I pretty much have no > use for IE unless I hit a site that I absolutely have to use and that > site refuses to work with Firefox. And guess what, with Firefox > winning the browser war, more and more sites are dropping their "IE > only" crapola. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On > 3/24/2011 2:14 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: >> I suspect that Microsoft > will be become more resolute in it edict to >> move its customers > along into the acceptance of the new technology and >> subsequently > the purchase of its' new products. MS does not make good >> money > supporting old technologies... Everyone has been given their >> first > warning with IE9; which poses the question, "Which side of the >> > technology divide are you on?" >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> -----Original > Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart >> > McLachlan >> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 2:50 PM >> To: Access > Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Office 365 >> >> They are not forcing me towards anything, they are > forcing me *away* >> from Access as a FE for anything other than > simple reporting. >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 16:45:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 14:45:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Message-ID: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Dear List: I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter" I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the second machine where it's a period on the first machine? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 24 17:04:54 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 08:04:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export In-Reply-To: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> References: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D8BC006.15776.2CCCC9F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Almost certainly the case. The comma is used as a decimal character in a lot of languages. That's why I always use Tab separated values when I have the choice. -- Stuart On 24 Mar 2011 at 14:45, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText > command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well > on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export > fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): > > "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal > separator or text delimiter" > > I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the > second machine where it's a period on the first machine? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 24 17:16:18 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 01:16:18 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export In-Reply-To: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> References: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: Hi Rocky -- That "ancient" sample VBA code http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s/download/imex.htm could help to solve your issue I hope. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 25 ????? 2011 ?. 0:45 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Dear List: I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter" I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the second machine where it's a period on the first machine? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 17:49:07 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 15:49:07 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export In-Reply-To: References: <2CBC20380FEB46EB85C57D5ABF7DB2DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <96D0BBC235A14AAAAC79CD7FB326E295@HAL9005> Shamil: If I can't solve it with the simple fix of having them changing the decimal character, this looks like a good workaround. Thanks. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Hi Rocky -- That "ancient" sample VBA code http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s/download/imex.htm could help to solve your issue I hope. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 25 ????? 2011 ?. 0:45 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Separator Conflict on Trasnfertext Export Dear List: I have an mde at a company in Nicaragua that has a TransferText command to export data from some of the tables. It was working well on one machine with A2K3. The new machine has A2K7 and the export fails with the following message (courtesy of Google Translate): "The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter" I'm suspecting that maybe the decimal point is set to comma on the second machine where it's a period on the first machine? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 24 22:24:23 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2011 20:24:23 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] FW: Problems exporting Data Message-ID: Whew! Rocky _____ From: Hanne Gutjahr [mailto:hanne at co2bambu.com] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 3:45 PM To: Rocky Smolin Subject: Re: Problems exporting Data Hi Rocky, I changed the settings on the new machine and now it is working. Thanks for your help, Hanne 2011/3/24 Rocky Smolin Hanne: The translation of the error message is: The field separator in the text file specification matches decimal separator or text delimiter I suspect that in the Regional and Language Options on the new machine the decimal separator is set to comma and on the machine where it is working it is set to period. Is that the case? Click Start-->Control Panel-->Regional and Language Options-->(on regional options tab) Customize... HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com _____ From: Hanne Gutjahr [mailto:hanne at co2bambu.com] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:37 AM To: Rocky Smolin Subject: Re: Problems exporting Data Attached the error report (it is in Spanish though) Putting Office 2003 is not really an alternative as everyone else in the office is working with 2007 so it makes life more complicated having different Office versions... Thanks Hanne 2011/3/24 Rocky Smolin From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 09:45:42 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:45:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Message-ID: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 25 10:21:29 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:21:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 10:34:07 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:34:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4d8cb5f2.afb3ec0a.2ed3.3651@mx.google.com> Thanks Dan. Let me work on these... I'll let you know what I find out. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From df.waters at comcast.net Fri Mar 25 10:56:52 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 10:56:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Auto Close a Simple MessageBox Message-ID: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> I found this in an old forum to allow a messagebox to close automatically. I've tried it and it works just fine! '-------------- Alternatively you could use the following code in place of your message box: CreateObject("WScript.Shell").Popup "Test.", 2, "Test" the user can also click the ok button to close the popup, or the popup will automatically close itself after two seconds, and continue on with your macro. replace "Test" with the appropriate message and title, and replace the number 2 with the number of seconds you want the popup to remain. '-------------- Dan From jackandpat.d at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 12:28:48 2011 From: jackandpat.d at gmail.com (jack drawbridge) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 13:28:48 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Auto Close a Simple MessageBox In-Reply-To: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> Message-ID: Thanks Dan. On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Dan Waters wrote: > I found this in an old forum to allow a messagebox to close automatically. > I've tried it and it works just fine! > > '-------------- > Alternatively you could use the following code in place of your message > box: > > CreateObject("WScript.Shell").Popup "Test.", 2, "Test" > > the user can also click the ok button to close the popup, or the popup will > automatically close itself after two seconds, and continue on with your > macro. replace "Test" with the appropriate message and title, and replace > the number 2 with the number of seconds you want the popup to remain. > '-------------- > > Dan > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 25 16:41:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 07:41:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, Message-ID: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx :-) From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 16:48:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:48:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Well, for heaven's sake, why did I spend all that time learning VBA and then VB.Net?? LOL Charlotte Foust On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who want something easy to > use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From davidmcafee at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 16:55:00 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 14:55:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: That's the route I wish Google would have went with AppInventor insterad of the graphical puzzle blocks of code that they are using. > On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan > wrote: > > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want > something easy to > > use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > > > :-) > From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Fri Mar 25 16:59:33 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 10:59:33 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> Very cool. Seriously, as the father of a 10-year-old, it is good to know about stuff like that. Thanks, Stuart, I hadn't seen that before! Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] New Language For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx :-) From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 25 17:16:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 08:16:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> Message-ID: <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Yep, I'm about to introduce it to my 8-year-old daughter. -- Stuart On 26 Mar 2011 at 10:59, Steve Schapel wrote: > Very cool. Seriously, as the father of a 10-year-old, it is good to > know about stuff like that. Thanks, Stuart, I hadn't seen that > before! > > Regards > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] New Language > > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want > something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just > the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 25 17:44:55 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 15:44:55 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> I guess once we have mastered that link we can go down the page and download Drupal. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 2:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] New Language For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx :-) -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Fri Mar 25 17:51:36 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2011 15:51:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: When my son was 13 I volunteered to do a weekly computer lab with about 10 kids from his class. I tried to teach them Turtle Logo on Apple IIs. That's when I realized I was destined to be a programmer not a teacher. Doug From steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz Fri Mar 25 18:12:06 2011 From: steve at datamanagementsolutions.biz (Steve Schapel) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:12:06 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><0ECA2590E1C44C66BCB642E14DFA4FD9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <17E7406BDC414E848AC1A342A51639AC@stevelaptop> LOL! Regards Steve -----Original Message----- From: Doug Steele Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 11:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language When my son was 13 I volunteered to do a weekly computer lab with about 10 kids from his class. I tried to teach them Turtle Logo on Apple IIs. That's when I realized I was destined to be a programmer not a teacher. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 26 08:50:07 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:50:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> LOL. It was a big wedding too. Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. This might be it. Thanks Stuart. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want something easy to > use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > > > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 11:01:25 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:01:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Gawd, how times have changed. When my son was small, it was an etch-a-sketch!! Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby wrote: > LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. > > Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be it. > > Thanks Stuart. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >> >> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who want >> something easy to >> use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: >> >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >> >> :-) >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Sat Mar 26 11:08:39 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:08:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <72F56912CF9B418EB4483A5EADFE731E@HAL9005> Max will be telling his grandchildren: "Why when I was a toddler all I had was a CP/M machine with a monochrome monitor. " I put a mouse in his hand when he was about 1 1/2 (1991). He doesn't remember life without a computer. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 9:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language Gawd, how times have changed. When my son was small, it was an etch-a-sketch!! Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby wrote: > LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. > > Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be it. > > Thanks Stuart. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >> >> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who >> want something easy to use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have >> just the thing for you: >> >> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >> >> :-) >> >> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 11:19:26 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 09:19:26 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <72F56912CF9B418EB4483A5EADFE731E@HAL9005> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <72F56912CF9B418EB4483A5EADFE731E@HAL9005> Message-ID: A mouse? The only mice my son encountered were the white ones in the pet shop! LOL Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Max will be telling his grandchildren: "Why when I was a toddler all I had > was a CP/M machine with a monochrome monitor. " > > I put a mouse in his hand when he was about 1 1/2 (1991). ?He doesn't > remember life without a computer. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 9:01 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language > > Gawd, how times have changed. ?When my son was small, it was an > etch-a-sketch!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby > wrote: >> LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. >> >> Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be > it. >> >> Thanks Stuart. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>> >>> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who >>> want something easy to use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have >>> just the thing for you: >>> >>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >>> >>> :-) >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 26 11:51:41 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:51:41 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/26/2011 12:01 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Gawd, how times have changed. When my son was small, it was an etch-a-sketch!! > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> LOL. It was a big wedding too. >> >> Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. This might be it. >> >> Thanks Stuart. >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >> On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>> >>> For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want >>> something easy to >>> use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: >>> >>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >>> >>> :-) >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Sat Mar 26 13:39:31 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 21:39:31 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg>, <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> Hi Stuart --- And this one can be used as a prototyping tool for serious Small Basic young programmers :) http://www.yoyogames.com/gamemaker/ (My 9+ years old son has just made his first "Galactic Burgers" game using this tool :)) BTW, he is playing computer games for several years and his first games were 3D "Spider Man" - and he (as all nowadays kids) can play that games virtuously but he just noted that "old 2D games were much better" - imagine that! :) Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: 26 ????? 2011 ?. 1:17 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New Language Yep, I'm about to introduce it to my 8-year-old daughter. -- Stuart On 26 Mar 2011 at 10:59, Steve Schapel wrote: > Very cool. Seriously, as the father of a 10-year-old, it is good to > know about stuff like that. Thanks, Stuart, I hadn't seen that > before! > > Regards > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 10:41 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] New Language > > For all you people who are looking at moving away from Acces who want > something easy to use and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just > the thing for you: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx > > :-) > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sat Mar 26 13:45:46 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 11:45:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Are you already putting your kids to work?? At their tender ages? Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:51 AM, jwcolby wrote: > An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/26/2011 12:01 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> Gawd, how times have changed. ?When my son was small, it was an >> etch-a-sketch!! >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 6:50 AM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> LOL. ?It was a big wedding too. >>> >>> Seriously though, we need something for the little kids. ?This might be >>> it. >>> >>> Thanks Stuart. >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com >>> >>> On 3/25/2011 5:41 PM, Stuart McLachlan wrote: >>>> >>>> For all you people who are looking at ?moving away from Acces who want >>>> something easy to >>>> use ?and are wedded to the .Net world, MS have just the thing for you: >>>> >>>> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/beginner/ff384126.aspx >>>> >>>> :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> AccessD mailing list >>> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 26 16:13:25 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 17:13:25 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D8E56F5.8080800@colbyconsulting.com> Tender age? He turned 10 today. Time to get a job I say! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/26/2011 2:45 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Are you already putting your kids to work?? At their tender ages? > > Charlotte Foust > > On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:51 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) >> >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Sun Mar 27 10:52:10 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2011 08:52:10 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] New Language In-Reply-To: <4D8E56F5.8080800@colbyconsulting.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <4D8DEF0F.7090401@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E199D.2050105@colbyconsulting.com> <4D8E56F5.8080800@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Oh, now I understand. He's entering the ugly stage of little boy-hood, so putting him to work is the reasonable remedy! LOL Charlotte Foust On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 2:13 PM, jwcolby wrote: > Tender age? ?He turned 10 today. ?Time to get a job I say! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > On 3/26/2011 2:45 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: >> >> Are you already putting your kids to work?? ?At their tender ages? >> >> Charlotte Foust >> >> On Sat, Mar 26, 2011 at 9:51 AM, jwcolby >> ?wrote: >>> >>> An etch-s-sketch won't get you a job... ;) >>> >>> John W. Colby >>> www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 09:56:20 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 07:56:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> Message-ID: <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on Surrogate keys. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 Jim From jerbach at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:11:34 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:11:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Message-ID: Hello - I have 2 questions for you all. 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing this? 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of thing, please let me know. Thank you! Janet Erbach IT/Office Manager Natural Healthy Concepts www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:13:57 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:13:57 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) Susan H. > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:19:55 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:19:55 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question References: Message-ID: <3F133DA9BBCC417CB51AD08071A0508C@SusanHarkins> > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - > I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' > data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? ==========A few questions: 1.) Is the customizations database an Access database? 2.) Are you sure you're actually connecting to the customization database? Regards, Susan H. From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Mar 28 10:40:28 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 08:40:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> I wrote a rather elaborate piece of code behind an Excel 2003 spreadsheet to update data in an Access mdb. Actually the project was to export data from the Access based accounting system to a real complex spreadsheet, which would allow the user to tweak all the numbers, then, when she got it the way she wanted it, import the data from the spreadsheet back into the Access back end. It was all sorts of fun. So I've got the framework and techniques. I'll give it a shot. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Hello - I have 2 questions for you all. 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing this? 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of thing, please let me know. Thank you! Janet Erbach IT/Office Manager Natural Healthy Concepts www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 28 10:42:23 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:42:23 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4D90AC5F.5020804@colbyconsulting.com> LOL, Susan Susan Susan. Inserting yourself directly in the line of fire! ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/28/2011 11:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 10:53:07 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:53:07 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> <4D90AC5F.5020804@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: "I can shoot straight, if I don't have to aim too far!" :) Susan H. > LOL, Susan Susan Susan. Inserting yourself directly in the line of fire! > ;) > >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur >> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 11:04:22 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:04:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Janet: If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a different named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > options > view). Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that it is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and force the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the link-manager etc... Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the DB is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows display can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec macro is run. Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database window" is checked. It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked so just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a number of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be all sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an objects properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple of hours to remove. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Hello - I have 2 questions for you all. 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing this? 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of thing, please let me know. Thank you! Janet Erbach IT/Office Manager Natural Healthy Concepts www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 11:07:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:07:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <59AB58680055496FA846A691B01C5353@creativesystemdesigns.com> Come on Susan, you are not being strident or offensive enough. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) Susan H. > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 11:48:14 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:48:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop> <4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around the edges in here. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. > > >> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on >> Surrogate keys. >> >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur >> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Mar 28 12:11:18 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 10:11:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant><11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <439CD325EED644DDB137F9591CEBD9F7@HAL9005> Except if you see Colby in a helicopter, you might want to walk away quietly...(cf. archives under 'Colbyizing") R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 9:48 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around the edges in here. Charlotte Foust On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. > > >> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) >> on Surrogate keys. >> >> >> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-betwee >> n-a-sur >> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 >> > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 28 12:24:09 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:24:09 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <439CD325EED644DDB137F9591CEBD9F7@HAL9005> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant><11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> <439CD325EED644DDB137F9591CEBD9F7@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D90C439.9020303@colbyconsulting.com> ROTFL. Who, *me*? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/28/2011 1:11 PM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Except if you see Colby in a helicopter, you might want to walk away > quietly...(cf. archives under 'Colbyizing") > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 9:48 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys > > Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around the > edges in here. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Susan Harkins wrote: >> I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) >> >> Susan H. >> >> >>> Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) >>> on Surrogate keys. >>> >>> >>> http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-betwee >>> n-a-sur >>> rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 >>> >> >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 12:30:13 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:30:13 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net><4D8D0C15.22575.420F903@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><975F431F641E4BB09587BE1D63ECB0E3@stevelaptop><4D8D1449.4856.4410266@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg><60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant><11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com><99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <4E4CFECF9F60434EB83A7E8E951FD870@SusanHarkins> No, not you guys -- TR readers. ;) Some have been a tad snarky lately. :) It's been a large hard winter! Susan H. > Hate mail? From US?? Nah! You'll only get a little singed around > the edges in here. From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 14:32:03 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:32:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> Dan, et al. The issue is the report. The original report was quite complex. There are 19 question types, which means a section could be all one type or a combination of several types. The original report had sub-reports for each type and when printed would unhide and expand the appropriate sub-report. The 20th sub-report is a complex report that has a sub-report for each question type. When the report is printed the sub-reports would unhide and expand as needed. Sometimes a sub-report could be used two or more times in different sequences to create a section. The section with more than one question type I call "various" because of various types of questions. The first 3 sections of the questionnaire have various questions. For example, Q1 is a 3-response question with custom responses, Q2 is a fill-in question, Q3 is a 5-response question with custom response, Q4 is self-lookup question with a combo box, Q4 is a two response question with custom response, etc. I separated the first report and made 20 different reports. So when printing, it cycles through the reports and prints them as needed. I have found that to able to print the entire questionnaire, I need to print each section in succession because each section is a different report. If I open the print menu by-itself the entire questionnaire prints. If I "log in" as a researcher, I get the same problem when it attempts to print the second section report. I'm getting closer to solving this conundrum. But, I'm sure where to go from here. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jerbach at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 16:07:50 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:07:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> References: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: Rocky - Thanks! I'm waiting to hear back from the tech temp agency to see if she will truly consider a remote arrangement. (This tech agency is kind of stuffy, and I'm waiting for her to get back to me as to whether or not she can get permission to persue a remote arrangement.) How was Bahrain? San Diego is GORGEOUS. And I got drunk for the first time in 24 years in downtown LaJolla. Must have been the smell of all that money on the air...:) Sorry I missed meeting up with you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I wrote a rather elaborate piece of code behind an Excel 2003 spreadsheet > to > update data in an Access mdb. > > Actually the project was to export data from the Access based accounting > system to a real complex spreadsheet, which would allow the user to tweak > all the numbers, then, when she got it the way she wanted it, import the > data from the spreadsheet back into the Access back end. > > It was all sorts of fun. So I've got the framework and techniques. I'll > give it a shot. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of > thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jerbach at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 16:10:55 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:10:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim - I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a different > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > options > view). > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that it > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > force > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > link-manager etc... > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the DB > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows display > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > macro is run. > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database window" > is checked. > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked so > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a number > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > all > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > objects > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple of > hours to remove. > > HTH > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of > thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Mon Mar 28 16:29:04 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:29:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <20FC69512E4F4576B73C6BA9ABC581DA@HAL9005> Message-ID: <44D5D062343C4F909F75F8555F0076F3@HAL9005> Bahrain was an adventure. The work was interesting but the last day I spent with the protesters in Pearl roundabout and went on a protest march with them (child of the 60s - couldn't help myself). Came back with a bunch of work, too! :) Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Rocky - Thanks! I'm waiting to hear back from the tech temp agency to see if she will truly consider a remote arrangement. (This tech agency is kind of stuffy, and I'm waiting for her to get back to me as to whether or not she can get permission to persue a remote arrangement.) How was Bahrain? San Diego is GORGEOUS. And I got drunk for the first time in 24 years in downtown LaJolla. Must have been the smell of all that money on the air...:) Sorry I missed meeting up with you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I wrote a rather elaborate piece of code behind an Excel 2003 > spreadsheet to update data in an Access mdb. > > Actually the project was to export data from the Access based > accounting system to a real complex spreadsheet, which would allow the > user to tweak all the numbers, then, when she got it the way she > wanted it, import the data from the spreadsheet back into the Access back end. > > It was all sorts of fun. So I've got the framework and techniques. > I'll give it a shot. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet > Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: > I've created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I > install it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export > successfully - I get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my > 'customizations' data base it can't be found. I've checked to see if > it was somehow set to be hidden, and that's not the case either. I > tried exporting it to a temporary data base, and it appeared there > just fine. But I need it to go into this 'customizations' data base, > and it just won't go! What could be causing this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? > A tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind > of experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that > type of thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Mar 28 17:18:59 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:18:59 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net>, <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant>, <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D910953.9998.13B6433E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Very brave. That'll get her "comment count" up :-) -- Stuart On 28 Mar 2011 at 7:56, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between > -a-sur rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Mon Mar 28 17:56:46 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:56:46 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <99EA935C856E403A80AE7A398D9C36CE@SusanHarkins> Message-ID: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ haha, I guess we can all send you some if you really want... :) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Tuesday, 29 March 2011 2:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) Susan H. > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between-a-sur > rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. 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This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 18:18:17 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:18:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hi Janet: Without knowing more I would suspect that the main database window has its x and/or y coordinates set off the main viewing area. It is really there just not visible. If you can get to create and edit a form then you also have access to the other database objects by creating a event. Once event has been initiated within the form, you are creating, you can then go and edit that event. This will expose all the other object in the MDB. (Do not quote me on this but there is some old memory that says by pressing it will bring the main database window into view.) Another thing you can do is check out what the macro autoexec does. Just go and select the event section, in the form you have created but this time instead of selecting an event select a macro and pick the "autoexec" macro. Then go in and see if it is making some interest calls...turn them off if need be. (Make sure all the tool bars are displayed etc...) PS: Make sure you have a backup of the anything you change. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Jim - I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a different > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > options > view). > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that it > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > force > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > link-manager etc... > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the DB > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows display > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > macro is run. > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database window" > is checked. > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked so > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a number > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > all > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > objects > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple of > hours to remove. > > HTH > > Jim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Hello - > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I install > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - I > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' data > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > temporary > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into this > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > this? > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type of > thing, please let me know. > > Thank you! > > Janet Erbach > IT/Office Manager > Natural Healthy Concepts > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 28 18:22:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 16:22:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: <4D910953.9998.13B6433E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <001601cbeb05$428fdf40$c7af9dc0$@comcast.net> <60D7DDC7A5F5462BB922E763386F3C9C@nant> <11D99220BB024327B713E82D83E2C540@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D910953.9998.13B6433E@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: <6EDFA525E8694320B8DE11BF772C6B3D@creativesystemdesigns.com> I think the bound and unbound subject needs a good article written. ...or what about Microsoft should stop supporting VB code to force all developer to move forward. ...or all SQL developers should require certification before they are even allowed to purchase SQL. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys Very brave. That'll get her "comment count" up :-) -- Stuart On 28 Mar 2011 at 7:56, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Our Susan Harkins has written and published an article (definitive) on > Surrogate keys. > > http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/10things/10-tips-for-choosing-between > -a-sur rogate-and-natural-primary-key/2362?tag=nl.e101 > > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Mon Mar 28 18:33:12 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2011 19:33:12 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) Susan H. >> > haha, I guess we can all send you some if you really want... :) > > > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Tue Mar 29 03:35:39 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 12:35:39 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys In-Reply-To: References: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: >> No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) But you do challenge them now, don 't you? :) -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: 29 ????? 2011 ?. 3:33 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Surrogate keys No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) Susan H. >> > haha, I guess we can all send you some if you really want... :) > > > I thought I'd get hate mail, but so far, nothing. ;) > > Susan H. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 07:53:04 2011 From: ssharkins at gmail.com (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:53:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys References: <201103282256.p2SMus2t028085@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <23888176F2534436B0DD9CBB49B53E2D@SusanHarkins> Shamil, I tried to not be bossy. ;) Susan H. >>> No thank you, I treasure my quiet days. :) > But you do challenge them now, don 't you? :) > From dbdoug at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 10:37:14 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:37:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] pdf output Message-ID: Hello All: I'm using the Lebans code to output pdfs directly from Access. For flexibility, I'd like to use a Where string when the report is generated, but Lebans uses Docmd.OutputTo acReport.... to get his snapshot file, and there is no WhereString parameter. Is there an easy way of doing this, or am I going to have to rework the recordsource for the report before I call the pdf output code? Thanks, Doug From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Tue Mar 29 10:41:01 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 08:41:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] pdf output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm using his code as well. And the Where string would be handy. But I always put the filters in the report or modify the record source instead of passing a filter as an argument. So I didn't have to solve this one. I'm still having the issue of the code not working when I try it from a second form unless I generate one pdf from the first form - then the second one works. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] pdf output Hello All: I'm using the Lebans code to output pdfs directly from Access. For flexibility, I'd like to use a Where string when the report is generated, but Lebans uses Docmd.OutputTo acReport.... to get his snapshot file, and there is no WhereString parameter. Is there an easy way of doing this, or am I going to have to rework the recordsource for the report before I call the pdf output code? Thanks, Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 11:31:21 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 09:31:21 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] pdf output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks, Rocky. I'm generating these pdfs without operator intervention, so I guess it's going to be recordsource modification. Doug On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 8:41 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > I'm using his code as well. ?And the Where string would be handy. ?But I > always put the filters in the report or modify the record source instead of > passing a filter as an argument. ?So I didn't have to solve this one. > > I'm still having the issue of the code not working when I try it from a > second form unless I generate one pdf from the first form - then the second > one works. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 8:37 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] pdf output > > Hello All: > > I'm using the Lebans code to output pdfs directly from Access. ?For > flexibility, I'd like to use a Where string when the report is generated, > but Lebans uses Docmd.OutputTo acReport.... to get his snapshot file, and > there is no WhereString parameter. > > Is there an easy way of doing this, or am I going to have to rework the > recordsource for the report before I call the pdf output code? > > Thanks, > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jerbach at gmail.com Tue Mar 29 13:31:28 2011 From: jerbach at gmail.com (Janet Erbach) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:31:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Jim - You're right about 'F11'. I use that all the time. I'll try you're suggestion about the autoexec...thank you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > Without knowing more I would suspect that the main database window has its > x > and/or y coordinates set off the main viewing area. It is really there just > not visible. > > If you can get to create and edit a form then you also have access to the > other database objects by creating a event. Once event has been initiated > within the form, you are creating, you can then go and edit that event. > This > will expose all the other object in the MDB. (Do not quote me on this but > there is some old memory that says by pressing it will bring the main > database window into view.) > > Another thing you can do is check out what the macro autoexec does. Just go > and select the event section, in the form you have created but this time > instead of selecting an event select a macro and pick the "autoexec" macro. > Then go in and see if it is making some interest calls...turn them off if > need be. (Make sure all the tool bars are displayed etc...) > > PS: Make sure you have a backup of the anything you change. > > HTH > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Jim - > > I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I > display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this > 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it > as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any > active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of > Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption > issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... > > Janet > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi Janet: > > > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a > different > > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > > options > view). > > > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that > it > > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > > force > > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > > link-manager etc... > > > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the > DB > > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows > display > > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > > macro is run. > > > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database > window" > > is checked. > > > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked > so > > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a > number > > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > > all > > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > > objects > > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple > of > > hours to remove. > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > > > Hello - > > > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I > install > > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - > I > > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' > data > > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > > temporary > > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into > this > > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > > this? > > > > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type > of > > thing, please let me know. > > > > Thank you! > > > > Janet Erbach > > IT/Office Manager > > Natural Healthy Concepts > > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 29 15:25:31 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 13:25:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question In-Reply-To: References: <8A7C91413D87482EA2EFC485E00F979F@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4212BDA0E73B4ABF978E717FE30FB576@creativesystemdesigns.com> Keep me posted Janet. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 11:31 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question Jim - You're right about 'F11'. I use that all the time. I'll try you're suggestion about the autoexec...thank you! Janet On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi Janet: > > Without knowing more I would suspect that the main database window has its > x > and/or y coordinates set off the main viewing area. It is really there just > not visible. > > If you can get to create and edit a form then you also have access to the > other database objects by creating a event. Once event has been initiated > within the form, you are creating, you can then go and edit that event. > This > will expose all the other object in the MDB. (Do not quote me on this but > there is some old memory that says by pressing it will bring the main > database window into view.) > > Another thing you can do is check out what the macro autoexec does. Just go > and select the event section, in the form you have created but this time > instead of selecting an event select a macro and pick the "autoexec" macro. > Then go in and see if it is making some interest calls...turn them off if > need be. (Make sure all the tool bars are displayed etc...) > > PS: Make sure you have a backup of the anything you change. > > HTH > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > Jim - > > I've checked everything you mentioned - the form doesn't appear when I > display hidden and system objects, and there are no macros at all in this > 'holding tank' database. (The database is just a storage place; I use it > as a central holding point for all my custom objects and don't run any > active apps from within it.) It's as if the form falls off the face of > Access before it makes it into the database. Could this be a corruption > issue perhaps? I never thought of that until now... > > Janet > > On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 11:04 AM, Jim Lawrence wrote: > > > Hi Janet: > > > > If the tables are within the application they must be hidden as a > different > > named object. Check to see if all objects are being displayed (tools > > > options > view). > > > > Another trick is the move the database so far off the viewing area that > it > > is no longer visible...check as far right as possible. You can try and > > force > > the database to expose itself by attempting to link to it by running the > > link-manager etc... > > > > Check to see if there is an autoexec macro that does obscuring when the > DB > > is opened and then the Unhide command is turned off or the windows > display > > can be turned off via a API call...Anything can be done once a autoexec > > macro is run. > > > > Go into Tools > startup and make sure the option "Display Database > window" > > is checked. > > > > It is most likely one of these tricks to hide or obscure the database as > > getting too fancy with renaming can crash the system. > > > > One thing to check is if the Disable Shift Key option have been invoked > so > > just holding down the shift key when opening the DB will not allow you to > > gain access to the DB before the autoexec macro is run. There are a > number > > of little apps out there that can toggle this feature off and on. > > > > This of course is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg as there can be > > all > > sorts of protection schemes within the code to monitor changes in an > > objects > > properties. Some developers spend almost as long writing protection as > > writing the app and it can take even an experienced programmer a couple > of > > hours to remove. > > > > HTH > > > > Jim > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Janet Erbach > > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:12 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] 'Hidden' form question & Excel 2010 question > > > > Hello - > > > > I have 2 questions for you all. > > > > 1) We use a pre-packaged access application for order processing: I've > > created a number of custom forms and modules that I export to a > > 'customizations' data base and import into the main app whenever I > install > > it to a new machine. I have one form that seems to export successfully - > I > > get no error messages, anyway - but when I open up my 'customizations' > data > > base it can't be found. I've checked to see if it was somehow set to be > > hidden, and that's not the case either. I tried exporting it to a > > temporary > > data base, and it appeared there just fine. But I need it to go into > this > > 'customizations' data base, and it just won't go! What could be causing > > this? > > > > > > 2) Do any of you have any experience writing VB code for Excel 2010? A > > tech temp agency in our area is looking for someone with that kind of > > experience for a specific project; if any of you are game for that type > of > > thing, please let me know. > > > > Thank you! > > > > Janet Erbach > > IT/Office Manager > > Natural Healthy Concepts > > www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com > > 920.886.7500 * 866.505.7501 > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 30 10:29:27 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:29:27 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule Message-ID: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 30 10:30:04 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:30:04 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys rule Message-ID: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Wed Mar 30 10:41:51 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:41:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Sure do... they rule the 5th level of hell... ;) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 10:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 11:05:39 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:05:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: ...But where... in a museum? Sorry could not resist. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 8:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 11:53:06 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:53:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: siiiigghhhhhhh, and I thought I was converting him.... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jwcolby > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 8:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule > > > ;) > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 12:04:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:04:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Sometimes, but only in Access. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:29 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > ;) > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 12:05:05 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 10:05:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: Are you feeling like starting something this morning? Not that I disagree with you. I'm a firm surrogate key believer. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:30 AM, jwcolby wrote: > > ;) > > -- > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 30 12:15:37 2011 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (jwcolby) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 13:15:37 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Surrogate keys rule In-Reply-To: References: <4D934C7C.3090908@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: <4D936539.3020101@colbyconsulting.com> It's been quiet for days. ;) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com On 3/30/2011 1:05 PM, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Are you feeling like starting something this morning? Not that I > disagree with you. I'm a firm surrogate key believer. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 8:30 AM, jwcolby wrote: >> >> ;) >> >> -- >> John W. Colby >> www.ColbyConsulting.com >> -- >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 14:08:28 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 12:08:28 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi All: I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the question. On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and back on again the status field updates correctly. The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor some event within code to know that there has been a change to the form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be performed. So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be performed at this point. It does seem that this should be very simple. TIA Jim From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 14:18:44 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 14:18:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the right event Hi All: I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the question. On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and back on again the status field updates correctly. The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor some event within code to know that there has been a change to the form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be performed. So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be performed at this point. It does seem that this should be very simple. TIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 30 15:01:22 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 06:01:22 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: <4D938C12.15257.1D84FF4F@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> If Form 2 opened from Form 1? If so, open Form 2 as Modal and trigger the refresh immediately after the docmd.Openform "Form2"? -- Stuart On 30 Mar 2011 at 12:08, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Hi All: > > I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. > > I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the > question. > > On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. > Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in > form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and > back on again the status field updates correctly. > > The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor > some event within code to know that there has been a change to the > form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be > performed. > > So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to > form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be > performed at this point. > > It does seem that this should be very simple. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 18:51:53 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 16:51:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> References: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> Thanks for the help Jim and Stuart It was not as simple as initially planned but finally a hack that works: (Believe me, I tried ever other method first...and this is the only one that really works.) '1. Turn off display '2. Set focus to the calling form '3. Save current record position on calling form '4. Set field in calling form to required value '5. Force update to calling form by 'refreshing' record source '6. Position back to appropriate calling form record '7. set focus to modular form '8. Turn on display Dim bolStatusFlag Dim lngInvoiceID As Long Dim rs As Object bolStatusFlag = Me.Closed Application.Echo False [Forms]![Invoice Header].SetFocus lngInvoiceID = [Forms]![Invoice Header].[InvoiceID] ' Set one field... [Forms]![Invoice Header].[Work Description].Locked = bolStatusFlag [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordSource = "Invoice Open" Set rs = [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordsetClone rs.FindFirst "[InvoiceID] = " & lngInvoiceID If Not rs.EOF Then [Forms]![Invoice Header].Bookmark = rs.Bookmark Me.SetFocus Application.Echo True Hope this helps somebody. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right event Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the right event Hi All: I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the question. On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and back on again the status field updates correctly. The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor some event within code to know that there has been a change to the form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be performed. So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be performed at this point. It does seem that this should be very simple. TIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 30 19:03:13 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:03:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: , <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com>, <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <4D93C4C1.5764.1E626D90@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Do you need Form 1 visible when Form 2 is activated? I frequently only let my users see one form at a time. If they don't need to see it, I would just hide Form 1 when Form 2 is opened and unhide it when form 2 is closed rather than turning Echo off. On 30 Mar 2011 at 16:51, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Thanks for the help Jim and Stuart > > It was not as simple as initially planned but finally a hack that > works: (Believe me, I tried ever other method first...and this is the > only one that really works.) > > '1. Turn off display > '2. Set focus to the calling form > '3. Save current record position on calling form > '4. Set field in calling form to required value > '5. Force update to calling form by 'refreshing' record source > '6. Position back to appropriate calling form record > '7. set focus to modular form > '8. Turn on display > > Dim bolStatusFlag > Dim lngInvoiceID As Long > Dim rs As Object > > bolStatusFlag = Me.Closed > > Application.Echo False > [Forms]![Invoice Header].SetFocus > > lngInvoiceID = [Forms]![Invoice Header].[InvoiceID] > > ' Set one field... > [Forms]![Invoice Header].[Work Description].Locked = bolStatusFlag > > [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordSource = "Invoice Open" > > Set rs = [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordsetClone > rs.FindFirst "[InvoiceID] = " & lngInvoiceID > If Not rs.EOF Then [Forms]![Invoice Header].Bookmark = rs.Bookmark > > Me.SetFocus > Application.Echo True > > > Hope this helps somebody. ;-) > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right > event > > Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the > right event > > Hi All: > > I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. > > I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the > question. > > On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. > Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in > form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and > back on again the status field updates correctly. > > The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor > some event within code to know that there has been a change to the > form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be > performed. > > So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to > form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be > performed at this point. > > It does seem that this should be very simple. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From df.waters at comcast.net Wed Mar 30 19:05:53 2011 From: df.waters at comcast.net (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:05:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> Good Luck! By the time you're done with this we'll know who to ask about Access Reporting! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Dan, et al. The issue is the report. The original report was quite complex. There are 19 question types, which means a section could be all one type or a combination of several types. The original report had sub-reports for each type and when printed would unhide and expand the appropriate sub-report. The 20th sub-report is a complex report that has a sub-report for each question type. When the report is printed the sub-reports would unhide and expand as needed. Sometimes a sub-report could be used two or more times in different sequences to create a section. The section with more than one question type I call "various" because of various types of questions. The first 3 sections of the questionnaire have various questions. For example, Q1 is a 3-response question with custom responses, Q2 is a fill-in question, Q3 is a 5-response question with custom response, Q4 is self-lookup question with a combo box, Q4 is a two response question with custom response, etc. I separated the first report and made 20 different reports. So when printing, it cycles through the reports and prints them as needed. I have found that to able to print the entire questionnaire, I need to print each section in succession because each section is a different report. If I open the print menu by-itself the entire questionnaire prints. If I "log in" as a researcher, I get the same problem when it attempts to print the second section report. I'm getting closer to solving this conundrum. But, I'm sure where to go from here. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jm.hwsn at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 19:41:48 2011 From: jm.hwsn at gmail.com (jm.hwsn) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:41:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net><4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> Message-ID: <848BE0580B2347C0BA0F2A6CC4EF1F88@HomePC> Thanks, I'm not so sure about being the one to ask about reports. In frustration of not being able to get it done. I've moved on to something else to give the grey matter a rest on the issue. Maybe in a day or two with "fresh" eyes I'll see something. We'll see. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Good Luck! By the time you're done with this we'll know who to ask about Access Reporting! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:32 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Dan, et al. The issue is the report. The original report was quite complex. There are 19 question types, which means a section could be all one type or a combination of several types. The original report had sub-reports for each type and when printed would unhide and expand the appropriate sub-report. The 20th sub-report is a complex report that has a sub-report for each question type. When the report is printed the sub-reports would unhide and expand as needed. Sometimes a sub-report could be used two or more times in different sequences to create a section. The section with more than one question type I call "various" because of various types of questions. The first 3 sections of the questionnaire have various questions. For example, Q1 is a 3-response question with custom responses, Q2 is a fill-in question, Q3 is a 5-response question with custom response, Q4 is self-lookup question with a combo box, Q4 is a two response question with custom response, etc. I separated the first report and made 20 different reports. So when printing, it cycles through the reports and prints them as needed. I have found that to able to print the entire questionnaire, I need to print each section in succession because each section is a different report. If I open the print menu by-itself the entire questionnaire prints. If I "log in" as a researcher, I get the same problem when it attempts to print the second section report. I'm getting closer to solving this conundrum. But, I'm sure where to go from here. Thanks, Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 10:21 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Printing Issue Hi Jim - good description! I'm going to guess that the problem may not be the form, but the way the report is being called from the user interface, or the report itself. Try: 1) Create a backup copy of the report. 2) Create a new completely blank report with the same name, and try printing it from the user interface. If the user interface can print this blank report, then the report is the issue. 3) If the report is simple, rebuild it from scratch but don't copy any controls or code from the original report. 4) Otherwise, eliminate code and controls from the report one by one to see what the issue is. Start by commenting out all code on the report. Also, if you have code which sets the recordset for the report, put that code into a separate procedure and call that procedure from both your form and the user interface. This will eliminate differences that might be happening when you open the report from two different places. Also, in the code IDE under Tools | Options | General, set Error Trapping to Break on All Errors - might help while you're debugging. Also, be sure that you don't have any extra Access processes running when you are debugging. HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 9:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue Sorry this is so long. Access 2007, Windows XP I have a complex database with 71 tables, 450 queries, 118 forms, 58 reports and 195 modules. This database is self contained, there are no linked tables except when I temporarily link to an Excel spreadsheet to import data. It is a psychological questionnaire which will be used by a training organization to assist with lowering the attrition rate for their students. When fully deployed there will be approximately 450 students (every 2 or 3 months) answering the questionnaire and getting feedback on their strengths and improvement areas. I have four levels of security: student, cadre (instructors, supervisors, unit administrator, researcher, researcher admin and IT admin). Everything works except for one thing. In the researcher and above levels, I have a pop-up form to print the questionnaire. When I attempt to print I get an ambiguous response: "Microsoft Office Access has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I click "don't send" it shuts down, creates a new copy and opens the new copy. If I open the form by itself, the report prints as it should. If I use the user interface to open the report I get the above message. >From the splash screen, a login form (which stays open all the time) is opened and is used to determine the security level of the user. The appropriate user interface is then opened. On the Researcher interface a button opens the print menu form. The questionnaire consists of several sections. Each section could have several different types of questions (different sub forms) or it could be one type of question. Each section has a separate report. The current questionnaire has 13 active sections. It's designed to have a maximum of 20. In the code behind the print button, I open a record set, and loop through each section and then print the appropriate report. What I've tried to solve the problem: Changed the record set from a saved query to a SQL string Decompiled - recompiled Compacted and repaired. Created a new database and imported all the objects from the old one and then reconfigured the new file. Created a new database and imported all objects except the offending form. compacted/repaired.. Decompiled/compiled. imported a copy of the form. Deleted the form from the database and imported a copy from a previous version I'm at a loss as to what to try next. Any suggestions? MTIA Jim -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 19:47:52 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 17:47:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Printing Issue In-Reply-To: <848BE0580B2347C0BA0F2A6CC4EF1F88@HomePC> References: <4d8caa99.4d3eec0a.3607.2e40@mx.google.com> <001201cbeb00$513f6e70$f3be4b50$@comcast.net> <4d90e236.1236640a.7fdd.5664@mx.google.com> <007201cbef37$672d8fb0$3588af10$@comcast.net> <848BE0580B2347C0BA0F2A6CC4EF1F88@HomePC> Message-ID: Reports with nested subreports can be quite a problem in Access AND in .Net. You can use subreport controls that are not bound to a particular dataset (no master/child links set). That allows you to control which subreports are presented and what the criteria is from code in the parent report/subreport. It isn't simple, but it does get around the problems of all the layers of queries that are run when you process a bound report with nested subs. You also have to be very careful about which event you use, since some of them occur too late to serve any purpose. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 5:41 PM, jm.hwsn wrote: > Thanks, I'm not so sure about being the one to ask about reports. > In frustration of not being able to get it done. > I've moved on to something else to give the grey matter a rest on the issue. > Maybe in a day or two with "fresh" eyes I'll see something. > We'll see. > Thanks, > Jim > From dbdoug at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 21:58:46 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 19:58:46 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Message-ID: I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Wed Mar 30 22:06:24 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:06:24 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103310306.p2V36YDm016658@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Stuart McLachlan posted a link warning of this issue on here back in Late Feb, Early March. I am sure the thread below has grown since then, but it was well worth a read back then. '--- copy of email ---- It seems that if you are using ADO and compile under Win7 SP1, your application may no longer work on previous Winodws versions :-( <> '---- End copy ----- cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, 31 March 2011 1:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Wed Mar 30 22:08:59 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 20:08:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 30 23:07:23 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:07:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4D93FDFB.32424.1F41F7AA@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> The other gotcha is if you are using references to 32 bit DLLs. where you may be runing on Oiffice 32bit and 64bit You have to do check the version and use PtrSafe something like this: #If VBA7 Then Declare PtrSafe Function GetUserName Lib "advapi32.dll" Alias "GetUserNameA" (ByVal lpBuffer As String, nSize As Long) As Long #Else Declare Function GetUserName Lib "advapi32.dll" Alias "GetUserNameA" (ByVal lpBuffer As String, nSize As Long) As Long #End If -- Stuart On 30 Mar 2011 at 20:08, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are > being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because > backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we > can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to > watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. > > Charlotte Foust > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had > written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has > been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message > indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of > a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I > putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to > work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also > a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn > Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 > SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m > running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time > to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 30 23:52:34 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 21:52:34 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] find the right event In-Reply-To: <4D93C4C1.5764.1E626D90@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: <4d938217.254b640a.1049.188f@mx.google.com> <5FDF801642FC4BB7863733E69B530270@creativesystemdesigns.com> <4D93C4C1.5764.1E626D90@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: No, Form 1 or the caller form stays invisible and the display was turned off so the screen wouldn't flash when moving from form to form...even if the form is invisible there is a small screen shimmer when processing unless the echo is stopped. I tend to be a little overly fussy about these thing. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right event Do you need Form 1 visible when Form 2 is activated? I frequently only let my users see one form at a time. If they don't need to see it, I would just hide Form 1 when Form 2 is opened and unhide it when form 2 is closed rather than turning Echo off. On 30 Mar 2011 at 16:51, Jim Lawrence wrote: > Thanks for the help Jim and Stuart > > It was not as simple as initially planned but finally a hack that > works: (Believe me, I tried ever other method first...and this is the > only one that really works.) > > '1. Turn off display > '2. Set focus to the calling form > '3. Save current record position on calling form > '4. Set field in calling form to required value > '5. Force update to calling form by 'refreshing' record source > '6. Position back to appropriate calling form record > '7. set focus to modular form > '8. Turn on display > > Dim bolStatusFlag > Dim lngInvoiceID As Long > Dim rs As Object > > bolStatusFlag = Me.Closed > > Application.Echo False > [Forms]![Invoice Header].SetFocus > > lngInvoiceID = [Forms]![Invoice Header].[InvoiceID] > > ' Set one field... > [Forms]![Invoice Header].[Work Description].Locked = bolStatusFlag > > [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordSource = "Invoice Open" > > Set rs = [Forms]![Invoice Header].RecordsetClone > rs.FindFirst "[InvoiceID] = " & lngInvoiceID > If Not rs.EOF Then [Forms]![Invoice Header].Bookmark = rs.Bookmark > > Me.SetFocus > Application.Echo True > > > Hope this helps somebody. ;-) > > Jim > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jm.hwsn > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 12:19 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] find the right > event > > Why not requery Form ONE when the status field on Form TWO is toggled/ > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim > Lawrence Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 2:08 PM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] find the > right event > > Hi All: > > I have just been given the project to update an Access database 2003. > > I am a little foggy on some of the methods and event so here is the > question. > > On form TWO a status field is toggled and then the form is closed. > Form ONE, which was already open also has the same status field as in > form TWO. Note: If you move off the current record, on form ONE, and > back on again the status field updates correctly. > > The issue is that I would like to have some way or be able to monitor > some event within code to know that there has been a change to the > form recordsource/record so the appropriate requery/refresh can be > performed. > > So far I have found no form event that is triggered upon focus back to > form ONE other than the Activate event but no programmed action can be > performed at this point. > > It does seem that this should be very simple. > > TIA > Jim > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 00:01:54 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2011 22:01:54 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <488C6622A8F54A808D4E7AA886981C89@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Doug: Good one... Another good reason to keep that old XP box around so you can support your XP using clients... of which I have many. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 7:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com Thu Mar 31 08:05:42 2011 From: Lambert.Heenan at chartisinsurance.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:05:42 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just the same as Joe average is being pressured to switch to Windows 7 just to run IE9. It's all about M$ revenue. Lambert -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 11:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 09:42:56 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:42:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 09:46:30 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:46:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Speaking of the .Net world.... I ran into something the other day in VB.Net In VB 6 (or VBA) if I had a custom class, let's say like this: Public SomeStringProperty As String Dim intSomeNumericValue as Long Property Get SomeNumericValue() as Long SomeNumericValue=intSomeNumericValue End Property I considered both 'SomeStringProperty' and 'SomeNumericValue' as properties of the class. VB.Net does not. If it is defined with a Public variablename As SomeType VB.Net considers it a 'field'. Interesting. Not that it makes a whole hell of a difference now that I know, it drove me nuts while trying to put the 'properties' of a class into a combo box, and couldn't for the life of me figure why it kept returning an empty array! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 10:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Developers who actually used ADO (yes, there were a few of us) are being pushed kicking and screaming into the .Net world. Just because backwards compatibility used to be a Microsoft byword, doesn't mean we can depend on that any more. With Windows 7, especially, you have to watch out for older apps that won't run properly in that environment. Charlotte Foust On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Doug Steele wrote: > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written > using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working > for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO > wasn't working. ?Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and > I didn't get a screen dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the > references and re-compiling, and got it to work. ?Turns out that this > is probably an example of a known problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in > the LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, > an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running > Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 11:30:18 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 09:30:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 12:33:18 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:33:18 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Message-ID: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> Wait, are you calling Drew a turkey??? Charlotte Foust Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Jim Lawrence wrote: >Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) > >Jim > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work >just fine...... > >Web Front End.... > >;) > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele >Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written >using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working >for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO >wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and >I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the >references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this >is probably an example of a known problem: > >http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > >There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in >the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, >an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running >Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. >I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the >problem. > >I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > >Doug >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >person or entity >to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >Business >Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >the sender >immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or >hard copy. >You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >dissemination, >or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information >by persons >or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 12:42:52 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:42:52 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? Message-ID: Dear List: A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for the new matter. No problem. But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. Anyway, can this be done? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 31 12:47:29 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:47:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Hi Doug, Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running ADO is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on W7SP1? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 12:55:38 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 10:55:38 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Message-ID: Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:09:32 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:09:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: I believe so, from reading the discussions. I was able fix the problem by removing the ADO reference on the client machine, compiling (got errors on missing reference) then reinstating the reference and compiling once more. I'm not sure if the first compile step does anything, but it doesn't do any harm. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, > and got it to work. ?Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:17:57 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:17:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: Sorry, I mis-read your post. I just tried running the fixed client version (compiled on W7 no SP1) on my computer (W7SP1) without re-compiling and it ran correctly without any errors. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. ?Some code that I had written using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. ?I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, > and got it to work. ?Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. ?If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dbdoug at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:21:24 2011 From: dbdoug at gmail.com (Doug Steele) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:21:24 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional > setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the > date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional settings on my box to > U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, > tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND > DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date > is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different syntax for > this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 13:21:28 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:21:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your desktop. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? Dear List: A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for the new matter. No problem. But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. Anyway, can this be done? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From bill_patten at embarqmail.com Thu Mar 31 13:27:20 2011 From: bill_patten at embarqmail.com (Bill Patten) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:27:20 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> Message-ID: <298669879D2F41AAB1033D9EDD42ED74@BPCS> I am having similar problems with 2 clients. I just moved an ADP Access 2003 from my development machine (Win7 64 SP1 ) to an XP machine, decompiled it, set the reference to activex 2.6 from 2.7 recompiled, repair and compacted and shipped it. It now works on one machine that it did not work on. They will let me know later about the other machines as people start to use the application. What is really strange it always worked on some of their machines and we were not able to find any differences in versions or references. The second client is running it on Windows Server 2003. I have access to it using LogMeIn so will experiment tonight to see if changing the active x reference, or decompile compile on an XP machine or both fixes it. Many other people seem to be removing SP 1 from their development machines, but I'd rather not go backwards, course I've been known to cut off my nose to spite my face. If I learn anything new tonight I'll let you all know. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug Steele" Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:09 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I believe so, from reading the discussions. I was able fix the problem by removing the ADO reference on the client machine, compiling (got errors on missing reference) then reinstating the reference and compiling once more. I'm not sure if the first compile step does anything, but it doesn't do any harm. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running > ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written > using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and > re-compiling, > and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 13:29:41 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:29:41 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Aha! Thank you. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can it be done? Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your desktop. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? Dear List: A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for the new matter. No problem. But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. Anyway, can this be done? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 13:34:32 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:34:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 13:37:11 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:37:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Actually, when it comes to a web interfaced app, using an .mdb for a backend is just fine. There are only a few times where I would actually recommend a SQL Server Backend: Size limitation. Needs to have another non-web based front end. Needs triggers. Other than that, an .mdb is just fine. Uses less over head, can run just as fast, if not faster, etc. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 13:40:04 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 22:40:04 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 13:49:31 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 11:49:31 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 14:08:17 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:08:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> References: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> Message-ID: Ever tangled with a turkey? ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Wait, are you calling Drew a turkey??? Charlotte Foust Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Jim Lawrence wrote: >Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) > >Jim > > > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From jimdettman at verizon.net Thu Mar 31 14:19:56 2011 From: jimdettman at verizon.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:19:56 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Message-ID: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two e-mails for each post. Jim. From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 14:22:55 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:22:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? In-Reply-To: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> References: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Message-ID: We're just trying to make sure you read what's important! ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:20 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two e-mails for each post. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From garykjos at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 14:37:05 2011 From: garykjos at gmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:37:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? In-Reply-To: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> References: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Message-ID: No. Not me. No. Not me. Thought I would save time answering them both. ;-) GK On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Jim Dettman wrote: > Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? > > Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two > e-mails for each post. > > Jim. > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Gary Kjos garykjos at gmail.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 15:54:14 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 13:54:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> References: <3ps5yvvf039tpeelkj3sovvo.1301592770686@email.android.com> Message-ID: <82074F87D17547B884F8B5DEF0F70515@creativesystemdesigns.com> Does he look like a turkey to you? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 10:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Wait, are you calling Drew a turkey??? Charlotte Foust Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Jim Lawrence wrote: >Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) > >Jim > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka >Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work >just fine...... > >Web Front End.... > >;) > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele >Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > >I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written >using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working >for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO >wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and >I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the >references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this >is probably an example of a known problem: > >http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > >There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in >the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, >an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running >Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. >I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the >problem. > >I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > >Doug >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the >person or entity >to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI >Business >Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact >the sender >immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or >hard copy. >You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, >dissemination, >or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information >by persons >or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 31 15:59:14 2011 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:59:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? In-Reply-To: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> References: <1811C9AE36004296A41556B9D0CEEF5D@LaptopII> Message-ID: <000001cbefe6$7ed64800$7c82d800$@winhaven.net> Hi Jim, Please contact Bryan off-list and see if he can help you through this: carbonnb at gmail.com John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:20 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Anyone else getting to copies of e-mails sent to the list? Ever since that spam problem a week or so ago, I've been receiving two e-mails for each post. Jim. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 16:00:33 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:00:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <298669879D2F41AAB1033D9EDD42ED74@BPCS> References: <00aa01cbefcb$b4d6b2c0$1e841840$@winhaven.net> <298669879D2F41AAB1033D9EDD42ED74@BPCS> Message-ID: <3DC08DF7E4AF4E8E82B48E9BA91BD48A@creativesystemdesigns.com> I have to do that with a number of clients. Upload the source, remove the references, re-add the reference and then compile...two passes usually solves the issues. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bill Patten Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:27 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I am having similar problems with 2 clients. I just moved an ADP Access 2003 from my development machine (Win7 64 SP1 ) to an XP machine, decompiled it, set the reference to activex 2.6 from 2.7 recompiled, repair and compacted and shipped it. It now works on one machine that it did not work on. They will let me know later about the other machines as people start to use the application. What is really strange it always worked on some of their machines and we were not able to find any differences in versions or references. The second client is running it on Windows Server 2003. I have access to it using LogMeIn so will experiment tonight to see if changing the active x reference, or decompile compile on an XP machine or both fixes it. Many other people seem to be removing SP 1 from their development machines, but I'd rather not go backwards, course I've been known to cut off my nose to spite my face. If I learn anything new tonight I'll let you all know. Bill -------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug Steele" Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:09 AM To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I believe so, from reading the discussions. I was able fix the problem by removing the ADO reference on the client machine, compiling (got errors on missing reference) then reinstating the reference and compiling once more. I'm not sure if the first compile step does anything, but it doesn't do any harm. Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:47 AM, John Bartow wrote: > Hi Doug, > Just for clarification purposes, if the compiled access database running > ADO > is compiled on anything older than W7SP1 does it still work correctly on > W7SP1? > > John B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! > > I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written > using > ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 > years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. > Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen > dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and > re-compiling, > and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known > problem: > > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 > > There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the > LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access > database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 > will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. > I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the > problem. > > I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... > > Doug > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 16:14:45 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:14:45 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: <306D1109AFF8409ABCC85B353B18FDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Hi Drew: I have never had any bad experiences from an Access BE web site but according to one of the trainers from Wintellect, a Microsoft bases training company, from which I took a week of lecture course, a few years ago, at Redmond; he said the an Access BE was very dangerous because it was prone to insertion attacked. He said he could hack any Access BE in 5 minutes. Whether that was true or not I have no idea but I have never used an Access BE, for a web site, since. On a pinch I have used MySQL and now MS SQL Express when no major SQL DB BE is available. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Actually, when it comes to a web interfaced app, using an .mdb for a backend is just fine. There are only a few times where I would actually recommend a SQL Server Backend: Size limitation. Needs to have another non-web based front end. Needs triggers. Other than that, an .mdb is just fine. Uses less over head, can run just as fast, if not faster, etc. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 16:20:08 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 14:20:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: PS: It is interseting as a Redmond training seminar is starting at the MS college at the end of May and Wintellect will be the teachers. http://view.exacttarget.com/?j=fe5d1572706c0d787615&m=ff001675756503&ls=fe32 11737763047a751170&l=feef11747c610d&s=fe961173716c047875&jb=ffcf14&ju=fe2f15 717265047b7c1271 I believe Jeffrey Richter was the trainers who warned against an Access BE so you can always pop him an email and ask hime why and how. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:37 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Actually, when it comes to a web interfaced app, using an .mdb for a backend is just fine. There are only a few times where I would actually recommend a SQL Server Backend: Size limitation. Needs to have another non-web based front end. Needs triggers. Other than that, an .mdb is just fine. Uses less over head, can run just as fast, if not faster, etc. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:30 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Just put a nice "real" SQL BE and now you are talking turkey. ;-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Drew Wutka Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 7:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I'm willing to bet that 95% of the things I wrote using ADO will work just fine...... Web Front End.... ;) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 9:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! I had a call from a client this morning. Some code that I had written using ADO to write records to a back end, code which has been working for 2 or 3 years, was crashing with a message indicating that ADO wasn't working. Unfortunately, it was a bit of a panic situation and I didn't get a screen dump of the message. I putzed around with the references and re-compiling, and got it to work. Turns out that this is probably an example of a known problem: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2517589 There is also a discussion (well, a bunch of bitching) about this in the LinkedIn Access Developers group. If I understand it correctly, an Access database using ADO which is compiled on a computer running Windows 7 SP1 will NOT run properly on any other version of Windows. I`m running Win7 SP1 and my client is Win7, so I guess this was the problem. I wonder if I can send an invoice for my debugging time to Microsoft... Doug -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 16:24:10 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:24:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! In-Reply-To: <306D1109AFF8409ABCC85B353B18FDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> References: <87E02C55DEBD4D0593EDFDDAD664B44D@creativesystemdesigns.com> <306D1109AFF8409ABCC85B353B18FDE3@creativesystemdesigns.com> Message-ID: Hmmm, I would be curious as to how that is done. Actually, the SQL Insertion issue is due to SQL code having comment capabilities, and Access SQL doesn't allow comments. Plus, for this kind of vulnerability, your code has to literally use client created data directly in an SQL statement, which is a bad habit no matter what database you are using. I am curious as to how the .mdb would be setup to allow an 'insertion attack'. In the web interfaces I have designed, the backend is not visible in any way, except for the pages I create. Part one of that is to NOT have the .mdb in a visible location on the webserver. It is accessible to IIS, but not the user. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Using ADO and Windows 7 SP1? Be careful! Hi Drew: I have never had any bad experiences from an Access BE web site but according to one of the trainers from Wintellect, a Microsoft bases training company, from which I took a week of lecture course, a few years ago, at Redmond; he said the an Access BE was very dangerous because it was prone to insertion attacked. He said he could hack any Access BE in 5 minutes. Whether that was true or not I have no idea but I have never used an Access BE, for a web site, since. On a pinch I have used MySQL and now MS SQL Express when no major SQL DB BE is available. Jim The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 16:36:42 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 07:36:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: <4D94F3EA.16525.2302A4BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Wouldn't that make every other form in the same application topmost as well? On 31 Mar 2011 at 13:21, Drew Wutka wrote: > Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do > this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are > subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than > regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will > put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the > ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access > window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your > desktop. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? > > Dear List: > > A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time > keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various > clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer > changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and > starts running the clock for the new matter. > > No problem. > > But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer > is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch > their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to > go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen > windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I > guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd > want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the > phone - things like that. > > Anyway, can this be done? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at Marlow.com Thu Mar 31 16:40:02 2011 From: DWUTKA at Marlow.com (Drew Wutka) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:40:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: <4D94F3EA.16525.2302A4BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> References: , <4D94F3EA.16525.2302A4BE@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Message-ID: Yes, but only if they were open and set as 'popup'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can it be done? Wouldn't that make every other form in the same application topmost as well? On 31 Mar 2011 at 13:21, Drew Wutka wrote: > Yes, I'm sending you my 'always on top' demo off list. You can do > this with a timer, which is ugly, and pointless. Access forms are > subclassed windows, which make them act a little different than > regular windows. For a regular window, setting the ZOrder to -1 will > put it on top of other windows. With an access form, you set the > ZOrder to -1 for the Access window itself, and then hide the Access > window. Then the visible 'popup' form is on top of everything on your > desktop. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 12:43 PM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? > > Dear List: > > A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time > keeping form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various > clients and legal matters. So when they click a button, the timer > changes from the current matter to the one assigned to that button and > starts running the clock for the new matter. > > No problem. > > But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer > is working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch > their timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to > go back to the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen > windows open and finding the access app would be awkward for them. I > guess if a lawyer is working on a matter and the phone rings they'd > want to change the timer from the current matter to the one on the > phone - things like that. > > Anyway, can this be done? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > The information contained in this transmission is intended only for > the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI > Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not > the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and > destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. > You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, > dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance > upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is prohibited. > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com The information contained in this transmission is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain II-VI Proprietary and/or II-VI Business Sensitive material. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and destroy the material in its entirety, whether electronic or hard copy. You are notified that any review, retransmission, copying, disclosure, dissemination, or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 16:40:52 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 07:40:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> References: , , <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> Message-ID: <4D94F4E4.2878.2306749A@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> You need make the Format "mm/dd/yy" not "dd/mm/yy" But I generally do it like this instead: DueDate >=DateValue("' & txtGEDueDate & "') AND .... -- Stuart On 31 Mar 2011 at 11:34, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to > mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table > using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various > filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I > send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume > from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is > dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. > and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO > tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) > SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to > filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of > the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in > tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why > doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax > for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 16:58:24 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 01:58:24 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 17:39:59 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:39:59 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: That is, unless the backend may be SQL Server, in which case, the delimiter is a single quote. We used to run into that issue in .Net, so we built a function to return the date string formatted with the correct delimiter depending on which database was in use. Easy enough to create a function to format any date to US format as well. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Rocky -- > Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be > enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... > From charlotte.foust at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 17:41:06 2011 From: charlotte.foust at gmail.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:41:06 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Can it be done? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: He's trying to reinvent all the timer programs already on the market. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:42 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > A client - has a law firm - wants a pop up form on an existing time keeping > form with ten buttons that would be assigned to various clients and legal > matters. ?So when they click a button, the timer changes from the current > matter to the one assigned to that button and starts running the clock for > the new matter. > > No problem. > > But he says he also wants that pop up form to be on top when a lawyer is > working on a word doc or other application so that they can switch their > timekeeping clock from one matter to another without having to go back to > the access app to do it since they may have 10 or fifteen windows open and > finding the access app would be awkward for them. ?I guess if a lawyer is > working on a matter and the phone rings they'd want to change the timer from > the current matter to the one on the phone - things like that. > > Anyway, can this be done? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 17:41:57 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 02:41:57 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter References: Message-ID: Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Mar 31 18:00:48 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:00:48 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> Message-ID: <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Rocky, To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:03:08 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:03:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: Shamil: When I create those SQL strings I usually load them into a text box on the form before I execute them so I can see what it looks like and copy it out to a query if I need to run it. Stuart suggest DateValue. Better or worse than Format? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ab-mi at post3.tele.dk Thu Mar 31 18:05:08 2011 From: ab-mi at post3.tele.dk (Asger Blond) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 01:05:08 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Bound forms rule In-Reply-To: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> References: <4D934C57.9040203@colbyconsulting.com> Message-ID: If supposed to be a poll then: Bound form - no & yes (depends) Surrogate keys - yes (always) Asger -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] P? vegne af jwcolby Sendt: 30. marts 2011 17:29 Til: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Emne: [AccessD] Bound forms rule ;) -- John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:06:22 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:06:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davidmcafee at gmail.com Thu Mar 31 18:07:33 2011 From: davidmcafee at gmail.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:07:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Actually I think it is the Japanese that got it right with YYYYMMDD On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I > process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory > the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, > regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of > "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date > format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and > adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of > the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, > tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND > DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in > the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > Dear List: > > > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional > > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records > with no date filtering. > > > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. > > > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > > > Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different > > syntax for this filter? > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is > intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any > review, > retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in > reliance > upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is > prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete > this e-mail > and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or > distribute > the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the > permission > of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > > _______________________________________________________________________________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Mar 31 18:20:40 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:20:40 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Rocky, Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to align like this you get around the regional issues. '========================================= iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") iM = Format(Now(), "mm") iD = Format(Now(), "dd") dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) gstrSQL = vbnullstring gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" ' do what ever here with gstrSQL '========================================= -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 18:38:43 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 09:38:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> References: , <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D951083.4367.23725895@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> Or you can replace your entire code example with: gstrSQL = "SELECT" & _ " pk_lngFYPID" & _ " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" & _ " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" & _ " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" & _ " WHERE dteCalDate = Date()" or if you want a variable date: dteMyDate = Date() gstrSQL = "SELECT" & _ " pk_lngFYPID" & _ " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" & _ " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" & _ " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" & _ " WHERE dteCalDate = DateValue('" & dteMyDate & "')" On 1 Apr 2011 at 10:20, Darryl Collins wrote: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > > Rocky, > > Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to > align like this you get around the regional issues. > > '========================================= > > iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") > iM = Format(Now(), "mm") > iD = Format(Now(), "dd") > > dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) > > gstrSQL = vbnullstring > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" > gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" > > ' do what ever here with gstrSQL > > '========================================= > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Shamil: > > I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the > text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Un-American Date Filter > > Rocky -- > > <<>> I should have > written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to > convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it > could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer > as in this case: > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 > > when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result > was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't > conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of > April 1st, 2011... > > And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both > results are "correct": > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 > > I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which > is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) > should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on > systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your > system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get > CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't > know what happens "behind the curtains" > > On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale > you'll get opposite to my first sample results: > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 > > And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using > system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's > textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... > > Hope that helps. > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] > Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Hi Rocky -- > > <<< > IT'S WORKING!!! > >>> > Great! > > <<< > Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. > >>> > Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's > criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression > string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? > > I haven't seen your code but from your description using > > Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") > > should be enough, while using > > CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) > > could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" > (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from > its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate > window: > > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 > > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), > "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 > ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), > "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 > > Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should > be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... > > Thank you. > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Shamil: > > I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S > WORKING!!! > > I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). > Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Thank you one and all. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil > Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access > Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] > Un-American Date Filter > > Rocky -- > > SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code > SQL expression should be: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# > > -- > Shamil > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion > and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as > dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:44:48 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:44:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Rocky, To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 18:47:48 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 16:47:48 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: Clever. That goes in the library. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Rocky, Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to align like this you get around the regional issues. '========================================= iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") iM = Format(Now(), "mm") iD = Format(Now(), "dd") dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) gstrSQL = vbnullstring gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" ' do what ever here with gstrSQL '========================================= -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 19:07:30 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 10:07:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005>, <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com>, Message-ID: <4D951742.9055.238CB2F4@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> I remember when New Zealand went metric with its currency back in the '70s. A friend was going overseas and was told by another friend that we were changing over to metric time next and was asked if could he bring back a metric watch. -- Stuart On 31 Mar 2011 at 16:44, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date > I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from > memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as > default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land > of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper > date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were > right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life > for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to > mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table > using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various > filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I > send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume > from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is > dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. > and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date > filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to > filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of > the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in > tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why > doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax > for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au Thu Mar 31 19:08:48 2011 From: Darryl.Collins at iag.com.au (Darryl Collins) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 11:08:48 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <201104010008.p3108tCf004748@databaseadvisors.com> _______________________________________________________________________________________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. _______________________________________________________________________________________ hahahaha! - Nah, just having a rant about the perils of the crazy imperial measurement that the US still uses. I actually agree with David (and the Japanese). "YYYYMMDD" makes the most sense of all, well to me at least. cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Hi Rocky, To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) cheers Darryl. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Doug: When I change the code to "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" And "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" the sql statement still comes out: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# And still no date filtering. R -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky: I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc Doug On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _______________________________________________________________________________________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. _______________________________________________________________________________________ From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 19:31:37 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:31:37 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> References: <201103312320.p2VNKl7U009190@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <600980DF5A124F1196B53B3C97844B0F@nant> Darryl -- <<< gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" >>> It will not work properly - you have to use it this way: gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & Format(dteNow,"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#))" Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Collins Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:21 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of this message. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ Rocky, Here is an example of how I use it. If find be forcing all dates to align like this you get around the regional issues. '========================================= iY = Format(Now(), "yyyy") iM = Format(Now(), "mm") iD = Format(Now(), "dd") dteNow = DateSerial(iY, iM, iD) gstrSQL = vbnullstring gstrSQL = gstrSQL & "SELECT" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " pk_lngFYPID" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " FROM ITPMO_tblCalander_FYP" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " INNER JOIN ITPMO_tblCalander_All" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " ON (pk_lngFYPID = fk_lngFYPID)" gstrSQL = gstrSQL & " WHERE (((dteCalDate) = #" & dteNow & "#))" ' do what ever here with gstrSQL '========================================= -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:06 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and any attached files, with the permission of the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 31 19:29:41 2011 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2011 10:29:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <201104010008.p3108tCf004748@databaseadvisors.com> References: , <201104010008.p3108tCf004748@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <4D951C75.28793.23A10355@stuart.lexacorp.com.pg> It's not just Japanese, it's the internationally accepted standard in ISO 8601. Unfortunately the UScentric developers of Access and SQL Server ignore the international standard and use an internationally ambiguous format instead. -- Stuart On 1 Apr 2011 at 11:08, Darryl Collins wrote: > hahahaha! - Nah, just having a rant about the perils of the crazy > imperial measurement that the US still uses. I actually agree with > David (and the Japanese). "YYYYMMDD" makes the most sense of all, > well to me at least. > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 10:45 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Metric dates...hmm... 10 days per week, then? > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Darryl > Collins Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:01 PM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom > of this message. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date > I process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from > memory the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as > default, regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land > of "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper > date format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were > right and adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life > for the rest of the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM To: 'Access Developers > discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American > Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM To: Access Developers > discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date > Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to > mm/dd/yy in the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > Dear List: > > I create a temp table > using a SQL statement I construct in code to > incorporate various > filter - one of which is a date filter. > > Works well here but when I > send it to the user in Bahrain who's > regional setting is (I assume > from the screen shot he sent) English > U.K. where the date format is > dd/mm/yyyy it fails. ?I set my regional > settings on my box to U.K. > and sure enough it fails - returns all > records with no date > filtering. > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand ?WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > which is supposed to > filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > Date is outside of > the range March 31 to April 7. ?But it don't. > > When I look in > tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > Why > doesn't this work? ?Should I be using some kind of different > syntax > for this filter? > > MTIA > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > > 858-259-4334 > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______ ___________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if > any) is intended only for the person or entity to which it is > addressed. The message may contain confidential and/or privileged > material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, > or taking of any action in reliance upon this information, by persons > or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. > > If you have received this in error, please contact the sender and > delete this e-mail and associated material from any computer. > > The intended recipient of this e-mail may only use, reproduce, > disclose or distribute the information contained in this e-mail and > any attached files, with the permission of the sender. > > This message has been scanned for viruses. > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________________ > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 19:51:53 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:51:53 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17D5DE47E46B410D9E49229C7380D910@nant> Rocky -- I used DateSerial just to make it clear what date values are used in my samples. You don't need to use DateSerial(...) I suppose. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:06 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I'm not using Date Serial because the date is already formatted in the text box. Is there a reason to parse it out and then use Date Serial? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- <<>> I should have written that CDate(...) uses MS Windows system locale date format to convert String date representation to its Date value. And doing so it could produce results not expected/intended to be used by a developer as in this case: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 when system locale date format was 'dd/mm/yyyy' and so first result was correct while the second... was correct also ... but didn't conform developer's intention as they got January 4th, 2011 instead of April 1st, 2011... And here system locale date format is also 'dd/mm/yyyy' and both results are "correct": ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 I quoted word correct because both results produce 21-April-2011 which is equal to the source date DateSerial(2011,4,21) but CDate(...) should better(?) produce runtime error for CDate("4/21/2011") on systems with "dd/mm/yyyy" system locale date format... (and on your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' system locale date format you'll get CDate('21/4/2011') - 21-April-2011, which is confusing if you don't know what happens "behind the curtains" On your system with 'mm/dd/yyyy' date format set in the system locale you'll get opposite to my first sample results: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-apr-2011 And in MS Access Query Designer (QBE Grid) dates are presented using system locale date/time format as well as in MS Access form's textboxes if you use "Short Date" format.... Hope that helps. Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: Shamil Salakhetdinov [mailto:shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru] Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 1:58 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru Thu Mar 31 19:51:53 2011 From: shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru (Shamil Salakhetdinov) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2011 04:51:53 +0400 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: <6A91DCB27D504B088721CA90B1438F0F@nant> Rocky -- You don't need DateValue. Are your source textboxes bound to Date type tables' fields? If yes - then just Format( .., "mm/dd/yyyy".) 'quoted' into pair of '#' would be enough. If your source textboxes do have String type values and that values are system locale format dependent then you can use: mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(CDate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(Cate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(DateValue(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or again just mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" all the above will work OK but mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CVDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & DateValue(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" wouldn't be correct as SQL "knows" only American date format and CDate(...), CVDate(....), DateValue(...) will return date formatted using system locale date format... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:03 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: When I create those SQL strings I usually load them into a text box on the form before I execute them so I can see what it looks like and copy it out to a query if I need to run it. Stuart suggest DateValue. Better or worse than Format? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rockysmolin at bchacc.com Thu Mar 31 22:02:09 2011 From: rockysmolin at bchacc.com (Rocky Smolin) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:02:09 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: <6A91DCB27D504B088721CA90B1438F0F@nant> References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> <6A91DCB27D504B088721CA90B1438F0F@nant> Message-ID: <00A125070CFA4A229129B0E700EDA75F@HAL9005> Thank YOU! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 5:52 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- You don't need DateValue. Are your source textboxes bound to Date type tables' fields? If yes - then just Format( .., "mm/dd/yyyy".) 'quoted' into pair of '#' would be enough. If your source textboxes do have String type values and that values are system locale format dependent then you can use: mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(CDate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(Cate(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(DateValue(txtMyDate.Text),"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" or again just mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy") & "#" all the above will work OK but mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & CVDate(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" or mySql = MySql & ..... & "#" & DateValue(Format(txtMyDate.Text,"mm/dd/yyyy")) & "#" wouldn't be correct as SQL "knows" only American date format and CDate(...), CVDate(....), DateValue(...) will return date formatted using system locale date format... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 1 ?????? 2011 ?. 3:03 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: When I create those SQL strings I usually load them into a text box on the form before I execute them so I can see what it looks like and copy it out to a query if I need to run it. Stuart suggest DateValue. Better or worse than Format? Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 2:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Hi Rocky -- <<< IT'S WORKING!!! >>> Great! <<< Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. >>> Do you mean QBE (MS Access Query Designer/Query By Example) grid's criteria values presented in dd/mm/yyyy format while SQL expression string has date values in American mm/dd/yyyy format? I haven't seen your code but from your description using Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy") should be enough, while using CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")) could result in wrong SQL where criteria - CDate(...) is "guessing" (sometimes wrongly) what Date value should be while converting it from its string representation - have a look/try to type in Immediate window: ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 01-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,1), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 04-jan-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "dd/mm/yyyy")),"dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-2011 ?Format(CDate(Format(DateSerial(2011,4,21), "mm/dd/yyyy")), "dd-mmm-yyyy") 21-apr-20111 Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... Thank you. -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 22:50 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Shamil: I think that's what Doug was trying to tell me? Anyway, IT'S WORKING!!! I changed the code to CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "mm/dd/yyyy")). Oddly, the SQL still shows the date as dd/mm/yyyy. Thank you one and all. Rocky -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Shamil Salakhetdinov Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:40 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Rocky -- SQL "knows" American mm/dd/yyyy dates only - your constructed in code SQL expression should be: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #03/31/2011# AND DueDate <= #04/07/2011# -- Shamil -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin Sent: 31 ????? 2011 ?. 21:56 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Dear List: I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records with no date filtering. Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different syntax for this filter? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software 858-259-4334 Skype: rocky.smolin www.e-z-mrp.com www.bchacc.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 23:44:44 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:44:44 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <757F90EAE81B4D8587C1948BA52F0E6D@nant> Message-ID: <69BC808F88F94EE6876E6453545100DF@creativesystemdesigns.com> How does everyone connect to their data on their SQL server? I have never done any other method than by passing parameters and calling the appropriate SP. Does everyone else actually just send sql strings? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 3:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter That is, unless the backend may be SQL Server, in which case, the delimiter is a single quote. We used to run into that issue in .Net, so we built a function to return the date string formatted with the correct delimiter depending on which database was in use. Easy enough to create a function to format any date to US format as well. Charlotte Foust On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:58 PM, Shamil Salakhetdinov wrote: > Hi Rocky -- > Of course date string used in SQL expression in American format should be > enclosed in a pair of '#' symbols - #04/01/2011# .... > -- AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 31 23:54:58 2011 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 21:54:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter In-Reply-To: References: <759994F1FF5140A1B7081212566A9630@HAL9005> <201103312301.p2VN0u1M028069@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <8BF2D525226E4849A29667C757BEDFB9@creativesystemdesigns.com> Actually, our government (federal and provincial) uses yyyymmdd which sorts as a string, a number or as a date without any translation. The other date standard they use is dd Mmm yyyy; ie. 01 May 2011 so there is never any confusion between month and day...and again everything is in sequential order. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter Actually I think it is the Japanese that got it right with YYYYMMDD On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Darryl Collins wrote: > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > Note: This e-mail is subject to the disclaimer contained at the bottom of > this message. > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > > > Hi Rocky, > > To avoid these sort of issues I use dateserial on each and every date I > process in SQL / VBA to make sure they line up correctly. Also from memory > the VBE treats all dates passed in VBA as American format as default, > regardless of the PC's regional setting. Coming from the land of > "dd-mm-yyyy" as standard it is an issue I need to deal with a lot. > > Now, if only you pesky Americans got with the program, used a proper date > format and just swallowed your pride and admit the French were right and > adopt the (far superior) metric system it would make life for the rest of > the planet much easier. ;) > > cheers > Darryl. > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto: > accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > Sent: Friday, 1 April 2011 5:35 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Doug: > > When I change the code to > > "DueDate >= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtGEDueDate, "dd/m/yyyy")) & "#" > > And > > "DueDate <= #" & CDate(Format(Me.txtLEDueDate, "dd/mm/yyyy")) & "#" > > the sql statement still comes out: > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, QuantityDue > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, tblDemand.DueDate, > tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate >= #31/03/2011# AND > DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > And still no date filtering. > > R > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Doug Steele > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 11:21 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Un-American Date Filter > > Hi Rocky: > > I've dealt with this in the past by forcing the date format to mm/dd/yy in > the SQL, something like: > > WHERE DueDate >= Cdate(format(ClientInputDateFrom,"mm/dd/yy"))....etc > > Doug > > On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Rocky Smolin > wrote: > > Dear List: > > > > I create a temp table using a SQL statement I construct in code to > > incorporate various filter - one of which is a date filter. > > > > Works well here but when I send it to the user in Bahrain who's > > regional setting is (I assume from the screen shot he sent) English > > U.K. where the date format is dd/mm/yyyy it fails. I set my regional > > settings on my box to U.K. and sure enough it fails - returns all records > with no date filtering. > > > > Here's the SQL statement that creates the table: > > > > INSERT INTO tblKittingToMIS ( PartNumber, OrderNumber, DueDate, > > QuantityDue > > ) SELECT tblDemand.PartNumber, tblDemand.OrderNumber, > > tblDemand.DueDate, tblDemand.QuantityDue FROM tblDemand WHERE DueDate > > >= #31/03/2011# AND DueDate <= #07/04/2011# > > > > which is supposed to filter out any record in tblDemand where the Due > > Date is outside of the range March 31 to April 7. But it don't. > > > > When I look in tblDemand, the dates are displayed properly as dd/mm/yyyy. > > > > Why doesn't this work? Should I be using some kind of different > > syntax for this filter? > > > > MTIA > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > 858-259-4334 > > > > Skype: rocky.smolin > > > > www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > www.bchacc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___________ > > The information transmitted in this message and its attachments (if any) is > intended > only for the person or entity to which it is addressed. > The message may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 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